So when do you replace your steel frame with an aluminum &/or carbonone?

[[email protected]]

For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
friction shifting. In the past few years it has started to become
somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. Chainrings in the
144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. And
it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
freewheel.

Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.

Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
when you purchase it separately from the bike. When you buy a bike,
in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.

How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
type, not a racer.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 12, 9:17 am, wrote:
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>
> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

I sometimes ask myself questions like this, too.

The thing is, if an exotic frame will make you better looking, make
you FASTER, make your bike more reliable, I'd say YES, go for it.

Otherwise I'd just keep enjoying that reliable steel steed.

Lewis.

*****

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Dec 12, 10:17*am, wrote:
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. *In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. *For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. *Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. *And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>
> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. *When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? *And do I really want to keep riding it? *Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? *I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

What year is the bike? I'm surprised you have that much trouble
getting replacement parts. There are millions of bikes out there
running similar components. I'd think a competent bike shop could
find a replacement for the bottom bracket (for example) pretty
easily. Chainrings might be more difficult, but IME they last many,
many miles. I'd consider watching E-Bay or rec.bicycles.marketplace
once I determined replacement was on the horizon. Freewheels are
getting a bit rare, but they're still available.

In any case, I doubt that "much lighter" is necessarily much better.
Sure, it helps on uphills, but only by the percentage reduction in
_total_ weight.

I think two notable improvements in modern bikes are freehubs vs.
freewheels, and index shifting. I think the rest (like newer crank &
bottom bracket schemes, dual-pivot brakes, threadless headsets, magic
frame materials) are of negligible benefit for most riders. But even
freehubs and index shifting have gone crazy, with the assumption that
you have to buy 10 cog hubs and integrated brake/shifters.

If you feel you must upgrade, I'd check into doing a minimal upgrade.
Keep all the parts you can. Work with a competent shop, one that
appreciates your classic.

Or you could check with Rivendell, http://www.rivbike.com/ and
Bicycle Quarterly (formerly Vintage Bicycle Quarterly) at
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/vbqindex.html (Rivendell sells
freewheels, for example.)

Read their web sites, subscribe to their publications. They'll help
you see that what you have is just fine, and in fact maybe better than
what you crave.

- Frank Krygowski

[SMS]

wrote:

> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

You probably should replace the Paramount with a Surly Long Haul
Trucker. If you're a long distance tourist you probably wouldn't buy
anything with an aluminum frame, and certainly you wouldn't buy anything
with a carbon fiber frame.

[Will]

SMS wrote:

> You probably should replace the Paramount with a Surly Long Haul
> Trucker.

Why would you replace Columbus steel with 4130?

Seems to me the answer is to start collecting parts... so you have
spares sitting in the garage. Or, if pressed for time... email the
folks at YellowJersey.org. It's a local shop for me... but they do a
lot of web business and they have an amazing inventory of older,
vintage stuff. Or, visit Sheldon's web pages to find modern analogs
for older parts. Or call Peter White. That's probably the easiest
thing to do...

[mark]

Your Phil Wood bottom bracket should last quite a while, although
Campagnolo still makes and sells bottom brackets in Italian and English
threading.

If your frame has 126 mm rear dropout spacing, a good bike shop can
easily cold set the rear triangle to 130 mm, which will let you run
modern cassette hubs. Or you could do what I did, just use a little
muscle to get the hub into the dropouts. With careful positioning and
cable adjustment your shifters and derailleurs can be made to shift
across the full range of an 8 or 9 speed cassette. If the old Super
Record derailleur wears out, a modern derailleur will work just fine
with friction shifting. Friction shift levers are available from
Rivendell if you feel the need for a new set.

A modern set of dual pivot brakes will stop your bike a whole lot faster
than the old Campy single pivot sidepull brakes ever did.

The frame is a small part of a bike's total weight, and modern frames
aren't *that* much lighter unless you make some compromises in
durability. Steel frames (and even lugged steel frames) are still being
made, and people are still riding them. Even if you do get a new bike
with "modern" frame materials and components, I don't think it'll be too
much improvement over your Paramount.

mark

wrote:
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>
> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.
>

[landotter]

On Dec 12, 11:25*am, SMS > wrote:
> wrote:
> > How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> > anyway? *And do I really want to keep riding it? *Are exotic-materials
> > frames THAT much lighter and better? *I'm a long-distance tourist
> > type, not a racer.
>
> You probably should replace the Paramount with a Surly Long Haul
> Trucker. If you're a long distance tourist you probably wouldn't buy
> anything with an aluminum frame.

Bull****. Stop it with the bull**** memes. You like the look of small
tubes and the thing rides nice and fits, get it, if you like the big
tubes and the aluminum bike rides good, get it. On a budget--cheaper
aluminum bikes are going to carry heavier loads on average with less
flexing about. Not saying they'll weigh any less. And if they break,
sit tight and order a replacement for $199 from Nashbar! hahahahaa!

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> wrote in message
...
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>
> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing grippe on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

Whether you should replace your old bike or not isn't something anybody
but you can determine. And to determine that, you need to ride one of
the bikes you might be interested in, and see if there's something about
it that will make you want to ride more. Something about the way it
rides or even looks.

I could get into the various things that might have improved in the past
18 years, but you know, my priorities will be different than yours, and
the things that I like about a particular bike are just that... things
*I* like.

So go to your local shop and ride a couple. See if there's something
about a new bike that excites you, something it offers that's different
from your old machine, something that might keep you putting on the
miles for the next 18 years.

But don't let someone else tell you what you don't need (or what you
do).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

[[email protected]]

Right, I'm running an 8-speed freewheel on a long axle. I've got the
wheel spaced 'way over, and I do have to muscle it into the frame.

The only 8-speed freewheel I've been able to find is a SunRacer which,
IMHO, is not a very high quality item.

Also, the Super Record crankset only goes down to a 42, or maybe a 41,
chainring. It would be nice to have a 39 like everybody else. Then I
could probably use a smaller, lighter freewheel, too.

But I don't want to go inventing reasons to buy a new bike when I
really don't need to.

[John Thompson]

On 2008-12-12, > wrote:

> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting.

I'm still riding my Super Record equiped bike from 1979.

> In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood.

Super Record bottom brackets are abundant on eBay, and unless you need a
"Pista" (read: "fashionable") version they can often be had at quite
reasonable prices.

> Chainrings in the 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and
> cost $60 a pop.

Once again, eBay can get you these at good prices, particularly if you
don't mind a 2nd tier brand like Ofmega, Galli, Gipiemme, etc.

> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

A good steel bike, well maintained should be able to last a lifetime.
I'm not convinced that that the modern Al and carbon fiber frames will
last that long, though.

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[John Thompson]

On 2008-12-12, Frank Krygowski > wrote:

> I think two notable improvements in modern bikes are freehubs vs.
> freewheels, and index shifting.

I'd take clipless pedals over indexed shifting if I had to choose.

> I think the rest (like newer crank & bottom bracket schemes,
> dual-pivot brakes, threadless headsets, magic
> frame materials) are of negligible benefit for most riders.

Agreed.

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[John Thompson]

On 2008-12-12, Will > wrote:

>> You probably should replace the Paramount with a Surly Long Haul
>> Trucker.

> Why would you replace Columbus steel with 4130?

Columbus steel *IS* 4130 (chrome-moly). :-)

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[John Thompson]

On 2008-12-12, mark > wrote:

> A modern set of dual pivot brakes will stop your bike a whole lot faster
> than the old Campy single pivot sidepull brakes ever did.

I haven't noticed that much. Put a new set of pads and cables in those
old Campy brakes and you probably couldn't tell them apart in a blind test.

> Steel frames (and even lugged steel frames) are still being
> made, and people are still riding them. Even if you do get a new bike
> with "modern" frame materials and components, I don't think it'll be too
> much improvement over your Paramount.

And a *GOOD* steel frame -- like that Paramount -- will likely still be
nicer than a cheap Al or carbon frame.

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[news.suddenlink.net]

> wrote in message
...
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>
> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.
>

Buying a complete bike is the easy way, and is the right decision if you're
not a good bike mechanic. It's a package deal compromise, allowing someone
else to make your choices for you, but at least everything works.

I replaced the group on my Austro-Daimler with modern components and
respaced the rear to 130mm. Shopping patiently online, I was able to find
very good parts deals.
My Waterford, LHT, and Litespeed were purchased as frames. I prefer to
choose which individual parts go on each frame. This gives me the ability
to assign a purpose to each bike and maximize my riding pleasure.
Shopping on e-Bay and with on-line retailers makes the price competitive
with a complete bike without depending on strangers to choose your parts for
you.

btw: I completely restored a P-13 and customized/updated a P-15 for
relatives last year. I didn't have much trouble finding serviceable parts
on e-bay for the P-13. I set up a couple of favorite searches for parts
that weren't immediately offered and had everything I needed in less than a
month. I built a 1973 World Voyageur with modern 9s lightly used components
and it rode like a Cadillac. If you part it out, you can get nice prices
for your Paramount. Many of us still appreciate the old steel bikes.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

"landotter" wrote:
> On Dec 12, 11:25 am, SMS > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
>>> anyway? And do I really want to keep riding it? Are exotic-materials
>>> frames THAT much lighter and better? I'm a long-distance tourist
>>> type, not a racer.
>> You probably should replace the Paramount with a Surly Long Haul
>> Trucker. If you're a long distance tourist you probably wouldn't buy
>> anything with an aluminum frame.
>
> Bull****. Stop it with the bull**** memes. You like the look of small
> tubes and the thing rides nice and fits, get it, if you like the big
> tubes and the aluminum bike rides good, get it. On a budget--cheaper
> aluminum bikes are going to carry heavier loads on average with less
> flexing about. Not saying they'll weigh any less. And if they break,
> sit tight and order a replacement for $199 from Nashbar! hahahahaa!

Scharf is correct - an aluminium frame would be a poor choice. Hold out
for an aluminium alloy frame with proper post welding heat treatment.

Fortunately, several million relatively high quality TIG welded
aluminium alloy, post weld heat treated frames are available each year
at a reasonable cost at the retail level.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Mark Felber wrote:
> [...]
> A modern set of dual pivot brakes will stop your bike a whole lot faster
> than the old Campy single pivot sidepull brakes ever did.
> [...]

How so? With any decent brake pads and cables, the front Campy single
pivot will allow the rider to lift the rear wheel, which is the limit of
usable braking power on an upright bicycle.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[[email protected]]

On Dec 12, 9:17*am, wrote:
> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? *And do I really want to keep riding it? *Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? *I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

If you are a tourist, and you aren't a credit card tourist,
what does having a lighter frame give you? You're still
carrying a lot of gear.

For groupsets, ebay + local craigslist (depending on the area)
can help you build one, even if it might be a tad mismatched
(who cares if the brakes aren't the same as the shifters /
derailers?).

As for steel frames, I have an early 80s Schwinn frame. It
isn't the highest quality, but I've basically managed to
replace every part on it either through it being worn out,
wanting a different setup (triple instead of a double), it
didn't fit (seatpost - needed longer), or because it was
used, for sale, cheap, and higher quality (a few of the
LBS have used parts bins).

This is my first serious bike, and it has been fun
experimenting with different setups. Outside of the fork
and frame, I've managed to replace almost everything.
Haven't had a problem yet.

[news.suddenlink.net]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Felber wrote:
>> [...]
>> A modern set of dual pivot brakes will stop your bike a whole lot faster
>> than the old Campy single pivot sidepull brakes ever did.
>> [...]
>
> How so? With any decent brake pads and cables, the front Campy single
> pivot will allow the rider to lift the rear wheel, which is the limit of
> usable braking power on an upright bicycle.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

I agree dual pivots are a waste on the rear. I like dual pivot brakes on
the front and being able to lift the rear wheel with my hand on top of the
lever with one or two fingers.

[[email protected]]

Mark Felber wrote:

> Your Phil Wood bottom bracket should last quite a while, although
> Campagnolo still makes and sells bottom brackets in Italian and
> English threading.

> If your frame has 126 mm rear dropout spacing, a good bike shop can
> easily cold set the rear triangle to 130 mm, which will let you run
> modern cassette hubs. Or you could do what I did, just use a little
> muscle to get the hub into the dropouts. With careful positioning
> and cable adjustment your shifters and derailleurs can be made to
> shift across the full range of an 8 or 9 speed cassette. If the old
> Super Record derailleur wears out, a modern derailleur will work
> just fine with friction shifting. Friction shift levers are
> available from Rivendell if you feel the need for a new set.

> A modern set of dual pivot brakes will stop your bike a whole lot
> faster than the old Campy single pivot sidepull brakes ever did.

Only if you don't have the strength in index and middle finger to
achieve maximum deceleration with just the front brake. What other
magic feature, than a higher mechanical advantage, makes a dual pivot
brake stop faster? Dual pivot brakes arose for the same reason frame
fit pumps went away. Many riders don't have the strength to operate
them nor the skill to shift gears by reaching down to downtube levers.

Dual pivot brakes ave large cosine error on the left front brake pad,
as bad as an old Mafac or Weinmann centerpull caliper. This is not
getting better as the manufacturers pander to the feeble.

> The frame is a small part of a bike's total weight, and modern
> frames aren't *that* much lighter unless you make some compromises
> in durability. Steel frames (and even lugged steel frames) are
> still being made, and people are still riding them. Even if you do
> get a new bike with "modern" frame materials and components, I don't
> think it'll be too much improvement over your Paramount.

It's not the weight, but rather the image that is at stake here.
Steel is "Iron Age" antique material, carbon is modern.

WHAT! You ride steel. How retro can you get?

Jobst Brandt

[John Thompson]

On 2008-12-15, Tom Sherman > wrote:

> Fortunately, several million relatively high quality TIG welded
> aluminium alloy, post weld heat treated frames are available each year
> at a reasonable cost at the retail level.

Ok, but a generic, robot-welded Al frame has no soul. I'd stay with the
hand brazed Paramount...

--

John )
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Art Harris]

retroguy wrote:

> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. *
>

Only 18 years? And a Paramount?! I wouldn't think of scrapping that.

My "Palo Alto" Italian made Columbus SL frame is 24 years old and is
still my primary bike. I upgraded the drivetrain a few years ago to 9
speed. Modern drivetrains do shift smoother than the old stuff thanks
to all the ramps and pins that ease the chain onto the desired
sprocket. I'm sure your Paramount uses standard British thread so the
only (slight) issue with upgrading is spreading the rear dropouts.

I agree that each round of "gear escalation" gets a lot more
expensive, particularly the latest 11-speed stuff. We're now way past
the point of diminishing returns with respect to numbers of gears! I'm
glad I upgraded in the 9-speed era when prices were more reasonable.
I'm not sure what I would do now. Shimano still sells indexed downtube
and bar-end shifters for 9-speed which are more reliable than
brifters, and much less expensive. If (when?) my brifters crap out,
I'd probably go back to downtube shifters.


> In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. *For example, when it was time to replace the bottom
> bracket, the only one I could find was a Phil Wood. *Chainrings in the
> 144 mm. bolt pattern must be special-ordered and cost $60 a pop. *And
> it's hard to find a good selection of cogs for an old-fashioned
> freewheel.
>

Cassettes are definitely better than freewheels. You could build up a
new rear wheel with a cassette and your existing rim if it's still in
good shape.


> Of course, frames made of exotic materials are quite a bit lighter.
>
> Replacing the existing gruppo on my Paramount with something more
> modern seems out of the question because you pay so much for a gruppo
> when you purchase it separately from the bike. *When you buy a bike,
> in effect you get the gruppo pretty cheap.
>

Some of the mid-level Campy and Shimano groups are quite good and
won't break your budget. As a minumum, you'd need a freehub, cassette,
F & R Derailleurs, crank, BB, shifters, and chain. That would cost a
lot less than a complete new bike.

For those who look down their nose at your "retro" bike, tell them you
have the best of both worlds. And ask them how long they think their
bike will last. I'm amazed at how many riders get a new bike every 3
or 4 years just to have the newest fads.


> How much longer will it be feasible to keep riding a steel frame,
> anyway? *And do I really want to keep riding it? *Are exotic-materials
> frames THAT much lighter and better? *I'm a long-distance tourist
> type, not a racer.

You should be able to keep that bike going for a long time.
Traditional steel frames are still being produced and sold.

<http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/gallery.asp>

<http://waterfordbikes.com>

<http://www.somafab.com/smoothie.html>

<http://www.surlybikes.com/bikes.html>

As a long distance tourer you should be mostly concerned about
reliability. Bike weight as a percentage of the "bike + rider +
baggage" total is a pretty small number.

Art Harris

[[email protected]]

On Dec 12, 7:17*am, wrote:
> For the past 18 years I've been riding a Schwinn Paramount frame made
> from Columbus SLX tubing and with Campy Super Record components and
> friction shifting. *In the past few years it has started to become
> somewhat difficult to find parts for this bike because it is too old-
> fashioned. *
>

The cost of brifters, derailleurs, crankset, cassette, and rear hub
(or maybe rear wheel if you need to pay someone to build it up) would
be a few hundred bucks depending on what level of components you
choose, much less than the cost of a quality aluminum or carbon bike.
You really don't need a complete grouppo.

A complete Dura Ace groupset is $1000 (?) and a complete Campy Record
10 speed $1500 (?).

Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would dump a Schwinn Paramount
frameset in favor of a $1000 or $1500 new bike. But, of course, it's
your money, not mine.

Seriously, if you do it, sell the Paramount to me.

Tom