Drafting and Group Riding

[GizmoDuck]

I thought I would post a thread on the subject of drafting and riding in
groups which I think is still fairly new to unicyclists. It's been
discussed a few times but I don't think there is a specific thread for
it.

With the upcoming Ride The Lobster Race, as well as organised tours
like The Uninam Unitour, I think we need to learn how to ride more
efficiently. It's not just about going fast, it's more fun if you
don't have to work so hard :p .

Anyway, as a bicyclist, you gain advantage from riding in the
slipstream of the bicyclist in front. It's more noticeable at high
speeds, but even at the lower speeds that unicyclists ride at (eg
20-25km/hr) you can still gain quite an large effect.

I think we tend underestimate the effect because we're not used to
drafting. Some of the reasons that the drafting effect is actually
bigger than you realise are:
1) if you have a headwind, then it effectively magnifies the speed that
you travel at. You don't need to ride at 50kmhr to get the slipsteam
effect if there is a stiff headwind.
2) unicyclists generally are less aerodynamic than bikes- your frontal
profile is much larger. Therefore the effect of the lead rider of a
unicycle is much higher than it would be if you were drafting a
bicycle.
3) unicycles have a shorter wheelbase compared to bikes. So the effect
is that you are riding closer together compared to bikes if you kept
your wheels the same distance apart.

The commonly held reasons people are put off riding in groups are:
1) Risk of UPD's taking down the group. Well, this holds for bikes
also and bikes generally tend to go at much higher speeds so a crash
get's a lot more messy. And there are more things to get tangled up
in. As long as you are not riding over you limit and you look past the
cyclist in front, I think with practice most people can ride safely in
close formation.
2) It's not worth the effort. As I mentioned before, I think the
effect is much greater than most people realise (see reasons above).
From my experience it's almost as noticeable as riding in a bike
peleton.

Any thoughts?


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[rob.northcott]

The only time I've ever tried slipstreaming on a unicycle was on a muni
weekend last year when a group of us were riding fast into a strong
headwind. We used the normal bike technique of taking turns at the
front then dropping to the back. We really only did it for fun, but it
did seem to make a difference even at that speed.

To do it at coker speed on the road you'd REALLY have to trust the
other riders - but having said that, I don't like riding in groups on a
bike either, that's why I was always a time-triallist :)

Rob


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[joemarshall]

I think you can also get a draft off a bike too, which can be useful. At
Manchester to Blackpool, where there were tons of bikes around, when
Sam and I were off the front riding flat out, I used bikes a couple of
times just to give me a tow back to where Sam was. I was on the
Schlumpf, riding low, which makes me not much higher than a biker,
which might help too.

I'm not sure about the shorter wheelbase making a difference, drafting
on bikes is usually described in terms of multiples of the length of
the vehicle in front, ie. you need to stay within 20% of the bike in
front's length to get a decent draft. I dunno if there's a physics
reason for that, or if it's just a handy calculation that happens to
work for bikes with 700c tyres?

As far as crashing goes, I think there are a lot of unicyclists who
ride way beyond their limits. I know I'm happy riding right behind some
riders like Sam, Roger, John H, who I know aren't going to fall off
whilst riding on the road at my sort of speeds, but tons of riders push
it too hard, and do have crashes. I think toeclips help a lot with this
predictability, both because they keep your feet secure when you're
riding really fast, and also as a signifier of someone's skill level
because they require a certain level of confidence before you can ride
with them without breaking yourself.

The only downside of drafting in small groups, is that you tend to do
it in single file, so don't have so much time to chat with people. If
we could get decent sized groups of fast riders, and rotate in two
lines, that's much more sociable, but I know it isn't that common to
have that big a group of similar speed riders.

I think the effect isn't quite as large generally as biking, the only
times I've felt drafting to be really advantageous is when riding with
people of similar speed, whereas on a bike, I can ride with people much
fitter than me as long as I hang on in the middle of the bunch
somewhere and don't take too many turns on the front.

Joe


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[Uniman_3]

me and my friend and my little brother were messing around with it and
it works semi good to us but then again we werent exactly stream line
perfect either...


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[tomblackwood]

I believe it could have a big effect, although it makes me nervous to
think about it. Especially the pressure I'd feel as the lead rider not
to fall (see sig line).

That said, I've had bikes draft of of me before. In last year's MS Bike
Tour ride, there was a particularly nasty stretch of flats with a
side-head wind coming in from about 30 degrees off center. At one
point one of the women riders pulled up in my wind shadow and hung
there for a couple of miles. I told her I wouldn't be going very fast,
but she was grateful to have what amounted to a one-wheeled wall
blocking the headwind for a while.


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[john_childs]

The drafting benefit for unicyclists would probably be similar to the
drafting benefit for marathon runners. The speed is about the same and
the body position and exposure to the wind is about the same for each.

I'm not a runner. How much of a benefit do marathon runners get in
drafting off of other runners? You'd also have to run very close to
the person in front of you to get in any draft, almost stepping on the
heels of the person in front. If someone has experience with drafting
while running that would be useful info for this discussion.

In my experience in road bicycling it wasn't worth it to try to draft
at speeds less than 17ish mph. At the slower speeds the draft effect
isn't very strong. You also have to factor in the mental effort
(attention) and risk of drafting behind another cyclist very closely.
Add in a headwind, however, and drafting at slower speeds can become
much more beneficial.

At slower speeds the advantage to riding in a group or a small pack is
pacing. The person in front sets the pace and everyone else just
follows and keeps the same pace. It is easier to follow than to
constantly think about the pace. The person in front has to stay alert
to keeping a steady pace. They have to worry about what the people
behind them are doing strategy-wise. It is not easy to keep a steady
pace. It is easy to gradually slow down a bit and not realize it. So
the person in front has to keep more aware to set the proper pace. The
people behind just get to follow and bide their time. The advantage of
being paced by other riders is more psychological and not so much
physical.

In bicycling the drafting effect gets stronger the longer the paceline
is. The person 5 riders back gets more of a draft effect than the
person right behind the lead rider. The person 5 riders back can still
get a good draft effect farther back from the rider in front of them
because the size and strength of the air pocket is bigger. You don't
have to worry about following as closely. If you fall back a foot or
two you are still in the draft and can easily catch up with the wheel
in front of you. That's my experience with bicycling. I'm going to
assume you get a similar advantage with longer or larger pacelines
while unicycling.

I've never drafted while unicycling. For one, it's not my style of
Coker riding (speed isn't my thing). But I'm also not confident in my
riding sills at the higher Coker speeds (and the riding skills of
others) to ride closely enough to draft.

At Coker speeds for most Coker riders I think the biggest advantage to
"drafting" would be the pacesetting aspect. You get the benefit of
someone else concentrating on pace. You just get to follow as long as
you have the endurance to do so. To be paced you don't have to follow
as closely as you need to in drafting. Less danger. Less risk.
Minimal actual drafting benefit.


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[rab2009]

in running you only really notice it in a head wind. but you are right
about it being mental. if someone is setting the pace you can allow
your mind to go blank and just run. or um i mean unicycle


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Brian MacKenzie wrote:
> Coker owners,....... what do they need to look at?



forget_your_life wrote:
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[skrobo]

ok, to answer (VERY GENERALLY) the physics of it question, think of the
person in front of you as a boat, you are the skier, where are you in
their wake? i don't know the specifics, so correct me if im wrong, but
the optimum point can be found with physics. i think it would be about
1 ft behind the rider...lol, or you could be something like 5 feet i
don't know that much about aerodynamics, but i do know that it leaves
cyclones,if you could get in the right part of one of those it would
make a big difference


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[Ducttape]

I have drafted my coker behind a bike recently and I definately notice
that in a headwind it helps a lot when i unicycled the San Juan Islands
this last week (well I unicycled everyone else biked) I would draft
with a few of them on flats but noticed such a difference that I really
didn't want to attempt it on a downhill, the only time I took the lead
position was when the other guys wanted to go a bit slower....


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[Rowan]

GizmoDuck wrote:
> With the upcoming Ride The Lobster Race, as well as organised tours like
> The Uninam Unitour, I think we need to learn how to ride more
> efficiently. It's not just about going fast, it's more fun if you
> don't have to work so hard :p

I'm keen to enter the Ride The Lobster Race. I have a Nimbus 36" now,
and I have a sponsor to help me get to Canada. I don't have much Coker
fitness yet but I will work on it. In the context of the Ride the
Lobster race, would we really want to let people draft us? We want to
WIN!!! Haha. And since the race is in teams of three, with one rider
riding at a time, you would be drafting your competitors. We plan to be
in the front, so we will have to try and get as far out ahead as
possible to prevent the slow laggers trying to get a free ride drafting
behind us.

I've had very little experience drafting, not enough to have noticed
anything. But when riding into a strong headwind it is always nice to
be passed closely by a big truck going fast cos you feel a pull
forwards before slogging into the wind again. We might be able to get
our support vehicles to provide some wind breaks if it is not against
the rules.


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[joemarshall]

Rowan wrote:
> I'm keen to enter the Ride The Lobster Race. I have a Nimbus 36" now,
> and I have a sponsor to help me get to Canada. I don't have much Coker
> fitness yet but I will work on it. In the context of the Ride the
> Lobster race, would we really want to let people draft us? We want to
> WIN!!! Haha. And since the race is in teams of three, with one rider
> riding at a time, you would be drafting your competitors. We plan to be
> in the front, so we will have to try and get as far out ahead as
> possible to prevent the slow laggers trying to get a free ride drafting
> behind us.
>



The problem with attitudes like that, is that by not drafting, and
riding off in front of the group, you are using far more energy than
all the other riders. You might be able to pull off the group
temporarily, but the riders who are in the group can just ride at a
decent pace together, taking turns on the front, and using much less
energy, until you get tired, at which point the whole group will
overtake you. I hear that's why a couple of the very fast riders at the
last unicon, who have previously come top 5 multiple times in the
longer races didn't come anywhere in the top 5 in the marathon, because
the riders who came in the first 6 were willing to cooperate during
much of the race, meaning that they got much better positions than the
lone riders who weren't willing to cooperate.

The important thing here is cooperation, it isn't just one person on
the front all the time, you change over the front rider as they get
tired. This enables the bunch to average a much higher pace than a
single rider could ever do, because if you're in a bunch of 5, you're
only riding flat out 1/5 of the time, the rest of the time you're
chilling out, sipping a beer, putting your legs up (at least relative
to the amount of effort you're putting in when on the front). So even
though the bunch is stacked full of your 'enemies', you all know you
have to help each other because not helping means that you'll end up
dropped off the bunch and getting a much worse time.

The other important thing about drafting, is that you aren't just
giving the person behind a free ride. Thanks to bizarro aerodynamics,
the rider in front actually gets a benefit from having the riders close
behind. It's weird, but it's true. You can even feel it if you start to
pull off the front of a peleton on a bike, it becomes harder to keep
ahead, and you really have to go for it to get away.

For anyone who hasn't done any, it'd be worth reading up a bit about
road racing (or having a go if you happen to have a two wheeled bike),
as the whole cooperating whilst competing thing is basically what road
riding is about. I think for Ride the Lobster, the pace will be pretty
high up the front, probably something around 17-18mph or so typically,
which personally I think is well into the speeds where drafting makes
sense, especially high up on a coker, and/or into a headwind.

Joe


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[GizmoDuck]

john_childs wrote:
> The drafting benefit for unicyclists would probably be similar to the
> drafting benefit for marathon runners. The speed is about the same and
> the body position and exposure to the wind is about the same for each.
>



I think it's more significant than that. I'd say a top unicylist would
average about 5km/hr faster than a top marathon runner over the same
(marathon) distance. ie 25km/hr vs 20km/hr. There is also the extra
mass of the unicycle wheel whipping up the air underneath you.

Rowan, it's good to hear you'll be coming to RTL next year! We'd have
a pretty fast team with you onboard. But I'd take note of what Joe
says- it's easier in a group.


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[wobbling bear]

just a (may be stupid) side note: I was wondering if it were possible
that with two unicyclists riding (one in front of the other) it could
be possible that both grab a stick that links them together :o
the idea being: drafting + gain in balance ... may be this is an
impossible stunt


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[mscalisi]

Personally, I don't think drafting should be permitted in RTL. It's not
that I don't think there are benifits, because there certainly are, but
I think it's a huge liability.

Since it's a race, people will already be pushing there limits. There
WILL be high-speed UPDs, and I'd hate to see the pile ups caused by
this. The risk of injury would be dramatically higher.

Maybe in non-competitive group riding with highly competent riders, but
even then I think there's a danger.


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[kington99]

skrobo wrote:
> ok, to answer (VERY GENERALLY) the physics of it question, think of the
> person in front of you as a boat, you are the skier, where are you in
> their wake? i don't know the specifics, so correct me if im wrong, but
> the optimum point can be found with physics. i think it would be about
> 1 ft behind the rider...lol, or you could be something like 5 feet i
> don't know that much about aerodynamics, but i do know that it leaves
> cyclones,if you could get in the right part of one of those it would
> make a big difference



Being as close behind them as possibe would be best, the quesiton is if
you can get close enough for the affect to be worthwhile, and the
trade-off of better drafting versus more concentration required and
bigger chance of stacking, not how far behind is aerodynaically
optimal.


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[joemarshall]

mscalisi wrote:
>
> Since it's a race, people will already be pushing there limits. There
> WILL be high-speed UPDs, and I'd hate to see the pile ups caused by
> this. The risk of injury would be dramatically higher.
>



I think banning drafting would be silly, like some triathlons, where
there's no drafting allowed, and they have all manner of complex rules
to detect when someone is drafting and what you have to do to be
passed, which just confuse things.

In biking, it also removes much of the tactical element of road riding,
and turns it into just one big long time trial, which is all well and
good, but doesn't have the same depth of interest and complexity that
proper racing has.

About people pushing their limits and crashing, that's always a
possibility. However, it is in your interests not to be pushing your
limits too far, as a crash loses you way way more time than just riding
a little bit slower would.

People crash in racing, it's just a fact, when I've seen it it's been
when overtaking, trying to get that little bit of extra speed. I've
been right behind someone when they fell off, and you just have to try
and avoid it as well as you can. It's all part of tactics, seeing if
the person in front is safe to ride behind. I don't think drafting is
much more dangerous than simply overtaking, or chasing people down
generally, and it'd be stupid to ban those.

One other thing is, in anything other than a straight head/tail wind,
you'll likely want to be slightly to one side of them, which means that
you can often pass someone in the event of a fall.

Joe


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[Rowan]

GizmoDuck wrote:
> Rowan, it's good to hear you'll be coming to RTL next year! We'd have a
> pretty fast team with you onboard. But I'd take note of what Joe says-
> it's easier in a group. Who's your (rather generous) sponsor?

I really hope I can make it. I've got to get myself a passport and stuff
and they might think I am a terrorist with my criminal drug
convictions, but if I can pass those obstacles there is a good chance I
could enter. I was joking a bit about the not letting people draft-
just playing. My generous sponsor is Jake Sole, my long standing best
friend. He helped me when my unicycle got stolen and gave me $500 to
get myself a 29er to keep me on the road. I took so long to pay him
back that when I did the Round Lake Taupo race he decided to release me
of the debt for my effort and achievement. Jake is living in Australia
and his ability to attain money is currently greater than mine, but
with unicycling taking off in New Plymouth I am working teaching
unicycling and eventually I should be able to sponsor myself for
expensive things.


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[unipsychler]

Drafting, whether on a bicycle or a unicycle requires skill and trust.
Two variables that I don't think many at RTL will have. I'm not saying
the riders aren't skilled at riding, most are, but since most of us
don't get the opportunity to ride in groups on a regular basis where
drafting becomes "second nature" we will not have that skill developed
to the point where the riders can fully trust each other. Before you
choose to draft off someone you need the absolute confidence that the
rider in front of you can ride reasonably straight and at a constant
speed. The following distance necessary to obtain a good draft is such
that the proximity is so close that when the lead rider slows down all
the following riders will bump and likely crash. Since unicyclist
don't have brakes that they can apply quickly when such an emergency
occurs this will make safe drafting even more difficult. I think, for
safety reasons a two rider draft is do-able for a long distance but
more riders than that will intoduce problems.

I hope to be at RTL but since I don't know the skill level of each
rider I doubt I'd put myself in the position of being in a draft of
more than two or three unicyclists. If I were riding each segment with
my team who I've had the opportunity to practice drafting and am
confident in each riders ability, I'd draft with them all day long.


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[DonO]

On the 160 km Lake Tahoe ride in June I noticed that Nathan stayed
really close behind his son Beau. Was he drafting, or was Beau pulling
his dad around the lake? :)


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[GizmoDuck]

Yes I've noticed that those two often ride right on each others wheel.
I'm sure the Hoovering effect is greatest with this duo (bad pun
intended).


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