3-speed fixed (bike) hub

[saskatchewanian]

Hey guys, just stumbled across this and thought you would be intrested.
From 'www.cyclingnews.com' (http://tinyurl.com/4la9hc)



> Sturmey sets date for three-speed fixie – but will it be alone?
>
> Sturmey Archer's S3X fixed-wheel three-speed hub will be available in
> January, Sturmey's US marketing manager told BikeRadar at Interbike
> today. Retail price for the hub is expected to be in the US$140-160
> range.
>
> The S3X will probably come with a multi-location shifter that can be
> used as a bar end or mounted on the down tube. Unfortunately, said
> Prosser, it's not possible to make it work with current brake/shift
> levers, so drop-in compatibility with, say, Shimano STI units, won't
> happen.
>
> Prosser said that the final production version of the hub will be
> lighter than the current prototype. It's hard to see where you save
> weight in a hub gear as there's an unavoidable amount of metal needed in
> the internals, and it's not like possible buyers of a three-speed fixie
> hub can go buy someone else's lighter alternative.
>
> Or can they? We haven't seen it yet, but SRAM apparently has a hub that
> can be switched between fixed-wheel and freewheel operation and is
> rumoured to be working on its own three-speed fixed hub.
>
> Prosser explained some of the background to the S3X project, which was
> basically by a steady stream of inquiries to Sturmey from various places
> around the ‘net (including, this writer, who stopped bothering Prosser
> about it when he told me that to resurrect the old ASC hub, Sturmey
> would need an order of 10,000 units.)
>
> Various people, including the late great Sheldon Brown, helped gauge
> the level of interest, and Prosser hinted that if the S3X is successful,
> then Sturmey will consider widening the range with, for example, a
> closer-ratio version akin to the original ASC.



We are that much closer to a multi-geared uni hub :)


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[SHAY_CAM]

They have been making internally geared hubs for many years. Is this a
special super cool one?


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[colin340]

YES this is huge theres no free wheel so it would work in unicycle
unlike the other hubs that that would just free wheel


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[john_childs]

colin340;1125062 wrote:
> YES this is huge theres no free wheel so it would work in unicycle
> unlike the other hubs that that would just free wheel



I am almost absolutely certain that it would not be strong enough for
any sort of unicycle use. Unicycling puts a huge amount of torque on
the hub. Bicycles have a gear ratio that lessens the torque and the
physics of bicycle riding doesn't put as much torque on the hub.

I am excited about this development for my fixie bike. Seattle has
some hills that can make fixie riding a challenge. Even just having a
two speed shifting fixie would be nice. Just something to have a lower
gear when you get to a steep hill. The three speed fixie hub is just
extra.

It will be interesting to see what the specs are and what they specify
as allowable chainring size sproket size ratios.


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[saskatchewanian]

Did a bit of quick searching cause I couldn't sleep and found that it
has two underdrive gears and a 1:1 mode.

I was hoping that the design could be possibly built as a unicycle hub
(with stronger parts) but we really arn't looking for an underdrive hub.

You could set up a sort of jack shaft design with this hub sitting
above your wheel to give you a 3-speed unicycle that you shift by hand
instead of kicking the hub. The long chains would not be so elegant as
having a true geared hub but it would definitely be doable.

I think I will file this away in the things to build when I have time
and money to spare pile along with the 'GUWI'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67196) I designed. I
can picture it now, I could even do it without modifying the hub at all.

As far as bikes go I don't have a fixie yet but I know one is in my
future. Probably with a flip-flop though. maybe with some dingle
gearing, don't know what is all possible yet.


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[Joseppi]

3 speed? Fixie? This makes no sense!

If it's 3 speeds, I don't think I'd call it a fixie, coasting or not.


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[saskatchewanian]

sure it's a fixie, just not a single speed.


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[Joseppi]

I wonder if this hub can handle the stresses of skidding.


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[nickjb]

Somebody built an ASC into a giraffe and took it to unicon in Guilford.
IIRC it had lot of play when you changed gear.


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[rob.northcott]

Sturmey ASC hubs, or 3- or 4-speeds modified to be fixed 2- or 3-speeds
have quite a bit of slop/backlash in the gears - enough that a lot of
fixed wheel bike enthusiasts say it takes away the feel of riding fixed.
It would be a lot baggier than a Schlumpf uni hub.

@John: You could build a two-speed fixed wheel bike using a normal
fixed hub and a Schlumpf Speed Drive/Mountain Drive bottom bracket.
Probably quite heavy, but possibly no heavier than a Sturmey hub, and
better weight distribution. (Or modify a normal Sturmey 3- or 4-speed
hub (quite fiddly apparently) - or pay silly money for an original
ASC!)

Rob


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[colin340]

john_childs;1125087 wrote:
> I am almost absolutely certain that it would not be strong enough for
> any sort of unicycle use. Unicycling puts a huge amount of torque on
> the hub. Bicycles have a gear ratio that lessens the torque and the
> physics of bicycle riding doesn't put as much torque on the hub.
>
> I am excited about this development for my fixie bike. Seattle has
> some hills that can make fixie riding a challenge. Even just having a
> two speed shifting fixie would be nice. Just something to have a lower
> gear when you get to a steep hill. The three speed fixie hub is just
> extra.
>
> It will be interesting to see what the specs are and what they specify
> as allowable chainring size sproket size ratios.




dang i complicity forgot about that


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[mscalisi]

Fixie only implies that it doesn't freewheel. The term is primarily
associated with single-speeds since there aren't any multi-speed fixed
hubs currently on the market, and the one's that exist are very rare.

Combine this with a symmetrical schlumpf bottom bracket (when they come
out) and you have a 6-speed fixie!

Sombody's got to penguin this thing up on a 29er with a big chainring!


Joseppi;1125093 wrote:
> 3 speed? Fixie? This makes no sense!
>
> If it's 3 speeds, I don't think I'd call it a fixie, coasting or not.


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[mscalisi]

It may not be a new idea, but just try and find one of those ASC hubs!


saskatchewanian;1125096 wrote:
> sure it's a fixie, just not a single speed.
>
> Edit: 'Not as new of an idea as I thought.'
> (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/asc.html)


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[mscalisi]

Why do you say that? It seems that for a given wheel size, at the same
speed, there would be the exact same amount of torque for a unicycle as
a bicycle. With a bike, the chainring amplifies the torque so that the
rear cog sees the same amount as it would with a unicyclist powering it
directly.


john_childs;1125087 wrote:
> I am almost absolutely certain that it would not be strong enough for
> any sort of unicycle use. Unicycling puts a huge amount of torque on
> the hub. Bicycles have a gear ratio that lessens the torque and the
> physics of bicycle riding doesn't put as much torque on the hub.
>
> I am excited about this development for my fixie bike. Seattle has
> some hills that can make fixie riding a challenge. Even just having a
> two speed shifting fixie would be nice. Just something to have a lower
> gear when you get to a steep hill. The three speed fixie hub is just
> extra.
>
> It will be interesting to see what the specs are and what they specify
> as allowable chainring size sproket size ratios.


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[1-wheeled-grape]

I have a free wheeling hub like that, I battered it out of a bike with a
hammer and a brick :D
I was going to take it apart and play around with it too see how it
worked and design my own hub.


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[harper]

mscalisi;1125325 wrote:
> Why do you say that? It seems that for a given wheel size, at the same
> speed, there would be the exact same amount of torque for a unicycle as
> a bicycle. With a bike, the chainring amplifies the torque so that the
> rear cog sees the same amount as it would with a unicyclist powering it
> directly.



There is a lot of rapidly changing, high-magnitude torque applied in
unicycling to maintain balance in the direction of travel.


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[Klaas Bil]

harper;1125404 wrote:
> There is a lot of rapidly changing, high-magnitude torque applied in
> unicycling to maintain balance in the direction of travel.

In addition, the usual bike set-up with a bigger chainring at the front
and a smaller sprocket at the rear, decreases the amount of torque that
a rider can exert on the thing, as compared to a direct drive when the
cranks are directly on the hub as we have on most unicycles. John Childs
hit the hammer on the nail (or so) when he wrote "It will be interesting
to see (what the specs are and) what they specify as allowable chainring
size sproket size ratios."


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[harper]

Klaas Bil;1125439 wrote:
> John Childs hit the hammer on the nail...



Our colloquial expression is, "hit the nail on the head."


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[tomblackwood]

harper;1125508 wrote:
> Our colloquial expression is, "hit the nail on the head."



I thought it was "Nail, baby, Nail"...


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[mtnjeffe]

The difference is that the torque on a bike is applied to the hub
rotating around a fixed trough axle which is only required to hold the
wheel in place. A unicycle places all of the torque on the axle
requiring it to be significantly larger and stronger.


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[SHAY_CAM]

Klaas Bil;1125439 wrote:
> In addition, the usual bike set-up with a bigger chainring at the front
> and a smaller sprocket at the rear, decreases the amount of torque that
> a rider can exert on the thing, as compared to a direct drive when the
> cranks are directly on the hub as we have on most unicycles. John Childs
> hit the hammer on the nail (or so) when he wrote "It will be interesting
> to see (what the specs are and) what they specify as allowable chainring
> size sproket size ratios."



Its chainwheel and cog. For future reference :)


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[SHAY_CAM]

And did you guys know switching the cog and the chainwheel around(small
in front and big in back) Creates a unique 5:1 ratio. Super easy to
pedal, but you go super fast, they call those fixie bikes.


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[kington99]

SHAY_CAM;1126039 wrote:
> And did you guys know switching the cog and the chainwheel around(small
> in front and big in back) Creates a unique 5:1 ratio. Super easy to
> pedal, but you go super fast, they call those fixie bikes.



a ratio that way round would be easy to pedal, but extremley slow,
infact 25 times slower than the other way round.

And a fixie refers to a hub with no freewheel or ratchet, the gearing
has nothing to do with it.

And you can't just swap gears front and back, the interfaces are
different.

And chainring and sproket are perfectly acceptable words for the
equipment we're discussing here.


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[OneWheelLess]

SHAY_CAM;1126039 wrote:
> And did you guys know switching the cog and the chainwheel around(small
> in front and big in back) Creates a unique 5:1 ratio. Super easy to
> pedal, but you go super fast, they call those fixie bikes.


Wtf??!
Were you joking????


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[john_childs]

SHAY_CAM;1126037 wrote:
> Its chainwheel and cog. For future reference :)



Cog and sprocket are synonymous and typically refer to the rear gear.

Chainwheel and chainring are mostly synonymous. Chainwheels for the
plate style rings that BMX bikes typically use. Chainring for the more
ringlike rings that road bikes typically use.

You can doublecheck the definitions and terms at 'sheldonbrown.com'
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/).


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[john_childs]

The 2009 Schlumpf Speed Drive has a new clutch design that can be used
with a fixie bike. I don't see info about the new designs on the
Schlumpf web site yet. There is a brief mention at Velovision:
'Schlumpf's new drives' (http://tinyurl.com/6zeemp)

Neat stuff. I'm going to have to start thinking about a multi-speed
fixie. :)


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