United charging $350 r/t for bicycles

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???

United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
especially considering that Southwest charges
nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle. Other
airlines are somewhere in-between.
If this is an issue that could affect you (and it likely is!), please
consider letting United Airlines know how you feel about it. It's not an
easy process; you have to navigate through a lot of garbage on their
website, but you start here.

Below is the email I sent. I'll let people know if/when I get a reply.
The more people who let United know about their displeasure on this
matter, the more likely it is we might see the price increases rolled
back. Thanks- --Mike--

==============================
Regarding: New fees for bicycles

Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350 round
trip). Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is under the 50
pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for golf, archery or
bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge to deal with.

I have been 2P/Premier for the past several years, and had intended to
remain so for some time to come. But there are alternative carriers not
charging such high fees for cyclists, some charging nothing extra
whatsoever, others in the $50 range.

My customers (I own a large retail bicycle shop) are talking about
United's new bicycle charges frequently, and many have spoken of looking
at alternatives.

Why does United want to drive us away? Those flying with bikes are
typically your better customers in the upper elite ranks. They represent
a lot of $$$. It seems that United might want to go to some trouble
attracting, rather than annoying, such customers.

We're not asking for you to carry bikes for free, but rather a
reasonable charge, and parity with what other non-standard baggage (such
as the previously-mentioned golf, archery & bowling)is charged.

Thanks for your consideration of this important issue-

Mike Jacoubowsky
Partner
Chain Reaction Bicycles

============================

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Dennis Ferguson]

On 2008-10-16, Mike Jacoubowsky > wrote:
> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,

For what it is worth what they seem to be charging for is the
oversized baggage, not just because it is a bicycle. $175 is
the new fee for luggage which is more than 62 linear inches.
They have still been taking my S&S-coupled bicycle at no charge,
though, even when I've told them it is a bicycle.

> Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350 round
> trip). Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is under the 50
> pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for golf, archery or
> bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge to deal with.

Note that archery and bowling equipment is only uncharged if it is
under the 62 inch size limit. I don't quite understand why golf
bags are exempt, however, since the golf travel cases are always
oversized.

Dennis Ferguson

[peter]

On Oct 15, 11:00*pm, Dennis Ferguson > wrote:
> On 2008-10-16, Mike Jacoubowsky > wrote:
>
> > HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> > United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> > raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> > trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> > travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
>
> For what it is worth what they seem to be charging for is the
> oversized baggage, not just because it is a bicycle. *$175 is
> the new fee for luggage which is more than 62 linear inches.
> They have still been taking my S&S-coupled bicycle at no charge,
> though, even when I've told them it is a bicycle.
>
> > Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350 round
> > trip). Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is under the 50
> > pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for golf, archery or
> > bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge to deal with.
>
> Note that archery and bowling equipment is only uncharged if it is
> under the 62 inch size limit. *I don't quite understand why golf
> bags are exempt, however, since the golf travel cases are always
> oversized.

In addition to golf bags, water and snow skis, and snowboards also
appear to be exempt from the 62 linear inch (L + W + H) limit without
an extra charge (the 50 lb. limit does still apply). However, scuba
divers, lugers, surfers, and pole vaulters are in the same situation
as cyclists.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:

> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> trip. For US travel.

For that price, on many routes, it could be cheaper to buy a seat for
your bicycle and put it in the cabin.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Leo Lichtman]

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote: For that price, on many routes, it could be
cheaper to buy a seat for
> your bicycle and put it in the cabin.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Especially since the bicycle, ticketed as a passenger, is allowed to have
some luggage at no extra charge. If the bicycle is in a wheelchair, isn't
it allowed to board first, along with the caregiver?

[Brian Huntley]

On Oct 16, 3:43*pm, "Leo Lichtman" >
wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" wrote: * For that price, on many routes, it could be
>
> cheaper to buy a seat for> your bicycle and put it in the cabin.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Especially since the bicycle, ticketed as a passenger, is allowed to have
> some luggage at no extra charge. *If the bicycle is in a wheelchair, isn't
> it allowed to board first, along with the caregiver?

So, we need bikes that convert into wheelchairs.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article
>,
Brian Huntley > wrote:

> On Oct 16, 3:43*pm, "Leo Lichtman" >
> wrote:
> > "Ryan Cousineau" wrote: * For that price, on many routes, it could be
> >
> > cheaper to buy a seat for> your bicycle and put it in the cabin.
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Especially since the bicycle, ticketed as a passenger, is allowed to have
> > some luggage at no extra charge. *If the bicycle is in a wheelchair, isn't
> > it allowed to board first, along with the caregiver?
>
> So, we need bikes that convert into wheelchairs.

http://www.frankmobility.com/duetfeat.php

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[peter]

On Oct 16, 2:13*pm, Phil W Lee <phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk>
wrote:
> "Leo Lichtman" > considered Thu, 16 Oct
> 2008 19:43:27 GMT the perfect time to write:
>
>
>
> >"Ryan Cousineau" wrote: * For that price, on many routes, it could be
> >cheaper to buy a seat for
> >> your bicycle and put it in the cabin.
> >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >Especially since the bicycle, ticketed as a passenger, is allowed to have
> >some luggage at no extra charge. *If the bicycle is in a wheelchair, isn't
> >it allowed to board first, along with the caregiver?
>
> I wonder how they'd handle me?
>
> My bicycle IS my wheelchair!
>
> Not that I have any intention of finding out, but it would be an
> interesting dilemma.

Maybe there'd be a market for something that looks like a regular
wheelchair but can be quickly converted into a serviceable bicycle
(wheelchairs travel free).

But I think I'll stick with my Bike Friday for airline trips.

[SMS]

peter wrote:

> In addition to golf bags, water and snow skis, and snowboards also
> appear to be exempt from the 62 linear inch (L + W + H) limit without
> an extra charge (the 50 lb. limit does still apply). However, scuba
> divers, lugers, surfers, and pole vaulters are in the same situation
> as cyclists.

A woman I know had some custom "golf bags" made up that look like golf
bags but that store her wind surfer somehow. I'm not into windsurfing so
I don't know the details, but apparently they are essentially over-size
golf bags. They've gotten away with not paying the extra baggage fees
for years.

At $350 r/t it's definitely time to look at alternatives that can fit
into a 62 inch case like a Bike Friday or a Gaerlan gt20. The "problem"
with S&S couplers is that they only work on round steel tubing as an
after-market product (they did manage one aluminum tandem customer but
the lugs are put on at the factory, not after-the-fact).

A company like Trek could turn the airline restrictions into a marketing
advantage by coming up with a program where dealers could provide
reasonably priced rental bicycles (say $100/week) to Trek owners that
are traveling.

[peter]

On Oct 16, 9:30*pm, SMS > wrote:
> peter wrote:
> > In addition to golf bags, water and snow skis, and snowboards also
> > appear to be exempt from the 62 linear inch (L + W + H) limit without
> > an extra charge (the 50 lb. limit does still apply). *However, scuba
> > divers, lugers, surfers, and pole vaulters are in the same situation
> > as cyclists.
>
> A woman I know had some custom "golf bags" made up that look like golf
> bags but that store her wind surfer somehow. I'm not into windsurfing so
> I don't know the details, but apparently they are essentially over-size
> golf bags. They've gotten away with not paying the extra baggage fees
> for years.

I've thought of doing something similar for my folding kayak. It
looks to me like it'll fit in one of the larger regular golf bags, so
I was thinking of getting one to replace the large duffel bag that it
came in originally. But I haven't flown with it recently and in the
past I was never charged extra despite the dimensions being over the
nominal limits (the airlines were always careful about weighing it,
but never brought out a tape measure).
>
> At $350 r/t it's definitely time to look at alternatives that can fit
> into a 62 inch case like a Bike Friday or a Gaerlan gt20. The "problem"
> with S&S couplers is that they only work on round steel tubing as an
> after-market product (they did manage one aluminum tandem customer but
> the lugs are put on at the factory, not after-the-fact).

It's also pretty tough to actually meet the 62" limit with 700c wheels
since the wheels alone are almost 27" long and wide for 54" leaving
only 8" for depth. 26" wheels are more feasible.
>
> A company like Trek could turn the airline restrictions into a marketing
> advantage by coming up with a program where dealers could provide
> reasonably priced rental bicycles (say $100/week) to Trek owners that
> are traveling.

Why limit it to Trek owners? Seems like it'd be a good way to
convince some of the renters that they like the bike enough to buy one
later.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> A company like Trek could turn the airline restrictions into a
> marketing
> advantage by coming up with a program where dealers could provide
> reasonably priced rental bicycles (say $100/week) to Trek owners that
> are traveling.

>>Why limit it to Trek owners? Seems like it'd be a good way to
>>convince some of the renters that they like the bike enough to buy one
>>later.

It's been looked into extensively. The problem is that the size of the
rental fleet would have to be substantial (people come in many sizes!),
the liability is significant (increased insurance premiums and in some
cases it's impossible to obtain rental insurance at all), and the amount
of time it takes to set someone up properly with a rental bike is little
different from what's involved in selling a bike (if you do it right).
Sure, there will be some who will know the exact seat height, exact
stem, and correct drop from saddle to bars etc. But most won't. Plus
wear & tear and getting the bike ready for each new rider. $100/week
wouldn't begin to cover it. Some local shops are doing high-quality road
bike rentals at $60-$80/day and still not doing well with it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"peter" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 16, 9:30 pm, SMS > wrote:
> peter wrote:
> > In addition to golf bags, water and snow skis, and snowboards also
> > appear to be exempt from the 62 linear inch (L + W + H) limit
> > without
> > an extra charge (the 50 lb. limit does still apply). However, scuba
> > divers, lugers, surfers, and pole vaulters are in the same situation
> > as cyclists.
>
> A woman I know had some custom "golf bags" made up that look like golf
> bags but that store her wind surfer somehow. I'm not into windsurfing
> so
> I don't know the details, but apparently they are essentially
> over-size
> golf bags. They've gotten away with not paying the extra baggage fees
> for years.

I've thought of doing something similar for my folding kayak. It
looks to me like it'll fit in one of the larger regular golf bags, so
I was thinking of getting one to replace the large duffel bag that it
came in originally. But I haven't flown with it recently and in the
past I was never charged extra despite the dimensions being over the
nominal limits (the airlines were always careful about weighing it,
but never brought out a tape measure).
>
> At $350 r/t it's definitely time to look at alternatives that can fit
> into a 62 inch case like a Bike Friday or a Gaerlan gt20. The
> "problem"
> with S&S couplers is that they only work on round steel tubing as an
> after-market product (they did manage one aluminum tandem customer but
> the lugs are put on at the factory, not after-the-fact).

It's also pretty tough to actually meet the 62" limit with 700c wheels
since the wheels alone are almost 27" long and wide for 54" leaving
only 8" for depth. 26" wheels are more feasible.
>
> A company like Trek could turn the airline restrictions into a
> marketing
> advantage by coming up with a program where dealers could provide
> reasonably priced rental bicycles (say $100/week) to Trek owners that
> are traveling.

Why limit it to Trek owners? Seems like it'd be a good way to
convince some of the renters that they like the bike enough to buy one
later.

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
SMS > wrote:

> peter wrote:
>
> > In addition to golf bags, water and snow skis, and snowboards also
> > appear to be exempt from the 62 linear inch (L + W + H) limit without
> > an extra charge (the 50 lb. limit does still apply). However, scuba
> > divers, lugers, surfers, and pole vaulters are in the same situation
> > as cyclists.
>
> A woman I know had some custom "golf bags" made up that look like golf
> bags but that store her wind surfer somehow. I'm not into windsurfing so
> I don't know the details, but apparently they are essentially over-size
> golf bags. They've gotten away with not paying the extra baggage fees
> for years.

Are you sure it was a windsurfer? Because those boards are huge (indeed,
the story is they spoiled it for surfers, who used to get free carriage
for surfboards, by representing much longer windsurf boards as
"surfboards"). Maybe for a break-apart design.

However, the general gambit of golf-like sports bags has been
institutionalized. Behold the kiteboarding golf bag:

http://greenhatkiteboarding.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&pr
oducts_id=183&currency=USD

This is one of many kiteboarding golf bags (that's the generic term)
that use protective mimicry (going as far, as you can see, to faux golf
branding) to pass as a golf bag. Note that kiteboards are way smaller
than windsurf boards, and probably smaller than surfboards in most
cases, so they pass as golf gear somewhat plausibly.

> At $350 r/t it's definitely time to look at alternatives that can fit
> into a 62 inch case like a Bike Friday or a Gaerlan gt20. The "problem"
> with S&S couplers is that they only work on round steel tubing as an
> after-market product (they did manage one aluminum tandem customer but
> the lugs are put on at the factory, not after-the-fact).
>
> A company like Trek could turn the airline restrictions into a marketing
> advantage by coming up with a program where dealers could provide
> reasonably priced rental bicycles (say $100/week) to Trek owners that
> are traveling.

Maybe. I suspect the bike shops that want to rent bikes are already
renting bikes, and the rest don't want to get into that business.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Dennis P. Harris]

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:49:07 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Mike
Jacoubowsky" > wrote:

> Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is under the 50
> pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for golf, archery or
> bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge to deal with.

Skiers get to ship ski bags as ordinary baggage, too.

[Alex Colvin]

>At $350 r/t it's definitely time to look at alternatives that can fit

At those prices, it's cheaper (and more reliable) to have the bike
shipped.
--
mac the naïf

[Dennis Ferguson]

On 2008-10-17, peter > wrote:
> It's also pretty tough to actually meet the 62" limit with 700c wheels
> since the wheels alone are almost 27" long and wide for 54" leaving
> only 8" for depth. 26" wheels are more feasible.

700c rims are less than 26 inches in diameter (the diameter at the
bead seat is 622 mm, or 24.5 inches) so the wheels will fit in the
26x26x10 S&S hard case if the tires are skinny or if you let the air
out of your fat tires. I use the canvas case, which is nominally the
same size, since my steerer tube is cut a wee bit too long for the
fork to fit in 26 inches; it bulges the corner of the canvas case
out a bit.

Dennis Ferguson

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

Got a response from United that was not a form letter, and indicated
that someone had actually paid attention to what I'd written. Of course
it included all sorts of stuff about needing to have funds to keep the
planes flying and fares low. I wrote a follow-up letter and am
absolutely positively not letting this drop.

But PLEASE email United yourselves!!! It can make a difference.

Try this link and see if it works-
http://faq.ua2go.com/display/4/kb/atr/index.asp?tab=atr&r=0.616482

If not, go to www.ual.com, click on the "Customer service" across the
top right of the page, and choose "submit a question."

Time is of the essence. The more people who write in, sooner, the better
the chances something might be done. They *are* hearing from people.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote in message
...
> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350
> round trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to
> international travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is
> outrageous, especially considering that Southwest charges
> nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle.
> Other airlines are somewhere in-between.
> If this is an issue that could affect you (and it likely is!), please
> consider letting United Airlines know how you feel about it. It's not
> an easy process; you have to navigate through a lot of garbage on
> their website, but you start here.
>
> Below is the email I sent. I'll let people know if/when I get a reply.
> The more people who let United know about their displeasure on this
> matter, the more likely it is we might see the price increases rolled
> back. Thanks- --Mike--
>
> ==============================
> Regarding: New fees for bicycles
>
> Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350
> round trip). Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is
> under the 50 pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for
> golf, archery or bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge
> to deal with.
>
> I have been 2P/Premier for the past several years, and had intended to
> remain so for some time to come. But there are alternative carriers
> not charging such high fees for cyclists, some charging nothing extra
> whatsoever, others in the $50 range.
>
> My customers (I own a large retail bicycle shop) are talking about
> United's new bicycle charges frequently, and many have spoken of
> looking at alternatives.
>
> Why does United want to drive us away? Those flying with bikes are
> typically your better customers in the upper elite ranks. They
> represent a lot of $$$. It seems that United might want to go to some
> trouble attracting, rather than annoying, such customers.
>
> We're not asking for you to carry bikes for free, but rather a
> reasonable charge, and parity with what other non-standard baggage
> (such as the previously-mentioned golf, archery & bowling)is charged.
>
> Thanks for your consideration of this important issue-
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky
> Partner
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
>
> ============================
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Oct 17, 1:06*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
> Got a response from United that was not a form letter, and indicated
> that someone had actually paid attention to what I'd written. Of course
> it included all sorts of stuff about needing to have funds to keep the
> planes flying and fares low. I wrote a follow-up letter and am
> absolutely positively not letting this drop.
>
> But PLEASE email United yourselves!!! It can make a difference.
>
> Try this link and see if it works-http://faq.ua2go.com/display/4/kb/atr/index.asp?tab=atr&r=0.616482
>
> If not, go towww.ual.com, click on the "Customer service" across the
> top right of the page, and choose "submit a question."
>
> Time is of the essence. The more people who write in, sooner, the better
> the chances something might be done. They *are* hearing from people.
>
> --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.comOn Oct 15, 9:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
> especially considering that Southwest charges
> nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle. Other
> airlines are somewhere in-between.
> If this is an issue that could affect you (and it likely is!), please
> consider letting United Airlines know how you feel about it. It's not an
> easy process; you have to navigate through a lot of garbage on their
> website, but you start here.
>
> Below is the email I sent. I'll let people know if/when I get a reply.
> The more people who let United know about their displeasure on this
> matter, the more likely it is we might see the price increases rolled
> back. Thanks- --Mike--

Even the prior fee of $125 seems exorbitant to me.

I will write a letter (and perhaps e-mail as well). But it seems to
me this is something that cycling organizations should be attacking
with a vengeance. What is the League of American Bicyclists doing?
Mike, what are your various industry groups doing?

- Frank Krygowski

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:


> Plus
> wear & tear and getting the bike ready for each new rider. $100/week
> wouldn't begin to cover it. Some local shops are doing high-quality road
> bike rentals at $60-$80/day and still not doing well with it.

It always amazes me that I can rent a vehicle with a $20,000 street
price for about $40 per day, but to rent a bicycle with a $2000 street
price costs $80 a day.

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Oct 17, 8:04*pm, Frank Krygowski > wrote:
> On Oct 17, 1:06*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
>
> > Got a response from United that was not a form letter, and indicated
> > that someone had actually paid attention to what I'd written. Of course
> > it included all sorts of stuff about needing to have funds to keep the
> > planes flying and fares low. I wrote a follow-up letter and am
> > absolutely positively not letting this drop.
>
> > But PLEASE email United yourselves!!! It can make a difference.
>
> > Try this link and see if it works-http://faq.ua2go.com/display/4/kb/atr/index.asp?tab=atr&r=0.616482
>
> > If not, go towww.ual.com, click on the "Customer service" across the
> > top right of the page, and choose "submit a question."
>
> > Time is of the essence. The more people who write in, sooner, the better
> > the chances something might be done. They *are* hearing from people.
>
> > --Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.comOnOct 15, 9:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
> > HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> > United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> > raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> > trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> > travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
> > especially considering that Southwest charges
> > nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle. Other
> > airlines are somewhere in-between.
> > If this is an issue that could affect you (and it likely is!), please
> > consider letting United Airlines know how you feel about it. It's not an
> > easy process; you have to navigate through a lot of garbage on their
> > website, but you start here.
>
> > Below is the email I sent. I'll let people know if/when I get a reply.
> > The more people who let United know about their displeasure on this
> > matter, the more likely it is we might see the price increases rolled
> > back. *Thanks- *--Mike--
>
> Even the prior fee of $125 seems exorbitant to me.
>
> I will write a letter (and perhaps e-mail as well). *But it seems to
> me this is something that cycling organizations should be attacking
> with a vengeance. *What is the League of American Bicyclists doing?
> Mike, what are your various industry groups doing?
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

Gald you asked!

The League of American Wheelmen long ago forced the blood-sucking
transportation industry to bow to the demands of cyclists for free
carriage of highwheelers:

"The following railroads have issued instructions to carry bicycles
free, at owners' risks, in
baggage-cars, when accompanied by owners, and upon presentation of
first-class tickets: Baltimore & Ohio; Grand Trunk; Chicago and Grand
Trunk; Wabash, St. Louis, & Pacific; Illinois Central; Chicago, Alton,
& St. Louis; Wheeling & Lake Erie; Cleveland & Marietta; Ohio &
Central; New York, Chicago, & St.Louis; Lake Erie & Western; Detroit,
Grand Haven, & Milwaukee."

--Outing Magazine, 1883
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII02/outII02s.pdf

After the first few railways gave in, the rest toppled like dominoes:

"We give a list of railroads that have issued circulars of instruction
to baggage-masters and
station agents to pass bicycles free in baggage cars when accompanied
by owner, and upon
presentation of first-class ticket:"

"Baltimore & Ohio. Grand Trunk. Chicago & Grand Trunk. Wabash, St.
Louis, & Pacific. Illinois Central. Chicago, Alton, & St. Louis.
Wheeling & Lake Erie. Cleveland & Marietta. Ohio Central.
New York, Chicago, & St. Louis. Lake Erie & Western. Cleveland,
Lorain, & Wheeling. Flint & Pere Marquette. Grand Central Chicago,
Burlington, & Quincy. Chicago & Iowa. Grand Union. Kansas City, St.
Joseph, & Council Bluffs. Cleveland, Tuscarawas Valley, & Wheeling.
Vandalia Line. Grand Rapids & Indiana. Indiana, Bloomington, &
Western. Valley Ry. Cleveland, Akron, & P.) Michigan Central. Canada
Southern. Ohio & Mississippi. Cleveland, Columbus, Cincin., &
Indianapolis. Indianapolis & St. Louis. Cincinnati, Hamilton, &
Dayton. Chicago & West Michigan. Louisville, New Albany, & Chicago.
Chicago, Milwaukee, and St. Paul. Delaware, Lackawanna, & Western.
Chicago & Eastern Illinois."

--Outing Magazine, 1883
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/outII03r.pdf

Regrettably, bicycles were still held hostage by railways in the UK:

The following are the rates for transporting bicycles in England, as
luggage, at the owner’s
risk :
s. d.
Under 50 miles, 1 0.
Over 50 " under 75, 1 6.
" 75 " " 100, 2 0.
" 100 " " 150, 2 6.

--Outing magazine, 1883
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII05/outII05q.pdf

Eventually, the scoundrels in charge of the US railroads managed to
enforce outrageous baggage charges, except where upright legislators
forced them to carry our bicycles for free:

"With laws now in force compelling railroads to transport bicycles as
baggage free of charge
in New York, Ohio and Rhode Island, and with a probability that
similar legislation will be
enacted in many other States within a twelvemonth, several of the
great trunk lines are experimenting with devices for the carriage of
wheels suspended from the ceiling and attached
to the sides of baggage cars, after the manner of the French
railways."

"The Pennsylvania lines west of Pittsburg and the Chicago, Milwaukee &
St. Paul Railway are already running a few such cars—the former
between Pittsburg and Chicago, and the latter between Chicago and
Minneapolis. The results seem equally satisfactory to traveling
wheelmen and to the transportation companies. It has been found that
twenty-five wheels may be carried in an ordinary baggage car without
interfering with other baggage, the former utilizing the otherwise
unused space, and requiring no floor room at all."

"It is probable that within two years a majority of all baggage cars
on the principal lines of the railroad States and Canada will be
fitted up for the carriage of bicycles, and that an extra charge for
transportation will be the exception rather than the rule."

"On October 1st the railroads of the New England States began the
'minimum rate charge' for the transportation of bicycles when
accompanied by their owners, and one month's trial
of the plan proves it to be the most satisfactory solution of the
bicycles-as-baggage problem.
Upon the payment of very reasonable charges, the railroads agree to
check and treat bicycles
as baggage, assuming all responsibility for their safe delivery. Such
a system is preferable to
their free carriage, as in the latter case accidents to machines in
transit are much more
are much more frequent, and there is generally no possible redress
therefor."

"It is probable that special cars for the transportation of wheels
will be run for the convenience of tourists on the principal lines of
the N. Y., N. H. & H. R. R., and the
Boston and Maine next season. The following table is the schedule now
in force on all the
New England lines:"

Ticket Rate Charge for Bicycle
$0.05 to 0.74 10 cents
0.75 to 0.99 15 cents
1.00 to 1.49 20 cents
1.50 to 1.99 25 cents
2.00 to 2.49 30 cents
2.50 to 2.99 35 cents
3.00 to 3.49 40 cents
3.50 to 3.99 45 cents
4.00 to 4.49 50 cents
4.50 to 4.99 55 cents
5.00 to 5.49 60 cents
5.50 to 5.99 65 cents
6.00 to 6.49 70 cents
6.50 to 6.99 75 cents
7.00 to 7.49 80 cents
7.50 to 7.99 85 cents
8.00 to 8.99 90 cents
9.00 to 10.00 $1.00

--Outing Magazine, 1898
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_29/outXXIX04/outXXIX04y.pdf

Of course, modern carriers may be slightly more concerned about the
insurance question, given the $5,000 bicycles involved.

And they might laugh at the notion that bicyclists are somehow on a
par (sorry, couldn't resist it) with golfers as airline customers.
Golfers who want to take their toys with them greatly outnumber flying
bicyclists. You can see the golf courses from the airplane windows and
rent clubs in practically any city in the US.

When Mike and his fellow bike shop owners can make a profit renting
bicycles, the airlines will lower their charges. That's what happened
back in the bike boom, circa 1890, as the quotations above point out.
Today, there aren't enough bicyclists who want to take their wheels
with them to matter to the airlines, particularly when the airlines
are desperate enough to charge for ordinary bags.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"SMS" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>
>> Plus wear & tear and getting the bike ready for each new rider.
>> $100/week wouldn't begin to cover it. Some local shops are doing
>> high-quality road bike rentals at $60-$80/day and still not doing
>> well with it.
>
> It always amazes me that I can rent a vehicle with a $20,000 street
> price for about $40 per day, but to rent a bicycle with a $2000 street
> price costs $80 a day.

DUM. Depreciation, utililzation and maintenance. Bicycles lose out on
all three.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"SMS" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>
>> Plus wear & tear and getting the bike ready for each new rider.
>> $100/week wouldn't begin to cover it. Some local shops are doing
>> high-quality road bike rentals at $60-$80/day and still not doing
>> well with it.
>
> It always amazes me that I can rent a vehicle with a $20,000 street
> price for about $40 per day, but to rent a bicycle with a $2000 street
> price costs $80 a day.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 17, 9:53 pm, " >
wrote:
> On Oct 17, 8:04 pm, Frank Krygowski > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 1:06 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
>
> > > Got a response from United that was not a form letter, and indicated
> > > that someone had actually paid attention to what I'd written. Of course
> > > it included all sorts of stuff about needing to have funds to keep the
> > > planes flying and fares low. I wrote a follow-up letter and am
> > > absolutely positively not letting this drop.
>
> > > But PLEASE email United yourselves!!! It can make a difference.
>
> > > Try this link and see if it works-http://faq.ua2go.com/display/4/kb/atr/index.asp?tab=atr&r=0.616482
>
> > > If not, go towww.ual.com, click on the "Customer service" across the
> > > top right of the page, and choose "submit a question."
>
> > > Time is of the essence. The more people who write in, sooner, the better
> > > the chances something might be done. They *are* hearing from people.
>
> > > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.comOnOct15, 9:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
> > > HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> > > United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> > > raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> > > trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> > > travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
> > > especially considering that Southwest charges
> > > nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle. Other
> > > airlines are somewhere in-between.
> > > If this is an issue that could affect you (and it likely is!), please
> > > consider letting United Airlines know how you feel about it. It's not an
> > > easy process; you have to navigate through a lot of garbage on their
> > > website, but you start here.
>
> > > Below is the email I sent. I'll let people know if/when I get a reply..
> > > The more people who let United know about their displeasure on this
> > > matter, the more likely it is we might see the price increases rolled
> > > back. Thanks- --Mike--
>
> > Even the prior fee of $125 seems exorbitant to me.
>
> > I will write a letter (and perhaps e-mail as well). But it seems to
> > me this is something that cycling organizations should be attacking
> > with a vengeance. What is the League of American Bicyclists doing?
> > Mike, what are your various industry groups doing?
>
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> Gald you asked!
>
> The League of American Wheelmen long ago forced the blood-sucking
> transportation industry to bow to the demands of cyclists for free
> carriage of highwheelers:
>
> "The following railroads have issued instructions to carry bicycles
> free, at owners' risks, in
> baggage-cars, when accompanied by owners, and upon presentation of
> first-class tickets: Baltimore & Ohio; Grand Trunk; Chicago and Grand
> Trunk; Wabash, St. Louis, & Pacific; Illinois Central; Chicago, Alton,
> & St. Louis; Wheeling & Lake Erie; Cleveland & Marietta; Ohio &
> Central; New York, Chicago, & St.Louis; Lake Erie & Western; Detroit,
> Grand Haven, & Milwaukee."
>
> --Outing Magazine, 1883
> http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII02/...
>
> After the first few railways gave in, the rest toppled like dominoes:

That was before the bike boom and it wasn't a big deal for railroads
to offer the service. Later on it became in their eyes a major ordeal.
The fight for the Armstrong Baggage Bill in New York was nasty and
drawn out.The baggage laws came and went tracing the parabolic
trajectory of the political clout of the wheelmen.


> "We give a list of railroads that have issued circulars of instruction
> to baggage-masters and
> station agents to pass bicycles free in baggage cars when accompanied
> by owner, and upon
> presentation of first-class ticket:"
>
> "Baltimore & Ohio. Grand Trunk. Chicago & Grand Trunk. Wabash, St.
> Louis, & Pacific. Illinois Central. Chicago, Alton, & St. Louis.
> Wheeling & Lake Erie. Cleveland & Marietta. Ohio Central.
> New York, Chicago, & St. Louis. Lake Erie & Western. Cleveland,
> Lorain, & Wheeling. Flint & Pere Marquette. Grand Central Chicago,
> Burlington, & Quincy. Chicago & Iowa. Grand Union. Kansas City, St.
> Joseph, & Council Bluffs. Cleveland, Tuscarawas Valley, & Wheeling.
> Vandalia Line. Grand Rapids & Indiana. Indiana, Bloomington, &
> Western. Valley Ry. Cleveland, Akron, & P.) Michigan Central. Canada
> Southern. Ohio & Mississippi. Cleveland, Columbus, Cincin., &
> Indianapolis. Indianapolis & St. Louis. Cincinnati, Hamilton, &
> Dayton. Chicago & West Michigan. Louisville, New Albany, & Chicago.
> Chicago, Milwaukee, and St. Paul. Delaware, Lackawanna, & Western.
> Chicago & Eastern Illinois."
>
> --Outing Magazine, 1883
> http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII03/...
>
> Regrettably, bicycles were still held hostage by railways in the UK:
>
> The following are the rates for transporting bicycles in England, as
> luggage, at the owner’s
> risk :
> s. d.
> Under 50 miles, 1 0.
> Over 50 " under 75, 1 6.
> " 75 " " 100, 2 0.
> " 100 " " 150, 2 6.
>
> --Outing magazine, 1883
> http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_02/outII05/...
>
> Eventually, the scoundrels in charge of the US railroads managed to
> enforce outrageous baggage charges, except where upright legislators
> forced them to carry our bicycles for free:
>
> "With laws now in force compelling railroads to transport bicycles as
> baggage free of charge
> in New York, Ohio and Rhode Island, and with a probability that
> similar legislation will be
> enacted in many other States within a twelvemonth, several of the
> great trunk lines are experimenting with devices for the carriage of
> wheels suspended from the ceiling and attached
> to the sides of baggage cars, after the manner of the French
> railways."
>
> "The Pennsylvania lines west of Pittsburg and the Chicago, Milwaukee &
> St. Paul Railway are already running a few such cars—the former
> between Pittsburg and Chicago, and the latter between Chicago and
> Minneapolis. The results seem equally satisfactory to traveling
> wheelmen and to the transportation companies. It has been found that
> twenty-five wheels may be carried in an ordinary baggage car without
> interfering with other baggage, the former utilizing the otherwise
> unused space, and requiring no floor room at all."
>
> "It is probable that within two years a majority of all baggage cars
> on the principal lines of the railroad States and Canada will be
> fitted up for the carriage of bicycles, and that an extra charge for
> transportation will be the exception rather than the rule."
>
> "On October 1st the railroads of the New England States began the
> 'minimum rate charge' for the transportation of bicycles when
> accompanied by their owners, and one month's trial
> of the plan proves it to be the most satisfactory solution of the
> bicycles-as-baggage problem.
> Upon the payment of very reasonable charges, the railroads agree to
> check and treat bicycles
> as baggage, assuming all responsibility for their safe delivery. Such
> a system is preferable to
> their free carriage, as in the latter case accidents to machines in
> transit are much more
> are much more frequent, and there is generally no possible redress
> therefor."
>
> "It is probable that special cars for the transportation of wheels
> will be run for the convenience of tourists on the principal lines of
> the N. Y., N. H. & H. R. R., and the
> Boston and Maine next season. The following table is the schedule now
> in force on all the
> New England lines:"
>
> Ticket Rate Charge for Bicycle
> $0.05 to 0.74 10 cents
> 0.75 to 0.99 15 cents
> 1.00 to 1.49 20 cents
> 1.50 to 1.99 25 cents
> 2.00 to 2.49 30 cents
> 2.50 to 2.99 35 cents
> 3.00 to 3.49 40 cents
> 3.50 to 3.99 45 cents
> 4.00 to 4.49 50 cents
> 4.50 to 4.99 55 cents
> 5.00 to 5.49 60 cents
> 5.50 to 5.99 65 cents
> 6.00 to 6.49 70 cents
> 6.50 to 6.99 75 cents
> 7.00 to 7.49 80 cents
> 7.50 to 7.99 85 cents
> 8.00 to 8.99 90 cents
> 9.00 to 10.00 $1.00
>
> --Outing Magazine, 1898
> http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_29/outXXIX0...
>
> Of course, modern carriers may be slightly more concerned about the
> insurance question, given the $5,000 bicycles involved.
>
> And they might laugh at the notion that bicyclists are somehow on a
> par (sorry, couldn't resist it) with golfers as airline customers.
> Golfers who want to take their toys with them greatly outnumber flying
> bicyclists. You can see the golf courses from the airplane windows and
> rent clubs in practically any city in the US.
>
> When Mike and his fellow bike shop owners can make a profit renting
> bicycles, the airlines will lower their charges. That's what happened
> back in the bike boom, circa 1890, as the quotations above point out.
> Today, there aren't enough bicyclists who want to take their wheels
> with them to matter to the airlines, particularly when the airlines
> are desperate enough to charge for ordinary bags.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

[peter]

On Oct 17, 9:03*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
> "SMS" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> >> Plus wear & tear and getting the bike ready for each new rider.
> >> $100/week wouldn't begin to cover it. Some local shops are doing
> >> high-quality road bike rentals at $60-$80/day and still not doing
> >> well with it.
>
> > It always amazes me that I can rent a vehicle with a $20,000 street
> > price for about $40 per day, but to rent a bicycle with a $2000 street
> > price costs $80 a day.
>
> DUM. Depreciation, utililzation and maintenance. Bicycles lose out on
> all three.

Especially utilization in most areas. You'd need to tie up a lot of
inventory to have enough variety and sizing for potential customers
and most of it would be sitting idle.

But in areas that attract a higher density of rental customers it
should be more feasible. The bike/ski shop in Banff offers a 5 day,
CAD$130 rental plan which lets you have a choice between comfort/
commuter, mountain, road, and touring (incl. racks, bags, tool kit,
etc.). You can switch off bike types during the 5 days as desired if
you want to explore trails one day and then take a short tour or do
some road riding.
[Not quite SMS's suggested $100/wk, but at least fairly close.]

Don't know if they still do this, but they used to offer an option to
rent a fully-equipped touring bike and drop it off at the bike shop in
Jasper (or vice versa) for those wanting to do a one-way tour through
the Canadian Rockies.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Brian Huntley wrote:
> On Oct 16, 3:43 pm, "Leo Lichtman" >
> wrote:
>> "Ryan Cousineau" wrote: For that price, on many routes, it could be
>>
>> cheaper to buy a seat for> your bicycle and put it in the cabin.
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Especially since the bicycle, ticketed as a passenger, is allowed to have
>> some luggage at no extra charge. If the bicycle is in a wheelchair, isn't
>> it allowed to board first, along with the caregiver?
>
> So, we need bikes that convert into wheelchairs.

My bicycle is an inline wheelchair. ;)

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Dennis P. Harris wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:49:07 -0700 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Mike
> Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
>
>> Besides being difficult to justify when a bicycle is under the 50
>> pound weight limit, United does *not* charge extra for golf, archery or
>> bowling equipment, all of which represent a challenge to deal with.
>
> Skiers get to ship ski bags as ordinary baggage, too.
>
Skiers and golfers are seen as upscale customers, many who also fly for
business. Cyclists are a much smaller (but of course, superior) fringe
group.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 15, 6:49*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" >
wrote:
<Snip>
> Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350 round
> trip).
<Snip>

Hey Mike...not that I'm a callous person or anything,
but Joe the Plumber and I are finding it hard to get very worked up
about this.
We never get to go on vacation anyway so why would we care?

Bike, bike, bike, meow,
ABS

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
> especially considering that Southwest charges
> nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle.

The Southwest web site states otherwise:

"Non-motorized Bicycles, including Bike Friday and Co-Pilot, will be
accepted in substitution of a free piece of checked baggage at no
additional charge provided the bicycle is properly packaged and the box
containing the bicycle fits within the 62-inch sizing limit and weighs
50 lbs or less . (Maximum weight is 50 pounds and maximum size is 62
inches (length + width + height) per checked piece of luggage). The
handlebars, kickstand, and pedals must be removed and placed inside the
box. A $50.00 each-way charge applies to bicycles that don’t meet the
above criteria. Bicycles packaged in a cardboard box or soft-sided case
will be transported as a conditionally accepted item."

"http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/sports_equipment.html"

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" > writes:
> HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEES FOR BIKES ON AIRPLANES???
>
> United Airlines, my airline of choice for the last few years, just
> raised the price of carrying a bike, one way, to $175. That's $350 round
> trip. For US travel. I have yet to see references to international
> travel, but assume it's the same, or worse. This is outrageous,
> especially considering that Southwest charges
> nothing...zero...zilch...nada... for carrying a standard bicycle. Other
> airlines are somewhere in-between.

I recently heard on an AM newsradio blurb that airlines are
really suffering from the current stock market meltdown.

I'm not surprised they're scrambling for every penny they
can pinch.

The same news blurb predicted a lot of airlines are gonna
go bust. I guess we'll see what happens in the fullment
of time. I've also heard it highly recommended to purchase
airfare w/ your credit card so you have some paper trail
to fall back upon in case you get stranded by a financially
exploded airline like AlItalia.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[SMS]

Tom Keats wrote:

> I'm not surprised they're scrambling for every penny they
> can pinch.

Seems like they simply don't want to use cargo space for bicycles. $175
is rather insane. At $50 they'd get a few takers, at $175 almost none.

The airlines aren't really interested in leisure travelers any more.
They can't run an airline on $300 coast to coast round trip fares. I
checked into going back east (SFO-MIA) over XMAS, and the fares over the
holdiday period are about 50% higher than last year, around $700 versu
$475. With the greatly reduced capacity they can probably fill the
remaining seats at $700, but not with my $700.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

aka Alan. B. Stew wrote:
> On Oct 15, 6:49 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" >
> wrote:
> <Snip>
>> Recently United raised the one-way fee for bicycles to $175 ($350 round
>> trip).
> <Snip>
>
> Hey Mike...not that I'm a callous person or anything,
> but Joe the Plumber and I are finding it hard to get very worked up
> about this.
> We never get to go on vacation anyway so why would we care?
>
What is a vacation?

> Bike, bike, bike, meow,

My kitty is not really into cycling.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Oct 17, 10:04*pm, Frank Krygowski > wrote:
>
> I will write a letter (and perhaps e-mail as well). *But it seems to
> me this is something that cycling organizations should be attacking
> with a vengeance. *What is the League of American Bicyclists doing?
> Mike, what are your various industry groups doing?

Here's United's response to my e-mail. I've already responded, noting
that $175 is exorbitant for a few minutes "special handling," and that
other airlines have flown our bikes for free.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your disappointment with the fee for carrying bicycles with United is
understood.

Mr. Krygowski, please know that bikes must be hand-delivered for
loading
into a special space in an aircraft's cargo area, unloaded to a
special
waiting area, and hand-delivered to the baggage claim area. This
special handling necessitates a fee for domestic travel. Still your
disappointment is understood. We want to be aware of how our policy
feels from your point of view, so your candid comments will be shared
with our management teams responsible for decisions about the products
and services that our guests value most.

We look forward to serving you soon.

Regards,

Ranbir Singh
United Airlines Customer Relations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Frank Krygowski

[[email protected]]

All true enough, and maybe enough to justify a fee of, say, $25 o/w.
But not a charge that's more than the price of some bikes. (I know,
notw yours...)
Did you happen to hear if they charge a fee like that to haul snow
skis? Around here, where even the car license plates tout the ski
industry, that would be a stab in the back, and the powers that be would
lean on the airline about it.


Bill

__o | The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
_`\(,_ | The people who count the votes decide everything.
(_)/ (_) | - Joseph Stalin

Frank Krygowski > wrote:
> On Oct 17, 10:04*pm, Frank Krygowski > wrote:
> >
> > I will write a letter (and perhaps e-mail as well). *But it seems to
> > me this is something that cycling organizations should be attacking
> > with a vengeance. *What is the League of American Bicyclists doing?
> > Mike, what are your various industry groups doing?

> Here's United's response to my e-mail. I've already responded, noting
> that $175 is exorbitant for a few minutes "special handling," and that
> other airlines have flown our bikes for free.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> Your disappointment with the fee for carrying bicycles with United is
> understood.

> Mr. Krygowski, please know that bikes must be hand-delivered for
> loading
> into a special space in an aircraft's cargo area, unloaded to a
> special
> waiting area, and hand-delivered to the baggage claim area. This
> special handling necessitates a fee for domestic travel. Still your
> disappointment is understood. We want to be aware of how our policy
> feels from your point of view, so your candid comments will be shared
> with our management teams responsible for decisions about the products
> and services that our guests value most.

> We look forward to serving you soon.

> Regards,

> Ranbir Singh
> United Airlines Customer Relations

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> - Frank Krygowski

[Mike A Schwab]

On Oct 19, 10:47*pm, Tom Sherman >
wrote:
<deleted>
> What is a vacation?
<deleted>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3Tzut&doc_id=3677&v=E7
http://kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/index.htm

Book Research and Photo Taking for 5 years 3 books, so far, now in
California.
http://downtheroad.org/

[[email protected]]

On Oct 19, 8:47*pm, Tom Sherman >
wrote:
> My kitty is not really into cycling.

Tom....but don't you wish your kitty could dance (on the pedals) like
this:
http://racing.vanderkitten.com/bios.html

: )
ABS

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

aka Alan Stew wrote:
> On Oct 19, 8:47 pm, Tom Sherman >
> wrote:
>> My kitty is not really into cycling.
>
> Tom....but don't you wish your kitty could dance (on the pedals) like
> this:
> http://racing.vanderkitten.com/bios.html
>
> : )

They are cute also.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > writes:
> aka Alan Stew wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 8:47 pm, Tom Sherman >
>> wrote:
>>> My kitty is not really into cycling.
>>
>> Tom....but don't you wish your kitty could dance (on the pedals) like
>> this:
>> http://racing.vanderkitten.com/bios.html
>>
>> : )
>
> They are cute also.

I like all kinds of fellow animules.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Don Wiss]

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008, Frank Krygowski > wrote:

>Your disappointment with the fee for carrying bicycles with United is
>understood.
>
>Mr. Krygowski, please know that bikes must be hand-delivered for loading
>into a special space in an aircraft's cargo area, unloaded to a special
>waiting area, and hand-delivered to the baggage claim area. This
>special handling necessitates a fee for domestic travel.

I tried reading most of the prior thread, but I was unable to find whether
you had the bike in a box or not. If no box I can see the high charge. In a
box I can't.

>Ranbir Singh
>United Airlines Customer Relations

So they have their e-mail responded to from India.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>>Mr. Krygowski, please know that bikes must be hand-delivered for
>>loading
>>into a special space in an aircraft's cargo area, unloaded to a
>>special
>>waiting area, and hand-delivered to the baggage claim area. This
>>special handling necessitates a fee for domestic travel.
>
> I tried reading most of the prior thread, but I was unable to find
> whether
> you had the bike in a box or not. If no box I can see the high charge.
> In a
> box I can't.

United requires that bikes be in a box or protective bag.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Oct 22, 3:40*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" >
wrote:
> >>Mr. Krygowski, please know that bikes must be hand-delivered for
> >>loading
> >>into a special space in an aircraft's cargo area, unloaded to a
> >>special
> >>waiting area, and hand-delivered to the baggage claim area. *This
> >>special handling necessitates a fee for domestic travel.
>
> > I tried reading most of the prior thread, but I was unable to find
> > whether
> > you had the bike in a box or not. If no box I can see the high charge.
> > In a
> > box I can't.
>
> United requires that bikes be in a box or protective bag.

It was way back in 1976 that we flew British Air with our bikes, and I
don't know their current policy. But all they asked was that we turn
the handlebars and remove the pedals. They made no fuss at all. In
fact, they seemed to treat it as a pleasant diversion from the normal
luggage.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > writes:

>> We never get to go on vacation anyway so why would we care?
>>
> What is a vacation?

That's where, in your endeavours to relax and get away
from it all, you work harder than you usually do during
your workaday life, and then suddenly wonder if you left
the stove turned off as soon as it's too late to do
anything about it.


cheers, & Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca