SPD Agony!

[Artemisia[_2_]]

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
which I nearly did the other day). I thought this would be the
ultimate comfort ride as there is none of the pain in the crotch or
wrists that used to terminate previous rides on two wheels. But that
pain was trifling in comparison to this foot agony.

The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.
Every pedal stroke is so excrucuating that I have to stop every 3 km
or so just to try and get circulation going again. I cannot walk in
them at all - very slippery and stiff, despite the fact that these are
supposed to be used on trail where one is often off the bike.

I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.

Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
like the fast route to amputation.

Your experiences?

Thanks.

EFR
In deepest Provence

[[email protected]]

On May 6, 12:37*pm, Artemisia > wrote:
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
> in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
> grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
> torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
> required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
> which I nearly did the other day). I thought this would be the
> ultimate comfort ride as there is none of the pain in the crotch or
> wrists that used to terminate previous rides on two wheels. But that
> pain was trifling in comparison to this foot agony.
>
> The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.
> Every pedal stroke is so excrucuating that I have to stop every 3 km
> or so just to try and get circulation going again. I cannot walk in
> them at all - very slippery and stiff, despite the fact that these are
> supposed to be used on trail where one is often off the bike.
>
> I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
> the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
> more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
> lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.
>
> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>
> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
> to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
> like the fast route to amputation.
>
> Your experiences?
>
> Thanks.
>
> EFR
> In deepest Provence

sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
your shoes are not stiff enough- you are going to have to invest in
better shoes

[Jim]

"Artemisia" > wrote in message
...
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.

Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
they're under my arches.

Jim J

[Mark T[_2_]]

Artemisia writtificated

> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.

Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
essential you try them on before buying.

When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my toes
a little.

For touring a shoe with a more flexible sole is desirable - this makes it
easier to walk in.

[Mark T[_2_]]

Raaman writtificated

> sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
> your shoes are not stiff enough

This is unlikely in this case as her shoes[1] are about as stiff (and as
good) as mountain bike shoes get.

Fiddling with the cleat position on the off-chance that'll help, and
loosening the velcro in case the shoe is too small is prolly the best thing
to do until replacements can be bought. Alternatively it is perfectly
possible to cycle with normal shoes on, but this may lead to an Accident.


[1] <www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=26123>

[Artemisia[_2_]]

On 6 mai, 18:50, "Jim" > wrote:
> "Artemisia" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> > unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> > Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.
>
> Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
> I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
> they're under my arches.
>
> * Jim J

They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
and the holes are only in one place.

I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it
when it starts hurting.

Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
comfortable they are!

EFR
Isle sur Sorgue

[naked_draughtsman[_3_]]

On Tue, 06 May 2008 10:05:54 -0700, Artemisia wrote:

> They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
> pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
> farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
> and the holes are only in one place.

Mine only have two screw holes, but they screw into a plate which can
slide back and forth (slotted holes in the sole of the shoe itself).

Under your toes sounds too far forward - under the balls of your feet
would be better. If you're bending your foot too much and putting a lot
of force through your foot then it will hurt quite a lot (like running
around on your tip toes all the time).

> I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
> has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it when
> it starts hurting.

I often get a lot of numbness in my feet when riding (only notice when I
stop and take shoes off), and my feet also go cold. I think it's just
because the laces are tight: LBS told me that feet swell a bit when being
used so if my laces are tight when I set off then they'll be too tight
after a few miles!

Also, are your innersoles worn? I replaced mine with cheap ones when I
washed the shoes. They were ok for a while but now I can feel the cleat
through the shoe as they've worn a bit. The original insoles were really
rigid but the new ones were really soft.

Not hurting on an upright bike though is puzzling me though!

peter

[Martin Dann]

Artemisia wrote:
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

It might be worth trying some padded inserts, esp. if tissues help.

Do you have funny shaped feet? If your shoes claim to be ergonomic, then
they might fit 90% of people really well, and be terrible for the other
10%.

As for moving the cleats, they are often attached to a plate in the
shoe, which can slide forwards and backwards.

Martin.

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Artemisia wrote:
>They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
>pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
>farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
>and the holes are only in one place.

Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
forward and back at least a little bit.


>Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
>comfortable they are!

No shoe shape can be really comfortable for everyone - feet are different,
they aren't all just the same but scaled up and down a bit in size.

[vernon[_2_]]

"Mark T"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_r eply*.com.invalid> wrote
in message ...
> Artemisia writtificated
>
>> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?
>
> Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
> shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.

I agree with the diagnosis. I suffered from severe burning sensations in the
balls of my feet and initially blamed the lack of padding in my socks. I
bought some padded sports socks and they made the problems worse. I
stumbled across the counter intuitive loosening of the shoe laces solution
by chance.
>
> Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
> essential you try them on before buying.
>
> When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
> touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
> toes
> a little.
>
> For touring a shoe with a more flexible sole is desirable - this makes it
> easier to walk in.

It's not that important if a spare pair of shoes are carried too.

[Camilo]

Artemisia, you need to check out three things. Your problems are NOT
the result of poor quality shoes (yours are top quality) or the SPD
system in itself.

FIND NEW SHOES. I believe your shoes do not fit. They should feel
comfortable, period. You describe obviously ill-fitting shoes. Bad
fitting shoes can press nerves and blood vessels and cause all sorts
of problems consistent with your pain.

LOOSEN YOUR SHOES. You may be tightening them too tight. Even with
well-fitting shoes, if they are too tight, you can compress nerves and
blood vessels causing pain, numbness and long term problems.

ADJUST YOUR CLEATS so that they are directly under the balls of your
feet, more or less (maybe a tiny bit forward, maybe a tiny bit
rearward). The bottoms of your shoes have two slots. In those slots
are little nuts that your cleat bolts screw into. If you loosen your
cleat bolts, you can slide them lengthwise along those slots. Every
SPD shoe has these slots because they need to be adjustable.

Unfortunately, you might have injured your feet already by waiting too
long, and rest of the injured areas might be needed. In the mean
time, after you have done the above corrections, you might have to
treat your feet as if they are injured:

Rest as much as possible. Reduce time pedaling, or take more frequent
breaks.

Ice them down after use to ease pain and reduce injury inflamation.

Use an over the counter medicine such as ibuprophen or naproxen as
directed on the package.

[terryJ]

Martin Dann wrote:
>
> Artemisia wrote:
>> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
>> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.
>
> It might be worth trying some padded inserts, esp. if tissues help.
>
> Do you have funny shaped feet? If your shoes claim to be ergonomic, then
> they might fit 90% of people really well, and be terrible for the other
> 10%.
>
> As for moving the cleats, they are often attached to a plate in the
> shoe, which can slide forwards and backwards.
>
> Martin.
>

My strategy would be to fiddle with the cleat position, loosen the
straps and laces, then wear a cheapish pair of touring shoes in a
generous size, such as specialised sonoma.You might feel you want to get
away from specialised. Decathlon do some. A more flexible comfy shoe
might be the answer. I find that rigid road shoes hurt by the end of a
200km ride, as you might expect if you strapped your feet to a rigid
board for the whole day.

I suppose it could not be that you are sitting on your sciatic nerves or
disturbing blood flow to the legs could it? I have had that problem on
gymn equipment and aeroplane seats, though it does not sound exactly
right except when you wrote that you felt you had to get the circulation
going again.
TerryJ

[DennisTheBald]

It sounds like your shoes are too small. Or maybe your pedals, even
though you've gone clipless bent riders tend to pedal less "round"
than wedgie riders and I find a nice big platform around the cleat to
be more comfortable.

That aside, when I first got 'bent I discovered that after an hour or
two with my feet up higher than by butt my toes would go to sleep.
This didn't seem like a big deal as I had spent many long years
conditioning myself so that I could ride a wedgie for hours at a time
and I undertook a similar training regime for my 'bent. Now I try to
spend at least two hours a day with my feet up higher than my butt
while carb-loading and hydrating. (yes that would be in a
barcalounger with a cold beer, you bet)

[Roger Zoul]

"Artemisia" > wrote in message
...
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
> in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
> grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
> torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
> required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
> which I nearly did the other day). I thought this would be the
> ultimate comfort ride as there is none of the pain in the crotch or
> wrists that used to terminate previous rides on two wheels. But that
> pain was trifling in comparison to this foot agony.
>
> The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.
> Every pedal stroke is so excrucuating that I have to stop every 3 km
> or so just to try and get circulation going again. I cannot walk in
> them at all - very slippery and stiff, despite the fact that these are
> supposed to be used on trail where one is often off the bike.
>
> I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
> the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
> more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
> lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.
>
> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>
> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
> to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
> like the fast route to amputation.

This problem is known as hot foot.

I think others have given you good info.

The thing about shoes (and any bike equipment for that matter) is your never
go off on a tour (where the miles increase a lot) without having throroughly
tested the equipment under the expected conditions (or as close as
possible) - including mileage and tempertature.

Hot foot problems increase as the temps go up.

Sounds as if the shoes are ill-fitting and the cleats are not position far
enough toward your heals.

Taking some Tylenol can be a big help once the problems start. Otherwise,
you just have to stop and get the pressure off the nerves in your feet.

Oh, the position on your feet (high relatively to your butt) on a trike can
result in circulation problems for some people. This is typically not an
issue on an upright. You may be one of those people.

[Doki]

wrote:

> sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
> your shoes are not stiff enough- you are going to have to invest in
> better shoes

IME wearing anything that's a) stiff soled and b) a bit on the small side
gives me a lot of pain. I reckon the shoes might be a bit small or laced up
too tight - I know my SPD shoes got a lot comfier when I laced them more
loosely.

[Tim Dunne]

"Artemisia" > wrote in message
...

> Your experiences?


Firstly, if you're having so much trouble clipping in and out, loosen the
spring tension adjuster riiiiight off, it sounds way to tight.

I have wide feet, and whilst I liked spuds, they caused dead toes for me
after 20 or so miles (I'd used straps for years up until then). After 3
different pairs of shoes and various cleat positions, in desperation I went
to the LBS who fitted me out with Look Keo's and a pair of Nike shoes (Nike
don't sell bike kit anymore, sadly). I've never looked back - the shoes are
comfy and after minor fiddling the position is fine and I can do 150 miles
without painful feet.

My only whinge about the Keo system is that the cleats and pedals wear
badly, but it#s a small price to pay for comfort...

Tim
--
We got a thousand points of light | Greetings from Birmingham, UK
For the homeless man | All about me: www.nervouscyclist.org
We got a kinder, gentler, | Is your ISP pimping your data?
Machine gun hand Neil Young | www.badphorm.co.uk

[Pete Biggs]

Artemisia wrote:
> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer.

Several minutes!!!!??!!!!!!!! There's something very wrong going on -
either with your equipment or your technique. Have the pedal tension low,
experiement more with cleat position, and keep practising.

> The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>
> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

It should never be painful to unclip.

As for pain whilst cycling, you don't get used to it, and you should not
perservere with it indefinitely, but it might just go away on its own.

I also experienced various foot pains when I first used clipless pedals -
even after I had adjusted everything as best as possible - but it did
disappear after a while. Now for 99.9% of the time, my feet feel more
comfortable when I am cycling than when I am walking (in any shoes).

Try different cleat positions, think about whether your seat position is OK
too, and give it a few more rides. If still pain, try different shoes,
maybe different pedals as well. Best of luck.

As well as the cleats being adjustable sideways, you will be able to rotate
them. The direction they point is crucial, and you can only get it really
right by trial and error.

~PB

[[email protected]]

Roger Zoul wrote:

> This problem is known as hot foot.

> I think others have given you good info.

> The thing about shoes (and any bike equipment for that matter) is
> your never go off on a tour (where the miles increase a lot) without
> having thoroughly tested the equipment under the expected
> conditions (or as close as possible) - including mileage and
> temperature.

> Hot foot problems increase as the temps go up.

> Sounds as if the shoes are ill-fitting and the cleats are not
> position far enough toward your heals.

> Taking some Tylenol can be a big help once the problems start.
> Otherwise, you just have to stop and get the pressure off the nerves
> in your feet.

> Oh, the position on your feet (high relatively to your butt) on a
> trike can result in circulation problems for some people. This is
> typically not an issue on an upright. You may be one of those
> people.

Hot foot increases with age as circulation to extremities diminishes.
If susceptible, making sure the foot rises (or fully unloads) the sole
intermittently while pedaling to increase circulation.

Jobst Brandt

[Doki]

> wrote in message ...
> On 6 May,
> "Doki" > wrote:
>
>> IME wearing anything that's a) stiff soled and b) a bit on the small side
>> gives me a lot of pain. I reckon the shoes might be a bit small or laced
>> up
>> too tight - I know my SPD shoes got a lot comfier when I laced them more
>> loosely.
>>
> I got new shoes recently, my previous pair was too big. Half a mile into
> first ride I was getting pain in one foot. Slight adjustment to the cleat
> cured it. I must adjust the other one slightly.
>
> Tight (well fitting) shoes are probably more critical of cleat position.
> It's
> probably worth trying slight adjustments.

I don't mean pain in particular. I mean pain combined with a bizarre feeling
of slight numbness. In fact, it's more agony.

[Martin Dann]

Artemisia wrote:

> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip

That is extremely odd. It takes less than a second for me to clip in the
right foot when stationary, and a few seconds to clip in the left once
moving.

and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

To unclip, you should just need to twist the foot. Again, I can unclip
both feet in half a second.
If you need to push the shoe down to unclip, it suggests that something
on the show is catching the pedal, which also suggests the cleat is
incorrectly positioned.

What happens if you take the shoe off, and put it on your hand, and clip
it in, and unclip it. Can you see something obviously catching.

Martin.

[Bob]

On May 6, 11:37*am, Artemisia > wrote
a rather long post about foot pain that included the statements-
1- "I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size."
and
2- "Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it."

As for #1, based on your description of how they feel they sure don't
seem to be the "appropriate" size. Buy new shoes.
As for #2, have you checked your cleats for damage and adjusted the
tension screws on the pedals? While some downward force might be
applied, unclipping from SPDs doesn't *require* any. It's a simple
twist of the foot.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Mark T wrote:
> Artemisia writtificated
>
>> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?
>
> Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
> shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.
>
> Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
> essential you try them on before buying.
>
> When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
> touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my toes
> a little.[...]

Too tight shoes are even more of a problem on a recumbent with the
bottom bracket at or above seat level. I have a pair of Shimano ATB
shoes which are a little narrow. These shoes are fine on the ATB and the
low bottom bracket recumbent, but cause pain and a burning feeling when
used on a higher bottom bracket recumbent.

One alternative to clipless pedals are heel slings, but I am not aware
of these being commercially available at this time - please post links
if available.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> [...]
> Hot foot increases with age as circulation to extremities diminishes.
> If susceptible, making sure the foot rises (or fully unloads) the sole
> intermittently while pedaling to increase circulation.

A very expensive solution:
<http://www.powercranks.com/products/powercranks_xlite.htm>. ;)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> Mark T wrote:
>> Artemisia writtificated
>>
>>> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?
>>
>> Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
>> shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.
>>
>> Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
>> essential you try them on before buying.
>>
>> When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
>> touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
>> toes a little.[...]
>
> Too tight shoes are even more of a problem on a recumbent with the bottom
> bracket at or above seat level. I have a pair of Shimano ATB shoes which
> are a little narrow. These shoes are fine on the ATB and the low bottom
> bracket recumbent, but cause pain and a burning feeling when used on a
> higher bottom bracket recumbent.

What a laugh the above statement is. High bottom brackets recumbents will
cause many problems because we are not evolved to have our feet over our
hips. But Mr. Sherman has spent many thousands of dollars on high bottom
bracket recumbent bikes, and so he is bound to defend such monstrosities.

For heaven's sakes, you do not want a recumbent with a bottom bracket higher
than the seat base. This is so elementary that I am sick and tired of
explaining it to idiots like Tom Sherman. Get that bottom bracket slightly
below the seat base and everything will be just fine. All this palaver about
shoe fit is nonsense once you get your feet below your hips.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[wafflycat]

"Artemisia" > wrote in message
...
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
> in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
> grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
> torture.

They sound like shoes that actually aren't the correct size but are too
small. As others have suggested, an insole can help, but your shoes sound
too small already... I use a Sorbothane insert on my road shoes and find it
helps, but from the sound of your shoes - I doubt you'd get an insole and
foot in your shoes.

Plus play around with cleat position.

[dkahn400]

On May 7, 6:32*am, "wafflycat" > wrote:

> They sound like shoes that actually aren't the correct size but are too
> small. As others have suggested, an insole can help, but your shoes
> sound too small already... I use a Sorbothane insert on my road shoes
> and find it helps, but from the sound of your shoes - I doubt you'd get > an insole and foot in your shoes.
>
> Plus play around with cleat position.

Hotfoot is agony when it strikes. You need to get as much ventilation
to the feet as you can. The temporary solution is to remove your socks
and have the shoes done up as loosely as possible. Never mind
pedalling efficiency, at this point it's a question of survival,
especially for a diabetic. You should be aware that you should never
wear tight shoes of any kind.

As Jobst says, pulling on the upstroke will relieve the constant
pressure on the sole. If the shoes are grating over the toes then they
are simply the wrong fit and they are no good for that rider.

The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

You've really got to admire Artemisia's persistance against many
setbacks, but a diabetic with severe foot pain should seriously
consider abandoning the tour.

--
Dave...

[dkahn400]

On May 6, 10:43*pm, "Pete Biggs"
<p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitbiggs. tc> wrote:

> It should never be painful to unclip.

I think Artemisia's clipping/unclipping problem is that her feet have
got so sensitive that she cannot press down with sufficient force to
clip in.

Artimisia, you do not have to press down to clip out. Just twist the
foot. As for the clipping in, this will be relieved if you set the
tension on your SPDs to the minimum, but if your feet are that
sensitive, you are having circulation problems, and you are diabetic,
is it really a good idea to carry on with the tour? Apart from the
misery of being in pain you could be setting yourself up for serious
long term health problems. My advise is to get these problems sorted
out, then try again another time.

--
Dave...

[Artemisia[_2_]]

On 6 mai, 19:38, (Alan Braggins) wrote:

> Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
> forward and back at least a little bit.

I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.

Specialized sell a pair of inner soles/arch supports that are supposed
to mitigate foot burn. On every trip, there is always one essential
thing that one omits to bring. This time, since I was already using
some Scholl orthotics for my plantar fascitis, I decided that a second
pair of insoles would be redundant. I'm an idiot! The Scholls are only
useful for walking, and I think the BG insoles could have helped with
this problem.

I do have a pair of normal shoes with me. I'm afraid to use them on
the trike. I'm finding this is quite a hassle, having shoes that can
only walk but not bike, and other shoes that can only bike and not
walk!

EFR
After a wonderful dinner on Isle sur Sorgue

[Peter Clinch]

Artemisia wrote:
> Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.

But are they an appropriate shape? Different manufacturers use
different lasts and all are slightly different shapes, to account for
the variation of human feet. You need to try as many different shoes as
you can to ensure that you have shoes built on a last that corresponds
to your own feet. Also different sizes mean slightly different things
to different manufacturers, sometimes even to the same manufacturer on
different lines: I take a 10 in leather Teva sandals, a 9 in plastic
Teva sandals. My fell shoes are 2E 8.5 New Balance, same as road shoes
from the same make, but the fell shoes are tighter on me. And so on.

> iWhen I put them on
> in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
> grating over the toes

What makes you think these are an appropriate size (or shape) if they're
grating your toes before you get on the bike? The stiffness is actually
an aid to pedalling once you're on the bike, but there should be no
grating of your toes.

> , but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
> torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
> required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
> which I nearly did the other day).

Well... no, not "required". You wouldn't have to go too far to find
someone using one with normal pedals, though personally I would
/recommend/ them.

> I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
> the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
> more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
> lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.

As others have suggested, it sounds like the cleat is in the wrong
place. You should be able to move it by loosening the cleats and
sliding the mounting plate inside the shoe. Take the insole out to do
that more easily.

> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

This reinforces the suspicion that the cleat is in the wrong place. It
should be a second or two at most to get either in or out. Time ATAC
pedals are, IME, slightly easier to get into as you engage along a line
rather than at a point, but there's not that much in it.

> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

No. Cycling shoes are not overly comfortable to walk in, but they
should be comfortable to pedal in or to stand in. Yours aren't even
comfortable to stand in, so I suspect you bought the wrong thing for
you. Also, it sounds like the cleat is in the wrong place, and this
needs a bit of fiddling to get right. By "a bit of fiddling" I mean 10
minutes trial and error on and off the bike, nudging them about until
they feel right. Start with the cleat as far back as it will go and
gradually push them forward, lock them at the right position.

Another piece of advice, do running-in trials of new kit close to home,
by which I mean round your block a few times.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[PoB]

"dkahn400" > wrote in message
...
>On May 7, 6:32 am, "wafflycat" > wrote:
>The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
>may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better than my
shoes (and being British, when it's chilly, I can wear socks :).

One other point I'd come back on, I can't wear Specialized shoes, and whilst
I do like most Spec BG kit, they're not at all right for my feet and cause
me all sorts of problems, maybe because my feet are very narrow - most
Shimano boots and, possibly indicatively, the cheap shoes from Lidl are
better for me.

Best of luck.

pOB

[Dave Larrington]

In ,
dkahn400 > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
> may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

And some of them swear *at* them. Perhaps I've just got odd-shaped plates,
but the only time I tried 'em, my feet were dead after 5km. This is a bit
of a bind when there are still 300 to go :-(

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
My liver is evil, and must be punished.

[Dave Larrington]

In ,
Artemisia > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>
> Is this normal?

In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Also, Spesh's so-called "Body Geometry" stuffs are modelled on a body
almost, but not quite, entirely unlike mine. I had a pair of such shoes
once and suffered similar agonies until I bit the bullet, swallowed the
expense and bought a pair of Carnacs.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Confirmed LOOK user.

[Peter Clinch]

Artemisia wrote:

> I do have a pair of normal shoes with me. I'm afraid to use them on
> the trike. I'm finding this is quite a hassle, having shoes that can
> only walk but not bike, and other shoes that can only bike and not
> walk!

It's not impossible to use SPuD pedals with normal shoes, especially
those with an extended platform.

And it /should/ be okay to walk moderate distances in tour/MTB style
cycle shoes (to the extent where I don't bother taking spare shoes on
tour with me). If you can't walk any distance at all without serious
discomfort then they're just the wrong shoes, I would say.

As with other respondents here, I very much favour SPuD sandals, but one
thing to note is that on a 'bent you'll have a lot more weight than most
folk on the rear strap. Roos had a bit of achilles trouble from that
the first time she had them on a long tour.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Dave Larrington wrote:
>
> In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Note: I suspect Mr. L is complaining about the specific implementation
of the Shimano Pedalling Dynamics (SPD) system, *not* clipless pedals in
general.

Personally I prefer Time ATACs to SPuDs, and I know other regulars on
urc also favour them. Crank Eggbeaters aslo have an enthusiastic
following. The Look system is popular with performance cyclists, but
getting shoes that take the cleats and enable you to walk easily as well
is problematical. ATAC cleats will fit pretty well any shoe that takes
SPuDs. What SPuDs have that these other systems don't is ubiquity, with
many people equating "SPD" and "clipless pedal system". I've not seen
any persuasive argument that they're in any way better than the rest of
the market they dominate.

> Also, Spesh's so-called "Body Geometry" stuffs are modelled on a body
> almost, but not quite, entirely unlike mine.

Haven't tried their shoes since they changed to BG, but the BG saddles
seem to be made up to fit backsides almost, but not quite, entirely
unlike mine.

> I had a pair of such shoes
> once and suffered similar agonies until I bit the bullet, swallowed the
> expense and bought a pair of Carnacs.

You just have to try everything you can. My last shoes were pre-BG
Speccies, which I thought were okay but when they eventually died I
found Diadoras suited me better.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[David Damerell]

Quoting Artemisia >:
>Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
>unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

IIRC you're on a recumbent trike? Suggest abandoning the clips and tying
your feet to the pedals to avoid leg suck - obviously if you're just
strapping them down, you can strap them down in a different position.
--
David Damerell > Distortion Field!
Today is First Sunday, May - a weekend.

[wafflycat]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...
> In ,
> Artemisia > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
>> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
>> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
>> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
>> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>>
>> Is this normal?
>
> In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Must admit, I can't get on with spds. Look pedals/cleats are the ones for
me.

[Roger Merriman]

wafflycat > wrote:

> "Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In ,
> > Artemisia > tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> >
> >> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> >> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> >> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> >> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
> >>
> >> Is this normal?
> >
> > In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> > normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.
>
> Must admit, I can't get on with spds. Look pedals/cleats are the ones for
> me.

i've recently got some SPD peddles to go with the specilised shoes i've
had for a while and the old 10 speed racer.

my knees have never been great far too much yomping down scree slopes as
a lad. so needed the springs set too very loose and seems to work fine
just now and then they require further stamping to connect but steping
out is fine, even on monday when i struck the pedal on the ground, had
forgotten road bikes are so low...

no damadge done bar minor dent to pride!

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Artemisia wrote:
>
>I do have a pair of normal shoes with me. I'm afraid to use them on
>the trike.

You could consider changing to traditional toeclips with straps, but
I have a suspicion that just doing up a strap tight enough that a foot
in a recumbent riding position can't possibly fall out will be painfully
restrictive given your current problems. Maybe someone with actual
experience can comment - it might still be better than going on as
you are.
(If you nailed traditional cleats to the bottom of your shoes as well,
then the traditional clips and straps would be more secure, but then
they wouldn't be normal shoes for walking in any more. Assuming they
are the sort of shoe you could nail things to the sole in the first place,
which they probably aren't)

The usual downside of the traditional system is that it's harder to get
out of when done up tight than clipless pedals (you have to reach down
and loosen the strap first), but since you are on a trike, you won't fall
over if you can't put a foot down (which is a good thing, given the problems
you are having with the clipless pedals - but that isn't normal).

Or try something like these: http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/pg_benefits.shtml

But, as other people have said, properly fitting SPD shoes with recessed
cleats shouldn't cause the problems you describe and it should be possible
to walk in them.

[Alan Braggins]

In article >, Peter Clinch wrote:
>you. Also, it sounds like the cleat is in the wrong place, and this
>needs a bit of fiddling to get right. By "a bit of fiddling" I mean 10
>minutes trial and error on and off the bike, nudging them about until
>they feel right. Start with the cleat as far back as it will go and
>gradually push them forward, lock them at the right position.

But do remember that every time you nudge them, you do have to do them up
tight enough that you can unclip without wrenching them out of position
when you try them on the pedals.
This is probably so obvious to Pete that it went without saying, and
maybe is to you as well, but I mention it just in case, because it's
quite embarrassing when you forget. I mean, um, so I hear....

[Peter Clinch]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> You could consider changing to traditional toeclips with straps, but
> I have a suspicion that just doing up a strap tight enough that a foot
> in a recumbent riding position can't possibly fall out will be painfully
> restrictive given your current problems.

at the bottom of http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/specials.shtml
there's a Hase product with a heel stirrup, specifically for using on
recumbents with a toe strap. Never used them, but compared to a
practised twist in a decent clipless system I imagine they'd be much
more of a faff getting in and out.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Alan Braggins wrote:

> But do remember that every time you nudge them, you do have to do them up
> tight enough that you can unclip without wrenching them out of position
> when you try them on the pedals.
> This is probably so obvious to Pete that it went without saying, and
> maybe is to you as well, but I mention it just in case, because it's
> quite embarrassing when you forget. I mean, um, so I hear....

Good point!

Less embarrassing on a trike, mind you, you just unlace your shoes and
step out of them and then try and lever them off the pedal by hand,
rather than keel over sideways and land in the road, inevitably in front
of spectators. Still, it'd be better to just do them up properly, mind...

And a tip for screwing them up in any case is to smear a little grease
onto the bolt threads before you start. This makes it easier to do them
up tight, so they don't shift when twisting your foot, but also makes it
easier to undo them /deliberately/ when it's time to change (or move)
the cleat.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Colin MacDonald]

On 7 May, 08:54, Artemisia > wrote:
> On 6 mai, 19:38, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>
> > Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
> > forward and back at least a little bit.
>
> I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
> caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
> underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
> tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.

As well as the additional holes, you should find that when you loosen
the bolts the whole cleat+plate assembly should be able to move around
(up to a point), though you might have to force it a bit just to free
it up. This gives you finer adjustment back-to-front as well as
allowing you to slightly rotate the cleats and move them side-to-side
a little. It can take quite a while to get them just right so that
they feel natural.

As others have said, though, try loosening the laces a little. The
shoes should be relatively tight, but not uncomfortably so.

Again, as others have said, it could be the shoes are just too small.
If your toes can touch the end of the shoe then it's not a good sign.

Colin

[Roger Zoul]

PoB wrote:
:: "dkahn400" > wrote in message
:: ...
::: On May 7, 6:32 am, "wafflycat" >
::: wrote: The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has
::: mentioned yet may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear
::: by them.
::
:: I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better
:: than my shoes (and being British, when it's chilly, I can wear socks
:: :).
::

Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I have
a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

I think the best approach is to get well-fitting shoes with very stiff
soles. They feet must be kept cool and there should be no long-duration
pressure points.

On, and the notion of fully unloading the sole intermittently while
pedaling, while it sounds good, is not something I have been able to achieve
on long rides.

[Colin[_4_]]

Artemisia wrote:
> On 6 mai, 19:38, (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>
>> Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
>> forward and back at least a little bit.
>
> I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
> caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
> underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
> tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.
>
>
> EFR
> After a wonderful dinner on Isle sur Sorgue

Seen on a recumbent trike mailing list, these
(http://www.tri-zone.com/Details.html?cat=69&item=PYPLT) might be a
useful alternative. Essentially a stiff platform that you bolt your
cleats to and clip to your pedals, and then you can wear any shoe that
is comfortable and fix it in with the straps. The heel cup would appear
to make them suitable for recumbent use.

--
Colin

[Andrew Price]

On Wed, 7 May 2008 09:24:09 +0100, "PoB" > wrote:

>>The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
>>may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.
>
>I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better than my
>shoes

Yes, but which ones? Since Shimano stopped making the old two-strap
SD-60s, I haven't been able to find a comfortable replacement.

[dkahn400]

On May 7, 7:55 pm, "Roger Zoul" > wrote:

> Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
> other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
> fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I have
> a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

Artemisia is complaining of numb toes as well as hot foot so I would
worry about circulation in her case. You are obviously aware how
important this can be. I don't often get hot foot. When it has hit me
it has been on long rides in very hot weather. I can confirm that it
is excruciating but loosening the straps of my shoes does help. People
in sandals then laugh at me so I'm a little surprised you found they
don't help. Possibly not the magic bullet I had thought them to be
though.

--
Dave...

[Tim Hall]

On 07 May 2008 12:03:46 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
> wrote:

>Quoting Artemisia >:
>>Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
>>unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.
>
>IIRC you're on a recumbent trike? Suggest abandoning the clips and tying
>your feet to the pedals to avoid leg suck - obviously if you're just
>strapping them down, you can strap them down in a different position.

Aye. What we did after The Lad fell off the front of the Pino (semi
recumbent tandem) and borked his collar bone was to use short toe
clips and heel loops made from lengths of shock cord.

'course, these days he fits my shoes and is going to have a go with
SPDs soon.

--

Tim

I understand very little of what's being discussed
but for some reason it's fascinating.

(Jon Thompson, urs)

[Roger Zoul]

"dkahn400" > wrote in message
...
> On May 7, 7:55 pm, "Roger Zoul" > wrote:
>
>> Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
>> other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
>> fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I
>> have
>> a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.
>
> Artemisia is complaining of numb toes as well as hot foot so I would
> worry about circulation in her case. You are obviously aware how
> important this can be. I don't often get hot foot. When it has hit me
> it has been on long rides in very hot weather. I can confirm that it
> is excruciating but loosening the straps of my shoes does help. People
> in sandals then laugh at me so I'm a little surprised you found they
> don't help. Possibly not the magic bullet I had thought them to be
> though.

I had a bit of numb toes when I started triking, but that hasn't been
problem for a while now. I too was suprised that the sandals didn't work as
hoped...I was obviouly looking for whatever solution I could find. Now I'm
at the point of considering different pedals. Something that spreads the
load, so to speak. Stiff sole shoes and bigger contact point should help
some.

The pain is unbelievable. For me, it would go away almost immediately after
getting the shoe off my foot...then a massage period was necessary before I
could start riding again...without that, the pain would come back
immediately.

It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
feel badly about that.

[Artemisia[_2_]]

On 7 mai, 23:42, "Roger Zoul" > wrote:

> It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
> feel badly about that.

Why? You had nothing to do with it.

On yesterday's short ride, a little over 20km, the cleats in the lower
position behaved much better. I didn't have any pain at all in the
first half, kept the shoes on for about an hour over lunch, and only
started suffering again as I was returning to the hotel. Today, last
day, another longish ride back to Avignon which I will try to shorten
as I can. In addition to cleat pain there have been other technical
issues, as well as scorchingly hot weather, so actually I'll be quite
happy to get back to my little corner in Isle de France.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post a full trip and trike review
when I get home.

EFR
Isle sur Sorgue

[Roger Zoul]

"Artemisia" > wrote in

> On 7 mai, 23:42, "Roger Zoul" > wrote:
>
>> It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
>> feel badly about that.
>
> Why? You had nothing to do with it.

Because your 1st trike tour should be great! Mine was. I did one in March
where I did 7 different bikes trails, one each day, over a week. It was
great. However, the temps were higher and later in the day the hot foot
problems showed up. Fortunately, I was able to get out there early to avoid
the heat most of the days.

>
> On yesterday's short ride, a little over 20km, the cleats in the lower
> position behaved much better. I didn't have any pain at all in the
> first half, kept the shoes on for about an hour over lunch, and only
> started suffering again as I was returning to the hotel.

Some time with the shoes off during lunch would have been wise...at least
while you were sitting.

Today, last
> day, another longish ride back to Avignon which I will try to shorten
> as I can. In addition to cleat pain there have been other technical
> issues, as well as scorchingly hot weather, so actually I'll be quite
> happy to get back to my little corner in Isle de France.
>
> Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post a full trip and trike review
> when I get home.
>
> EFR
> Isle sur Sorgue

[Arellcat]

Mr Larrington wrote:

> Also, Spesh's so-called "Body Geometry" stuffs are modelled on a body
> almost, but not quite, entirely unlike mine. I had a pair of such shoes
> once and suffered similar agonies until I bit the bullet, swallowed the
> expense and bought a pair of Carnacs.

I too have found Body Geometry to be a wee bit questionable in its perfect
alignment ergonomickery. In my Specialized Comp Roads and Sport MTBs (and
my worn out pair of Comp Roads and worn out Sonomas), I've found it
necessary to throw away every pair of BG insoles and replace them with
ordinary (if moderately thick) Nike running shoe insoles. Before that, I'd
never had so many cases of 'hot foot' - pain all around the outside of my
feet and towards the centres. My Cannondale shoes on the other hand fitted
well without any mucking about at all.

Just to add my bit on cleat positions and lacing...on my recumbents I've
found my feet prefer to have the SPDs slightly further back on the soles
than I might use on the DF. Maybe two or three millimeters further back, it
doesn't sound much but it makes all the difference in ease of spinning and
calf muscle comfort. And for lacing/velcro straps, keeping them a bit loose
seems good for my circulation too.

Becky

[Weatherlawyer]

On May 7, 6:30 am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Mark T wrote:
> >> Artemisia writtificated
>
> >>> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?
>
> >> Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
> >> shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.
>
> >> Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
> >> essential you try them on before buying.
>
> >> When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
> >> touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
> >> toes a little.[...]
>
> > Too tight shoes are even more of a problem on a recumbent with the bottom
> > bracket at or above seat level. I have a pair of Shimano ATB shoes which
> > are a little narrow. These shoes are fine on the ATB and the low bottom
> > bracket recumbent, but cause pain and a burning feeling when used on a
> > higher bottom bracket recumbent.
>
> What a laugh the above statement is.

What an outright pillock.

Do you sleep standing up?

[Weatherlawyer]

On May 6, 6:05 pm, Artemisia > wrote:
> On 6 mai, 18:50, "Jim" > wrote:
>
> > "Artemisia" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
> > > unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
> > > Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.
>
> > Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
> > I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
> > they're under my arches.
>
> > Jim J
>
> They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
> pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
> farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
> and the holes are only in one place.
>
> I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
> has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it
> when it starts hurting.
>
> Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
> comfortable they are!

Therefore it has to be the shoes.

I wear wide fitting work shoes and there is only one make I know of.
Imagine the pain I had to go through once they passed laws on health
and safety demanding steel toe-capped boots or shoes.

It took years of expensive trial and error to find them.
They are Tuskers by the way.

I don't know anything about recumbents or cycling shoes.

[Edward Dolan]

"Weatherlawyer" > wrote in message
...
> On May 7, 6:30 am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Mark T wrote:
>> >> Artemisia writtificated
>>
>> >>> Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?
>>
>> >> Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest
>> >> bike
>> >> shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.
>>
>> >> Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
>> >> essential you try them on before buying.
>>
>> >> When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should
>> >> not
>> >> touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
>> >> toes a little.[...]
>>
>> > Too tight shoes are even more of a problem on a recumbent with the
>> > bottom
>> > bracket at or above seat level. I have a pair of Shimano ATB shoes
>> > which
>> > are a little narrow. These shoes are fine on the ATB and the low bottom
>> > bracket recumbent, but cause pain and a burning feeling when used on a
>> > higher bottom bracket recumbent.
>>
>> What a laugh the above statement is.
>
> What an outright pillock.
>
> Do you sleep standing up?

Tom Sherman is a well regarded idiot on this newsgroup (ARBR). You have
quite a ways to go before you can join him, but keep trying. Who knows, you
might get lucky!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota