Best Way To Carry Pepper Spray ?

[Steve Sr.]

Hello,

I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to
ride off some of the excess!

Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket
and taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.

Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is
immediately accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer
suggestions as to holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.


Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
getting pepper sprayed.


Thanks,

Steve

[PatTX[_2_]]

Steve Sr. wrote:
::
:: Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper
:: spray to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started
:: carrying some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride.
:: Since I know where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray
:: in my pocket and taking it out before I get to where the dog might
:: be loose.

My pepper spray canister came with a velcro band that goes around a bike
tube. I put mine on the top tube. There is a velcro patch on the canister as
well. You could make a strap and use the iron-on velcro to secure that to
the strap. Strangely enough, since I bought the pepper spray, all I have
ever needed to do was wield my water bottle as if it were a rock. Grab the
bottle and put it near your ear and shake it as if you are going to throw a
fastball. It seems all dogs know this action and will shy away instantly.
At first, I thought, "Oh great, if I throw it, I lose a $10 water bottle!"
but I have never had to go ahead and fling it. <shrug> whatever works....




: Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
:: blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
:: still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female
:: pit bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the
:: pepper spray but will come back for more the next day.
:: Unfortunately, this dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic
:: yet dumb enough keep getting pepper sprayed.

Steve, this dog needs to be reported to the authorities. It is just a matter
of time before someone gets mauled.

Pat in TX

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Steve Sr. > writes:

> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
> still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
> bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
> spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
> dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
> getting pepper sprayed.

Drop a MilkBone biscuit for Puppy. If possible, one
with a thick wad of peanut butter plastered onto it.

That oughta keep her busy for a while. I haven't
met the pooch yet who could resist the temptation
of free peanut butter, despite its sticky, gooey,
lingual/palatal consequences.

If all goes well, she gets her trophy, you get
to escape, and everybody's happy.

Except she'll routinely expect her special MilkBone
from you everytime you ride by. Maybe the both of
you will attain friendly, if not at least mutual
terms. Sounds like the Protection racket, doesn't
it? :-)

If you're dead-set on going the pepper spray route
(even though it heretofore obviously hasn't worked,)
maybe arrange a system where it shoots out the soles
of your shoes. That way it's more likely to get right
into Puppy's face, and you don't have to aim downward
and backward while trying to speedily propel a
bicycle forward.

I have a strong hunch that scents like Chanel No 5
or Revlon's "Charlie" would be more effective than
pepper spray for repelling canines. I figure animules
who like to roll around in manure & rotten fish guts
must absolutely hate to smell pretty -- such predatory
techniques as smelling pretty seem to work only for
human females.

Too much patchouli seems to repel everything.
And it's very easy to attain too much patchouli.

Pepper spray isn't the only weapon in the arsenal.
But weapons are to be invoked only after reasonable
means & enticements have been shown to be ineffective.

Nothing gets a dog all distracted & obsessed like
peanut butter. Or in some cases, ice cream.
But it's usually logistically difficult to pack
defensive ice cream on a bicycle.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0800, Tom Keats wrote:

>
> Pepper spray isn't the only weapon in the arsenal. But weapons are to be
> invoked only after reasonable means & enticements have been shown to be
> ineffective.
>
> Nothing gets a dog all distracted & obsessed like peanut butter. Or in
> some cases, ice cream. But it's usually logistically difficult to pack
> defensive ice cream on a bicycle.
>

By dropping treats from a bicycle, aren't you training the dog to chase
other cyclists? The dog chases a cyclist. The dog gets a treat. Surely
after enough positive reinforcement, the dog learns a new trick.

--Luigi



--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

[Jim]

I was " grabbed " by a dog two weeks ago. It was standing kinda harmless
in the road, I passed it, then it spun, snarled and tried to take a bite
of my leg. Luckily it didn't get a good hold, but it did rip my pant leg
and cause some bruising.

Next day I bought some pepper ( or whatever it is ) spray, and velcroed
it to my handlebar.

tic tic, a week passes.

Yesterday I was out riding with my brother, he in the lead, when a
rather big, I'd guess 70 or 80 lb, dog came at him at a full run from
behind a building. I saw it, yelled some warning and he stood up on the
pedals just in time for the dog to miss his leg and slam into the rear
wheel and derailer. The wheel " taco-ed " and the derailer snagged in
the spokes breaking itself to bits.

The dog rolled, turned, and came at me. I was trying to get the stupid
can of spray off the bars and where I could use it, and finally did, but
with way too much difficulty. The dog circled me, but didn't attack. It
eventually ran off, but watched us from a distance. This was in mildly
hilly farm country, and our concern was getting away and home. Brothers
bike was unrideable. He carried it home.

What I took away from this it that the spray needs to be really easy to
get to and use. Yesterdays attack only lasted a few seconds, and I
didn't have time to stop the bike and use the spray. Unless it had been
in my hand already, there just wasn't enough time or warning.

Interesting this came up. I really need to rethink how to carry the
stuff.

The other thing is I think maybe a thing to do would be to dismount the
bike ( quickly ) on whatever side the dog wasn't, and use it as a
shield, possibly buying time to get the spray in hand. In both of my
recent dog encounters, I couldn't have outrun the dog, so pedaling away
wasn't an option, I might as well stop.


I'm considering a velro pad on my jacket front and around the spray can.
I'll stick the can to my chest area or shoulder or sleeve.


jim d

[[email protected]]

On Nov 28, 10:27*pm, Jim > wrote:
> I was " grabbed " by a dog two weeks ago. It was standing kinda harmless
> in the road, I passed it, then it spun, snarled and tried to take a bite
> of my leg. Luckily it didn't get a good hold, but it did rip my pant leg
> and cause some bruising. *
>
> Next day I bought some pepper ( or whatever it is ) spray, and velcroed
> it to my handlebar.
>
> tic tic, a week passes.
>
> Yesterday I was out riding with my brother, he in the lead, when a
> rather big, I'd guess 70 or 80 lb, dog came at him at a full run from
> behind a building. I saw it, yelled some warning and he stood up on the
> pedals just in time for the dog to miss his leg and slam into the rear
> wheel and derailer. The wheel " taco-ed " and the derailer snagged in
> the spokes breaking itself to bits.
>
> The dog rolled, turned, and came at me. I was trying to get the stupid
> can of spray off the bars and where I could use it, and finally did, but
> with way too much difficulty. The dog circled me, but didn't attack. It
> eventually ran off, but watched us from a distance. This was in mildly
> hilly farm country, and our concern was getting away and home. Brothers
> bike was unrideable. He carried it home.
>
> What I took away from this it that the spray needs to be really easy to
> get to and use. Yesterdays attack only lasted a few seconds, and I
> didn't have time to stop the bike and use the spray. Unless it had been
> in my hand already, there just wasn't enough time or warning.
>
> Interesting this came up. I really need to rethink how to carry the
> stuff.
>
> The other thing is I think maybe a thing to do would be to dismount the
> bike ( quickly ) on whatever side the dog wasn't, and use it as a
> shield, possibly buying time to get the spray in hand. In both of my
> recent dog encounters, I couldn't have outrun the dog, so pedaling away
> wasn't an option, I might as well stop.
>
> I'm considering a velro pad on my jacket front and around the spray can.
> I'll stick the can to my chest area or shoulder or sleeve.
>
> jim d

I'll bet that if you STOP pedaling, point your finger at the dog and
scream NO as loudly as you can, it'll have the same effect as the
pepper spray would.

Failing that you could shoot the owner, kidnap the dog and take it
home with you. Then, when you go for a ride, Fido will be safe and
comfortable, snoozing in your house.

Let me know how this works out. :-)

Lewis.

*****

[Jim]

>
> I'll bet that if you STOP pedaling, point your finger at the dog and
> scream NO as loudly as you can, it'll have the same effect as the
> pepper spray would.
>
> Failing that you could shoot the owner, kidnap the dog and take it
> home with you. Then, when you go for a ride, Fido will be safe and
> comfortable, snoozing in your house.
>
> Let me know how this works out. :-)
>
> Lewis.
>
> *****


I'll be out again today, so who knows.... maybe there will be another
story to tell :)

Seriously tho, there seems a trend here ( rural Ohio ) for people to
keep meaner and meaner dogs, and not have them chained all the time. We
do have a leash law here, for what that's worth. I guess it's something,
in that if I do spray, or shoot, a dog that's latched on my foot, there
is the legal point that it shouldn't have been in the road.

My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.

Oh, well, that's in the past, let it go. Today is a beautiful day
considering the time of year, so I'm headed out biking.


jim d

[slide]

Steve Sr. wrote:
>
> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
> still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
> bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
> spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
> dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
> getting pepper sprayed.
>

These foul animals get all too easily into a killing rage. If your area
is a tyranny preventing you from going armed, then this is the next best
thing:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QEB0F4/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Remember, if you don't stop the damn thing, you are setting up the next
rider for an attack. That rider could be a 10 year old girl who'll be
killed or maimed by the animal.

[Tom Sherman[_3_]]

Jim ? wrote:
>> I'll bet that if you STOP pedaling, point your finger at the dog and
>> scream NO as loudly as you can, it'll have the same effect as the
>> pepper spray would.
>>
>> Failing that you could shoot the owner, kidnap the dog and take it
>> home with you. Then, when you go for a ride, Fido will be safe and
>> comfortable, snoozing in your house.
>>
>> Let me know how this works out. :-)
>>
>> Lewis.
>>
>> *****
>
>
> I'll be out again today, so who knows.... maybe there will be another
> story to tell :)
>
> Seriously tho, there seems a trend here ( rural Ohio ) for people to
> keep meaner and meaner dogs, and not have them chained all the time. We
> do have a leash law here, for what that's worth. I guess it's something,
> in that if I do spray, or shoot, a dog that's latched on my foot, there
> is the legal point that it shouldn't have been in the road.
>
> My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
> summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
> down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
> stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
> having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]

Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Keiron[_2_]]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to ride
> off some of the excess!
>
> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket and
> taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>
> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is immediately
> accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer suggestions as to
> holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>
>
> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet still
> continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit bull
> who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper spray but
> will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this dog is smart
> enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep getting pepper
> sprayed.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
luck.

[Tom Sherman[_3_]]

Keiron wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to ride
>> off some of the excess!
>>
>> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
>> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
>> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
>> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket and
>> taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>>
>> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
>> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is immediately
>> accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer suggestions as to
>> holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>>
>>
>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet still
>> continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit bull
>> who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper spray but
>> will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this dog is smart
>> enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep getting pepper
>> sprayed.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>
> Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
> chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
> unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
> make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
> can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
> Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
> found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
> luck.

Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
about their dog, they will likely back off.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[Tosspot[_2_]]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Keiron wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to ride
>>> off some of the excess!
>>>
>>> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
>>> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
>>> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
>>> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket and
>>> taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>>>
>>> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
>>> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is immediately
>>> accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer suggestions as to
>>> holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet still
>>> continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit bull
>>> who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper spray but
>>> will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this dog is smart
>>> enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep getting pepper
>>> sprayed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
>> chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it
>> occurs, unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds
>> awful and make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it
>> repeatedly!) cos it can be trouble with the law but often you'll get
>> benefit of the doubt. Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no
>> offence to anyone but I've found owners of vicious dogs often have
>> quite a bite themselves. Good luck.
>
> Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
> areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
> they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
> cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
> about their dog, they will likely back off.

When all else fails, one of these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULk64qwEVoo

Should explain to man and dog the current balance of power.

[[email protected]]

In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:

> Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
> areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
> they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
> cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
> about their dog, they will likely back off.

First of all, I second the recommendations to get animal control
involved in this case. The bitch is a repeat offender.
It may be true that the owner would have a firearm at the ready, but
somehow I doubt they'd be fool enough to use it, especially if you
immediately remind them that people go to prison for shooting people.
Amid all the discussion of how to use pepper spray, I have not heard
anyone mention what kind/brand of the stuff they are using, nor where
it's available. I'm the world's worst shopper, and I have never seen
this kind of stuff in a store. I'd probably buy some if I knew what to
look for and where.

Bill

__o | Every person takes the limits of their own field
_`\(,_ | of vision for the limits of the world.
(_)/ (_) | - Arthur Schopenhauer

[Tom Sherman[_3_]]

wrote:
> In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>
>> Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
>> areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
>> they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
>> cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
>> about their dog, they will likely back off.
>
> First of all, I second the recommendations to get animal control
> involved in this case. The bitch is a repeat offender.
> It may be true that the owner would have a firearm at the ready, but
> somehow I doubt they'd be fool enough to use it, especially if you
> immediately remind them that people go to prison for shooting people.

Here in Wisconsin, I have had people fire warning shots over my head,
for merely riding by on a public road. There are also people who come to
the door carrying a gun if you knock on it.

> Amid all the discussion of how to use pepper spray, I have not heard
> anyone mention what kind/brand of the stuff they are using, nor where
> it's available. I'm the world's worst shopper, and I have never seen
> this kind of stuff in a store. I'd probably buy some if I knew what to
> look for and where.
>
Halt™ pepper spray:
<http://www.google.com/products?q=halt+dog+spray&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd>.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.

[PatTX[_2_]]

One of the guys who rides with me has a pepper spray wristband with the
canister on it with velcro. Maybe that's what you need.

Pat in TX

[PatTX[_2_]]

I got mine at the local bicycle shop. I believe it is Halt brand.

[Tim McNamara]

In article >, slide >
wrote:

> Steve Sr. wrote:
> >
> > Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
> > blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
> > still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
> > bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
> > spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
> > dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
> > getting pepper sprayed.
> >
>
> These foul animals get all too easily into a killing rage. If your area
> is a tyranny preventing you from going armed, then this is the next best
> thing:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QEB0F4/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me
> =&seller=
>
> Remember, if you don't stop the damn thing, you are setting up the next
> rider for an attack. That rider could be a 10 year old girl who'll be
> killed or maimed by the animal.

The "Dog Dazer" linked to that page might be a more humane choice,
assuming it works.

[Tom Sherman[_3_]]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> In article >, slide >
> wrote:
>
>> Steve Sr. wrote:
>>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
>>> still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
>>> bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
>>> spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
>>> dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
>>> getting pepper sprayed.
>>>
>> These foul animals get all too easily into a killing rage. If your area
>> is a tyranny preventing you from going armed, then this is the next best
>> thing:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QEB0F4/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me
>> =&seller=
>>
>> Remember, if you don't stop the damn thing, you are setting up the next
>> rider for an attack. That rider could be a 10 year old girl who'll be
>> killed or maimed by the animal.
>
> The "Dog Dazer" linked to that page might be a more humane choice,
> assuming it works.

Pepper spray does not long term harm to the dog, unlike say a squirt gun
with a bleach solution.

A have used a Dog Dazer™, and some dogs turn around like they received
an electric shock, while others ignore the sound.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the
precipitate. - Anon?

[Steve Sr.]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:15:54 -0600, "PatTX" >
wrote:

>
>: Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>:: blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
>:: still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female
>:: pit bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the
>:: pepper spray but will come back for more the next day.
>:: Unfortunately, this dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic
>:: yet dumb enough keep getting pepper sprayed.
>
>Steve, this dog needs to be reported to the authorities. It is just a matter
>of time before someone gets mauled.
>
This dog has been reported to the Authorities on multiple occasions.
Animal Control is totally toothless. All they can do is give the owner
a citation. I suspect that only after someone is seriously injured
will they take further action.


Steve

[Steve Sr.]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:30:31 -0600, Tim McNamara
> wrote:

>In article >, slide >
>wrote:
>
>> Steve Sr. wrote:
>> >
>> > Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>> > blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
>> > still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
>> > bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
>> > spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
>> > dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
>> > getting pepper sprayed.
>> >
>>
>> These foul animals get all too easily into a killing rage. If your area
>> is a tyranny preventing you from going armed, then this is the next best
>> thing:
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QEB0F4/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me
>> =&seller=
>>
>> Remember, if you don't stop the damn thing, you are setting up the next
>> rider for an attack. That rider could be a 10 year old girl who'll be
>> killed or maimed by the animal.
>
>The "Dog Dazer" linked to that page might be a more humane choice,
>assuming it works.

The Dog Dazer doesn't work reliably. Been there... Done that... Got
the tee-shirt.


Steve

[Steve Sr.]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:16:27 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

>In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman > wrote:
>
>> Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
>> areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
>> they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
>> cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
>> about their dog, they will likely back off.
>
> First of all, I second the recommendations to get animal control
>involved in this case. The bitch is a repeat offender.
> It may be true that the owner would have a firearm at the ready, but
>somehow I doubt they'd be fool enough to use it, especially if you
>immediately remind them that people go to prison for shooting people.
> Amid all the discussion of how to use pepper spray, I have not heard
>anyone mention what kind/brand of the stuff they are using, nor where
>it's available. I'm the world's worst shopper, and I have never seen
>this kind of stuff in a store. I'd probably buy some if I knew what to
>look for and where.
>
>Bill
>
Halt! is the brand that I am using. It is the same as used by the
postal service for the past 30 years. Some LBSs may carry it. I bought
mine on the internet for about $5 per can plus shipping.

You can also buy more powerful stuff aimed at personal protection but
I found it is about 3 times the price. In North Carolina it is
available at license plate agencies or gun shops.

Steve

[Steve Sr.]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:21 GMT, Keiron > wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to ride
>> off some of the excess!
>>
>> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
>> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
>> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
>> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket and
>> taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>>
>> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
>> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is immediately
>> accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer suggestions as to
>> holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>>
>>
>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet still
>> continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit bull
>> who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper spray but
>> will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this dog is smart
>> enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep getting pepper
>> sprayed.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>
>Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
>chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
>unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
>make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
>can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
>Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
>found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
>luck.

Nice thought but this dog is smart enough to stay just out of reach.
Plus it is exceedingly dangerous to try to play polo with a dog while
on a moving bicycle.

Steve

[jim d]

> > My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
> > summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
> > down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
> > stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
> > having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]
>
> Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.



Yep.

Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.


back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
lever and cable.



jim d

[Dan O]

On Nov 29, 9:04 pm, jim d > wrote:
> > > My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
> > > summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
> > > down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
> > > stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
> > > having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]
>
> > Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.
>
> Yep.
>
> Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
> about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
> It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
> again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
> a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
> couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.
>
> back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
> Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
> really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
> is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
> lever and cable.
>
> jim d

For some reason, I like to name all the various segments of my commute
route: "The Day Walk" (Byrds song title, and a stretch of road not
unlike some that I have walked that take a significant part of the
day), "It's good to be alive stretch" (a stretch of road adjacent to
something that stinks so bad one can only breath deeply and say to
oneself, "it's good to be alive" :-), "Stair-step hill" (two climbs
with a brief flat interlude), "Sheep hill", a hill adjacent to a field
where two lambs and mother ewe used to live), and (drum roll,
please)... "Dog hill", where a pair of big dogs always hear me coming
up the hill, start barking to let each other know, and head for the
road to intercept me at the top. One of the dogs - a blond color, and
apparently a little older (and wiser) than the other - stops at the
road - or rather, turns and chases me along the road but staying in
the field. The other - a dark colored dog - apparently younger (and a
frickin' idiot), runs right out into the road and chases me down.
He's never actually made contact, but gets right up there.

I usually try to get by as fast as I can; and if my mojo's working I
can zoom past without giving them much chance to nip at my heels. I
also employ my usual dog language, cheerfully saying "Hi,
pooch" (sometimes followed by, "good dog"), which almost always has
the effect of changing any dog's barking tone from "I'm gonna get you"
to "Oh... well, hello to you, too. No offense, this barking and
chasing business is just my job, you know."

This black dog at Dog Hill, though - he's truly an irredeemable
idiot. So one day I'm comin' up the hill, I hear them barking, I
*also* hear cars coming behind me and toward me (multiple cars). This
is a rural connecting road w/ 55 mph speed limit. Here comes blacky
as I try to srpint by, here comes oncoming cars, and blacky runs right
out and "wham!"... bounces off the bumper of this econobox car - with
an earnest yelping, he runs up the driveway and under the porch...

I stop and walk my bike up the driveway to the porch, calling, "Hi,
pooch - it's okay". The blonde dog (and then an even older one that
can't be bothered and/or knows better than to join the chase) come out
and sort of challenge my presence, but jeez, I'm saying "Hi, pooch",
so what are they gonna do, anyway.

I knock on the house door, but nobody home. (Assholes!! Way to treat
your dogs!)

After that I ride by every day, *hoping* for blacky to give chase (how
ironic is that). Eventually... there he is :-) - barking and chasing,
but this time he stays in the field with his partner. ;-)

After a while, though, I don't see blacky anymore. Don't know for
sure, but suspect he didn't learn well enough the first time :-(

This story kind of makes me sound like a dog sympathizer; and while I
do love all animals (being one myself), I also had a stint working in
a local health department where (among other things) I occasionally
took dog bite reports. They're always "a good dog", yet it seems that
any of them are capable of ripping a kid's face off in the right/wrong
circumstances. So I definitely believe that anyone responsible for a
dog had better be.. um, *very* responsible.

And if one comes after you, it may be a shame (and the "owner's"
fault), but do whatever you have to do.

[Dan O]

On Nov 29, 9:43 pm, Dan O > wrote:
> On Nov 29, 9:04 pm, jim d > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > My wife witnessed a neighbor lady get nastily mauled by a dog this
> > > > summer. In that case I went out, and like you say, sorta stared the dog
> > > > down. It circled and snarled, but didn't come after me as long as I
> > > > stayed looking at it. That ended with the police taking the dog and
> > > > having it put down. It had attacked someone once before.[...]
>
> > > Substitute "owner" for "dog" and the outcome would have been better.
>
> > Yep.
>
> > Today we rode past the sight of thursdays attack. The big mean dog (
> > about a 100 lbs or so ) was there, tied by a long chain to a dog house.
> > It seemed very agitated and would have, if it could, gone after brother
> > again. It ignored me. Humm.... ? The color of his bike maybe ? It's
> > a bright red. Or something. In any case, we were quite happy it
> > couldn't drag the doghouse, although it was trying.
>
> > back to the original topic, I was ready with my can of HALT this time.
> > Had it in my hand. It's possible to ride that way, carrying it, but not
> > really the best idea. I am keeping it on a velcro strap. The velcro loop
> > is duct taped to the can and then looped around / over my right brake
> > lever and cable.
>
> > jim d
>
> For some reason, I like to name all the various segments of my commute
> route: "The Day Walk" (Byrds song title, and a stretch of road not
> unlike some that I have walked that take a significant part of the
> day), "It's good to be alive stretch" (a stretch of road adjacent to
> something that stinks so bad one can only breath deeply and say to
> oneself, "it's good to be alive" :-), "Stair-step hill" (two climbs
> with a brief flat interlude), "Sheep hill", a hill adjacent to a field
> where two lambs and mother ewe used to live), and (drum roll,
> please)... "Dog hill", where a pair of big dogs always hear me coming
> up the hill, start barking to let each other know, and head for the
> road to intercept me at the top. One of the dogs - a blond color, and
> apparently a little older (and wiser) than the other - stops at the
> road - or rather, turns and chases me along the road but staying in
> the field. The other - a dark colored dog - apparently younger (and a
> frickin' idiot), runs right out into the road and chases me down.
> He's never actually made contact, but gets right up there.
>
> I usually try to get by as fast as I can; and if my mojo's working I
> can zoom past without giving them much chance to nip at my heels. I
> also employ my usual dog language, cheerfully saying "Hi,
> pooch" (sometimes followed by, "good dog")...

(Replying to own post :-)

Let me qualify that: When blacky gets right on my heels, I don't say,
"Hi pooch" or "good dog". Then I say, "F**k off!"

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
Luigi de Guzman > writes:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:56:14 -0800, Tom Keats wrote:
>
>>
>> Pepper spray isn't the only weapon in the arsenal. But weapons are to be
>> invoked only after reasonable means & enticements have been shown to be
>> ineffective.
>>
>> Nothing gets a dog all distracted & obsessed like peanut butter. Or in
>> some cases, ice cream. But it's usually logistically difficult to pack
>> defensive ice cream on a bicycle.
>>
>
> By dropping treats from a bicycle, aren't you training the dog to chase
> other cyclists? The dog chases a cyclist. The dog gets a treat. Surely
> after enough positive reinforcement, the dog learns a new trick.

No, that's not how it works. Dogs identify and recognize
the individual. So do the crows to whom I feed tidbits
during my lunchtime at work.

They don't know cyclists-in-general from a hole in the ground.

Frankly, I don't think pepper spray is as effective on
canines/lupines as it is on other mammals. Bear Spray
isn't necessarily Dog Spray. In fact, it isn't necessarily
very effective Bear Spray.

Predatory critters such as canines, lupines, ursines and
felines have an amazing capacity to clear their olfactory
stuff, thereby being better enabled to scent their
respective dinners.

What they /don't/ want is having strong scents stuck onto
them, like sulphurous skunk spray. It gives away their
stalking positions to their prey. That's why dogs
(especially sporting dogs) like to roll around in icky
stuff -- it helps them to blend in with the environment,
as well as masking the carnivore scent that all dogs carry.

The worst thing to do to a predatory critter is to put
a hard-to-remove, unnatural scent on them. That's why
some domestic cats are so touchy about who pets them.
If you're a smoker, you're persona non grata to many
cats.

Pepper spray doesn't necessariy work on animules like
it does on people.

What's with this reliance on pepper spray as if it's
the ultimate repellant for /everything/, anyways?

A good bear spray is that which a skunk produces.
Bears leave skunks alone, and for good reason.
And skunks don't shoot papain, they shoot horribly
sulphurous compounds that linger until the bear
takes a tomato juice bath.

Skunk juice might be hard to procure, but all that
stinky, sneezy stuff at the cosmetics counter when
you walk into a department store is readily available.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

[Keiron[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:11:25 -0600, Tom Sherman wrote:

> Keiron wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to
>>> ride off some of the excess!
>>>
>>> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
>>> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
>>> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
>>> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket
>>> and taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>>>
>>> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
>>> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is
>>> immediately accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer
>>> suggestions as to holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
>>> still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
>>> bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
>>> spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
>>> dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
>>> getting pepper sprayed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
>> chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it
>> occurs, unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds
>> awful and make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it
>> repeatedly!) cos it can be trouble with the law but often you'll get
>> benefit of the doubt. Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no
>> offence to anyone but I've found owners of vicious dogs often have
>> quite a bite themselves. Good luck.
>
> Be aware that in the US, unlike the UK, the owner of mean dogs in rural
> areas will almost always have a loaded firearm near to hand. Similarly,
> they will also have a motor vehicle that could be used against a
> cyclist. However, if you tell them you have already called the cops
> about their dog, they will likely back off.

Land of the Free brother, land of the free. Would you have it any other
way?

[Keiron[_2_]]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:56:59 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:49:21 GMT, Keiron > wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:34:19 -0500, Steve Sr. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I hope that all of you had a happy Thanksgiving and got a chance to
>>> ride off some of the excess!
>>>
>>> Do any of you have any suggestions on a good way to carry pepper spray
>>> to be used against vicious canines? I have recently started carrying
>>> some to use against a problem dog on my lunch time ride. Since I know
>>> where the dog is I have been carrying the pepper spray in my pocket
>>> and taking it out before I get to where the dog might be loose.
>>>
>>> Carrying the pepper spray in a pocket is not a good place if traveling
>>> in unfamiliar areas. It needs to be carried somewhere it is
>>> immediately accessible near the handlebars. Can any of you offer
>>> suggestions as to holsters or other methods of carrying pepper spray.
>>>
>>>
>>> Next question... What do you do about a dog that has been hit point
>>> blank with pepper spray about 3-4 times by myself or co-worker yet
>>> still continues to try to attack the next day? The dog is a female pit
>>> bull who immediately breaks off the attack when hit with the pepper
>>> spray but will come back for more the next day. Unfortunately, this
>>> dog is smart enough not to get hit by traffic yet dumb enough keep
>>> getting pepper sprayed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>Not exactly what you're asking for but if you're not the slightest of
>>chaps I honestly recommend slowing down before the area which it occurs,
>>unclip the dog-side leg and give the blighter a boot, sounds awful and
>>make sure it's defensive (don't chase it and boot it repeatedly!) cos it
>>can be trouble with the law but often you'll get benefit of the doubt.
>>Also helps if the owner's not in sight: no offence to anyone but I've
>>found owners of vicious dogs often have quite a bite themselves. Good
>>luck.
>
> Nice thought but this dog is smart enough to stay just out of reach.
> Plus it is exceedingly dangerous to try to play polo with a dog while on
> a moving bicycle.
>
> Steve

Didn't say it was flawless :) Although you do bring a polo mallet in to
the picture, strap that bad-boy to the downtube, tally ho!

[PatTX[_2_]]

:::
::: Steve, this dog needs to be reported to the authorities. It is just
::: a matter of time before someone gets mauled.
:::
:: This dog has been reported to the Authorities on multiple occasions.
:: Animal Control is totally toothless. All they can do is give the
:: owner a citation. I suspect that only after someone is seriously
:: injured will they take further action.
::
::
:: Steve

Is there not a law that after a certain number of citations something else
is done? Or that the second citation carries a substantial fine and the
third citation doubles that, etc? I doubt if they would be "toothless" if
you complained to the mayor or your councilman.

Pat in TX

[ZBicyclist]

Tom Keats wrote:
>
> I have a strong hunch that scents like Chanel No 5
> or Revlon's "Charlie" would be more effective than
> pepper spray for repelling canines. I figure animules
> who like to roll around in manure & rotten fish guts
> must absolutely hate to smell pretty -- such predatory
> techniques as smelling pretty seem to work only for
> human females.

I like this idea better than the skunk scent idea. If I'm going to
go home after spilling something on me, I'd rather it be perfume
than skunk scent.

Actually, as a married man I'm not quite sure about that. If I try
this, I'd better do full disclosure ahead of time ;)

There are a lot of perfumes cheaper than Chanel #5 -- I'm thinking
Wal-mart, not Nordstrom's.

But does it work?????

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Nov 30, 12:43*am, Dan O > wrote:
>... "Dog hill", where a pair of big dogs always hear me coming
> up the hill, start barking to let each other know, and head for the
> road to intercept me at the top. *One of the dogs - a blond color, and
> apparently a little older (and wiser) than the other - stops at the
> road - or rather, turns and chases me along the road but staying in
> the field. *The other - a dark colored dog - apparently younger (and a
> frickin' idiot), runs right out into the road and chases me down.
> He's never actually made contact, but gets right up there.
>
> I usually try to get by as fast as I can; and if my mojo's working I
> can zoom past without giving them much chance to nip at my heels. *I
> also employ my usual dog language, cheerfully saying "Hi,
> pooch" (sometimes followed by, "good dog"), which almost always has
> the effect of changing any dog's barking tone from "I'm gonna get you"
> to "Oh... well, hello to you, too. *No offense, this barking and
> chasing business is just my job, you know."

I would never put up with that.

A dog chasing you, even for "sport," is dangerous - and I don't use
that word lightly. I've had friends who were injured by dogs that got
in front of them. Even if you feel you can handle it, there are other
cyclists who may get seriously injured, if not by the dog itself, then
by trying to evade the dog when there are cars around. And of course,
as your story illustrated, it's dangerous for the dog.

What I've done is such situations is train the dog. Usually, all it
takes is confronting the dog repeatedly and making it understand that
the road is my territory, not the dog's territory. I begin this by
not riding on, but instead circling around and staring the dog down
until it's staying away from me. Sometimes I've backed that up with
repeated sprays of Halt. In extreme cases (mostly in rural Georgia) I
threw rocks at the dogs. But most importantly, I'd repeat the lesson
as needed, even taking pains to ride by that dog several days in a row
until it knows to behave.

In my case, I was most concerned that my wife or kids might get hurt
by the dog. But in any case, I won't put up with a dog that endangers
me, or other cyclists.

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Nov 30, 12:46*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
>
> Frankly, I don't think pepper spray is as effective on
> canines/lupines as it is on other mammals.

I've used it with great success on many, many dogs over the years.

It doesn't work on all of them, but I'd say it works on well over 95%
of them. The main problem is that you must be a good shot. Getting
it near the dog does nothing; you must get it in the nose, mouth or
eyes.

- Frank Krygowski