Locks

[Jonathan Campbell]

I have bike locks from Aldi (knobbly with plastic coating) and Lidl
(longish steel cable). I noticed posters to this n.g. dismissing Aldi locks.

They seemed okay for securing my bikes in a closed garage, but now that
I have started commuting by bike and don't have a secure parking place,
I may need better.

I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal, or do I need to go
for a brand name? Would I get a decent one in Halfords? (I normally have
a poor view of Halfords, but a new one has opened here recently and it
would be handy.)

What is the weakness of the Aldi locks? Pickability or cutability?

TIA,

Jon C.

[Pete Biggs]

Jonathan Campbell wrote:

> I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal,

Certainly not. Many on the market have been tested by cycle magazines using
lock-breaking experts, and some can be broken much more quickly than others.
Brute force is the usual method, rather than picking the lock.

Mid to high price Kryptonite locks tend to be relatively OK. Hopefully
other posters will recommend some cheaper ones that are also OK.

Still, don't leave a good bike left unattended in a dodgy area for a long
time. Otherwise you'll have bits nicked off it. This is why such crappy
bikes are popular for commuting.

~PB

[Jonathan Campbell]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Jonathan Campbell wrote:
>
>> I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal,
>
> Certainly not. Many on the market have been tested by cycle magazines using
> lock-breaking experts, and some can be broken much more quickly than others.
> Brute force is the usual method, rather than picking the lock.
>
> Mid to high price Kryptonite locks tend to be relatively OK. Hopefully
> other posters will recommend some cheaper ones that are also OK.
>
> Still, don't leave a good bike left unattended in a dodgy area for a long
> time. Otherwise you'll have bits nicked off it. This is why such crappy
> bikes are popular for commuting.
>

Thanks. I forgot to mention, I have a length of (about 8-mm guage?)
chain along with a decent lock that I used to use for my car steering
wheel. Not too portable, but I could leave it at the hitching post.

Any use?

I suppose any £1,200 bike is vulnerable anywhere; my commute is 21
miles, so I'm keen to use the best bike available. Also, car and bike
theft would be relatively uncommon here (Donegal Ireland), but I suppose
it takes only one thief.

Thinking aloud ... maybe if I have a look around and ask nicely, I can
get it indoors somewhere, where it will be both locked and out of sight.

Best regards,

Jon C.

[Simon Brooke]

in message >, Jonathan Campbell
') wrote:

> Pete Biggs wrote:
>> Jonathan Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal,
>>
>> Certainly not. Many on the market have been tested by cycle magazines
>> using lock-breaking experts, and some can be broken much more quickly
>> than others. Brute force is the usual method, rather than picking the
>> lock.
>>
>> Mid to high price Kryptonite locks tend to be relatively OK. Hopefully
>> other posters will recommend some cheaper ones that are also OK.
>>
>> Still, don't leave a good bike left unattended in a dodgy area for a
>> long
>> time. Otherwise you'll have bits nicked off it. This is why such
>> crappy bikes are popular for commuting.
>>
>
> Thanks. I forgot to mention, I have a length of (about 8-mm guage?)
> chain along with a decent lock that I used to use for my car steering
> wheel. Not too portable, but I could leave it at the hitching post.
>
> Any use?
>
> I suppose any £1,200 bike is vulnerable anywhere; my commute is 21
> miles, so I'm keen to use the best bike available. Also, car and bike
> theft would be relatively uncommon here (Donegal Ireland), but I suppose
> it takes only one thief.
>
> Thinking aloud ... maybe if I have a look around and ask nicely, I can
> get it indoors somewhere, where it will be both locked and out of sight.

My bike gets left during the day (locked, but not with a specially good
lock) in the office stairwell. Entrance to the building is by key-code, so
it isn't a place where people can easily wander in off the street. The
first week I left it there, I left a notice on it saying who I was and
what room/extension I was in, and if it was bothering anyone to let me
know. No-one responded and the security and estates people seem happy.
There isn't a good bike shed on site, but I'm not sure how happy I'd be to
leave the bike in a bike shed anyway.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
[ Disclaimer: This is a work displacement exercise. Please feel free ]
[ to reply either on or off group. Expect lengthy replies until the ]
[ deadline has passed. Thank-you for your cooperation. ]

[Cheeky[_2_]]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:18:05 GMT, Jonathan Campbell
> wrote:

>I have bike locks from Aldi (knobbly with plastic coating) and Lidl
>(longish steel cable). I noticed posters to this n.g. dismissing Aldi locks.
>
>They seemed okay for securing my bikes in a closed garage, but now that
>I have started commuting by bike and don't have a secure parking place,
>I may need better.
>
>I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal, or do I need to go
>for a brand name? Would I get a decent one in Halfords? (I normally have
>a poor view of Halfords, but a new one has opened here recently and it
>would be handy.)
>
>What is the weakness of the Aldi locks? Pickability or cutability?

I'd imagine your cheapo locks will offer virtually no resistance to a
pair of bolt cutters. You need a d-lock that's made of toughened
steel. If I had a £1200 I'd be looking at a gold-rated lock (as might
your insurer).

As usual Sheldon Brown has some tips:

http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

[wafflycat]

>
> My bike gets left during the day (locked, but not with a specially good
> lock) in the office stairwell. Entrance to the building is by key-code, so
> it isn't a place where people can easily wander in off the street. The
> first week I left it there, I left a notice on it saying who I was and
> what room/extension I was in, and if it was bothering anyone to let me
> know. No-one responded and the security and estates people seem happy.
> There isn't a good bike shed on site, but I'm not sure how happy I'd be to
> leave the bike in a bike shed anyway.
>

Depends upon the bike shed I think. Offspring now at university. Where he
keeps his bike is great, bearing in mind that no-where is guaranteed
theft-free. Big bike shed - completely covered all sides & roof. Entrance by
key-code and key-code is only given to those who have permission to keep
their bikes in said secure shed. In the shed are sheffield stands and his
bikes are locked to the stands by means of D-locks and cable locks. The bike
shed is right outside the front door of his hall of residence and he can see
it from his room window.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 7, 10:24 pm, Cheeky > wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:18:05 GMT, Jonathan Campbell
>
> > wrote:
> >I have bike locks from Aldi (knobbly with plastic coating) and Lidl
> >(longish steel cable). I noticed posters to this n.g. dismissing Aldi locks.
>
> >They seemed okay for securing my bikes in a closed garage, but now that
> >I have started commuting by bike and don't have a secure parking place,
> >I may need better.
>
> >I see D style locks mentioned. Are they all equal, or do I need to go
> >for a brand name? Would I get a decent one in Halfords? (I normally have
> >a poor view of Halfords, but a new one has opened here recently and it
> >would be handy.)
>
> >What is the weakness of the Aldi locks? Pickability or cutability?
>
> I'd imagine your cheapo locks will offer virtually no resistance to a
> pair of bolt cutters. You need a d-lock that's made of toughened
> steel. If I had a £1200 I'd be looking at a gold-rated lock (as might
> your insurer).
>
> As usual Sheldon Brown has some tips:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

Any lock with an exterior size of +22mm will be difficult to cut with
bolt croppers. The key snapped in my lock, 22mm steel rollers around
a central cable, light but strong, so that it would not open and you
would not believe the amount of trouble I had finding bolt croppers
that opened far enough to cut it at the local hire shops. I ended up
with a pair about four feet long. Most bike thieves use very small
12" sets for the cheaper cable locks.

Sniper8052

[Pete Biggs]

wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:24 pm, Cheeky > wrote:

>> I'd imagine your cheapo locks will offer virtually no resistance to a
>> pair of bolt cutters. You need a d-lock that's made of toughened
>> steel. If I had a £1200 I'd be looking at a gold-rated lock (as might
>> your insurer).
>>
>> As usual Sheldon Brown has some tips:
>>
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html
>
> Any lock with an exterior size of +22mm will be difficult to cut with
> bolt croppers. The key snapped in my lock, 22mm steel rollers around
> a central cable, light but strong, so that it would not open and you
> would not believe the amount of trouble I had finding bolt croppers
> that opened far enough to cut it at the local hire shops. I ended up
> with a pair about four feet long. Most bike thieves use very small
> 12" sets for the cheaper cable locks.

Theives don't just use bolt croppers. A large-diameter hardened steel lock
won't /necessarily/ stand up to what they do for more than a few seconds, so
it's worth doing some research on the make and model of lock.

~PB

[Clive George]

> wrote in message
oups.com...

>Any lock with an exterior size of +22mm will be difficult to cut with
>bolt croppers. The key snapped in my lock, 22mm steel rollers around
>a central cable, light but strong, so that it would not open and you
>would not believe the amount of trouble I had finding bolt croppers
>that opened far enough to cut it at the local hire shops.

I had occasion to cut one of those, and yes, it was more of a pain than a
simple D-lock for the tools I had available. I believe I did the main bit
with a grinding disk on a drill. Portable angle-grinder would be the
equivalent for serious thieves, but there's nothing much you can do about
that.

cheers,
clive

[[email protected]]

On Oct 8, 12:28 pm, "Pete Biggs"
<p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitbiggs. tc> wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 10:24 pm, Cheeky > wrote:
> >> I'd imagine your cheapo locks will offer virtually no resistance to a
> >> pair of bolt cutters. You need a d-lock that's made of toughened
> >> steel. If I had a £1200 I'd be looking at a gold-rated lock (as might
> >> your insurer).
>
> >> As usual Sheldon Brown has some tips:
>
> >>http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html
>
> > Any lock with an exterior size of +22mm will be difficult to cut with
> > bolt croppers. The key snapped in my lock, 22mm steel rollers around
> > a central cable, light but strong, so that it would not open and you
> > would not believe the amount of trouble I had finding bolt croppers
> > that opened far enough to cut it at the local hire shops. I ended up
> > with a pair about four feet long. Most bike thieves use very small
> > 12" sets for the cheaper cable locks.
>
> Theives don't just use bolt croppers. A large-diameter hardened steel lock
> won't /necessarily/ stand up to what they do for more than a few seconds, so
> it's worth doing some research on the make and model of lock.
>
> ~PB

Favorite tools in my experience are

1) Small bolt croppers
2) Screwdrivers
3) Wire cutters
4) Biro
5) Scissor jack
6) Portable angle grinder

In the order I have seen them most often

Sniper8052

[Marc]

wrote:
> On Oct 8, 12:28 pm, "Pete Biggs"
> <p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitbiggs. tc> wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Oct 7, 10:24 pm, Cheeky > wrote:
>>>> I'd imagine your cheapo locks will offer virtually no resistance to a
>>>> pair of bolt cutters. You need a d-lock that's made of toughened
>>>> steel. If I had a £1200 I'd be looking at a gold-rated lock (as might
>>>> your insurer).
>>>> As usual Sheldon Brown has some tips:
>>>> http://sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html
>>> Any lock with an exterior size of +22mm will be difficult to cut with
>>> bolt croppers. The key snapped in my lock, 22mm steel rollers around
>>> a central cable, light but strong, so that it would not open and you
>>> would not believe the amount of trouble I had finding bolt croppers
>>> that opened far enough to cut it at the local hire shops. I ended up
>>> with a pair about four feet long. Most bike thieves use very small
>>> 12" sets for the cheaper cable locks.
>> Theives don't just use bolt croppers. A large-diameter hardened steel lock
>> won't /necessarily/ stand up to what they do for more than a few seconds, so
>> it's worth doing some research on the make and model of lock.
>>
>> ~PB
>
> Favorite tools in my experience are
>
> 1) Small bolt croppers
> 2) Screwdrivers
> 3) Wire cutters
> 4) Biro
> 5) Scissor jack
> 6) Portable angle grinder
>
> In the order I have seen them most often

I can see all the others, but a Biro?

[Martin Dann]

marc wrote:
> wrote:

>> Favorite tools in my experience are
>>
>> 1) Small bolt croppers
>> 2) Screwdrivers
>> 3) Wire cutters
>> 4) Biro
>> 5) Scissor jack
>> 6) Portable angle grinder

Is carrying any of these without good reason an arrestable offence for
being equipped for theft (apart from 4)?


>> In the order I have seen them most often
>
> I can see all the others, but a Biro?

"The pen is mightier than the U-lock"
http://web.archive.org/web/20050308163009/http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4637

[Pete Biggs]

marc wrote:
> wrote:
>> Favorite tools in my experience are
>>
>> 1) Small bolt croppers
>> 2) Screwdrivers
>> 3) Wire cutters
>> 4) Biro
>> 5) Scissor jack
>> 6) Portable angle grinder
>>
>> In the order I have seen them most often
>
> I can see all the others, but a Biro?

Plastic tubes can work as keys for circular locks like old Kryptonites used,
apparently. I couldn't get it to work when I tested mine, though I got a
new lock for good measure anyway.

~PB

[Jonathan Campbell]

Thanks everyone; very informative. I even dusted off the 'old' bike for
my ride to work today.

And thanks for the mention of insurance --- what insurance? :)

In addition to a stronger lock, I think that an indoors and out of sight
location will have to be found; my place of employment is a university
(institute of technology), so I should be able to find somewhere.

There are bike stands in open view at the front of the building. I park
my bike at the back door, in a semi-covered place designated as a
smoking area. So there are people about most of the time. Unlike the
main bike stands, quite a small proportion of the college population
would ever pass by. However, as I said, it will take only one thief to
spot the value of my bike. Am I right in assuming that bike thieves are
unlikely to read u.r.c.?

My current location is reasonably free of theft and quite easy going
about security in an almost olde worlde way and so I have become rather
relaxed compared to when I lived in large cities. I have a student from
a faraway country and he reckons that some day a few of his compatriots
will arrive and the place will be stripped as if by locusts. Not that we
actually need foreigners to teach us about thieving.

There was a story told about someone in our college who left a jacket on
the back of a canteen chair; it was assumed lost along with the wallet
and other pocket contents. However, the owner went for lunch a week
later, to the same table, and there was the jacket and contents ---
untouched.

Best regards,

Jon C.

[Graeme Dods]

On Oct 8, 11:19 pm, marc > wrote:
>
> I can see all the others, but a Biro?

Or if you're stuck for a Biro of the right size (it has to be the same
diameter as the key) then I've found that a rolled up business card
works, or at least it did on one of those Kensington locks you get for
laptops and they use a very similar lock. This caused my employer (big
computer manufacturer) to do a serious rethink of how they secured
laptops at the exhibitions/conferences. They changed to combination
Kensington locks. Those took no tools to open, but it did take a lot
longer (about 5 minutes).

Just in case you're wondering, no I'm not a thief of any kind, I
became interested in the security (or lack thereof) provided by
various locks when I first read of the Kryptonite problem. The
worrying thing is that it looks like about 99% of the locks out there
(including those securing your home) can be overcome very quickly by
anyone who feels the need.

Graeme

[POHB]

On 8 Oct, 12:28, "Pete Biggs"
<p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitbiggs. tc> wrote:
> Theives don't just use bolt croppers. A large-diameter hardened steel lock
> won't /necessarily/ stand up to what they do for more than a few seconds, so
> it's worth doing some research on the make and model of lock.

There's the remains of a bike that I pass on my homeward commute. It
had been locked to some railings with a D lock that looks just like
the one I bought from Wilkinsons for about 3 quid. Over the days I
saw the usual damage from wheel stamping, then the wheels went
completely. Last time I saw it I was very impressed as someone had
clearly tried to remove the frame from the railings by picking it up
and twisting. The two arms of the shackle of the lock were twisted
around each other 360 degrees but it was still in one piece and the
locking mechanism hadn't popped.

[Ekul Namsob]

mb > wrote:

> marc wrote:
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 1) Small bolt croppers
> > > 2) Screwdrivers
> > > 3) Wire cutters
> > > 4) Biro
> > > 5) Scissor jack
> > > 6) Portable angle grinder
> > >
> > > In the order I have seen them most often
> >
> > I can see all the others, but a Biro?
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0hsM88Wx8QQ
> Kryptonite recalled all their susceptible locks because of it, others
> may be out there.

Do you know how old the relevant locks are? One of my bikes is routinely
secured with a Kryptonite lock and I'm now concerned.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

[Pete Biggs]

Ekul Namsob wrote:

> Do you know how old the relevant locks are? One of my bikes is
> routinely secured with a Kryptonite lock and I'm now concerned.

Your lock will be the relevant type if the key is tubular.

~PB

[Ekul Namsob]

Pete Biggs > wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
>
> > Do you know how old the relevant locks are? One of my bikes is
> > routinely secured with a Kryptonite lock and I'm now concerned.
>
> Your lock will be the relevant type if the key is tubular.

Ah.

Having looked on their website I cannot find any details of the recall.
As the lock in question is several years old, would it be covered
anyway?

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

[Ekul Namsob]

Pete Biggs > wrote:

> Ekul Namsob wrote:
>
> > Do you know how old the relevant locks are? One of my bikes is
> > routinely secured with a Kryptonite lock and I'm now concerned.
>
> Your lock will be the relevant type if the key is tubular.

Ah.

I've just found the following on their website:

"Kryptonite offered the Voluntary Lock Exchange Program for over a year
and replaced more than 400,000 locks worldwide for free. However, we are
no longer taking new registration for this program."

Drat. It looks as though I need to buy a new lock.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

[Pete Biggs]

Ekul Namsob wrote:

> I've just found the following on their website:
>
> "Kryptonite offered the Voluntary Lock Exchange Program for over a
> year and replaced more than 400,000 locks worldwide for free.
> However, we are no longer taking new registration for this program."
>
> Drat. It looks as though I need to buy a new lock.

It wasn't unconditional anyway. They weren't replacing very old ones, or
you needed the receipt or something like that - because I couldn't get mine
replaced.

Still, 400,000 is an incredible number. Amazing that Kryptonite is still in
business!

~PB

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
>
> It wasn't unconditional anyway. They weren't replacing very old ones, or
> you needed the receipt or something like that - because I couldn't get mine
> replaced.
>

Mine was replaced, no questions, no receipt. Just took it to a FedEx
depot with details they provided for free collection and then a few
weeks later the new one arrived at home. At the time it was 5-7 years
old.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[Pete Biggs]

Tony Raven wrote:

>> It wasn't unconditional anyway. They weren't replacing very old
>> ones, or you needed the receipt or something like that - because I
>> couldn't get mine replaced.
>
> Mine was replaced, no questions, no receipt. Just took it to a FedEx
> depot with details they provided for free collection and then a few
> weeks later the new one arrived at home. At the time it was 5-7 years
> old.

Mine was older than that and I wasn't officially entitled to a replacement
for some reason or other. I made the mistake of assuming Kryptonite would
follow their own rules!

~PB

[David Damerell]

Quoting Ekul Namsob >:
>"Kryptonite offered the Voluntary Lock Exchange Program for over a year
>and replaced more than 400,000 locks worldwide for free. However, we are
>no longer taking new registration for this program."
>Drat. It looks as though I need to buy a new lock.

You could try getting ****y with the Sale of Goods Act. Manifestly not fit
for purpose.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is First Potmos, October.

[Marc]

David Damerell wrote:
> Quoting Ekul Namsob >:
>> "Kryptonite offered the Voluntary Lock Exchange Program for over a year
>> and replaced more than 400,000 locks worldwide for free. However, we are
>> no longer taking new registration for this program."
>> Drat. It looks as though I need to buy a new lock.
>
> You could try getting ****y with the Sale of Goods Act. Manifestly not fit
> for purpose.


Surely it was fit for purpose when it was sold? Just becaseu someone
later invents a new way of disabling the lock later doesn't change that?

[Ekul Namsob]

David Damerell > wrote:

> Quoting Ekul Namsob >:
> >"Kryptonite offered the Voluntary Lock Exchange Program for over a year
> >and replaced more than 400,000 locks worldwide for free. However, we are
> >no longer taking new registration for this program."
> >Drat. It looks as though I need to buy a new lock.
>
> You could try getting ****y with the Sale of Goods Act. Manifestly not fit
> for purpose.

I could try. However, that act covers my contract with the retailer and
I've now had the lock so long that I couldn't honestly claim to know
where I bought the lock.

I'll just put it down to 'one of those things'.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

[Tony Raven[_2_]]

In article >,
says...
>
> Surely it was fit for purpose when it was sold? Just becaseu someone
> later invents a new way of disabling the lock later doesn't change that?
>

There was evidence at the time it surfaced that the problem had been
known 12yrs before the infamous bic video.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

[POHB]

On 9 Oct, 08:45, POHB > wrote:
> There's the remains of a bike that I pass on my homeward commute. It
> had been locked to some railings with a D lock that looks just like
> the one I bought fromWilkinsonsfor about 3 quid. Over the days I
> saw the usual damage from wheel stamping, then the wheels went
> completely. Last time I saw it I was very impressed as someone had
> clearly tried to remove the frame from the railings by picking it up
> and twisting. The two arms of the shackle of the lock were twisted
> around each other 360 degrees but it was still in one piece and the
> locking mechanism hadn't popped.

Update for anyone who cares. The bike has now gone but the lock is
still there. Presumably the council found it easier to cut the frame
than the lock. I'm even more impressed.