Recumbent OUCH!

[Rex Kerr]

A coworker has a SWB USS recumbent in the office... it's longer than
the wall between his cube and the neighboring cube. A few minutes ago I
was there talking about some issue and when I turn to leave I hit the
extended chainring with my knee. My "catch the falling bike!" instinct
kicks in and I go to grab it and drive a chainring tooth deep into the
soft tissue between my thumb and forefinger.

OUCH! Now blood is dripping all over!!

See, if it'd been a DF bike that wouldn't have happened! First, it
would have fit in the space provided like the dozens of other bikes
around here, and second the chainring would have been in a safer location!!!

Just trolling... :-)

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Former RANS V-Rex rider Rex Kerr wrote:
> A coworker has a SWB USS recumbent in the office... it's longer than
> the wall between his cube and the neighboring cube. A few minutes ago I
> was there talking about some issue and when I turn to leave I hit the
> extended chainring with my knee. My "catch the falling bike!" instinct
> kicks in and I go to grab it and drive a chainring tooth deep into the
> soft tissue between my thumb and forefinger.
>
> OUCH! Now blood is dripping all over!!
>
> See, if it'd been a DF bike that wouldn't have happened! First, it
> would have fit in the space provided like the dozens of other bikes
> around here, and second the chainring would have been in a safer
> location!!!
>
> Just trolling... :-)

You are being punished by the Gods of RANS for your loss of faith.

The exposed chain wheels are there to punish the clumsy. They also serve
to shift the advantage from pedestrian to cyclist in a collision (the
pedestrian almost always wins in an upright bicycle to pedestrian
collision).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

[Rex Kerr]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> You are being punished by the Gods of RANS for your loss of faith.

Man, good memory. Yeah, I dabbled for a number of years, but I'm now
recumbent free.

That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >, Rex Kerr > wrote:

> Tom Sherman wrote:
> > You are being punished by the Gods of RANS for your loss of faith.
>
> Man, good memory. Yeah, I dabbled for a number of years, but I'm now
> recumbent free.
>
> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!

What drove your apostasy?

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

[Just A User]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Former RANS V-Rex rider Rex Kerr wrote:
>> A coworker has a SWB USS recumbent in the office... it's longer than
>> the wall between his cube and the neighboring cube. A few minutes ago
>> I was there talking about some issue and when I turn to leave I hit
>> the extended chainring with my knee. My "catch the falling bike!"
>> instinct kicks in and I go to grab it and drive a chainring tooth deep
>> into the soft tissue between my thumb and forefinger.
>>
>> OUCH! Now blood is dripping all over!!
>>
>> See, if it'd been a DF bike that wouldn't have happened! First, it
>> would have fit in the space provided like the dozens of other bikes
>> around here, and second the chainring would have been in a safer
>> location!!!
>>
>> Just trolling... :-)
>
> You are being punished by the Gods of RANS for your loss of faith.
>
> The exposed chain wheels are there to punish the clumsy. They also serve
> to shift the advantage from pedestrian to cyclist in a collision (the
> pedestrian almost always wins in an upright bicycle to pedestrian
> collision).
>
The Gods of RANS have a funny way of punishing people.
About the chainring sticking out. A df wheel sticks out a similar
distance as the chainrings on a SWB recumbent.

[Rex Kerr]

> The Gods of RANS have a funny way of punishing people.
> About the chainring sticking out. A df wheel sticks out a similar
> distance as the chainrings on a SWB recumbent.

Nope, I owned a recumbent, and it most definitely was longer than my DF
bikes. Also, the wheels on my bikes tend to not be as sharp as a
chainring. :-)

PS: Why the crosspost? Mine was in fun, but crossposting to the
recumbent group is just asking for a flamewar!

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Former V-Rex Owner Rex Kerr wrote:
>> The Gods of RANS have a funny way of punishing people.
>> About the chainring sticking out. A df wheel sticks out a similar
>> distance as the chainrings on a SWB recumbent.
>
> Nope, I owned a recumbent, and it most definitely was longer than my DF
> bikes. Also, the wheels on my bikes tend to not be as sharp as a
> chainring. :-)

Chain guards that cover the chainrings from approximately 12 o'clock to
6 o'clock (clockwise, looking at the drive side) are commercially
available for SWB recumbents, as long as the tooth count is not too large.

> PS: Why the crosspost? Mine was in fun, but crossposting to the
> recumbent group is just asking for a flamewar!

The subject was on-topic to more than one group. Furthermore, discussion
is fun. Usenet should not be boring.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

[Rex Kerr]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>
> What drove your apostasy?

The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find
them to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others
may disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.

[Edward Dolan]

"Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
...
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
>>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>>
>> What drove your apostasy?
>
> The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find them
> to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others may
> disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.

Rex Kerr must have an iron ass. I have never heard of anyone who thought it
was more comfy to sit on a saddle than a proper seat. However, the thought
also occurs to me that he is most likely insane. I wonder ... does he also
sit on a saddle when he is at home looking at TV? If that is the case, then
I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
bathroom.

By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
bicycles by the recumbent community.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Mr. Ed Dolan the Grate wrote:
> ...
> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
> bicycles by the recumbent community.
>
DF = diamond frame. Diamond frames are a subset of all upright bicycles,
since all upright bicycles are, of course, not diamond frames.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> Mr. Ed Dolan the Great wrote:
>> ...
>> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
>> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
>> bicycles by the recumbent community.
> >
> DF = diamond frame. Diamond frames are a subset of all upright bicycles,
> since all upright bicycles are, of course, not diamond frames.

I don't think 'diamond frame' is a very good term for an upright bicycle. I
think 'upright' is a far better term since it describes how you are seated
on the bike. That is what matters, not how the bike is constructed.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Wilson Warmouth[_12_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
news:KuudnSBI1YrJsRHanZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>
>
> I don't think 'diamond frame' is a very good term for an upright bicycle.
> I think 'upright' is a far better term since it describes how you are
> seated on the bike. That is what matters, not how the bike is constructed.
>

I've done my best to explain to the Great Saint that one does not sit
upright on an upright bicycle seat if one is to be comfortable on an upright
bicycle. Is it possible that a Great Saint could be lacking cognitive
ability?

[Edward Dolan]

"Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> news:KuudnSBI1YrJsRHanZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>
>>
>> I don't think 'diamond frame' is a very good term for an upright bicycle.
>> I think 'upright' is a far better term since it describes how you are
>> seated on the bike. That is what matters, not how the bike is
>> constructed.
>>
>
> I've done my best to explain to the Great Saint that one does not sit
> upright on an upright bicycle seat if one is to be comfortable on an
> upright bicycle. Is it possible that a Great Saint could be lacking
> cognitive ability?

Unless you posted to ARBR I did not see your message.

It is understood that you sort of lean against the seat (saddle) with your
weight evenly distributed between your butt, your legs and your arms.
However, that is for racers only. The rest of us sit on the god damn things
and suffer accordingly. Ever notice how hybrid type of bikes have replaced
road bikes for the general populace? That is because everyone is reconciled
to sitting upright on saddles despite what racers do.

Another interesting phenomenon is that recumbents are not exactly that
either since you sit on them in a semi-recumbent position. But a recumbent
racer may very well be in a full recumbent position on some very special
racing recumbents. But they are totally impractical for general street use.

By the way, a bike saddle will cause all kind of groin problems sooner or
later, especially if you ride for many hours every day. The medical
literature is full of tales of woe of cyclists who have suffered serious
injury in the groin area from too much cycling. This NEVER happens with a
recumbent because you are seated on a proper seat, not a saddle. Alas, too
late we get wise.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Just A User]

Rex Kerr wrote:
>> The Gods of RANS have a funny way of punishing people.
>> About the chainring sticking out. A df wheel sticks out a similar
>> distance as the chainrings on a SWB recumbent.
>
> Nope, I owned a recumbent, and it most definitely was longer than my DF
> bikes. Also, the wheels on my bikes tend to not be as sharp as a
> chainring. :-)
>
> PS: Why the crosspost? Mine was in fun, but crossposting to the
> recumbent group is just asking for a flamewar!

Why are you not a recumbent owner any longer? Did you stop riding
altogether? Or was the recumbent too fast for you in the flats? Just
joking. But seriously I have been riding recumbents now for a couple of
years and I own df bikes and they haven't left the garage in probably 6
months or more.

[Wilson Warmouth[_12_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
news:e4idnaKbbr_zpxHanZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>
> "Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>> news:KuudnSBI1YrJsRHanZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think 'diamond frame' is a very good term for an upright
>>> bicycle. I think 'upright' is a far better term since it describes how
>>> you are seated on the bike. That is what matters, not how the bike is
>>> constructed.
>>>
>>
>> I've done my best to explain to the Great Saint that one does not sit
>> upright on an upright bicycle seat if one is to be comfortable on an
>> upright bicycle. Is it possible that a Great Saint could be lacking
>> cognitive ability?
>
> Unless you posted to ARBR I did not see your message.
>
> It is understood that you sort of lean against the seat (saddle) with your
> weight evenly distributed between your butt, your legs and your arms.


Yes. This is the way thousands and thousands of men, women, and children
ride upright/diamond frame bikes in comfort for up to 100 miles or more in a
days time.


> However, that is for racers only. The rest of us sit on the god damn
> things and suffer accordingly. Ever notice how hybrid type of bikes have
> replaced road bikes for the general populace? That is because everyone is
> reconciled to sitting upright on saddles despite what racers do.


We are talking about recreational riders not racers, not supermen, not
superwomen, not superchildren. The Great Saint said he has ridden organized
cross-state rides so surely he must have noticed the diamond frame riders
around him riding in comfort. If an upright/diamond frame bike not properly
fitted or ridden correctly it will most likely be uncomfortable if ridden
for any length of time. The same can be said of some recumbents. Google
"recumbent butt" for confirmation. Bikes that are not properly fitted tend
to spend a lot of time garaged with their tires flat.

>
> Another interesting phenomenon is that recumbents are not exactly that
> either since you sit on them in a semi-recumbent position. But a recumbent
> racer may very well be in a full recumbent position on some very special
> racing recumbents. But they are totally impractical for general street
> use.
>


My recumbent bike, an Easy Racer GRR, is a refined design that has stood the
test of time. I find it completely practical for general street use. This
bike meets my needs and I desire no other recumbent bike.


> By the way, a bike saddle will cause all kind of groin problems sooner or
> later, especially if you ride for many hours every day. The medical
> literature is full of tales of woe of cyclists who have suffered serious
> injury in the groin area from too much cycling. This NEVER happens with a
> recumbent because you are seated on a proper seat, not a saddle. Alas, too
> late we get wise.
>

Not to be trite, but too much of a good thing can sometimes be way too much
of a good thing. It's unfortunate that someone didn't come up with the
name "woody bike" instead of "recumbent bike" (if you don't understand this
ask your physician about "men's health" and bike riding).

[Peter Clinch]

Wilson Warmouth wrote:

> Yes. This is the way thousands and thousands of men, women, and children
> ride upright/diamond frame bikes in comfort for up to 100 miles or more in a
> days time.

Comfort is a relative thing. The seat I'm sat in as I type this is one
I'd describe as quite comfy, but for just sitting in it's also the case
that it's considerably /less/ comfy than the easy chairs in my sitting
room. Of course, they're lousy for mouse and keyboard use, which is why
I don't use them at a computer, but in terms of seated comfort the easy
chairs are just /better/.

As long as the recumbent seat doesn't interfere with anything else you
need to do on the bike (like work the steering), it remains the case
that better is better.

But, as one can easily demonstrate with a decent work chair, "less
comfortable" does not equate to "uncomfortable" or "problematical".

I ride my 'bent on long distance rides primarily for reasons of greater
comfort and hence greater enjoyment over thr course of several hours,
but I still enjoyed myself on the DF tourer I used to have, and still
enjoy using my upright folder,

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Rex Kerr]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> Rex Kerr must have an iron ass.

I may have to adopt this as a nickname.

> I have never heard of anyone who thought it was more comfy to sit on
a saddle than a proper seat. However, the thought also occurs to me that
he is most likely insane.

Yep, they undo the straps on my straight jacket long enough for me to
type a message or two a few times per day.

> I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
bathroom.

For its purpose, yes. It works MUCH better than any other for that purpose.

> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****?

As explained by others, DF = diamond frame since one could draw a
diamond (almost parallelogram) between the top tube and chainstays vs.
downtube and seat stays.


That said, I've found road bikes with the handlebars properly placed at
seat height and a well worn Brooks saddle to be extremely comfortable.
When I sit on my most ridden Brooks my weight is so well distributed
that it actually feels quite soft, almost pillow like. The width of a
B17 is perfect for me. On my last tour with 10+ hours per day in the
saddle I found that I was resting on the steepest climbs (12%-14%) by
placing my foot on the guardrail and sitting on the saddle since it was
difficult to get off of the fully loaded bike on a steep hill. I felt
no immediate need to get off of the saddle!

On recumbents (I've ridden a few, and owned the V-Rex for about 5 years)
I could never seem to find the right position. My toes would get numb
with high bottom brackets, I'd be sitting in a pool of sweat, my glutes
would be numb from sitting on them while they're trying to work, etc.
Not to mention, the few times that I unexpectedly needed to get home
fast and took the train it was darn near impossible to get that thing
on/off the train!!

There were a few times when I preferred riding the recumbent. I loved
the low down feeling when descending and doing the twisties, it was
exhilarating. I also found them to be best when riding with slow
riders. When riding really slow I find that I put too much pressure on
a regular saddle and it does get uncomfortable more quickly. In those
cases, a big easy chair is more appropriate, but I don't often ride that
way, and when I do I just spend more time standing out of the saddle to
compensate.

Sorry, but they're just not for everybody! Perhaps lack of
marketing/availability isn't the only reason that they're not more common?

-Rex

[Edward Dolan]

"Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> news:e4idnaKbbr_zpxHanZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>
>> "Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>>> news:KuudnSBI1YrJsRHanZ2dnUVZ_sSlnZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think 'diamond frame' is a very good term for an upright
>>>> bicycle. I think 'upright' is a far better term since it describes how
>>>> you are seated on the bike. That is what matters, not how the bike is
>>>> constructed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've done my best to explain to the Great Saint that one does not sit
>>> upright on an upright bicycle seat if one is to be comfortable on an
>>> upright bicycle. Is it possible that a Great Saint could be lacking
>>> cognitive ability?
>>
>> Unless you posted to ARBR I did not see your message.
>>
>> It is understood that you sort of lean against the seat (saddle) with
>> your weight evenly distributed between your butt, your legs and your
>> arms.
>
>
> Yes. This is the way thousands and thousands of men, women, and children
> ride upright/diamond frame bikes in comfort for up to 100 miles or more in
> a days time.

Children never ride bikes for more than a few minutes at a time. Please get
real!

>> However, that is for racers only. The rest of us sit on the god damn
>> things and suffer accordingly. Ever notice how hybrid type of bikes have
>> replaced road bikes for the general populace? That is because everyone is
>> reconciled to sitting upright on saddles despite what racers do.
>
>
> We are talking about recreational riders not racers, not supermen, not
> superwomen, not superchildren. The Great Saint said he has ridden
> organized cross-state rides so surely he must have noticed the diamond
> frame riders around him riding in comfort. If an upright/diamond frame
> bike not properly fitted or ridden correctly it will most likely be
> uncomfortable if ridden for any length of time. The same can be said of
> some recumbents. Google "recumbent butt" for confirmation. Bikes that
> are not properly fitted tend to spend a lot of time garaged with their
> tires flat.

Upright bike riders are NEVER comfortable for long. At the end of a hard
day's ride, they are limping about and rubbing their backsides. It has
nothing to do with fit and everything to do with those god damn saddles and
the upright design of the bike.

Any and all recumbents can be made totally comfortable if you fuss with the
seat enough. Usually all it takes is layering in some good foam and getting
it laid back enough so you are not sitting upright on your butt.

>> Another interesting phenomenon is that recumbents are not exactly that
>> either since you sit on them in a semi-recumbent position. But a
>> recumbent racer may very well be in a full recumbent position on some
>> very special racing recumbents. But they are totally impractical for
>> general street use.
>
> My recumbent bike, an Easy Racer GRR, is a refined design that has stood
> the test of time. I find it completely practical for general street use.
> This bike meets my needs and I desire no other recumbent bike.

You are seated on the Easy Racers in a semi-recumbent position. It is not a
true racing recumbent which will seat you like you are lying in bed, either
on your stomach or on your back. Racing recumbents are all about
aerodynamics and little else.

I agree that Easy Racers got it right from the beginning. The only thing is
that you need to get the seat laid back enough to get some of your weight
off your butt. That cobra seat however was a disaster. Recumbents require
foam seats for total comfort.

>> By the way, a bike saddle will cause all kind of groin problems sooner or
>> later, especially if you ride for many hours every day. The medical
>> literature is full of tales of woe of cyclists who have suffered serious
>> injury in the groin area from too much cycling. This NEVER happens with a
>> recumbent because you are seated on a proper seat, not a saddle. Alas,
>> too late we get wise.
>>
>
> Not to be trite, but too much of a good thing can sometimes be way too
> much of a good thing. It's unfortunate that someone didn't come up with
> the name "woody bike" instead of "recumbent bike" (if you don't understand
> this ask your physician about "men's health" and bike riding).

I rode uprights for nearly 15 years and for many hours each and every day. I
can't begin to tell you all the problems I had as a result of it. But the
sheer suffering of riding an upright has to be experienced to be believed.
Once I made the switch to recumbents, all of my former problems with cycling
disappeared forever. I have never looked back.

Recumbents are ideal for anyone over the age of 40. Uprights are strictly
for young whippersnappers. Women especially just love recumbents since they
are never comfortable on uprights.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > Rex Kerr must have an iron ass.
>
> I may have to adopt this as a nickname.
>
> > I have never heard of anyone who thought it was more comfy to sit on
> a saddle than a proper seat. However, the thought also occurs to me that
> he is most likely insane.
>
> Yep, they undo the straps on my straight jacket long enough for me to type
> a message or two a few times per day.

I suspect Rex Kerr may be a kindred spirit!

> > I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
> bathroom.
>
> For its purpose, yes. It works MUCH better than any other for that
> purpose.
>
> > By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****?
>
> As explained by others, DF = diamond frame since one could draw a diamond
> (almost parallelogram) between the top tube and chainstays vs. downtube
> and seat stays.
>
>
> That said, I've found road bikes with the handlebars properly placed at
> seat height and a well worn Brooks saddle to be extremely comfortable.
> When I sit on my most ridden Brooks my weight is so well distributed that
> it actually feels quite soft, almost pillow like. The width of a B17 is
> perfect for me. On my last tour with 10+ hours per day in the saddle I
> found that I was resting on the steepest climbs (12%-14%) by placing my
> foot on the guardrail and sitting on the saddle since it was difficult to
> get off of the fully loaded bike on a steep hill. I felt no immediate
> need to get off of the saddle!

An upright bike will not only get you in the butt, it will get you in the
back, the shoulders and the neck as well as your hands. In short, it is a
total disaster as far as comfort is concerned.

> On recumbents (I've ridden a few, and owned the V-Rex for about 5 years) I
> could never seem to find the right position. My toes would get numb with
> high bottom brackets, I'd be sitting in a pool of sweat, my glutes would
> be numb from sitting on them while they're trying to work, etc. Not to
> mention, the few times that I unexpectedly needed to get home fast and
> took the train it was darn near impossible to get that thing on/off the
> train!!

Rex, I could have corrected every single problem you mentioned above. Your
toes got numb because the bottom bracket was indeed too high. This is a more
common problem than is acknowledged in the literature. You needed a
recumbent with a lower bottom bracket. Sweating is good for you and just
part of cycling. As for your glutes, you needed to get the seat laid back
more to get your weight more on your back. Your short wheelbase V-Rex was as
nothing compared to my long wheelbase recumbents when it comes to getting in
and out of tight spaces.

I will say this though. If all you do is ride a bike for an hour at a time,
an upright will serve, but if you ride for many hours day after day, a
recumbent will serve you far better. You may or may not be as fast, but you
will surely be in far less pain at the end of the week. In fact, if you get
your recumbent right, you will be in no pain whatsoever.

> There were a few times when I preferred riding the recumbent. I loved the
> low down feeling when descending and doing the twisties, it was
> exhilarating. I also found them to be best when riding with slow riders.
> When riding really slow I find that I put too much pressure on a regular
> saddle and it does get uncomfortable more quickly. In those cases, a big
> easy chair is more appropriate, but I don't often ride that way, and when
> I do I just spend more time standing out of the saddle to compensate.

Yes, you have to ride an upright fast or you will suffer for it if you
don't. There is no penalty for riding a recumbent slowly.

> Sorry, but they're just not for everybody! Perhaps lack of
> marketing/availability isn't the only reason that they're not more common?

Actually, recumbents are for everybody over the age of 40 who wants to be
comfortable while riding a bicycle. Most folks give up on bicycles by the
age of 40. It is too bad because a recumbent would be perfect for them.

Rex just needs to get a recumbent with a lower bottom bracket and make sure
that he can get the seat sufficiently laid back and he will be as
comfortable as he is sitting in his easy chair at home. The most comfortable
recumbent I have is the Vision, set up long wheelbase, above seat steering.
But I must admit I did have to get a better foam for the seat base.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...
> Wilson Warmouth wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is the way thousands and thousands of men, women, and children
>> ride upright/diamond frame bikes in comfort for up to 100 miles or more
>> in a
>> days time.
>
> Comfort is a relative thing. The seat I'm sat in as I type this is one
> I'd describe as quite comfy, but for just sitting in it's also the case
> that it's considerably /less/ comfy than the easy chairs in my sitting
> room. Of course, they're lousy for mouse and keyboard use, which is why
> I don't use them at a computer, but in terms of seated comfort the easy
> chairs are just /better/.
>
> As long as the recumbent seat doesn't interfere with anything else you
> need to do on the bike (like work the steering), it remains the case
> that better is better.
>
> But, as one can easily demonstrate with a decent work chair, "less
> comfortable" does not equate to "uncomfortable" or "problematical".

Only an idiot would compare a bicycle saddle with a recumbent seat. One is
sheer pain and the other is sheer bliss. Guess which is which?

> I ride my 'bent on long distance rides primarily for reasons of greater
> comfort and hence greater enjoyment over thr course of several hours,
> but I still enjoyed myself on the DF tourer I used to have, and still
> enjoy using my upright folder,

He only rides his uprights for very short distances and for very short
periods of time. I wonder why?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[DennisTheBald]

yeah, I ride a SWB recumbent.

It has occurred to me that the chain ring is located on the leading
edge of my bike as it goes down the road, maybe I should sharpen the
teeth from time to time?

One time on RAGBRAI there was this non-rider with a video camera
kneeling right on the center line at the bottom of a pretty good hill
- I think it occurred to him as I crossed the line about 20' in front
of him going about 40

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> I agree that Easy Racers got it right from the beginning. The only thing is
> that you need to get the seat laid back enough to get some of your weight
> off your butt. That cobra seat however was a disaster. Recumbents require
> foam seats for total comfort....

However, the Easy Racers Cobra seat is quite comfortable compared to the
pre-Cobra hard-shell seat (which even looked uncomfortable).

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>> ...
>> I agree that Easy Racers got it right from the beginning. The only thing
>> is that you need to get the seat laid back enough to get some of your
>> weight off your butt. That cobra seat however was a disaster. Recumbents
>> require foam seats for total comfort....
>
> However, the Easy Racers Cobra seat is quite comfortable compared to the
> pre-Cobra hard-shell seat (which even looked uncomfortable).

The seat is really the most important component of the recumbent. Get that
right and everything else falls into place.

I started out with home made seats from plywood with a carpet foam base for
covering. Nope, it did not really work at all well. I finally get accustomed
to paying top dollar for a good manufactured seat.

I never found the Cobra seat at all comfortable. Easy Racers soon went to a
mesh back seat with a foam base copied from RANS. Some like the hard shell
seat because it gives you marginally a greater push on the pedals, but it is
not worth it. Comfort is everything. If you want to be fast, then get a
racing type of road bike and comfort be damned!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[[email protected]]

On Jan 15, 4:45 pm, DennisTheBald > wrote:
> yeah, I ride a SWB recumbent.
>
> It has occurred to me that the chain ring is located on the leading
> edge of my bike as it goes down the road, maybe I should sharpen the
> teeth from time to time?

Oh man, don't do it. I snagged my brand new wool jersey (only the
second time I've worn it) tonight when I put the bike away (and a DF
bike at that!) on the storage rack, and poked a nice hole on the front
of the jersey just below my belly button is :-(

Waaaaah!!!!!

[Wilson Warmouth[_12_]]

> ...

> Edward Dolan wrote:

[....]
> I never found the Cobra seat at all comfortable. Easy Racers soon went to
> a mesh back seat with a foam base copied from RANS. Some like the hard
> shell seat because it gives you marginally a greater push on the pedals,
> but it is not worth it. [...]

The Great Saint is right about one thing. I have a Cobra seat for my Easy
Racer as well as an older RANS short back seat. The Cobra seat gives me mild
recumbent butt after an hour or so. I can walk off the RB in a few minutes,
but it will come back in another hour or less. The RANS seat is by far the
best choice for long distance riding.

[Edward Dolan]

"Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>> ...
>
>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [....]
>> I never found the Cobra seat at all comfortable. Easy Racers soon went to
>> a mesh back seat with a foam base copied from RANS. Some like the hard
>> shell seat because it gives you marginally a greater push on the pedals,
>> but it is not worth it. [...]
>
> The Great Saint is right about one thing. I have a Cobra seat for my Easy
> Racer as well as an older RANS short back seat. The Cobra seat gives me
> mild recumbent butt after an hour or so. I can walk off the RB in a few
> minutes, but it will come back in another hour or less. The RANS seat is
> by far the best choice for long distance riding.

Wilson, you have a very fine recumbent bicycle and it is a shame that you
cannot get total comfort on it all day. The main problem with the Easy Racer
is that it has a low bottom bracket (BB) which prohibits much seat lean
back. But nevertheless that is the solution. Try to lean back the seat as
much as possible without losing power to the pedals. You need to get some of
the weight off your butt and onto your back. This is much easier to do with
a recumbent with a higher BB.

I have often thought that the ideal height of the BB is about 4 inches below
the seat. That optimizes power to the pedals and you can still get a good
seat lean back. Ideally, you should never get recumbent butt. That defeats
the whole purpose of a recumbent.

I also have the RANS short back seat on my Tailwind and it was the first
manufactured seat I ever had that did not cause my rear end any grief. For
some reason, RANS always knew how to make pretty good seats.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Wilson Warmouth[_12_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Wilson Warmouth" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>> ...
>>
>>> Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> [....]
>>> I never found the Cobra seat at all comfortable. Easy Racers soon went
>>> to a mesh back seat with a foam base copied from RANS. Some like the
>>> hard shell seat because it gives you marginally a greater push on the
>>> pedals, but it is not worth it. [...]
>>
>> The Great Saint is right about one thing. I have a Cobra seat for my
>> Easy Racer as well as an older RANS short back seat. The Cobra seat gives
>> me mild recumbent butt after an hour or so. I can walk off the RB in a
>> few minutes, but it will come back in another hour or less. The RANS
>> seat is by far the best choice for long distance riding.
>
> Wilson, you have a very fine recumbent bicycle and it is a shame that you
> cannot get total comfort on it all day. The main problem with the Easy
> Racer is that it has a low bottom bracket (BB) which prohibits much seat
> lean back. But nevertheless that is the solution. Try to lean back the
> seat as much as possible without losing power to the pedals. You need to
> get some of the weight off your butt and onto your back. This is much
> easier to do with a recumbent with a higher BB.
>
> I have often thought that the ideal height of the BB is about 4 inches
> below the seat. That optimizes power to the pedals and you can still get a
> good seat lean back. Ideally, you should never get recumbent butt. That
> defeats the whole purpose of a recumbent.
>
> I also have the RANS short back seat on my Tailwind and it was the first
> manufactured seat I ever had that did not cause my rear end any grief. For
> some reason, RANS always knew how to make pretty good seats.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>

[JimmyMac]

On Jan 14, 9:18 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
> >>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>
> >> What drove your apostasy?
>
> > The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find them
> > to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others may
> > disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.
>
> Rex Kerr must have an iron ass. I have never heard of anyone who thought it
> was more comfy to sit on a saddle than a proper seat. However, the thought
> also occurs to me that he is most likely insane. I wonder ... does he also
> sit on a saddle when he is at home looking at TV? If that is the case, then
> I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
> bathroom.
>
> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
> bicycles by the recumbent community.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
platform pejorative. As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
soapbox ... Jim McNamara

[Edward Dolan]

"JimmyMac" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 14, 9:18 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> "Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> >>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free
>> >>> recumbent
>> >>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>>
>> >> What drove your apostasy?
>>
>> > The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find
>> > them
>> > to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others may
>> > disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.
>>
>> Rex Kerr must have an iron ass. I have never heard of anyone who thought
>> it
>> was more comfy to sit on a saddle than a proper seat. However, the
>> thought
>> also occurs to me that he is most likely insane. I wonder ... does he
>> also
>> sit on a saddle when he is at home looking at TV? If that is the case,
>> then
>> I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
>> bathroom.
>>
>> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
>> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
>> bicycles by the recumbent community.
>
> Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
> favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
> uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
> upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
> platform pejorative.

No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut case
would think otherwise.

As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
> united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
> refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
> soapbox ... Jim McNamara

There is no 'cycling community' that I am aware of on Usenet. Instead, all I
see are a bunch of slobs who pontificate on whatever comes into their stupid
heads. If others would only emulate Ed Dolan the Great, this would be a far,
far better place. He sets a fine example for all of us.

Upright cyclists are mostly young and when they get old, if they continue
with cycling, they will be on recumbents. Thus spake Zarathustra.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[JimmyMac]

On Jan 14, 9:18 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free recumbent
> >>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>
> >> What drove your apostasy?
>
> > The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find them
> > to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others may
> > disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.
>
> Rex Kerr must have an iron ass. I have never heard of anyone who thought it
> was more comfy to sit on a saddle than a proper seat. However, the thought
> also occurs to me that he is most likely insane. I wonder ... does he also
> sit on a saddle when he is at home looking at TV? If that is the case, then
> I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
> bathroom.
>
> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
> bicycles by the recumbent community.

A community is most often comprised of individuals sharing common
interests which in turn fosters some degree of camaraderie. As such,
it is counter productive for a member of the cycling community to
label an upright bicycle as upwrong. An inflammatory riding platform
pejorative, this derisive, prejudicial term is inappropriately
employed solely for its negative connotations. From a personal
perspective, I contend that cyclists should be untied by what they
do ... not divided by what they do it on. This is what I refer to as
unity through diversity. - Jim McNamara

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[JimmyMac]

On Jan 24, 7:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 14, 9:18 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> >> "Rex Kerr" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >> >>> That said, perhaps you're right. After years of injury free
> >> >>> recumbent
> >> >>> ownership I get this from a stray recumbent!
>
> >> >> What drove your apostasy?
>
> >> > The fact that I enjoy riding my DF bikes much more and actually find
> >> > them
> >> > to be more comfortable than my V-Rex was. That's me, and others may
> >> > disagree, but for now I'm a DF rider.
>
> >> Rex Kerr must have an iron ass. I have never heard of anyone who thought
> >> it
> >> was more comfy to sit on a saddle than a proper seat. However, the
> >> thought
> >> also occurs to me that he is most likely insane. I wonder ... does he
> >> also
> >> sit on a saddle when he is at home looking at TV? If that is the case,
> >> then
> >> I suspect the most comfy seat in his house is the toilet seat in the
> >> bathroom.
>
> >> By the way (speaking of ****), what is this DF ****? Surely you mean an
> >> upright bicycle, although I have also heard them referred to as upwrong
> >> bicycles by the recumbent community.
>
> > Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
> > favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
> > uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
> > upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
> > platform pejorative.
>
> No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut case
> would think otherwise.

See my second post in this regard. What a warped persepctive. An
inflammatory, derisive, prejudicial term is not humorous.

> As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
>
> > united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
> > refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
> > soapbox ... Jim McNamara
>
> There is no 'cycling community' that I am aware of on Usenet.

That is just because you are ... well unaware!

> Instead, all I
> see are a bunch of slobs who pontificate on whatever comes into their stupid
> heads. If others would only emulate Ed Dolan the Great,

.... the pontificater extrodinaire

> this would be a far, far better place. He sets a fine example for all of us.

> Upright cyclists are mostly young and when they get old, if they continue
> with cycling, they will be on recumbents. Thus spake Zarathustra.

In Chicago's weather shortened riding season, in utter defiance of Ed
Dolan's fallacious decree, this not so young 61 year old rode 5600
miles last year only about 1000 of which were on my recumbent.
Despite what the guy has deceived himself into believing, Ed Dolan
just doesn't have it right all the time.

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"JimmyMac" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 24, 7:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
[...]
>> > Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
>> > favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
>> > uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
>> > upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
>> > platform pejorative.
>>
>> No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut
>> case
>> would think otherwise.
>
> See my second post in this regard. What a warped persepctive. An
> inflammatory, derisive, prejudicial term is not humorous.

Inflammatory, derisive and prejudicial terms are the most humorous of all -
unless you have no sense of humor of course. That is why racial and ethnic
jokes are so funny. There are thousands of jokes about dumb Poles and
drunken Irish and they are all pretty funny.

>> As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
>>
>> > united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
>> > refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
>> > soapbox ... Jim McNamara
>>
>> There is no 'cycling community' that I am aware of on Usenet.
>
> That is just because you are ... well unaware!
>
>> Instead, all I
>> see are a bunch of slobs who pontificate on whatever comes into their
>> stupid
>> heads. If others would only emulate Ed Dolan the Great,
>
> ... the pontificater extrodinaire
>
>> this would be a far, far better place. He sets a fine example for all of
>> us.
>
>> Upright cyclists are mostly young and when they get old, if they continue
>> with cycling, they will be on recumbents. Thus spake Zarathustra.
>
> In Chicago's weather shortened riding season, in utter defiance of Ed
> Dolan's fallacious decree, this not so young 61 year old rode 5600
> miles last year only about 1000 of which were on my recumbent.
> Despite what the guy has deceived himself into believing, Ed Dolan
> just doesn't have it right all the time.

Jim is most likely a hardy soul and is going to live to be 100. Ed Dolan the
Great is fading fast and he will be lucky to make it to 80. The only
question is what will this newsgroup ever do without Ed Dolan the Great here
to remind everyone of what idiots they are!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[JimmyMac]

On Jan 25, 4:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Jan 24, 7:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> >> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
> [...]
> >> > Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
> >> > favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
> >> > uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
> >> > upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
> >> > platform pejorative.
>
> >> No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut
> >> case
> >> would think otherwise.
>
> > See my second post in this regard. What a warped persepctive. An
> > inflammatory, derisive, prejudicial term is not humorous.
>
> Inflammatory, derisive and prejudicial terms are the most humorous of all -
> unless you have no sense of humor of course. That is why racial and ethnic
> jokes are so funny. There are thousands of jokes about dumb Poles and
> drunken Irish and they are all pretty funny.
>
>
>
> >> As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
>
> >> > united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
> >> > refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
> >> > soapbox ... Jim McNamara
>
> >> There is no 'cycling community' that I am aware of on Usenet.
>
> > That is just because you are ... well unaware!
>
> >> Instead, all I
> >> see are a bunch of slobs who pontificate on whatever comes into their
> >> stupid
> >> heads. If others would only emulate Ed Dolan the Great,
>
> > ... the pontificater extrodinaire
>
> >> this would be a far, far better place. He sets a fine example for all of
> >> us.
>
> >> Upright cyclists are mostly young and when they get old, if they continue
> >> with cycling, they will be on recumbents. Thus spake Zarathustra.
>
> > In Chicago's weather shortened riding season, in utter defiance of Ed
> > Dolan's fallacious decree, this not so young 61 year old rode 5600
> > miles last year only about 1000 of which were on my recumbent.
> > Despite what the guy has deceived himself into believing, Ed Dolan
> > just doesn't have it right all the time.
>
> Jim is most likely a hardy soul and is going to live to be 100. Ed Dolan the
> Great is fading fast and he will be lucky to make it to 80. The only
> question is what will this newsgroup ever do without Ed Dolan the Great here
> to remind everyone of what idiots they are!

SInce Ed Dolan made no further defense of the "humor" to be found in
the term upwrong, I presume he understood where I was coming from
Perhaps he envision himself from the perspective of the person being
insulted or disrespected and pondered the concept ...all that is said
in jest is not a joke.

As for his question, the answer is that Ed Dolan will be survived by
ARBR and perhaps that should be included in his obituary.

> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[JimmyMac]

On Jan 25, 4:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Jan 24, 7:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> >> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
> [...]
> >> > Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
> >> > favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
> >> > uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
> >> > upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
> >> > platform pejorative.
>
> >> No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut
> >> case
> >> would think otherwise.
>
> > See my second post in this regard. What a warped persepctive. An
> > inflammatory, derisive, prejudicial term is not humorous.
>
> Inflammatory, derisive and prejudicial terms are the most humorous of all -
> unless you have no sense of humor of course. That is why racial and ethnic
> jokes are so funny. There are thousands of jokes about dumb Poles and
> drunken Irish and they are all pretty funny.

How did I overlook your response? Whether something is considered
funny primarily depends upon whether one is the teller of the victim
of the joke some of which are rather derogatory. Your example of
Poles and intelligence is a case in point.. OK, putting aside your
twisted sense of what you consider humor, envision yourself from the
perspective of the person being insulted or disrespected. Here's a
concept to ponder. All that is said in jest is not a joke. Go back
an read that again. Got it the second time around? Lest we forget,
this sub-thread originated with my objection to use of the term
upwrong which is not a joke, but rather a prejudicial pejorative. -
Jim McNamara

> >> As a cycling community, it is preferable to be
>
> >> > united by what we do than divided by what we do it on. This is what I
> >> > refer to as unity through diversity. Stepping down from my
> >> > soapbox ... Jim McNamara
>
> >> There is no 'cycling community' that I am aware of on Usenet.
>
> > That is just because you are ... well unaware!
>
> >> Instead, all I
> >> see are a bunch of slobs who pontificate on whatever comes into their
> >> stupid
> >> heads. If others would only emulate Ed Dolan the Great,
>
> > ... the pontificater extrodinaire
>
> >> this would be a far, far better place. He sets a fine example for all of
> >> us.
>
> >> Upright cyclists are mostly young and when they get old, if they continue
> >> with cycling, they will be on recumbents. Thus spake Zarathustra.
>
> > In Chicago's weather shortened riding season, in utter defiance of Ed
> > Dolan's fallacious decree, this not so young 61 year old rode 5600
> > miles last year only about 1000 of which were on my recumbent.
> > Despite what the guy has deceived himself into believing, Ed Dolan
> > just doesn't have it right all the time.
>
> Jim is most likely a hardy soul and is going to live to be 100. Ed Dolan the
> Great is fading fast and he will be lucky to make it to 80. The only
> question is what will this newsgroup ever do without Ed Dolan the Great here
> to remind everyone of what idiots they are!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"JimmyMac" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 25, 4:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
>> Jim is most likely a hardy soul and is going to live to be 100. Ed Dolan
>> the
>> Great is fading fast and he will be lucky to make it to 80. The only
>> question is what will this newsgroup ever do without Ed Dolan the Great
>> here
>> to remind everyone of what idiots they are!
>
> SInce Ed Dolan made no further defense of the "humor" to be found in
> the term upwrong, I presume he understood where I was coming from
> Perhaps he envision himself from the perspective of the person being
> insulted or disrespected and pondered the concept ...all that is said
> in jest is not a joke.
>
> As for his question, the answer is that Ed Dolan will be survived by
> ARBR and perhaps that should be included in his obituary.

ARBR is already dead and gone. All that is required is that someone shovel
some dirt over us and erect an appropriate headstone. I am working on it and
will let you know what I have decided on in a final summation before I leave
this freaking-cycling-newsgroup (all one word) for good.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"JimmyMac" > wrote in message
...
> On Jan 25, 4:37 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 7:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> >> "JimmyMac" > wrote in message
>> [...]
>> >> > Tom has already clearly defined what DF refers to. Those who are in
>> >> > favor of camaraderie in the cycling community, do not use the term
>> >> > uprwong which is a politically incorrect *******ization of the term
>> >> > upright with obvious intended connotations. As such it is a riding
>> >> > platform pejorative.
>>
>> >> No, it is merely slightly humorous and altogether harmless. Only a nut
>> >> case
>> >> would think otherwise.
>>
>> > See my second post in this regard. What a warped persepctive. An
>> > inflammatory, derisive, prejudicial term is not humorous.
>>
>> Inflammatory, derisive and prejudicial terms are the most humorous of
>> all -
>> unless you have no sense of humor of course. That is why racial and
>> ethnic
>> jokes are so funny. There are thousands of jokes about dumb Poles and
>> drunken Irish and they are all pretty funny.
>
> How did I overlook your response? Whether something is considered
> funny primarily depends upon whether one is the teller of the victim
> of the joke some of which are rather derogatory. Your example of
> Poles and intelligence is a case in point.. OK, putting aside your
> twisted sense of what you consider humor, envision yourself from the
> perspective of the person being insulted or disrespected. Here's a
> concept to ponder. All that is said in jest is not a joke. Go back
> an read that again. Got it the second time around? Lest we forget,
> this sub-thread originated with my objection to use of the term
> upwrong which is not a joke, but rather a prejudicial pejorative. -
> Jim McNamara

I am of Irish ancestry and so I did include myself. I think Irish jokes are
funny because there are elements of truth connected to them. I think it is
your Polishness which ****s you up so much. Apparently you do not have
brains enough to know when to laugh at yourself.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota