Diagnose this!

[D'ohBoy]

So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
Here are the particulars:

Tune Campy-compatible hub;
CXP33 rim;
32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
to torque spec (2x!);
I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
torquing per the instructions;
I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
wheels;
I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
of mean tension;
DS tension is 110 kgf ;
NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
the NDS by gauge #);
The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
pedal stroke;
Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
time but can be LOUD.

One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
Campy hubs.

I am leaning toward either:

1. Pawls
2. Freehub
3. Some combination of the above 2

Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. Or
so I am starting to think.

D'ohBoy

[Michael Press]

In article
>,
"D'ohBoy" > wrote:

> So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> Here are the particulars:
>
> Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> CXP33 rim;
> 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> I have swapped out the QR and it didn¹t change the noise;
> I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> to torque spec (2x!);
> I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> torquing per the instructions;
> I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> wheels;
> I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> of mean tension;
> DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> the NDS by gauge #);
> The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> pedal stroke;
> Mostly the creak isn¹t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> time but can be LOUD.
>
> One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> Campy hubs.
>
> I am leaning toward either:
>
> 1. Pawls
> 2. Freehub
> 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it¹s a POS. Or
> so I am starting to think.

Suggestion. Stop fixing it, and locate the creak.

--
Michael Press

[M-gineering]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> Here are the particulars:
>
> Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> CXP33 rim;
> 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
> I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> to torque spec (2x!);
> I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> torquing per the instructions;
> I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> wheels;
> I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> of mean tension;
> DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> the NDS by gauge #);
> The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> pedal stroke;
> Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> time but can be LOUD.
>
> One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> Campy hubs.
>
> I am leaning toward either:
>
> 1. Pawls
> 2. Freehub
> 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. Or
> so I am starting to think.
>
> D'ohBoy

maybe greasing the axleends in the dropouts and fitting a decent skewer
will help

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

[[email protected]]

On May 3, 3:44*am, "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> Here are the particulars:
>
> Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> CXP33 rim;
> 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
> I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> to torque spec (2x!);
> I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> torquing per the instructions;
> I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> wheels;
> I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> of mean tension;
> DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> the NDS by gauge #);
> The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> pedal stroke;
> Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> time but can be LOUD.
>
> One other weirdness: *the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> Campy hubs.
>
> I am leaning toward either:
>
> 1. * * *Pawls
> 2. * * *Freehub
> 3. * * *Some combination of the above 2
>
> Any other suggestions? *Help! *I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. *Or
> so I am starting to think.
>
> D'ohBoy

What is 2.5mm wider? Is the rim cracked?

Joseph

[D'ohBoy]

On May 3, 2:23 am, "
> wrote:
> On May 3, 3:44 am, "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > Here are the particulars:
>
> > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > CXP33 rim;
> > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
> > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > to torque spec (2x!);
> > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > torquing per the instructions;
> > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > wheels;
> > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > of mean tension;
> > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > the NDS by gauge #);
> > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > pedal stroke;
> > Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > time but can be LOUD.
>
> > One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > Campy hubs.
>
> > I am leaning toward either:
>
> > 1. Pawls
> > 2. Freehub
> > 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> > Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. Or
> > so I am starting to think.
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> What is 2.5mm wider? Is the rim cracked?
>
> Joseph

OLD is 2.5 mm wider.

D'ohBoy

[D'ohBoy]

On May 2, 11:08 pm, Michael Press > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
> "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > Here are the particulars:
>
> > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > CXP33 rim;
> > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > I have swapped out the QR and it didn¹t change the noise;
> > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > to torque spec (2x!);
> > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > torquing per the instructions;
> > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > wheels;
> > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > of mean tension;
> > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > the NDS by gauge #);
> > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > pedal stroke;
> > Mostly the creak isn¹t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > time but can be LOUD.
>
> > One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > Campy hubs.
>
> > I am leaning toward either:
>
> > 1. Pawls
> > 2. Freehub
> > 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> > Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it¹s a POS. Or
> > so I am starting to think.
>
> Suggestion. Stop fixing it, and locate the creak.
>
> --
> Michael Press

Hmmm... I thought what I was doing was eliminating possibilities and
thereby locating the creak. Obviously, the re-install of the cassette
twice was a bit of flailing.

Putting it on the trainer was one attempt to do so. My helpful spouse
was going to crouch near the rear wheel and try to locate the noise.
However, as noted above, I could not reproduce it on the trainer. So
locating the noise other than somewhere in the rear wheel will require
deductive efforts rather than empirical.

Or so I think. Got any better suggestions?

One other note: included with the entirely auf Deutsch instructions
was a computer printed note indicating that 40 nm was the recommended
torque for the lockring rather than the Campy recommended 50 nm.

I have been adhering to that torque value.

D'ohBoy

[D'ohBoy]

On May 3, 12:31 am, M-gineering > wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
> > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > Here are the particulars:
>
> > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > CXP33 rim;
> > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
> > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > to torque spec (2x!);
> > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > torquing per the instructions;
> > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > wheels;
> > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > of mean tension;
> > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > the NDS by gauge #);
> > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > pedal stroke;
> > Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > time but can be LOUD.
>
> > One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > Campy hubs.
>
> > I am leaning toward either:
>
> > 1. Pawls
> > 2. Freehub
> > 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> > Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. Or
> > so I am starting to think.
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> maybe greasing the axleends in the dropouts and fitting a decent skewer
> will help
>
> --
> /Marten
>
> info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Hmmm... the skewers I have been using do not creak on other wheels. I
did try greasing the dropouts. Forgot to mention those. No change.

Thanks for playing!

D'ohBoy

[[email protected]]

On May 3, 2:30*pm, "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> On May 2, 11:08 pm, Michael Press > wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
>
> > *"D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> > > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > > Here are the particulars:
>
> > > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > > CXP33 rim;
> > > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > > I have swapped out the QR and it didn¹t change the noise;
> > > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > > to torque spec (2x!);
> > > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > > torquing per the instructions;
> > > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > > wheels;
> > > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > > of mean tension;
> > > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > > the NDS by gauge #);
> > > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > > pedal stroke;
> > > Mostly the creak isn¹t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > > time but can be LOUD.
>
> > > One other weirdness: *the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > > Campy hubs.
>
> > > I am leaning toward either:
>
> > > 1. Pawls
> > > 2. Freehub
> > > 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> > > Any other suggestions? *Help! *I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it¹s a POS. *Or
> > > so I am starting to think.
>
> > Suggestion. Stop fixing it, and locate the creak.
>
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> Hmmm... I thought what I was doing was eliminating possibilities and
> thereby locating the creak. *Obviously, the re-install of the cassette
> twice was a bit of flailing.
>
> Putting it on the trainer was one attempt to do so. *My helpful spouse
> was going to crouch near the rear wheel and try to locate the noise.
> However, as noted above, I could not reproduce it on the trainer. *So
> locating the noise other than somewhere in the rear wheel will require
> deductive efforts rather than empirical.
>
> Or so I think. *Got any better suggestions?
>
> One other note: *included with the entirely auf Deutsch instructions
> was a computer printed note indicating that 40 nm was the recommended
> torque for the lockring rather than the Campy recommended 50 nm.
>
> I have been adhering to that torque value.
>
> D'ohBoy

Since it cannot be reproduced on a trainer, I think it is the rim. On
a trainer, most of the rest of the components (except axle to frame)
get the same stress on a trainer as riding. Perhaps an eyelet is loose
in the rim?

Joseph

[D'ohBoy]

On May 3, 7:53 am, "
> wrote:
> On May 3, 2:30 pm, "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 11:08 pm, Michael Press > wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> > > > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > > > Here are the particulars:
>
> > > > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > > > CXP33 rim;
> > > > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > > > I have swapped out the QR and it didn¹t change the noise;
> > > > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > > > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > > > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > > > to torque spec (2x!);
> > > > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > > > torquing per the instructions;
> > > > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > > > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > > > wheels;
> > > > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > > > of mean tension;
> > > > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > > > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > > > the NDS by gauge #);
> > > > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > > > pedal stroke;
> > > > Mostly the creak isn¹t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > > > time but can be LOUD.
>
> > > > One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > > > Campy hubs.
>
> > > > I am leaning toward either:
>
> > > > 1. Pawls
> > > > 2. Freehub
> > > > 3. Some combination of the above 2
>
> > > > Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > > > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > > > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it¹s a POS. Or
> > > > so I am starting to think.
>
> > > Suggestion. Stop fixing it, and locate the creak.
>
> > > --
> > > Michael Press
>
> > Hmmm... I thought what I was doing was eliminating possibilities and
> > thereby locating the creak. Obviously, the re-install of the cassette
> > twice was a bit of flailing.
>
> > Putting it on the trainer was one attempt to do so. My helpful spouse
> > was going to crouch near the rear wheel and try to locate the noise.
> > However, as noted above, I could not reproduce it on the trainer. So
> > locating the noise other than somewhere in the rear wheel will require
> > deductive efforts rather than empirical.
>
> > Or so I think. Got any better suggestions?
>
> > One other note: included with the entirely auf Deutsch instructions
> > was a computer printed note indicating that 40 nm was the recommended
> > torque for the lockring rather than the Campy recommended 50 nm.
>
> > I have been adhering to that torque value.
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> Since it cannot be reproduced on a trainer, I think it is the rim. On
> a trainer, most of the rest of the components (except axle to frame)
> get the same stress on a trainer as riding. Perhaps an eyelet is loose
> in the rim?
>
> Joseph

Thats what I was thinking but the CXP33 has those inserts rather than
eyelets. And the spokes are tight. Hmmm... NDS, perhaps?

I'll keep hacking at it and let you all know if it gets solved.

D'ohBoy

[Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com]

On May 2, 7:44*pm, "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> Here are the particulars:
>
> Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> CXP33 rim;
> 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> I have swapped out the QR and it didn’t change the noise;
> I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> to torque spec (2x!);
> I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> torquing per the instructions;
> I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> wheels;
> I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> of mean tension;
> DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> the NDS by gauge #);
> The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> pedal stroke;
> Mostly the creak isn’t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> time but can be LOUD.
>
> One other weirdness: *the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> Campy hubs.
>
> I am leaning toward either:
>
> 1. * * *Pawls
> 2. * * *Freehub
> 3. * * *Some combination of the above 2
>
> Any other suggestions? *Help! *I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it’s a POS. *Or
> so I am starting to think.
>
> D'ohBoy

Standing or seated? I spent 2 hours yesterday trying to find a click I
was sure was around the BB/crank/pedals(Litespeed with Record) and it
turned out to be the saddle/seatpost.

[datakoll]

take it apart

[D'ohBoy]

On May 3, 9:51 am, datakoll > wrote:
> take it apart

Nice! If you could see the (at a minimum) thrice photocopied exploded
diagram that came with the hub - Yikes! This isn't an ISO 9000 outfit
for sure. May make a great hub, but they don't invest in localization
nor high quality printing and documentation.

And everything auf Deutsch.

Anyhoo... the prize goes to Joseph! Those inserts that are in the
spoke holes on the CXP33 must not always seat right. And I only
stress-relieved the wheel once, mid-build, IIRC. So I stress-relieved
it again, and on one spoke there was a slight creak when the spokes
were squeezed.

And the wheel went out of true.

No wind-up in my wheels tho (use the mark and observe method). Noted
as well the overall tension in the wheel had dropped! I trued and
tensioned the wheel again and then rode up and down the driveway for
about a half hour, grinding hard, spinning, and all efforts between.
No creak.

So I checked the wheel again, and there was a small but significant
change in the trueness. Checked the tension and it was about the
same. Trued, stress relieved, and raised the average DS tension to
about 115 kgf. Rode it up and down the driveway again. No creak.

At least I know where to start looking if the noise starts up again!
And I do find this experience strange as the last CXP33 rims I built
up built fast, easy and well. Even played Ben Hur with a buddy (his
QR nut took out about 6 spokes) and rebuilt them and they are still
going in perfect condition, no noises.

Thanks again to all for their efforts!

D'ohBoy

[daveornee[_194_]]

D'ohBoy Wrote:
> On May 3, 9:51 am, datakoll > wrote:
> > take it apart
>
> Nice! If you could see the (at a minimum) thrice photocopied exploded
> diagram that came with the hub - Yikes! This isn't an ISO 9000 outfit
> for sure. May make a great hub, but they don't invest in localization
> nor high quality printing and documentation.
>
> And everything auf Deutsch.
>
> Anyhoo... the prize goes to Joseph! Those inserts that are in the
> spoke holes on the CXP33 must not always seat right. And I only
> stress-relieved the wheel once, mid-build, IIRC. So I stress-relieved
> it again, and on one spoke there was a slight creak when the spokes
> were squeezed.
>
> And the wheel went out of true.
>
> No wind-up in my wheels tho (use the mark and observe method). Noted
> as well the overall tension in the wheel had dropped! I trued and
> tensioned the wheel again and then rode up and down the driveway for
> about a half hour, grinding hard, spinning, and all efforts between.
> No creak.
>
> So I checked the wheel again, and there was a small but significant
> change in the trueness. Checked the tension and it was about the
> same. Trued, stress relieved, and raised the average DS tension to
> about 115 kgf. Rode it up and down the driveway again. No creak.
>
> At least I know where to start looking if the noise starts up again!
> And I do find this experience strange as the last CXP33 rims I built
> up built fast, easy and well. Even played Ben Hur with a buddy (his
> QR nut took out about 6 spokes) and rebuilt them and they are still
> going in perfect condition, no noises.
>
> Thanks again to all for their efforts!
>
> D'ohBoy
CXP-33 nipple/insert interface can be fussy.
Even the spring clips that hold the inserts in place can make noises.
I had one CXP-33 that I rebuilt where I coated the nipple/insert
interface with Anit-Seize lubricant to make the noises go away. Things
were quiet and stable for over 2,000 miles when the spring clips started
creaking and clicking. I pulled them all out and then things stayed
silent until the rim finally died at over 12,000 miles... mostly due to
brake track wear.


--
daveornee

[D'ohBoy]

On May 3, 10:56 am, daveornee <daveornee.38u...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> D'ohBoy Wrote:
>
> > On May 3, 9:51 am, datakoll > wrote:
> > > take it apart
>
> > Nice! If you could see the (at a minimum) thrice photocopied exploded
> > diagram that came with the hub - Yikes! This isn't an ISO 9000 outfit
> > for sure. May make a great hub, but they don't invest in localization
> > nor high quality printing and documentation.
>
> > And everything auf Deutsch.
>
> > Anyhoo... the prize goes to Joseph! Those inserts that are in the
> > spoke holes on the CXP33 must not always seat right. And I only
> > stress-relieved the wheel once, mid-build, IIRC. So I stress-relieved
> > it again, and on one spoke there was a slight creak when the spokes
> > were squeezed.
>
> > And the wheel went out of true.
>
> > No wind-up in my wheels tho (use the mark and observe method). Noted
> > as well the overall tension in the wheel had dropped! I trued and
> > tensioned the wheel again and then rode up and down the driveway for
> > about a half hour, grinding hard, spinning, and all efforts between.
> > No creak.
>
> > So I checked the wheel again, and there was a small but significant
> > change in the trueness. Checked the tension and it was about the
> > same. Trued, stress relieved, and raised the average DS tension to
> > about 115 kgf. Rode it up and down the driveway again. No creak.
>
> > At least I know where to start looking if the noise starts up again!
> > And I do find this experience strange as the last CXP33 rims I built
> > up built fast, easy and well. Even played Ben Hur with a buddy (his
> > QR nut took out about 6 spokes) and rebuilt them and they are still
> > going in perfect condition, no noises.
>
> > Thanks again to all for their efforts!
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> CXP-33 nipple/insert interface can be fussy.
> Even the spring clips that hold the inserts in place can make noises.
> I had one CXP-33 that I rebuilt where I coated the nipple/insert
> interface with Anit-Seize lubricant to make the noises go away. Things
> were quiet and stable for over 2,000 miles when the spring clips started
> creaking and clicking. I pulled them all out and then things stayed
> silent until the rim finally died at over 12,000 miles... mostly due to
> brake track wear.
>
> --
> daveornee

Hi, Dave -

You removed the spring clips? Do they come out easy or is there a lot
of bending and twisting with needlenose pliers? I probably shoulda
putzed with one somewhere along the line so I had a clear
understanding of what things look like in there.

