Lance Armstrong to open bike shop [Archive]

March 16th 08, 03:34 AM

If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.

On Mar 14, 1:24 am, wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/mar08/mar14news
>
> "
> Armstrong will cater to serious road racers with top end Trek bikes,
> similar to those Armstrong rode on his seven consecutive Tour de
> France victories, but also wants the shop to have wide appeal. He has
> plans to sell mountain bikes, commuter bikes, fixed wheels, low
> riders, handmade one-offs, and triathlon bikes.
> "
>
> I wonder if he'll be a dealer for bikes with legendary ride quality
> like these:http://www.lemondbikes.com/

Bruce Gilbert[_3_]

March 16th 08, 03:03 PM

> wrote in message
...
> If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
> and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
> Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
> few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
> business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
> little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
>
>
Most of the older folks in the bike business, who are the real players, are
a bit older than the racing crowd. The same phenomenon is true for a large
percentage of the people with the disposable income to buy the top end race
bikes. I believe your comment about most people in the bike business don't
ride is valid, to a degree. Most of us ride as much as they can. This exact
observation was very much on my mind during the last Interbike. I would
leave our booth to cruise the show and did observe how many wide-body
participants were in the aisles and behind the tables.

I read a book called "The New Wellness Revolution" which had a strong effect
on me. I now believe that in order for the bike business to really take off
in this country, it has to be bound up with adult wellness somehow. Bike
shops are not projecting or reinforcing that image very well and neither are
the bike manufacturers. How many bike company websites have a weight
loss/control program on their websites, or in the info packet? I wonder if
it is even practical in terms of liability, economics, etc.? Wouldn't it be
interesting if cycling based weight-loss programs started showing up in bike
shops. Race training information abounds in the bike world. Weight-loss and
wellness would be broader based and have a more universal appeal. There are
enough experts and good writers in this newsgroup alone, for a few folks to
put their minds together in order to form an effective company. Anyone
interested? If nothing else it would make a great marketing story...

I did recently see that the LAB has formed some sort of relationship with
AARP. Also, I have heard that there is a bike tour company somewhere that
does bus tours for retirees. They seem to hit a lot of the organized rides
around the country. That could be the start of low-cost wellness-oriented
vacationing. Interesting idea...

Bruce

Bruce Gilbert[_3_]

March 16th 08, 06:44 PM

"David B." > wrote in message
...
> Bruce Gilbert wrote:
> > I read a book called "The New Wellness Revolution" which had a
> strong effect
> > on me. I now believe that in order for the bike business to really take
off
> > in this country, it has to be bound up with adult wellness somehow. Bike
> > shops are not projecting or reinforcing that image very well and neither
are
> > the bike manufacturers. How many bike company websites have a weight
> > loss/control program on their websites, or in the info packet?
> >
> > Bruce
>
> Terry just did a webcast on weight control and biking and they've posted
> it on their website.
>
> http://www.terrybicycles.com/seminar.html
>
> I haven't watched it by my wife did. It was originally broadcast live
> and they got so many more folks trying to log on than they'd planned for
> that the server crashed.
> Of course Terry's for girls so it would have little effect on what guys
> want.
>
> David

They make men's seats too... there is hope for the company!

Bruce

[email protected]

March 17th 08, 03:01 PM

On Mar 16, 8:03 am, "Bruce Gilbert" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...> If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
> > and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
> > Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
> > few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
> > business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
> > little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
>
> Most of the older folks in the bike business, who are the real players, are
> a bit older than the racing crowd. The same phenomenon is true for a large
> percentage of the people with the disposable income to buy the top end race
> bikes. I believe your comment about most people in the bike business don't
> ride is valid, to a degree. Most of us ride as much as they can. This exact
> observation was very much on my mind during the last Interbike. I would
> leave our booth to cruise the show and did observe how many wide-body
> participants were in the aisles and behind the tables.
>
> I read a book called "The New Wellness Revolution" which had a strong effect
> on me. I now believe that in order for the bike business to really take off
> in this country, it has to be bound up with adult wellness somehow. Bike
> shops are not projecting or reinforcing that image very well and neither are
> the bike manufacturers. How many bike company websites have a weight
> loss/control program on their websites, or in the info packet? I wonder if
> it is even practical in terms of liability, economics, etc.? Wouldn't it be
> interesting if cycling based weight-loss programs started showing up in bike
> shops. Race training information abounds in the bike world. Weight-loss and
> wellness would be broader based and have a more universal appeal. There are
> enough experts and good writers in this newsgroup alone, for a few folks to
> put their minds together in order to form an effective company. Anyone
> interested? If nothing else it would make a great marketing story...
>

One of the big challenges for cycling is to get more kids riding
again. Many kids don't ride their bikes to school because of traffic
and parents fear of crime. The ASO sponsored a TDF themed series of
cycling contests around France a few years back. This the sort of
thing the bike industry and the NBDA (national bicycle dealers
association) needs to get involved in. The would help with the
wellness issue you speak of.

> I did recently see that the LAB has formed some sort of relationship with
> AARP. Also, I have heard that there is a bike tour company somewhere that
> does bus tours for retirees. They seem to hit a lot of the organized rides
> around the country. That could be the start of low-cost wellness-oriented
> vacationing. Interesting idea...
>
> Bruce

Crescentius Vespasianus

March 19th 08, 12:42 PM

wrote:
> If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
> and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
> Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
> few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
> business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
> little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
>
------------
I think it has to do the ass opposite,
.....distance itself from racing as much
as possible. For most people, including
myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
I didn't really like the people, when I
was doing it myself. It's apples and
oranges, but if you want to try your
theory, open a bike shop that is
specific only to bike racing, and see
how many people come in. The average
guy, I'm guessing, that wants to buy a
bike, wants a little adventure, and to
stay fit and lose a little weight.
That's light years from the haughtiness,
and self absorption that bike racers
cling on to.

Fabrizio Mazzoleni

March 19th 08, 06:21 PM

"Crescentius Vespasianus" > wrote in message
...
> I think it has to do the ass opposite, ....distance itself from racing as much as
> possible. For most people, including myself, bike racing is a big turn-off. I didn't
> really like the people, when I was doing it myself. It's apples and oranges, but if you
> want to try your theory, open a bike shop that is specific only to bike racing, and see
> how many people come in. The average guy, I'm guessing, that wants to buy a bike, wants
> a little adventure, and to stay fit and lose a little weight. That's light years from
> the haughtiness, and self absorption that bike racers cling on to.

OK, who let this FRED get in here?

Ryan Cousineau

March 20th 08, 12:46 AM

In article >,
Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:

> wrote:
> > If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
> > and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
> > Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
> > few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
> > business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
> > little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
> >
> ------------
> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
> ....distance itself from racing as much
> as possible. For most people, including
> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
> I didn't really like the people, when I
> was doing it myself.

You were doing it wrong.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Tom Kunich

March 20th 08, 12:53 AM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:
>> ------------
>> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
>> ....distance itself from racing as much
>> as possible. For most people, including
>> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
>> I didn't really like the people, when I
>> was doing it myself.
>
> You were doing it wrong.

But he'll never understand how or why.

Ryan Cousineau

March 20th 08, 01:01 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:
> >> ------------
> >> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
> >> ....distance itself from racing as much
> >> as possible. For most people, including
> >> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
> >> I didn't really like the people, when I
> >> was doing it myself.
> >
> > You were doing it wrong.
>
> But he'll never understand how or why.

You were, too.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Crescentius Vespasianus

March 20th 08, 01:58 AM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article >,
> Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>> If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
>>> and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
>>> Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
>>> few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
>>> business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
>>> little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
>>>
>> ------------
>> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
>> ....distance itself from racing as much
>> as possible. For most people, including
>> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
>> I didn't really like the people, when I
>> was doing it myself.
>
> You were doing it wrong.
----------
I should have done something like ski
jumping, at least there is a fan base in
that sport.

Tom Kunich

March 20th 08, 02:01 AM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
>> ]...
>> > Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:
>> >> ------------
>> >> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
>> >> ....distance itself from racing as much
>> >> as possible. For most people, including
>> >> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
>> >> I didn't really like the people, when I
>> >> was doing it myself.
>> >
>> > You were doing it wrong.
>>
>> But he'll never understand how or why.
>
> You were, too.

And how was I doing it?

Carl Sundquist

March 20th 08, 03:01 AM

"Crescentius Vespasianus" > wrote in message
...
>>> ------------
>>> I think it has to do the ass opposite, ....distance itself from racing
>>> as much as possible. For most people, including myself, bike racing is
>>> a big turn-off. I didn't really like the people, when I was doing it
>>> myself.
>>
>> You were doing it wrong.
> ----------
> I should have done something like ski jumping, at least there is a fan
> base in that sport.
>

If that's your priority...

Ryan Cousineau

March 20th 08, 03:26 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > In article >,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> >> ]...
> >> > Crescentius Vespasianus > wrote:
> >> >> ------------
> >> >> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
> >> >> ....distance itself from racing as much
> >> >> as possible. For most people, including
> >> >> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
> >> >> I didn't really like the people, when I
> >> >> was doing it myself.
> >> >
> >> > You were doing it wrong.
> >>
> >> But he'll never understand how or why.
> >
> > You were, too.
>
> And how was I doing it?

You never left Cat 5 and you declined to contest sprints. You should
have done time trials and stuck with it.

Even a personal best is sort of honourable.

At least you didn't ride in Harrison Hot Springs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/2336500893/

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Tom Kunich

March 20th 08, 01:28 PM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> And how was I doing it?
>
> You never left Cat 5 and you declined to contest sprints. You should
> have done time trials and stuck with it.
>
> Even a personal best is sort of honourable.
>
> At least you didn't ride in Harrison Hot Springs:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/2336500893/

Geez Ryan, firstly I can't TT. A personal best would be 3 mph below the last
guy. Secondly, if you can't win the sprint even on a lucky day, "contesting"
the sprints is stupid and dangerous. By all means get in there with the
other 12th place finishers and endanger them and you in your attempt to
finish 11th.

I loved the feel of a fast moving pack and I liked helping, even leading
out, our team sprinter. But that doesn't mean that I should somehow have
felt the need to win what is in essence a bicycle ride.

Crescentius Vespasianus

March 20th 08, 02:58 PM

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> "Crescentius Vespasianus" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>> ------------
>>>> I think it has to do the ass opposite, ....distance itself from
>>>> racing as much as possible. For most people, including myself, bike
>>>> racing is a big turn-off. I didn't really like the people, when I
>>>> was doing it myself.
>>>
>>> You were doing it wrong.
>> ----------
>> I should have done something like ski jumping, at least there is a fan
>> base in that sport.
>>
>
> If that's your priority...
-----------
I just wish I would have been involved
in a sport where the fans actually like
the participants. What few fans there
are in bike racing, are only there to
watch someone they hate, lose. Just
read rbr, in the summer, it's all about
hating that guy, or the other. I'm not
saying it isn't deserved, it is. It's
just that the whole culture sucks.

mort

March 20th 08, 03:32 PM

On Mar 19, 8:42*am, Crescentius Vespasianus >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > If Lance is smart he won't run the shop or hire a consultant. Racing
> > and running a bike shop are different realms. One big advantage that
> > Lance has is that he actually rides a bike. I was always amazed at how
> > few people in the bike industry ride a bike. Most people in the bike
> > business don't ride at all. Another problem is that there is far to
> > little interaction between bicycle racing and bike business.
>
> ------------
> I think it has to do the ass opposite,
> ....distance itself from racing as much
> as possible. *For most people, including
> myself, bike racing is a big turn-off.
> I didn't really like the people, when I
> was doing it myself. *It's apples and
> oranges, but if you want to try your
> theory, open a bike shop that is
> specific only to bike racing, and see
> how many people come in. *The average
> guy, I'm guessing, that wants to buy a
> bike, wants a little adventure, and to
> stay fit and lose a little weight.
> That's light years from the haughtiness,
> and self absorption that bike racers
> cling on to.

I agree completely.

Mort

datakoll

March 20th 08, 04:00 PM

oh I know

one door sez: wumin'
the other door sez:

datakoll

March 20th 08, 04:17 PM

_ _ _ _ _ _

Ryan Cousineau

March 21st 08, 12:53 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > In article >,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> And how was I doing it?
> >
> > You never left Cat 5 and you declined to contest sprints. You should
> > have done time trials and stuck with it.
> >
> > Even a personal best is sort of honourable.
> >
> > At least you didn't ride in Harrison Hot Springs:
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rcousine/2336500893/
>
> Geez Ryan, firstly I can't TT. A personal best would be 3 mph below the last
> guy. Secondly, if you can't win the sprint even on a lucky day, "contesting"
> the sprints is stupid and dangerous. By all means get in there with the
> other 12th place finishers and endanger them and you in your attempt to
> finish 11th.

Well, please don't take it too seriously. After all, it's entirely
possible I was drunk when I posted that.

> I loved the feel of a fast moving pack and I liked helping, even leading
> out, our team sprinter. But that doesn't mean that I should somehow have
> felt the need to win what is in essence a bicycle ride.

That said...

"Road racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive
influence of civilization. When you seen an enemy lying on the ground,
what's your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing you
kick him to death." - Tim Krabbe, The Rider

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Tom Kunich

March 21st 08, 01:24 AM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> I loved the feel of a fast moving pack and I liked helping, even leading
>> out, our team sprinter. But that doesn't mean that I should somehow have
>> felt the need to win what is in essence a bicycle ride.
>
> That said...
>
> "Road racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive
> influence of civilization. When you seen an enemy lying on the ground,
> what's your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing you
> kick him to death." - Tim Krabbe, The Rider

So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?

I rode with a group with whom I was always 300 yards behind going as hard as
I could to catch up. Whenever I got close enough to be part of the group
they sped up.

After racing for 3 years I was much faster than all of them but I would
simply ride with the group since that was my desire.

Now that I've been out of racing for 10 years and that fitness is well and
truly gone, I find everyone else riding the same way they did when I
started.

datakoll

March 21st 08, 02:14 AM

WELL, then how about COUSINEAU or KUNICH on the door ?
would that please you?

Ryan Cousineau

March 21st 08, 06:31 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > In article >,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> I loved the feel of a fast moving pack and I liked helping, even leading
> >> out, our team sprinter. But that doesn't mean that I should somehow have
> >> felt the need to win what is in essence a bicycle ride.
> >
> > That said...
> >
> > "Road racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive
> > influence of civilization. When you seen an enemy lying on the ground,
> > what's your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing you
> > kick him to death." - Tim Krabbe, The Rider
>
> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?

Yes.

I have not read widely in the field of cycling literature, but I have
read a fair bit of literature. Krabbe's novel is one of the truest books
I have read in ways large and small, and his fictionalization of a bike
race is so sufficient that I feel no other document is necessary to
describe the essence of amateur racing.

http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=420

> I rode with a group with whom I was always 300 yards behind going as hard as
> I could to catch up. Whenever I got close enough to be part of the group
> they sped up.
>
> After racing for 3 years I was much faster than all of them but I would
> simply ride with the group since that was my desire.
>
> Now that I've been out of racing for 10 years and that fitness is well and
> truly gone, I find everyone else riding the same way they did when I
> started.

The themes of road racing are cruelty and suffering. When you are really
in the race, you will be suffering. If you are lucky, the other guy is
suffering more. When you are sure that is the case, you attack, because
the weak must be eliminated from the pack.

But always, there is suffering. You try to minimize your own pain, but
it is literal, and if you have half a brain, it will be overwhelming.
You should just give up. But as I once read in NYCVelocity, all bike
racers are mental.

To be spit out the pack is the worst pain of all, and the agony of
failure is all that keeps most riders suffering along.

In my own racing, I haven't really become inured to the suffering. In
many of my most successful races, I have gone through a period when the
race was clearly too hard for me, when I went into a funk that was like
depression, and when I understood that the amount of suffering going on
was ridiculously disproportionate to the ludicrous task of winning a
Tuesday night crit, and that it would be okay to stop trying.

Then I got better, and in some cases I won. Because everybody else was
suffering too.

Bike racing is not for everyone. It is mental. The riders are, too. Some
people who ride bikes do not have the temprament for racing, or the
interest, or the ability. They are the lucky ones. The only thing that
keeps it the least bit sensible is that it doesn't matter, and that it's
wonderful.

As for TTs, they are of course a ridiculous parody of bike racing: all
the suffering, but with only a stopwatch as your adversary. It hurts,
but there is no winner.

So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

datakoll

March 21st 08, 01:26 PM

amazing! life as a bicycle race. excellent.
you'll get over it
SAY, Trek orders Lemonds, no?
or was that the ;point

Off The Back

March 21st 08, 04:23 PM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> The themes of road racing are cruelty and suffering.
<snip>

I think all truths about bike racing can be found in "The Good, the Bad, and
the Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.

Mark
http://marcofanelli.blogspot.com

Donald Munro

March 21st 08, 06:17 PM

Off The Back wrote:
> I think all truths about bike racing can be found in "The Good, the Bad,
> and the Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.

Presumably Flandis is the ugly, so the question is who's the good and the
bad.

Tom Kunich

March 21st 08, 06:56 PM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?
>
> Yes.
>
> So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.

Man, to think that somehow you correlate an amateur race with a pro race.

datakoll

March 21st 08, 07:39 PM

wong flick

HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER

datakoll

March 22nd 08, 01:35 AM

now there's a bumper sticker

Ryan Cousineau

March 22nd 08, 04:45 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > In article >,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.
>
> Man, to think that somehow you correlate an amateur race with a pro race.

You've trimmed my post, so what amateur race did I "correlate" with a
pro race?

As far as I can tell, I used an imaginary race as an exemplar of all
amateur races,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Michael Press

March 22nd 08, 04:47 AM

In article >,
Donald Munro > wrote:

> Off The Back wrote:
> > I think all truths about bike racing can be found in "The Good, the Bad,
> > and the Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.
>
> Presumably Flandis is the ugly, so the question is who's the good and the
> bad.

Lance is the bad. I nominate Greg Lemonde for the Good.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press

March 22nd 08, 04:53 AM

In article
>,
datakoll > wrote:

> wong flick
>
> HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER

If we're nominating there is

Johnny Caspar: It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect
no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a
fix, what can you trust? For a good return, you gotta go
bettin' on chance--and then you're back with anarchy, right
back in the jungle.

--
Michael Press

Kyle Legate

March 22nd 08, 08:09 AM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> I have not read widely in the field of cycling literature, but I have
> read a fair bit of literature. Krabbe's novel is one of the truest books
> I have read in ways large and small, and his fictionalization of a bike
> race is so sufficient that I feel no other document is necessary to
> describe the essence of amateur racing.
>
> http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=420
>
Thanks for that, it's an excellent supplement to his book. I reread The
Rider for the second time around 6 months ago and, like the first time,
did it all in one sitting. It didn't feel right to put the book down in
the middle of a race.

datakoll

March 22nd 08, 12:43 PM

On Mar 21, 9:35*pm, datakoll > wrote:
> now there's a bumper sticker

SHOWER WITH ZABRISKIE AT ARMSTRONG'S

RonSonic

March 22nd 08, 01:39 PM

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 04:53:53 GMT, Michael Press > wrote:

>In article
>,
> datakoll > wrote:
>
>> wong flick
>>
>> HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
>
>If we're nominating there is
>
>Johnny Caspar: It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect
>no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a
>fix, what can you trust? For a good return, you gotta go
>bettin' on chance--and then you're back with anarchy, right
>back in the jungle.

Another fight movie: FLandis could've stolen Bruce Dern's line from Diggstown, "
Ya beat me fair and square."

Ron

datakoll

March 22nd 08, 02:47 PM

YO Ron, yawl know of Howard Cosell?

Tom Kunich

March 22nd 08, 07:54 PM

"Michael Press" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Donald Munro > wrote:
>
>> Off The Back wrote:
>> > I think all truths about bike racing can be found in "The Good, the
>> > Bad,
>> > and the Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.
>>
>> Presumably Flandis is the ugly, so the question is who's the good and the
>> bad.
>
> Lance is the bad. I nominate Greg Lemonde for the Good.

Greg has been a dickhead most of his life. Mind you, that doesn't bother me
since I was only interested in his bicycle racing. But pretending that he's
some sort of moral compass is pretty ridiculous.

Tom Kunich

March 22nd 08, 07:55 PM

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
]...
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
>> ]...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?
>> >
>> > Yes.
>> >
>> > So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.
>>
>> Man, to think that somehow you correlate an amateur race with a pro race.
>
> You've trimmed my post, so what amateur race did I "correlate" with a
> pro race?

That race in Tim's book was an amateur race.

datakoll

March 22nd 08, 09:36 PM

ONCE UPON A TIME,
there was fighter name of Paterson who fought that other boxer and
beatum
but the judges gave the decision to Ali.
So Howard struts over to a very tired Paterson, sticks the mic in his
face and sez:

all you could do to keep from reaching into the TV and bashing Cosell
a good one upside his head.

Ryan Cousineau

March 23rd 08, 04:10 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> ]...
> > In article >,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
> >> ]...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?
> >> >
> >> > Yes.
> >> >
> >> > So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.
> >>
> >> Man, to think that somehow you correlate an amateur race with a pro race.
> >
> > You've trimmed my post, so what amateur race did I "correlate" with a
> > pro race?
>
> That race in Tim's book was an amateur race.

The racing I described in the rest of my post was also, at least
primarily, amateur racing. I thought that was clear. Perhaps you'll
requote my post to me to remind me of the deficit you found.

I think most of the same sensations absolutely translate to pro racing.
The motivations and the consequences and (maybe the only thing) the
money are key differences.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Michael Press

March 23rd 08, 04:15 AM

In article >,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Michael Press" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Donald Munro > wrote:
> >
> >> Off The Back wrote:
> >> > I think all truths about bike racing can be found in "The Good, the
> >> > Bad,
> >> > and the Ugly" with Clint Eastwood.
> >>
> >> Presumably Flandis is the ugly, so the question is who's the good and the
> >> bad.
> >
> > Lance is the bad. I nominate Greg Lemonde for the Good.
>
> Greg has been a dickhead most of his life. Mind you, that doesn't bother me
> since I was only interested in his bicycle racing. But pretending that he's
> some sort of moral compass is pretty ridiculous.

Yep. I got the ahrony level set just right.

--
Michael Press

Donald Munro

March 23rd 08, 07:23 AM

Michael Press wrote:
> Yep. I got the ahrony level set just right.

But your calibration device was reading couplescompany.com.

Fred Fredburger[_3_]

March 23rd 08, 07:49 AM

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article >,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>> "Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
>> ]...
>>> In article >,
>>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>> I loved the feel of a fast moving pack and I liked helping, even leading
>>>> out, our team sprinter. But that doesn't mean that I should somehow have
>>>> felt the need to win what is in essence a bicycle ride.
>>> That said...
>>>
>>> "Road racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive
>>> influence of civilization. When you seen an enemy lying on the ground,
>>> what's your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing you
>>> kick him to death." - Tim Krabbe, The Rider
>> So do you believe Tim Krabbe to be an expert in these matters?
>
> Yes.
>
> I have not read widely in the field of cycling literature, but I have
> read a fair bit of literature. Krabbe's novel is one of the truest books
> I have read in ways large and small, and his fictionalization of a bike
> race is so sufficient that I feel no other document is necessary to
> describe the essence of amateur racing.
>
> http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=420
>
>> I rode with a group with whom I was always 300 yards behind going as hard as
>> I could to catch up. Whenever I got close enough to be part of the group
>> they sped up.
>>
>> After racing for 3 years I was much faster than all of them but I would
>> simply ride with the group since that was my desire.
>>
>> Now that I've been out of racing for 10 years and that fitness is well and
>> truly gone, I find everyone else riding the same way they did when I
>> started.
>
> The themes of road racing are cruelty and suffering. When you are really
> in the race, you will be suffering. If you are lucky, the other guy is
> suffering more. When you are sure that is the case, you attack, because
> the weak must be eliminated from the pack.
>
> But always, there is suffering. You try to minimize your own pain, but
> it is literal, and if you have half a brain, it will be overwhelming.
> You should just give up. But as I once read in NYCVelocity, all bike
> racers are mental.
>
> To be spit out the pack is the worst pain of all, and the agony of
> failure is all that keeps most riders suffering along.
>
> In my own racing, I haven't really become inured to the suffering. In
> many of my most successful races, I have gone through a period when the
> race was clearly too hard for me, when I went into a funk that was like
> depression, and when I understood that the amount of suffering going on
> was ridiculously disproportionate to the ludicrous task of winning a
> Tuesday night crit, and that it would be okay to stop trying.
>
> Then I got better, and in some cases I won. Because everybody else was
> suffering too.
>
> Bike racing is not for everyone. It is mental. The riders are, too. Some
> people who ride bikes do not have the temprament for racing, or the
> interest, or the ability. They are the lucky ones. The only thing that
> keeps it the least bit sensible is that it doesn't matter, and that it's
> wonderful.
>
> As for TTs, they are of course a ridiculous parody of bike racing: all
> the suffering, but with only a stopwatch as your adversary. It hurts,
> but there is no winner.
>
> So to sum up, I love racing, and would recommend it to everyone.
>

Nicely said.