Buying a Brompton

[Jackbike]

Common sense has prevailed, and I'm seriously thinking of buying a Brompton
for shopping and daily commute (12 miles each way), but the choices, oh the
choices.

Is the 6 speed option worth it?

Any opinions on which model and spec to go for, and any downsides. Do I
recall that Guy bought one some time ago?

J

[Peter Clinch]

Jackbike wrote:
> Common sense has prevailed, and I'm seriously thinking of buying a Brompton
> for shopping and daily commute (12 miles each way), but the choices, oh the
> choices.
>
> Is the 6 speed option worth it?

Kinda depends what you want and what the terrain is... Upside of more
gears is a slightly bigger overall range and more chance of having a
sweet-spot gear at any given time. Downside is more things to go wrong
and more expense. I'm very happy with a 3 and mine is of the age/type
where I can retrofit the 6 speed for £65, but having tested one and had
the mioney in my pocker I decided I'd keep the money. OTOH, a friend
was happy to upgrade to a 6 when his original 3 was knackered after
very hard use.
I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think that for
24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard at a Birdy.

> Any opinions on which model and spec to go for, and any downsides.

P bars, more weight against more positions. I don't think you need more
positions for comfort that much as the basic riding position doesn't
weight your hands much, but I guess you can get down into a crouch on
the low bars more easily. But again, if you want to go fast do you
really want a Brom? As you can tell, not convinced by the P bars!

S bars, if looks and lightness matter they'll be better, but limit your
luggage more (not so good for shopping) and probably more weight on your
arms so less comfort there.

Luggage: yes, you want it IMHO, just a matter of which one of basket,
standard or touring pannier (or S-bag if the S bars are on).

If you'll have a longish commute through the year then the hub dynamo
lighting would make a lot of sense, but if you prefer an existing
battery setup it should transfer okay.

Titanium BLING!: how's your money supply and how much of a weight weenie
are you?

Gearing reduction: on the 3 IMHO you want one even for the flat if you
prefer higher cadences to mashing, if you're in a hilly spot you really
want it. For Real Hills (TM) you're well off with the -18% on the 3.
I'd be inclined to get the -12 on a 6, but I like high cadences rather
than mashing. Note the Brom does not respond well to standing up and
mashing hard.

Colour: the yellow ones are where it's at! ;-)

Rack: I think the front pannier is a better general solution, as it's
very easy to dismount and doesn't affect the parking flick-under. It's
rather low for panniers, and for high capacity work I'd think a trailer
would be the way to go.

But don't rule out alternatives to the Brom. While it's about as
foldable a machine as you can get and still have a reasonable ride, if
you make some concessions to ease and size of fold you can have abetter
riding machine and better gear options (the Birdy being an obvious case).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[David Damerell]

Quoting Jackbike <me@somewhere>:
>Common sense has prevailed, and I'm seriously thinking of buying a Brompton
>for shopping and daily commute (12 miles each way), but the choices, oh the
>choices.
>Is the 6 speed option worth it?

I have a three-speed which I am perfectly happy with.

The six-speed only moderately extends the existing range; what it _does_
do well is to eliminate the awkward spots between the 3-speed's gears. I
find only the spot between middle and top annoying in that respect, and
certainly not enough so to make the bike any heavier to get away from it.

I recently got a replacement for a stolen B (sigh) and only got a 3-speed
because I had a choice between what was in the shop and a 16-week wait for
one to spec. Otherwise I would have gone single-speed for a lighter bike.

>Any opinions on which model and spec to go for, and any downsides.

Mudguards yes. I have not felt the need for a rear rack, since the Touring
Pannier and a huge saddlebag carry as much stuff as I want to carry on a
B. I got a SON, but since I was getting it as aftermarket I put on a
Lumotec Plus not the standlightless stock headlight. Do get the Brompton
rear dynamo light if you go this route, a normal D-Toplight or similar
won't quite fit.

Downsides - it's no lighter than a bike, it's just smaller. It's also
incredibly stealable.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is Monday, September.

[Clive George]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...

> But don't rule out alternatives to the Brom. While it's about as
> foldable a machine as you can get and still have a reasonable ride, if
> you make some concessions to ease and size of fold you can have abetter
> riding machine and better gear options (the Birdy being an obvious case).

You seen how expensive a birdy is? 1250 quid or so for the cheapest with
rack, guards and lights.

cheers,
clive

[[email protected]]

In message >
Peter Clinch > wrote:


[snip]


> I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think that for
> 24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard at a Birdy.

I have done the 24 miles per day commute KT3 6JE to SE1 1hR and at my
age and condition felt that the 6 speeds were warranted- inthe teeth
of a gale, and when tired. I still had to push up Gypsy Hill - not on
my commute, though.

>> Any opinions on which model and spec to go for, and any downsides.

> P bars, more weight against more positions. I don't think you need more
> positions for comfort that much as the basic riding position doesn't
> weight your hands much, but I guess you can get down into a crouch on
> the low bars more easily.

Main advantage to P bars in use is that you have a more upright
position; the top bars to me are uncomfortable as the thumbs are below
wrist; this gets worse on the bottom bar. There does seem to me to be
a high wrist/hand load.

There is not much room for accessories - but lights can be mounted on
the uprights' widenning the bike.

> But again, if you want to go fast do you
> really want a Brom? As you can tell, not convinced by the P bars!

An airnimal Chameleon and a rucsack?

, you want it IMHO, just a matter of which one of basket,
> standard or touring pannier (or S-bag if the S bars are on).

Touring panier has noticeable wind resistance, enormous capacity and
laden cannot be easily carried in one hand off-bike as the handle is
off-centre and too small so my hands can't grip it.

> If you'll have a longish commute through the year then the hub dynamo
> lighting would make a lot of sense, but if you prefer an existing
> battery setup it should transfer okay.

The bottle dynamo is pretty good but the interference connectors on
the bottom should be replaced with proper clips.

> Titanium BLING!: how's your money supply and how much of a weight weenie
> are you?

> Note the Brom does not respond well to standing up and
> mashing hard.
Seconded.

> Colour: the yellow ones are where it's at! ;

No comment!

> Rack: I think the front pannier is a better general solution, as it's
> very easy to dismount and doesn't affect the parking flick-under.

Agreed. but you can get a rear rack to which you canfit in-line skate
wheels which mean the folded machine can be pushed along with unfolded
saddle or handle bars , but not bumped along, as the axle-bolts are
5mm and will bend... On the rack you can mount bags which have low
wind resistance - but you then have to detach the bag to fold bike.

> It's
> rather low for panniers,

You meant full-size rear panniers, perhaps?

> and for high capacity work I'd think a trailer
> would be the way to go.

Hopefully mine arrives tomorrow!



--
Charles
Brompton P-type T6 in Motspur Park
LCC; CTC.

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Clive George wrote:
>"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
>
>> But don't rule out alternatives to the Brom. While it's about as
>> foldable a machine as you can get and still have a reasonable ride, if
>> you make some concessions to ease and size of fold you can have abetter
>> riding machine and better gear options (the Birdy being an obvious case).
>
>You seen how expensive a birdy is? 1250 quid or so for the cheapest with
>rack, guards and lights.

995 at http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk for a Red with expedition rack,
mudguards, and Birdy dynamo light set. Not cheap, but a bit less than
1250 (and cheaper light options exist). If you mean cheapest with the
new style frame, then 1165.

(LBS had a City with extras for 900 in their closing down sale, but I
decided even at that reduction I couldn't justify it when my existing
folder does the job I use it for. But it's a nice bike and maybe the
OP does have the money for it.)

[Dave Larrington]

In ,
Jackbike <me@somewhere> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Do I recall that Guy bought one some
> time ago?


Cor, how did you know that?

:-)

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
We had that Maurits C. Escher in to do some building work once.
I haven't been able to leave the house since.

[Peter Clinch]

Clive George wrote:

> You seen how expensive a birdy is?

Yes. Don't know the OP's budget, but if it stretches to a Birdy then it
does do its thangs better than a Brompton until you come to fold it up.
Guess that's involved with the cost to some degree, plus if you go for
the full-on Ti BLING! on a Brom you're looking at an extra £350 or so
which puts it in the same ballpark.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Andreas Schulze-Bäing]

Am Thu, 20 Sep 2007 17:19:50 +0100 schrieb Clive George:

> "Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> But don't rule out alternatives to the Brom. While it's about as
>> foldable a machine as you can get and still have a reasonable ride, if
>> you make some concessions to ease and size of fold you can have abetter
>> riding machine and better gear options (the Birdy being an obvious case).
>
> You seen how expensive a birdy is? 1250 quid or so for the cheapest with
> rack, guards and lights.

It does not need to be that expensive. I'm looking for a folder myself at
the moment. And in terms of value-for-money I'm quite tempted by one of the
models from Dahon.
http://www.dahon.com/intl/folding-bicycles-intl-models.htm
They might not be as foldable to a small package as the Brommie or the
birdy, but for slightly longer rides the 20"-wheel models might be better,
and you can still take it on the train or into the workplace. Also many of
their models have all the features of a good utility/commuting bike. The MU
XL model, (http://www.dahon.com/intl/muxl.htm) probably the one i will buy
soon, has a hub dynamo light system, Nexus 8 Premium hub gears and Ergon
grips. As these are all features that I would see as essential anyway for a
new bike, it could well replace my old bike completely.
And if you want gears with a very wide range, you can get a model with SRAM
Dualdrive: http://www.dahon.com/intl/speedtr.htm

My only worry is that I'm 6'3" tall and weigh about a 100 kg. So I should
just about fit the dimensions of most folding bikes. But there are not
really many shops for foldable bikes here around Liverpool to do a test
ride. Also the prices in the UK are rather high, so I'm quite tempted to
get one from the continent via ebay, (e.g.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/DER-FALTRADSHOP) hoping that it does fit.

Andreas

[Clive George]

"Andrew Price" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:19:28 +0100, Peter Clinch
> > wrote:
>
> [---]
>
>>I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think that for
>>24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard at a Birdy.
>
> Why?

Dunno about Pete, but although there are people who enjoy riding a brompton
for long distances, there are others who find them distinctly lacking, and
I'm one of them. Small, fast folding - but for me the compromises made to
the riding experience mean it's not fun for anything more than short
distances. Ditto my wife. Interestingly she's tiny, I'm not, yet we both
find it not a great bike to ride.

We get to find out if the Birdy is any better very soon though :-)

cheers,
clive

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Andrew Price
') wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:19:28 +0100, Peter Clinch
> > wrote:
>
> [---]
>
>>I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think that for
>>24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard at a Birdy.
>
> Why?

Allegedly rides a lot better. All folding bikes are compromises; the
Brompton is heavily optimised to fold small. A Birdy folds only a little
less small, but is lighter, has front as well as rear suspension and the
frame is stiffer. However, some people don't like the way a Birdy rides,
so try before you buy.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

---===***<<< This space to let! >>>***===---
Yes! You, too, can SPAM in the Famous Brooke Rotating .sig!
---===***<<< Only $300 per line >>>***===---

[Peter Clinch]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message >, Andrew Price
> ') wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:19:28 +0100, Peter Clinch
>> > wrote:
>>
>> [---]
>>
>>> I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think that for
>>> 24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard at a Birdy.
>> Why?
>
> Allegedly rides a lot better. All folding bikes are compromises; the
> Brompton is heavily optimised to fold small. A Birdy folds only a little
> less small, but is lighter, has front as well as rear suspension and the
> frame is stiffer. However, some people don't like the way a Birdy rides,
> so try before you buy.

Wot Simon Says, though I'd say "different" rather than "better": a Birdy
rides such that if you weren't looking down you'd be hard pushed to tell
you weren't on a "normal" bike. The Brom is nice for a pootle with an
upright seating position but over a long run that means rather a lot of
air resistance and possibly a numb bum (and as previously stated,
standing on the pedals doesn't work that well). Add in the frame
stiffness and lightness and a better set of gearing options and the
Birdy holds most of the trumps on a long road between folds.

I have and love a Brom, but I don't use it much beyond 6 or 7 miles each
way, and that much is fairly unusual and I'd more usually use another
bike. I think the Birdy is a better All Purpose Bike, though the Brom
is better for a short ride with a fold at either end.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Dave Larrington]

In ,
Peter Clinch > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> in message >, Andrew Price
>> ') wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:19:28 +0100, Peter Clinch
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> [---]
>>>
>>>> I think for 24 miles a day I'd go for the 6. OTOH I also think
>>>> that for 24 miles a day I'd be far more inclined to look very hard
>>>> at a Birdy. Why?
>>
>> Allegedly rides a lot better. All folding bikes are compromises; the
>> Brompton is heavily optimised to fold small. A Birdy folds only a
>> little less small, but is lighter, has front as well as rear
>> suspension and the frame is stiffer. However, some people don't like
>> the way a Birdy rides, so try before you buy.
>
> Wot Simon Says, though I'd say "different" rather than "better": a
> Birdy rides such that if you weren't looking down you'd be hard
> pushed to tell you weren't on a "normal" bike. The Brom is nice for
> a pootle with an upright seating position but over a long run that
> means rather a lot of air resistance and possibly a numb bum (and as
> previously stated, standing on the pedals doesn't work that well).
> Add in the frame stiffness and lightness and a better set of gearing
> options and the Birdy holds most of the trumps on a long road between
> folds.
>
> I have and love a Brom, but I don't use it much beyond 6 or 7 miles
> each way, and that much is fairly unusual and I'd more usually use
> another bike. I think the Birdy is a better All Purpose Bike, though
> the Brom is better for a short ride with a fold at either end.


Looking up the results for one Tal Katzir on a recent stroll through
northern France reveals that he:

est arrivé le 24/08 à 16h07 à SAINT QUENTIN (15)


On a Brompton. A slightly non-standard one - IIRC it had two chainrings -
but...

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Ha ha, you fool! You've fallen victim to one of the classic
blunders! The most famous is "Never get involved in a land war
in Asia"

[Peter Clinch]

Dave Larrington wrote:

> Looking up the results for one Tal Katzir on a recent stroll through
> northern France reveals that he:
>
> est arrivé le 24/08 à 16h07 à SAINT QUENTIN (15)
>
>
> On a Brompton. A slightly non-standard one - IIRC it had two chainrings -
> but...

I would suspect a case of "it's not about the bike", or rather "it /is/
about the bike, but not in a performance enhancing way".

I have overtaken serious MTBs on the off-road trails around the
Aviemore/Feshiebridge area on mine, but I think that's more a comment on
occasional riders buying their way into a new hobby rather than the
intrinsic off-road performance of a Brompton!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
>
> I have overtaken serious MTBs on the off-road trails around the
> Aviemore/Feshiebridge area on mine, but I think that's more a comment on
> occasional riders buying their way into a new hobby rather than the
> intrinsic off-road performance of a Brompton!
>

Reminds me of a visit to the Penshurst Off Road site many moons ago when
suspension was rare. A dad and his son arrived sporting spangley new
very expensive top of the line full suspension GT jobbies. They set off
and were back in a few minutes with Dad throwing his bike angrily on the
ground with "If I'd known it was as hard to pedal as the old bike I
wouldn't have wasted my money on it" The rest of the folks (including
several members of the then Animal downhill team) fell about laughing.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[David Damerell]

Quoting Peter Clinch >:
>Guess that's involved with the cost to some degree, plus if you go for
>the full-on Ti BLING! on a Brom you're looking at an extra £350 or so
>which puts it in the same ballpark.

Especially once you pay for the dental work - there's a Ti pedal spindle
involved.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is Friday, September.

[David Damerell]

Quoting Dave Larrington >:
>Looking up the results for one Tal Katzir on a recent stroll through
>northern France reveals that he:
> est arrivé le 24/08 à 16h07 à SAINT QUENTIN (15)
>On a Brompton.

Damn it, Larrington, couldn't you have waited until I'd been smug about
doing a 50k on one on Sunday?
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is Friday, September.

[dkahn400]

On Sep 24, 3:00 pm, David Damerell >
wrote:
> Quoting Dave Larrington >:
>
> >Looking up the results for one Tal Katzir on a recent stroll through
> >northern France reveals that he:
> > est arrivé le 24/08 à 16h07 à SAINT QUENTIN (15)
> >On a Brompton.
>
> Damn it, Larrington, couldn't you have waited until I'd been smug about
> doing a 50k on one on Sunday?

Finishing PBP on a Brommie is impressive but pales into insignificance
compared with Drew Buck's feat of finishing on a 1913 (?) Hirondelle,
while dressed as an onion Johnny. The bike features an early 2 speed
system where low gear is engaged by backpedalling. The bike is
entirely original apart from the pedals. Even so the new pedals have
no clips or straps, nor of course (shudder) clipless system.

I'm relieved to say that I passed Drew about 30km from the finish.

Official photos of Drew here:

<http://www.maindruphoto.com/advanced_search_result.php?
cPath=1124_1125&numbercompetitor=7438&submit2=Search&&language=en>

Or here:

<http://tinyurl.com/22ztnk>

--
Dave..

[Peter Clinch]

dkahn400 wrote:

> Finishing PBP on a Brommie is impressive but pales into insignificance
> compared with Drew Buck's feat of finishing on a 1913 (?) Hirondelle,
> while dressed as an onion Johnny. The bike features an early 2 speed
> system where low gear is engaged by backpedalling. The bike is
> entirely original apart from the pedals. Even so the new pedals have
> no clips or straps, nor of course (shudder) clipless system.

Pah! He isn't even wearing a stripey shirt! ;-)

(Smiley done with, Nuff respect!)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
>
> Looking up the results for one Tal Katzir on a recent stroll through
> northern France reveals that he:
>
> est arrivé le 24/08 à 16h07 à SAINT QUENTIN (15)
>

Yep, he's a regular of the BromptonTalk forum. Did it in 3 minutes
under the cutoff. His stats were:

Total time: 89H57m
Total average speed: 13.88 km/h
Ride time: 64H33m35s
Ride speed: 19.34 km/h
Distance: 1249.19 km (including a detour or two)


--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Dave Larrington]

In ,
Peter Clinch > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
us:
> dkahn400 wrote:
>
>> Finishing PBP on a Brommie is impressive but pales into
>> insignificance compared with Drew Buck's feat of finishing on a 1913
>> (?) Hirondelle, while dressed as an onion Johnny. The bike features
>> an early 2 speed system where low gear is engaged by backpedalling.
>> The bike is entirely original apart from the pedals. Even so the new
>> pedals have no clips or straps, nor of course (shudder) clipless
>> system.
>
> Pah! He isn't even wearing a stripey shirt! ;-)

He is if you crank up the Junior Pocket Microscope (model 3a). The onions &
garlic are fake, though.

Drew passed me on the climb of Roc Trevezel on the return leg and I never
saw him again :-(

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
If you are choking on an ice cube, simply pour a jug of boiling
water down your throat and presto! The blockage is almost
instantly removed.

[dkahn400]

On Sep 25, 8:24 am, "Dave Larrington" >
wrote:
> ,
> Peter Clinch > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
> us:
>
> > Pah! He isn't even wearing a stripey shirt! ;-)
>
> He is if you crank up the Junior Pocket Microscope (model 3a). The onions &
> garlic are fake, though.

Further evidence of shirt stripiness can be found on this French blog.

<http://jeanpba.homeip.net/?page=72&onglet=1>

When the page has loaded scan for the following text: "Nous ne nous
inquiétons pas pour Drew". Beside it should be a picture of our hero
apparently examining the verge closely for wild flower specimens. Note
too the period attaché case on the rack and the fact that the bike has
a kick stand.

> Drew passed me on the climb of Roc Trevezel on the return leg and I never
> saw him again :-(

Makes you spit, doesn't it? He's an authentic hard-man.

--
Dave...

[Dave Larrington]

In ups.com,
dkahn400 > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> On Sep 25, 8:24 am, "Dave Larrington" >
> wrote:

>> Drew passed me on the climb of Roc Trevezel on the return leg and I
>> never saw him again :-(
>
> Makes you spit, doesn't it? He's an authentic hard-man.

Especially as I passed him about 60 km in and thought "That's the last I'll
see of *him* until the weekend"

Hubris, innit...

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Wood is an excellent material for making trees, but is otherwise
not to be trusted.

[Alan Braggins]

In article om>, dkahn400 wrote:
>On Sep 25, 8:24 am, "Dave Larrington" >
>wrote:
>> Peter Clinch > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell
>> us:
>>
>> > Pah! He isn't even wearing a stripey shirt! ;-)
>>
>> He is if you crank up the Junior Pocket Microscope (model 3a). The onions &
>> garlic are fake, though.
>
>Further evidence of shirt stripiness can be found on this French blog.
><http://jeanpba.homeip.net/?page=72&onglet=1>

http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/news/article/back-pedalling-onion-man-attempts-paris-brest-paris-11932
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seattlerando/1267455556