Train fares

[vernon[_2_]]

Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and from
Thurso/Wick after 18th May.

Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
fare is £125.

Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a break
in the journey at Plymouth.

There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares appear
to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above price rise
is far above that.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100 someone who may be "vernon"
> wrote this:-

>Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and from
>Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>
>Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
>fare is £125.

I have just put in Leeds to Thurso for 20/5/08 (random date). The
cheapest fare offered is £34, an advance purchase single valid only
on the specified trains. It has to be purchased before the day of
travel and there are only a limited number of them available on any
particular train so they can sell out weeks before travel. It is
only offered on one service on that date, an overnight service.

The next cheapest fare is a saver single, valid on I suspect every
train on this route, on ISTR the date specified on the ticket,
though there maybe a few OTHER restrictions. That is £125.50. A
saver return is £126.50. This can be purchased right up to the
moment of departure and there is no quota, unlike the advance
purchase fare.

The most expensive fare is a single, valid on every train on the
route and ISTR for up to three days from the date on the ticket.
That is £133.00. This can be purchased right up to the moment of
departure and there is no quota, unlike the advance purchase fare.

That seems to me to be like things are now. It also matches up with
descriptions of this "change" which I heard in the mass media. It is
more of a marketing move by calling all advance purchase tickets by
the same name.

If you are not seeing the advance purchase fares for a particular
date it is likely to mean one of three things. Firstly, perhaps the
date you are looking at is too far ahead for them to be available
yet. Secondly, the computers decided to put a quota of zero, or
close to zero, on the trains/days you are looking at. Thirdly, all
the advance purchase fares have been sold for those days/trains you
are looking at (which could be partly the same as the second thing
if the quota is very low).



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[Tom Crispin]

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100, "vernon"
> wrote:

>Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and from
>Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>
>Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
>fare is £125.
>
>Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a break
>in the journey at Plymouth.
>
>There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares appear
>to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above price rise
>is far above that.

There is a cheaper option.

Home to Penzance - by bicycle
Land's End to John O'Groats - by bicycle
John O'Groats to home - by bicycle

You will just need to plan for a few extra days cycling and a few
extra nights under canvass. ;-)

[vernon[_2_]]

"Tom Crispin" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100, "vernon"
> > wrote:
>

> There is a cheaper option.
>
> Home to Penzance - by bicycle
> Land's End to John O'Groats - by bicycle
> John O'Groats to home - by bicycle
>
> You will just need to plan for a few extra days cycling and a few
> extra nights under canvass. ;-)

Even if home to Penzance took a 'few days' the pie bill would exceed the
train fare :-)

[Tom Crispin]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:50:57 +0100, "vernon"
> wrote:

>
>"Tom Crispin" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100, "vernon"
>> > wrote:
>>
>
>> There is a cheaper option.
>>
>> Home to Penzance - by bicycle
>> Land's End to John O'Groats - by bicycle
>> John O'Groats to home - by bicycle
>>
>> You will just need to plan for a few extra days cycling and a few
>> extra nights under canvass. ;-)
>
>Even if home to Penzance took a 'few days' the pie bill would exceed the
>train fare :-)

Hmmm... You have a point. It's not only train fare prices on the
rise. The price of a Melton Mowbray pork pie has nearly tripled since
I tried Le Jog in 2002.

Try Tescos own brand instead, still excellent value with 3 for the
price of 2.

[vernon[_2_]]

"David Hansen" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100 someone who may be "vernon"
> > wrote this:-
>
>>Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and
>>from
>>Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>>
>>Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
>>fare is £125.
>
> I have just put in Leeds to Thurso for 20/5/08 (random date). The
> cheapest fare offered is £34, an advance purchase single valid only
> on the specified trains. It has to be purchased before the day of
> travel and there are only a limited number of them available on any
> particular train so they can sell out weeks before travel. It is
> only offered on one service on that date, an overnight service.
>
> The next cheapest fare is a saver single, valid on I suspect every
> train on this route, on ISTR the date specified on the ticket,
> though there maybe a few OTHER restrictions. That is £125.50. A
> saver return is £126.50. This can be purchased right up to the
> moment of departure and there is no quota, unlike the advance
> purchase fare.
>
> The most expensive fare is a single, valid on every train on the
> route and ISTR for up to three days from the date on the ticket.
> That is £133.00. This can be purchased right up to the moment of
> departure and there is no quota, unlike the advance purchase fare.
>
> That seems to me to be like things are now. It also matches up with
> descriptions of this "change" which I heard in the mass media. It is
> more of a marketing move by calling all advance purchase tickets by
> the same name.
>
> If you are not seeing the advance purchase fares for a particular
> date it is likely to mean one of three things. Firstly, perhaps the
> date you are looking at is too far ahead for them to be available
> yet. Secondly, the computers decided to put a quota of zero, or
> close to zero, on the trains/days you are looking at. Thirdly, all
> the advance purchase fares have been sold for those days/trains you
> are looking at (which could be partly the same as the second thing
> if the quota is very low).
>
A like for like comparison i.e. a 12 hr journey time or thereabouts leaps
from £43 pounds on 17th May to the aforementioned £125 pounds. It does not
appear to be possible to make the journey under 18 hours for the fare that
you quoted. Travelling from Thurso to Leeds is cheaper at £30 but travelling
during daylight at this price does not seem to be possible.

There has been a further tranche of tickets released since doing the
original search and it seems that:
I was not looking too far ahead
The quota for the days I looked at (mid week and weekend) is zero or
thereabouts.

The cheap fare availability for Thurso does not compare favourably with
pre-May 18th fares and that includes the summer months of 2005/2006/2007
where I was spoilt for choice for choosing a day to travel cheaply on to or
from Thurso.

Cross Country Trains' fare of £20 with only one change as opposed to three
or sometimes four changes for Thurso is definitely a bargain.....

[Graham Harrison[_2_]]

"vernon" > wrote in message
...
> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and
> from Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>
> Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
> fare is £125.
>
> Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a
> break in the journey at Plymouth.
>
> There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares
> appear to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above
> price rise is far above that.
>

Try splitting the journey. You need a knowledge of which TOCs operate
which routes but I suspect you may find that if you look at Leeds/Edinburgh
and then a second ticket Edinburgh/Thurso (or maybe Edinburgh/Inverness and
then Inverness/Thurso) that a combination of fares offers a better deal.

[Geoff Lane[_2_]]

"vernon" > wrote in
:

> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to
> and from Thurso/Wick after 18th May.

Ouch! That said, I'm not sure how that would effect the JOGLE I'm vaguely
contemplating because I still haven't figured out how to get me, my bike,
and my trailer up to the start.

Ironically, it seems that riding it would be the simplest, but I haven't
got the time for an e2e2e.

[elyob]

On 29 Apr, 23:40, "vernon" > wrote:
> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and from
> Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>
> Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
> fare is £125.
>
> Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a break
> in the journey at Plymouth.
>
> There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares appear
> to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above price rise
> is far above that.

Thanks for the info, I'm flying home to London. £70 and 4 hours.

[vernon[_2_]]

"Tom Crispin" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:50:57 +0100, "vernon"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tom Crispin" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:40:17 +0100, "vernon"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> There is a cheaper option.
>>>
>>> Home to Penzance - by bicycle
>>> Land's End to John O'Groats - by bicycle
>>> John O'Groats to home - by bicycle
>>>
>>> You will just need to plan for a few extra days cycling and a few
>>> extra nights under canvass. ;-)
>>
>>Even if home to Penzance took a 'few days' the pie bill would exceed the
>>train fare :-)
>
> Hmmm... You have a point. It's not only train fare prices on the
> rise. The price of a Melton Mowbray pork pie has nearly tripled since
> I tried Le Jog in 2002.
>
> Try Tescos own brand instead, still excellent value with 3 for the
> price of 2.

You clearly underestimate my capacity for pies :-)

[vernon[_2_]]

"Graham Harrison" > wrote in
message ...
>
> "vernon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and
>> from Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>>
>> Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
>> fare is £125.
>>
>> Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a
>> break in the journey at Plymouth.
>>
>> There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares
>> appear to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above
>> price rise is far above that.
>>
>
> Try splitting the journey. You need a knowledge of which TOCs operate
> which routes but I suspect you may find that if you look at
> Leeds/Edinburgh and then a second ticket Edinburgh/Thurso (or maybe
> Edinburgh/Inverness and then Inverness/Thurso) that a combination of fares
> offers a better deal.

Been there done that not much joy. You've correctly identified the key
stations but the net saving from the individually priced three legs does not
drop significantly from the prevailing £125 for daytime travel.
>
>

[Graham Harrison[_2_]]

"vernon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Graham Harrison" > wrote
> in message ...
>>
>> "vernon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and
>>> from Thurso/Wick after 18th May.
>>>
>>> Before 18th May a single from Leeds costs £43 after 18th May the minimum
>>> fare is £125.
>>>
>>> Paradoxically the fares to Penzance drop from £64 to around £20 with a
>>> break in the journey at Plymouth.
>>>
>>> There's a thread on uk.railway looking at price rises and some fares
>>> appear to double with the simplified ticket structure though the above
>>> price rise is far above that.
>>>
>>
>> Try splitting the journey. You need a knowledge of which TOCs operate
>> which routes but I suspect you may find that if you look at
>> Leeds/Edinburgh and then a second ticket Edinburgh/Thurso (or maybe
>> Edinburgh/Inverness and then Inverness/Thurso) that a combination of
>> fares offers a better deal.
>
> Been there done that not much joy. You've correctly identified the key
> stations but the net saving from the individually priced three legs does
> not drop significantly from the prevailing £125 for daytime travel.
>>
>>
>
>

What date are you looking for? Taking a random 10th June I'm getting
advance fares of GBP10.50 Leeds/Edinburgh, 10.00 Edinburgh/Inverness and
9.60 Inverness/Wick.

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:30:10 +0100 someone who may be "Graham
Harrison" > wrote
this:-

>> Been there done that not much joy. You've correctly identified the key
>> stations but the net saving from the individually priced three legs does
>> not drop significantly from the prevailing £125 for daytime travel.
>
>What date are you looking for? Taking a random 10th June I'm getting
>advance fares of GBP10.50 Leeds/Edinburgh, 10.00 Edinburgh/Inverness and
>9.60 Inverness/Wick.

It does seem a bit like the dance of the seven veils. I suspect that
it will only be after a number of other postings that we might get
anywhere near the last veil.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[Danny Colyer]

On 29/04/2008 23:40, vernon wrote:
> Folk contemplating a LEJOG will find a massive hike in the fares to and from
> Thurso/Wick after 18th May.

They'll also find some difficulty in reaching Cornwall:
<http://tinyurl.com/6gazff>
leads to:
<http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144936&command=displayContent&sourceNode=144919&contentPK=20396752&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch>

My wife was particularly amused/stunned by the final sentence when she
pointed this article out to me.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis

[Jon]

On 30 Apr, 08:17, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
> Try splitting the journey. *

Not a good idea travelling with a bicycle. Having one through ticket
means that if a connection is lost and the traveller has to use a
later train for which they have no cycle reservation, the TOC's have
to do something to get them home. With multiple tickets, if a train is
late and a connection missed at the point where one ticket ends and
the next starts, a TOC could argue that the traveller had simply
failed to turn up to catch the train and so they are not responsible
for getting the travellers cycle onto later unreserved trains.

[Roos Eisma]

Jon > writes:

>On 30 Apr, 08:17, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>>
>> Try splitting the journey. =A0

>Not a good idea travelling with a bicycle. Having one through ticket
>means that if a connection is lost and the traveller has to use a
>later train for which they have no cycle reservation, the TOC's have
>to do something to get them home. With multiple tickets, if a train is
>late and a connection missed at the point where one ticket ends and
>the next starts, a TOC could argue that the traveller had simply
>failed to turn up to catch the train and so they are not responsible
>for getting the travellers cycle onto later unreserved trains.

Try splitting in stations where you don't have to change trains.
When traveling from Dundee to Glasgow we've found that splitting the
ticket in Perth is a lot cheaper. It is the same train however - in theory
you should maybe get off and board again but we normally just stay where
we are.

Roos

[David Hansen]

On 01 May 2008 10:20:33 GMT someone who may be Roos Eisma
> wrote this:-

>When traveling from Dundee to Glasgow we've found that splitting the
>ticket in Perth is a lot cheaper. It is the same train however - in theory
>you should maybe get off and board again but we normally just stay where
>we are.

No need. The rules are that as long as the train stops at station(s)
where you change tickets, using multiple tickets for a trip on one
train is fine. It is not permissible to do this if a train does not
stop at a station where you change tickets.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

[vernon[_2_]]

"Jon" > wrote in message
...
On 30 Apr, 08:17, "Graham Harrison"
> wrote:
>
> Try splitting the journey.

Not a good idea travelling with a bicycle. Having one through ticket
means that if a connection is lost and the traveller has to use a
later train for which they have no cycle reservation, the TOC's have
to do something to get them home. With multiple tickets, if a train is
late and a connection missed at the point where one ticket ends and
the next starts, a TOC could argue that the traveller had simply
failed to turn up to catch the train and so they are not responsible
for getting the travellers cycle onto later unreserved trains.

I tried telling GNER that in August 2006 when I was deposited at the
southend of Waverley with four minutes to get my bike off the York Edinburgh
train along a long platform only to be confronted with a lift with a '10
minute queue' or a flight of stairs leading to an overbridge to get to the
Inverness train platform. The promised assistance that was asked for at
York never materialised at Waverley and the customer service chap in the
GNER office blamed my missing the connection upon having a bike and luggage
with me and I ended up shuffling back and forth between Scotrail and GNER
offices trying to get some sort of recompense. The Scotrail chaps were
great. The git in the GNER office was far from civil or servile - not a
relaxing affair.