Peter White loves these rims. I loved my last pair which I built up
as a super duty 36 spoke f/r with 14/15 ga spokes. Sold them to a
larger buddy of mine (~260 lbs and 6'5") who kept complaining about
his 36 spoke Aeroheads going out of true. HAH! Aeroheads for a 260
lb dude who rides the Pyrenees? You gotta be kidding me - I don't
care how many spokes on that rim, he's just too big.

I realized I could go much lighter and still be durable under my ~210
lb avg wt so I helped a brother out. He mentions frequently that they
feel heavier than his old wheels - but only lifting the bike. Funny
thing though, they are rock solid and true 6 mos later. A period he
woulda fussed with his old wheelset three or four times.

Thanks for the info!

D'ohBoy

[Michael Press]

In article
>,
"D'ohBoy" > wrote:

> On May 2, 11:08 pm, Michael Press > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> > "D'ohBoy" > wrote:
> > > So I am getting creaking that I have isolated to my new rear wheel.
> > > Here are the particulars:
> >
> > > Tune Campy-compatible hub;
> > > CXP33 rim;
> > > 32 spokes, 3x 14/15 DS, radial CX-Ray NDS;
> > > I have swapped out the QR and it didn¹t change the noise;
> > > I moved it to a different frame and the noise followed the wheel;
> > > I was unable to make the creak occur on the trainer;
> > > I have removed, cleaned, greased (lightly) and installed the cassette
> > > to torque spec (2x!);
> > > I rotated the cassette against the splines on the freehub prior to
> > > torquing per the instructions;
> > > I lubed the spoke holes with Prolink (needle applicator);
> > > I lubed the nipple shoulders with bearing grease when I built the
> > > wheels;
> > > I checked the spoke tension all the way round and none was outside 5%
> > > of mean tension;
> > > DS tension is 110 kgf ;
> > > NDS is whatever dishes it properly (I set the drive side and even up
> > > the NDS by gauge #);
> > > The creak comes and goes like it comes in and out of phase with my
> > > pedal stroke;
> > > Mostly the creak isn¹t there and can be gone for an extended period of
> > > time but can be LOUD.
> >
> > > One other weirdness: the hub appears to be about 2.5 mm wider than my
> > > Campy hubs.
> >
> > > I am leaning toward either:
> >
> > > 1. Pawls
> > > 2. Freehub
> > > 3. Some combination of the above 2
> >
> > > Any other suggestions? Help! I spent a crapload on that freaking hub
> > > and had a hell of a long wait and one mis-shipment of a shimano-
> > > compatible hub and an exchange before I got it and now it¹s a POS. Or
> > > so I am starting to think.
> >
> > Suggestion. Stop fixing it, and locate the creak.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> Hmmm... I thought what I was doing was eliminating possibilities and
> thereby locating the creak. Obviously, the re-install of the cassette
> twice was a bit of flailing.
>
> Putting it on the trainer was one attempt to do so. My helpful spouse
> was going to crouch near the rear wheel and try to locate the noise.
> However, as noted above, I could not reproduce it on the trainer. So
> locating the noise other than somewhere in the rear wheel will require
> deductive efforts rather than empirical.
>
> Or so I think. Got any better suggestions?
>
> One other note: included with the entirely auf Deutsch instructions
> was a computer printed note indicating that 40 nm was the recommended
> torque for the lockring rather than the Campy recommended 50 nm.
>
> I have been adhering to that torque value.

Try different riding techniques and determine which
generate the creak and those that do not.
Pedal or do not pedal
One foot pedaling, each foot by turns.
Hand on the bars, hands off the bars, one hand on the bars,
different hand positions.
Standing, seated.

These creaks can come from anywhere, and the frame will
transmit them a several times the speed of sound in air.
Very confusing.
Folks have discovered odd creaks and ticks from all over:
saddle, seat post, helmet, shoe lace on crank, ...

--
Michael Press

[daveornee[_196_]]

D'ohBoy Wrote:
> On May 3, 10:56 am, daveornee <daveornee.38u...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > D'ohBoy Wrote:
> >
> > > On May 3, 9:51 am, datakoll > wrote:
> > > > take it apart
> >
> > > Nice! If you could see the (at a minimum) thrice photocopied
> exploded
> > > diagram that came with the hub - Yikes! This isn't an ISO 9000
> outfit
> > > for sure. May make a great hub, but they don't invest in
> localization
> > > nor high quality printing and documentation.
> >
> > > And everything auf Deutsch.
> >
> > > Anyhoo... the prize goes to Joseph! Those inserts that are in the
> > > spoke holes on the CXP33 must not always seat right. And I only
> > > stress-relieved the wheel once, mid-build, IIRC. So I
> stress-relieved
> > > it again, and on one spoke there was a slight creak when the
> spokes
> > > were squeezed.
> >
> > > And the wheel went out of true.
> >
> > > No wind-up in my wheels tho (use the mark and observe method).
> Noted
> > > as well the overall tension in the wheel had dropped! I trued and
> > > tensioned the wheel again and then rode up and down the driveway
> for
> > > about a half hour, grinding hard, spinning, and all efforts
> between.
> > > No creak.
> >
> > > So I checked the wheel again, and there was a small but
> significant
> > > change in the trueness. Checked the tension and it was about the
> > > same. Trued, stress relieved, and raised the average DS tension
> to
> > > about 115 kgf. Rode it up and down the driveway again. No creak.
> >
> > > At least I know where to start looking if the noise starts up
> again!
> > > And I do find this experience strange as the last CXP33 rims I
> built
> > > up built fast, easy and well. Even played Ben Hur with a buddy
> (his
> > > QR nut took out about 6 spokes) and rebuilt them and they are
> still
> > > going in perfect condition, no noises.
> >
> > > Thanks again to all for their efforts!
> >
> > > D'ohBoy
> >
> > CXP-33 nipple/insert interface can be fussy.
> > Even the spring clips that hold the inserts in place can make
> noises.
> > I had one CXP-33 that I rebuilt where I coated the nipple/insert
> > interface with Anit-Seize lubricant to make the noises go away.
> Things
> > were quiet and stable for over 2,000 miles when the spring clips
> started
> > creaking and clicking. I pulled them all out and then things stayed
> > silent until the rim finally died at over 12,000 miles... mostly due
> to
> > brake track wear.
> >
> > --
> > daveornee
>
> Hi, Dave -
>
> You removed the spring clips? Do they come out easy or is there a lot
> of bending and twisting with needlenose pliers? I probably shoulda
> putzed with one somewhere along the line so I had a clear
> understanding of what things look like in there.
>
> Peter White loves these rims. I loved my last pair which I built up
> as a super duty 36 spoke f/r with 14/15 ga spokes. Sold them to a
> larger buddy of mine (~260 lbs and 6'5") who kept complaining about
> his 36 spoke Aeroheads going out of true. HAH! Aeroheads for a 260
> lb dude who rides the Pyrenees? You gotta be kidding me - I don't
> care how many spokes on that rim, he's just too big.
>
> I realized I could go much lighter and still be durable under my ~210
> lb avg wt so I helped a brother out. He mentions frequently that they
> feel heavier than his old wheels - but only lifting the bike. Funny
> thing though, they are rock solid and true 6 mos later. A period he
> woulda fussed with his old wheelset three or four times.
>
> Thanks for the info!
>
> D'ohBoy
It has been a while since I removed the spring clips, but I think they
came out easily with a fine needle nose pliers. They serve no
structural purpose other than holding in the inserts (they don't tie the
rim walls together like sockets in Open Pro or T520/A519). If I hadn't
already had the wheel "perfectly" built, I likely would have pulled the
inserts and put a coating of anti-seize lubricant on the rim/insert
interface. I think that corrosion and disimilar metals are a cause of
some of the noises I experienced.
I don't think it is "fair" to compare CXP-33 to Aerohead. I think a
closer comparison is CXP-33 to Fusion. I have had significantly better
results with most current Velocity rims than current Mavic rims.


--
daveornee

[A Muzi]

daveornee wrote:
> I have had significantly better
> results with most current Velocity rims than current Mavic rims.

Much agreed. Maybe even an understatement.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Andrew Muzi wrote:
> daveornee wrote:
>> I have had significantly better
>> results with most current Velocity rims than current Mavic rims.
>
> Much agreed. Maybe even an understatement.

Don't tell Bourbon Man!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful