A March on Washington... on Bicycle?

[KingOfTheApes]

Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
the victim of discrimination and abuse.

I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
alternative vehicles.

I'm leaving from Miami, and you?

(Riders from the UK are excused for not attending) ;)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(home of the Dutch model!)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by BarracksSi
'I guess part of the point I'm trying to make is that nobody gets to
see moderate, "respectable" cycling advocacy. The most visible cycling
protests are the CM mobs (all we see is when they get beat up by cops
or beat up drivers in front of their kids) and the World Naked Bike
Rides.

I'd put money on this kind of stunt ending up the same way. If it
doesn't, and I see a thousand average people on the Mall instead of a
bunch of loonies with body paint, it might actually be taken
seriously.'

***

No, this is serious stuff. The wild monkeys must be well behaved to
look like "we the People."

I think it's possible.

[ComandanteBanana]

(notice the revolution is for nonviolent monkeys)

Originally Posted by BarracksSi

Simply "being televised" doesn't help.

It's the perception of what gets televised that's the important part.

Think about it -- what would you do in front of a TV camera that
would, say, make your girlfriend's parents proud?

A bunch of people screwing around in front of a national audience
isn't going to do cycling any favors. Even if it's "only a few bad
apples messing it up for everyone", what matters is what kind of
behavior actually makes it onto a news clip.

The problem you'd encounter is that the louder, more obnoxious
hooligans will draw more attention. That's just the way it is.

Now, what are you going to do to control the group's image? Remember,
not only would there be some TV crews tagging along now and then, but
also scores of people outside the media armed with cell phone cameras
and the ability to publish to Youtube even before they return home.

You're going to have to exercise very tight image control, with
prepared statements, guidelines for riding behavior, designated
representatives, and possibly even the active exclusion & expulsion of
troublemakers. And, you'll have to do this with a group big enough to
land a few inches' worth of article space in USA Today.

Think it can be done? Will you do it right, or not?

***


I'm well aware of your concerns. I witnessed such anarchic behavior in
the Free Trade Summit of the Americas in Miami, some years back. I was
nice and organized able to hand out my flyers, even to the police, and
the cop saying, "This in nice!" (he read the story below).

But the wild monkeys chose to clash with the police. You know what, I
think it was the same police. You must understand that the lion needs
the monkey to be stupid and violent...


THE LAW OF THE JUNGLE
Once upon a time, in the deep jungle, lived a Lion and a Monkey... One
day the Monkey, tired of the Lion always taking the LION'S SHARE, and
seeing that such injustice represented a danger to all, demanded
JUSTICE... The Lion, yawning and stretching, said, "You would have to
have paws and sharp teeth..." Then the Monkey, who was very clever,
devised a plan: He would go to the costume store, and look like a
lion...

When the HUNGRY LION saw him, noticing that the new lion wasn't a
match for him, and fearing COMPETITION, killed him on the spot --
before the indifferent look of the little animals of the jungle... And
that's how the Law of the Jungle was re-established one more time...
(NOTE: Other monkeys survived him...)

[ComandanteBanana]

(my answer below)


Originally Posted by BarracksSi

I should address this, too:

You may think so, but if you're going to lead it, you have to take
responsibility.

Too many of these things lack a leader -- a face that the public can
attach to the cause. You need someone who can speak to the likes of
Tom Brokaw and address the inevitable counterpoints from the guy on
the other side of the split screen during the interview. You need
someone that the entire group can rally behind and will respect.

The instant you say, "I can't be personally responsible for what every
crackpot does," it's finished. Kaput. That will be the phrase that
knocks you off the high wire. That's the picture of Dukakis wearing a
tank driver's helmet or Howard Dean's velociraptor-like screech.

*add-on again* A leader, someone just like M.L. King.

But, please, don't equate the incredible efforts of Dr. King with any
cycling advocate. I've never even heard of a cyclist getting hung from
a tree and set on fire.

***


Back at that time blacks were denied equal access to buses, the way we
are denied equal access to roads. Actually I rather live with being
segregated on a road and having BIKE LANES, than with being killed on
a road as a result of reckless drivers and indifferent authorities.

BIKE DISCRIMINATION IS A MATTER OF ECONOMICS, and the main
beneficiaries of safe bike lanes would be blacks and other minorities.

As for the leader... WHAT DO WE HAVE OBAMA FOR?

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
KingOfTheApes > writes:
> Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
> we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
> bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
> the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>
> I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
> escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
> technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
> democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
> deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
> alternative vehicles.

A while back you started a thread titled "I saw Critical Mass".
Here's a blast from your past:

In article >,
KingOfTheApes > writes:
> and didn't like what I saw.

What a hypocrite, talking through yer hat.

If you're going to run a disinformation campaign, you should
at least learn to cover your tracks. You're not only a
hypocrite, you're incompetent as well. Then again, that's
what I like about disinformationists -- they're so readily
identifiable. "By their fruits shall ye know them."

> I'm leaving from Miami, and you?

Keep heading east. Always, ever east.
Second star on the right, straight on 'til morning.

And by the way, there's lots of money with which to fund
transportation, booze, cigarettes, The War on Drugs,
the penal system, international affairs, Christmas &c.

There's not so much money with which to fund residential
construction, 'cuz developers/investors cut their noses off
to spite their faces by "dynamically" financing their
developments as they go along and build. Bottom falls out
of the real estate market, the bubble bursts, and now
there's much bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Boo-hoo.

Shove your disinformation where the moon don't shine.

I'm on you like **** on a blanket.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats[_18_]]

In article >,
"Edward Dolan" > writes:

> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times,

Speak for yourself.

> but we are not a poor
> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana.

Speak for yourself.

> Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
> condemned.

No, he is to definitely condemnable.

> Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us.

Yes, let us gird our loins with our wits.


cheers,
Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Keats" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> KingOfTheApes > writes:
>> Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
>> we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
>> bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
>> the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>>
>> I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
>> escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
>> technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
>> democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
>> deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
>> alternative vehicles.
>
> A while back you started a thread titled "I saw Critical Mass".
> Here's a blast from your past:
>
> In article
> >,
> KingOfTheApes > writes:
>> and didn't like what I saw.
>
> What a hypocrite, talking through yer hat.
>
> If you're going to run a disinformation campaign, you should
> at least learn to cover your tracks. You're not only a
> hypocrite, you're incompetent as well. Then again, that's
> what I like about disinformationists -- they're so readily
> identifiable. "By their fruits shall ye know them."
>
>> I'm leaving from Miami, and you?
>
> Keep heading east. Always, ever east.
> Second star on the right, straight on 'til morning.
>
> And by the way, there's lots of money with which to fund
> transportation, booze, cigarettes, The War on Drugs,
> the penal system, international affairs, Christmas &c.
>
> There's not so much money with which to fund residential
> construction, 'cuz developers/investors cut their noses off
> to spite their faces by "dynamically" financing their
> developments as they go along and build. Bottom falls out
> of the real estate market, the bubble bursts, and now
> there's much bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.
>
> Boo-hoo.
>
> Shove your disinformation where the moon don't shine.
>
> I'm on you like **** on a blanket.

Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times, but we are not a poor
crazy loon like ComandanteBanana. Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
condemned. Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us. To end up
like ComandanteBanana has got to be the worst of all possible worlds.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Keats" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Edward Dolan" > writes:
>
>> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times,
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
>> but we are not a poor
>> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana.
>
> Speak for yourself.
>
>> Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
>> condemned.
>
> No, he is to definitely condemnable.
>
>> Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us.
>
> Yes, let us gird our loins with our wits.

Tom Keats is a Canadian, but I won't hold it against him unless he brings it
up. There is nothing wrong with being a poor cousin to Americans.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
"Edward Dolan" > writes:
>
> "Tom Keats" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Edward Dolan" > writes:
>>
>>> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times,
>>
>> Speak for yourself.
>>
>>> but we are not a poor
>>> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana.
>>
>> Speak for yourself.
>>
>>> Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
>>> condemned.
>>
>> No, he is to definitely condemnable.
>>
>>> Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us.
>>
>> Yes, let us gird our loins with our wits.
>
> Tom Keats is a Canadian, but I won't hold it against him unless he brings it
> up. There is nothing wrong with being a poor cousin to Americans.

Our banking system is more resilient than yours.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Keats" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Edward Dolan" > writes:
[...]
>> Tom Keats is a Canadian, but I won't hold it against him unless he brings
>> it
>> up. There is nothing wrong with being a poor cousin to Americans.
>
> Our banking system is more resilient than yours.

Jeez, the US sneezes and the whole world comes down with pneumonia. Go
figure!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Red Cloud]

On Nov 5, 11:53 am, KingOfTheApes > wrote:
> Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
> we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
> bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
> the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>
> I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
> escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
> technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
> democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
> deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
> alternative vehicles.
>
> I'm leaving from Miami, and you?
>
> (Riders from the UK are excused for not attending) ;)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
> (home of the Dutch model!)
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

What a joke this is! Biker march on Washington? Gimme a break!
In tihs land of NASCR and Detroit all like cities, using bike as a
transport
is impossible. US of A hates bikes. can you see that? US of Americans
are not
ready for utilizing bike as the transportation. You wanna ride a bike
as transporation
you have to get out of this NASCAR addicted USA.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 8, 2:15*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> > Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
> > we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
> > bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
> > the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>
> > I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
> > escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
> > technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
> > democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
> > deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
> > alternative vehicles.
>
> A while back you started a thread titled "I saw Critical Mass".
> Here's a blast from your past:
>
> In article >,
> * * * * KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> > and didn't like what I saw.
>
> What a hypocrite, talking through yer hat.
>
> If you're going to run a disinformation campaign, you should
> at least learn to cover your tracks. *You're not only a
> hypocrite, you're incompetent as well. *Then again, that's
> what I like about disinformationists -- they're so readily
> identifiable. *"By their fruits shall ye know them."

First of all, thanks for keeping this thread alive...

Now, are you stupid or what? What does my criticism of Critical Mass
has to do with this march. I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild
monkeys blocking traffic. Live and let live, comprende? Bicycles and
cars can coexist, provided we have a lane all to ourselves or we tame
traffic.


>
> > I'm leaving from Miami, and you?
>
> Keep heading east. *Always, ever east.
> Second star on the right, straight on 'til morning.
>
> And by the way, there's lots of money with which to fund
> transportation, booze, cigarettes, The War on Drugs,
> the penal system, international affairs, Christmas &c.
>
> There's not so much money with which to fund residential
> construction, 'cuz developers/investors cut their noses off
> to spite their faces by "dynamically" financing their
> developments as they go along and build. *Bottom falls out
> of the real estate market, the bubble bursts, and now
> there's much bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.
>
> Boo-hoo.
>
> Shove your disinformation where the moon don't shine.
>
> I'm on you like **** on a blanket.
>

Not really, you just look ridiculous. As you say, money is being spent
elsewhere but on bike facilities.

Your opposition is really helpful. ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 8, 3:25*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Keats" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > KingOfTheApes > writes:
> >> Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
> >> we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
> >> bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
> >> the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>
> >> I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
> >> escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
> >> technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
> >> democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
> >> deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
> >> alternative vehicles.
>
> > A while back you started a thread titled "I saw Critical Mass".
> > Here's a blast from your past:
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > * * * *KingOfTheApes > writes:
> >> and didn't like what I saw.
>
> > What a hypocrite, talking through yer hat.
>
> > If you're going to run a disinformation campaign, you should
> > at least learn to cover your tracks. *You're not only a
> > hypocrite, you're incompetent as well. *Then again, that's
> > what I like about disinformationists -- they're so readily
> > identifiable. *"By their fruits shall ye know them."
>
> >> I'm leaving from Miami, and you?
>
> > Keep heading east. *Always, ever east.
> > Second star on the right, straight on 'til morning.
>
> > And by the way, there's lots of money with which to fund
> > transportation, booze, cigarettes, The War on Drugs,
> > the penal system, international affairs, Christmas &c.
>
> > There's not so much money with which to fund residential
> > construction, 'cuz developers/investors cut their noses off
> > to spite their faces by "dynamically" financing their
> > developments as they go along and build. *Bottom falls out
> > of the real estate market, the bubble bursts, and now
> > there's much bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.
>
> > Boo-hoo.
>
> > Shove your disinformation where the moon don't shine.
>
> > I'm on you like **** on a blanket.
>
> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times, but we are not a poor
> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana. Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
> condemned. *Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us. To end up
> like ComandanteBanana has got to be the worst of all possible worlds.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dr. Evil, you are just another patient of the nursing home, with
nothing to offer humanity but hate and war.

If I were you, I'd consider the Kevorkian machine.

[KingOfTheApes]

(Hey, Dr. Evil, don't commit suicide until you read this)

Originally Posted by BarracksSi
"He's complaining that there isn't a bike-only route from Miami to DC
in another thread in P&R. I can't think of anything like that that
covers a similarly huge distance elsewhere.

Where I've been outside the US, the most bike-friendly cities have had
separate lanes & routes for bikes."


Not only I contend that there's no route from Miami to Washington DC,
but not even to Ft. Lauderdale through US1. That's right, when you get
to the Ft. Lauderdale airport area, there's something of an expressway
with little room for a bike among the cars going over 55mph. I haven't
seen anyone biking it for that matter.

So even Miami and Ft. Lauderdale are NOT connected by bike or bus. I'm
sure most European cities would be connected at least by buses. Of
course, both bikes and buses are part of the revolution.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 8, 4:25*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Keats" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > In article >,
> > "Edward Dolan" > writes:
> [...]
> >> Tom Keats is a Canadian, but I won't hold it against him unless he brings
> >> it
> >> up. There is nothing wrong with being a poor cousin to Americans.
>
> > Our banking system is more resilient than yours.
>
> Jeez, the US sneezes and the whole world comes down with pneumonia. Go
> figure!

Sure, America eats up the lion's share of the world resources...

But I don't think it's pneumonia. Perhaps cancer. ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

Doug wrote:
'I’m all for living within your means, but your ability to make and
keep a budget depends on having an idea of what your electricity is
going to cost from month to month, and what the groceries and gas
prices will be. The current crisis involved many people who were
living within their means, who saw gas prices skyrocket and utility
bills go through the roof. They were no longer able to pay their
mortgages, and running off and joining the military isn’t always an
option. Say they sell the house to live more cheaply, and get an
apartment. Apartment rents are also soaring because everyone else is
doing the same thing. I personally can’t downsize any more than I
already have. I don’t even have cable TV.

It was this “let them eat cake” philosophy that started the French
revolution.'

***

And there’s no better way to downsize but to ride a bike… and yet you
can’t.

I guess that’s a good reason for the Banana Revolution, right?

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 8, 3:25*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Keats" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > KingOfTheApes > writes:
> >> Well, since the revolution will not be motorized, it makes sense that
> >> we go to Washington on Inauguration Day not on cars or buses, but on
> >> bikes. And like the minority president that we inaugurate, we are also
> >> the victim of discrimination and abuse.
>
> >> I think we can ride the winds of change, making sure that we don't
> >> escape the Democratic Party radars that seems to focus on "alternative
> >> technologies," and yet fail to detect the most basic, cheap, and
> >> democratic vehicle ever created. It even makes sense in light of the
> >> deep economic crisis since there's "no dinero" ($$$) to fund such
> >> alternative vehicles.
>
> > A while back you started a thread titled "I saw Critical Mass".
> > Here's a blast from your past:
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > * * * *KingOfTheApes > writes:
> >> and didn't like what I saw.
>
> > What a hypocrite, talking through yer hat.
>
> > If you're going to run a disinformation campaign, you should
> > at least learn to cover your tracks. *You're not only a
> > hypocrite, you're incompetent as well. *Then again, that's
> > what I like about disinformationists -- they're so readily
> > identifiable. *"By their fruits shall ye know them."
>
> >> I'm leaving from Miami, and you?
>
> > Keep heading east. *Always, ever east.
> > Second star on the right, straight on 'til morning.
>
> > And by the way, there's lots of money with which to fund
> > transportation, booze, cigarettes, The War on Drugs,
> > the penal system, international affairs, Christmas &c.
>
> > There's not so much money with which to fund residential
> > construction, 'cuz developers/investors cut their noses off
> > to spite their faces by "dynamically" financing their
> > developments as they go along and build. *Bottom falls out
> > of the real estate market, the bubble bursts, and now
> > there's much bitter wailing and gnashing of teeth.
>
> > Boo-hoo.
>
> > Shove your disinformation where the moon don't shine.
>
> > I'm on you like **** on a blanket.
>
> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times, but we are not a poor
> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana. Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
> condemned. *Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us. To end up
> like ComandanteBanana has got to be the worst of all possible worlds.
>

Sorry, old man, time to retire and leave something for humans not just
roaches...

"Obama won, the senior citizens lost"

Did you notice the old and mentally confused lost the elections and
the younger voted for CHANGE (Obama) by a margin of 2 to 1?

Change IS good. It’s what made humans out of monkeys.

“I’m fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to
die in.” -George McGovern

A REVOLUTION FOR THE YOUNG?
Sorry, guys, but this revolution is for the young --or at least for
the young at heart-- who care about the future, and about a quality of
life surrounding their needs.

Regrettably, they are not being enticed into politics. Important
issues like TRAFFIC SAFETY and BIKE FACILITIES are kept out of the
political discourse. Simply, cunning politicians lure the elderly, who
are easily duped with the politics of fear.* Remember the 2000
elections in Miami-Dade County. In other words: the Banana Republic
relies on the old and ignorant, while the Banana Revolution appeals to
the young and hopeful…

* fear of terrorism, communism, etc.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 8, 3:25*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:

Hey, sorrowful man, not all senior citizens are old…

Originally Posted by patentcad
“Hey, I’m not so friggin old.”

If you ride a bike, no matter how old you are, you’ll never be old.

But if you drool and speak about the need for war, you probably
are. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 8, 3:25 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
> Tom Keats and I are both a bit eccentric at times, but we are not a poor
> crazy loon like ComandanteBanana. Frankly, he is more to be pitied than
> condemned. Let us be thankful if we still have our wits about us. To end
> up
> like ComandanteBanana has got to be the worst of all possible worlds.
[...]

>> Did you notice the old and mentally confused lost the elections and
the younger voted for CHANGE (Obama) by a margin of 2 to 1?

>> Change IS good. It’s what made humans out of monkeys.

You god damn ****ing idiot - change is not necessarily good. How did you
ever get to be so stupid? Were you born that way or did you have to work at
it?

>> “I’m fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to
die in.” -George McGovern

Ah yes, McGovern - one of the biggest jackasses who has ever lived. Not hard
to figure why once you realize he was from South Dakota. The best thing that
ever happened to him was when his daughter died on the streets from a drug
overdose.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 8, 3:25 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>
> Hey, sorrowful man, not all senior citizens are old…

You god damn moron - I did not write the above.

> Originally Posted by patentcad
“Hey, I’m not so friggin old.”

> If you ride a bike, no matter how old you are, you’ll never be old.

> But if you drool and speak about the need for war, you probably
are. ;)

How about I war on your stupid head, you god damn freak of an asshole!

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 10, 7:51*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Nov 8, 3:25 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>
> > Hey, sorrowful man, not all senior citizens are old…
>
> You god damn moron - I did not write the above.
>
> > Originally Posted by patentcad
>
> “Hey, I’m not so friggin old.”
>
> > If you ride a bike, no matter how old you are, you’ll never be old.
> > But if you drool and speak about the need for war, you probably
>
> are. ;)
>
> How about I war on your stupid head, you god damn freak of an asshole!
>
> ****ing Regards,

Foul mouthed old men like voted for the old man.

You did, right? And you don't ride a bike either...

So long, babbling Dr. Evil.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
KingOfTheApes > writes:

> I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild
> monkeys blocking traffic.

And yet so many of your previous posts are calls
to cyclists to go ahead and "take the lane" just
to make some kind of statement. I can supply lots
of references to those posts of yours.

You have already demonstrated yourself to be a
two-faced hypocrite.

I hope your concept of "organized marches" doesn't
involve jackboots and goose-strutting. On the
other hand ... yeah, go ahead.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 9:15*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> > I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild
> > monkeys blocking traffic.
>
> And yet so many of your previous posts are calls
> to cyclists to go ahead and "take the lane" just
> to make some kind of statement. *I can supply lots
> of references to those posts of yours.
>
> You have already demonstrated yourself to be a
> two-faced hypocrite.
>
> I hope your concept of "organized marches" doesn't
> involve jackboots and goose-strutting. *On the
> other hand ... yeah, go ahead.
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> I'm really at:
> tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Taking the lane on a road is hardly blocking traffic if there's more
than one lane.

I think you have Alzheimer (link provided below) or ADD (attention
deficit disorder). I hope you don't vote, just I hope Dr. Evil doesn't
vote...

(he would be good in this competition)

Originally Posted by Scooper
"Well, we could give all voters (regardless of age) a cognitive
deficit test, and those with failing grades would be disqualified to
vote. Candidates would also be required to take and pass the same test
as a pre-requisite for getting on the ballot (I'm guessing McCain
would have failed)."


I would put the American elders to fight the Iraqi elders until they
figure out who's best.

They would compete in age categories, namely: 65-75, 75-85 and above
85, where the weapon of choice is one spitting at the other.

http://www.alzheimer.ca/english/index.php

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 9:15*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:

> I hope your concept of "organized marches" doesn't
> involve jackboots and goose-strutting. *On the
> other hand ... yeah, go ahead.
>
> --

Hey, you don't have any sort of order on Canadian roads either, right?
What don't you make up your mind and decide to be American or
European? ;)

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor
"speed isn’t as dangerous as poor driving habits are. The autobahn
functions quite well because of a hyper organized and obedient system
of right lane slow left lane fast.

people here have no idea what that means. We are a nation of left lane
campers.

sometimes people may be in a rush/emergency. EVERYONE should be able
to move over for an emergency vehicle...however this never happens
since people just sit and hang out in the left lane right
lane...wherever they please."

Funny, Germany makes room for both the very fast (autobahn) and the
very slow (extensive bike lanes). Isn’t that the whole point of
DEMOCRACY, to accomodate the fast and the furious?*

*I’m just furious about the lack of bike facilities.

[GeneralissimoApeshit]

> I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild monkeys blocking traffic.

You speak OF organized marches. You do not speak on behalf any
anyone, you are neither a king nor a comandante, just a lunatic.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 1:10*pm, GeneralissimoApe****
> wrote:
> > I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild monkeys blocking traffic.
>
> You speak OF organized marches. *You do not speak on behalf any
> anyone, you are neither a king nor a comandante, just a lunatic.

And WHO are you, Generalissimo Franco?

I bet you even like Fascist ideas. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 10, 7:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
> How about I war on your stupid head, you god damn freak of an asshole!
>
> ****ing Regards,

>> Foul mouthed old men like voted for the old man.

>> You did, right? And you don't ride a bike either...

>> So long, babbling Dr. Evil.

You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say
on Earth. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with instructions
from your ex-CO. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would
rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm
deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a
weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a
revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.

You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 1:10 pm, GeneralissimoApe****
> wrote:
> > I speak for ORGANIZED MARCHS, not for wild monkeys blocking traffic.
>
> You speak OF organized marches. You do not speak on behalf any
> anyone, you are neither a king nor a comandante, just a lunatic.

>> And WHO are you, Generalissimo Franco?

>> I bet you even like Fascist ideas. ;)

ComandanteBanana needs to go **** himself. He is a worthless piece of ****
who has diarrhea of the mouth. In other words, he is your typical liberal
asshole. Let us hope that a Florida driver runs right over his stupid ass
and puts him out of his misery. It will be good riddance to bad rubbish.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Bill Sornson[_3_]]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As
> we say on Earth. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with
> instructions from your ex-CO. You are a canker. A sore that won't go
> away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.
>
> You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
> worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk,
> a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a
> stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
>
> You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
> richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
> into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
> abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
> then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.
>
> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Compliments of "Shaun 'Are'", formerly of AM-B:

"Whassamatter with ya, got rice paper skin and an inferiority complex or
something? ****, child, if you're not the wimpiest runt of whelps then the
sun has never lit up a day.

Bet those coloured plastic balls at the bottom of that little slide really
hurt, eh?

The last time I came across anything as sensitive as you, it was measuring
single ****ing photons.

Now, go grow a dick so you can go **** yourself, ****ybotty****tychops.
-- Shaun aRe, AM-B 11/05"

[Edward Dolan]

"Bill Sornson" > wrote in message
...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As
>> we say on Earth. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with
>> instructions from your ex-CO. You are a canker. A sore that won't go
>> away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.
>>
>> You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
>> worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk,
>> a cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a
>> stench, a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
>>
>> You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
>> richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
>> into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
>> abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
>> then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.
>>
>> ****ing Regards,
>
> Compliments of "Shaun 'Are'", formerly of AM-B:
>
> "Whassamatter with ya, got rice paper skin and an inferiority complex or
> something? ****, child, if you're not the wimpiest runt of whelps then the
> sun has never lit up a day.
>
> Bet those coloured plastic balls at the bottom of that little slide really
> hurt, eh?
>
> The last time I came across anything as sensitive as you, it was measuring
> single ****ing photons.
>
> Now, go grow a dick so you can go **** yourself, ****ybotty****tychops.
> -- Shaun aRe, AM-B 11/05"

Nope, not nasty enough for me. Either go all the way or forget about it.
Pulling your punches is a waste of effort on these cycling newsgroups.
You've got to plumb the depths which only I know how to do.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[GeneralissimoApeshit]

> And WHO are you, Generalissimo Franco?
>
> I bet you even like Fascist ideas. ;)

Look, idiot, YOU'RE the one who can't handle riders taking to the road
as traffic, during Critical Mass. That makes you the fascist.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 5:45*pm, GeneralissimoApe****
> wrote:
> > And WHO are you, Generalissimo Franco?
>
> > I bet you even like Fascist ideas. ;)
>
> Look, idiot, YOU'RE the one who can't handle riders taking to the road
> as traffic, during Critical Mass. *That makes you the fascist.

That's because they do in a disorganized way, which in the end helps
the public catalog them as troublemakers, a label applied to all
cyclists. Now you understand, Big ****?

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 3:17*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 10, 7:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> [...]
>
> > How about I war on your stupid head, you god damn freak of an asshole!
>
> > ****ing Regards,
> >> Foul mouthed old men like voted for the old man.
> >> You did, right? And you don't ride a bike either...
> >> So long, babbling Dr. Evil.
>
> You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say
> on Earth. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with instructions
> from your ex-CO. *You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would
> rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.
>
> You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm
> deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a
> weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a
> revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
>
> You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
> richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
> into this world. *An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
> abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
> then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.
>
> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Dr. Evil, you should be gagged and put in a straight jacket. Then put
in a museum of shame, where all those who supported the war should be
displayed. Of course, you should also be issued a pamper. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 3:17 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 10, 7:51 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> [...]
>
> > How about I war on your stupid head, you god damn freak of an asshole!
>
> > ****ing Regards,
>
> >> Foul mouthed old men like voted for the old man.
> >> You did, right? And you don't ride a bike either...
> >> So long, babbling Dr. Evil.
>
> You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say
> on Earth. I'll bet you couldn't pour **** out of a boot with instructions
> from your ex-CO. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would
> rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you.
>
> You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm
> deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, a
> weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a
> revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon.
>
> You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared
> richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth
> into this world. An insensate, blinking calf, meaningful to nobody,
> abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and
> then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done.

>>>> Dr. Evil, you should be gagged and put in a straight jacket. Then put
in a museum of shame, where all those who supported the war should be
displayed. Of course, you should also be issued a pamper. ;)

And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements
of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you
hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more
weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle,
waiting for the bite of the snake?

You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and
obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living
emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease,
you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper.

On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient
in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are
dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all
unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 11, 8:17*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:

> And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements
> of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? * What fantasy do you
> hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more
> weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle,
> waiting for the bite of the snake?

I'm glad you've accepted the jungle and its inhabitants to describe
the world around you. Yes, we live in a jungle, and you are one of
those hyenas that defend the lion. You saw Lion King?

http://www.evcil.us/Çizimler/slides/The%20lion%20king%20hyena.jpg

[KingOfTheApes]

(OK, now that the hyenas and the lion are a thing of the past --or so
we hope-- let's see how we can help Obama)

HOW WOULD YOU HELP OBAMA?

You know he's all about CHANGE (or so he said in his campaign),
leading the country to energy self-sufficiency sometime in the near
future. So how would you help him reach that goal?

He never mention the word "bicycle" in his political speeches (that I
know of), but I'm assuming that would be priority #1 under an
Administration that is both SMART and BROKE. Yes, its budget is
limited, so we better start helping him from the base, meaning our
rusted bikes must be put to use. We just ask him for some moral
support if not bike lanes.

Well, if you are a couch potato, you can still put some energy-
efficient lights since it would be too much to ask of you to junk your
SUVs... ;)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you ever thought of the lion as a big pussycat?

(Yes, the beast can be pacified!)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 11, 8:17 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:

> And what meaning do you expect your delusionally self-important statements
> of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you
> hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more
> weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle,
> waiting for the bite of the snake?

>> I'm glad you've accepted the jungle and its inhabitants to describe
the world around you. Yes, we live in a jungle, and you are one of
those hyenas that defend the lion. You saw Lion King?

You're an idiot. A moron of the highest order. You're so stupid it's a
wonder you can remember to breath. Intelligent ideas bounce off your head as
if it were coated with teflon. Creative thoughts take alternate
transportation in order to avoid even being in the same state as you. If you
had an original thought it would die of loneliness before the hour was out.
On an intelligence scale of 1 to 10 (10 corresponding to the highest
attainable IQ) you're rating is so far into negative numbers that one would
need to travel into another quantum reality in order to even catch a distant
glimpse of it.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
> (OK, now that the hyenas and the lion are a thing of the past --or so
> we hope-- let's see how we can help Obama)
>
> HOW WOULD YOU HELP OBAMA?
>
> You know he's all about CHANGE (or so he said in his campaign),
> leading the country to energy self-sufficiency sometime in the near
> future. So how would you help him reach that goal?
>
> He never mention the word "bicycle" in his political speeches (that I
> know of), but I'm assuming that would be priority #1 under an
> Administration that is both SMART and BROKE. Yes, its budget is
> limited, so we better start helping him from the base, meaning our
> rusted bikes must be put to use. We just ask him for some moral
> support if not bike lanes.
>
> Well, if you are a couch potato, you can still put some energy-
> efficient lights since it would be too much to ask of you to junk your
> SUVs... ;)

There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to
you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche.
To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest
parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend
to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 12, 8:23*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > (OK, now that the hyenas and the lion are a thing of the past --or so
> > we hope-- let's see how we can help Obama)
>
> > HOW WOULD YOU HELP OBAMA?
>
> > You know he's all about CHANGE (or so he said in his campaign),
> > leading the country to energy self-sufficiency sometime in the near
> > future. So how would you help him reach that goal?
>
> > He never mention the word "bicycle" in his political speeches (that I
> > know of), but I'm assuming that would be priority #1 under an
> > Administration that is both SMART and BROKE. Yes, its budget is
> > limited, so we better start helping him from the base, meaning our
> > rusted bikes must be put to use. We just ask him for some moral
> > support if not bike lanes.
>
> > Well, if you are a couch potato, you can still put some energy-
> > efficient lights since it would be too much to ask of you to junk your
> > SUVs... *;)
>
> There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to
> you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
> kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche.
> To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest
> parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend
> to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage.
>

I can see you really have a command over the worst adjectives even if
you are not able to say something cohesive, like a vision of the
world, other than one with dinosaurs and roaches. I guess a few hyenas
too. ;)

By the way, do you also agree with these dinosaurs (SUVs)?

Originally Posted by boneshake
"No, SUVS are the enemy."

And they help the enemy too...

I think we are under a new definition of patriotism: Under Bush it was
displayed as a bumper sticker that said, "We support our troops" on
your SUV. But under Obama, it's simply riding a bike.

[KingOfTheApes]

The ape and the hyena disagree in the perspective of the jungle. Of
course, hyenas are predators without a creative mind. Probably the
same difference as bicyclists and nonbicyclists.

Originally Posted by SingingSabre
"I'm holding my tongue...proverbially.

As to the topic at hand, most US residents don't see cyclocommuting as
a viable form of transportation. For Obama to mention it would have
probably hurt his cause, and ours. Grassroots work is the only way to
get that out...either that or get the car companies to endorse it, at
least as far as I can tell without racking my food-starved brain for
more creative ideas."


I don't see his endorsement would be bad for cycling since most
Republicans don't commute by bicycle anyway.

It would certainly lead to more ridership among the young and
minorities --his power base.

[KingOfTheApes]

OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
"Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
story...

Originally Posted by cujet
I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.

Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
acccident.

Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.

AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
it for me.

Chris

***

See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes. But since
you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?

Either God or the Revolution, right?

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 12, 8:23 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
> There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to
> you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
> kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche.
> To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest
> parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend
> to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage.

>> I can see you really have a command over the worst adjectives even if
you are not able to say something cohesive, like a vision of the
world, other than one with dinosaurs and roaches. I guess a few hyenas
too. ;)

You are a fraudulent, lying, predatory charlatan. You are worthless
compared to burnt-out light bulbs. Your will forever live in shame. You
have nothing to say, and Godwin's Law does not apply when writing
about you.
[...]

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
> The ape and the hyena disagree in the perspective of the jungle. Of
> course, hyenas are predators without a creative mind. Probably the
> same difference as bicyclists and nonbicyclists.
>
> Originally Posted by SingingSabre
> "I'm holding my tongue...proverbially.
>
> As to the topic at hand, most US residents don't see cyclocommuting as
> a viable form of transportation. For Obama to mention it would have
> probably hurt his cause, and ours. Grassroots work is the only way to
> get that out...either that or get the car companies to endorse it, at
> least as far as I can tell without racking my food-starved brain for
> more creative ideas."
>
>
> I don't see his endorsement would be bad for cycling since most
> Republicans don't commute by bicycle anyway.
>
> It would certainly lead to more ridership among the young and
> minorities --his power base.

You are an aberration, a corruption, a boil on the Net that needs to be
lanced. You are a poison we need to vomit. You are a tooth so rotten it
infects the whole body. You are sperm that should have been captured in a
condom and flushed down a toilet.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> story...
>
> Originally Posted by cujet
> I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
> case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> acccident.
>
> Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> it for me.
>
> Chris
>
> See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes. But since
> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> Either God or the Revolution, right?

Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to
empress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop
will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it
more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you
up,drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose
to
fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame
of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea
of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
KingOfTheApes > writes:
> OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> story...
>
> Originally Posted by cujet
> I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.

I see you're still trying to scare people away from riding.

> Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

They are, are they? Have /you/ looked at any real accident statistics
on bicycling? And who the heck is this "cujet" guy, and where did he
post the above?

> case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> acccident.

I wonder what "cujet" did, to fsck up so badly after only
15,000 miles.

> Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> it for me.
>
> Chris
>
> ***
>
> See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes.

I've met a number of folks with Republican leanings here in
r.b.m. I think they're mostly nice people, and I'm mostly an
apolitical, irreligious libertine. In fact, I think most people,
whether with Republican or Democrat, or Conservative or Liberal
leanings are roughly "centerists" with overlapping viewpoints,
maybe with some few contentious outlier opinions on certain
topics that haven't yet led to The End Of Days.

Republicans are not the enemy. Self-purported, self-styled
"revolutionaries" who want to upset the applecart are.
Of whom does that description remind you?

> But since
> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?

Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
"dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
pretty obvious, but you're still here.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 13, 8:46*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> > "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> > story...
>
> > Originally Posted by cujet
> > I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> > mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> > pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> > of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> > at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> > plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> > Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
> > case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> > acccident.
>
> > Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> > AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> > it for me.
>
> > Chris
>
> > See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> > enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes. But since
> > you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> > the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> > Either God or the Revolution, right?
>
> Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to
> empress us with your insight. *The evidence that you are a nincompoop
> will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it
> more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. *Would that a hawk pick you
> up,drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose
> to
> fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame
> of your ignoble blood. *May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea
> of your own trite, foolish beliefs.
>
> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That's why we have to keep the old away from political life. They have
nothing to offer the world but hate. And you don't even ride a bike,
so enjoy your wheelchair! ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 13, 9:06*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> > OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> > "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> > story...
>
> > Originally Posted by cujet
> > I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> > mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> > pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> > of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> > at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> > plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> I see you're still trying to scare people away from riding.
>
> > Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
>
> * ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> They are, are they? *Have /you/ looked at any real accident statistics
> on bicycling? *And who the heck is this "cujet" guy, and where did he
> post the above?
>
> > case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> > acccident.
>
> I wonder what "cujet" did, to fsck up so badly after only
> 15,000 miles. *
>
> > Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> > AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> > it for me.
>
> > Chris
>
> > ***
>
> > See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> > enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes.
>
> I've met a number of folks with Republican leanings here in
> r.b.m. *I think they're mostly nice people, and I'm mostly an
> apolitical, irreligious libertine. *In fact, I think most people,
> whether with Republican or Democrat, or Conservative or Liberal
> leanings are roughly "centerists" with overlapping viewpoints,
> maybe with some few contentious outlier opinions on certain
> topics that haven't yet led to The End Of Days.
>
> Republicans are not the enemy. *Self-purported, self-styled
> "revolutionaries" who want to upset the applecart are.
> Of whom does that description remind you?
>
> > But since
> > you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> > the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> "dangerousness" of cycling? *The solution to that is
> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>

OK, he fell down himself, but I've felt intimidated enough to make me
lose my balance. Republicans just ignore how bad our roads are since
they mostly drive SUVs, and then try to make Iraq safe.

Of course, the Democrats also ignore the issue if only they talk about
some of the problems here...

Originally Posted by Ebbtide
"I'd venture to guess that cyclists break down about the same as the
national party affiliation. Perhaps a little more left, but not
much."

Let's see Red is SUV town, hostile to bikes; Blue, friendly to public
transportation and bicycles. But the Democratic Party Machine doesn't
deliver the goods either.

Are all the Democratic party officials driving SUVs?

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 13, 8:46*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> > "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> > story...
>
> > Originally Posted by cujet
> > I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> > mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> > pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> > of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> > at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> > plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> > Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
> > case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> > acccident.
>
> > Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> > AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> > it for me.
>
> > Chris
>
> > See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> > enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes. But since
> > you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> > the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> > Either God or the Revolution, right?
>
> Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to
> empress us with your insight. *The evidence that you are a nincompoop
> will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it
> more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. *Would that a hawk pick you
> up,drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose
> to
> fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame
> of your ignoble blood. *May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea
> of your own trite, foolish beliefs.
>
> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey, Dr. Evil, instead of spewing insults you should check yourself to
find your true colors...

(of course, also check your blood pressure) ;)

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Originally Posted by Ka_Jun
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15

***

You fall under the revolution parameters. Neither party will solve the
problem. I think the revolution needs to be left libertarian.

Left libertarians see the need for COOPERATION, and traffic takes a
lot of it. Not too anarchist though as we need the government to set
up cameras to root out the bad drivers, but not to control speed.

Actually I believe in an American autobahn, while having BIKE LANES at
the same time. Is that a contradiction?

Well, it happens in Germany.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
>> But since
>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
> pretty obvious, but you're still here.

I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
much politer interblag.

--
Dane Buson -
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

[Bill Sornson[_3_]]

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>
>>> But since
>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>
>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>
> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
> much politer interblag.

You want to punch someone in the face over what's quoted above?

Wow.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>
>>> But since
>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>
> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
> much politer interblag.
>
Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 13, 8:46 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> > "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> > story...
>
> > Originally Posted by cujet
> > I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> > mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> > pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> > of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> > at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> > plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> > Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
> > case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> > acccident.
>
> > Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> > AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> > it for me.
>
> > Chris
>
> > See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> > enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes. But since
> > you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> > the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> > Either God or the Revolution, right?
>
> Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to
> empress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop
> will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it
> more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you
> up,drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you
> loose
> to
> fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame
> of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea
> of your own trite, foolish beliefs.

Hey, Dr. Evil, instead of spewing insults you should check yourself to
find your true colors...

(of course, also check your blood pressure) ;)

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Originally Posted by Ka_Jun
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15

***

You fall under the revolution parameters. Neither party will solve the
problem. I think the revolution needs to be left libertarian.

Left libertarians see the need for COOPERATION, and traffic takes a
lot of it. Not too anarchist though as we need the government to set
up cameras to root out the bad drivers, but not to control speed.

Actually I believe in an American autobahn, while having BIKE LANES at
the same time. Is that a contradiction?

Well, it happens in Germany.

>>> You are, at varying times, tedious, boring, earth shatteringly hilarious
>>> in
your idiocy,childish, moronic, pathetic, wretched, disgusting and pitiful.
You
are wholly without any redeeming social graces or value. If God ever decides
to give the planet an enema you'd better run like the wind because anywhere
you stand is a suitable place for The Insertion.

>>> And you probably dress funny, too.

> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 13, 9:06 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article
> >,
> KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> > OK, I just found a Republican who rides a bike for practical purposes.
> > "Rara avis" indeed, but well he's bruised but alive to tell his
> > story...
>
> > Originally Posted by cujet
> > I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> > mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> > pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> > of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> > at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> > plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.
>
> I see you're still trying to scare people away from riding.
>
> > Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> They are, are they? Have /you/ looked at any real accident statistics
> on bicycling? And who the heck is this "cujet" guy, and where did he
> post the above?
>
> > case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> > acccident.
>
> I wonder what "cujet" did, to fsck up so badly after only
> 15,000 miles.
>
> > Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.
>
> > AND, there is no way in he!! I am going to save energy for Obama. I do
> > it for me.
>
> > Chris
>
> > ***
>
> > See, you just seem to deny my theory that Republicans don't care
> > enough about anything to ride a bike for practical purposes.
>
> I've met a number of folks with Republican leanings here in
> r.b.m. I think they're mostly nice people, and I'm mostly an
> apolitical, irreligious libertine. In fact, I think most people,
> whether with Republican or Democrat, or Conservative or Liberal
> leanings are roughly "centerists" with overlapping viewpoints,
> maybe with some few contentious outlier opinions on certain
> topics that haven't yet led to The End Of Days.
>
> Republicans are not the enemy. Self-purported, self-styled
> "revolutionaries" who want to upset the applecart are.
> Of whom does that description remind you?
>
> > But since
> > you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> > the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>

OK, he fell down himself, but I've felt intimidated enough to make me
lose my balance. Republicans just ignore how bad our roads are since
they mostly drive SUVs, and then try to make Iraq safe.

Of course, the Democrats also ignore the issue if only they talk about
some of the problems here...

Originally Posted by Ebbtide
"I'd venture to guess that cyclists break down about the same as the
national party affiliation. Perhaps a little more left, but not
much."

Let's see Red is SUV town, hostile to bikes; Blue, friendly to public
transportation and bicycles. But the Democratic Party Machine doesn't
deliver the goods either.

Are all the Democratic party officials driving SUVs?

>>> You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid,
>>> nasty
and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus.
Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are
unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that
reality forgot.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Bill Sornson > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>>
>>>> But since
>>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>>
>>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>>
>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>> much politer interblag.
>
> You want to punch someone in the face over what's quoted above?
>
> Wow.

Nah, it's more of a generalized desire due to BananaBoy's (or whatever nym
he's using this week) general idiocy. Really, I'm not all bent out of
shape, I wish he'd just go away.

--
Dane Buson -
"Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon
having a good time."
-Sign seen in a Rome laundry

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>>
>>>> But since
>>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>>
>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>> much politer interblag.
>>
> Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?

Well, certainly not Tom.

--
Dane Buson -
Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to
see it tried on him personally.
-- Abraham Lincoln

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>>>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>>>
>>>>> But since
>>>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>>>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>>>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>>> much politer interblag.
>>>
>> Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?
>
> Well, certainly not Tom.
>
I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[[email protected]]

In rec.bicycles.misc KingOfTheApes > wrote:

> Originally Posted by cujet
> I am convinced bicycling is not safe. I have been riding for years,
> mostly to work and for fun. A recent accident broke my left arm into 7
> pieces. Surgery put it back together. However, I now have a non union
> of the bone in 2 places. I'm 45 years old and bones don't heal as well
> at this age. It looks like I will be held together by screws and a
> plate. I may never be able to put any load on my left arm.

Sounds a little bit like my crash. I busted an arm bone, my pinkie
finger, and my leg. And I've got you [cujet] by 11 years. I'm into my
tenth week of recuperation.
But put the two of us together and all we add up to is anecdotal
evidence.

> Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per mile traveled. In my
> case, I achieved a lifetime of about 15,000 miles before a serious
> acccident.

Yep, that's about how much I rode before mine.

> Sorry, but bicycling is not the answer, or even part of the answer.

Bicycling IS the answer. I will probably be off bikes until spring,
but when spring comes I'll be back riding full-time. Best thing to do
when you get bucked off a horse is get right back on. It's enjoyable,
I feel great when I do it, and I still have a scum-sucking pig of a
disease (MS) to cure.


Bill

__o | Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and
_`\(,_ | king, who will no more be admonished.
(_)/ (_) | --Ecclesiastes 4: 13

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Dane Buson > writes:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>
>>> But since
>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>
>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>
> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
> much politer interblag.

I allow I may be encouraging Sgt Simian, by responding
to, and rebutting his inanities.

But I'm certain that ignoring him would actually
encourage him all the more, as that would let
his destructive fearmongering go unchallenged.
To further explain my point:

most regular perusers of these various x-posted
newsgroups recognize his hogwash for what it is.

But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
may be affected to any degree. The very subject
line of this thread was obviously designed to
dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
"Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
mile traveled."

Great way to promote bicycling, eh?

Impugning people with certain /federal/
political leanings, for some alleged sorry
state of affairs is just a feint to divert
attention, so his planted seeds of Fear,
Uncertainty & Doubt (about the safety of
bicycling) might quietly and subtly sprout in
the minds of folks thinking about taking up
the bicycling avocation.
The ol' hit-'n-run propaganda technique.

His seeds are weeds in a garden. We can't
ignore weeds in a garden. Not for very long,
anyway.

And to anybody in the world who is considering
[re]joining the ranks of bicyclists: there are
plenty of resources available on-line, in hard
copy, at your local cycling clubs and among your
cycling compatriots & peers, from which to learn
to ride safely and enjoyably. If you see people
already riding safely and enjoyably in your own
parts of the world, that should be proof enough
that BananaCreamBoy is working against you.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > writes:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>>>>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But since
>>>>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
>>>>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>>>>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
>>>>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
>>>>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>>>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>>>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>>>> much politer interblag.
>>>>
>>> Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?
>>
>> Well, certainly not Tom.
>>
> I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed.

/You're/ relieved!?

I just dodged a punch in the face!

( Hi, Dane :-) :-) )


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tim McNamara]

In article >,
Dane Buson > wrote:

> In rec.bicycles.misc Bill Sornson > wrote:
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
> >>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
> >>>
> >>>> But since you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the
> >>>> Republican Party nor the Democratic Party is the solution, who's
> >>>> the solution?
> >>>
> >>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> >>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is pretty
> >>> obvious, but you're still here.
> >>
> >> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> >> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for
> >> a much politer interblag.
> >
> > You want to punch someone in the face over what's quoted above?
> >
> > Wow.
>
> Nah, it's more of a generalized desire due to BananaBoy's (or
> whatever nym he's using this week) general idiocy. Really, I'm not
> all bent out of shape, I wish he'd just go away.

Judicious use of the killfile helps manage these kinds of problems
pretty expiditiously. I just keep updating mine to keep including
what's-his-face's latest sock puppet.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
> may be affected to any degree. The very subject
> line of this thread was obviously designed to
> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
> mile traveled."
>
> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
....

Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
that is found in the numbers.

Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.

People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
injury rate.

And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
el Banana for instance.

[Edward Dolan]

> wrote in message
...
> On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
>> may be affected to any degree. The very subject
>> line of this thread was obviously designed to
>> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
>> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
>> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
>> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
>> mile traveled."
>>
>> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
> ...
>
> Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
> per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
> surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
> caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
> worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
> bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
> driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
> Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
> injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
> that is found in the numbers.
>
> Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
> difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
> riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
> the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.
>
> People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
> the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
> leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
> street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
> thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
> dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
> shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
> providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
> superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
> injury rate.
>
> And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
> challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
> el Banana for instance.

Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes for
roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are never
safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths are
the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all work
for bike paths as much as possible.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 14, 8:34 pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Bill Sornson > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dane Buson wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
> >>> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> >>>> But since
> >>>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> >>>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> >>> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> >>> "dangerousness" of cycling? The solution to that is
> >>> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>
> >> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> >> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
> >> much politer interblag.
>
> > You want to punch someone in the face over what's quoted above?
>
> > Wow.
>
> Nah, it's more of a generalized desire due to BananaBoy's (or whatever nym
> he's using this week) general idiocy. Really, I'm not all bent out of
> shape, I wish he'd just go away.
>

The Internet was created so smart and civilized behavior prevailed in
the jungle. But there still some alpha male apes that relapse to
primitive behavior. Usually cured with a banana. ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 14, 10:00*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * Dane Buson > writes:
>
> > In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
> >> In article KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
> >>> But since
> >>> you say biking is so dangerous, and neither the Republican Party nor
> >>> the Democratic Party is the solution, who's the solution?
>
> >> Solution to /what/ -- your disinformation about the supposed
> >> "dangerousness" of cycling? *The solution to that is
> >> pretty obvious, but you're still here.
>
> > I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
> > deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. *It would purely make for a
> > much politer interblag.
>
> I allow I may be encouraging Sgt Simian, by responding
> to, and rebutting his inanities.
>
> But I'm certain that ignoring him would actually
> encourage him all the more, as that would let
> his destructive fearmongering go unchallenged.
> To further explain my point:
>
> most regular perusers of these various x-posted
> newsgroups recognize his hogwash for what it is.
>
> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
> may be affected to any degree. *The very subject
> line of this thread was obviously designed to
> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
> mile traveled."
>
> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
>
> Impugning people with certain /federal/
> political leanings, for some alleged sorry
> state of affairs is just a feint to divert
> attention, so his planted seeds of Fear,
> Uncertainty & Doubt (about the safety of
> bicycling) might quietly and subtly sprout in
> the minds of folks thinking about taking up
> the bicycling avocation.
> The ol' hit-'n-run propaganda technique.
>
> His seeds are weeds in a garden. *We can't
> ignore weeds in a garden. *Not for very long,
> anyway.

There's no garden. There's simply a jungle on American roads, and
possibly in Canada. NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO LAWS AGAINST CELL PHONES,
NO RESPECT FOR CYCLISTS.

Ride at your own risk, and hope that if you are hit, it doesn't become
another HIT AND RUN, something very common around here.

>
> And to anybody in the world who is considering
> [re]joining the ranks of bicyclists: there are
> plenty of resources available on-line, in hard
> copy, at your local cycling clubs and among your
> cycling compatriots & peers, from which to learn
> to ride safely and enjoyably. *If you see people
> already riding safely and enjoyably in your own
> parts of the world, that should be proof enough
> that BananaCreamBoy is working against you.
>
> cheers,
> * * * * Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.


Yeah, you sure sound like a very unsafe person. ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 15, 1:45*am, wrote:
> On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> > But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
> > may be affected to any degree. *The very subject
> > line of this thread was obviously designed to
> > dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
> > Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
> > unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
> > "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
> > mile traveled."
>
> > Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
>
> ...
>
> Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
> per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
> surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
> caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
> worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
> bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
> driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
> Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
> injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
> that is found in the numbers.
>
> Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
> difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
> riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
> the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.
>
> People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
> the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
> leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
> street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
> thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
> dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
> shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
> providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
> superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
> injury rate.
>
> And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
> challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
> el Banana for instance.

Neither for 99% of Americans who do NOT dare ride on the road. First
you have to TAME TRAFFIC AND/OR BUILD BIKE FACILITIES. Did I say that
before? ;)

The other day I went down this very dangerous causeways where I've had
so many incidents before, and for the first time I obeyed the law...
and walked my bike across bridge. It took me over 5 min. of walking
and a lot of care not miss my step on a sidewalk that's only 2 1/2'
wide. Yeah, someone has determined that this bridge in not rideable,
but I'm sure he hasn't walked it either. He probably forgot that a
bicycle IS a vehicle in Florida.

I felt like a piece of trash, humiliated and mad. So I decided to ride
it back against all laws, including the law of the jungle, which is
the most prevalent around here. So it is incidents like this that keep
me coming back to the Internet, and making a lot of noise.

Well, it's not chaotic noise, but the clear cry of "lion!"

Here's a video of how the lions can be fought...

BATTLE AT KRUGER (THE PERFECT METAPHOR)

*WITHOUT SOLIDARITY WE ARE LUNCH!!!*

http://mybignoise.blogspot.com/2007/08/solidarity-law-of-jungle.html

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 15, 3:28*am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> >> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
> >> may be affected to any degree. *The very subject
> >> line of this thread was obviously designed to
> >> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
> >> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
> >> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
> >> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
> >> mile traveled."
>
> >> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
> > ...
>
> > Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
> > per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
> > surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
> > caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
> > worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
> > bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
> > driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
> > Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
> > injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
> > that is found in the numbers.
>
> > Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
> > difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
> > riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
> > the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.
>
> > People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
> > the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
> > leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
> > street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
> > thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
> > dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
> > shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
> > providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
> > superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
> > injury rate.
>
> > And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
> > challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
> > el Banana for instance.
>
> Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes for
> roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are never
> safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths are
> the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all work
> for bike paths as much as possible.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You've come down in the evil scale by 3 points. Now you stand at 7
(passing grade). Keep up the good work!

[Edward Dolan]

"ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> The Internet was created so smart and civilized behavior prevailed in
> the jungle. But there still some alpha male apes that relapse to
> primitive behavior. Usually cured with a banana. ;)

There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to
you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche.
To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest
parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend
to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 15, 3:28 am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
> Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes
> for
> roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are
> never
> safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths
> are
> the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all
> work
> for bike paths as much as possible.

>> You've come down in the evil scale by 3 points. Now you stand at 7
(passing grade). Keep up the good work!

Every time you make allusions to your animals of the jungle you will get
nothing but invective from me. Either reform yourself and start making some
sense or get used to being called a scumbag. Also, learn how to edit a post
so we do not have to keep wading through the same old **** over and over.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Harry Brogan]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:28:46 -0600, "Edward Dolan" >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>
>>> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
>>> may be affected to any degree. The very subject
>>> line of this thread was obviously designed to
>>> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
>>> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
>>> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
>>> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
>>> mile traveled."
>>>
>>> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
>> ...
>>
>> Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
>> per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
>> surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
>> caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
>> worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
>> bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
>> driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
>> Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
>> injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
>> that is found in the numbers.
>>
>> Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
>> difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
>> riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
>> the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.
>>
>> People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
>> the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
>> leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
>> street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
>> thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
>> dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
>> shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
>> providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
>> superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
>> injury rate.
>>
>> And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
>> challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
>> el Banana for instance.
>
>Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes for
>roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are never
>safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths are
>the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all work
>for bike paths as much as possible.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>aka
>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I
didn't see them" excuse.

The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that
excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the
cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the
car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull
over to take it.
__o | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle....
_`\(,_ | I no longer despair for the human race.
(_)/ (_) | ---H.G. Wells---

[Peter Clinch]

Harry Brogan wrote:

> I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
> bike paths is the way to go.

The usual problem with bike paths is rights of way conflicts where
they inevitably meet roads. That creates junctions, and junctions
are where most accidents happen.
Go and spend some time in NL and you find that a fietspad, even as
well implemented as in the NL, does *not* isolate you from traffic.
However, in NL you find that the typical driver is a great deal
more aware of bicycles than pretty much anywhere else you may have
cycled, and I suspect that that is rather more to do with the low
accident rates. It is actually the case that plenty of roads in NL
don't have a fietspad alongside and, especially in older towns and
villages, you may well be sharing the roads with cars. That these
areas don't appear to be accident black spots further suggests that
it's the awareness of many Dutch drivers that makes the biggest
difference.

> All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse.

And you hear that most at junctions, and with bike paths you've
still got junctions.

> The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that
> excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the
> cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the
> car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull
> over to take it.

It's illegal to use a mobile 'phone (hands-free excepted, not
because it's safe but it's vitually impossible to detect and
enforce sensibly) in the UK, and I suspect quite a few other places
too. But you still see numpties on their 'phones, and they'll
still be using them as they go past the junctions of bike tracks
and roads that you'll have to use to negotiate a bike path network.

Not that bike tracks don't have their place: there are several I
use simply because they're plain /nicer/ to use, and that's reason
enough, but that's not the same as making me safer.

As for the thesis "bicycling is not safe", well, of course it
isn't. People get killed falling over stepping in and out of the
bath, so if taking a bath isn't safe why do you expect cycling to
be? Check out the fatlities in cars, no shortage, so in absolute
terms that's certainly not safe either.
The trick is whether it is safe /enough/. Consult the actual
accident statistics for your own area to find out who suffers how
much in different places. At least in the UK cycling is actually
remarkably safe when you look at the actual figures, even though
the public perception is it's terribly dangerous. Moral of that
one is you can't trust superficial perceptions.
From a UK perspective (and it's not necessarily the same
eveywhere, granted)
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582 gives a more
balanced view than most people's perceptions IMHO.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
writes:
> On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
>> may be affected to any degree. The very subject
>> line of this thread was obviously designed to
>> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
>> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
>> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
>> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
>> mile traveled."
>>
>> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
> ...
>
> Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
> per-mile injury rates far higher than driving.

Some would suggest per-hour injury rates are more telling than
per-mile rates. I tend to agree.

> We shouldn't be too
> surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
> caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
> worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
> bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
> driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.

It's up to us individuals to mitigate potential traffic
dangers around us; to put it in simplistic terms: to
manufacture our own safety. We are well armed to do so,
by the contributions of so many riders (like yourself) who
have been there & done that, learned from their experiences,
and passed along what they've learned to any fellow riders
who might be interested in learning stuff the easier way
instead of the hard way.

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people don't want to learn
anything from anybody. Everybody's a f***in' expert.

A lot of people want things dumbed down for them so they don't
have to think about stuff, and that's what they expect bike
lanes to do for them. Play bumper-cars in real traffic, and
feel oh-so-safe.

And y'know what? I /like/ bike lanes when they're properly
implemented. I have nothing against bike lanes per se at all.

But I /do/ take issue with the notion that bike lanes are some
sort of sanctuary in which riders can ignorantly squirrel
around, without having to understand the social ramifications
of being part of traffic, and relating to/with our mobile,
vehicular neighbours. 'Cuz when you think about it, traffic
is a dynamic, mobile neighbourhood.

I think you'll agree with me when I suggest that being
among traffic (and surviving it) is more a matter of
smartening up than dumbing down.

It's not about bike lanes, it's about attitude.

A while back, Jobst Brandt took me to task because, like
you, I dared suggest bicycles are a superior mode of
transportation. The word "elitist" was evoked. I guess
he misinterpreted my statements as being anti-motorist or
driver-hating. Truth is, I get along with my neighbours
quite well.

Yeah. Traffic is a neighbourhood. And not just
metaphorically -- it really /is/ a neighbourhood.

You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
soap opera drama goin' on.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[[email protected]]

On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

> You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
> soap opera drama goin' on.

I like that interpretation.

With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
neighbors to really get to know each other.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
writes:
> On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
>> You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
>> soap opera drama goin' on.
>
> I like that interpretation.
>
> With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
> sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
> neighbors to really get to know each other.

Yeah, that sort of works. Except here in Vancouver
there are very many traffic-engineering attempts to
accomodate non-motorized traffic, and sometimes they
conflict with each other. For example, we recently had
sharrows installed along our Main Street. But at the
same time, we have these pedestrian's sidewalk bulges
at intersections. So from a rider's POV you're just
riding along in a straight line in the safe zone, and
suddenly the curb juts out at you, and you're squeezed
between the motorized traffic and the curb.

That's why I cry out for intelligent & thought-out
implementation instead of traffic engineers just
slap-dashing stuff down on the streets, dusting their
hands off, and saying: "There, that oughta keep 'em
happy."

Anyway, Commander CarmenMiranda'sHat says traffic is a
jungle. I say it's a neighbourhood. I shall leave it
to the readership to decide upon their own approaches.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Harry Brogan > writes:
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:28:46 -0600, "Edward Dolan" >
> wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>> On Nov 14, 8:00 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>>
>>>> But my concern is about incipient new ridership who
>>>> may be affected to any degree. The very subject
>>>> line of this thread was obviously designed to
>>>> dissuade people who may be considering bicycling.
>>>> Then he throws in unsubstantiated, unqualified,
>>>> unquantified, ostensibly hearsay statements like:
>>>> "Accident statistics on bicycling are horrific per
>>>> mile traveled."
>>>>
>>>> Great way to promote bicycling, eh?
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Well horrific is a subjective term but it is true that bicycling has
>>> per-mile injury rates far higher than driving. We shouldn't be too
>>> surprised by that. Most of the injuries to bicyclists (>80%) are
>>> caused by falling off, wiping out, things motorists don't have to
>>> worry about. And then, when a car and bike smash together, only the
>>> bicyclist gets hurt. Bicycling may be a little more deadly than
>>> driving but neither is remotely likely to result in fatality.
>>> Motorcyclists have far worse fatality rates than anyone but better
>>> injury rates than bicyclists. Again it is easy to predict this stuff
>>> that is found in the numbers.
>>>
>>> Bicycling has benefits that can't be gained any other way. That's the
>>> difference that we need to get across to beginners or potential new
>>> riders, and what is often forgotten when people start talking about
>>> the danger of riding. The benefits dwarf the dangers.
>>>
>>> People who are safety obsessed about bicycling are probably barking up
>>> the wrong tree. There is no safety in traffic. The only cure is to not
>>> leave the house. People who are too paranoid to ride a bike on the
>>> street get in a car and go 80mph on the highway without a second
>>> thought. That's simply irrational behavior. But bicycling has its
>>> dangers and they should be acknowledged. Here in particular, the truth
>>> shall set us free. The truth is that bicycling is the superior mode,
>>> providing superior health benefits and other benefits as well as
>>> superlatively efficient transportation, despite a relatively high
>>> injury rate.
>>>
>>> And I think it's okay to acknowledge that, because of the unique
>>> challenges of riding a bike, bicycling may not be for everybody. Like
>>> el Banana for instance.
>>
>>Many residential streets are safe for cycling but some aren't. Same goes for
>>roads both rural and urban. High speed highways with no shoulders are never
>>safe for cyclists. Bike lanes are not as safe as some think. Bike paths are
>>the safest provided they do not become too crowded. Ergo, we should all work
>>for bike paths as much as possible.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>>aka
>>Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
>
>
>
> I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
> bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I
> didn't see them" excuse.

Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
department store, library, community centre or job site.

At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
pix with a disposable camera.

Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Jens Müller[_2_]]

Tom Keats schrieb:
> In article >,
> writes:
>> On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>
>>> You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
>>> soap opera drama goin' on.
>> I like that interpretation.
>>
>> With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
>> sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
>> neighbors to really get to know each other.
>
> Yeah, that sort of works. Except here in Vancouver
> there are very many traffic-engineering attempts to
> accomodate non-motorized traffic, and sometimes they
> conflict with each other. For example, we recently had
> sharrows installed along our Main Street. But at the
> same time, we have these pedestrian's sidewalk bulges
> at intersections. So from a rider's POV you're just
> riding along in a straight line in the safe zone, and
> suddenly the curb juts out at you, and you're squeezed
> between the motorized traffic and the curb.
>
>

"safe zone"? If there is a sharrow, you would be before or after a car
in a sequential queue, when riding properly. So how could you be
"squeezed between the motorized traffic and the curb".

[Peter Clinch]

Tom Keats wrote:

> Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
> bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
> department store, library, community centre or job site.
>
> At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
> berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
> pix with a disposable camera.
>
> Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.

That's implementation dependent. There's no particular problem doing
one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example.

So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike
paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. No
shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing
that is 100% bound to afflict all examples.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Nov 17, 3:48*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
> > Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
> > bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
> > department store, library, community centre or job site.
>
> > At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
> > berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
> > pix with a disposable camera.
>
> > Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.
>
> That's implementation dependent. *There's no particular problem doing
> one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example.
>
> So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike
> paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. *No
> shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing
> that is 100% bound to afflict all examples.

In America, I'd guess that basic problem afflicts well over 90% of
bike paths. Almost all are linear parks with negligible
transportation benefit, and nothing will change that.

Within thirty miles of my house, I know of only one multi-use (or
"bike") path that is mostly used as a transportation link. It's only
a quarter mile long, and gets cyclists and peds through a dead end for
cars, and into the village center. Contrast that with the much-
trumpeted rail-trail, just completed, that runs through over 100 miles
of corn fields, paralleling beautiful, peaceful country roads!

Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths
into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up.
And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find
a bike path from his home to any particular destination.

Yes, I know a dozen bike path fans will mentally object, saying "Well,
I ride my bike path to XYZ!" But unless you're a statistical miracle,
almost all the practical places to which you want to ride are off the
bike path, and so is your home. And it's always going to be that way.

- Frank Krygowski

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 15, 7:23*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> [...]
>
> > The Internet was created so smart and civilized behavior prevailed in
> > the jungle. But there still some alpha male apes that relapse to
> > primitive behavior. Usually cured with a banana. ;)
>
> There is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to
> you, for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
> kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche.
> To call you a parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest
> parasitic species. You are worse than vermin, for vermin does not pretend
> to be what it is not. You are truly human garbage.
>
> ****ing Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

You know, Big Ed (notice you are not Dr. Evil anymore) the revolution
is...


Well, the revolution is hiring people...

-WILLING TO FORGO PAYMENT

-WILLING TO SAY THE TRUTH

-WILLING TO DIE IN THE LINE OF DUTY (ride a bike)

-WILLING TO REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE REVOLUTION...

The last one was kind of easy, wasn't it? ;)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Taming the Money Making Beast is a job for every lion tamer. The art
is in not letting yourself become lunch.

http://www.simonfieldhouse.com/LionTamerSonyJPEG-large.jpg

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 15, 10:49 pm, Harry Brogan > wrote:

> >Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota

> I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
> bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I
> didn't see them" excuse.
>
> The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that
> excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the
> cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the
> car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull
> over to take it.
> __o | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle....
> _`\(,_ | I no longer despair for the human race.
> (_)/ (_) | ---H.G. Wells---- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, Dr. Evil, wasn't the originator of that clever remark. He stole
it from me... ;)

This is what I mean, WE NEED BIKE LANES, BIKE PATHS, AND TAME TRAFFIC
WHERE APPLICABLE.

We can even raise the money for bike facilities from the reckless
drivers.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 16, 5:05 am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> Harry Brogan wrote:
> > I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
> > bike paths is the way to go.
>
> The usual problem with bike paths is rights of way conflicts where
> they inevitably meet roads. That creates junctions, and junctions
> are where most accidents happen.
> Go and spend some time in NL and you find that a fietspad, even as
> well implemented as in the NL, does *not* isolate you from traffic.
> However, in NL you find that the typical driver is a great deal
> more aware of bicycles than pretty much anywhere else you may have
> cycled, and I suspect that that is rather more to do with the low
> accident rates. It is actually the case that plenty of roads in NL
> don't have a fietspad alongside and, especially in older towns and
> villages, you may well be sharing the roads with cars. That these
> areas don't appear to be accident black spots further suggests that
> it's the awareness of many Dutch drivers that makes the biggest
> difference.
>
> > All to often we hear about the "I didn't see them" excuse.
>
> And you hear that most at junctions, and with bike paths you've
> still got junctions.
>
> > The person that hit me a couple of years ago tried to use that
> > excuse....at first....but then changed her story to the talking on the
> > cell phone excuse. Those need to be banned while you are driving the
> > car. There can't be a call that's so important that you can't pull
> > over to take it.
>
> It's illegal to use a mobile 'phone (hands-free excepted, not
> because it's safe but it's vitually impossible to detect and
> enforce sensibly) in the UK, and I suspect quite a few other places
> too. But you still see numpties on their 'phones, and they'll
> still be using them as they go past the junctions of bike tracks
> and roads that you'll have to use to negotiate a bike path network.
>
> Not that bike tracks don't have their place: there are several I
> use simply because they're plain /nicer/ to use, and that's reason
> enough, but that's not the same as making me safer.
>
> As for the thesis "bicycling is not safe", well, of course it
> isn't. People get killed falling over stepping in and out of the
> bath, so if taking a bath isn't safe why do you expect cycling to
> be? Check out the fatlities in cars, no shortage, so in absolute
> terms that's certainly not safe either.
> The trick is whether it is safe /enough/. Consult the actual
> accident statistics for your own area to find out who suffers how
> much in different places. At least in the UK cycling is actually
> remarkably safe when you look at the actual figures, even though
> the public perception is it's terribly dangerous. Moral of that
> one is you can't trust superficial perceptions.
> From a UK perspective (and it's not necessarily the same
> eveywhere, granted)http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582gives a more
> balanced view than most people's perceptions IMHO.
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Well, I knew the UK was a smarter place, not only because they have
tamed traffic to a higher degree, but also because they don't have a
Republican party. ;)

Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 16, 7:34*pm, wrote:
> On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> > You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
> > soap opera drama goin' on.
>
> I like that interpretation.
>
> With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
> sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
> neighbors to really get to know each other.

This neighborhood-community interpretation, relies on bikes, not on
cars and, much less, on SUVs with tinted windows. These represent the
American sprawl (sprinkled with McDonalds and lack of sidewalks).

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 16, 11:34*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * writes:
>
> > On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> >> You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
> >> soap opera drama goin' on.
>
> > I like that interpretation.
>
> > With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
> > sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
> > neighbors to really get to know each other.
>
> Yeah, that sort of works. *Except here in Vancouver
> there are very many traffic-engineering attempts to
> accomodate non-motorized traffic, and sometimes they
> conflict with each other. For example, we recently had
> sharrows installed along our Main Street. *But at the
> same time, we have these pedestrian's sidewalk bulges
> at intersections. *So from a rider's POV you're just
> riding along in a straight line in the safe zone, and
> suddenly the curb juts out at you, and you're squeezed
> between the motorized traffic and the curb.
>
> That's why I cry out for intelligent & thought-out
> implementation instead of traffic engineers just
> slap-dashing stuff down on the streets, dusting their
> hands off, and saying: "There, that oughta keep 'em
> happy."
>
> Anyway, Commander CarmenMiranda'sHat says traffic is a
> jungle. *I say it's a neighbourhood. *I shall leave it
> to the readership to decide upon their own approaches.
>
> cheers,

I don't know if Canada is a jungle, but here it is. And probably true
for most of the South.

Well, Los Angeles is kind of civilized, but then again it is a Blue
state, which happens to have a Republican governor who stands for the
Red issues.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 16, 11:51 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

> > I have to agree with Ed on this. Working towards safer and better
> > bike paths is the way to go. All to often we hear about the "I
> > didn't see them" excuse.
>
> Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
> bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
> department store, library, community centre or job site.
>
> At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
> berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
> pix with a disposable camera.
>
> Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.
>
> cheers,
> Tom

Why you generalize? Bike paths take ME to a shopping area. The one and
only. Then I've got some back roads that take me to the supermarket.
The rest is nobody's land. ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 17, 10:39 am, Frank Krygowski > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 3:48 am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom Keats wrote:
> > > Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
> > > bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
> > > department store, library, community centre or job site.
>
> > > At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
> > > berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
> > > pix with a disposable camera.
>
> > > Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.
>
> > That's implementation dependent. There's no particular problem doing
> > one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example.
>
> > So this highlights not a basic problem with bike paths, but with bike
> > paths that aren't implemented by people who understand their use. No
> > shortage of those around here either, but it isn't a fundamental failing
> > that is 100% bound to afflict all examples.
>
> In America, I'd guess that basic problem afflicts well over 90% of
> bike paths. Almost all are linear parks with negligible
> transportation benefit, and nothing will change that.
>
> Within thirty miles of my house, I know of only one multi-use (or
> "bike") path that is mostly used as a transportation link. It's only
> a quarter mile long, and gets cyclists and peds through a dead end for
> cars, and into the village center. Contrast that with the much-
> trumpeted rail-trail, just completed, that runs through over 100 miles
> of corn fields, paralleling beautiful, peaceful country roads!
>
> Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths
> into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up.
> And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find
> a bike path from his home to any particular destination.
>
> Yes, I know a dozen bike path fans will mentally object, saying "Well,
> I ride my bike path to XYZ!" But unless you're a statistical miracle,
> almost all the practical places to which you want to ride are off the
> bike path, and so is your home. And it's always going to be that way.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -

We do have some bike paths that go largely under-utilized because of
the intersections. They are a problem. Well they also run under the
train, which makes it more simply to just ride the train.

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tim McNamara > wrote:
> Dane Buson > wrote:
>
>> Nah, it's more of a generalized desire due to BananaBoy's (or
>> whatever nym he's using this week) general idiocy. Really, I'm not
>> all bent out of shape, I wish he'd just go away.
>
> Judicious use of the killfile helps manage these kinds of problems
> pretty expiditiously. I just keep updating mine to keep including
> what's-his-face's latest sock puppet.

I've got him killfiled to a fair-thee-well. Heck, I've even got anyone
who responds to his posts getting kacked unless they're on my whitelist.
Of course that means I occasionally see his posts when someone I do want
to read responds to him.

I was really just complaining with no real expectation or need of action.

--
Dane Buson -
"When I can no longer bear to think of the victims of broken
homes, I begin to think of the victims of intact ones."
-Peter DeVries

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
> Tom Sherman > writes:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>>>> Dane Buson wrote:

>>>>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>>>>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>>>>> much politer interblag.
>>>>>
>>>> Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?
>>>
>>> Well, certainly not Tom.
>>>
>> I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed.
>
> /You're/ relieved!?
>
> I just dodged a punch in the face!
>
> ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) )

Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
the newsgroups some.

--
Dane Buson -
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique.
-- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 17, 5:46 pm, Dane Buson > wrote:

>
> > I just dodged a punch in the face!
>
> > ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) )
>
> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
> the newsgroups some.
>
> --
> Dane Buson -
> C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique.
> -- Bosquet [on seeing the IBM 4341]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good, welcome back, so long as you don't come on the side of
Evil... ;)

(Evil is defined here as those who are happy with the status quo, and
don't want any changes)

Anyway this is a very important question to fight evil and lies out
there...

Would you favor a bike bailout?

Yeah you know, there is a good-old-fashioned American company
(remember the slogan "Made with Pride in the USA"?) that made
recumbents, and still makes bike trailers. Its name is Burley, which
not only doesn't use cheap labor, but also has a cooperative of free
workers without a CEO making big bucks. Well, you get the point which
is neither Chinese labor nor unionized American workers making SUVs...

http://www.bicycleman.com/recumbents/burley/burley.htm

Their recumbents were discontinued in 2006, and are supposed to come
back. But hey, it ain't easy having competition from cheap labor.
"Sun" of Taiwan does produce nice recumbents, but Taiwanese workers
enjoy benefits unheard of in America, like universal healthcare, so I
guess they are fair competion.

Anyway, President Obama, and honorable members of Congress who hold
the interests of lobbyists in such a high esteem, as well as the
American people who helped Obama become #1, as well as the patriots
who voted for McCain out of hate for Obama, why don't you bail out
Burley of America, or whatever its name is?

poll...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487295

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Keats > wrote:
>> Tom Sherman > writes:
>>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>>>>> Dane Buson wrote:
>
>>>>>> I will admit that sometimes truly I long for the day where you can
>>>>>> deliver a punch to the face over TCP/IP. It would purely make for a
>>>>>> much politer interblag.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Do you want to punch Commandante Monkey Poop or Tom Keats?
>>>> Well, certainly not Tom.
>>>>
>>> I am relieved to have my expectation confirmed.
>> /You're/ relieved!?
>>
>> I just dodged a punch in the face!
>>
>> ( Hi, Dane :-) :-) )
>
> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
> the newsgroups some.
>
PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> [...]
> Except for rare exceptions, you can't fit many utilitarian bike paths
> into our urban or suburban landscape. The land is already taken up.
> And the odds will always be minuscule that any given cyclist will find
> a bike path from his home to any particular destination.[...]

The main exception where there should be a bicycle/pedestrian path area
bridges on controlled access highways, since there is often not another
bridge nearby.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Jym Dyer]

[Removed rec.bicycles.rides where this was *never* on-topic.]

>> YOU'RE the one who can't handle riders taking to the road as
>> traffic, during Critical Mass. That makes you the fascist.
> That's because they do in a disorganized way, which in the
> end helps the public catalog them as troublemakers, a label
> applied to all cyclists.

=v= Motorists take to the streets in a disorganized way, as
traffic, and far more of them break many more laws and doing
much more damage. Yet somehow the focus in this case goes
onto individual drivers, as if they're individual human beings
or something.

=v= We should accept nothing less than the same consideration.
Those of us who don't live our lives ruled by fear sure don't.
<_Jym_>

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
> TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!

Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very
carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again.

I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the
typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. Think how cycle-aware the
average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if
rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with
/less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but
crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger).

As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is
shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the
typical motorist for cyclists. That awareness does not come about by
removing cyclists from the roads.

The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and
bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and
share the road with them as equals. In much the same way that users of
Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash
them like bugs.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> Well, I knew the UK was a smarter place, not only because they have
> tamed traffic to a higher degree, but also because they don't have a
> Republican party. ;)

The UK is one of the most ****ed up places on earth. Only France is more
****ed up. The last good prime minister they had was Margaret Thatcher who
at least had sense enough to know how to kick Argentine butt. I think the
Brits are still dumb enough to revere the late Winston Churchill when all he
ever did was preside over the demise of the British Empire. Great Britain is
no longer Great. It has now become a tiny kingdom by the sea.

>> Regards,
>>
>> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
>> aka
>> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
>> Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
>> TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!
>
> Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very
> carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again.
>
> I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the
> typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. Think how cycle-aware the
> average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if
> rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with
> /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but
> crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger).
>
> As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is
> shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the
> typical motorist for cyclists. That awareness does not come about by
> removing cyclists from the roads.
>
> The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and
> bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and
> share the road with them as equals. In much the same way that users of
> Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash
> them like bugs.
>
> Pete.
>
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is as always out to lunch when it come to
bicycle safety. It is a wonder he has not been run over and killed by now.
He is an idiot and you listen to anything he has to say at your peril. For
God's sakes, just look at his signature above and you will know everything
you will ever have to know about him. He has absolutely got the worst
signature of anyone on Usenet. Why can't he get a modest and humble
signature like mine!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>> I don't know if Canada is a jungle, but here it is. And probably true
for most of the South.

>> Well, Los Angeles is kind of civilized, but then again it is a Blue
state, which happens to have a Republican governor who stands for the
Red issues.

> You are a slubbering, barefoot, bearded lewdster. You quackling,
> ill-shapen, nonviable eel-eater. You are a nitrifying, middling,
> cringing hagfish. You fuddling, ill-bred, elf-skinned bottom feeder. You
> dizzying, sneaking, raffish pavement princess. You are an obfuscating,
> tempest-swept, suborbital hog. You are a perambulating, harassed,
> hillbilly arsewipe. You sprouting, ****-smelling, crack-headed
> fat-mouth. You are a scabbing, salt-cured, teapot-shaped gnat. You are
> less than a hopping, snuffly, postmenopausal xylophage. You twittering,
> cacodaemonic, stock-still fibber. You spitting, shivering, trembling
> ribagitationist. You are an ulcerating, emancipated, stereophonic
> goldfish. You leg-lifting, tedious, fool-born harridan. You rotating,
> lacteal, psychotic heroin addict. You sniveling, knotted, crusty
> harridan. You are an infecting, sick-minded, phlegmy hippopotamus. You
> are less than a perambulating, tuberculoid, misanthropical xylophone
> player. You are less than a staring, self-contradictory, one-eyed
> heckler. You are a flouncing, snoring, smoldering greaseball. You are an
> idolatrising, worrying, small-time kleptomaniac. You are a bewildering,
> two-way, la-di-da lackey. You drolling, fist-****ed, squeaky kidney. You
> are a belaboring, baying, dried-out chippy chaser. You spangling,
> self-winding, run-down ****blister.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

PS. You are an infecting, sick-minded, phlegmy hippopotamus.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 3:33*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
> > TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!
>
> Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very
> carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again.
>
> I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the
> typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. *Think how cycle-aware the
> average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if
> rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with
> /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but
> crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger).
>
> As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is
> shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the
> typical motorist for cyclists. *That awareness does not come about by
> removing cyclists from the roads.
>
> The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and
> bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and
> share the road with them as equals. *In much the same way that users of
> Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash
> them like bugs.
>
> Pete.
> --
> Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
from not interpreting my short worded solutions...

BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
TAMING.

This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
OF SPEEDING TICKETS.

You think Obama will change that?

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 4:10*am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> [...]
>
> > Well, I knew the UK was a smarter place, not only because they have
> > tamed traffic to a higher degree, but also because they don't have a
> > Republican party. ;)
>
> The UK is one of the most ****ed up places on earth. Only France is more
> ****ed up. The last good prime minister they had was Margaret Thatcher who
> at least had sense enough to know how to kick Argentine butt. I think the
> Brits are still dumb enough to revere the late Winston Churchill when all he
> ever did was preside over the demise of the British Empire. Great Britain is
> no longer Great. It has now become a tiny kingdom by the sea.
>

And yet their worst error was to discover America. If it had been the
French, we would at least have good food.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 4:17*am, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
> >> Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
> >> TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!
>
> > Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very
> > carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again.
>
> > I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the
> > typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. *Think how cycle-aware the
> > average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if
> > rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with
> > /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but
> > crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger).
>
> > As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is
> > shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the
> > typical motorist for cyclists. *That awareness does not come about by
> > removing cyclists from the roads.
>
> > The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and
> > bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and
> > share the road with them as equals. *In much the same way that users of
> > Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash
> > them like bugs.
>
> > Pete.
>
> > Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
> > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> > Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> > net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
>
> Peter Clinch of Dundee, Scotland is as always out to lunch when it come to
> bicycle safety. It is a wonder he has not been run over and killed by now..
> He is an idiot and you listen to anything he has to say at your peril. For
> God's sakes, just look at his signature above and you will know everything
> you will ever have to know about him. He has absolutely got the worst
> signature of anyone on Usenet. Why can't he get a modest and humble
> signature like mine!
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are Napoleonic...

http://geschichte.surfbrett.at/napoleon/images/napoleon_waterloo.jpg

and your destiny is to rule over the roaches of the world after you
finish with humanity, Dr. Evil.

[KingOfTheApes]

(This guy introduces the subject of walkable, which I adapt for this
forum to bikeable, so you can actually find out if you live in
something called in the old times a "community" or just a hole)

Doug wrote:
I was surprised that my old neighborhood in New Orleans was a
“walker’s paradise” at 100%, while my South Beach apartment was only
“very walkable” at 86%. I’m only somewhat walkable now at 51% in
DeLand.

Walkscore.com apparently gauges its rating by the proximity of things
like grocery stores, parks, movie theatres, schools, libraries,
bookstores, bars, drug stores, etc. However, that doesn’t necessarily
mean the streets are that friendly to cross! And it also leaves out a
lot of businesses and mentions others that no longer exist.
Nonetheless, assuming the margin of error is equal, it should give you
a rough idea of how pedestrian-friendly your community is.

Enter your address into this gizmo and see how walkable your
neighborhood is!

(enter address here)
http://walkscore.com/

***

My place is highly walkable, but hardly bikeable…

Should I be happy or sad about it?

NOTE: I correct myself, my place only scored a 54… I can indeed walk
in safety and without barking mastiffs (something unheard of in Miami)
but it’s quite far. If you like long walks though (like a mile) then
you should be happy with it. The only thing that doesn’t make me happy
is that I rather bike a mile than walk a mile.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 1:42*pm, KingOfTheApes > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 3:33*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > > Anyway, this assessment about Holland seems to support my idea TRAFFIC
> > > TAMING, BIKE ROUTES AND BIKE LANES. Thank you!
>
> > Or rather, the above assessment shows you didn't read what I wrote very
> > carefully, so take back your tanks and read it again.
>
> > I said that what makes the real difference isn't the bike paths but the
> > typical cycle-awareness of the drivers. *Think how cycle-aware the
> > average driver where you are is, and now think how he might improve if
> > rather than confronting him with more bikes, you confront him with
> > /less/, by moving the traffic off the road for most of the time (but
> > crucially *not* the time at junctions where there is most danger).
>
> > As I pointed out, there's plenty of shared road space in NL, and it is
> > shared relatively civilly because, AFAICT, of the awareness of the
> > typical motorist for cyclists. *That awareness does not come about by
> > removing cyclists from the roads.
>
> > The key to be safe isn't putting up physical barriers between cars and
> > bikes, it's making sure motorists are properly aware of cyclists and
> > share the road with them as equals. *In much the same way that users of
> > Smart cars share as equals with 18 wheeler trucks that /could/ squash
> > them like bugs.
>
> > Pete.
> > --
> > Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
> > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> > Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> > net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
>
> I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
> from not interpreting my short worded solutions...
>
> BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
> TAMING.
>
> This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
> comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
> PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
> OF SPEEDING TICKETS.
>
> You think Obama will change that?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, I'll pick on my own question...

You expect Obama to change America, or just waiting for Jesus?

Sometimes too much expection can lead to disillusion, and disillusion
can lead to the Republican Party, so we better become realistic as to
what the real chances are of this brand-new President changing
America.

An unsurmountable debt, two wars, global rising temperatures as well
as tough budgets can make his good performance more of a miracle, and
we know how's the only only that can do miracles...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CLI/17431~Sacred-Heart-of-Jesus-Posters.jpg

So who's going to fix America?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coming soon to a theater near you...

http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon%3A&l2=the&l3=Banana+Revolution%21&l4=

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
>> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
>> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
>> the newsgroups some.
>>
> PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!

Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
to agree I'm thinking. And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
you are. Still, I've been posting to the rb.* hierarchy for seven
years, I probably should stick around a little longer.

--
Dane Buson -
It is well known that *things* from undesirable universes are always seeking
an entrance into this one, which is the psychic equivalent of handy for the
buses and closer to the shops.
-- Terry Pratchett, "The Light Fantastic"

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 7:33*pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>
> > Dane Buson wrote:
>
> >> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
> >> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. *I've been more
> >> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
> >> the newsgroups some.
>
> > PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!
>
> Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
> to agree I'm thinking. *And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
> you are. *Still, I've been posting to the rb.* hierarchy for seven
> years, I probably should stick around a little longer.
>

I think Internet is so important that I'd hesitate to go to Heaven if
it didn't have Internet.

But some of the posters here seem to be brain dead. Particulary Dr.
Evil writing from Hell.

[[email protected]]

>Doug wrote:
>I was surprised that my old neighborhood in New Orleans was a
>“walker’s paradise” at 100%,

Interesting. I put the address of the house I grew up in--just off
the cemetery end of Canal St and got an 82%

Dave Clary
Corpus Christi, TX
http://davegetsfit.blogspot.com
Diet, Exercise, and Golf!

[Tom Keats[_16_]]

In article >,
KingOfTheApes > writes:
> On Nov 18, 7:33*pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
>> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>>
>> > Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> >> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
>> >> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. *I've been more
>> >> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
>> >> the newsgroups some.
>>
>> > PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!
>>
>> Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
>> to agree I'm thinking. *And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
>> you are. *Still, I've been posting to the rb.* hierarchy for seven
>> years, I probably should stick around a little longer.
>>
> I think Internet is so important that I'd hesitate to go to Heaven if
> it didn't have Internet.
> But some of the posters here seem to be brain dead. Particulary Dr.
> Evil writing from Hell.

Sometimes you're sadly amusing.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Peter Clinch > writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>
>> Bike paths generally don't get you to the butcher shop,
>> bakery, cheese shop, supermarket, hardware store,
>> department store, library, community centre or job site.
>>
>> At best they lead to pretty places where you can pick
>> berries when in season, and snap some soon-to-be-forgotten
>> pix with a disposable camera.
>>
>> Bike paths divert customers away from commerce.
>
> That's implementation dependent. There's no particular problem doing
> one's shopping via bike path in NL, for example.

Which part of NL? Amsterdam?

What about the rest of NL?


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Dane Buson wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>> Dane Buson wrote:
>>> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
>>> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
>>> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
>>> the newsgroups some.
>>>
>> PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!
>
> Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
> to agree I'm thinking. And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
> you are.[...]

Who me?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>> You expect Obama to change America, or just waiting for Jesus?

>> Sometimes too much expection can lead to disillusion, and disillusion
can lead to the Republican Party, so we better become realistic as to
what the real chances are of this brand-new President changing
America.

>> An unsurmountable debt, two wars, global rising temperatures as well
as tough budgets can make his good performance more of a miracle, and
we know how's the only only that can do miracles...

> You quiescing, dancing, subjective wretch. You are a disbelieving,
> smegma-encrusted, self-defeating impugner. You are less than a moiling,
> forsaken, gusseted wet blanket. You fussing, dotty, off-base toe-jam.
> You collapsing, poltroon, tottering farmhand. You gurgling, hueless,
> ****ing adenoid. You gulping, incognisant, distressed herpes sufferer.
> You absconding, squinting, villainous frump. You misconstruing,
> bottle-fed, debilitated hand job. You mollifying, fuggy, indigent pile
> of faeces. You belaboring, babbling, horsey duck. You excruciating,
> milk-livered, babyish drug baron. You gasifying, grungy, hulking retard.
> You are a pasturing, pearl necklace-wearing, pettifogging gallows bird.
> You foraging, free-swimming, jingling malkin. You are a pumicating,
> lacklustre, over-exposed licker. You are a misling, stuck-up, vile
> yoghurt eater. You are a nidulating, obsessive-compulsive, potty dog's
> groin. You postulating, hygienically challenged, hermaphrodite
> fat-mouth. You fagoting, reactionary, ill-formed bat. You are a
> sniggling, close-cropped, right-angled knockwurst. You are a pumicating,
> red-faced, ladylike corpse. You are a goggling, repugnant, xenophobic
> hogfish.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
> from not interpreting my short worded solutions...
>
> BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
> TAMING.

You can shout all you want, but that isn't the key to safety. The key
to safety is mutual respect between road users.

> This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
> comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
> PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
> OF SPEEDING TICKETS.

The bike facilities doesn't get you out of accidents happening at
junctions because if you want your "facilities" to go anywhere useful
they'll have to intersect with the roads, and so when the bikes are on
the roads the lack of awareness drivers have of bikes will be
exaggerated by their being fewer bikes /except/ at the junctions.

SUVs with deadly bumpers... well, even with "safe" bumpers the real key
is not colliding with vehicles at all. The key to that is mutual
respect, and you don't get that from bike lanes, and any "taming" of the
traffic you otherwise do is coloured by bikes being out of the equation
except at the most dangerous points (junctions).

> You think Obama will change that?

No.

I'm also pretty sure that ghettoising cyclists onto half-baked
"facilities" (and experience suggests that outside of places with
existing bicycle culture like NL, Denmark, Germany etc. they *will* be
half baked) won't help either.

No great shortage of "facilities" round here. It's usually quicker and
safer for me to take the roads.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Tom Keats wrote:

> Which part of NL? Amsterdam?
>
> What about the rest of NL?

There didn't seem to be any shortage of grocery shoppers doing the
rounds by bike in Den Haag or Alkmaar when I was there a week ago.

Places I've been in NL where it wouldn't really work are the places
where there's no bike paths anyway, rather than impractical ones.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Peter Clinch]

Phil W Lee wrote:
> Peter Clinch > considered Wed, 19 Nov 2008
> 08:45:14 +0000 the perfect time to write:
>
>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>
>>> Which part of NL? Amsterdam?
>>>
>>> What about the rest of NL?
>> There didn't seem to be any shortage of grocery shoppers doing the
>> rounds by bike in Den Haag or Alkmaar when I was there a week ago.
>>
>> Places I've been in NL where it wouldn't really work are the places
>> where there's no bike paths anyway, rather than impractical ones.
>>
> And that would only stop the locals from doing their shopping by bike
> path, not by bike-on-road - which many people choose to do even in the
> areas that bike paths are available.

Quite so: I didn't mean to imply that with no bike paths you can't shop
safely by bike, just that you can't use a bike path that isn't there.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 9:59*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * KingOfTheApes > writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 18, 7:33*pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
> >> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>
> >> > Dane Buson wrote:
>
> >> >> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
> >> >> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. *I've been more
> >> >> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
> >> >> the newsgroups some.
>
> >> > PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!
>
> >> Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
> >> to agree I'm thinking. *And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
> >> you are. *Still, I've been posting to the rb.* hierarchy for seven
> >> years, I probably should stick around a little longer.
>
> > I think Internet is so important that I'd hesitate to go to Heaven if
> > it didn't have Internet.
> > But some of the posters here seem to be brain dead. Particulary Dr.
> > Evil writing from Hell.
>
> Sometimes you're sadly amusing.
>

And slightly entertaining. ;)

Who's going to change this beast to admit bicycles, scooters, EVs and
other small vehicles?

Only Jesus or the revolution can, right? ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 19, 3:42*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
> > from not interpreting my short worded solutions...
>
> > BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
> > TAMING.
>
> You can shout all you want, but that isn't the key to safety. *The key
> to safety is mutual respect between road users.

Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.

>
> > This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
> > comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
> > PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
> > OF SPEEDING TICKETS.
>
> The bike facilities doesn't get you out of accidents happening at
> junctions because if you want your "facilities" to go anywhere useful
> they'll have to intersect with the roads, and so when the bikes are on
> the roads the lack of awareness drivers have of bikes will be
> exaggerated by their being fewer bikes /except/ at the junctions.
>
> SUVs with deadly bumpers... well, even with "safe" bumpers the real key
> is not colliding with vehicles at all. *The key to that is mutual
> respect, and you don't get that from bike lanes, and any "taming" of the
> traffic you otherwise do is coloured by bikes being out of the equation
> except at the most dangerous points (junctions).

Only way to solve this conflict is put cameras on main intersections.
Any sort of bullying would cost the predator dearly ($$$)... to fund
more bike facilities.

>
> > You think Obama will change that?
>
> No.

I guess only Jesus can, huh? Too bad for those who don't believe
there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around. ;)

>
> I'm also pretty sure that ghettoising cyclists onto half-baked
> "facilities" (and experience suggests that outside of places with
> existing bicycle culture like NL, Denmark, Germany etc. they *will* be
> half baked) won't help either.
>
> No great shortage of "facilities" round here. *It's usually quicker and
> safer for me to take the roads.

OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
> begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
> back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
> WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.

So where does that need bike paths?

> I guess only Jesus can, huh?

No.

> Too bad for those who don't believe
> there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around. ;)

a) there isn't, and b) even if there were it would be missing the point
creating bike paths.

> OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
> facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.

Absolutely, but if you insist on creating bike paths with your
"revolution" you'll find yourself being pushed onto them whether you
like it or not. Why do I think that? That's what experience shows me
happens. It required extensive lobbying by the CTC (UK's biggest
cyclists' organisation) to get rid of a word-change to the Highway Code
that would say cyclists should use "facilities" wherever possible. That
it succeeeded in quashing the revision shows that a bit of democracy in
action can work, but that it was necessary to do it shows that creating
bike paths tends to limit options rather than expand them.

I'm afraid if you want real results you hhave to deal with relaity,
rather than dreams.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 19, 10:38*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
> > begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
> > back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
> > WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.
>
> So where does that need bike paths?
>
> > I guess only Jesus can, huh?
>
> No.

OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
"chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
ckicken.

>
> > *Too bad for those who don't believe
> > there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around. ;)
>
> a) there isn't, and b) even if there were it would be missing the point
> creating bike paths.

Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.

>
> > OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
> > facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.
>
> Absolutely, but if you insist on creating bike paths with your
> "revolution" you'll find yourself being pushed onto them whether you
> like it or not. *Why do I think that? *That's what experience shows me
> happens. *It required extensive lobbying by the CTC (UK's biggest
> cyclists' organisation) to get rid of a word-change to the Highway Code
> that would say cyclists should use "facilities" wherever possible. *That
> it succeeeded in quashing the revision shows that a bit of democracy in
> action can work, but that it was necessary to do it shows that creating
> bike paths tends to limit options rather than expand them.
>
> I'm afraid if you want real results you hhave to deal with relaity,
> rather than dreams.

Dreams sometimes become reality and sometimes become nightmares. Which
is good always go back to good-ol'-fashinoned Orwell.

Forgive me this revolutionary rhetoric...

Originally Posted by Lamplight

I was actually thinking more along the lines of executing the
aristocrats and walking around calling each other "citizen".

***

No, a bloody revolution would make as much sense as the war in Iraq,
which is to say we don't need it.

This is more along the lines of Gandhi and King, who were inspired by
Jesus, whether he existed or not.

So Christians are welcome, Muslims are welcome (because we don't agree
with the West nor with the terrorists), and, of course, the proles are
welcome since this a revolution largely inspired by Orwell's
animalism, thus we will call each other, "Hey brother monkey!"

WHY ANIMALS? Thank Orwell in large part...

'Orwell agreed with Marx's social arguments, but as we will later see,
disagreed on many of his other beliefs. In Animal Farm, we can see his
depictions as man as a social animal and his Socialist ideologies
through old Major's very Marxist speech in the barn: "Why... do we
continue in this miserable condition? Because nearly the whole of the
produce of our labour is stolen from us by human beings. There,
comrades, is the answer to all our problems: It is summed up in a
single word ‹ Man. "Man is the only creature that consumes without
producing... He sets [the animals] to work, he gives back to them the
bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he
keeps for himself... "Only get rid of Man, and the produce of our
labour would be our own... That is my message to you, comrades:
Rebellion!'

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2074/orwell.htm

[KingOfTheApes]

(No we don't need with Lenin and Mao)

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
"We are not into violence.. Let's have no Soviet/French style
revolution with blood in the streets. Can we turn Bush's scores of
jails set up about the country under his War Commissions Act into 're-
education centers, ' for the non-believers..."


I think what we can learn from Russia is a bloodless Perestroika! From
the French we can learn their passion for "the simple pleasures of
life," free time (35 hour workweek) and good food, which are all in
line with our Epicurean revolution (thus the names of food for it).

The nonbelievers though should be re-educated on SAVING ENERGY, and
made to commute by bike at least 1 day a week.

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
> "chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
> need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
> tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
> ckicken.

Look at the NL, again. Plenty of places with no fietspads, yet
still families and kids out on bikes. Which takes you back to
respect being more important than bike paths.

> Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
> protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
> unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.

How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
traffic passing through junctions. And the more bikes aren't part
of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
junctions will be.

Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 19, 12:37*pm, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
> > "chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
> > need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
> > tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
> > ckicken.
>
> Look at the NL, again. *Plenty of places with no fietspads, yet
> still families and kids out on bikes. *Which takes you back to
> respect being more important than bike paths.

Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
bikeable place or just a "hole"...

(and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455

Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized? Perhaps never,
unless we use the whip (cameras and other traffic calming measures).

>
> > Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
> > protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
> > unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.
>
> How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
> you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
> can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
> traffic passing through junctions. *And the more bikes aren't part
> of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
> junctions will be.
>
> Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
> pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.

OK, we don't seem to disagree, perhaps just a matter of degree.

[KingOfTheApes]

I hope I don't sound too nationalistic... ;)

After the Big Three crash, what's next?

You know, after Detroit goes under, what do we do with Japanese and
European competition. I'd tax both Japanese and European imports
because they are not going to cash in into American weaknesses.

Then I'd make Detroit build fast trains, EVs, and bikes and let the
foreign invaders eat American pie. Well, let Minis and Smarts in, and
let them eat the rest.

Am I sounding too nationalistic?

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
>> Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
>> protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
>> unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.
>
> How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
> you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
> can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
> traffic passing through junctions. And the more bikes aren't part
> of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
> junctions will be.
>
> Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
> pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.

I'd have to agree, and I'll trot out my personal bete noire. I think
one of the best ways to improve safety (in the U.S.) is to make getting
and keeping a license a *little* harder and a *little* more expensive.
As it is with $25 and a pulse, you can pretty much get a license.

That and retesting *everyone* every five years. If you can't be
bothered to pay $50 instead of $25 (for example) and be tested on your
ability to pilot a two ton piece of machinery at high velocity, you
shouldn't be driving.

That might drop the bottom 5% and improve bike *and* pedestrian safety.

--
Dane Buson -
"I brought the atom bomb. I think it's a good time to use it."
-MST3K

[Dane Buson]

Tom Sherman > wrote:
> Dane Buson wrote:
>>
>> Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
>> to agree I'm thinking. And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
>> you are.[...]
>
> Who me?

Mmmmm hmmmm.

--
Dane Buson -
Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today --
I think he's from the CIA.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 19, 3:22*pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch > wrote:
>
> > KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
> >> Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
> >> protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
> >> unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.
>
> > How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
> > you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
> > can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
> > traffic passing through junctions. *And the more bikes aren't part
> > of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
> > junctions will be.
>
> > Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
> > pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.
>
> I'd have to agree, and I'll trot out my personal bete noire. *I think
> one of the best ways to improve safety (in the U.S.) is to make getting
> and keeping a license a *little* harder and a *little* more expensive.
> As it is with $25 and a pulse, you can pretty much get a license.
>
> That and retesting *everyone* every five years. *If you can't be
> bothered to pay $50 instead of $25 (for example) and be tested on your
> ability to pilot a two ton piece of machinery at high velocity, you
> shouldn't be driving.
>
> That might drop the bottom 5% and improve bike *and* pedestrian safety.
>

The same effect may be achievable by requiring a special license for
SUVs, which after all are "trucks."

Funny, they are trucks to go through the safety loopholes, but not to
require a license.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 19, 12:37*pm, Peter Clinch > wrote:

See, things are not as simple as "roads are good, bike paths/lanes are
bad"...

"Where I live now in Tigard, OR scored a 69, so it is an effort to
walk as most stores are about 1.5 miles away, but it is a pleasure to
bike as there are good paths and bike lanes. For example there's an
Albertsons 2.08 miles away at the end of a multiuse path that crosses
no streets, ends in their parking lot and with only 0.28miles of
narrow two lane between by apt and the start of the path. In contrast,
where I grew up in New Brunswick, NJ scored in the 80's as more stores
are nearby, but has no bike lanes and lots more traffic.
The walkable site is a good start but needs to account for road/
sidewalk conditions and traffic volume."

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455&page=2

[KingOfTheApes]

What does the word "banana" tell you?

"BANANA? Yes, it appeals to the monkey within us, yearning for the
simple life in the jungle. Well, perhaps it's a symbol of a better
world to come in frugality and peace."

As I was watching '2001: A Space Odyssey,' it perfectly made sense
that the monkeys were first vegetarian (banana eaters) before
acquiring the "knowledge" of killing and eating meat. So a Banana
Revolution would appeal to that world in the treetops, rather than the
technological advanced world depicted later in the movie.

Then I sat down and wrote the deep thought above. What's our future,
KILLING MONKEYS OR BANANA-PEACE-LOVING MONKEYS?

'Over images of an African desert, a caption reads "The Dawn of Man".
A tribe of herbivore apes is foraging for food. One of them is
attacked and killed by a leopard. They are driven from their water
hole by another tribe. Defeated, they sleep overnight in a small
exposed rock crater. Waking at sunrise, they find that a mysterious
black, rectangular monolith has appeared in front of their shelter.
They approach the monolith shrieking and jumping. Subsequently, one of
the apes (Daniel Richter) realizes how to use a bone as both tool and
a weapon while having mental flashbacks to the monolith, indicating
that the monolith has 'taught' him this knowledge. The apes are now
able to kill animals and eat meat. Next morning they wrest control of
the water hole away from the other tribe, killing their leader in the
process. Exultant in victory, the ape leader throws his bone into the
air which switches via match cut to a shot of an orbital satellite
millions of years in the future, circa 2000. This satellite and three
more immediately following it are generally identified as orbiting
nuclear weapons.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A...sey_%28film%29


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Banana Revolution
(for vegetarian monkeys)

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
> bikeable place or just a "hole"...
>
> (and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)
>
> http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455

For some values of "a lot". That's a statistically meaningless sample.

> Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
> are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?

It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. For example, not too
long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
amongst the general population. Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
major no-no for the general public.

Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 18, 8:53 pm, wrote:
> >Doug wrote:
> >I was surprised that my old neighborhood in New Orleans was a
> >“walker’s paradise” at 100%,
>
> Interesting. I put the address of the house I grew up in--just off
> the cemetery end of Canal St and got an 82%

Cemeteries are safer to walk than most places in America. Main risk of
walking in America is crime.

But people who got enough money to live in gated communities can so
pretty freely.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 20, 8:09*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > Not on major streets. It depends whether you are talking about a
> > bikeable place or just a "hole"...
>
> > (and there's a lot of people living in it, see poll)
>
> >http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=487455
>
> For some values of "a lot". *That's a statistically meaningless sample.
>
> > Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
> > are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?
>
> It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. *For example, not too
> long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
> amongst the general population. *Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
> major no-no for the general public.
>
> Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

OK, OK, but here is NOT EVEN AN ISSUE, nor will I expect it to be.
Before you can even fix the problem, you must accept you have a
jungle, right?

Just browse...

http://www.lulu.com/content/186268

One question, one characteristic that hints at a jungle is GATED
COMMUNITIES, where the Rich and Powerful isolate themselves in
relative safety, and then let the world fall prey to the Law of the
Jungle.

Is the UK like that? How often you find them in Europe for that
matter?

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> One question, one characteristic that hints at a jungle is GATED
> COMMUNITIES, where the Rich and Powerful isolate themselves in
> relative safety, and then let the world fall prey to the Law of the
> Jungle.
>
> Is the UK like that? How often you find them in Europe for that
> matter?

There's one just around the corner from me. Since we're in a very
un-troubled neighbourhood the consensus around where I live is it's a
complete waste of time for those who've bought houses in there.

So they're not isolating themselves in relative safety, they're just
isolating themselves. Their problem, not mine, rather than the other
way about.

You seem obsessed that you're living in a jungle. While I'm sure there
are parts of our respective nations that conform to the description I've
not seen much that suggests it's the rule rather than the exception.
Certainly not the case that it's a fair generalisation, yet that's what
you will persist in doing.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 20, 11:41*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > One question, one characteristic that hints at a jungle is GATED
> > COMMUNITIES, where the Rich and Powerful isolate themselves in
> > relative safety, and then let the world fall prey to the Law of the
> > Jungle.
>
> > Is the UK like that? How often you find them in Europe for that
> > matter?
>
> There's one just around the corner from me. *Since we're in a very
> un-troubled neighbourhood the consensus around where I live is it's a
> complete waste of time for those who've bought houses in there.
>
> So they're not isolating themselves in relative safety, they're just
> isolating themselves. *Their problem, not mine, rather than the other
> way about.
>
> You seem obsessed that you're living in a jungle. *While I'm sure there
> are parts of our respective nations that conform to the description I've
> not seen much that suggests it's the rule rather than the exception.
> Certainly not the case that it's a fair generalisation, yet that's what
> you will persist in doing.
>

Are you watching too many American shows? That may account for an
excess in SUVs and gated communities.

They are here everywhere, so they must mean something. Actually, I
think they mean the same as in Mexico or Costa Rica...

"about the EU and gated communities. I have not seen one. You can find
certain suburban towns where poverty is higher than the norm..
Certainly precautions such as bullet proof glass, I have yet to
find... What I notice.. No trailer parks.. Trailer parks are often sub
income and in a state of squalor.. It's rare to find such an invention
thourghout the EU.. Why. For the most part, you go to the biggest
towns we have extensively walked about town centers and not felt
unsafe. Places such as Barcelona, you might find your pockets picked,
but you are safe. So why a need for gated communities."

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=488100

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>> Are you watching too many American shows? That may account for an
excess in SUVs and gated communities.

>> They are here everywhere, so they must mean something. Actually, I
think they mean the same as in Mexico or Costa Rica...

Yes, I think it does mean the same thing. As civilization breaks down, those
with the wherewithal seek safety above all else. They will not only move to
gated communities, but they will fortify their homes with walls in the end.
Go to any third world country and you will see what I mean.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Dane Buson]

In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
>> Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
>> are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?
>
> It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. For example, not too
> long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
> amongst the general population. Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
> major no-no for the general public.
>
> Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

That's what I've observed for myself. That the thing that really
motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. This
is especially true if it's a rapid rise. Inconveinence in the form of
traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. But cost seems
to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.

--
Dane Buson -
"Never draw fire; it irritates the people around you."

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 20, 2:24*pm, Dane Buson > wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Peter Clinch > wrote:
>
> > KingOfTheApes wrote:
>
> >> Now the question is how many decades we will take to make drivers, who
> >> are used to the law of the jungle, more civilized?
>
> > It takes time, but it can (and does) happen. *For example, not too
> > long ago in the UK "one for the road" was perfectly acceptable
> > amongst the general population. *Nowadays drink driving is a pretty
> > major no-no for the general public.
>
> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.
>
> That's what I've observed for myself. *That the thing that really
> motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. *This
> is especially true if it's a rapid rise. *Inconveinence in the form of
> traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. *But cost seems
> to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.
>

Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
down. :(

But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing so
many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy. ;)

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> Are you watching too many American shows? That may account for an
> excess in SUVs and gated communities.
>
> They are here everywhere, so they must mean something.

It means they're a popular fashion accessory, not that you're living in
a jungle. I used to date a US resident and visited many times so my
outlook on the country isn't entirely confined to TV.

> "about the EU and gated communities. I have not seen one."

So you didn't bother with the fact that I live around the corner from one?

> find... What I notice.. No trailer parks.. Trailer parks are often sub
> income and in a state of squalor.. It's rare to find such an invention
> thourghout the EU..

Instead you get much more in the way of traveller communities (aka
gypsies), effectively the same but the trailers remain mobile and move
from place to place. AFAICT far more of that in the EU than in the US.

> Why. For the most part, you go to the biggest
> towns we have extensively walked about town centers and not felt
> unsafe. Places such as Barcelona, you might find your pockets picked,
> but you are safe. So why a need for gated communities."

The need is perception over reality. Not entirely unlike the need for
bike paths, in that respect.

Town centres is one think, sink areas in suburbs quite another. I can
take you places in most towns in the UK where you won't feel safe. I
wouldn't do that, simply because I wouldn't feel safe either.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 21, 3:14*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > Are you watching too many American shows? That may account for an
> > excess in SUVs and gated communities.
>
> > They are here everywhere, so they must mean something.
>
> It means they're a popular fashion accessory, not that you're living in
> a jungle. *I used to date a US resident and visited many times so my
> outlook on the country isn't entirely confined to TV.

Well, again, you may have visited only the beautiful areas.

>
> > "about the EU and gated communities. I have not seen one."
>
> So you didn't bother with the fact that I live around the corner from one?

I'm not saying you are lying, but the UK is NOT continental Europe,
and there seems to be a lot of resistance to the EU.

Is my friend lying?

>
> > find... What I notice.. No trailer parks.. Trailer parks are often sub
> > income and in a state of squalor.. It's rare to find such an invention
> > thourghout the EU..
>
> Instead you get much more in the way of traveller communities (aka
> gypsies), effectively the same but the trailers remain mobile and move
> from place to place. *AFAICT far more of that in the EU than in the US.
>
> > Why. For the most part, you go to the biggest
> > towns we have extensively walked about town centers and not felt
> > unsafe. Places such as Barcelona, you might find your pockets picked,
> > but you are safe. So why a need for gated communities."
>
> The need is perception over reality. *Not entirely unlike the need for
> bike paths, in that respect.

So Economic Apartheid is not a reality in America. Funny, there's even
a book on the subject...

Book Review: Economic Apartheid in America

A startling new book by co-founders of United for a Fair Economy
highlights the downfalls of an economic boom that has left millions of
Americans behind.

SocialFunds.com -- Concern about the South African practice of
apartheid, forced segregation and discrimination against the black
majority, sparked the growth of socially responsible investing in the
1970s and 1980s. A new book raises the specter of apartheid closer to
home in the U.S., only this time the inequality is not based on race,
but on income.

http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi?sfArticleId=342

>
> Town centres is one think, sink areas in suburbs quite another. *I can
> take you places in most towns in the UK where you won't feel safe. *I
> wouldn't do that, simply because I wouldn't feel safe either.

Are the authorities so vigilant as they are toward terrorism? Perhaps
they don't care, huh?

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Peter Clinch > writes:
>
> Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
cyclists. Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.

They will behave as they previously desired & expected
cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
been humbled.

It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
been humbled at all.

It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
the world.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Peter Clinch]

KingOfTheApes wrote:

> I'm not saying you are lying, but the UK is NOT continental Europe,
> and there seems to be a lot of resistance to the EU.
>
> Is my friend lying?

I am saying you are confusing anecdotal data with useful statistical
data. You quote anecdotes to support what you say, but my point in
pushing an anecdote back is to show you anecdotes don't realluy mean
much. But you appear to rely on them. "Here is a web log saying
someone thinks such and such, so that proves it!" It doesn't.

>> The need is perception over reality. Not entirely unlike the need for
>> bike paths, in that respect.
>
> So Economic Apartheid is not a reality in America. Funny, there's even
> a book on the subject...

er, what? I never said anything like that, so don't jump to such a
conclusion. I said the /need/ for geted communities is largely one of
perception. Which is nothing to do with economic apartheid.

You really do need to stop and read what people write, rather than just
ignoring what they write and printing something irrelevant you happen to
want to say as an "answer".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Peter Clinch > writes:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:

>> So Economic Apartheid is not a reality in America. Funny, there's even
>> a book on the subject...
>
> er, what? I never said anything like that, so don't jump to such a
> conclusion. I said the /need/ for geted communities is largely one of
> perception. Which is nothing to do with economic apartheid.
>
> You really do need to stop and read what people write, rather than just
> ignoring what they write and printing something irrelevant you happen to
> want to say as an "answer".


Hello Peter :-)

Your debating adversary shall not heed your advice,
for he is an anti-bicycling (upon public roads and
streets) propagandist, through and through.

I'm sure he does stop and read what people write/say,
but changing the subject is one of his favourite
tactics.

It is futile to discuss his remarks & statements
at the ostensible level. That just provides him
with opportunities to spew more propaganda. I
suggest aiming straight for the (metaphorical)
heart or the brain.

Commandant Klink here is simply out to dissuade people
from riding upon public streets & roads and thereby
requiring of drivers the effort of thought. His
strategy is to frighten bicyclists "out of the ways"
of drivers such as himself. It is time to deal with
him at a strategic rather than a tactical level.

Any effort to dumb-down operating a motor vehicle
is pernicious. But that is his ultimate goal.
His posting history proves that.

Beware the fifth column.


cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Jens Müller > writes:
> Tom Keats schrieb:
>> In article >,
>> writes:
>>> On Nov 16, 1:08 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can't dumb down a neighbourhood -- too much
>>>> soap opera drama goin' on.
>>> I like that interpretation.
>>>
>>> With that in mind I'm a huge fan of these stylish big double chevron
>>> sharrows that are being installed in several cities. Encourage these
>>> neighbors to really get to know each other.
>>
>> Yeah, that sort of works. Except here in Vancouver
>> there are very many traffic-engineering attempts to
>> accomodate non-motorized traffic, and sometimes they
>> conflict with each other. For example, we recently had
>> sharrows installed along our Main Street. But at the
>> same time, we have these pedestrian's sidewalk bulges
>> at intersections. So from a rider's POV you're just
>> riding along in a straight line in the safe zone, and
>> suddenly the curb juts out at you, and you're squeezed
>> between the motorized traffic and the curb.
>>
>>
>
> "safe zone"? If there is a sharrow, you would be before or after a car
> in a sequential queue, when riding properly. So how could you be
> "squeezed between the motorized traffic and the curb".

On Vancouver's Main Street, these intersection sidewalk bulges
jut out into the outside lane, thereby narrowing it. They
narrow the outside (parking) lane almost twice as much as
the parked cars do. A rider often has a long vehicle such as
a bus or semi beside him/her, or just a big, long flow of cars,
so moving into the adjacent inside lane is obviated, and your
intentions to do so are instantaneously pre-emtped. Don'cha
just hate being instantaneously pre-empted? That always happens
at intersections. It's a Murphy's (Jenkinson's) Law thing.
It's how life goes. Unfortunately. But that's what we're
stuck with.

Here's what our sidewalk intersection bulges look like:
<http://vancouver.ca/ENGSVCS/streets/admin/improvements/improvementTypes/bulges.htm>

I guess I'm making Vancouver's Main St sound ugly and dreadful.
But it isn't. It really is quite navigable, and one of our
best arterials upon which to ride. But it's a testing ground
for civic engineers/planners/designers. There will come a day
when Main St is absolutely perfect. Then some engineer/planner/
designer will come along, add something more, and ruin everything.

I live in an area where so many experts are striving to
determine what works best for everybody.

I'm <shrug> blessed, I suppose. Along with everyone else
on Main St.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 22, 12:23*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * Peter Clinch > writes:
>
>
>
> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.
>
> Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
> I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
> used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
> cyclists. *Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
> attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.
>
> They will behave as they previously desired & expected
> cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
> It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
> been humbled.
>
> It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
> been humbled at all.
>
> It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
> haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
> they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
> the world.


Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.
But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that
perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
who terrorize cyclists.

So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
predatory drivers?

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 22, 5:25*am, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> KingOfTheApes wrote:
> > I'm not saying you are lying, but the UK is NOT continental Europe,
> > and there seems to be a lot of resistance to the EU.
>
> > Is my friend lying?
>
> I am saying you are confusing anecdotal data with useful statistical
> data. *You quote anecdotes to support what you say, but my point in
> pushing an anecdote back is to show you anecdotes don't realluy mean
> much. *But you appear to rely on them. *"Here is a web log saying
> someone thinks such and such, so that proves it!" *It doesn't.

I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
America, it's kind of in-between. In other words, the more civilized
the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
Oslo or Canary Islands.

>
> >> The need is perception over reality. *Not entirely unlike the need for
> >> bike paths, in that respect.
>
> > So Economic Apartheid is not a reality in America. Funny, there's even
> > a book on the subject...
>
> er, what? *I never said anything like that, so don't jump to such a
> conclusion. *I said the /need/ for geted communities is largely one of
> perception. *Which is nothing to do with economic apartheid.
>
> You really do need to stop and read what people write, rather than just
> ignoring what they write and printing something irrelevant you happen to
> want to say as an "answer".

Perception is reality, and reality makes perception.

I'm sure you too have perceptions about life in Haiti, for example. ;)

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 22, 1:18*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * Peter Clinch > writes:
>
> > KingOfTheApes wrote:
> >> So Economic Apartheid is not a reality in America. Funny, there's even
> >> a book on the subject...
>
> > er, what? *I never said anything like that, so don't jump to such a
> > conclusion. *I said the /need/ for geted communities is largely one of
> > perception. *Which is nothing to do with economic apartheid.
>
> > You really do need to stop and read what people write, rather than just
> > ignoring what they write and printing something irrelevant you happen to
> > want to say as an "answer".
>
> Hello Peter :-)
>
> Your debating adversary shall not heed your advice,
> for he is an anti-bicycling (upon public roads and
> streets) propagandist, through and through.
>
> I'm sure he does stop and read what people write/say,
> but changing the subject is one of his favourite
> tactics.
>
> It is futile to discuss his remarks & statements
> at the ostensible level. *That just provides him
> with opportunities to spew more propaganda. *I
> suggest aiming straight for the (metaphorical)
> heart or the brain.
>
> Commandant Klink here is simply out to dissuade people
> from riding upon public streets & roads and thereby
> requiring of drivers the effort of thought. *His
> strategy is to frighten bicyclists "out of the ways"
> of drivers such as himself. *It is time to deal with
> him at a strategic rather than a tactical level.
>
> Any effort to dumb-down operating a motor vehicle
> is pernicious. *But that is his ultimate goal.
> His posting history proves that.
>

Tom, I'm saying the WHOLE SYSTEM, down to the lack of space for
cyclists and up to the gated communities, hints at a jungle where only
the strongest survive.

You get it, or playing dumb?

Read this and see my solutions to this jungle...

(Yes, bike facilities are in the program)

COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE

"Communism forgets that life is individual. Capitalism forgets that
life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the
thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher
synthesis. It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths
of both." -M.L. King

A PROGRAM FOR A BETTER WORLD

Why not build a new system? That offers PROSPERITY, SOCIAL JUSTICE and
FREEDOM; that discards the defects of both Communism and Capitalism;
and that places the system at the service of the human being, and not
the other way around. Why not HUMANISM?

Naturally, education and healthcare should be the maximum priorities;
they should be free --or low cost, in the case of higher education--
and accessible to all. Likewise, culture and sports should have a high
priority. The needs of women and children should receive special
attention (for example, adopting the affordable daycares; in general,
we would have much to learn from the Scandinavian model, though our
policy should emphasize that of "teaching them how fish," not of
"giving them the fish"). A POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC DEMOCRACY, that
includes competition and cooperation, would create a healthy
competition, and it would allow to satisfy the material and human
needs of all. (In this way, the cooperatives would have to be
efficient, while the capitalist enterprises would have to be more
humane; we would have much to learn from the Israeli kibbutz [non-
profit cooperatives]; and from the industrial cooperatives of
Mondragon, in the Basque Country [a "workers capitalism"].) We should
seek full employment (for instance, by creating jobs in the
construction of the transportation infrastructure, and a 30 hour
workweek should be enough). Public transportation should be A1. (The
city of Curitiba, in Brazil, offers us a functional model of
transportation; bicycle lanes should be implemented along all major
streets.) Our roads, where the Law of the Jungle rules, should be made
safer, say by enforcing passing on the left only. The homeless, who
have been pushed into our better parks, should be incorporated into
light but necessary duties, say picking up litter in exchange for
shared apartments and a minimum wage --there should be no homeless.
(Again, Curitiba is a model on this.) Junk food should have a warning
label (just like cigarettes), particularly the one destined to
children, and also be taxed to subsidize healthy alternatives. Housing
should be available at popular prices. (Prefabricated multifamily
units can help accomplish this; the movement of "New Urbanism" can
provide them with a sense of community and quality of life, say by
having abundant green areas.) Public corruption should be treated as
"public enemy No.1." TV and radio should be independent of Big
Business and the State. (This is due to two reasons: culturally,
because the ratings make bad programs become "good"... for business;
and, politically, because whoever has power over the media... will be
in power; however, people should be able to watch anything on video
and cable; the BBC offers us and example of an independent media.) The
"Free Press" should be democratized, so that, among other things, the
censorship of the opinions of the public is eradicated. Politicians
should live in the worst of the area they represent, so they know its
problems. And politics should become cheaper to avoid its control by
powerful groups (for example, offering free time on TV to the
candidates; we would have much to learn from the political model of
Switzerland [in particular, its political decentralization and its
opportunity to "vote with your feet" between cantons]). Nevertheless,
we should never follow neither anything nor anyone blindly. And, of
course, everything can be improved. Something to think about: While
the prohibition of drugs has been largely ineffective and costly (in
money, prison overpopulation, crime), regulated legalization --like
that of Holland-- can be a better solution to both addiction and
crime. And living free from fear of crime should be treated as a basic
need of society. The final form of this system would be determined by
the acceptance of the people themselves: Each and everyone of these
proposals should be submitted to referendum. And, the basis of
everything else: We should learn to live, not FROM, but WITH Nature.
This would amount to COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE…

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
ComandanteBanana > writes:
> On Nov 22, 12:23*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>> In article >,
>> * * * * Peter Clinch > writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
>> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.
>>
>> Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
>> I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
>> used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
>> cyclists. *Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
>> attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.
>>
>> They will behave as they previously desired & expected
>> cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
>> It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
>> been humbled.
>>
>> It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
>> been humbled at all.
>>
>> It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
>> haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
>> they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
>> the world.
> Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
> give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
> sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.

You just love to scare riders off the roads.
That's your goal, your objective.
Matthew 7:16

> But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sometimes you're almost funny.

> perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
> who terrorize cyclists.
> So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
> predatory drivers?

Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.

But keep trying. You no doubt will, anyway.

http://bicyclesafe.com/
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htm
http://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Peter Clinch]

ComandanteBanana wrote:

> I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
> communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
> America, it's kind of in-between. In other words, the more civilized
> the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
> Oslo or Canary Islands.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think
all of the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any
country on the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its
borders. But you go ahead and prove me wrong.

You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. Bye.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>
>> I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
>> communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
>> America, it's kind of in-between. In other words, the more civilized
>> the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
>> Oslo or Canary Islands.
>
> I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think all of
> the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any country on
> the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its borders. But you go
> ahead and prove me wrong.
>
> You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. Bye.

CommandanteBanana is more right than poor old Pete of Dundee, Scotland. It
is possible to make some generalizations about Colombia the same as it is to
make some generalizations about Norway with a view to contrasting the
differences between the two. Frankly, the less we hear from Pete, the
better. I have never yet known him to be right about anything.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Keats" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> ComandanteBanana > writes:
>> On Nov 22, 12:23 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> Peter Clinch > writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
>>> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.
>>>
>>> Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
>>> I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
>>> used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
>>> cyclists. Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
>>> attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.
>>>
>>> They will behave as they previously desired & expected
>>> cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
>>> It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
>>> been humbled.
>>>
>>> It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
>>> been humbled at all.
>>>
>>> It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
>>> haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
>>> they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
>>> the world.
>> Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
>> give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
>> sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.
>
> You just love to scare riders off the roads.
> That's your goal, your objective.
> Matthew 7:16
>
>> But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Sometimes you're almost funny.
>
>> perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
>> who terrorize cyclists.
>> So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
>> predatory drivers?
>
> Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.
>
> But keep trying. You no doubt will, anyway.
>
> http://bicyclesafe.com/
> http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htm
> http://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm

Actually, it is very dangerous to ride a bicycle in Florida. The roads are
narrow and crowded and high speed with no shoulders. It is the perfect storm
for getting yourself killed.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 11:48 am, "marika" > wrote:
> "Dane Buson" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > That's what I've observed for myself. That the thing that really
> > motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. This
> > is especially true if it's a rapid rise. Inconveinence in the form of
> > traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. But cost seems
> > to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.
>
> > --
>
> the price in some places is down to 1.70, though

It's funny, gas prices are down, and so are SUV sales. So I guess
people will have to ride bikes because they can't afford cars.

Whatever the reason, the result is good, and I feel good...

Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
down.

But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing
so
many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 11:48 am, "marika" > wrote:
> "Dane Buson" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > That's what I've observed for myself. That the thing that really
> > motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. This
> > is especially true if it's a rapid rise. Inconveinence in the form of
> > traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. But cost seems
> > to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.
>
> > --
>
> the price in some places is down to 1.70, though

It's funny, gas prices are down, and so are SUV sales. So I guess
people will have to ride bikes because they can't afford cars.

Whatever the reason, the result is good, and I feel good...

Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
down.

But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing
so
many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 11:55*am, "marika" > wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> >Tom, I'm saying the WHOLE SYSTEM, down to the lack of space for
> >cyclists and up to the gated communities, hints at a jungle where only
> >the strongest survive.
>
> this is scary.

Yes, the jungle is scary.

>
> >You get it, or playing dumb?
>
> this is really scary

Camouflage is a way of life in the jungle.

>
> >Read this and see my solutions to this jungle...
> >(Yes, bike facilities are in the program)
> >COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
> >"Communism forgets that life is individual.
>
> can't remember discussing your work ethic with him

We are fighting the jungle.

>
> >Capitalism forgets that
> >life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the
> >thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher
> >synthesis.
>
> hard worker, no

Why work so hard to feed the lions.

>
> >It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths
> >of both." -M.L. King
> >A PROGRAM FOR A BETTER WORLD
>
> this is promotional material for Space Nuts 2008

It's also a strategy for survival for the human species.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 3:38*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article >,
> * * * * ComandanteBanana > writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 12:23*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> * * * * Peter Clinch > writes:
>
> >> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> >> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes..
>
> >> Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
> >> I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
> >> used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
> >> cyclists. *Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
> >> attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.
>
> >> They will behave as they previously desired & expected
> >> cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
> >> It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
> >> been humbled.
>
> >> It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
> >> been humbled at all.
>
> >> It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
> >> haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
> >> they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
> >> the world.
> > Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
> > give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
> > sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.
>
> You just love to scare riders off the roads.
> That's your goal, your objective.
> Matthew 7:16
>
> > But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that
>
> * * * ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Sometimes you're almost funny.
>
> > perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
> > who terrorize cyclists.
> > So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
> > predatory drivers?
>
> Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.
>
> But keep trying. *You no doubt will, anyway.
>
> http://bicyclesafe.com/http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htmhttp://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm
>

Just tell me who are you in the jungle, SHEEP following the alpha-male
wolf, or hyena working for the lion?

I'm addressing the whole POLITICAL JUNGLE AS AN ECOSYSTEM OF HIERARCHY
AND LIES. SUVs are good here, bikes are not. Just the reverse of a
good moral stand.

If you are a cyclist in the capitalist jungle, you are dead meat. And
don't want to feed the vultures.

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 4:20*pm, Peter Clinch > wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
> > communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
> > America, it's kind of in-between. *In other words, the more civilized
> > the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
> > Oslo or Canary Islands.
>
> I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think
> all of the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any
> country on the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its
> borders. *But you go ahead and prove me wrong.
>
> You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. *Bye.

Nothing is Black and White, it's a matter of degree, where Scandinavia/
Holland is at the top of civilization (a 9 to make room for
improvement), Haiti is down to 0, Colombia is a 3 (believe it or not
they have great initiatives for bike facilities that are working) and
America is a 5. The UK I think gets a passing grade with a 7. Your BBC
documentaries about the jungle have taught me invaluable lessons as
well as Darwin and Orwell. Why you insist on defending the status quo
that only places our species on the most-endangered species? How can
you defend a system that denies my right to ride a bike in safety so I
can help Peace and the Environment?

I better stop talking before I lower the ratings given above. ;)

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 23, 7:30*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Keats" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > ComandanteBanana > writes:
> >> On Nov 22, 12:23 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Peter Clinch > writes:
>
> >>> > Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
> >>> > will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.
>
> >>> Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
> >>> I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
> >>> used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
> >>> cyclists. Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
> >>> attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.
>
> >>> They will behave as they previously desired & expected
> >>> cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
> >>> It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
> >>> been humbled.
>
> >>> It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
> >>> been humbled at all.
>
> >>> It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
> >>> haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
> >>> they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
> >>> the world.
> >> Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
> >> give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
> >> sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.
>
> > You just love to scare riders off the roads.
> > That's your goal, your objective.
> > Matthew 7:16
>
> >> But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that
> > * * *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > Sometimes you're almost funny.
>
> >> perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
> >> who terrorize cyclists.
> >> So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
> >> predatory drivers?
>
> > Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.
>
> > But keep trying. *You no doubt will, anyway.
>
> >http://bicyclesafe.com/
> >http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htm
> >http://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm
>
> Actually, it is very dangerous to ride a bicycle in Florida. The roads are
> narrow and crowded and high speed with no shoulders. It is the perfect storm
> for getting yourself killed.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
> aka
> Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks! And this THE model for Latin America, which in turn, becomes
the place for more gated communities. Or they steal the money from
there and invest it here, in relative safety.

[KingOfTheApes]

(letter from Europe)

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
Generally I agree with you. On the continent , you don't need gated
communities... The UK, not so sure...?... There must be a reason all
the UK people are retiring tn the continent... Besides, climate and
cost of living , that is... We are presently in the US.. Mich and
Calif... Going to your favorite sports bar and hearing of armed
invasions.. Disrupts your appetite... Gun sales up 2 and 3 times their
normal rate. Can't say but some business' are not booming in the
US...
Other disadvantages.. Mass transit.. Found out in Mich you can't get
to Detroit or Canada , by taking the train or bus and return on the
same day.. Don't know if I could hack that. We are used to taking mass
transit, when ever, where ever we want... Even from one small burg to
another small burg.../.. But, should you be able to live inside gated
communities in the lap of luxury , and don't turn on television.. It's
a nice life..../ Another advantage of driving in the EU over Driving
in the US.. There is much less need to take a load of CD's to keep you
entertained on the autoroutes... On EU radio, you have everything from
classic to US alternative pop... Regulated radio offers so much more
variety, over the crap we hear on US radio...

***

Thanks for that great feedback! Yeah, we shouldn't underplay the role
of a good Media in moving up the civilization scale. So is Public
Transportation, Public Safety (no need for Gated Communities) and Bike
Facilities.

I quote from my website...

'TV and radio should be independent of Big Business and the State.
(This is due to two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad
programs become "good"... for business; and, politically, because
whoever has power over the media... will be in power; however, people
should be able to watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us
and example of an independent media.)'

[KingOfTheApes]

(I guess the US is only a 3)

Originally Posted by mlts22
It depends on the part of the US. Austin, you don't need gated
communities. However, go to some other parts of the US, and a gated
community with an armed guard at the entrances is a must.

I'd give the US a 3, not because of where it is presently, but where
its headed. In Columbia, college educations are not something one goes
into major student loan debt for; they are considered an extension of
high school. Other countries are the same way, where college is paid
for by their governments.

I also give the US a 3 because of its lack of a health care system. If
despised nations such as Cuba and Iran can assure that their citizens
get proper health care without bankrupting them and their family, why
can't America do the same?

Finally, I give the US a 3 because of the lack of improvements in
communications and transport infrastructures. Instead of laying more
fiber, all the telcos and cable companies either are, or will be soon
charging by the bit. So, we are paying more for services as opposed to
less as time progresses, and this is not do to inflation. Roads too.
Take Austin. Most of its highways are proposed to end up as toll roads
(and of course this doesn't mean your commute time gets shorter...
just you pay 75 cents for the privilege of looking at another car's
bumper going home.)

***

See what I mean? I was being too soft on uncivilized behavior of all
sorts.

It sure seems to be heading down, but maybe, just maybe, Obama will
change things...

Well, I don't know but he's the last hope that we've got before
Armageddon or the Revolution. Of course, I prefer the Revolution.

[KingOfTheApes]

This new book seems to go to the root of the problem in the jungle...
"Money for bike facilities and traffic safety? Hey, there's not enough
dough to be made!"

'From the contractors who built sub-standard structures in New Orleans
and were told to “keep quiet”, to the whistleblowers who sacrificed
their jobs to come forward and expose the cover-ups, cooked books, and
cronyism nationwide within the Army Corps of Engineers, this film digs
deep to unearth the truth. While scientists charged with investigating
the Katrina disaster were intentionally led astray, journalists dug
their heels in to get to the root of “disaster capitalism”, a process
by which government insiders cash in with emergency no-bid contracts,
in times of national stress.

America Betrayed clearly exposes our government’s misappropriation of
funds in spending its citizens’ hard-earned tax dollars on rebuilding
the Iraqi infrastructure, while the bridges, dams, levees and highways
in this country are crumbling. America Betrayed is a cautionary tale
for those who trust their government, and hopefully a wake-up call to
change the status quo in Washington.'

http://americabetrayedmovie.com/main.html

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 24, 3:00*pm, KingOfTheApes > wrote:
> This new book seems to go to the root of the problem in the jungle...
> "Money for bike facilities and traffic safety? Hey, there's not enough
> dough to be made!"

Sorry, it's a film. So you can go to the matinee on Sunday and watch
it --if you can afford it. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
This new book seems to go to the root of the problem in the jungle...
"Money for bike facilities and traffic safety? Hey, there's not enough
dough to be made!"

'From the contractors who built sub-standard structures in New Orleans
and were told to “keep quiet”, to the whistleblowers who sacrificed
their jobs to come forward and expose the cover-ups, cooked books, and
cronyism nationwide within the Army Corps of Engineers, this film digs
deep to unearth the truth. While scientists charged with investigating
the Katrina disaster were intentionally led astray, journalists dug
their heels in to get to the root of “disaster capitalism”, a process
by which government insiders cash in with emergency no-bid contracts,
in times of national stress.

America Betrayed clearly exposes our government’s misappropriation of
funds in spending its citizens’ hard-earned tax dollars on rebuilding
the Iraqi infrastructure, while the bridges, dams, levees and highways
in this country are crumbling. America Betrayed is a cautionary tale
for those who trust their government, and hopefully a wake-up call to
change the status quo in Washington.'

http://americabetrayedmovie.com/main.html

> You are less than a sniffing, tainted, dampish ****face. You are a
> moiling, idle, encysted looter. You are a pimping, sun-dried,
> heat-releasing flummery. You frolicking, rancid, loopy yes-man. You
> evacuating, overweening, stodgy goblin. You stammering, motionless, just
> potty-trained imbecile. You are a screaking, arse-faced, overexcited
> arse. You are a nidificating, empty-headed, shuffling gull-catcher. You
> intonating, symbiotic, contrived grandma. You collapsing, illogical,
> teeming flirt-gill. You are less than a vomiting, baffled, melancholic
> death-token. You are a squalling, puppyish, blanched snot****. You are
> less than a dizzying, strip-mined, rash hayseed. You burning,
> flap-mouthed, floppy fugitive. You nitrifying, impertinent, slapstick
> zigzagger. You are a groveling, domesticated, ransacked telephonist. You
> are a freaking, droll, bearded wretch. You flopping, moldering, foppish
> homo. You are a farrowing, askew, abject waste of space. You
> bellyaching, brainwashed, pudgy gipsy. You are a stooping, stemless,
> squashed testicle. You are a bellowing, gushy, irreligious cornflake.
> You bitching, moribund, dud gimcrack. You sniffing, high voltage,
> overstrung pituitary gland. You waddling, light-fingered, pessimum flea
> beetle. You officiating, negligible, deliquescent garbage carter. You
> drooling, garbled, one-celled flypaper. You are less than a
> generalising, infective, consumptive neuter. You are a baffling, rotten,
> bucktooth piece of dog excrement. You cankering, disoriented, suspicious
> ****-knuckle.

****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

(I'm deleting one group because I can't do more than 5)

On Nov 24, 8:19*pm, "marika" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > --
>
> >> the price in some places is down to 1.70, though
>
> > It's funny, gas prices are down, and so are SUV sales. So I guess
> > people will have to ride bikes because they can't afford cars.
>
> > Whatever the reason, the result is good, and I feel good...
>
> > Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
> > down.
>
> > But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
> > crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing
> > so
> > many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy.
>
> Did you see SNL this weekend. *They're the only real winners in this
> economic downturn because there's so much to spoof.
> In the Big 3 sketch, the CEOs tell Congress that they drove down in a car
> (gasp) and were SHOCKED to find that gas was 2 dollars, "we kid you not"
> they added, surprised at the unbelievably high price.
> Perfect, summarizes how out of touch they are. *In one blow.
>
> (I can't find the youtube of it)
>
> mk5000
>
> " Everything's a dream when you're alone"--Swamp Thing:- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Perhaps they are so out of touch as those who live in gated
communities. They have helicopters and jets to go around, so who cares
about the danger SUVs pose to others or bike facilites. And then
Obama, who's supposed to fix things, is only thinking about how to
save the dinosaur. He can't do anything radical, right?

Let me tell you one neat solution, BRING EVERY MODEL AMERICAN
COMPANIES DESIGN FOR EUROPE (or where they have stocks like Opel and
Ford) and produce them here, stick shift and all. Those who can't
drive, let them RIDE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION or RIDE A BIKE.

But that would be too much of a revolution...

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vaux/vehicle/vehicleBrandAction.do?method=viewBrand&brandCode=9H

Neat, huh? ;)

[Peter Clinch]

ComandanteBanana wrote:
> (I'm deleting one group because I can't do more than 5)

Since you've been asked more than once by more than one person in
uk.rec.cycling not to cross-post your not-particularly UK relevant tosh
there, why not delete that one from your list?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 24, 8:23*pm, "marika" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >Yes, the jungle is scary.
>
> I'm glad you were able to respond with specific points. I'm always a bit
> uncomfortable forwarding any opinion articles on such debacles (and I try to
> forward about an equal number from both parties' point of view), because I
> don't really know enough about the legislative process to know how these
> policies are effected, but I do know that I like to complain about it. It
> has become more and more clear, though, as time marches on that it is
> usually both parties who've conspired to do the bidding of contributors, at
> the expense of the individual citizen. It has also become clear that almost
> no propoganda directed against one party, whether by the other, or in the
> form of an opinion 'article' is ever entirely true.
>
> mk5000

Again, the metaphor of the jungle is perfect. Both parties are
SURVIVORS of the political jungle, where they only care about their
own re-election.

It can be either Democratic or Republican or Independent so long as he
gets things done. And he can also be gay or whatever. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
...
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>> (I'm deleting one group because I can't do more than 5)
>
> Since you've been asked more than once by more than one person in
> uk.rec.cycling not to cross-post your not-particularly UK relevant tosh
> there, why not delete that one from your list?
>
> Pete.
>
> Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

What would be even better if Pete the Jerk would stop posting his incredibly
stupid and always wrongheaded messages to ARBR. That way we would never
have to see his odious signature again.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 25, 6:46*pm, "marika" > wrote:

> the revolution would be if you actually built the public transportation to
> enable people to ride it, there's not enough of it for your proposed
> revolution to work

Oh, I have the idea that all this big money that goes to save the Big
Three from their own stupidity and greed, should be put to work toward
public transportation and bike facilities. It would be good and it
would create great business and employment opportunities, sure to save
the economy.

1. INCREASE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE, such as in Europe and Japan. The
revenue so raised could be used to IMPROVE ALTERNATIVE
TRANSPORTATION*, from fast trains to the creation of BICICLE LANES
along all major streets.

*"A massive public works project that did not expand the deficit would
help; something like a massive clean energy program or nationwide high-
speed rail network financed by new taxes on pollution and fossil
fuels. A more progressive tax system would help as well. Both seem
inconceivable since the Bush administration wants to spend public
works dollars on Mars not earth, and Congress that has just enacted
tax breaks that exacerbate the wealth gap."
http://www.eugenelinden.com/news280.html

Actually this is how I started the revolution back in 1992 (at the
time of the Rio Summit)...

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote6

[KingOfTheApes]

On Nov 25, 8:29*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > ComandanteBanana wrote:
> >> (I'm deleting one group because I can't do more than 5)
>
> > Since you've been asked more than once by more than one person in
> > uk.rec.cycling not to cross-post your not-particularly UK relevant tosh
> > there, why not delete that one from your list?
>
> > Pete.
>
> > Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
> > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> > Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> > net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
>
> What would be even better if Pete the Jerk would stop posting his incredibly
> stupid and always wrongheaded messages to ARBR. That way we would *never
> have to see his odious signature again.

That signature means that he's ready to care for a sick patient, but
not for a sick world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0CIGsUV9C8

Kind of deep, huh?

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> That signature means that he's ready to care for a sick patient, but
not for a sick world.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0CIGsUV9C8

> Kind of deep, huh?

The US has the worst health care system in the world because it is so
expensive. Who can afford it? If Obama gives us a health care system that is
universal and affordable, that would not be such a bad thing.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[marika]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 8:29 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Peter Clinch" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > ComandanteBanana wrote:
> >> (I'm deleting one group because I can't do more than 5)
>
> > Since you've been asked more than once by more than one person in
> > uk.rec.cycling not to cross-post your not-particularly UK relevant tosh
> > there, why not delete that one from your list?
>
> > Pete.
>
> > Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
> > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
> > Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
> > net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
>
> What would be even better if Pete the Jerk would stop posting his
> incredibly
> stupid and always wrongheaded messages to ARBR. That way we would never
> have to see his odious signature again.

That signature means that he's ready to care for a sick patient, but
not for a sick world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0CIGsUV9C8

Kind of deep, huh?

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> news:i5CdnZEjosWufLPUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>
>> >
>> Marika is without doubt the dumbest female bitch ever to infest Usenet. I
>> can never figure out what she is blithering about. Maybe if she would
>> post a picture of herself, we could discover if she has any redeeming
>> features at all. So far, she is a complete zero.
>
> how awful I am so sorry
> but you are not getting a photo of me. It's bad enough that you fantasize
> about me in your rape fantasies.
> I'm not giving you a photo to allow you to stalk me even more

The only fantasy I have is wanting to kick your dumb ass since that is where
I think your brain is located. If you think I am stalking you, just stop
posting and you will disappear off my radar as though you were never there.
JimmyMac is the Stalker of these cycling newsgroups. All I ever do is just
kick ass!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 26, 8:17*pm, "marika" > wrote:
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > The US has the worst health care system in the world because it is so
> > expensive. Who can afford it? If Obama gives us a health care system that
> > is universal and affordable, that would not be such a bad thing.
>
> I agree
>
> then you would be able to afford the antipsychotics and therapy you need
>

I think he's bipolar, where he switches between good and evil.

[Edward Dolan]

"ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 8:17 pm, "marika" > wrote:
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>
> > The US has the worst health care system in the world because it is so
> > expensive. Who can afford it? If Obama gives us a health care system
> > that
> > is universal and affordable, that would not be such a bad thing.
>
> I agree, then you would be able to afford the antipsychotics and therapy
> you need

>> I think he's bipolar, where he switches between good and evil.

The Great Ed Dolan is the sanest man you will ever meet in this world of
woe. Marika is a typical female who does not know if she is coming or going.
ComandanteBanana is not half bad, but he needs to get off his animals of the
jungle crap.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>
>>> I'm not giving you a photo to allow you to stalk me even more
>>
>> The only fantasy I have is wanting to kick your dumb ass since that is
>> where I think your brain is located.
>
>
> well at least we are getting somewhere, you admit you have violent
> psychopathic fantasies about me
>
> and that the racist rapist fantasies are just a subset of those
>
>>If you think I am stalking you, just stop posting and you will disappear
>>off my radar as though you were never there.
>
> even when I am not here you fantasize about me

The only one here is doing any phantasizing is yourself. But that can never
be because you are a harlot and I am a Great Saint.
[...]


Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Rob Morley]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:00 -0600
"Edward Dolan" > wrote:

> I am a Great Saint.
>
Have you considered a promotion to martyrdom? All it would take is a
slip under an 18 wheeler.

[Edward Dolan]

"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
news:20081128144424.54ced272@bluemoon...
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:00 -0600
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>
>> I am a Great Saint.
>>
> Have you considered a promotion to martyrdom? All it would take is a
> slip under an 18 wheeler.

Debating with Marika is child's play for me. It is like shooting fish in a
barrel. Do not deprive me of some fun. We Great Saints seldom have any fun.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 27, 10:54*am, "marika" > wrote:

> great we always struck Pakistan last month ten dead in Waziristan
> specifically where Bin Laden has been rumored to have been hiding out
>
> now some 80 in Mumbai
>
> http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5imfDkEQ6jr_-MlAp2qhs0qD-CLEA

You know, there's metaphor that I like regarding a sick world and
terrorists... Contrary to what they tell you, terrorism doesn't happen
in a vacuum. They need a world that's full of injustice and lies. And
the more the world goes into a depression, the more terrorists will
pop up.

In a way, it's like an oportunistic virus that takes over a body
weakened by smoking, drinking and excess. Mumbay is a city of excess
in a country of poverty, and so is globalization (the law of the
jungle) promoted by West, a disease eagerly welcome by China and
India.

So I don't know how our doctor in the UK will cure this disease, but
he seems quite indifferent to it. Hey, we even have half of Africa
dying of diseases and nobody seems to care. Africa is only good for
oil and diamonds, right? I think the West is kind of sick, don't you
agree?

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 27, 10:05*pm, "marika" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Nov 20, 8:09 am, Peter Clinch > wrote:> OK, OK, but here is NOT EVEN AN ISSUE, nor will I expect it to be.
>
> Before you can even fix the problem, you must accept you have a
> jungle, right?
>
> Just browse...
>
> http://www.lulu.com/content/186268
>
> One question, one characteristic that hints at a jungle is GATED
> COMMUNITIES, where the Rich and Powerful isolate themselves in
> relative safety, and then let the world fall prey to the Law of the
> Jungle.
>
> Is the UK like that? How often you find them in Europe for that
> matter?
>
> ============
>
> There's an awful lot of estates, mansions and castles there. *Those are
> pretty much gated.
>
> mk5000

That's right. They were useful when the Vikings were pillaging Europe,
but now Scandinavia is even more civilized than the rest.

I say, we've got a lot to learn from the Scandinavians.

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 28, 9:44*am, Rob Morley > wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:00 -0600
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> > I am a Great Saint.
>
> Have you considered a promotion to martyrdom? *All it would take is a
> slip under an 18 wheeler.

At that age they don't dream about virgins. ;)

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> news:ie6dnQ7lYZ0GYrLUnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@prairiewave. com...
>>
>> The only one here is doing any phantasizing is yourself. But that can
>> never be because you are a harlot and I am a Great Saint.
>> [...]
>
> You say that I am the only one fantasizing about myself, (which by the way
> most fantasies of most people include fantasies about themselves except
> for murderous psychopaths who fantasize about rape like you do)

Liberal females all deserve to be raped so that they will get an
introduction to the realties of life. It is the easiest way I know to turn
them into good solid conservatives.

> But that my fantasies are impossible because I am a harlot.
>
> UHHHHH Ed, if I were in fact a harlot (and your evidence thus far of my
> harlotry has been nonexistent except for the rape fantasy that you have of
> me), then surely that would not prevent me from fantasizing about myself.

ALL liberal females are harlots! Jeez, do I have to explain EVERYTHING to
you?

Alas, Marika, you and I can never become lovers. We Great Saints are like
lone eagles. We reside on high mountain tops and spend all of our time
staring into the ether. We have no time for frivolities.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Nov 27, 10:05 pm, "marika" > wrote:
>>That's right. They were useful when the Vikings were pillaging Europe,
>>but now Scandinavia is even more civilized than the rest.
>
>>I say, we've got a lot to learn from the Scandinavians.
>
> . Still shopping for one.

The Great Ed Dolan is of Irish ancestry and it is ever His delight to kick
Scandinavian ass. Plenty of dumb Swedes here in Minnesota! I think Marika is
Congolese, not nearly White enough for a Scandinavian, not even for a dumb
Swede. However, Tom Sherman of ARBR is of Danish origin. He might suit her.
He is unmarried and rich as all get out. He would be a good catch for a
Congolese maiden lady, but only if she is not a harlot. Tom, like me, will
have nothing to do with harlots.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Rob Morley]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:05:54 -0600
"Edward Dolan" > wrote:

>
> "Rob Morley" > wrote in message
> news:20081128144424.54ced272@bluemoon...
> > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:00 -0600
> > "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> >
> >> I am a Great Saint.
> >>
> > Have you considered a promotion to martyrdom? All it would take is
> > a slip under an 18 wheeler.
>
> Debating with Marika is child's play for me. It is like shooting fish
> in a barrel. Do not deprive me of some fun. We Great Saints seldom
> have any fun.
>
I can suggest ways to enliven your dreary existence - why not enjoy a
game of Russian roulette solitaire, or relax with a nice glass of
Liquid Drano?

[KingOfTheApes]

Originally Posted by Cosssack
"Hell NO ... the WORLD is just fine ...."


Maybe because you don't live in the jungle, where many things are
happening, like the War on Drugs that has put 2 million people behind
bars, so some contractors can get fat...

Anyways, Switzerland --where you live-- has approved a sick approach
to drug addiction where heroin has been approved for addicts.

If you think about it the average Western consumer should be put on
addiction programs for OIL ADDICTION. Yeah, all that oil is feeding
injustice and terrorism in the world.

From the revolutionary program below:

While the prohibition of drugs has been largely ineffective and costly
(in money, prison overpopulation, crime), regulated legalization --
like that of Holland-- can be a better solution to both addiction and
crime.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prosperity in Frugality

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

[Edward Dolan]

"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
news:20081130180323.43fc8476@bluemoon...
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:05:54 -0600
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Rob Morley" > wrote in message
>> news:20081128144424.54ced272@bluemoon...
>> > On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:27:00 -0600
>> > "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am a Great Saint.
>> >>
>> > Have you considered a promotion to martyrdom? All it would take is
>> > a slip under an 18 wheeler.
>>
>> Debating with Marika is child's play for me. It is like shooting fish
>> in a barrel. Do not deprive me of some fun. We Great Saints seldom
>> have any fun.
>>
> I can suggest ways to enliven your dreary existence - why not enjoy a
> game of Russian roulette solitaire, or relax with a nice glass of
> Liquid Drano?

Obviously you have no consideration for poor Marika. If I don't humor her,
who will?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> The Great Ed Dolan is of Irish ancestry and it is ever His delight to
>> kick Scandinavian ass. Plenty of dumb Swedes here in Minnesota! I think
>> Marika is Congolese, not nearly White enough for a Scandinavian, not even
>> for a dumb Swede. However, Tom Sherman of ARBR is of Danish origin. He
>> might suit her. He is unmarried and rich as all get out. He would be a
>> good catch for a Congolese maiden lady, but only if she is not a harlot.
>> Tom, like me, will have nothing to do with harlots.
>
> thanks
>
> http://www.madehow.com/images/hpm_0000_0005_0_img0068.jpg

My Greatness prevents me from ever going to a link unless it is FULLY
explained beforehand. Unlike you, I was not born yesterday.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[marika]

"Dane Buson" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
> my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. I've been more
> than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
> the newsgroups some.
>
> --


how'd you do

mk5000

"'Go ahead', she said. "Campbell will be so pleased. I'll tend to
Marshall. '
The world was upside down. What was he, a Master of the Universe, doing
down here on the floor, reduced to ransacking his brain for white lies to
circumvent the sweet logic of his wife?
The Masters of the Universe were a set of lurid, rapacious plastic dolls
that his otherwise perfect daughter liked to play with" -- Bonfire of the
Vanities, Tom Wolfe

[Edward Dolan]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Obviously you have no consideration for poor Marika. If I don't humor
>> her, who will?
>
> know that you are supposed to be "humoring" but what does this all
> mean?-Besdies that it is supposed to be funny?

"Humoring" means to string you along for the dolt that I know you are. I do
it because of the sense of noblesse oblige which I feel toward my inferiors
such as you.

> Have you seen No Country for Old Men?
>
> I'm pretty sure you must have--but if not-please do

I have seen it. What point to you want to make in connection with it? But I
must warn you, I thought it was the worst movie ever made. Mindless violence
is mindless. What else is there to be said about it?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Nov 30, 7:26*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "marika" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> Obviously you have no consideration for poor Marika. If I don't humor
> >> her, who will?
>
> > know that you are supposed to be "humoring" but what does this all
> > mean?-Besdies that it is supposed to be funny?
>
> "Humoring" means to string you along for the dolt that I know you are. I do
> it because of the sense of noblesse oblige which I feel toward my inferiors
> such as you.
>
> > Have you seen No Country for Old Men?
>
> > I'm pretty sure you must have--but if not-please do
>
> I have seen it. What point to you want to make in connection with it? *But I
> must warn you, I thought it was the worst movie ever made. Mindless violence
> is mindless. What else is there to be said about it?
>

I've thought you said you were for the war in Iraq.

More deaths today, but oil junkies are happy.

[ComandanteBanana]

(Hey, somebody is reading this, right? Deep study of human behavior is
taking place)

To know human society... poke with a stick at an ant colony

I often think of myself as a monkey poking a stick at an ant colony to
observe its behavior. Well, there's a science that comes from that
observation, which can answer fundamental questions about humanity...

"We can not know where we are going unless we know where we came from"
-E.O. Wilson

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97547749

"Wilson came to believe that humans, like ants, are genetically
designed to live within natural limits. It is becoming increasingly
obvious that those limits are directly related to reduced energy use
and consumption of natural resources, family planning, and cooperation
among societies, rather than competition."

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005121653

***

But I think big Ed is more interested in roaches than ants...

Originally Posted by jfmckenna
"I always preferred the magnifying glass to the stick."

The stick is meant to cause some kind of reaction. When observing
roaches though I change the stick for the shoe.

Roaches show me that they operate in the dark and that they like to
eat anything. And they are more individualistic than cooperative ants.
Perhaps ants show leftist tendencies while roaches show Republican
leanings.

[ComandanteBanana]

(I'd hate to leave out of the revolution, guys, so here's an update)

Originally Posted by -=£em in Pa=-
"I think we should try to attain the status of Brazil before
shooting for Switzerland."

You have a point there, particularly if we talk about the Curitiba
model for American cities...

Curitiba's Bus System is Model for Rapid Transit
By Joseph Goodman, Melissa Laube, and Judith Schwenk

Bus systems provide a versatile form of public transportation with the
flexibility to serve a variety of access needs and unlimited range of
locations throughout a metropolitan area. Buses also travel on urban
roadways, so infrastructure investments can be substantially lower
than the capital costs required for rail systems. As a result, bus
service can be implemented cost-effectively on many routes. Yet,
despite the inherent advantages of a bus service, conventional urban
buses inching their way through congested streets don’t win much
political support. The essence of a Bus Rapid Transit is to improve
bus operating speed and reliability on arterial streets by reducing or
eliminating the various types of delay.

The bus system of Curitiba, Brazil, exemplifies a model Bus Rapid
Transit (BRT) system, and plays a large part in making this a livable
city. The buses run frequently—some as often as every 90 seconds—and
reliably, and the stations are convenient, well-designed, comfortable,
and attractive. Consequently, Curitiba has one of the most heavily
used, yet low-cost, transit systems in the world. It offers many of
the features of a subway system—vehicle movements unimpeded by traffic
signals and congestion, fare collection prior to boarding, quick
passenger loading and unloading—but it is above ground and visible.
Around 70 percent of Curitiba’s commuters use the BRT to travel to
work, resulting in congestion-free streets and pollution-free air for
the 2.2 million inhabitants of greater Curitiba.

http://www.urbanhabitat.org/node/344

***

You know what, I'm going to make a wish list, such as I'd make for
Santa, just that this is a to-do list for the revolution. I say "the
revolution" because I don't think these things can get accomplished by
regular politicians...

1- low crime by decriminalizing drugs

2- good public transportation

3- traffic safety

4- BIKE FACILITIES

5- littering control

6- low cost, high quality healthcare, based on prevention

7- fast trains

8- no more gated communities

9- noise pollution control

10- eradication of homelessness

(add your own petition)

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
"A Swedish exchange student , who came to my high school. He was
Lutheran and quite conservative.. Been a life long friend outside
Goteborg. When in the US years ago, he railed against the Swedish
Socialists... Well, his primary college education.. Foreign languages
and export. Job training did not take. They paid him to again go back
to school.. He found his vocation.. He's been paying Swedish taxes
ever since. After seeing the poverty of America and how his friends
here faired.. He no longer rails against Swedish socialists."

***

I choose a name for my revolution (besides banana)... HUMANISM.

It's about being human, not left or right. But the right seems to have
it wrong too often. And the left often does nothing. Here's some
highlights of the article on the post-partisan politician... a
"Republican" by the name of Schwarzzenegger.

ON EXPERIENCE
"I said, There's a storehouse of experience up in Sacramento and look
at the shape the state is in. So it couldn't be experience that makes
the state in good shape. What it needs is the will. The will to go and
make tough decisions and the right decisions. I have the will, is what
I told the people. And that's exactly what I have. I have the will."

ON UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
"It was a party-line vote in the California Assembly --all Democrats
voting yes and every single member of his party, the Republicans,
voting no --and yes, the bill that was passed proposed paying for the
expansion of health-care insurance by increasing the state tax on
cigarettes."

ON TOUGH POLLUTION CONTROLS
"And then, on Wednesday, Bush. Well, Bush's EPA, which announced that
it would not permit California and sixteen other states to set their
own stringent standards for greenhouse-gas emissions. The bill that
had stood as the best example of what Arnold could do for the United
States from the state of California had been declared moot by an
administration that had been able to do so little for the United
States from Washington, D.C."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prosperity in Frugality

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

[ComandanteBanana]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americo
I once lived in a suburb that decided to put walk/bike paths along
every street in the city. They were wider than most sidewalks and they
painted a line seperating the bikes from the pedestrians. The only
drawback was that the project uprooted too many trees - but, still, I
thought it was a splendid idea.

***

Where I live I can't ride to 70% of the places I would if I had bike
facilities. There's only a new scenic trail that takes me close to
some shops and I can take the back streets to the supermarket. But the
main roads are no man's land, and I have been threatened and
terrorized for using my right to be on the road.

That would have been my contribution to fight greed, injustice,
terrorism and global warming but my right to survive takes preference
in the jungle.
__________________
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" -M.L. King

[Edward Dolan]

"ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> ON UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE
> "It was a party-line vote in the California Assembly --all Democrats
> voting yes and every single member of his party, the Republicans,
> voting no --and yes, the bill that was passed proposed paying for the
> expansion of health-care insurance by increasing the state tax on
> cigarettes."

Universal health care will be expensive, probably on the order of public
school education K-12. The only way to finance it will be a value added tax.
Even so, it is critically needed. This will not be socialism anymore than
public schools are considered socialism. It will simply be a right by virtue
of being a citizen of the country.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
...
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Americo
> I once lived in a suburb that decided to put walk/bike paths along
> every street in the city. They were wider than most sidewalks and they
> painted a line seperating the bikes from the pedestrians. The only
> drawback was that the project uprooted too many trees - but, still, I
> thought it was a splendid idea.
>
> ***
>
> Where I live I can't ride to 70% of the places I would if I had bike
> facilities. There's only a new scenic trail that takes me close to
> some shops and I can take the back streets to the supermarket. But the
> main roads are no man's land, and I have been threatened and
> terrorized for using my right to be on the road.
>
> That would have been my contribution to fight greed, injustice,
> terrorism and global warming but my right to survive takes preference
> in the jungle.

ComandanteBanana is right about the roads and streets being unfriendly to
cyclists. Florida is an especially dangerous state for cyclists. Even though
he doesn't realize it, I am on his side.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[KingOfTheApes]

On Dec 3, 2:38*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Quote:
> > Originally Posted by Americo
> > I once lived in a suburb that decided to put walk/bike paths along
> > every street in the city. They were wider than most sidewalks and they
> > painted a line seperating the bikes from the pedestrians. The only
> > drawback was that the project uprooted too many trees - but, still, I
> > thought it was a splendid idea.
>
> > ***
>
> > Where I live I can't ride to 70% of the places I would if I had bike
> > facilities. There's only a new scenic trail that takes me close to
> > some shops and I can take the back streets to the supermarket. But the
> > main roads are no man's land, and I have been threatened and
> > terrorized for using my right to be on the road.
>
> > That would have been my contribution to fight greed, injustice,
> > terrorism and global warming but my right to survive takes preference
> > in the jungle.
>
> ComandanteBanana is right about the roads and streets being unfriendly to
> cyclists. Florida is an especially dangerous state for cyclists. Even though
> he doesn't realize it, I am on his side.

OK, welcome aboard. The cost of healthcare is even making autoworkers
prohibitively expensive for the Big Three.

On the subject of Florida roads, we often don't even have sidewalks to
walk on. I walked today for 80 min. (a distance I could have biked in
20 min.) and even so I had to walk on the road part of the way. We are
not even an afterthought. :(

[Edward Dolan]

"KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 3, 2:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
[...]
> ComandanteBanana is right about the roads and streets being unfriendly to
> cyclists. Florida is an especially dangerous state for cyclists. Even
> though
> he doesn't realize it, I am on his side.

>> OK, welcome aboard. The cost of healthcare is even making autoworkers
prohibitively expensive for the Big Three.

>> On the subject of Florida roads, we often don't even have sidewalks to
walk on. I walked today for 80 min. (a distance I could have biked in
20 min.) and even so I had to walk on the road part of the way. We are
not even an afterthought. :(

ComandanteBanana is a true road warrior. I used to be one myself, but
decided I would rather live to a ripe old age than die young. He is very
smart to walk his bike whenever necessary. I do that too when conditions
warrant it.

Best Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[ComandanteBanana]

On Dec 3, 8:28*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "KingOfTheApes" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 3, 2:38 pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> [...]
>
> > ComandanteBanana is right about the roads and streets being unfriendly to
> > cyclists. Florida is an especially dangerous state for cyclists. Even
> > though
> > he doesn't realize it, I am on his side.
> >> OK, welcome aboard. The cost of healthcare is even making autoworkers
>
> prohibitively expensive for the Big Three.
>
> >> On the subject of Florida roads, we often don't even have sidewalks to
>
> walk on. I walked today for 80 min. (a distance I could have biked in
> 20 min.) and even so I had to walk on the road part of the way. We are
> not even an afterthought. :(
>
> ComandanteBanana is a true road warrior. I used to be one myself, but
> decided I would rather live to a ripe old age than die young. He is very
> smart to walk his bike whenever necessary. I do that too when conditions
> warrant it.
>

Thank you. In the jungle SURVIVAL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT CONCERN. But
you don't just become a couch potato (which is what they want so you
become sick and dependent on the healtchcare industry), just adapt to
the conditions. I still bike and kayak, but do so on protected bike
paths (which you endorse) or go out at night in the case of the kayak.