Cycling too dangerous for Manchester's cops...

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm

All cyclists need training but...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

[Tom Crispin]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:07:02 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
> wrote:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>
>All cyclists need training but...

Next time a policeman is killed driving a police car perhaps they'll
ban driving by policemen.

Or what about a policeman killed while walking...

[Señor Chris]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>
> All cyclists need training but...
>

Especially police cyclists. The last time I saw a group of them they
were all cycling along the pavement...

[7@m3 G33k]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>
> All cyclists need training but...
>

What's the news here? It's quite clear that only *inexperienced* cycle
officers are being *temporarily* taken off of their bikes while a safety
review takes place. They state that they expect all officers will be
back patrolling on bikes within a couple of months. Sounds like a
responsible employer taking the health & safety of it's employees
seriously after a fatal accident at work. Good on them.

Ian

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>
> All cyclists need training but...
>

I can't say I disagree with what they have done. We all know that cycle
training is the best way to improve safety and sending them out there to
carry out their jobs on bicycles without having had basic training in
safe riding is, I would suggest, irresponsible. You wouldn't let
untrained people rewire electrical equipment at work on the basis that
they have changed a plug at home.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Andy Morris]

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>
> All cyclists need training but...
>
From what I've seen of bike plods they do tend to ride in a
non-vehicular way, which may or may not be the case here.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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[Rob Morley]

In article >, 7@m3 G33k
says...
> Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
> >
> > All cyclists need training but...
> >
>
> What's the news here? It's quite clear that only *inexperienced* cycle
> officers are being *temporarily* taken off of their bikes while a safety
> review takes place. They state that they expect all officers will be
> back patrolling on bikes within a couple of months. Sounds like a
> responsible employer taking the health & safety of it's employees
> seriously after a fatal accident at work. Good on them.
>
I think the newsworthiness is that they've essentially admitted that
they let a load of bobbies loose on bikes without first giving them
adequate safety training.

[Rob Morley]

In article >, Señor Chris
says...
> Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
> >
> > All cyclists need training but...
> >
>
> Especially police cyclists. The last time I saw a group of them they
> were all cycling along the pavement...
>
<AOL> Me too. </AOL>

[Paul Boyd]

Tom Crispin said the following on 24/09/2007 21:14:

> Or what about a policeman killed while walking...

Or what about an innocent member of the public killed by a police
driver? I wonder if they'll ban all police drivers from now on. Hmmm...

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

[M-gineering]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:07:02 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
> > wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7011292.stm
>>
>> All cyclists need training but...
>
> Next time a policeman is killed driving a police car perhaps they'll
> ban driving by policemen.
>
> Or what about a policeman killed while walking...

Or a policeman kill while policing ....

--
/Marten

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >, usenet.is.worse@plusnet
says...
> Tom Crispin said the following on 24/09/2007 21:14:
>
> > Or what about a policeman killed while walking...
>
> Or what about an innocent member of the public killed by a police
> driver? I wonder if they'll ban all police drivers from now on. Hmmm...
>

They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.


--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[7@m3 G33k]

Rob Morley wrote:

> I think the newsworthiness is that they've essentially admitted that
> they let a load of bobbies loose on bikes without first giving them
> adequate safety training.

Indeed - my admittedly not so clear point was that the tone of previous
posts in this thread implied that the GM Police were doing something
wrong or stupid or anti-cycling by taking this action whereas the facts
demonstrate just the opposite.

Ian

[Patter]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:00:01 +0100, Tony Raven wrote:
> They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
> without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
> cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
> some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
> and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.

and ones that don't cycle across pedestrian crossings where they can
take the road to go the same way (yes Leeds cycleplods, I'mm looking at
you).

--
Stephen Patterson :: :: http://patter.mine.nu/
GPG: B416F0DE :: Jabber:
"Don't be silly, Minnie. Who'd be walking round these cliffs with a gas oven?"

[David Lloyd]

On 25 Sep, 09:00, Tony Raven > wrote:
> In article >, usenet.is.worse@plusnet
> says...
>
> > Tom Crispin said the following on 24/09/2007 21:14:
>
> > > Or what about a policeman killed while walking...
>
> > Or what about an innocent member of the public killed by a police
> > driver? I wonder if they'll ban all police drivers from now on. Hmmm...
>
> They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
> without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
> cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
> some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
> and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.
>
> --
> Tony
>

Going back over the news reports, I haven't seen anything that says
how the accident actually happened. OK, I applaude GMP for taking
another look at the training of their officers on bikes, but would
training of the rider have helped in this instance? We don't know.
Perhaps better rider awareness needs to be built into the training of
lorry drivers.

David Lloyd (at work)

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:58:49 -0700 someone who may be David Lloyd
> wrote this:-

>> They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
>> without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
>> cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
>> some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
>> and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.
>
>Going back over the news reports, I haven't seen anything that says
>how the accident actually happened. OK, I applaude GMP for taking
>another look at the training of their officers on bikes, but would
>training of the rider have helped in this instance? We don't know.
>Perhaps better rider awareness needs to be built into the training of
>lorry drivers.

Indeed.

If a police officer is killed while in a car or walking would they
not send them out? If the answer to this question is no then they
have jerked their knee in relation to bikes.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[Marc]

David Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:58:49 -0700 someone who may be David Lloyd
> > wrote this:-
>
>>> They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
>>> without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
>>> cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
>>> some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
>>> and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.
>> Going back over the news reports, I haven't seen anything that says
>> how the accident actually happened. OK, I applaude GMP for taking
>> another look at the training of their officers on bikes, but would
>> training of the rider have helped in this instance? We don't know.
>> Perhaps better rider awareness needs to be built into the training of
>> lorry drivers.
>
> Indeed.
>
> If a police officer is killed while in a car or walking would they
> not send them out? If the answer to this question is no then they
> have jerked their knee in relation to bikes.
The diffrence is

The police could show that the officer had recieved training for
patrolling on foot or in a car...

[7@m3 G33k]

David Hansen wrote:
>
> Indeed.
>
> If a police officer is killed while in a car or walking would they
> not send them out? If the answer to this question is no then they
> have jerked their knee in relation to bikes.
>
>

No. Urban cycle plods (as opposed to 1960s country plod on a
sit-up-and-beg) are a relatively new thing, certainly compared to
foot/car plods. Inevitably police forces will still be learning about
the kind of training cycle plods require.

As for the influence of (a lack of) training on the fate of the PCSO
killed in the RTA: is it possible to tell from a news report? No, of
course not! Therefore GMP (probably with the assistance of the HSE as it
was a fatal accident at work) are investigating the matter and will
no-doubt have access to a great deal more evidence than said news report
with a view to improving the safety of it's employees.

This is not evidence of the great anti-cycling conspiracy or
anti-cycling ignorance.

Ian

[John Kane]

On Sep 25, 4:00 am, Tony Raven > wrote:
> In article >, usenet.is.worse@plusnet
> says...
>
> > Tom Crispin said the following on 24/09/2007 21:14:
>
> > > Or what about a policeman killed while walking...
>
> > Or what about an innocent member of the public killed by a police
> > driver? I wonder if they'll ban all police drivers from now on. Hmmm...
>
> They haven't said they will ban police cyclists, just not send them out
> without cycle training. Police drivers have driver training and police
> cyclists should have cycle training. It will be good for us too to have
> some police officers for a change that understand that using the roads
> and riding in the primary position is not be obstructive to traffic.
>
> --
> Tony
>
> " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
> Bertrand Russell

I took a CANBIKE course a few years ago and we had two local police
officers enrolled. They were going to be doing some community work and
would be using bicycles.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada