Folding bike

[lardyninja]

Does anyone know why this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gears_W0QQitemZ140153487932QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3350 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
genuine.

LN

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

lardyninja > wrote in
ps.com:

> Does anyone know why this:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gears_
> W0QQitemZ140153487932QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33503QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc
> mdZViewItem
>
> magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
> genuine.
>

Well magnesium alloy has a poor history in bicycle frames and it doesn't
say which parts are which.


--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[lardyninja]

On Sep 7, 10:37 am, Tony Raven > wrote:
> Well magnesium alloy has a poor history in bicycle frames and it doesn't
> say which parts are which.
>


Really wow I was under the impression magnesium was the mutt's nuts.
Thanks for the info, guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a
branded product I know I can rely on.

LN

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

lardyninja > wrote in news:1189158867.845996.74410@
50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> On Sep 7, 10:37 am, Tony Raven > wrote:
>> Well magnesium alloy has a poor history in bicycle frames and it doesn't
>> say which parts are which.
>>
>
>
> Really wow I was under the impression magnesium was the mutt's nuts.
> Thanks for the info, guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a
> branded product I know I can rely on.
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_frame#Magnesium

(not a problem on spaceships)



--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[POHB]

On 7 Sep, 10:54, lardyninja > wrote:
> On Sep 7, 10:37 am, Tony Raven > wrote:
>
> > Well magnesium alloy has a poor history in bicycle frames and it doesn't
> > say which parts are which.
>
> Really wow I was under the impression magnesium was the mutt's nuts.
> Thanks for the info, guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy a
> branded product I know I can rely on.
>
> LN

Have you seen this thread, looks like the same thing:
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=339408

[Andreas Schulze-Bäing]

Am Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:17:17 -0700 schrieb lardyninja:

> Does anyone know why this:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gears_W0QQitemZ140153487932QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3350 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
> genuine.
>
The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
manufactured by them. The claim that the frame of this bike is made from a
magnesium/titanium alloy sounds rather unlikely considering the price.
Dahon just announced a limited special edition of their Mu-model with a
magnesium frame, weighing just 7.5kg, yet at a price of about 2500 Euros.
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/dahon-launch-lightest-ever-folder-12312?img=1
You can ask in the Dahon forum if anyone recognizes the model advertised on
epay: http://www.dahon.com/forum/index.php?

Andreas

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

Andreas Schulze-Bäing > wrote in
:
>
> The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
> manufactured by them. The claim that the frame of this bike is made
> from a magnesium/titanium alloy sounds rather unlikely considering the
> price.

Maybe its a magnesium alloy frame in the same sense as scandium alloy
frames i.e aluminium with a bit of magnesium in it.


--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[[email protected]]

On 7 Sep, 11:21, Andreas Schulze-Bäing > wrote:
> Am Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:17:17 -0700 schrieb lardyninja:
>
> > Does anyone know why this:
>
> >http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gear...
>
> > magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
> > genuine.
>
> The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
> manufactured by them.

I wouldn't assume that because it looks like a Dahon, it is. There's a
lot of copying of designs goes on in China.

My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.

It's in the garage at the moment, he's open to offers if anyone's
interested. Don't think I'd want to ride a bike built round it any
further than the shops.

Rob

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

wrote in
oups.com:
>
> My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
> with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
> model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
> time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
> was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
> on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
> as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
> rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
>

Quite often such stuff comes out the back door of the factory making the
real McCoy.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Tony Raven wrote:
>lardyninja > wrote in
ps.com:
>
>> Does anyone know why this:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gears_
>> W0QQitemZ140153487932QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33503QQssP ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQc
>> mdZViewItem
>>
>> magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
>> genuine.
>
>Well magnesium alloy has a poor history in bicycle frames and it doesn't
>say which parts are which.

They seem to be saying the frame is an alloy of magnesium and titanium.
Now that's not _absolutely_ impossible
(e.g. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1990JMatR...5.1880S
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=1993012262
http://www.materials-edge.net/html/print.php?sid=277 )
but frankly I find it rather implausable that a £99 eBay bike with
resin brake levers is going to be using exotic aerospace alloys
"as used on the (unspecified) spaceship".

On the bright side, http://www.physorg.com/news89369874.html suggests
it means you might be able to make the bike switchable from shiny to
transparent :-)

[lardyninja]

On Sep 7, 12:02 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> On the bright side,http://www.physorg.com/news89369874.htmlsuggests
> it means you might be able to make the bike switchable from shiny to
> transparent :-)


My regular steel bike already does a very good job of making itself
and me completely invisible on the road :o)

LN

[lardyninja]

On Sep 7, 11:12 am, POHB > wrote:
> Have you seen this thread, looks like the same thing:http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=339408

Thanks for that, might give this bike a miss although the Kent looks
ok if I can find a UK supplier.

I just don't understand why there are so many folding bikes being sold
by bike shops and yet so few used ones appear on loot/ebay etc. And
the ones that do appear go for a significant percentage of the new
price. Is someone stockpiling against the future oil peak?

LN

[Peter Clinch]

lardyninja wrote:

> I just don't understand why there are so many folding bikes being sold
> by bike shops and yet so few used ones appear on loot/ebay etc.

Bear in mind the relative production levels of folders are miniscule
compared to standard diamond frames. That's because they're more
awkward to amke and thus more expensive to make and sell, plus the
general market perception that anything with small wheels is some sort
of joke bike. Look in a bike shop, and you'll see 2 or 3 folders
against /dozens/ of diamond frames, and that will reflect sales.

Because they are a niche I think it's entirely possible that they tend
to be bought by people with a mind to ongoing and pre-researched use.
If you've just bought the thing, why would you sell it?

> And
> the ones that do appear go for a significant percentage of the new
> price.

That's economics so simple even I can understand it: simple supply and
demand. The 2nd hand demand runs close to or outstrips the 2nd hand
supply, so it's a seller's market (but you'll still lose money if you
sell your new one, so no incentive to sell if you're using it).

> Is someone stockpiling against the future oil peak?

No, it's simply a niche market. If you don't want/need a fold it just
adds cost, weight and complexity and something else to go wrong. So not
surprising that not everyone's keen.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[congokid]

In article . com>,
lardyninja > writes

>I just don't understand why there are so many folding bikes being sold
>by bike shops and yet so few used ones appear on loot/ebay etc. And
>the ones that do appear go for a significant percentage of the new
>price. Is someone stockpiling against the future oil peak?

There are quite a few Bromptons on ebay right now.

I'll be selling a new folding bike on ebay pretty shortly - a
competition prize that I don't need (I already have a Brompton).
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

[Andreas Schulze-Bäing]

Am Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:46:03 -0700 schrieb :

> On 7 Sep, 11:21, Andreas Schulze-Bäing > wrote:
>> Am Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:17:17 -0700 schrieb lardyninja:
>>
>>> Does anyone know why this:
>>
>>>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-Titanium-Alloy-Folding-Bike-6-Gear...
>>
>>> magnesium and titanium folder is soooooo cheap. The seller seems to be
>>> genuine.
>>
>> The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
>> manufactured by them.
>
> I wouldn't assume that because it looks like a Dahon, it is. There's a
> lot of copying of designs goes on in China.

Ok, I just thought that because Dahon is producing loads of bikes sold
under a different brand name.
The bikes frame might have been produced by the same factory that produces
the cheapy Kent folding bike frame sold on amazon.com.

> My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
> with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
> model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
> time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
> was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
> on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
> as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
> rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.

You mean, it might not be a double butted frame?
http://www.reynoldscycles.co.uk/buttedtubing.html

> It's in the garage at the moment, he's open to offers if anyone's
> interested. Don't think I'd want to ride a bike built round it any
> further than the shops.

Maybe for a very light-weight person...

Andreas

[Rob Morley]

In article . com>,
lardyninja
says...
find a UK supplier.
>
> I just don't understand why there are so many folding bikes being sold
> by bike shops and yet so few used ones appear on loot/ebay etc.

Because it's easy to stick them in the back of a cupboard and forget
about them? :-)

[Rob Morley]

In article . com>,
says...

> My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
> with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
> model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
> time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
> was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
> on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
> as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
> rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
>
It could have just been spirited away from the production line before
the final lacquer coat had been applied ...

[Artemisia[_2_]]

On 7 sep, 12:21, Andreas Schulze-Bäing > wrote:

> The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
> manufactured by them.

It looks _very_ like the 2007 Speed TR: actually so much like it might
be considered counterfeit...

EFR
Ile de France

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Tony Raven
') wrote:

> wrote in
> oups.com:
>>
>> My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
>> with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
>> model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
>> time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
>> was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
>> on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
>> as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
>> rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
>>
>
> Quite often such stuff comes out the back door of the factory making the
> real McCoy.

And in China I gather there's a popular scam, when you get a contract to
make products for a western company, to set up two factories from the
drawings: one to make 'genuine' products for your western client, the
other to make virtually identical black market copies. These may be just
as good as the real thing, or may use inferior materials and cut dangerous
corners.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This mind intentionally left blank ]

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

Simon Brooke > wrote in
:

>
> And in China I gather there's a popular scam, when you get a contract
> to make products for a western company, to set up two factories from
> the drawings: one to make 'genuine' products for your western client,
> the other to make virtually identical black market copies. These may
> be just as good as the real thing, or may use inferior materials and
> cut dangerous corners.
>

Its easy to tell the former - they are the ones with the lead paint ;-)

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Josey]

"lardyninja" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Sep 7, 12:02 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>> On the bright side,http://www.physorg.com/news89369874.htmlsuggests
>> it means you might be able to make the bike switchable from shiny to
>> transparent :-)
>
>
> My regular steel bike already does a very good job of making itself
> and me completely invisible on the road :o)

Presumably yoy had to klingon to it?

Jc

[Arellcat]

On 7 sep, 12:21, Andreas Schulze-Bäing and Artemesia wrote:

>> The bike looks quite like some of the Dahon designs, it's probably
>> manufactured by them.

> It looks _very_ like the 2007 Speed TR: actually so much like it might
> be considered counterfeit...

Right then.

"Weight: 9.8kg (Lightest 20inch folding bike in the world)"

No, it's not. With that rack on it? And that many spokes? Even my Dahon
Helios SL with mudguards and lights is lighter. Perhaps the seller means
"Lightest 20inch folding bike at that price point"? It could be, if you
don't mind the plastic brake levers and bottom-end Shimano gears.
Dahon-licenced folders such as the Compass Marine are comparably priced but
under-specc'ed, while Dahon-built folders like the Ridgeback Envoy are more
into the budget 'proper' folder market.

"We have a large design team and a big bicycle manufactory to make quality
bicycles ... Therefore be confidence in bidding."

Inspires confidence in me, certainly. Anyone want to buy one just to find
out?

Becky

[[email protected]]

On 7 Sep, 14:39, Rob Morley > wrote:
> In article . com>,
> says...
>
> > My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
> > with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
> > model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
> > time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
> > was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
> > on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
> > as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
> > rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
>
> It could have just been spirited away from the production line before
> the final lacquer coat had been applied ...

It /could/ have been... but would you trust it on a fast bit of single
track?

[Roger Merriman]

lardyninja > wrote:

> On Sep 7, 12:02 pm, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> > On the bright side,http://www.physorg.com/news89369874.htmlsuggests
> > it means you might be able to make the bike switchable from shiny to
> > transparent :-)
>
>
> My regular steel bike already does a very good job of making itself
> and me completely invisible on the road :o)
>
> LN

some cars have that ablity as well....

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

[Roger Merriman]

Tony Raven > wrote:

> wrote in
> oups.com:
> >
> > My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
> > with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
> > model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
> > time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
> > was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
> > on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
> > as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
> > rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
> >
>
> Quite often such stuff comes out the back door of the factory making the
> real McCoy.

not the same thing but i like it any way.

one of the hoover i think it was had some of there stock dispearing, as
the factory was built next to a river, so some of the workers would load
up a palet and send it down river....



roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

[Marc]

Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tony Raven > wrote:
>
>> wrote in
>> oups.com:
>>> My partner's son recently went to China on a school trip, came back
>>> with a "Specialized" frame that cost him £19. Can't remember the
>>> model, bikes built round it go for around £1200. He spent a lot of
>>> time researching it when he got home and the only way he could tell it
>>> was a fake was that the Specialized name was a transfer, not sprayed
>>> on. Otherwise it was externally a perfect copy. The weight was right
>>> as well, but I assume this was achieved by using thin tube throughout
>>> rather than the clever variations that goes in to good frames.
>>>
>> Quite often such stuff comes out the back door of the factory making the
>> real McCoy.
>
> not the same thing but i like it any way.
>
> one of the hoover i think it was had some of there stock dispearing, as
> the factory was built next to a river, so some of the workers would load
> up a palet and send it down river....

Certainly couldn't have been the Hoover Plant in Methyr tydfil, because
some layabout thieving gits would have stoled it before the Hoover
employed thieving gits could have recovered it!
No honour amongst thieves.

[Daniel Barlow]

Roger Merriman wrote:
> one of the hoover i think it was had some of there stock dispearing, as
> the factory was built next to a river, so some of the workers would load
> up a palet and send it down river....

Presumably the circumstances in which this theft was eventually found
and stopped were afterwards known as the Hoover Dam.

-dan

[Roger Merriman]

Daniel Barlow > wrote:

> Roger Merriman wrote:
> > one of the hoover i think it was had some of there stock dispearing, as
> > the factory was built next to a river, so some of the workers would load
> > up a palet and send it down river....
>
> Presumably the circumstances in which this theft was eventually found
> and stopped were afterwards known as the Hoover Dam.
>
> -dan

ooh

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com