tired of getting flats

[catzz66]

We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the
road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.

I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
stuff.

I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his
spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet
paper for me.

[Brian Huntley]

On Jun 28, 12:22 pm, catzz66 > wrote:
> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
> am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
> Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
> stuff.

I had no luck with Armadillos in urban conditions, myself. I now use
Schwalb Marathon Plus tires - I've had tire-wire flats and one sheet
metal screw flat, but not a single normal urban (glass, tacks, etc)
flat for 18 months. (Knock wood.)

[landotter]

On Jun 28, 12:09 pm, Brian Huntley > wrote:
> On Jun 28, 12:22 pm, catzz66 > wrote:
>
> > I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
> > am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
> > Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
> > stuff.
>
> I had no luck with Armadillos in urban conditions, myself. I now use
> Schwalb Marathon Plus tires - I've had tire-wire flats and one sheet
> metal screw flat, but not a single normal urban (glass, tacks, etc)
> flat for 18 months. (Knock wood.)

I've ridden what I consider to be the cheap alternative to Marathons
the past six months, the IRC Tandem. ~2K miles on that bike. No flats,
and it gets used for everything from urban exploring to fire roads.
Nada. The all rounder bike before that had some WTB tires which
flatted at least weekly. Shame the Tandems won't fit in most stupidly
tight road bike clearances. They're pretty light at ~350g, supple, and
the slightly annoying tread will be forgiven the first time you take
them off road.

I'm pretty certain that rain flats are caused by two things, this
after getting a rash of them last year on my skinny tire bike, rain
making glass shards stand up on the roadway, and the water acting as
lubricant. The only totally reliable solution seems to be tread
thickness, thus my love affair with the very utilitarian IRC tires.
The gatorskins and armadillos don't appeal to me at all, as they're
quite heavy for their size, with limited volume and stiff sidewalls,
the worst of all worlds.

[gds]

On Jun 28, 9:22 am, catzz66 > wrote:
> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
> have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the
> road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>
> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
> am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
> Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
> stuff.
>
> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
> up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his
> spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet
> paper for me.

My solution, being the victim of many, many flats have never found
tires that really prevent them. I've gone another route. I simply got
proficient at changing tubes. I can change a front out in ~ 3 minutes
and a rear in ~5. I also buy tubes in bulk at a big discount and just
live with the flats.

[Hell and High Water]

In article >, catzz66
@threeletterservice.com says...
> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
> have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the
> road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.

I was having a similar problem a couple years ago. Tried slime, but
found that pretty much sucked.


Now I have the following combo:


1. Michelin Carbon tires
2. Tuffy strips
3. Performance 'thorn-proof' tubes

Not at all light, but I guess I'll just give that up for the lack of
flats.



My $00.02


-Bob

[catzz66]

gds wrote:
>
> My solution, being the victim of many, many flats have never found
> tires that really prevent them. I've gone another route. I simply got
> proficient at changing tubes. I can change a front out in ~ 3 minutes
> and a rear in ~5. I also buy tubes in bulk at a big discount and just
> live with the flats.
>

That's going to have to be my Plan B. It is not too much fun fixing
flats in this slop, but I am going to have to bite the bullet and start
doing it. I am used to being able to have my floor pump and tools handy
and have room to spread out.

Part of the problem has probably been the compound used in the Mondos.
When it was pretty dry around here (last several years) it was fine, but
with more rainy weather they get cut and gouged up. I am looking for a
little bit tougher exterior compound. Maybe that will cut down on some
of the punctures. It was time to change anyway. I got 2100 and 2400
miles out of the OEM tires, so I can't complain that much.

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:22:13 -0500, catzz66 wrote:

> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
> up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his
> spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet
> paper for me.

I haven't tried them, but you can get thick plastic strips which sit
between your tyre and tube. They look as though they'd stop almost
anything getting through, although they'd slow you down a bit.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[Patrick Lamb]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:22:13 -0500, catzz66
> wrote:
>We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
>have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the
>road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.

Send us some of that rain! Please??
>
>I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
>am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
>Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
>stuff.
>
>I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
>up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his
>spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet
>paper for me.

You got me to thinking. I don't like flats, either. Beauty in the
eye of this beholder is not having to stop for flats; I care about
rolling resistance more than flat resistance probably less that 2% of
my rides.

That said, I got a new bike last year that came with Vittoria
Randonneurs (32 labeled width). They felt faster than the Panaracers
and Avocet Cross tires I'd been riding[1], and lasted 4000 miles on
the back. I got some more.

Pat

[1] Strangely enough, though, I couldn't tell a difference in average
speed or ride time on identical commuting trips.
Email address works as is.

[Grand Poobah]

SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS

PERIOD

"catzz66" > wrote in message
...
> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
> have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the road
> junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>
> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and am
> going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one Gatorskin
> on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more stuff.
>
> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
> up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his spring.
> It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet paper for
> me.

[landotter]

On Jun 30, 11:56 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
> SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS

I'm no weight weenie--but nearly a kg each at 32mm! No thanks. I'll
stick with my 350g flat free IRC Tandems.

[Grand Poobah]

"landotter" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 30, 11:56 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
>> SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS
>
> I'm no weight weenie--but nearly a kg each at 32mm! No thanks. I'll
> stick with my 350g flat free IRC Tandems.
>
I am a bike commuter not a racer. I am more like the turtle than the hare.

[Dancier[_13_]]

I'm running Gatorskins 23mm on the road bike and I get the occasional
puncture but thats not a bad thing either because you get good at
fixing flats. I used to run 25mm Gatorskins with Thorn tubes and once
travelled 6000k without a puncture but the 25mm are to costly compared
to the 23mm from my supplier. On the 27inch beater i'm running 1-1/8
Panracers with the kevlar bead and no problems after 2-3000k.


--
Dancier

[catzz66]

Dancier wrote:
> I'm running Gatorskins 23mm on the road bike and I get the occasional
> puncture but thats not a bad thing either because you get good at
> fixing flats. I used to run 25mm Gatorskins with Thorn tubes and once
> travelled 6000k without a puncture but the 25mm are to costly compared
> to the 23mm from my supplier. On the 27inch beater i'm running 1-1/8
> Panracers with the kevlar bead and no problems after 2-3000k.
>
>

Now I have both Gatorskins on the ground. The ride seems a little more
harsh and they are harder for me to get on the rim, but it is a small
price to pay if they are more reliable. I probably only have 50 miles
on the front tire and 20 on the rear, but so far, so good. I actually
like the stiff sidewalls. The tire doesn't flex too much when it rolls.

[Mark Shroyer]

On 2007-07-02, catzz66 > wrote:
> they are harder for me to get on the rim, but it is a small
> price to pay if they are more reliable.

My thoughts exactly. I just put on a pair of 23mm Gatorskins
myself less than two hundred miles ago... I hope they hold up
as well as advertised, because if I do get a flat out on the
road it's going to be a pain in the butt to fix it.

But so far, so good.

--
Mark Shroyer
http://markshroyer.com/

[dgk]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 11:22:13 -0500, catzz66
> wrote:

>We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer. I
>have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all the
>road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>
>I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
>am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
>Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
>stuff.
>
>I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so chewed
>up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them till his
>spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is made of toilet
>paper for me.

I am using the slime tubes now and no flats so far. However, I wish to
propose a theory: flats are sometimes (often?) deferred. You run over
glass, the bit starts working into the tube, and sometime later,
perhaps many days later, you get a flat.

I mention this because I carefully looked at a tire a few weeks back,
having removed it from the bike. I pulled out at least 7 pieces of
glass. Some don't look like they would be large enough to penetrate
the tire and the tube, but a few did look that large. So, my guess is
that carefully checking your tire weekly or monthly, off the bike,
from inside and out, may prevent some flats.

I'll admit that I don't really have the time to dismount and inspect
the tire each week, but I will try to do it monthly.

[catzz66]

Mark Shroyer wrote:
> On 2007-07-02, catzz66 > wrote:
>
>>they are harder for me to get on the rim, but it is a small
>>price to pay if they are more reliable.
>
>
> My thoughts exactly. I just put on a pair of 23mm Gatorskins
> myself less than two hundred miles ago... I hope they hold up
> as well as advertised, because if I do get a flat out on the
> road it's going to be a pain in the butt to fix it.
>
> But so far, so good.
>

Time will tell, but I am so far not picking up the rock fragments and
glass slivers that I used to have to dig out of the OEM tires. There's
something to be said for harder tire compounds, I guess. Before the
gatorskins, I was getting paranoid, stopping every five miles to inspect
my tires.

[Dancier[_14_]]

Mark Shroyer Wrote:
>
> My thoughts exactly. I just put on a pair of 23mm Gatorskins
> myself less than two hundred miles ago... I hope they hold up
> as well as advertised, because if I do get a flat out on the
> road it's going to be a pain in the butt to fix it.
>
The Gators are not puncture proof by any means so always take a repair
kit but they are just as good as any other tire out their for us 90kg
guys. I was running GP4000 for a while and ended up getting punctures
all the time because they are to soft, probably great for racing but
not a general purpose tire. The ride on the Ultra Gator is quiet harsh
at first compared to the old Gator but once worn in they are fine.


--
Dancier

[[email protected]]

Someone writes:

> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer.
> I have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all
> the road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.

> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes
> and am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have
> one Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I
> do more stuff.

> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so
> chewed up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them
> till his spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is
> made of toilet paper for me.

Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
to avoid punctures.

In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
look where they ride and rarely get a flat.

I think there is where your effort belongs.

Jobst Brandt

[ufatbastehd[_2_]]

On Jul 1, 8:21 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
> "landotter" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...> On Jun 30, 11:56 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
> >> SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS
>
> > I'm no weight weenie--but nearly a kg each at 32mm! No thanks. I'll
> > stick with my 350g flat free IRC Tandems.
>
> I am a bike commuter not a racer. I am more like the turtle than the hare.

Yeah and the way I see it the extra eight just makes you that much
stronger when you hop on your road bike!

[ufatbastehd[_2_]]

On Jul 2, 9:37 pm, ufatbastehd > wrote:
> On Jul 1, 8:21 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
>
> > "landotter" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...> On Jun 30, 11:56 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
> > >> SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS
>
> > > I'm no weight weenie--but nearly a kg each at 32mm! No thanks. I'll
> > > stick with my 350g flat free IRC Tandems.
>
> > I am a bike commuter not a racer. I am more like the turtle than the hare.
>
> Yeah and the way I see it the extra eight just makes you that much
> stronger when you hop on your road bike!

I meant weight not eight.

[landotter]

On Jul 2, 7:34 pm, wrote:
> Someone writes:
> > We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer.
> > I have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all
> > the road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
> > I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes
> > and am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have
> > one Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I
> > do more stuff.
> > I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so
> > chewed up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them
> > till his spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is
> > made of toilet paper for me.
>
> Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
> curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
> in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
> plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
> to avoid punctures.
>
> In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
> who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
> what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
> interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
> that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
> look where they ride and rarely get a flat.

I don't wholly subscribe to such theory--but a few years ago I
remarked to a friend in Chicago, "man, I haven't flatted in three
years!". That was with thousands upon thousand of commuter miles
ridden with no special precautions. No special tires or tubes. Just
run of the mill 35mm city tires. he said to me, "I've ridden behind
you, and I've never seen anybody micro-steer around debris better than
you." He may have well been blowing smoke up my ass, or perhaps I'm a
guru. Last year I had a month where I had near twenty flats between
three bikes. That for a guy who's usually flatted perhaps yearly.
Thing was, I had a couple bikes I was restoring a bit at the time and
one that I was trying to sell...I think the velo-stress compromised my
"microsteering". :-P

I've had a single flat in 20K miles with normal no kevlar city tires
of various brands. But I've had tons with specific models on my other
bikes. WTB Allterrainasaurus: ten flats in a month. Nashbar Prima:
three in a day (Prima plus, thousands of miles, one flat). A Conti
Sport which got glass daily. Kevlar has actually proved to be a flat
reducer in my experience, and tire price vs. flat is pretty neutral.

[Grand Poobah]

U DA MAN!!

********************

====================

"ufatbastehd" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Jul 2, 9:37 pm, ufatbastehd > wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 8:21 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
>>
>> > "landotter" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...> On Jun 30,
>> >11:56 am, "Grand Poobah" > wrote:
>> > >> SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS
>>
>> > > I'm no weight weenie--but nearly a kg each at 32mm! No thanks. I'll
>> > > stick with my 350g flat free IRC Tandems.
>>
>> > I am a bike commuter not a racer. I am more like the turtle than the
>> > hare.
>>
>> Yeah and the way I see it the extra eight just makes you that much
>> stronger when you hop on your road bike!
>
> I meant weight not eight.
>

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:48:58 -0700, landotter wrote:

> I've had a single flat in 20K miles with normal no kevlar city tires
> of various brands. But I've had tons with specific models on my other
> bikes. WTB Allterrainasaurus: ten flats in a month. Nashbar Prima:
> three in a day (Prima plus, thousands of miles, one flat). A Conti
> Sport which got glass daily. Kevlar has actually proved to be a flat
> reducer in my experience, and tire price vs. flat is pretty neutral.

With kevlar-belted tyres, I've found that most flats (apart from
high-speed pinches) are due to filaments of wire thin enough to
work their way between the kevlar fibres. It's rare for something
to cut the kevlar on its way through.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[dgk]

On 03 Jul 2007 00:34:28 GMT, wrote:

>Someone writes:
>
>> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer.
>> I have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all
>> the road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>
>> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes
>> and am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have
>> one Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I
>> do more stuff.
>
>> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so
>> chewed up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them
>> till his spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is
>> made of toilet paper for me.
>
>Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
>curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
>in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
>plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
>to avoid punctures.
>
>In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
>who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
>what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
>interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
>that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
>look where they ride and rarely get a flat.
>
>I think there is where your effort belongs.
>
>Jobst Brandt

My route can have a lot of glass on it, the 59th Street Bridge being a
repeat offender. I'm sure that someone just smashes a bottle or two on
the bike path upon occassion. I actually saw someone carrying his bike
over the glass a few weeks back. I try to avoid glass, of course, but
sometimes the pavement has glass and other things that are part of the
pavement and it's almost impossible to tell what is dangerous and what
isn't. It all twinkles in sunlight.

One thing is sure though, rain causes flats. I think it causes glass
to stick to the tire until it can work its way in.

[Peter Cole]

wrote:
> Someone writes:
>
>> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer.
>> I have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all
>> the road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>
>> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes
>> and am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have
>> one Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I
>> do more stuff.
>
>> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so
>> chewed up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them
>> till his spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is
>> made of toilet paper for me.
>
> Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
> curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
> in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
> plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
> to avoid punctures.
>
> In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
> who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
> what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
> interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
> that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
> look where they ride and rarely get a flat.
>
> I think there is where your effort belongs.
>
> Jobst Brandt

One thing I've noticed is that there is a pretty clear demarcation
between the areas of the road that are swept by car tires and those that
aren't. I try to observe the "debris line" and stay just to the left of
it. I notice that a lot of the people I ride with don't seem to bother
with that. It's just conjecture, but it may be a reasonable explanation
of the variation of flat frequency.

[Peter Cole]

gds wrote:

> My solution, being the victim of many, many flats have never found
> tires that really prevent them. I've gone another route. I simply got
> proficient at changing tubes. I can change a front out in ~ 3 minutes
> and a rear in ~5. I also buy tubes in bulk at a big discount and just
> live with the flats.
>

You don't patch?

[Michael Warner[_2_]]

On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:25:04 -0400, dgk wrote:

> On 03 Jul 2007 00:34:28 GMT, wrote:
>
>>Someone writes:
>>
>>> We have had an abnormal amount of rain this spring and early summer.
>>> I have gotten just about every kind of flat but pinch flat from all
>>> the road junk that floats out of the gutter during rains.
>>
>>> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes
>>> and am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have
>>> one Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I
>>> do more stuff.
>>
>>> I'd been running Specialized Mondo and Mondo Pro till they got so
>>> chewed up from the road debris. Had great experiences with them
>>> till his spring. It has been like their "flack jacket" lining is
>>> made of toilet paper for me.
>>
>>Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
>>curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
>>in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
>>plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
>>to avoid punctures.
>>
>>In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
>>who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
>>what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
>>interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
>>that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
>>look where they ride and rarely get a flat.
>>
>>I think there is where your effort belongs.
>>
>>Jobst Brandt
>
> My route can have a lot of glass on it, the 59th Street Bridge being a
> repeat offender. I'm sure that someone just smashes a bottle or two on
> the bike path upon occassion. I actually saw someone carrying his bike
> over the glass a few weeks back. I try to avoid glass, of course, but
> sometimes the pavement has glass and other things that are part of the
> pavement and it's almost impossible to tell what is dangerous and what
> isn't. It all twinkles in sunlight.
>
> One thing is sure though, rain causes flats. I think it causes glass
> to stick to the tire until it can work its way in.

IWNHT water exerted a strong enough centripetal force to hold large
enough fragments on a tyre - after all, most of the water itself is flung
off. IMHO the water/oil mix on roads lubricates the fragment each time it's
squeezed against the rubber, helping it to make a cut and work its way
in more easily.




--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

[Dane Buson]

Peter Cole > wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed is that there is a pretty clear demarcation
> between the areas of the road that are swept by car tires and those that
> aren't. I try to observe the "debris line" and stay just to the left of
> it. I notice that a lot of the people I ride with don't seem to bother
> with that. It's just conjecture, but it may be a reasonable explanation
> of the variation of flat frequency.

This is certainly true. Both of the flats I've gotten in the past ten
thousand miles were when I was riding in a bike lane. Both from 1.5"
nails. I normally prefer to ride in the road on the right tire line,
which of course has been scrubbed rather well by car tires.

--
Dane Buson -
After the last of 16 mounting screws has been removed from an access
cover, it will be discovered that the wrong access cover has been removed.

[gds]

On Jul 3, 6:14 am, Peter Cole > wrote:
> >
> You don't patch?

Nope! When buying tubes in quantity they come out to about $2 per
tube. I get an average of a flat a month. So for ~$25 a year I'm a
sport.

[catzz66]

wrote:
>
> Your story is familiar and comes up now and then on this forum. I am
> curious where this is occurring and whether there are other bicyclists
> in the area who suffer similarly. I know of riders in my area who are
> plagued by flats, even though they use inlays, slime and other means
> to avoid punctures.
>
> In contrast, there are thousands of athletic bicyclists in this area
> who aren't constantly tending to flats. I believe you should discover
> what you are doing, or not doing that is different. With all the
> interest in high performance voiced on this forum, you can be sure
> that most riders do not ride any extra tough or durable tires, they
> look where they ride and rarely get a flat.
>
> I think there is where your effort belongs.
>
> Jobst Brandt

I think it is a combination of soft tire compound on the Mondos and a
lot of rain, uncharacteristic for this part of North Texas this time of
year. I replaced one of the Mondos at 2300 miles (I know that got my
money's worth) and immediately started having the same problems with the
new Mondo Pro I mounted.

I do look down and never ride off pavement. You have probably seen my
comments, but what I was picking up was glass slivers and sharp rock
chips that washed up onto the roadway, probably. I don't ride in the
gutters and usually ride in the middle of the lane. No problems yet
with the Gatorskins. I really don't mind the slightly rougher ride.

[catzz66]

gds wrote:
> On Jul 3, 6:14 am, Peter Cole > wrote:
>
>>You don't patch?
>
>
> Nope! When buying tubes in quantity they come out to about $2 per
> tube. I get an average of a flat a month. So for ~$25 a year I'm a
> sport.
>
>

It is more trouble than it's worth for me to patch a skinny 18/23 tube.

[Peter Cole]

catzz66 wrote:
> gds wrote:
>> On Jul 3, 6:14 am, Peter Cole > wrote:
>>
>>> You don't patch?
>>
>>
>> Nope! When buying tubes in quantity they come out to about $2 per
>> tube. I get an average of a flat a month. So for ~$25 a year I'm a
>> sport.
>>
>>
>
> It is more trouble than it's worth for me to patch a skinny 18/23 tube.

I don't know, whenever I flat I have to find the source, which means
finding the tube leak. That's the only time consuming part, that and
matching the tube to the tire and checking for wire/glass. Once the leak
is found, it only takes a minute or two to slap a patch on. I usually
ride the freshly patched tube, despite what Jobst says, I don't recall a
patch failure. I keep the spare tube for rain/dark (or both) or stem
failures. I don't find skinny tubes to be any harder than wider ones to
patch.

Call me frugal (I don't mind), but my tubes usually have a dozen patches
before they're retired. Even then, I often use old tubes for bungies.
The *really* frugal buy patches and glue in bulk. I probably would too
if I got a flat a month or more.

[gds]

On Jul 3, 9:42 am, Peter Cole > wrote:
>
> I don't know, whenever I flat I have to find the source, which means
> finding the tube leak. That's the only time consuming part, that and
> matching the tube to the tire and checking for wire/glass. Once the leak
> is found, it only takes a minute or two to slap a patch on. I usually
> ride the freshly patched tube, despite what Jobst says, I don't recall a
> patch failure. I keep the spare tube for rain/dark (or both) or stem
> failures. I don't find skinny tubes to be any harder than wider ones to
> patch.

The nice thing about this discussion is that it is clear that folks
are free to do as they please and there are alternatives that are
different and best for differing riders and situations.
So, for me the extra minute or two to slap on the patch will about
double the time I spend fixing a flat on the road. That time is not so
important if I'm on a weekday morning solo ride but is a big pain on a
group ride with folks waiting. Or worse on a hard ride in which the
pack won't wait and I'm "compelled" to try to make it back to the
group :-)

In the past I patched tubes and agree with you that patches work fine-
Ijust don't find them worth the trouble.

>
> Call me frugal (I don't mind), but my tubes usually have a dozen patches
> before they're retired. Even then, I often use old tubes for bungies.
> The *really* frugal buy patches and glue in bulk. I probably would too
> if I got a flat a month or more.

And that's OK but @ ~$25 per year I find that this does not rise above
my standards of frugality. I actually spend more on the CO2 cartiges
per year than on the tubes. And that would be the same with patching.
I know I could use a pump but... .

[[email protected]]

Michael Warner writes:

>> One thing is sure though, rain causes flats. I think it causes
>> glass to stick to the tire until it can work its way in.

> IWNHT water exerted a strong enough centripetal force to hold large
> enough fragments on a tyre - after all, most of the water itself is
> flung off. IMHO the water/oil mix on roads lubricates the fragment
> each time it's squeezed against the rubber, helping it to make a cut
> and work its way in more easily.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tube-failure.html

Jobst Brandt

[Dane Buson]

Brian Huntley > wrote:
> On Jun 28, 12:22 pm, catzz66 > wrote:
>> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
>> am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
>> Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
>> stuff.
>
> I had no luck with Armadillos in urban conditions, myself. I now use
> Schwalb Marathon Plus tires - I've had tire-wire flats and one sheet
> metal screw flat, but not a single normal urban (glass, tacks, etc)
> flat for 18 months. (Knock wood.)

I've had two nail punctures in about 21 months and nothing else. The
front tire is still looking good. The rear tire (which only has 12
months on it) is looking ready for replacement.

The Schwalbe Marathon Plus is really excellent flat protection.

--
Dane Buson -
The most common given name in the world is Mohammad; the most common
family name in the world is Chang. Can you imagine the enormous number
of people in the world named Mohammad Chang?
-- Derek Wills

[Grand Poobah]

"Dane Buson" > wrote in message
...
> Brian Huntley > wrote:
>> On Jun 28, 12:22 pm, catzz66 > wrote:
>>> I have just invested in Gatorskin and Armadillo tires for my bikes and
>>> am going to see which brand gives me the best results. I have one
>>> Gatorskin on the ground already and will put the others on as I do more
>>> stuff.
>>
>> I had no luck with Armadillos in urban conditions, myself. I now use
>> Schwalb Marathon Plus tires - I've had tire-wire flats and one sheet
>> metal screw flat, but not a single normal urban (glass, tacks, etc)
>> flat for 18 months. (Knock wood.)
>
> I've had two nail punctures in about 21 months and nothing else. The
> front tire is still looking good. The rear tire (which only has 12
> months on it) is looking ready for replacement.
>
> The Schwalbe Marathon Plus is really excellent flat protection.
>
> --
> Dane Buson -
> The most common given name in the world is Mohammad; the most common
> family name in the world is Chang. Can you imagine the enormous number
> of people in the world named Mohammad Chang?
> -- Derek Wills

Yep.

[Grand Poobah]

"gds" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 3, 9:42 am, Peter Cole > wrote:
>>
>> I don't know, whenever I flat I have to find the source, which means
>> finding the tube leak. That's the only time consuming part, that and
>> matching the tube to the tire and checking for wire/glass. Once the leak
>> is found, it only takes a minute or two to slap a patch on. I usually
>> ride the freshly patched tube, despite what Jobst says, I don't recall a
>> patch failure. I keep the spare tube for rain/dark (or both) or stem
>> failures. I don't find skinny tubes to be any harder than wider ones to
>> patch.
>
> The nice thing about this discussion is that it is clear that folks
> are free to do as they please and there are alternatives that are
> different and best for differing riders and situations.
> So, for me the extra minute or two to slap on the patch will about
> double the time I spend fixing a flat on the road. That time is not so
> important if I'm on a weekday morning solo ride but is a big pain on a
> group ride with folks waiting. Or worse on a hard ride in which the
> pack won't wait and I'm "compelled" to try to make it back to the
> group :-)
>
> In the past I patched tubes and agree with you that patches work fine-
> Ijust don't find them worth the trouble.
>
>>
>> Call me frugal (I don't mind), but my tubes usually have a dozen patches
>> before they're retired. Even then, I often use old tubes for bungies.
>> The *really* frugal buy patches and glue in bulk. I probably would too
>> if I got a flat a month or more.
>
> And that's OK but @ ~$25 per year I find that this does not rise above
> my standards of frugality. I actually spend more on the CO2 cartiges
> per year than on the tubes. And that would be the same with patching.
> I know I could use a pump but... .
>
And it also depends on how easily your particular tire comes off the rim.

It takes a herculean effort to mount a tire on my 20" Sun Rhyno Lite XL
rims.