Brazen on is stuffed :(

[just us]

Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what can
I do now?
Any ideas?
Thanks Kathy

[Friday]

just us wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
> that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
> it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what can
> I do now?
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Kathy
>
>

A braze on what?
Can you tap it out with a bigger thread?
Or maybe helicoil it.

Friday

[Donga]

On Jun 13, 5:28 pm, "just us" > wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
> that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
> it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what can
> I do now?
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Kathy

Do you mean a threaded tab brazed onto a stay? Or a threaded hole in
the stay? If the former, you could drill out the shagged thread and
use a high-tensile bolt with nylock nut. If the latter, drop into an
auto mechanic or machine shop and ask if they can rethread it somehow
(there is some helical insert they can use, can't remember what they
are called). A quick google on 're-thread' will give you lots of
research.

Donga

[John Henderson]

just us wrote:

> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome
> a braze on that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I
> can do with it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip
> with panniers and what can I do now?
> Any ideas?

You certainly need to get a second opinion. It's a rare bike
shop these days that builds frames and would have the expertise
to give you good advice. Is there a machine shop in your area
(maybe a Yellow Pages phone call - something like "Engineers -
precision" or "Engineers - manufacturing")?

Is the stripped metal steel or aluminium?

If it's actually brazed, that suggests a steel fitting on a
steel bike frame. In which case a new fitting might be able to
be attached - perhaps with silver solder if the metal's too
thin for more brazing.

Is there plenty of metal remaining around the hole so that it
could be drilled out a little and a larger thread cut?

Does the hole go right through so that a longer bolt with a nut
can be used?

John

[just us]

My bike is a
http://www2.trekbikes.com.au/catalogue.cgi?rm=product&product_id=23&category_id=7&subcategory_id=50
and I love it.
I live on Atherton Tablelands, bought the bike from a Cairns dealer and it
is a real pain having to run up and down the range (100kms) to get advice
from LBS. I was told definitely NOT to drill a hole through the frame. So I
just wait to see what advice I might get via here. In the past the advice
given here has been spot on :)

Kathy

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-13, just us > wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
> that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
> it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what can
> I do now?
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Kathy

Is the broken braze-on for attaching the rack???

If it's the rack attachment on the dropouts put a bolt through with a
nut on the other side (be careful that the nut doesn't foul the gears
and chain)

or if it's the seat stay rack attachment get a P-clip from a hardware
store to attach the rack.

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Donga]

On Jun 13, 6:52 pm, "just us" > wrote:
> My bike is ahttp://www2.trekbikes.com.au/catalogue.cgi?rm=product&product_id=23&c...
> and I love it.
> I live on Atherton Tablelands, bought the bike from a Cairns dealer and it
> is a real pain having to run up and down the range (100kms) to get advice
> from LBS. I was told definitely NOT to drill a hole through the frame. So I
> just wait to see what advice I might get via here. In the past the advice
> given here has been spot on :)
>
> Kathy

There would be a fair bit of expertise with aluminium up on the
Tableland, but maybe not with such fine work, great if you want to fix
a truck. What about the aircraft museum? Also, there's a frame builder
in Cairns - northern beaches somewhere - don't know if he works in
aluminium - Curloo?

[John Henderson]

just us wrote:

> My bike is a
>
http://www2.trekbikes.com.au/catalogue.cgi?rm=product&product_id=23&category_id=7&subcategory_id=50
> and I love it.

I can understand that. That aluminium frame limits your options
a bit.

> I live on Atherton Tablelands, bought the bike from a Cairns
> dealer and it is a real pain having to run up and down the
> range (100kms) to get advice from LBS. I was told definitely
> NOT to drill a hole through the frame. So I just wait to see
> what advice I might get via here. In the past the advice given
> here has been spot on :)

Where is the fitting? Front or rear? Have you got a digital
camera so you can put a photo of the damaged area up on the
likes of tinypic.com and give us the exact URL?

John

[John Henderson]

just us wrote:

> I was told definitely NOT to drill a hole through the frame.

Is this an upper rack mounting on the rear perhaps (up near the
brake)? If so, it's not a load-bearing point for the pannier
rack. It's more for stability. And that would mean that you
could use a flat clamp around the tube (with the aluminium
protected from the clamp by a piece of garden hose for example)
to secure the rack at the top. You might need to use the same
arrangement on both sides.

John

[Halcyon]

just us wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
> that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
> it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what can
> I do now?
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Kathy
>
>
Hi Kathy,
You need to help us here. As has been said above, some digital pics and
a good description would be invaluable.
In my life as a farmer I am yet to find something that cannot be fixed -
many times the fix is far removed from what a professional would do and
sometimes better. Lateral thinking is commonplace.
Halcyon

[just us]

It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I noticed
after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure of
any technical terms) was just free turning .
http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen out
completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS told
me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
Thanks for any advice
Kathy

[Friday]

just us wrote:
> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I noticed
> after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure of
> any technical terms) was just free turning .
> http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen out
> completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS told
> me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
> distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> Thanks for any advice
> Kathy
>
>

Can you measure the outside diameter of the thread and let us know?
If it's 4 or 5 mm you could go up to 6 mm, (re-tap the thread.) It's a
bit hard to tell the size from the pic.

Friday

[Blue Heeler]

just us wrote:

Kathy

If it is just that the thread has pulled out, a thing called a
"helicoil" is the way to go.

Any competent garage or workshop will have them in stock and should be
able to fit one in minutes.




--

[gravelmuncher[_60_]]

If things get vague, and you're not sure of what you're doing - send the
frame to John at Gripsport. They are genuine bicycle engineers and they
certainly know their sh1t. I have had them work on two of my frames and
can't praise them enough.

'http://www.gripsport.com.au/' (www.gripsport.com.au)

gm


--
gravelmuncher

[Owen]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 20:36:49 +1000
"just us" > wrote:

> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I noticed
> after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure of
> any technical terms) was just free turning .
> http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen out
> completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS told
> me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
> distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> Thanks for any advice
> Kathy



I would get small bolt and nut (say 3/32) and bolt it into a metal hose clamp.

Then cut the bolt length so that it would fit into the brazon hole as a pin.

Then do up the hose clamp real tight.

Should get you out of trouble. See this sketch

http://members.pcug.org.au/~rcook/images/hose_clamp_solution.jpg


Owen

[mikeg[_7_]]

just us Wrote:
> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I
> noticed
> after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure
> of
> any technical terms) was just free turning .
> http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen
> out
> completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS
> told
> me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
> distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike -
> it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> Thanks for any advice
> Kathy


Kathy,

Was it just the allen screw that has now fallen out, or the screw and
insert (brazeon) that has fallen out?

It may be a type of rivet nut threaded insert that are sometimes used
for bottle cages mounts. These are installed with a special tool, which
compresses the nut to the inside wall of the tube (similar to how a pop
rivet works).

A competent bike shop should be able to replace it with a rivet nut
threaded insert. (There are types made with different materials such as
different steels and grades of aluminium for different applications)

If the original is a rivet nut, and the thread is still good, it may be
able to be re-fixed in place, otherwise if inside of the seat stays are
open to the seat tube, with care it could be removed from the seat
stay. If not, then I would still think that replacement could be
fitted, but the internal portion may be left loose inside the seat
stay.

This info is based on my limited infrequent experience of these.

If all else fails and it cannot be repaired/replaced, which is very
unlikely, then don't Trek have a lifetime frame warranty, or, it is
less than 12 months old isn't it? then hit them up for a replacement
frame at Trek's total expense.

for illustration purposes see here:

http://www.aerobolt.com.au/Products/Inserts/Inserts.shtml

Hope this helps you out!

Mike G


--
mikeg

[PeteSig[_2_]]

"just us" wrote:

> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I noticed
> after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure of
> any technical terms) was just free turning .
> http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen out
> completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS told
> me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
> distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(

These days with aluminium frames the 'braze-ons' are of course not brazed,
and often are a thing called a riv-nut - a special sort of pop rivet (bit of
metal press fitted into the frame with a thread in it) These should be able
to be removed and refitted I would have thought, or maybe the aluminium is
too soft and would be damaged in the removal process. I'm no expert, but do
know, from experience, that riv-nuts are plenty strong enough to carry heavy
loads over rough terrain.

Talk to any skilled frame builder about it, the people at gripsport should
be very knowledgable and your best source of advice.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

[John Henderson]

just us wrote:

> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear
> rack. I noticed after about 600kms of my ride that the allen
> screw (sorry I am not sure of any technical terms) was just
> free turning . http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about
> 800kms it had fallen out completely so I put a cable tie
> around it and it got me home. The LBS told me that because it
> was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find distressing
> as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> Thanks for any advice Kathy

That top carrier mounting doesn't have any significant load on
it. So a couple of suitable clamps around the stays would do.

I'd try to get plastic coated ones, or use plastic tape or some
thin hose so that the steel clamps don't end up putting a
stress fracture in the aluminium (steel is harder than
aluminium).

You might be able to get something suitable at a hardware shop
if the LBS can't help you out.

A kit with clamps designed for the job is shown here (a UK
shop): http://tinyurl.com/yrd9ww

John

[Glen F]

You been ridin the Cape on that, Kath?

If all else fails, it might be worth investing in a
stronger rack, which can attach to the brake posts,
eg: http://www.oldmanmountain.com/red_gallery.htm

Mine came by mail from Cheeky Monkey in Sydney.
http://www.cheekytransport.com.au/ Not cheap.

G.

[Donga]

Another work-around is to put an extra seat-post clamp around the base
of the seatpost, and run a steel strap from it, down to the front of
the rack. Takes a bit of jiggery-pokery, but effective.

Donga

[just us]

That looks scarey Glen. Maybe I do need a stronger rack, but the rack didnt
break the thingo - where you screw it into did. Thanks all for your advice,
I rekon I am going to try to hit Trek up as the bike is guaranteed as is the
frame.
I have not done the Cape but maybe next year! Actually next year 5 of us are
going to do a ride into the Gulf, taking camp gear and fishing rods, catch
heaps of fish along the Mitchell and generally have a great 10 days :)
Meanwhile next month I am going on a 23 day hike to the Tip of Cape York -
without the bike :)
My bike has done the corrugations out past Chillagoe, south of Mt Garnet
into the east area and also west of Mareeba. It handles the rough dirt
tracks really well with panniers, seeems better than without a load somehow?
I am going back to Cairns on Saturday and will take the bike back again
................
Kathy

[Glen F]

You're doin it again with the envy thing...

Old Man racks are the strongest I've seen, and that
model is their best. My bike's an old dually, so
no top attachment - anyway, brake posts are way
stronger than rack mounts on most bikes. Still, as
several said, there isn't all that much load on the
top mounts anyway - even with full panniers on a
rough track. Definitely shouldn't break, not on a
name-brand hybrid tourer. They should replace the
frame if they really can't fix it.

Have fun on that big long beach, and mind those
snappy things. Grrr...

G.

[SteveA[_40_]]

John Henderson Wrote:
> just us wrote:
>
> > It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear
> > rack. I noticed after about 600kms of my ride that the allen
> > screw (sorry I am not sure of any technical terms) was just
> > free turning . http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about
> > 800kms it had fallen out completely so I put a cable tie
> > around it and it got me home. The LBS told me that because it
> > was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find distressing
> > as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> > fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> > Thanks for any advice Kathy
>
> That top carrier mounting doesn't have any significant load on
> it. So a couple of suitable clamps around the stays would do.
>
> I'd try to get plastic coated ones, or use plastic tape or some
> thin hose so that the steel clamps don't end up putting a
> stress fracture in the aluminium (steel is harder than
> aluminium).
>
> You might be able to get something suitable at a hardware shop
> if the LBS can't help you out.
>
> A kit with clamps designed for the job is shown here (a UK
> shop): http://tinyurl.com/yrd9ww
>
> John
I could not get P clips from the bike shop that were big enough to go
around the seat stays on my daughter's Norco. I used some clips I got
from Bunnings that are usually used for fixing black home irrigation
pipe to fences, rafters etc. From memory it was for fixing 3/4 inch
pipe and came in a bag of about a dozen for a few dollars.

StevA


--
SteveA

[John Henderson]

just us wrote:

> That looks scarey Glen. Maybe I do need a stronger rack, but
> the rack didnt break the thingo - where you screw it into did.
> Thanks all for your advice, I rekon I am going to try to hit
> Trek up as the bike is guaranteed as is the frame.

Who fitted the rack? Be prepared for the manufacturer to claim
that the thread was stripped by the bolt being either
cross-threaded or overtightened.

John

[DaveH]

Never mind the minor problems Kathy. . . . When do we get the proper trip
report ??

It must be almost time you made the ride south with your backpack to
tour/tramp our gods own tassie . . .

Dave H


"just us" > wrote in message
...
> Just wondering if anyone has some ideas on how I can overcome a braze on
> that unfortuneately the thread has stipped :(
> I went to LBS and was told that basically there was nothing I can do with
> it. Bike is only 6 mths old, has done a long trip with panniers and what
> can I do now?
> Any ideas?
> Thanks Kathy
>

[just us]

We did go to Tassie for a look last year in February. It was FREEZING! We
did a lot of day walks, climbed a few good mountains and froze the whole
time LOL. The end of each day saw us wrapped up in blankets in the Cramper
Van we hired. Tassie is a beautiful place but we would have to go down there
for at least 6 mths to see it all. We thought about doing a guided extended
walk down there so that at night we could be in a hut somewhere drinking
pina coladas or something but then we would still be cold wouldnt we?
Up here I can go for a weeks walk with only one set of clothes for the day
and night wear (maybe thermals in winter but only if you are not heading
north). I cant imagine doing extended walks freezing ya butt off and
carrying food/shelter/and 10 changes of clothes. LOL
There are a lot of people up here that have never done any local walking but
once a year they pay big $$ to go and do a southern walk. They say it is
because they dont like to sweat -
Kathy

[DaveH]

Before I forget. . . just "tap" out the carrier mount to the next size,
should be fine, you can alays go to P_Clamps if that does not work, Being
slack I would probably just force in a bigger screw, but that may not be
good advice if you are home from the trail, a tapped thread would be better
and more reliable. A bit of PTFE tape around the thread would be another
"quick fix" method which sometimes helps.

CAMPERVAN! there is plenty of good cycling down here, although time is
always a problem. I was hiking up at cradle last week-end in shorts. . .
light snow flurries only. . but I do have a good down bag for nights. . .

One set of clothes sounds fine to me and has lasted me for over a month at
times, although I may have washed the sox etc a couple of times. . . .

Have a great trip, chair or no (whoops wrong thread)

Cheers,

Dave H



"just us" > wrote in message
...
> We did go to Tassie for a look last year in February. It was FREEZING! We
> did a lot of day walks, climbed a few good mountains and froze the whole
> time LOL. The end of each day saw us wrapped up in blankets in the Cramper
> Van we hired. Tassie is a beautiful place but we would have to go down
> there for at least 6 mths to see it all. We thought about doing a guided
> extended walk down there so that at night we could be in a hut somewhere
> drinking pina coladas or something but then we would still be cold wouldnt
> we?
> Up here I can go for a weeks walk with only one set of clothes for the day
> and night wear (maybe thermals in winter but only if you are not heading
> north). I cant imagine doing extended walks freezing ya butt off and
> carrying food/shelter/and 10 changes of clothes. LOL
> There are a lot of people up here that have never done any local walking
> but once a year they pay big $$ to go and do a southern walk. They say it
> is because they dont like to sweat -
> Kathy
>
>

[NickP]

Bend a bit of stainless steel strap into a loop that fits around the frame
tube and has a hole drilled through each end so you can use a 5mm bolt/nut
to hold the rack mount in place. Use a bit of old inner tube between the
frame tube and SS strap to protect the frame and help hold things in place.
You can see the sort of thing I mean supporting the bottom of a small rack
at http://www.rivbike.com/images/catpics/20-108.jpg.

"just us" > wrote in message
...
> It is under the seat, on one of the brazeons for the rear rack. I noticed
> after about 600kms of my ride that the allen screw (sorry I am not sure of
> any technical terms) was just free turning .
> http://i15.tinypic.com/5xq52c4.jpg AFter about 800kms it had fallen out
> completely so I put a cable tie around it and it got me home. The LBS told
> me that because it was Aluminium it could not be fixed which I find
> distressing as I want to do many more kms with panniers on this bike - it
> fits me well and I have had no other problems with it :(
> Thanks for any advice
> Kathy
>