What Magura Break to use?

[Unicorn]

There are so many different models of Magura breaks on the market now:

HS 11
HS 11 Evo II
HS 33
HS 33 Evo II
HS 33 Firm Tech

Will all of them fit on the Magura 4 bolt posts on the KH brand with
the adaptors provided? Is the HS 11 inferior to the HS 33? What are the
differences between each model?

Unicorn


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[zfreak220]

the hs 11 might be a 2 bolt if I remember right, and will not work
without adapters. hs 33 whatever should be fine for your muni. it's the
newer and better version. big difference is that the hs 33 has a drag
brake feature.


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[delcypher]

I wasn't aware magura sold a plain HS33 (no mount), but if they do get
that, failing that you want the HS33 EVOII brake. Even though the EVOII
mount is useless to you because you will be using 4-bolt (you just
don't use the EVO II mount), it will still fit (providing you buy the
4-bolt mounts and bolts).

NOTE: You have will have to buy the 4-bolt mounts and bolts if they
don't come with your frame.

I don't think firm tech models will fit as the slave cylinder is a
different shape (http://tinyurl.com/35pd2m)
see page 10 of the pdf document.

HS11 is inferior to the HS33. HS33 and HS11 use different levers, but
same slave cylinders. I have not used the HS11 lever so I can't say how
good it is, but the HS33 lever is designed to be better (has the pad
adjustment dial) and I've had no problems with it all.

If you have any other questions just ask.
Hope that helps m8.


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[mikepenton]

The plain HS-33's are fine (as on my KH-24 which you may have seen at
Fluck)
According to the 2006 catalogue the firm-tech are a lightweight
version, and will not fit the standard Magura fittings - so don't
bother!
HS-11's are the entry level system, fractionally heavier and as above,
no wear dial which can also be used as a drag brake...


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[pkittle]

You can also make your own, if you're slightly handy, by purchasing
parts and putting them together. Your KH uni should have already come
with the mounts (at least my KH29 did) for maguras, and you can find
slave cylinders on eBay for pretty cheap (like $10 each, new) as well
as master cylinders/levers in the under $20 range. Hose and fittings
can be found at most decent bike shops for not much money, too, so you
can put your brand new brake together for under US$50. You can also get
a stainless hose kit from Magura for something like $80, if you want to
go that direction, and that'll take care of two sets of brakes.

Otherwise, you can find a cheap used HS11 complete, and just replace
the master cylinder/lever to have the equivalent of an HS33. If you're
not interested in the drag brake feature (which I've never used, but I
mostly muni and don't often face long (but technically simple)
descents, then any master cylinder/lever will work. All three of my
unis with maguras have the HS33 adjusters, but I've only used them to
adjust the pads when I felt too lazy to loosen up the slave cylinder
connectors.

Really, the thing to remember is that the brake on a uni isn't nearly
as important as the brake on a bike; all it does is assist your legs in
slowing the uni down. Almost any crappy, ratted-out old magura will be
up to the task. eBay and observedtrials.net are your friends here!


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[GhettoSmurf]

the echo


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[Unicorn]

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.

Check out the prices here at Chain Reaction
http://tinyurl.com/2xd5xz
The HS 11 is pretty cheap for a single brake. The HS33 are also not
priced bad for the pair.

Unicorn


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[TonyMelton]

I've used both the HS-33 and HS-11 both onroad and off. I can tell very
little difference in stopping power. Both are plenty powerful in the
stopping stakes. Saying that the HS-11 is 'entry-level' or 'inferior'
denigrates this brake.

Unicorn - you don't want the Evo or firm tech versions.


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[joemarshall]

By the way, the HS11 I think you can adjust for pad wear still, but you
need to turn an allen key bolt on the lever, rather than just using the
wear dial.

They are a bugger to buy on ebay at the moment, because there are lots
of idiots on there who bid them up to higher than Chain Reaction Cycles
prices.

Joe


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[Unicorn]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of the help here. I really appreciate it.

I ride very technical MUni and have not found much use for brakes.
However I now have a new goal in sight. In Israel just about every
major city has an old garbage dump mountain. These Dump Mounds have
perfect 60% declines! They are usually about 20 to 60 meters high.
About 6 years ago they were all closed down and covered in dirt so
there is no issue of stench any more. Keep in mind that Israel has very
rocky terrain. Downhills are no problem to find but they are usually
quite "snaky" because of all the boulders.
I have started working on the mound closest to my house and I totaly
will need breaks. It is just to hard to lock the legs and skid down.

I will keep everyone updated on my progress.

Unicorn


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[paul royle]

joemarshall wrote:
> By the way, the HS11 I think you can adjust for pad wear still, but you
> need to turn an allen key bolt on the lever, rather than just using the
> wear dial.
>
> They are a bugger to buy on ebay at the moment, because there are lots
> of idiots on there who bid them up to higher than Chain Reaction Cycles
> prices.
>
> Joe



Joe, do you want to go halves on a set from CRC? It looks like the HS11
are adjustable with a 4mm allen key. Email me if you're interested.

Paul


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[johnhimsworth]

TonyMelton wrote:
> you don't want the Evo or firm tech versions.

Is the actual evo brake any different? I thought it was just different
brackets. The Evo brackets are made to fit on v-brake mounts, with or
without a booster, but I thought the brake piston itself is the same.
Don't you just end up replacing the evo bit with the two bolt c
clamps?

Paul - I've just sent you an e-mail.


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[rob.northcott]

johnhimsworth wrote:
> Is the actual evo brake any different? I thought it was just different
> brackets.


The evo ones are the same as the "plain" ones (you just wouldn't use
the bracket). The firmtech ones are different, with the mounting
brackets actually part of the caliper body - they wouldn't fit.


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[Unicorn]

I have been looking into this issue some. Now I can be wrong, Magura
brakes are pretty rare here in Israel, so please correct me if needed.
I don't have any actual brakes to look at. I have been talking to some
Trial bikers on this issue. (Trials bikers are probably the biggest
users of Maguras.)
It seems like the brake itself is the same when comparing the regular
Maguras and the Evo IIs. The Firm Techs have a totaly different
attaching mechanism and you would have to have a special fitting welded
on to your frame. Avoid the Firm Techs at all cost! AEbikes and MCD
(Municycle.Com) both provide the collar clamps that you need for the
four bolt mounts when you purchase KH24 or KH29 unicycles from them. We
would not use the horse shoe shaped device that is provided withthe Evo
IIs. We would also not use the clamps provided with any of the Maguras.
We would attach the collar clamps around the brake cylander and then
attach the collar clamps to the four bolts on our unicycle frames.

Note the Horse shoe device is what makes the Maguras only good for up
to a 2.5" wheel. We should have no problem on the 3" wheel or even on
Lagre Marges.

Hope this helps. It would be nice to get confirmation on this.

Unicorn


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[wriggy]

Unicorn,

Your summary seems excellent from my experience of Magura brakes.

I'm not sure that a standard brake would fit a large marge rim - it
will probably depend on what tyre you fit. With a standard 3inch Dura
on my 2007 KH 24 the straddle hose connecting the two cylinders is
pretty close to the tyre. Though I'm guessing that in the UK we'll need
a good bit more mud clearance than you will :D

If it does prove too short though it should be a relatively straight
forward task to extend the hose (providing you know how to bleed
hydraulic brakes).


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[joemarshall]

wriggy wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that a standard brake would fit a large marge rim - it
> will probably depend on what tyre you fit. With a standard 3inch Dura
> on my 2007 KH 24 the straddle hose connecting the two cylinders is
> pretty close to the tyre. Though I'm guessing that in the UK we'll need
> a good bit more mud clearance than you will :D
>



With the large marge, you may need to make/get adapters to move the
brake mounts further out? Maguras are supposed to have between 26.5mm
and 30mm clearance from the mounts to the rim. If you're using KH frame
say (designed for KH xc or freeride rims), the mounts will be designed
for 38-42mm wide rims. That means that with the rim being something
like 10mm closer each side, it'll probably be out of the range of
adjustment for the magura mounts.

It might not matter though, you might be able to get by anyway, or by
just shaving down the brake pads a bit.

Joe


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[joemarshall]

joemarshall wrote:
>
> It might not matter though, you might be able to get by anyway, or by
> just shaving down the brake pads a bit.
>



I dunno if these would help with that.

http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?id=10030

Joe


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[Unicorn]

Thanks Wriggy for the confirmation of my research.

Actually in Israel we have a rainy season from October to April.
We just don't get ANY rain at all from May through September.

And yes, I love riding in the mud! And boy do we get good sticky mud
from all of the dust that has been created through the long hot dry
months!

There is a bike mechanic here who has worked on Maguras when he lived
in Germany. So I think that I can have the hose lengthened if needed.

Unicorn


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[mikepenton]

Adam,
get a rear brake for the spare hose length, it's a lot easier to
shorten a hose than lengthen one!
If you get a pair you could split the (potentially reduced) cost with
someone else who wants one, or for a 2nd uni... you don't need a longer
hose for a 3" tyre either.


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[Unicorn]

Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I am probably going to get a pair because of the
reduced price. I can then sell the other one or just keep it for future
use. Might even put it on my KH29 even though the V-Brake there is more
than enough.

Joe, the clamps that you linked are supplied when you order a KH24 or
KH29. Yes, they are needed when mounting Maguras on the four bolt
mounts. However the price at the link you supplied is very expensive.
UDC US sells them for $15 MDC for 14.9Euro and UDC UK for 12 GBP.

Unicorn


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[joemarshall]

Unicorn wrote:
>
> Joe, the clamps that you linked are supplied when you order a KH24 or
> KH29. Yes, they are needed when mounting Maguras on the four bolt
> mounts. However the price at the link you supplied is very expensive.
> UDC US sells them for $15 MDC for 14.9Euro and UDC UK for 12 GBP.
>



No they're not. The ones I linked are special offset ones, for use with
wider rims than the mounts are designed for.

Joe


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[Unicorn]

Joe, it is kind of hard to tell what the dimensions of the part are
without a mechanicle drawing. I think I see the difference though with
the assymetrical design that can be turned around to allow the brake to
get in closer or to be moved farther away from the rim. I know that the
collars that Kris provides work for the 47mm rims. I don't see why the
same collar clamps wouldn't work for the large marge rim in a Surly
Connundrum. Doesn't Surly provide clamps when they sell a Unicycle?

Unicorn


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[joemarshall]

Unicorn wrote:
> Joe, it is kind of hard to tell what the dimensions of the part are
> without a mechanicle drawing. I think I see the difference though with
> the assymetrical design that can be turned around to allow the brake to
> get in closer or to be moved farther away from the rim. I know that the
> collars that Kris provides work for the 47mm rims. I don't see why the
> same collar clamps wouldn't work for the large marge rim in a Surly
> Connundrum. Doesn't Surly provide clamps when they sell a Unicycle?
>



Yeah, if you're running a surly frame, presumably it comes with mounts
that only work with the large marge rim.

But if you upgrade to the large marge as people seem to be doing,
whilst still using the KH or other normal frame, you need to do
something to the brake mounts, the same goes in reverse if you run a
normal rim in a surly frame. Unless you run a 26" wheel, there's no
need for the silly surly frame because there's no super-wide 24" tyre
yet (I think?). I dunno if those offset mounts will offset enough to
make up the difference though.

Joe


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