Puma urban mobility

[gumby]

http://www.puma-kutani.com/

schwing
looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
any translators?

[byron27[_60_]]

gumby Wrote:
> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>
> schwing
> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
> any translators?
Saw this in Germany last year. Version i saw in the Berlin Puma shop
was white. Very nice looking.


--
byron27

[Harng Goh]

On Jun 15, 12:05 pm, gumby > wrote:
> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>
> schwing
> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
> any translators?

http://www.slingshotbikes.com/

The concept has been around for a little while. It looks very
interesting but I'm yet to see one here in the flesh. You would want
to be 110% certain that cable won't give way.

*me picturing the MTB frame imploding as I'm descending a nice hill
around Kinglake*

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-15, gumby > wrote:
> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>
> schwing
> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
> any translators?

I don't understand why they put disc brakes on a bike like this, it just
ends up costing the buyer more money/hassle when things inevitably wear
out.

Other then that looks fun :-)

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Resound[_2_]]

"Joel Mayes" > wrote in message
ldomain...
> On 2007-06-15, gumby > wrote:
>> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>>
>> schwing
>> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
>> any translators?
>
> I don't understand why they put disc brakes on a bike like this, it just
> ends up costing the buyer more money/hassle when things inevitably wear
> out.
>
> Other then that looks fun :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Joel
>
How does discs wearing out differ from rims wearing out? Other than the fact
that replacing disc doesn't require re-lacing a rim?

[John Stevenson]

Joel Mayes wrote:
> On 2007-06-15, gumby > wrote:
>> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>>
>> schwing
>> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
>> any translators?
>
> I don't understand why they put disc brakes on a bike like this, it just
> ends up costing the buyer more money/hassle when things inevitably wear
> out.

Those look like Shimano cable discs to me. That wipes the only serious
objection I can think of to most discs, the complication of dealing with
a hydraulic system.

When the pads wear out, they're easier to replace than rim brake pads.
Almost all designs of rim brake require the user to adjust the pads to
hit the rim squarely. Discs don't, after initial installation of the
brake caliper itself.

If you have to remove and refit the wheels for any reason you don't have
to open and close the brakes, so there's no risk of the user riding away
with open brakes and not finding out till he/she needs them.

They're less affected by wet weather than rim brakes.

The rims don't wear, so there's no chance of them becoming so thin they
burst from tyre pressure.

If the rims get knocked out of true or round by accident or careless
riding, the brakes will still work.

Disc brakes make a huge amount of sense for urban bikes.

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-16, Resound > wrote:
>
> "Joel Mayes" > wrote in message
> ldomain...
>> On 2007-06-15, gumby > wrote:
>>> http://www.puma-kutani.com/
>>>
>>> schwing
>>> looks heavy though, and I cant read nor understand Japanese.
>>> any translators?
>>
>> I don't understand why they put disc brakes on a bike like this, it just
>> ends up costing the buyer more money/hassle when things inevitably wear
>> out.
>>
>> Other then that looks fun :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Joel
>>
> How does discs wearing out differ from rims wearing out? Other than the fact
> that replacing disc doesn't require re-lacing a rim?

Disc pads are *much* more expensive then standard pads ($50 a pair vs.
$16 a pair), and bike stores charge a lot more to fit them. Service
charges for disc brakes are also high in most bicycle stores.

For the type of riding this bike is designed for I'd expect rims and
discs to last a *long long* time. The expense is in the consumables and
the initial cost of the components.

Cheers

Joel

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-16, Joel Mayes > wrote:
> On 2007-06-16, Resound > wrote:

>> How does discs wearing out differ from rims wearing out? Other than the fact
>> that replacing disc doesn't require re-lacing a rim?
>
> Disc pads are *much* more expensive then standard pads ($50 a pair vs.
> $16 a pair), and bike stores charge a lot more to fit them. Service
> charges for disc brakes are also high in most bicycle stores.

I should add the many disc pads wear out faster then rim padd too...

--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Dave]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:09:49 +0000, Joel Mayes wrote:


> Disc pads are *much* more expensive then standard pads ($50 a pair vs.
> $16 a pair), and bike stores charge a lot more to fit them. Service
> charges for disc brakes are also high in most bicycle stores.

Shimano Deore cable brakes (I assume they're the model, since John said
Shimano cables) are not $50/set to replace pads. Around half that, or less
for some 3rd party pads.In my experience they last a lot longer than
V-brake pads, even excluding the fact that they *work* when conditions are
crap.

Service charges for bleeding brakes are high. If you're being charged for
replacing pads at all other than as part of a routine service I'd be
surprised. It's a 2 minute job, if not less, and requires only a 4mm
allen key. Cable discs are trivial to work on for almost all tasks (if the
internals die then it's a PITA, but that's about as common as the
internals of a V-brake dying).

> For the type of riding this bike is designed for I'd expect rims and
> discs to last a *long long* time.

Rims may not due to potholes, gutters, etc. I've got several rims that are
fine for disc brake use but would be unusable on rim brakes to to small
dings, etc. Yes, they're probably weaker than a brand new rim, but they're
still more than strong enough to last me, particularly as a commute rim.

Bleve, I know you've worn out rims - roughly how many km did it take you?

--
Dave Hughes |
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father.
Prepare to die.

[TimC]

On 2007-06-16, Dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:09:49 +0000, Joel Mayes wrote:
>> For the type of riding this bike is designed for I'd expect rims and
>> discs to last a *long long* time.
>
> Rims may not due to potholes, gutters, etc. I've got several rims that are
> fine for disc brake use but would be unusable on rim brakes to to small
> dings, etc. Yes, they're probably weaker than a brand new rim, but they're
> still more than strong enough to last me, particularly as a commute rim.
>
> Bleve, I know you've worn out rims - roughly how many km did it take you?

Only 15,000km on mine, and they look like needing urgent replacement.

--
TimC
Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of someone else.
-- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[Joel Mayes]

On 2007-06-16, Dave > wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:09:49 +0000, Joel Mayes wrote:
>
>
>> Disc pads are *much* more expensive then standard pads ($50 a pair vs.
>> $16 a pair), and bike stores charge a lot more to fit them. Service
>> charges for disc brakes are also high in most bicycle stores.
>
> Shimano Deore cable brakes (I assume they're the model, since John said
> Shimano cables) are not $50/set to replace pads. Around half that, or less
> for some 3rd party pads.

Shimano Deore pads are around $29.95 a set so ~$60 to replace front and
rear and they are among the cheaper disc brakes pads. Even using the
most expensive canti pads I can find, replacing F+R canti pads is under
$40

> In my experience they last a lot longer than V-brake pads, even
> excluding the fact that they *work* when conditions are crap.

It's my experience that with alloy rims any good quality brake, even old
style single pull calipers, when properly setup can lock the front wheel in
wet conditions. Sure it takes more hand pressure with older calipers but
it is still doable.

> Service charges for bleeding brakes are high. If you're being charged for
> replacing pads at all other than as part of a routine service I'd be
> surprised. It's a 2 minute job, if not less, and requires only a 4mm
> allen key. Cable discs are trivial to work on for almost all tasks (if the
> internals die then it's a PITA, but that's about as common as the
> internals of a V-brake dying).

What Internals? Most V-brakes/cantis consist of a two springs, two arms,
and a couple of bolts. I've seen the springs brake but only on cheapo
K-mart bikes or when the bike is abused.

Excluding crash damage or abuse, most of the decent quality broken
V-brakes I've seen have Shimano's parallel-push linkage which is a
faulty design and solution looking for a problem.

And the only descent quality canti's I've seen brake have simply worn
the bushings enough they vibrate on the boss and squeal. Still brake
fine you just can't stop them making noise.


>> For the type of riding this bike is designed for I'd expect rims and
>> discs to last a *long long* time.
>
> Rims may not due to potholes, gutters, etc. I've got several rims that are
> fine for disc brake use but would be unusable on rim brakes to to small
> dings, etc. Yes, they're probably weaker than a brand new rim, but they're
> still more than strong enough to last me, particularly as a commute rim.

I could point out the same for rotors getting banged up on gutters,
sign posts, bent when people lock there bike up against yours. ect.
ect.ect.

Also any competent bicycle mechanic should be able to repair minor dings
on the braking service of a rim.

> Bleve, I know you've worn out rims - roughly how many km did it take you?

I just replaced the rims on my partner's touring bike, after 15 years of
daily comutes, in all weather, on top of three or four longish heavily
loaded tours each year they're starting to show a little wear. Probably
could have got another 5 years out of them but I got a good deal on some
Velocity Dyad rims and it was time for a gift.

We may have to agree to dis-agree here

Cheers

Joel


--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
| Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

[Resound[_2_]]

"TimC" > wrote in message
...
> On 2007-06-16, Dave (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:09:49 +0000, Joel Mayes wrote:
>>> For the type of riding this bike is designed for I'd expect rims and
>>> discs to last a *long long* time.
>>
>> Rims may not due to potholes, gutters, etc. I've got several rims that
>> are
>> fine for disc brake use but would be unusable on rim brakes to to small
>> dings, etc. Yes, they're probably weaker than a brand new rim, but
>> they're
>> still more than strong enough to last me, particularly as a commute rim.
>>
>> Bleve, I know you've worn out rims - roughly how many km did it take you?
>
> Only 15,000km on mine, and they look like needing urgent replacement.
>
I chewed out my front in about 10,000km

[SteveA[_41_]]

byron27 Wrote:
> Saw this in Germany last year. Version i saw in the Berlin Puma shop was
> white. Very nice looking.
Its a Biomega Boston:
http://www.biomega.dk/biomega.aspx

Saab Australia is about to start flogging a Biomega like that (not sure
if it is exactly the same) with Saab badging.

A Saab parts supplier in the UK has something like it (back hub brake,
instead of disk + ....?? ) for A$1,530 plus shipping:
http://www.elkparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/3347


SteveA


--
SteveA