Astoundingly cheap commuters

[BT Humble]

I went for a wander through Big W at lunchtime today, as is my wont.
I was quite struck by how much prices of basic commuter-level bicycles
have dropped in just the past 18 months. I doubt it's ever been
cheaper to buy a new MTB-style bike, and you certainly get a
reasonable machine for your money. The one I was particularly looking
at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank
version had alloy rims and V-brakes...

I reckon a penniless uni student could fully equip themselves with
bike & gear for under $200, which is only about 10 weeks' commuting at
Canberra bus ticket prices. Back when I was at uni you couldn't buy a
bottom-of-the-range K-mart MTB for that...

Mind you, If I could wind the clock back 16 years to my uni days, I'd
have sold my car to the wreckers the FIRST time it crapped out on me,
and stuck with a pushie. OK, and maybe a postie bike for the visits
to my parents (160km away). ;-)


BTH

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:06:20 -0700
BT Humble > wrote:
> at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
> disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank

At that price I should buy one to get the brakes!

I ahve been wanting disks for the bent...

Zebee

[BT Humble]

On Jun 1, 7:18 pm, Zebee Johnstone > wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:06:20 -0700
>
> BT Humble > wrote:
> > at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
> > disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank
>
> At that price I should buy one to get the brakes!
>
> I ahve been wanting disks for the bent...
>
> Zebee

You'd have to get your wheels laced onto the hubs, and get some
mounting points brazed on for the calipers, but yeah, it seems cheap
enough.

[Bleve]

On Jun 1, 7:18 pm, Zebee Johnstone > wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:06:20 -0700
>
> BT Humble > wrote:
> > at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
> > disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank
>
> At that price I should buy one to get the brakes!

You will be getting what you paid for. Caveat Emptor.

[Plodder]

"BT Humble" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I went for a wander through Big W at lunchtime today, as is my wont.
> I was quite struck by how much prices of basic commuter-level bicycles
> have dropped in just the past 18 months. I doubt it's ever been
> cheaper to buy a new MTB-style bike, and you certainly get a
> reasonable machine for your money. The one I was particularly looking
> at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
> disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank
> version had alloy rims and V-brakes...
>
> I reckon a penniless uni student could fully equip themselves with
> bike & gear for under $200, which is only about 10 weeks' commuting at
> Canberra bus ticket prices. Back when I was at uni you couldn't buy a
> bottom-of-the-range K-mart MTB for that...
>
> Mind you, If I could wind the clock back 16 years to my uni days, I'd
> have sold my car to the wreckers the FIRST time it crapped out on me,
> and stuck with a pushie. OK, and maybe a postie bike for the visits
> to my parents (160km away). ;-)
>
>
> BTH

Yep. As a bike shop owner I just love these cheapies - My workshop's full of
them :)

me

[BT Humble]

Plodder wrote:
> Yep. As a bike shop owner I just love these cheapies - My workshop's full of
> them :)

Hmm. Perhaps I should refine that to "a penniless uni student who
isn't afraid to get their hands dirty and can find their way to
www.sheldonbrown.com" ...


BTH

[Blue Heeler]

BT Humble wrote:

>
> Mind you, If I could wind the clock back 16 years to my uni days, I'd
> have sold my car to the wreckers the FIRST time it crapped out on me,
> and stuck with a pushie. OK, and maybe a postie bike for the visits
> to my parents (160km away). ;-)
>

If I could turn the clock back 30 years to my first go at Uni, I'd work
harder, smoke less dope, get involved in fewer "causes" and I'd be
retired now.

To bring this back to aus.bicycle.

Just bought a Miyata 312 on eBay for $43. Looks like it needs new
tyres, a re-spoke on the back wheel and a bit of a clean up.

I wanted a steel framed "dunger" to leave on the trainer permanently
and this will fit the bill a treat.


--

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:51:10 -0700
BT Humble > wrote:
>
> You'd have to get your wheels laced onto the hubs, and get some
> mounting points brazed on for the calipers, but yeah, it seems cheap
> enough.

I have a disk hub at the front, and caliper mounts front and rear. As
the rear is already horribly easy to lock up, I'd just need the front.

But then I suppose I can pick up a front disk and brake for $150 if I
look hard enough.

Zebee

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-01, Plodder > wrote:
>
> "BT Humble" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>I went for a wander through Big W at lunchtime today, as is my wont.
>> I was quite struck by how much prices of basic commuter-level bicycles
>> have dropped in just the past 18 months.

>
> Yep. As a bike shop owner I just love these cheapies - My workshop's full of
> them :)
>
> me


My favorite 'design feature' on these bike is the use of mild steel
nipples to lace the rim to a steel hub. You ride them for a year and
then the stainless steel spokes start snapping in the middle.

Joel 'gotta love galvanic action' Mayes

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Resound[_2_]]

My latest purchase was $35 plus $10 for a new gearshift cable. And a small
dob of grease for the front bearings. It did a pretty good job over the 15km
to work the other day too.

"BT Humble" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I went for a wander through Big W at lunchtime today, as is my wont.
> I was quite struck by how much prices of basic commuter-level bicycles
> have dropped in just the past 18 months. I doubt it's ever been
> cheaper to buy a new MTB-style bike, and you certainly get a
> reasonable machine for your money. The one I was particularly looking
> at was $150 for a Front-suspension hardtail with 3-piece cranks and
> disk brakes at both ends. Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank
> version had alloy rims and V-brakes...
>
> I reckon a penniless uni student could fully equip themselves with
> bike & gear for under $200, which is only about 10 weeks' commuting at
> Canberra bus ticket prices. Back when I was at uni you couldn't buy a
> bottom-of-the-range K-mart MTB for that...
>
> Mind you, If I could wind the clock back 16 years to my uni days, I'd
> have sold my car to the wreckers the FIRST time it crapped out on me,
> and stuck with a pushie. OK, and maybe a postie bike for the visits
> to my parents (160km away). ;-)
>
>
> BTH
>
>

[M Bison]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:06:20 -0700, BT Humble wrote:

<snip>

> I reckon a penniless uni student could fully equip themselves with
> bike & gear for under $200, which is only about 10 weeks' commuting at
> Canberra bus ticket prices. Back when I was at uni you couldn't buy a
> bottom-of-the-range K-mart MTB for that...
>

Which makes the bus half the price if the bike only lasts 5 weeks!

[Dave]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:24:04 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> But then I suppose I can pick up a front disk and brake for $150 if I
> look hard enough.

Probably even less, if you stick with cables. For hydro it's a touch more,
but the Shimano Deore offerings are both pretty good, and I've also heard
good things about Avid's cable brakes.

--
Dave Hughes |
"Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly. It just happens to
be very selective about who its friends are" -- Kyle Hearn

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on 02 Jun 2007 00:23:28 GMT
Dave > wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:24:04 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> But then I suppose I can pick up a front disk and brake for $150 if I
>> look hard enough.
>
> Probably even less, if you stick with cables. For hydro it's a touch more,
> but the Shimano Deore offerings are both pretty good, and I've also heard
> good things about Avid's cable brakes.

The avid seems to be what most Bacchettans are going for if they
change to disks, and as that's the make of V brake I have I beleive I
can keep the levers for some versions of disk. Which is a distinct
plus.

All my tuits are a sort of wonky square these days though.

Zebee

[Terryc]

Blue Heeler wrote:

> If I could turn the clock back 30 years to my first go at Uni, I'd work
> harder, smoke less dope, get involved in fewer "causes" and I'd be
> retired now.

Yeh, but what a boring life and career you would have lead.

BTDT.

SWMBO tried breaking a concrete footpath with her noggin in Coolamon
recently and as we sat in Wagga Wagga emergency for hours waiting for
xrays to see if she broken her skull instead, indian doctor is quizzing
old guy in next bed who was brought in after being found unconscious on
floor of nursing home.

There was a major problem in that the indian doctor had obviously learnt
a formal, version of english for educated people, whereas this old bloke
probably only had a basic education and had to keep re-interpreting
every question, e.g siblings -> children, etc, by which time doctor had
moved onto next question. He was obviously getting rather annoyed at the
doctor because when it came to "what job did you do", he repeated "I'm
retired in a louder voice".

Quack clarified and the answer became "Everything", which I recon means
that he probably had a very interesting life out in the country.

Naah, did get to ask how much bicycle riding he had done either.

[Dave]

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:37:43 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> The avid seems to be what most Bacchettans are going for if they
> change to disks, and as that's the make of V brake I have I beleive I
> can keep the levers for some versions of disk. Which is a distinct
> plus.

Cable discs *should* just work with any v-brake compatible lever. It's not
hard to get travel adjusters for use with drop levers or older canti
levers, which pull less cable.

It sounds like a fairly painless upgrade, though it's your call how useful
it'd be.

--
Dave Hughes |
"When all you've got is a nailgun, every problem looks like a messiah."
- Iain Chalmers

[PeteSig[_2_]]

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:

> Dave wrote:

>> I've also heard good things about Avid's cable brakes.
>
> The avid seems to be what most Bacchettans are going for if they
> change to disks, and as that's the make of V brake I have I beleive I
> can keep the levers for some versions of disk.

If you have the Avid V-brakes, i've heard many reports that they are
actually better than virtually any cable disc, and almost as good as
hydraulics. The only real advantage of discs then is their better wet
weather/mud performance and the removal of rim wear. Think about any changes
you make.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

[Dancier[_11_]]

BT Humble Wrote:
> Mind you, even the $78 one-piece-crank version had alloy rims and
> V-brakes...Sounds like the perfect bike for the inner suburbs of Melbourne, if it
stays intact for more than a month then you've got it made. I walked
past one the other day chained to a pole, all that was left was the
frame.


--
Dancier

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 02 Jun 2007 09:30:36 GMT
PeteSig > wrote:
>
> If you have the Avid V-brakes, i've heard many reports that they are
> actually better than virtually any cable disc, and almost as good as
> hydraulics. The only real advantage of discs then is their better wet
> weather/mud performance and the removal of rim wear. Think about any changes
> you make.

It's the wet weather performance that interests me. As I ride all
year round, and in traffic, and down a few hills, good braking in the
wet is important, if we have any wet... The couple of times I have, I
have noticed a distinct lack of slowing down from the current setup.

I only need it for the front as the rear locks up easily wet or dry.

Zebee

[PeteSig[_2_]]

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:

> It's the wet weather performance that interests me. As I ride all
> year round, and in traffic, and down a few hills, good braking in the
> wet is important, if we have any wet... The couple of times I have, I
> have noticed a distinct lack of slowing down from the current setup.
>
> I only need it for the front as the rear locks up easily wet or dry.

OK, that makes sense.

Does your bike have alloy rims? I'd assume so, but steel rims are
notoriously bad in the wet, so if they were steel the better upgrade would
be to get alloy rims.

Incidentally, does your recumbent have a smaller front wheel (eg 20") I'm
not sure about the physics of it but I do believe discs should be more
effective on a small wheel than a 26" as they are proportionally bigger
compared to the rim. Thus greater braking leverage. Someone here will tell
me if I'm wrong or not.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:25:23 GMT
PeteSig > wrote:
>
> Does your bike have alloy rims? I'd assume so, but steel rims are
> notoriously bad in the wet, so if they were steel the better upgrade would
> be to get alloy rims.

Yes, alloy.

>
> Incidentally, does your recumbent have a smaller front wheel (eg 20") I'm
> not sure about the physics of it but I do believe discs should be more
> effective on a small wheel than a 26" as they are proportionally bigger
> compared to the rim. Thus greater braking leverage. Someone here will tell
> me if I'm wrong or not.

It's a 20" front. No idea about the physics but it does seem
intuitively likely.

IT is one of those roundtuit things really. plenty of mail order disk
brakes about, jsut have to find the energy.

Zebee

[Plodder]

"Dave" > wrote in message
u...
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:24:04 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> But then I suppose I can pick up a front disk and brake for $150 if I
>> look hard enough.
>
> Probably even less, if you stick with cables. For hydro it's a touch more,
> but the Shimano Deore offerings are both pretty good, and I've also heard
> good things about Avid's cable brakes.
>
> --
> Dave Hughes |
> "Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly. It just happens to
> be very selective about who its friends are" -- Kyle Hearn

Good point about the hydros. I got so fed up of my Hayes hydros playing up I
changed them to Avid BB7s. Bloody good move IMO. Far less trouble and they
feel much better - more modulation.

Me

[TimC]

On 2007-06-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:25:23 GMT
> PeteSig > wrote:
>> Incidentally, does your recumbent have a smaller front wheel (eg 20") I'm
>> not sure about the physics of it but I do believe discs should be more
>> effective on a small wheel than a 26" as they are proportionally bigger
>> compared to the rim. Thus greater braking leverage. Someone here will tell
>> me if I'm wrong or not.
>
> It's a 20" front. No idea about the physics but it does seem
> intuitively likely.

Torque is decreased at the hub because of the smaller radius, but
that's irrelevant because that torque has to be converted back to a
linear force at the bottom of the wheel. Think of the brake as being
some kind of linear brake that is sitting some distance off the
ground. It makes no difference if it is 20" or 26" off the ground,
the same lateral force is being applied.

I think.

--
TimC
My cats are forbidden from walking on my computer keyboard on the desk
when I'm asdfjjhhkl;ljfd.;oier' puyykmm4hbdm9lo9j USING IT. --unknown

[TimC]

On 2007-06-03, TimC (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On 2007-06-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 02 Jun 2007 13:25:23 GMT
>> PeteSig > wrote:
>>> Incidentally, does your recumbent have a smaller front wheel (eg 20") I'm
>>> not sure about the physics of it but I do believe discs should be more
>>> effective on a small wheel than a 26" as they are proportionally bigger
>>> compared to the rim. Thus greater braking leverage. Someone here will tell
>>> me if I'm wrong or not.
>>
>> It's a 20" front. No idea about the physics but it does seem
>> intuitively likely.

Whoops, forgot to look at the disk brake situation. Anyway, rim
brakes:

> Torque is decreased at the hub because of the smaller radius, but
> that's irrelevant because that torque has to be converted back to a
> linear force at the bottom of the wheel. Think of the brake as being
> some kind of linear brake that is sitting some distance off the
> ground. It makes no difference if it is 20" or 26" off the ground,
> the same lateral force is being applied.
>
> I think.

So no change for small vs large.

And disk brakes:

For a given force on the disks, you get a given torque. Torque is
force multiplied by radius, so the linear force is going to increase
because of the smaller radius.

Damn, your intuition is better than mine. I blame the lack of coffee.
Damn weekends, I don't get to drink coffee for 2 days in a row.

--
TimC
Just keep in mind that when you are using TRANSFER, you are not
programming, but hacking. All else follows logically from this
premise, Grasshopper. -- James Van Buskirk in comp.lang.fortran

[PeteSig[_2_]]

"TimC" wrote:
>
> Torque is decreased at the hub because of the smaller radius, but
> that's irrelevant because that torque has to be converted back to a
> linear force at the bottom of the wheel. Think of the brake as being
> some kind of linear brake that is sitting some distance off the
> ground. It makes no difference if it is 20" or 26" off the ground,
> the same lateral force is being applied.
>
> I think.

Surely the torque from a wheel radius of 13" acting against a 3" radius disc
is going to be a lot greater than that from a 10" radius wheel acting agaist
the same 3" radius disc?? Hence the braking power of the disc on the smaller
wheel is greater.

Caveat: I am no engineer nor mathematician

Cheers
Pete

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:21:48 +1000
TimC > wrote:
>
> For a given force on the disks, you get a given torque. Torque is
> force multiplied by radius, so the linear force is going to increase
> because of the smaller radius.
>
> Damn, your intuition is better than mine. I blame the lack of coffee.
> Damn weekends, I don't get to drink coffee for 2 days in a row.

I just figured that swept area of disk as a proportion of size of
wheel was greater for the smaller wheel.

Zebee

[BT Humble]

M Bison wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:06:20 -0700,BTHumble wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I reckon a penniless uni student could fully equip themselves with
> > bike & gear for under $200, which is only about 10 weeks' commuting at
> > Canberra bus ticket prices. Back when I was at uni you couldn't buy a
> > bottom-of-the-range K-mart MTB for that...
>
> Which makes the bus half the price if the bike only lasts 5 weeks!

Oh ye of little faith!


BTH