Compensation options?

[[email protected]]

I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. But
I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
to give it a go. Please, let's not turn this into yet another
pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.

At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
work. As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. It's a ride I've made
literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
without a significant mishap. Weather was good, traffic light to
nonexistent. I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
being red. I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. Next thing I remember
I was being loaded into an ambulance.
My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike
and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. The man
told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
business, and it ran into the street in front of me. That's all I know
about what happened to me. I have no personal memory at all of the
crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. This
plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. I'm
probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. I
am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. All I got above
the neck was a minor concussion. (A single drop of subdural bleeding,
they tell me.) My glasses didn't break or even come off. I still have
some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
pass with time.
My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. I probably won't
ride a bike again until winter is over, though. For the time being, my
two-wheeler is a walker.
I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. I have enough sick pay to
cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
this, I could have collected it when I retire. I have reasonably good
medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
of what the insurance doesn't cover. But it's still money I earned that
I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. And not
surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
total loss.
So here's my question: it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
for what happened. There is a leash law. OTOH, I am loath to sue.
Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
80% doesn't strike me as justice. But I'm wondering if I might be able
to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?


Thanks,
Bill

__o | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | -- Mark Twain

[PatTX]

Bill, suing for what you are owed does not make you a bad person. I think
that is what is at the root of your hesitation. We have more or less been
conditioned to think that a good person never sues someone. You have been
injured and insurance is there to "make you whole" so to speak. Use it for
its intended purpose. Otherwise, only the insurance companies profit. And
where did you get the idea that the lawyer would get 80% anyway? I repeat:
recovering your losses through a lawsuit or insurance claim does not make
you a bad person!

You are, after all, the injured party!

I hope you get well rapidly. No one deserves to get injured by a stupid dog
when the owner is behaving like an idiot. Take care of yourself both
physically and financially.

Pat in TX

[Leo Lichtman]

"PatTX" > wrote: Bill, suing for what you are owed does
not make you a bad person. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You may not have to sue. This looks like an open-and-shut case to me. If
you file a claim with the dog owner's insurance, they will probable offer
you a settlement. If you think it's not enough, then consult an attorney
about suing. Be aware that, if you get a settlement, whether by agreeing or
suing, your health insurance provider may very well expect to be repaid for
their expenses. Any amount you get for pain and suffering is yours, but
your medical expenses would likely go to them, since the owner actually
caused them to have a loss. Weeks in the hospital is not a trivial cost.

It seems logical to me that your employer could also have an action against
him for your lost time, if he wants to pursue it.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
"PatTX" > wrote:

> Bill, suing for what you are owed does not make you a bad person. I think
> that is what is at the root of your hesitation. We have more or less been
> conditioned to think that a good person never sues someone. You have been
> injured and insurance is there to "make you whole" so to speak. Use it for
> its intended purpose. Otherwise, only the insurance companies profit. And
> where did you get the idea that the lawyer would get 80% anyway? I repeat:
> recovering your losses through a lawsuit or insurance claim does not make
> you a bad person!
>
> You are, after all, the injured party!
>
> I hope you get well rapidly. No one deserves to get injured by a stupid dog
> when the owner is behaving like an idiot. Take care of yourself both
> physically and financially.
>
> Pat in TX

What Pat said.

If it makes you feel any better, yes, this gent's homeowner's insurance
is very likely to cover him for injuries such as you suffered at his
hands (or in this case, at the hands of his negligently controlled
chattel*).

Also, the lawyer will probably only take 20% for the process of sending
a demand letter to the dog owner.

The real injustice is that the dog will likely not have to pay a penny!

*I'm not a lawyer, just a guy with an English degree. There are so few
good opportunities to use "chattel" in a sentence.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[bluezfolk]

On Oct 7, 3:37*pm, wrote:
> * *I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
> unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. *But
> I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
> to give it a go. *Please, let's not turn this into yet another
> pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.
>
> * *At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
> work. *As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
> was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. *It's a ride I've made
> literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
> without a significant mishap. *Weather was good, traffic light to
> nonexistent. *I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
> being red. *I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
> * *And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
> dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. *Next thing I remember
> I was being loaded into an ambulance.
> * *My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike
> and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. *The man
> told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
> business, and it ran into the street in front of me. *That's all I know
> about what happened to me. *I have no personal memory at all of the
> crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
> * *After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
> with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
> femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. *This
> plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. *I'm
> probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. *I
> am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. *All I got above
> the neck was a minor concussion. *(A single drop of subdural bleeding,
> they tell me.) *My glasses didn't break or even come off. *I still have
> some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
> pass with time.
> * *My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. *I probably won't
> ride a bike again until winter is over, though. *For the time being, my
> two-wheeler is a walker.
> * *I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. *I have enough sick pay to
> cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
> this, I could have collected it when I retire. *I have reasonably good
> medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
> of what the insurance doesn't cover. *But it's still money I earned that
> I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. *And not
> surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
> total loss.
> * *So here's my question: *it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> for what happened. *There is a leash law. *OTOH, I am loath to sue. *
> Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> 80% doesn't strike me as justice. *But I'm wondering if I might be able
> to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
> * *Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> * *__o * | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
> *_`\(,_ *|
> (_)/ (_) | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Mark Twain


Obviously since you are not at fault you should not have to pay for
medical care out of your savings. I don't know if you can make a
claim to the dog owners insurance company, but the dog owner certainly
can (if he has insurance). Have you spoken to him? It may be
handled without the services of an attorney.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

wrote:
> I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
> unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. But
> I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
> to give it a go. Please, let's not turn this into yet another
> pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.
>
> At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
> work. As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
> was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. It's a ride I've made
> literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
> without a significant mishap. Weather was good, traffic light to
> nonexistent. I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
> being red. I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
> And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
> dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. Next thing I remember
> I was being loaded into an ambulance.
> My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike

Yay! No damage to the bicycle!

> and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. The man
> told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
> business, and it ran into the street in front of me.

**** happens. (Sorry, but I can not resist a pun.)

> That's all I know
> about what happened to me. I have no personal memory at all of the
> crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
> After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
> with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
> femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. This
> plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. I'm
> probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. I
> am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. All I got above
> the neck was a minor concussion. (A single drop of subdural bleeding,
> they tell me.) My glasses didn't break or even come off. I still have
> some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
> pass with time.
> My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. I probably won't
> ride a bike again until winter is over, though. For the time being, my
> two-wheeler is a walker.
> I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. I have enough sick pay to
> cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
> this, I could have collected it when I retire. I have reasonably good
> medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
> of what the insurance doesn't cover. But it's still money I earned that
> I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. And not
> surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
> total loss.
> So here's my question: it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> for what happened. There is a leash law. OTOH, I am loath to sue.
> Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> 80% doesn't strike me as justice. But I'm wondering if I might be able
> to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.

The dog owner is morally responsible for compensation. As for legal
options, many attorneys offer a free initial compensation. I suggest
taking advantage of that.

> Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
Recumbent trike with suspension, so you can ride without putting
sustained loads on your injured parts. Also makes a much better dog ram.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If my posts in general annoy or offend, please kill-file.

[Leo Lichtman]

"Tom Sherman" wrote: (clip) The dog owner is morally responsible for
compensation. As for legal
> options, many attorneys offer a free initial compensation. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tom, your needle must be stuck. (Now there's an expression rooted in the
past.) The second occurrence of "compensation" should read "consultation."

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Leo Lichtman wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" wrote: (clip) The dog owner is morally responsible for
> compensation. As for legal
>> options, many attorneys offer a free initial compensation. (clip)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Tom, your needle must be stuck. (Now there's an expression rooted in the
> past.) The second occurrence of "compensation" should read "consultation."
>
>
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Discussing the sonic quality of vinyl records versus more recently
developed recording and playback mediums is worse than any h*lm*t
discussion.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If my posts in general annoy or offend, please kill-file.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > writes:
> Leo Lichtman wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" wrote: (clip) The dog owner is morally responsible for
>> compensation. As for legal
>>> options, many attorneys offer a free initial compensation. (clip)
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Tom, your needle must be stuck. (Now there's an expression rooted in the
>> past.) The second occurrence of "compensation" should read "consultation."
>>
>>
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
>
> Discussing the sonic quality of vinyl records versus more recently
> developed recording and playback mediums is worse than any h*lm*t
> discussion.

Vacuum tube amplifiers sound better too.

And properly built infinite-baffle speaks can blow yer roof off.

Anyways, there's all this dollar store Halloween junk that's
currently being purveyed. Some of it involves skulls etc that
light up.I just might stick some of it on my bike for
illumination purposes at night. Permanently.


cheers, & parametric equalizer,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[[email protected]]

On Oct 7, 4:30*pm, "Leo Lichtman" > wrote:
> "PatTX" > wrote: *Bill, suing for what you are owed does
>
> not make you a bad person. (clip)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> You may not have to sue. *This looks like an open-and-shut case to me. *If
> you file a claim with the dog owner's insurance, they will probable offer
> you a settlement. *If you think it's not enough, then consult an attorney
> about suing.

Perhaps I'm paranoid, but before I signed a legal document with an
insurance
company, I'd make damn sure I understood what I was signing.

That would probably require a lawyer.

[Jym Dyer]

> Anyways, there's all this dollar store Halloween junk that's
> currently being purveyed. Some of it involves skulls etc
> that light up. I just might stick some of it on my bike for
> illumination purposes at night. Permanently.

=v= It's good that they make stuff that lights up so that
dim-bulb motorists can actually see kids walking around at
night, but most of it's not built to last.
<_Jym_>

[landotter]

On Oct 7, 3:37*pm, wrote:

> * *Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>

Don't they gots heavies in your neighborhood dat youse can hire for
like fifty or a hunred bux to shake the monies outta the azzhole? He
needs a "visit" from two guys with nicknames like "Fingers" and
"Stumpy". Support local business!

[bookieb]

On Oct 7, 9:37 pm, wrote:
<snip>
> So here's my question: it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> for what happened. There is a leash law. OTOH, I am loath to sue.
> Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> 80% doesn't strike me as justice. But I'm wondering if I might be able
> to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
> Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill

Hi Bill,

sorry to hear about your accident - here's hoping for a full recovery.
IANAL, so this is *uninformed* opinion.

This shouldn't cost you anything.

You have damaged kit (clothing etc.) - inventory, get quotes for
replacement items of similar quality.
You say the bike is OK - I'd have it checked carefully by a competent
bike shop, and if any work or parts are required, get them to
inventory and quote for same.

You have out-of-pocket medical expenses that aren't covered by your
medical insurance - inventory, together with receipts for same.

Did you lose out any money in a difference between sick pay and
regular pay? In any case, make sure that you have certificates
stating "unfit for work" from your doctor for the period in question,
and figure out the loss, if any.

Do you have any additional expenses relating to travel while you are
incapactiated? Inventory, recepits etc.

Add up all of the above.

IMO - don't go nuts - the objective is not to screw anyone for the
last few cents, this is not a money-making operation, but again this
incident shouldn't cost you anything.

Document everything you can remember - times, dates, names of law
officers, medical attendents etc. Nothing fancy, just note it down.

Keep a diary of how you feel, day to day, pains, restrictions on your
activities etc. - don't lie or exagerate, just note it down. When you
feel better, write that down too.

You should do the above regardless of any decision you make about
looking for compensation, approaching a lawyer or sueing. Your memory
of details of the event will fade quickly if not noted down soon.

It's probably up to your medical insurer if they are going to try and
recover their costs from the dog owner.
It may be worth considering talking to them to see if you can add you
own expenses into a joint recovery attempt.

At a minimum, you have the right to be put back in the same financial
situation as you were before the crash - that's fair and right.

Beyond that, payment for pain and suffering (past and future)? That's
a trickier question.

Again IANAL, and this advice is exactly 3.73 times what you paid for
it.

hth,

bookieb.

[peter]

On Oct 7, 2:30 pm, "Leo Lichtman" > wrote:
> "PatTX" > wrote: Bill, suing for what you are owed does
>
> not make you a bad person. (clip)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> You may not have to sue. This looks like an open-and-shut case to me. If
> you file a claim with the dog owner's insurance, they will probable offer
> you a settlement. If you think it's not enough, then consult an attorney
> about suing. Be aware that, if you get a settlement, whether by agreeing or
> suing, your health insurance provider may very well expect to be repaid for
> their expenses. Any amount you get for pain and suffering is yours, but
> your medical expenses would likely go to them, since the owner actually
> caused them to have a loss. Weeks in the hospital is not a trivial cost.
>
> It seems logical to me that your employer could also have an action against
> him for your lost time, if he wants to pursue it.

I agree. First contact the dog owner's insurance company and see what
they offer. You may want to consult with an attorney to go over
exactly what the terms of their offer mean and how much you'll end up
collecting vs. your health insurance and any other parties. Only if
the settlement is insufficient would there be any need to escalate
things to a lawsuit.

FWIW, I had something somewhat similar with a dog but fortunately only
minor injuries and the only real damage was to my bike frame. I got
the insurance information from the dog's owner; presented them with a
bike shop estimate for a similar bike (my model was no longer
available); and got a check immediately in exchange for the wrecked
bike.

Naturally your case will involve much larger amounts and probably some
negotiation with the insurance company, but I wouldn't assume from the
outset that a lawsuit would be needed.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Tom Keats wrote:
> [...]
> Anyways, there's all this dollar store Halloween junk that's
> currently being purveyed. Some of it involves skulls etc that
> light up.I just might stick some of it on my bike for
> illumination purposes at night. Permanently.

They should make a bike h*lm*t shaped like a skull that glows in the dark.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Ron Wallenfang]

On Oct 7, 3:37*pm, wrote:
> * *I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
> unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. *But
> I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
> to give it a go. *Please, let's not turn this into yet another
> pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.
>
> * *At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
> work. *As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
> was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. *It's a ride I've made
> literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
> without a significant mishap. *Weather was good, traffic light to
> nonexistent. *I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
> being red. *I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
> * *And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
> dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. *Next thing I remember
> I was being loaded into an ambulance.
> * *My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike
> and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. *The man
> told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
> business, and it ran into the street in front of me. *That's all I know
> about what happened to me. *I have no personal memory at all of the
> crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
> * *After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
> with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
> femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. *This
> plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. *I'm
> probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. *I
> am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. *All I got above
> the neck was a minor concussion. *(A single drop of subdural bleeding,
> they tell me.) *My glasses didn't break or even come off. *I still have
> some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
> pass with time.
> * *My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. *I probably won't
> ride a bike again until winter is over, though. *For the time being, my
> two-wheeler is a walker.
> * *I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. *I have enough sick pay to
> cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
> this, I could have collected it when I retire. *I have reasonably good
> medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
> of what the insurance doesn't cover. *But it's still money I earned that
> I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. *And not
> surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
> total loss.
> * *So here's my question: *it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> for what happened. *There is a leash law. *OTOH, I am loath to sue. *
> Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> 80% doesn't strike me as justice. *But I'm wondering if I might be able
> to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
> * *Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> * *__o * | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
> *_`\(,_ *|
> (_)/ (_) | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Mark Twain

A no-brainer. Get a lawyer, says me, a lawyer. If you have one for
other purposes, get his recommendation for a good local PI attorney.
If not, ask around. Don't rely on advertising.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> [...]
>> Anyways, there's all this dollar store Halloween junk that's
>> currently being purveyed. Some of it involves skulls etc that
>> light up.I just might stick some of it on my bike for
>> illumination purposes at night. Permanently.
>
> They should make a bike h*lm*t shaped like a skull that glows in the dark.

Good idea!

I like it!

Especially if it has a bobble-head motion, and a glowing
green snake constantly slithering in-&-out of the eye,
nose and mouth orifices. Illumination enhanced with motion
is so much more visible than static illumination in the dark.
That's why I think pedal reflectors are such a useful adjunct
to one's nighttime illumination strategy.

Alas, the closest thing I've seen is a tabletop centrepiece
skull that fountains fake blood. I received (and subesquently
shipped) a bunch o' them at work.

On the last bus ride leg of my early morning 1 hr commute to
work (it's still dark then,) I frequently see a recumbent
rider wearing a hi-viz vest that has integral LEDs in it,
built into the reflective 'X' on the back, as well as
blinkies attached to his bike. It works pretty good for
seeing him from behind. The lights clearly indicate his
width as a vehicle in an adjoining left turn lane.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[PatTX]

:
: A no-brainer. Get a lawyer, says me, a lawyer. If you have one for
: other purposes, get his recommendation for a good local PI attorney.
: If not, ask around. Don't rely on advertising.

You mean he shouldn't "call the Hammer!" or "I'm the tough, smart lawyer!"
or even "the Strong Arm! will see that you get what you deserve!" and tell
him your "real true story!" We have all of these men right in Dallas!

Pat

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:37:16 +0000, D_Frumious_B wrote:

> So here's my question: it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> for what happened. There is a leash law. OTOH, I am loath to sue.
> Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> 80% doesn't strike me as justice.


It is if you are awarded enough to cover both your damages and the costs
involved in pursuing your claim.

A couple of things:

1) Seeking legal advice and possibly filing a lawsuit does *not* make you
a bad person. The law exists to protect your rights and interests. It's
in your own best interest to get good advice.

2) Having a lawyer doesn't necessarily mean you will have to litigate.
You can still come to a negotiated settlement with the other side; or
you could find any number of ways to settle your claim without
necessarily going to court (which can be expensive).

One other thing, about lawyers in general. If a lawyer takes a slice of
the final award in the end, it's very likely because he has been working
FOR FREE UNTIL THAT POINT. This has the useful side benefit that it
creates a powerful identity of interests between the lawyer and his
client. A lawyer working on contingency can't afford NOT to care about
your claim.

Of course, you could refuse a contingent-fee arrangement--but you'd be
paying his hourly fees, plus the other costs of bringing the action.


You wouldn't be wrong to talk to a lawyer. You will almost certainly get
better--and confidential-- advice regarding your claim from a real lawyer
than you would by asking on USENET.

Whatever you do, you should do it reasonably soon. The passage of time
may bar your claim completely. As a practical matter, it will make
gathering the necessary facts more difficult.

Full disclosure: I'm a second-year law student. None of the foregoing
should be taken as legal advice or as soliciting or creating an attorney-
client relationship. If you wish to seek legal advice, you should seek
the advice of a licensed attorney.

--Luigi de Guzman

--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:14:57 +0000, Ryan Cousineau wrote:


> *I'm not a lawyer, just a guy with an English degree. There are so few
> good opportunities to use "chattel" in a sentence.

Yeah, just wait till we start speaking Latin!

--Luigi
who maintains legal Latin is nicer that Law French.



--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[[email protected]]

On Oct 8, 9:54*pm, Ron Wallenfang > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 3:37*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > * *I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
> > unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. *But
> > I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
> > to give it a go. *Please, let's not turn this into yet another
> > pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.
>
> > * *At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
> > work. *As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
> > was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. *It's a ride I've made
> > literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
> > without a significant mishap. *Weather was good, traffic light to
> > nonexistent. *I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
> > being red. *I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
> > * *And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
> > dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. *Next thing I remember
> > I was being loaded into an ambulance.
> > * *My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike
> > and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. *The man
> > told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
> > business, and it ran into the street in front of me. *That's all I know
> > about what happened to me. *I have no personal memory at all of the
> > crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
> > * *After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
> > with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
> > femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. *This
> > plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. *I'm
> > probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. *I
> > am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. *All I got above
> > the neck was a minor concussion. *(A single drop of subdural bleeding,
> > they tell me.) *My glasses didn't break or even come off. *I still have
> > some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
> > pass with time.
> > * *My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. *I probably won't
> > ride a bike again until winter is over, though. *For the time being, my
> > two-wheeler is a walker.
> > * *I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. *I have enough sick pay to
> > cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
> > this, I could have collected it when I retire. *I have reasonably good
> > medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
> > of what the insurance doesn't cover. *But it's still money I earned that
> > I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. *And not
> > surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
> > total loss.
> > * *So here's my question: *it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> > for what happened. *There is a leash law. *OTOH, I am loath to sue. *
> > Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> > 80% doesn't strike me as justice. *But I'm wondering if I might be able
> > to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
> > * *Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
>
> > * *__o * | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
> > *_`\(,_ *|
> > (_)/ (_) | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Mark Twain
>
> A no-brainer. *Get a lawyer, says me, a lawyer. *If you have one for
> other purposes, get his recommendation for a good local PI attorney.
> If not, ask around. *Don't rely on advertising.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Definately, definately ask around. This is HUGE. A few years back I
was stopped at a cross walk on my motorcycle when I was rear-ended by
a kid picking zits in his rearview while driving. I missed a bunch of
work, couldn't ride the motorcycle or the pedal bikes for many, many
months and racked up quite a bit in medical bills. The medical bills
got paid (many of which were to specialists he insisted I use
specifically and by name, probably friends of his from whom he got a
cut), my bike got repaired, but I got a tiny amount for my time out of
work and incapacitated. Significantly less than my lawyer got, in
fact, since his cut came "off the top", so he got a percentage of the
medical and motorcycle repair bills as well. It was, to say the
least, a very frustrating experience.

[Barry Harmon]

I don't know where you live, but here's how it works in New Jersey. Maybe
there is something similar in your state or province.

Since this is a vehicular accident, your or the other person's auto
insurance may come into play.

Since NJ is a no-fault state, each person's insurance pays his medical
bills acording to the contract.

The person at fault is liable for damages. Your bike, helmet, clothing,
etc.

You are allowed a claim for pain and suffering.

You are allowed a claim for lost wages.

Any other law claims are outside the jurisdiction of the insurance process.

I'd be surprised if there weren't a legitimate claim for both pain and
suffering and lost wages. Since these provisions are built into many state
regulations you should avail yourself of them. In NJ there is a 2 year
statute of limitations on the claim, which gives a person ample time for
things to settle down and normalize.

If you can make it fit, I think you might be better off claiming under an
auto policy rather than a homeowners policy, but you should check that out.

I hope you recover completely and get back to where you were before the
accident.

Barry Harmon

[Barry Harmon]

Phil W Lee <phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk> wrote in
:

> Barry Harmon > considered 09 Oct 2008 15:43:46
> GMT the perfect time to write:
>
>>I don't know where you live, but here's how it works in New Jersey.
>>Maybe there is something similar in your state or province.
>>
>>Since this is a vehicular accident, your or the other person's auto
>>insurance may come into play.
>
> Unless there is a requirement for loose dogs to be covered by auto
> insurance this is irrelevant.
>>
>>Since NJ is a no-fault state, each person's insurance pays his medical
>>bills acording to the contract.
>>
>>The person at fault is liable for damages. Your bike, helmet,
>>clothing, etc.
>>
>>You are allowed a claim for pain and suffering.
>>
>>You are allowed a claim for lost wages.
>>
>>Any other law claims are outside the jurisdiction of the insurance
>>process.
>>
>>I'd be surprised if there weren't a legitimate claim for both pain and
>>suffering and lost wages. Since these provisions are built into many
>>state regulations you should avail yourself of them. In NJ there is a
>>2 year statute of limitations on the claim, which gives a person ample
>>time for things to settle down and normalize.
>>
>>If you can make it fit, I think you might be better off claiming under
>>an auto policy rather than a homeowners policy, but you should check
>>that out.
>
> Kind of hard to see how any auto insurance would cover a pedestrian
> dog owner allowing it off the leash on a road.
>>
>>I hope you recover completely and get back to where you were before
>>the accident.
>>
> Well, at least that part I can agree with.
>

You were, in effect, a vehicle. You should check with your insurance
carrier, just to make sure. Your insurance auto carrier may be on the
hook. When I had my most recent accident, my carrier covered my
medical. NJ is a no-fault state, so it may not be the same where you
are, but it's worth asking the question.

In the final analysis, it doesn't matter if you agree or not. If the
conditions and facts of the case fit with insurance, it's covered.

I didn't say it was or wasn't relevant. I just said you should check it
out.

Barry Harmon

[Ron Wallenfang]

On Oct 8, 8:54*pm, Ron Wallenfang > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 3:37*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > * *I've been mulling over whether to write this post, given the
> > unfortunate tendency of threads to veer off course here of late. *But
> > I'm in a position where I really need intelligent advice, so I'm going
> > to give it a go. *Please, let's not turn this into yet another
> > pointless, endless h*lm*t thread.
>
> > * *At 4:30 a.m. on a morning about a month ago I left home to ride to
> > work. *As always I had my blinkies and my headlight on, and as always I
> > was wearing a helmet and a reflective vest. *It's a ride I've made
> > literally thousands of times in this area at the same time of day
> > without a significant mishap. *Weather was good, traffic light to
> > nonexistent. *I remember one traffic light that I usually hit green
> > being red. *I waited it out and continued on my usual route.
> > * *And then I was waking up in the dark, in great pain, with half a
> > dozen firefighters and paramedics working on me. *Next thing I remember
> > I was being loaded into an ambulance.
> > * *My son later returned to the scene and recovered my (undamaged) bike
> > and trailer from the man whose dog apparently caused the crash. *The man
> > told my son that he took the pooch, unleashed, out to do its morning
> > business, and it ran into the street in front of me. *That's all I know
> > about what happened to me. *I have no personal memory at all of the
> > crash or anything in the mile of riding before it.
> > * *After three weeks in hospital and rehab, I am currently homebound
> > with multiple broken bones, including a finger, an arm, some ribs, and a
> > femoral neck, which now has three #8 stainless steel screws in it. *This
> > plus a badly bruised shoulder and the inevitable road rash. *I'm
> > probably not going to be able to get back to work for another month. *I
> > am fortunate that my h*lm*t minimized my head injuries. *All I got above
> > the neck was a minor concussion. *(A single drop of subdural bleeding,
> > they tell me.) *My glasses didn't break or even come off. *I still have
> > some minor dizziness if I make an extreme head movement, but that should
> > pass with time.
> > * *My prognosis is for a full, but slow, recovery. *I probably won't
> > ride a bike again until winter is over, though. *For the time being, my
> > two-wheeler is a walker.
> > * *I'm going to be okay financially, sort of. *I have enough sick pay to
> > cover all of the time I'm missing, although if I hadn't used it for
> > this, I could have collected it when I retire. *I have reasonably good
> > medical, and a "flexible spending" account with enough in it to pay most
> > of what the insurance doesn't cover. *But it's still money I earned that
> > I could have spent on other things if this hadn't arisen. *And not
> > surprisingly, my h*lm*t, gloves, and the clothes I was wearing are a
> > total loss.
> > * *So here's my question: *it seems to me that the dog owner is liable
> > for what happened. *There is a leash law. *OTOH, I am loath to sue. *
> > Years of delays and postponements just to see some lawyer end up with
> > 80% doesn't strike me as justice. *But I'm wondering if I might be able
> > to file some kind of claim with the guy's homeowner's insurance.
> > * *Anybody got an informed opinion on my options?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
>
> > * *__o * | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
> > *_`\(,_ *|
> > (_)/ (_) | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Mark Twain
>
> A no-brainer. *Get a lawyer, says me, a lawyer. *If you have one for
> other purposes, get his recommendation for a good local PI attorney.
> If not, ask around. *Don't rely on advertising.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

By the way, I'm feeling a bit sheepish for not leading off with an
expression of sympathy that you had the accident and hope that your
recovery will be complete, and as quick as possible. I recall the
exchanges we had before my 2007 trip and the route advice you provided
and appreciate that. Best wishes.

Ron

[[email protected]]

Many thanks to all for your thoughtful, insightful replies to my OP.

It looks like the decision re legal action may have been taken out of
my hands. I just got a letter from my medical insurance company asking
for info so that they can subrogate damages. (I had to look it up too.)
A phone call confirms my suspicion that the Sheriff was not called
and so has no report of my accident. (A vehicular accident--no matter
what every non-cyclist thinks, bikes are legally classified as
vehicles--on a county road, involving injury?--why the heck no report?)
I called the Fire Authority, and they told me I can have a report of
their call to the accident for $18 (!), and I have to pick it up in
person.
I'm thinking it's time to at least consult with my attorney. Maybe I
can piggyback a claim on the one the insurance company files.


Bill

--------------------------------------------------
| You can fool some of the people all of the time, |
| and those are the ones you have to focus on. |
| -- George W. Bush |
--------------------------------------------------

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:32:59 +0000, D_Frumious_B wrote:

> Many thanks to all for your thoughtful, insightful replies to my OP.
>
> It looks like the decision re legal action may have been taken out of
> my hands. I just got a letter from my medical insurance company asking
> for info so that they can subrogate damages. (I had to look it up too.)

Subrogation is written into the policy. I'd read your policy carefully
if I were you to see whether it covers everything.

> A phone call confirms my suspicion that the Sheriff was not called
> and so has no report of my accident. (A vehicular accident--no matter
> what every non-cyclist thinks, bikes are legally classified as
> vehicles--on a county road, involving injury?--why the heck no report?)
> I called the Fire Authority, and they told me I can have a report of
> their call to the accident for $18 (!), and I have to pick it up in
> person.
> I'm thinking it's time to at least consult with my attorney. Maybe I
> can piggyback a claim on the one the insurance company files.

Yup, a quick consultation will do you good.



>
>
> Bill
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> | You can fool some of the people all of the time, | | and those are
> the ones you have to focus on. | | -- George W.
> Bush |
> --------------------------------------------------





--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com