Please don't ride wrong-way on the sidewalk.

[Luigi de Guzman]

OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post.

I haven't ridden my bike in ages. My commute isn't cyclable, and my
schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
more. This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
about.

That would--and does-- make me happy. I envy the guy who can ride to
work/school every day.

But please, guys, stay safe out there. I have nearly broadsided two
cyclists in the past two weeks. Same situation: I'm waiting to turn
right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. Since it's a divided
highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
in oncoming traffic.

Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
intersection. I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.

Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
the roadway. But it gives me a scare every time.

Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. You feel safer,
because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
would be a much worse fate.

Be careful out there.

[Dre[_3_]]

"Luigi de Guzman" > wrote in message
...
> OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post.
>
> I haven't ridden my bike in ages. My commute isn't cyclable, and my
> schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
> more. This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
> about.
>
> That would--and does-- make me happy. I envy the guy who can ride to
> work/school every day.
>
> But please, guys, stay safe out there. I have nearly broadsided two
> cyclists in the past two weeks. Same situation: I'm waiting to turn
> right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. Since it's a divided
> highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
> in oncoming traffic.
>
> Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
> intersection. I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
> since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.
>
> Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
> the roadway. But it gives me a scare every time.
>
> Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. You feel safer,
> because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> would be a much worse fate.
>
> Be careful out there.

So how is this different to a pedestrian walking the opposite way to the
traffic flow on the footpath??

Dont you look both ways just before you start to take off?

Just because the traffic doesn't flow in that direction doesn't mean that
you dont need to look there. You enter the intersection if it is safe to do
so, and that means both ways IMO.

The fact that it gives you a scare every time should tell you something...

Cheers Dre

[rms[_2_]]

> Just because the traffic doesn't flow in that direction doesn't mean that
> you dont need to look there.

The bristling "you're to blame not me" response is the wrong one. It is
safest for the cyclist to assume he is invisible to motorists, whether on
the sidewalk or street, and adopt an entirely defensive, indeed deprecatory
attitude towards them. Is it such an imposition to pause at intersections,
and wait until either the area is free of vehicles, or making eye contact
with drivers before crossing?

rms

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:09:02 +1100, Dre wrote:

>
>
> So how is this different to a pedestrian walking the opposite way to the
> traffic flow on the footpath??

A pedestrian moves a lot slower than a cyclist.

It's about timing. I can see and react to a slower-moving pedestrian who
is walking on the sidewalk against the flow of traffic.

Incidentally, my own experience on a bicycle confirms this. I had many
more almost-broadsides when I was riding against the flow of traffic on
the sidewalk than when I would ride in the roadway, with the flow of
traffic.

Notice the facts, above, as well. This is a right turn onto a divided
highway. On either side of the median it's one-way traffic. I have no
reason to expect a vehicle approaching me at speed from the wrong way.
This would be a different story on an undivided road with two-way
traffic, since I'd have to check in both directions more often.


--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[Dre[_3_]]

"rms" > wrote in message
...
>> Just because the traffic doesn't flow in that direction doesn't mean that
>> you dont need to look there.
>
> The bristling "you're to blame not me" response is the wrong one. It
> is safest for the cyclist to assume he is invisible to motorists, whether
> on the sidewalk or street, and adopt an entirely defensive, indeed
> deprecatory attitude towards them. Is it such an imposition to pause at
> intersections, and wait until either the area is free of vehicles, or
> making eye contact with drivers before crossing?
>
> rms
>

I'm not suggesting that the either party in the OP's post was the one to
blame, nor am I blaming anyone. I was commenting on the way the OP was
suggesting that stop people riding the opposite way to the flow of traffic
on the footpath because they weren't looking around enough. Thats crap IMO,
the cyclist could have been a ped, or a motorbike. Quote "it gives me a
scare every time" implies that it happens a lot and in my opinion means that
the OP isn't looking around enough.

I totally agree with what you are saying about being invisible, I allways
make a point of making eye contact, its the easiest way to determine if
someone has seen you. But even this isn't enough, only 2 days ago I had to
do evasive actions to stop ending up going over a cars bonnet, the person
driving made clear eye contact, but still didn't process that I was there.

Cheers Dre

[Dre[_3_]]

"Luigi de Guzman" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:09:02 +1100, Dre wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> So how is this different to a pedestrian walking the opposite way to the
>> traffic flow on the footpath??
>
> A pedestrian moves a lot slower than a cyclist.
>
> It's about timing. I can see and react to a slower-moving pedestrian who
> is walking on the sidewalk against the flow of traffic.
>
> Incidentally, my own experience on a bicycle confirms this. I had many
> more almost-broadsides when I was riding against the flow of traffic on
> the sidewalk than when I would ride in the roadway, with the flow of
> traffic.
>
> Notice the facts, above, as well. This is a right turn onto a divided
> highway. On either side of the median it's one-way traffic. I have no
> reason to expect a vehicle approaching me at speed from the wrong way.
> This would be a different story on an undivided road with two-way
> traffic, since I'd have to check in both directions more often.
>
>
> --
> Luigi de Guzman
> http://ouij.livejournal.com
>
Expect the unexpected is what I say when driving. Its nuts to assume that a
highway is any less prone to having stupid stuff done on it than a normal
road. Even if you know that nothing is going to come from that direction,
look anyway. Thats my point, you just dont know. You mention that it
scares you every time, well why dont you make more of an effort to stop
getting these scares? If I was constantly getting surprised by people
popping in my blind spot for example, I'd make an effort to check it more
often...

Cheers Dre

[Leo Lichtman]

"Luigi de Guzman" wrote: (clip) a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the
sidewalk, enters the
> intersection. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is no *right* way to ride a bike on a sidewalk. We know that it is
done, and most of us do it under some circumstances. Since a cyclist on the
sidewalk is breaking the rules, he/she has the burden of not interfering
with either pedestrians or traffic on the street. You know that some don't
practice good etiquette or judgment, so they are part of the general field
of hazards we have to look out for. Along with kids chasing balls, drunks,
people on cell phones and animals.

[[email protected]]

Wrong Way Jose is what wecall them here!!!


On Oct 28, 9:39*pm, Luigi de Guzman > wrote:
> OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post. *
>
> I haven't ridden my bike in ages. *My commute isn't cyclable, and my
> schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
> more. *This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
> about.
>
> That would--and does-- make me happy. *I envy the guy who can ride to
> work/school every day.
>
> But please, guys, stay safe out there. *I have nearly broadsided two
> cyclists in the past two weeks. *Same situation: *I'm waiting to turn
> right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. *Since it's a divided
> highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
> in oncoming traffic.
>
> Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
> intersection. *I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
> since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.
>
> Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
> the roadway. *But it gives me a scare every time.
>
> Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. *You feel safer,
> because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> would be a much worse fate.
>
> Be careful out there.

[Marz]

On Oct 28, 8:39 pm, Luigi de Guzman > wrote:
> OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post.
>
> I haven't ridden my bike in ages. My commute isn't cyclable, and my
> schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
> more. This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
> about.
>
> That would--and does-- make me happy. I envy the guy who can ride to
> work/school every day.
>
> But please, guys, stay safe out there. I have nearly broadsided two
> cyclists in the past two weeks. Same situation: I'm waiting to turn
> right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. Since it's a divided
> highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
> in oncoming traffic.
>
> Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
> intersection. I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
> since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.
>
> Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
> the roadway. But it gives me a scare every time.
>
> Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. You feel safer,
> because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> would be a much worse fate.
>
> Be careful out there.

While I don't think cyclists should be on the sidewalk at all, it
still sounds like you need to be checking in both directions before
moving off.

[bluezfolk]

On Oct 29, 6:55*am, Marz > wrote:
> On Oct 28, 8:39 pm, Luigi de Guzman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post.
>
> > I haven't ridden my bike in ages. *My commute isn't cyclable, and my
> > schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
> > more. *This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
> > about.
>
> > That would--and does-- make me happy. *I envy the guy who can ride to
> > work/school every day.
>
> > But please, guys, stay safe out there. *I have nearly broadsided two
> > cyclists in the past two weeks. *Same situation: *I'm waiting to turn
> > right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. *Since it's a divided
> > highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
> > in oncoming traffic.
>
> > Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
> > intersection. *I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
> > since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.
>
> > Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
> > the roadway. *But it gives me a scare every time.
>
> > Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. *You feel safer,
> > because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> > you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> > would be a much worse fate.
>
> > Be careful out there.
>
> While I don't think cyclists should be on the sidewalk at all, it
> still sounds like you need to be checking in both directions before
> moving off.

I wasn't aware of a right direction to go on the sidewalk, in my area
sidewalks are not marked as one-way. Bicycles are vehicles and don't
belong on the sidewalk in the first place. If one can't see bicycles
on the sidewalk, how then could one possibly expect to see the
pedestrians on the same sidewalk?

Eric

[Chip C]

On Oct 29, 7:55 am, Marz > wrote:
> On Oct 28, 8:39 pm, Luigi de Guzman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > OK, not really a cycling post, more a driving post.
>
> > I haven't ridden my bike in ages. My commute isn't cyclable, and my
> > schedule sometimes doesn't jive with the Metro, so I've been driving
> > more. This has coincided with my seeing more and more cyclists out and
> > about.
>
> > That would--and does-- make me happy. I envy the guy who can ride to
> > work/school every day.
>
> > But please, guys, stay safe out there. I have nearly broadsided two
> > cyclists in the past two weeks. Same situation: I'm waiting to turn
> > right onto a busy multi-lane divided highway. Since it's a divided
> > highway, I look to the <em>left</em> the whole time, waiting for a break
> > in oncoming traffic.
>
> > Meanwhile, a cyclist, riding the wrong way on the sidewalk, enters the
> > intersection. I dont' see him, since he's coming the wrong way--and
> > since he's in the sidewalk, he's not even in my field of vision.
>
> > Thankfully, I've been able to see the cyclist coming before I ease into
> > the roadway. But it gives me a scare every time.
>
> > Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. You feel safer,
> > because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> > you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> > would be a much worse fate.
>
> > Be careful out there.
>
> While I don't think cyclists should be on the sidewalk at all, it
> still sounds like you need to be checking in both directions before
> moving off.

Yes, the OP should be checking quickly to the right immediately before
proceeding, or better, back and forth frequently to maintain a
constant situational awareness. A jogger, skateboarder or rollerblader
could be coming along the sidewalk from either direction as fast a a
bike. And, for all we know, some of the "sidewalks" that he's talking
about could be recreational paths that permits bikes too, and rather a
lot of municipalities endorse cycling on sidewalks in some
circumstances, as much as that grates on my own sensibilities.

Someone who gets a scare every time they make a right turn is doing
something wrong -- possibly including their choice of route. There are
many intersections that I bike *or drive* out of my way to avoid,
owing to their bad design or poor scaling to high traffic volumes. So
go up a block or two, or 10, to where you can enter the expressway at
lights.

Chip C
Toronto

[Johnny Borborigmi]

On Oct 28, 9:39*pm, Luigi de Guzman > wrote:

> Please, guys, do NOT ride wrong-way on the sidewalk. *You feel safer,
> because you think you won't get clipped from behind--but in the end,
> you're DRAMATICALLY increasing the chances of being broadsided, which
> would be a much worse fate.
>
> Be careful out there.


DON'T RIDE ON SIDEWALKS AT ALL.


Yesterday some numbnuts was riding on the opposite side of the road
and I nearly didn't see him with my car.
Luckily for him I ride a bike too so I was on the look out.

That guy will get hit eventually and it WILL be his own fault....

[Bob]

On Oct 28, 9:09*pm, "Dre" > wrote:
>
> So how is this different to a pedestrian walking the opposite way to the
> traffic flow on the footpath??

Average walking speed is in the neighborhood of 3 to 4 miles per hour
so a pedestrian will travel roughly 5.5 ft in one second. Even at a
measly 12 mph a cyclist will cover roughly 17.5 feet in that same
second. Even if he scans back and forth almost constantly, a cyclist
moping along at 12 mph can easily travel 35 feet and "sneak up" on
Luigi as he looks left.

>
> Dont you look both ways just before you start to take off?
>

He obviously does because he's avoided striking the wrong way riders.

> Just because the traffic doesn't flow in that direction doesn't mean that
> you dont need to look there. *You enter the intersection if it is safe to do
> so, and that means both ways IMO.
>
> The fact that it gives you a scare every time should tell you something....
>

It tells me he's human and capable of being startled.

Regards,
Bob Hunt