Bicycle Ambulance

[Tom Crispin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LTwxxMaiYg

[John Kane]

On Sep 26, 2:14 pm, Tom Crispin
> wrote:
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LTwxxMaiYg

Nice to see. I think I've heard of something similar at various
crowded venues such as fairs etc over here but not a formal regular
service.

OTOH 15 stone of kit?

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[soup]

John Kane wrote:

> OTOH 15 stone of kit?

15 stone? Were you watching a different video to me ? She (Nadia
Sawalaha (?) ) states "over 5 stone of kit"
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[John Kane]

On Sep 26, 2:45 pm, soup > wrote:
> John Kane wrote:
> > OTOH 15 stone of kit?
>
> 15 stone? Were you watching a different video to me ? She (Nadia
> Sawalaha (?) ) states "over 5 stone of kit"
> --
> 'S rioghal mo dhream
> Ciamar a tha sibhwww.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

Must have been the British accent !

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

[John Kane]

On Sep 26, 2:45 pm, soup > wrote:
> John Kane wrote:
> > OTOH 15 stone of kit?
>
> 15 stone? Were you watching a different video to me ? She (Nadia
> Sawalaha (?) ) states "over 5 stone of kit"
> --
> 'S rioghal mo dhream
> Ciamar a tha sibhwww.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

Actually it was a typo. Still 5 stone is a LOT of kit.

[soup]

John Kane wrote:

> Still 5 stone is a LOT of kit.

Conjecture :-
Mmm 5 stone = 70lbs Maybe someone said we have to "move" 70 lbs
meaning the bike as well and whoever wrote the script for Nadia has
taken that to mean 70lbs and the bike.

--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Duncan Smith]

On Sep 26, 8:37 pm, soup > wrote:
> John Kane wrote:
> > Still 5 stone is a LOT of kit.
>
> Conjecture :-
> Mmm 5 stone = 70lbs Maybe someone said we have to "move" 70 lbs
> meaning the bike as well and whoever wrote the script for Nadia has
> taken that to mean 70lbs and the bike.
>
> --
> 'S rioghal mo dhream
> Ciamar a tha sibhwww.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

Maybe they meant 5Kg - that's what my panniers normally way. Hope the
ambulance doesn't have to be dispatched to assist run-down cyclist
paramedic any time soon! :-)

[David Martin]

Last weeks killer hill in the comic was through the west end in London
by a cycle paramedic. He had to take a considerable amount of kit
(56kg springs to mind).

...d

[Coyoteboy]

Tom Crispin wrote:
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LTwxxMaiYg

Seems a bit mad if they dispatch a normal ambulance as well, plus they
only cover 5sq km? Thats an area only 2250mx2250m?! Doesnt seem a lot
when you look at the "quantity of manpower per sq km"?

[soup]

soup wrote:

> Conjecture :-
> Mmm 5 stone = 70lbs Maybe someone said we have to "move" 70 lbs
> meaning the bike as well and whoever wrote the script for Nadia has
> taken that to mean 70lbs and the bike.
>
Mmm looking a wee bit more into it 5 stone of kit plus the bike seems
reasonable.
Here is a photo of the kit they carry, that is a proper oxygen cylinder
and is *£%^!*% heavy.


http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/dsc05953.jpg
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[soup]

Coyoteboy wrote:

> Seems a bit mad if they dispatch a normal ambulance as well,

Think of them as really good first aiders with a really big first aid
box their job is to get there quickly and keep the casualty alive until
the ambulance gets there alternatively if (as usual) it is "just"
someone who has tripped or whatever, and that person does not require or
want hospital help, (I would imagine) they can contact the ambulance
crew and get them to abort.

> plus they only cover 5sq km? Thats an area only 2250mx2250m?! Doesnt
> seem a lot when you look at the "quantity of manpower per sq km"?

AIUI and going by this page :-
http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles1.htm
There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does not
seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km² is in central London).

--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Marc]

soup wrote:
> soup wrote:
>
>> Conjecture :-
>> Mmm 5 stone = 70lbs Maybe someone said we have to "move" 70 lbs
>> meaning the bike as well and whoever wrote the script for Nadia has
>> taken that to mean 70lbs and the bike.
>>
> Mmm looking a wee bit more into it 5 stone of kit plus the bike seems
> reasonable.
> Here is a photo of the kit they carry, that is a proper oxygen cylinder
> and is *£%^!*% heavy.
>
>
> http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/dsc05953.jpg

Where do they carry it? The grab bags obvioulsy go in the panniers, but
the bottle????

Couldn't they seal and use the frame much like some touring bikes
parrafin store?

[soup]

marc wrote:

> Where do they carry it? The grab bags obvioulsy go in the panniers, but
> the bottle????
>

No Idea (I live in Edinburgh 500 miles from London so have never seen
these bikes).

> Couldn't they seal and use the frame much like some touring bikes
> parrafin store?

Possibly some sort of Health and Safety issue that prohibits people from
sitting on pressurised gas containers. Also judging by the size of that
cylinder, the bike frame would be too small for the amount they have to
carry.

--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Coyoteboy]

soup wrote:
> Coyoteboy wrote:
>
>> Seems a bit mad if they dispatch a normal ambulance as well,
>
> Think of them as really good first aiders with a really big first aid
> box their job is to get there quickly and keep the casualty alive until
> the ambulance gets there alternatively if (as usual) it is "just"
> someone who has tripped or whatever, and that person does not require or
> want hospital help, (I would imagine) they can contact the ambulance
> crew and get them to abort.
>

True.

> > plus they only cover 5sq km? Thats an area only 2250mx2250m?! Doesnt
> > seem a lot when you look at the "quantity of manpower per sq km"?
>
> AIUI and going by this page :-
> http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles1.htm
> There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does not
> seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km² is in central London).
>

Its not 5km^2 though, its 5sq km, thats smaller than my local town
centre and from what I was told there are only 6 ambulance staff (3
crews) covering the whole town and its outlying areas (some 15x15km
area). So 4 in 2.25x2.25 is a high concentration of manpower. But then i
spose theres a high concentration of people too, it just seems excessive
on the face of it, especially when its already covered by normal ambulances!

[Coyoteboy]

Just seems a little bit like "making jobs", i mean ultimately it would
be a good idea to have someone stood on every street at 100m intervals
to relay info back to the control centre so no-one needed to dispatch
the cyclists or the ambulances too... :) How far do you go? Where can
justify having these additional resources? What measure do you use to
select?
The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to people
within the allotted response time.

[soup]

Coyoteboy wrote:
> soup wrote:
>> There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does
>> not seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km² is in central London).
> Its not 5km^2 though, its 5sq km, thats smaller than my local town
> centre

My bad. I meant 5 sq Kilometers, as I said at first, it was only in
the second instance I got it so terribly wrong. I (IMHO) still think
four people covering that area (with that density of population) is
reasonable even factoring in that there are "normal" ambulances as well .

Of course there will be the cost issue as well, one person on a
bike costs a lot less than two in a "proper" ambulance. How long before
someone comes on telly saying the bike paramedics are so successful four
more are going to be introduced, while quietly in the background two
"proper" ambulances are removed.


--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[soup]

Coyoteboy wrote:
> What measure do you use to
> select?

Cost with diminishing returns factored in.

> The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to people
> within the allotted response time.

Mm problems with the response time. Maybe full sized ambulances have
problems getting to "patients" within the alloted time due to the other
motorised traffic in central London.


--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Coyoteboy]

soup wrote:
> Coyoteboy wrote:
>> What measure do you use to select?
>
> Cost with diminishing returns factored in.
>
>> The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to
>> people within the allotted response time.
>
> Mm problems with the response time. Maybe full sized ambulances have
> problems getting to "patients" within the alloted time due to the other
> motorised traffic in central London.
>
>

Their % of 8min response times successful were at national standard
according to their data, doesnt seem to be a major problem.

[Coyoteboy]

soup wrote:
> Coyoteboy wrote:
>> soup wrote:
>>> There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does
>>> not seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km² is in central London).
>> Its not 5km^2 though, its 5sq km, thats smaller than my local town centre
>
> My bad. I meant 5 sq Kilometers, as I said at first, it was only in
> the second instance I got it so terribly wrong. I (IMHO) still think
> four people covering that area (with that density of population) is
reasonable even factoring in that there are "normal" ambulances as well .
Thats ok, im still reeling at the fact that you managed to put a
superscript in, ive not worked that out yet! :)

> Of course there will be the cost issue as well, one person on a bike
> costs a lot less than two in a "proper" ambulance. How long before
> someone comes on telly saying the bike paramedics are so successful four
> more are going to be introduced, while quietly in the background two
> "proper" ambulances are removed.

True. Not being on the cutting edge of the ambulance service im not
really qualified to express whether those are needed or not I guess.

[soup]

Coyoteboy wrote:


> ive not worked superscripts that out yet! :)

All programs > Accesories > Character map :)
--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Tom Crispin]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 06:59:21 -0000, Duncan Smith
> wrote:

>On Sep 26, 8:37 pm, soup > wrote:
>> John Kane wrote:
>> > Still 5 stone is a LOT of kit.
>>
>> Conjecture :-
>> Mmm 5 stone = 70lbs Maybe someone said we have to "move" 70 lbs
>> meaning the bike as well and whoever wrote the script for Nadia has
>> taken that to mean 70lbs and the bike.
>>
>> --
>> 'S rioghal mo dhream
>> Ciamar a tha sibhwww.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk
>
>Maybe they meant 5Kg - that's what my panniers normally way. Hope the
>ambulance doesn't have to be dispatched to assist run-down cyclist
>paramedic any time soon! :-)

As luck would have it, I met today a cycling paramedic and a cycling
policeman. I didn't get to speak with the cycling paramedic, but
according to the City of London policeman, who tried riding the
paramedic's bike, "they are bloody heavy".

[Tom Crispin]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 11:56:25 +0100, Coyoteboy
> wrote:

>Just seems a little bit like "making jobs", i mean ultimately it would
>be a good idea to have someone stood on every street at 100m intervals
>to relay info back to the control centre so no-one needed to dispatch
>the cyclists or the ambulances too... :) How far do you go? Where can
>justify having these additional resources? What measure do you use to
>select?
>The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to people
>within the allotted response time.

There's also the positive image of cyclists and cycling bike
ambulances promotes. I guess that's the main reason for TfL
sponsoring the bike paramedics.

[John Kane]

On Sep 27, 4:52 am, Coyoteboy > wrote:
> Tom Crispin wrote:
> >www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LTwxxMaiYg
>
> Seems a bit mad if they dispatch a normal ambulance as well, plus they
> only cover 5sq km? Thats an area only 2250mx2250m?! Doesnt seem a lot
> when you look at the "quantity of manpower per sq km"?

I don't know London (UK that is) but what is the mean density during
working hours in that area? It may be the quantity of manpower per
persons in the district.

I used to live near a large government office complex in Hull Québec
and they seemed to have an ambulance permanently stationed there. I
imagine the working population would have been in the several
thousands.

[Coyoteboy]

soup wrote:
> Coyoteboy wrote:
>
>
>> ive not worked superscripts that out yet! :)
>
> All programs > Accesories > Character map :)

I'm on Linux. Like everything Linuxy - its bloody hard to find what you
want, but when you do it works like a dream, flawlessly and forever. And
usually from the commandline :)

[Roger Merriman]

Coyoteboy > wrote:

> soup wrote:
> > Coyoteboy wrote:
> >> soup wrote:
> >>> There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does
> >>> not seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km" is in central London).
> >> Its not 5km^2 though, its 5sq km, thats smaller than my local town centre
> >
> > My bad. I meant 5 sq Kilometers, as I said at first, it was only in
> > the second instance I got it so terribly wrong. I (IMHO) still think
> > four people covering that area (with that density of population) is
> reasonable even factoring in that there are "normal" ambulances as well .
> Thats ok, im still reeling at the fact that you managed to put a
> superscript in, ive not worked that out yet! :)
>
> > Of course there will be the cost issue as well, one person on a bike
> > costs a lot less than two in a "proper" ambulance. How long before
> > someone comes on telly saying the bike paramedics are so successful four
> > more are going to be introduced, while quietly in the background two
> > "proper" ambulances are removed.
>
> True. Not being on the cutting edge of the ambulance service im not
> really qualified to express whether those are needed or not I guess.

they have had motorbike paramedics at least in urban places, nr where my
folks are the ambulances often wait at the top of the valley, as it
takes them a fair old time to climb that, being heavy vans.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

[Brendan Halpin]

Coyoteboy > writes:

> soup wrote:
>> Coyoteboy wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ive not worked superscripts that out yet! :)
>>
>> All programs > Accesories > Character map :)
>
> I'm on Linux.

AltGr-2

B
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

[Coyoteboy]

Brendan Halpin wrote:
> Coyoteboy > writes:
>
>> soup wrote:
>>> Coyoteboy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> ive not worked superscripts that out yet! :)
>>> All programs > Accesories > Character map :)
>> I'm on Linux.
>
> AltGr-2
>
> B

WOO! Genius!³ I didnt even know that key worked for anything :) ¹²½ :)
Actually thats a lie, i knew it did some special characters, ive just
never experimented with them. Thats me entertained for a few weeks :)
I'll be throwing in ¾'s left right and centre even when not needed lol.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 27, 10:58 am, soup > wrote:
> Coyoteboy wrote:
> > Seems a bit mad if they dispatch a normal ambulance as well,
>
> Think of them as really good first aiders with a really big first aid
> box their job is to get there quickly and keep the casualty alive until
> the ambulance gets there alternatively if (as usual) it is "just"
> someone who has tripped or whatever, and that person does not require or
> want hospital help, (I would imagine) they can contact the ambulance
> crew and get them to abort.
>
> > plus they only cover 5sq km? Thats an area only 2250mx2250m?! Doesnt
> > seem a lot when you look at the "quantity of manpower per sq km"?
>
> AIUI and going by this page :-http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/ambulance/ambcycles1.htm
> There are four cyclists involved, four people in 5sq kilometers does not
> seem a lot to me (especially when that 5 Km² is in central London).
>

One of these turned up outside our local Tesco in Aylesbury when
someone had a seizure outside the store.

I assume they were based locally and didn't cycle all the way up the
A41!

MBQ

[Ben Micklem]

in article om,
at wrote on 28/9/07 13:24:

> One of these turned up outside our local Tesco in Aylesbury when
> someone had a seizure outside the store.
>
> I assume they were based locally and didn't cycle all the way up the
> A41!
>
> MBQ

I saw another outside the Covered Market in Oxford this lunchtime.

Ben

[soup]

Ben Micklem wrote:

> wrote
>> One of these turned up outside our local Tesco in Aylesbury when
>> someone had a seizure outside the store.
> I saw another outside the Covered Market in Oxford this lunchtime.

"They" quite possibly are all over the place but that video relates to
those in London.


--
'S rioghal mo dhream
Ciamar a tha sibh
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Coyoteboy
') wrote:

> Just seems a little bit like "making jobs", i mean ultimately it would
> be a good idea to have someone stood on every street at 100m intervals
> to relay info back to the control centre so no-one needed to dispatch
> the cyclists or the ambulances too... :) How far do you go? Where can
> justify having these additional resources? What measure do you use to
> select?
> The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to people
> within the allotted response time.

The City of London has the highest daytime population density of anywhere
in Britain. The traffic is very congested most of the time, and motor
traffic is often a lot slower than bicycle traffic.

The man who dies of a heart attack while the ambulance is stuck in traffic
on its way to him doesn't think this is 'making jobs'. For a lot of types
of severe medical emergency, it's the time to start of qualified treatment
which is the difference between life and death, so if these cyclists can
reduce the average time between a 999 call and a trained, well equipped
paramedic arriving on the scene by only a few seconds they're going to
save a lot o lives every year.

One of them could be yours.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
>
> The City of London has the highest daytime population density of anywhere
> in Britain. The traffic is very congested most of the time, and motor
> traffic is often a lot slower than bicycle traffic.
>

I take it you haven't experienced Congestion Charged London then.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Ben C]

On 2007-09-28, Simon Brooke > wrote:
> in message >, Coyoteboy
> ') wrote:
>
>> Just seems a little bit like "making jobs", i mean ultimately it would
>> be a good idea to have someone stood on every street at 100m intervals
>> to relay info back to the control centre so no-one needed to dispatch
>> the cyclists or the ambulances too... :) How far do you go? Where can
>> justify having these additional resources? What measure do you use to
>> select?
>> The only reason I can see for having them is if they cant get to people
>> within the allotted response time.
>
> The City of London has the highest daytime population density of anywhere
> in Britain. The traffic is very congested most of the time, and motor
> traffic is often a lot slower than bicycle traffic.
>
> The man who dies of a heart attack while the ambulance is stuck in traffic
> on its way to him doesn't think this is 'making jobs'. For a lot of types
> of severe medical emergency, it's the time to start of qualified treatment
> which is the difference between life and death, so if these cyclists can
> reduce the average time between a 999 call and a trained, well equipped
> paramedic arriving on the scene by only a few seconds they're going to
> save a lot o lives every year.

Right. In particular, they probably have a defibrillator on the bike. An
awful lot of people die of heart attacks but might come back to life
again if you can jump start them within 5 or 10 minutes. But wait 20 and
they stay dead.

Keeping a defibrillator in the office is also a good idea. You can get
electronic ones these days that require only minimal training to operate.

Anyway are these NHS ambulance bikes or St John's Ambulance? The latter
I thought were volunteers so it's hardly "making jobs".

[Tom Crispin]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:42 -0500, Ben C > wrote:

>Anyway are these NHS ambulance bikes or St John's Ambulance? The latter
>I thought were volunteers so it's hardly "making jobs".

They are the London Ambulance Service, the only London-wide NHS Trust.

[MJ Ray]

Simon Brooke > wrote: [..]
> The man who dies of a heart attack while the ambulance is stuck in traffic
> on its way to him doesn't think this is 'making jobs'. [...]

The man who dies doesn't think anything much any more, in fact.

Sorry... bicycle ambulances are a good idea in busy city centres, but the
above seemed a really tasteless argument for them.
--
MJ Ray http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html tel:+44-844-4437-237 -