Dahon Folding Bike vs Friday Folding Bike

[[email protected]]

I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.

Thanks

Tom

[SMS]

wrote:
> I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
> trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
> folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
> folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
> two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
> would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.

Both companies have a wide range of models. Which Dahon were you looking at?

For example, for touring, the Dahon Speed TR at around $1040, is
comparable to the Bike Friday NW Tourist DD at $1780.

The Bike Friday is made in the U.S., the Dahon is made in China, which
accounts for a lot of the difference in cost.

Also look at the Novara Buzz FlyBy from REI,
"http://www.rei.com/product/763242" which is made by Dahon. Remember you
get a 10% dividend at REI.

If you buy a Dahon, check out "http://gaerlan.com" as he does some good
custom modifications to Dahon models.

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> wrote:
>> I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
>> trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
>> folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
>> folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
>> two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
>> would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.
>
> Both companies have a wide range of models. Which Dahon were you looking
> at?
>
> For example, for touring, the Dahon Speed TR at around $1040, is
> comparable to the Bike Friday NW Tourist DD at $1780.
>
> The Bike Friday is made in the U.S., the Dahon is made in China, which
> accounts for a lot of the difference in cost.[...]

Is there a good resource for determining the country of origin of
bicycles? I prefer to buy products made in democratic states with decent
wages (e.g. Japan, CE, US, Canada, Taiwan), even if the price is
substantially higher.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[cmcanulty]

Look at the Downtube folders, best bike for the price also go to the
folding forum on bikeforums.net

[SMS]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> Is there a good resource for determining the country of origin of
> bicycles? I prefer to buy products made in democratic states with decent
> wages (e.g. Japan, CE, US, Canada, Taiwan), even if the price is
> substantially higher.

The companies selling non made-in-China bicycles tend to boast about it,
but I don't think there's any source that shows the origin.

Of course China has become just as capitalistic as any of those other
countries, while the U.S., during the past eight years, has become more
and more un-democratic.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> wrote in message
...
>I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
> trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
> folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
> folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
> two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
> would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom

Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently, I can tell you
that they're very different animals. The Dahons just never quite seemed
like a finished product. Little things that wouldn't cost much to take
care of but never were, giving one the idea that they were more
concerned with saving a few pennies than quality. That said, the
difference in price is such that it would be crazy to think a Dahon
would be in the same league (in terms of quality) as a bike that costs
twice as much.

The ride is very different, with the Bike Friday feeling a lot more
stable laterally. For a smaller rider, this probably isn't a huge deal,
but it's quite noticable for bigger folk.

At 15 miles per day, I think you'd appreciate the differences. But the
best way to figure that out is to actually take them out and ride them.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
>> trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
>> folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
>> folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
>> two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
>> would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tom
>
> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,

When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?

> I can tell you
> that they're very different animals. The Dahons just never quite seemed
> like a finished product. Little things that wouldn't cost much to take
> care of but never were, giving one the idea that they were more
> concerned with saving a few pennies than quality. That said, the
> difference in price is such that it would be crazy to think a Dahon
> would be in the same league (in terms of quality) as a bike that costs
> twice as much.
>
> The ride is very different, with the Bike Friday feeling a lot more
> stable laterally. For a smaller rider, this probably isn't a huge deal,
> but it's quite noticable for bigger folk.
>
> At 15 miles per day, I think you'd appreciate the differences. But the
> best way to figure that out is to actually take them out and ride them.
>
Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do not
fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the Bromptom
or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,
>
> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?

Fairly recently. We came on board about two months ago, and have done
very well with them.

> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do
> not fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the
> Bromptom or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?

Probably, be the higher-end Bike Fridays are meant to mimic, as much as
possible, the ride qualities of a full-sized bike. The Brompton and
Dahon clearly do not try to accomplish that.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
>>> trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
>>> folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced
>>> Friday
>>> folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of
>>> the
>>> two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
>>> would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,
>
> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?
>
>> I can tell you that they're very different animals. The Dahons just
>> never quite seemed like a finished product. Little things that
>> wouldn't cost much to take care of but never were, giving one the
>> idea that they were more concerned with saving a few pennies than
>> quality. That said, the difference in price is such that it would be
>> crazy to think a Dahon would be in the same league (in terms of
>> quality) as a bike that costs twice as much.
>>
>> The ride is very different, with the Bike Friday feeling a lot more
>> stable laterally. For a smaller rider, this probably isn't a huge
>> deal, but it's quite noticable for bigger folk.
>>
>> At 15 miles per day, I think you'd appreciate the differences. But
>> the best way to figure that out is to actually take them out and ride
>> them.
>>
> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do
> not fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the
> Bromptom or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently, I can tell you
> that they're very different animals. The Dahons just never quite seemed
> like a finished product. Little things that wouldn't cost much to take
> care of but never were, giving one the idea that they were more
> concerned with saving a few pennies than quality. That said, the
> difference in price is such that it would be crazy to think a Dahon
> would be in the same league (in terms of quality) as a bike that costs
> twice as much.
>
> The ride is very different, with the Bike Friday feeling a lot more
> stable laterally. For a smaller rider, this probably isn't a huge deal,
> but it's quite noticable for bigger folk.
>
> At 15 miles per day, I think you'd appreciate the differences. But the
> best way to figure that out is to actually take them out and ride them.

How long ago were you selling Dahon? The Dahon's of today are very very
different than the Dahon's of even just five years ago, and a world
apart from the first Dahons.

Alas, you can spend as much on some Dahon models these days as a Bike
Friday. Did you stop by Dahon's booth at Interbike? They had a
carbon-fiber model for $3000. They also had their full size model with
the Ritchey frame.

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,
>> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?
>
> Fairly recently. We came on board about two months ago, and have done
> very well with them.
>
>> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do
>> not fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the
>> Bromptom or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?
>
> Probably, be the higher-end Bike Fridays are meant to mimic, as much as
> possible, the ride qualities of a full-sized bike. The Brompton and
> Dahon clearly do not try to accomplish that.

This Dahon does, "http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm".

[c]

SMS wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,
>>> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?
>>
>> Fairly recently. We came on board about two months ago, and have done
>> very well with them.
>>
>>> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do
>>> not fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the
>>> Bromptom or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?
>>
>> Probably, be the higher-end Bike Fridays are meant to mimic, as much
>> as possible, the ride qualities of a full-sized bike. The Brompton and
>> Dahon clearly do not try to accomplish that.
>
> This Dahon does, "http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm".


I tried to buy one of these Tournados in France, but here it is unknown.
Near the borders, I also tried in Spain and in the UK and some vendors
said me that is no more produced. What a pity!

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 8:06*pm, Tom Sherman <
> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do not
> fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the Bromptom
> or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?

My wife and I have Bike Friday New World Tourists. Yes, the folding
is slower and more finicky than most other folding bikes I've tested.

NWTs are available with dozens of options, since each is custom built,
so details vary. But there are two "issues" that slightly irritate me
with folding our particular bikes:

First, the design intent is that the tall seatmast should fold forward
and slightly rightward, with the saddle clearing the headset. Mine
doesn't go far enough right, so I just pull the seatpost out.

Second, unlike most folders, the tall stem & handlebars don't fold
with a hinge; instead, they pull out and get hung loosely from frame
tubes within the folded frame. With Friday's "H" bars, this is
probably compact (although still loose and rattly). But we have drop
bars, and it's sort of a tangle to get them in place.

Other more minor issues: Our 3x9 drivetrains drop the chain during
the fold, but it re-mounts easily. Our indexing takes a few miles to
settle down after unfolding, since the cables get bent pretty well.
And the rear fender always needs minor aligning after a fold.

All the above applies to the "quick fold," the two-minute version that
gets the bike into a car, etc. Packing the bike in a suitcase is a
much longer disassembly process (maybe 20 - 30 minutes) and three
dimensional jigsaw puzzle. But almost no other bikes can do that at
all, so I don't mind that so much.

- Frank Krygowski

[Artemisia]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> Is there a good resource for determining the country of origin of
> bicycles? I prefer to buy products made in democratic states with decent
> wages (e.g. Japan, CE, US, Canada, Taiwan), even if the price is
> substantially higher.
>

I was under the impression that Dahons are made in Taiwan, not mainland
China. Surely that is the case for my P21?

EFR
Ile de France

[Artemisia]

c wrote:

> I tried to buy one of these Tournados in France, but here it is unknown.
> Near the borders, I also tried in Spain and in the UK and some vendors
> said me that is no more produced. What a pity!

Where in France? There is a Dahon dealer in Paris:
Bicycland
01 45 20 03 95
98 av de Versailles
Paris, 75016

The guy there is very pleasant and competent. He specializes in comfort,
"Dutch" style bikes and has recently opened a line in folders. He told
me he tried valiantly to get the Dahon franchise for France but it
wasn't possible. He might be able to order your bike for you even if he
doesn't have it in stock.

Also check Ebay for Dahons. I remember www.ebay.de (German) was a rich
source for new Dahons when I was looking at them, and had some
discontinued models.

Cheers and Bonne année,
EFR
Ile de France

[landotter]

On Dec 31, 11:27*am, Artemisia > wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
> > Is there a good resource for determining the country of origin of
> > bicycles? I prefer to buy products made in democratic states with decent
> > wages (e.g. Japan, CE, US, Canada, Taiwan), even if the price is
> > substantially higher.
>
> I was under the impression that Dahons are made in Taiwan, not mainland
> China. Surely that is the case for my P21?
>


"We are headquartered in Los Angeles, California and our bicycles are
assembled in our factories in Taiwan, Macau, the Czech Republic and
China with parts sourced from the leading component manufacturers from
around the world."

[[email protected]]

Frank Krygowski > wrote:

> Our 3x9 drivetrains drop the chain during
>the fold, but it re-mounts easily. Our indexing takes a few miles to
>settle down after unfolding, since the cables get bent pretty well.
>And the rear fender always needs minor aligning after a fold.

What abt going for the dual drive on the NWT where the
front is a single chain ring and the back is combo
derailleur and internal gear hub?

[SMS]

Artemisia wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Is there a good resource for determining the country of origin of
>> bicycles? I prefer to buy products made in democratic states with
>> decent wages (e.g. Japan, CE, US, Canada, Taiwan), even if the price
>> is substantially higher.
>>
>
> I was under the impression that Dahons are made in Taiwan, not mainland
> China. Surely that is the case for my P21?
>
> EFR
> Ile de France
>

Pretty sure they moved all the production to China. Originally Dahon had
their own factory, but now, like most every bicycle manufacturer, they
contract it out to factories in China.

[SMS]

wrote:
> Frank Krygowski > wrote:
>
>> Our 3x9 drivetrains drop the chain during
>> the fold, but it re-mounts easily. Our indexing takes a few miles to
>> settle down after unfolding, since the cables get bent pretty well.
>> And the rear fender always needs minor aligning after a fold.
>
> What abt going for the dual drive on the NWT where the
> front is a single chain ring and the back is combo
> derailleur and internal gear hub?

I have a Dahon with that set-up. It's great, except when you need to fix
a flat, then it's a real pain in the butt. Personally I'd rather have a
front triple than the 3x7, 3x8, or 3x9.

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Dec 31, 12:56*pm, wrote:
> Frank Krygowski > wrote:
> > Our 3x9 drivetrains drop the chain during
> >the fold, but it re-mounts easily. *Our indexing takes a few miles to
> >settle down after unfolding, since the cables get bent pretty well.
> >And the rear fender always needs minor aligning after a fold.
>
> What abt going for the dual drive on the NWT where the
> front is a single chain ring and the back is combo
> derailleur and internal gear hub?

Yes, that's one of the many options. And as I understand it, that
allows the use of a "chain keeper" gizmo that keeps the chain from
dismounting. But on discussing our riding styles, etc, the salesman
from Bike Friday recommended the 3x9, and I'm happy with it.

By the way, despite the little glitches, I'm very happy with the bike
overall. I've test-ridden many models of Dahons, plus a Trek and a
Giant folder. The Friday is the only one that I'd want for, say, a 50
mile ride. And the suitcase trick is very handy.

- Frank Krygowski

[jl]

On Dec 30, 7:11*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I am thinking about buying a folding bike to ride mainly on bike
> > trails or to take with me when I am on some trips. I saw a Dahon
> > folding bike that I like for around $450, and the lowest priced Friday
> > folding bike is around $850. Any opinions about the comparison of the
> > two? I now ride around thrity miles per day on a regular bike, but I
> > would probably ride the folding bike around 15 when I would ride it.
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Tom
>
> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently, I can tell you
> that they're very different animals. The Dahons just never quite seemed
> like a finished product. Little things that wouldn't cost much to take
> care of but never were, giving one the idea that they were more
> concerned with saving a few pennies than quality. That said, the
> difference in price is such that it would be crazy to think a Dahon
> would be in the same league (in terms of quality) as a bike that costs
> twice as much.
>
> The ride is very different, with the Bike Friday feeling a lot more
> stable laterally. For a smaller rider, this probably isn't a huge deal,
> but it's quite noticable for bigger folk.
>
> At 15 miles per day, I think you'd appreciate the differences. But the
> best way to figure that out is to actually take them out and ride them.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

I tried the Dahon. What a goofy-looking and drab-performing bike! I
watched an old couple fly into Hendersonville, NC airport and take off
on Dahons. They landed in a Bonanza, which is an upscale airplane,
then got on those yucky Dahons. It was comical to watch them pedaling
those teeny-wheeled tinker-toys down the street.

I tried the Dahon, and hated it. I never tried a Montague, and wish
to. I have an old Nishiki (I call it a Ni****ki) mountain bike. I
take the wheels off, and the fork, and the seat and kind of shoe-horn
it into my 2-place airplane and bungee the wheels behind the seat.
Then I fly off into the wild blue yonder and look for some great
countryside to bike in, and some interesting people to talk to. I am
NEVER disappointed, especially when they find out how I got into their
neighborhood.

Once when I was flying with the bike aboard, an old bush pilot who was
an FAA mechanic cocked his eyebrow in scorn as he peered into my
cockpit. "Don't let the FAA see you flying around with that
contraption in there," he said. Little does he know. I have flown
all over the east coast with that damn sweet little rig-- and biked
some great places.

I wonder if I could ever find a better rig to do it with. Anybody
familiar with a full-sized folding bike?

[Don Wiss]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:20:23 -0800, SMS > wrote:

>Pretty sure they moved all the production to China. Originally Dahon had
>their own factory, but now, like most every bicycle manufacturer, they
>contract it out to factories in China.

The factory pictured here is on the mainland:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html?pagewanted=all

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"SMS" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>> Having sold Dahon in the past, and Bike Friday presently,
>>> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?
>>
>> Fairly recently. We came on board about two months ago, and have done
>> very well with them.
>>
>>> Reportedly, except for the Tikit, most of the Bike Friday models do
>>> not fold that quickly or compactly, compared to a bike such as the
>>> Bromptom or some of the Dahon models? Is this a fair assessment?
>>
>> Probably, be the higher-end Bike Fridays are meant to mimic, as much
>> as possible, the ride qualities of a full-sized bike. The Brompton
>> and Dahon clearly do not try to accomplish that.
>
> This Dahon does, "http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm".

Isn't that basically a Ritchey Breakaway? Those ride nicely, but they
don't fold up as small as a Bike Friday. And they're probably in a price
range that's not what most people think of with Dahon.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Don Wiss]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2008, Mike Jacoubowsky > wrote:

>Probably, be the higher-end Bike Fridays are meant to mimic, as much as
>possible, the ride qualities of a full-sized bike. The Brompton and
>Dahon clearly do not try to accomplish that.

Depends on the Dahon model. My Glide is quite comfortable with its 24"
wheels and I've biked 60 mile days with no problem. However it is heavy,
and all you want to do is lug it in and out of a car, and up to the check
in counter.

http://www.dahon.com/intl/glidep8.htm

Don <www.donwiss.com/joyrides> (e-mail link at page bottom).

[[email protected]]

SMS > wrote:

>I have a Dahon with that set-up. It's great, except when you need to fix
>a flat, then it's a real pain in the butt. Personally I'd rather have a
>front triple than the 3x7, 3x8, or 3x9.

Hmmmm..... really!

What makes it such a pain when having a rear flat tire?

[[email protected]]

Frank Krygowski > wrote:

>Yes, that's one of the many options. And as I understand it, that
>allows the use of a "chain keeper" gizmo that keeps the chain from
>dismounting. But on discussing our riding styles, etc, the salesman
>from Bike Friday recommended the 3x9, and I'm happy with it.
>
>By the way, despite the little glitches, I'm very happy with the bike
>overall. I've test-ridden many models of Dahons, plus a Trek and a
>Giant folder. The Friday is the only one that I'd want for, say, a 50
>mile ride. And the suitcase trick is very handy.

OK... I currently have an early model Tikit from them.
Like it very well so far but would go with internal
gear on next Tikit

I did once own an NWT back in 95..... loved the bike
overall but had same issues you have with yours

I've been thinking abt buying another NWT or Llama.....
trying to decide what options this time around tho

[[email protected]]

jl > wrote:

>Once when I was flying with the bike aboard, an old bush pilot who was
>an FAA mechanic cocked his eyebrow in scorn as he peered into my
>cockpit. "Don't let the FAA see you flying around with that
>contraption in there," he said. Little does he know. I have flown
>all over the east coast with that damn sweet little rig-- and biked
>some great places.

Why? How would the FAA react and why?

>I wonder if I could ever find a better rig to do it with. Anybody
>familiar with a full-sized folding bike?


Id say go for the break away couplings if going for
full size wheels? What you think Frank?

[SMS]

jl wrote:

> I tried the Dahon. What a goofy-looking and drab-performing bike! I
> watched an old couple fly into Hendersonville, NC airport and take off
> on Dahons. They landed in a Bonanza, which is an upscale airplane,
> then got on those yucky Dahons. It was comical to watch them pedaling
> those teeny-wheeled tinker-toys down the street.
>
> I tried the Dahon, and hated it. I never tried a Montague, and wish
> to.

I have a Montague Urban (no longer made) and it's no different to ride
than a non-folding bike. However it doesn't fold small, or conveniently
like a Dahon or a Brompton.

> I wonder if I could ever find a better rig to do it with. Anybody
> familiar with a full-sized folding bike?

There are many such animals. Montague makes them. Dahon make them (both
folding models and disassembleable models). But can you fit one in your
airplane?

As to Dahons, the problem is that many people try a low end Dahon model
(popular with boaters and pilots), or one of the older Dahons and
proclaim that they hate them and that they are terrible. But Dahon makes
a very wide variety of models, and some are as good as the Bike Fridays,
and some are not. Personally I think that Dahon should have given their
higher end models a different branding to differentiate their "good"
models from their cheaper models.

I don't know if he still makes them, but also check out

"http://www.gaerlan.com/bikes/gotravel/gotravel.htm"

This was a wonderful bike for travel, but it's pricey (but less than a
comparable Bike Friday).

[Andrew Price]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:05:44 -0500, Don Wiss >
wrote:

>>Pretty sure they moved all the production to China. Originally Dahon had
>>their own factory, but now, like most every bicycle manufacturer, they
>>contract it out to factories in China.
>
>The factory pictured here is on the mainland:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html?pagewanted=all

Fascinating - the similarity with the conditions in Manchester in
1844, as described by Friedrich Engels in "The Condition of the
Working Class in England", is striking.

[Frank Krygowski[_2_]]

On Dec 31, 2:43*pm, wrote:
> jl > wrote:
> >Once when I was flying with the bike aboard, an old bush pilot who was
> >an FAA mechanic cocked his eyebrow in scorn as he peered into my
> >cockpit. *"Don't let the FAA see you flying around with that
> >contraption in there," he said. *Little does he know. *I have flown
> >all over the east coast with that damn sweet little rig-- and biked
> >some great places.
>
> Why? How would the FAA react and why?
>
> >I wonder if I could ever find a better rig to do it with. *Anybody
> >familiar with a full-sized folding bike?
>
> Id say go for the break away couplings if going for
> full size wheels? *What you think Frank?

I don't have any significant experience with full size folders or
breakaway bikes. Here's what I know about my friends' bikes:

I have one friend who's got a full size folder ... perhaps a Fuji? I
forget. It's a sort of comfort bike, probably at least five years
old. She's a slow, casual rider, so she doesn't test the bike's
capabilities much. But in looking at it, it looked heavy and kludgy
(sp?) to me. Doesn't fold very small.

I've got other friends with S&S couplings on bikes, including one
couple with an S&S-equipped tandem. They've done extensive overseas
touring with their tandem, and they give the S&S system excellent
reviews. Based on that, I'd lean toward S&S.

But as with small wheel folders, I'm sure there's wide variation in
quality and capability.

- Frank Krygowski

[Jym Dyer]

>> When did Green Gear start selling through LBS's again?
> Fairly recently. We came on board about two months ago,
> and have done very well with them.

=v= The tikits went to bike shops right away (over a year
ago?), so I'm guessing that these are newer lower-cost "Pocket"
models. Good quality bikes, just not custom-fitted. Green
Gear tried this about 10 years ago with the "Metro" line; I
hope this goes better. These bikes have certainly improved
since the "Metro" days!
<_Jym_>

[Jym Dyer]

> All the above applies to the "quick fold," the two-minute
> version that gets the bike into a car, etc.

=v= Two minutes? Wow. The standard-frame Bike Friday folds
pretty quickly for me, just a matter of seconds.

=v= With one hand, one quick-release (QR) lever in the back lets
it fold right under. With the other hand I'm turning the front
wheel around, but timing it so that the seat post and saddle has
clearance as it folds forward. Then I release the QR lever on
the handlebar stem.

=v= They do make a handlebar stem with a hinge, though they
don't recommend it because it weighs more. There's also a
telescoping seat post which weighs *less* -- but folds more
slowly. If you're removing your whole seat post anyway, you
might want to look into that.

=v= For unfolding, I also have to tweak the fenders (generally
with my foot) and mess with barrel adjusters to deal with any
cable stretch (though by that point I'm already riding). I've
found this to be true of all folding bikes, though. :-|
<_Jym_>

[Patrick Lamb]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:39:28 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
> wrote:

>On Dec 31, 2:43*pm, wrote:
>> jl > wrote:
>> Id say go for the break away couplings if going for
>> full size wheels? *What you think Frank?
>
>I don't have any significant experience with full size folders or
>breakaway bikes. Here's what I know about my friends' bikes:
>
>I've got other friends with S&S couplings on bikes, including one
>couple with an S&S-equipped tandem. They've done extensive overseas
>touring with their tandem, and they give the S&S system excellent
>reviews. Based on that, I'd lean toward S&S.

Just a note; I got an S&S coupled bike last summer, and love it.
Mostly. My two complaints are: (1) As I take a largish bike, I've got
to pretty much completely disassemble it to pack it in a suitcase,
which takes ~45-50 minutes. As a result, I'll use it less for 1-2 day
trips than one week or longer trips. (2) I wanted, and got, a lovely
road bike which takes 700c tires (700cx28). They barely fit in the
suitcase. If I were to do it over, I'd go with 26" or 650B wheels, so
I could use the TSA net, and the TSA terrorists could open the case to
inspect it without screwing up my packing.

Pat

Email address works as is.

[Jay[_2_]]

"Andrew Price" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>The factory pictured here is on the mainland:
>>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html?pagewanted=all
>
> Fascinating - the similarity with the conditions in Manchester in
> 1844, as described by Friedrich Engels in "The Condition of the
> Working Class in England", is striking.
>
>
Current day China is like the Industrial Revolution on steroids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution

J.

[Jym Dyer]

SMS (Steven M. Scharf) writes:

> The companies selling non made-in-China bicycles tend to boast
> about it, but I don't think there's any source that shows the
> origin.

=v= That's outrageously dismissive. This is *NOT* about any
"boast," there are real live actual serious issues involved.
China's poor labor practices and horrible lack of environmental
standards are well-documented and well worth considering.

=v= What's more, it's an outrageously fraudulent accusation! I
have never seen a "Bike Fridays aren't made in China" boast from
the manufacturer; their marketing is more positive, emphasizing
their own least-toxic processes rather than the shortcomings of
competitors. (Indeed they are very gracious about competitors.)

=v= The manufacturer is a company that was named Green Gear
years before "green" became a marketing buzzword. Unlike so
many who toss that word around these days, their commitment
to environmental responsibility is sincere, substantial, and
longstanding.

=v= I also give Dahon due credit along these lines. After all,
Dr. Hon started making folding bikes in response to the 1970s
Energy Crisis and all indications are that he's sincere. The
factory in China is boasted as being relatively responsible,
though I'm sure we're all well aware that "relatively" covers
a wide range of possibilities given what it's surrounded by.

> Of course China has become just as capitalistic as any of
> those other countries, while the U.S., during the past eight
> years, has become more and more un-democratic.

=v= This is a total non sequitur; nothing but poor rhetoric.
<_Jym_>