Bottom brackets wearing out

[Ramalamadingdong]

Bicycle stuff.
Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
often.
Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the pedals? I
can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast back down to
about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot of strain on the
bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going back to 145) and that
may be a factor, but as I remember this group there are a few large
riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that the factory bearings are
junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet but it now makes a clicking
noise as I pass from one leg to the other.
Bottom brackets anyone??
Sorry about my personal troll/flamer but he tracked me down.
The Internet does indeed have some strange people on it.
Bill Baka

Re-inspired by Lance.

[PatTX[_2_]]

Ramalamadingdong wrote:


I know! You could go into hiding again! Try that!

[[email protected]]

PatTX wrote:
> Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>
>
> I know! You could go into hiding again! Try that!
>
>
>
That was a serious question.
I can't help it if I have a personal troll. My bottom brackets do wear
out fast for some reason and it is affecting my riding.
Bill

[[email protected]]

Bill Baka wrote:

> Why do I kill bottom brackets? I haven't ridden my semi-famous
> Huffy for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings
> somewhat often.

> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the
> pedals? I can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast
> back down to about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot
> of strain on the bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going
> back to 145) and that may be a factor, but as I remember this group
> there are a few large riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that
> the factory bearings are junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet
> but it now makes a clicking noise as I pass from one leg to the
> other.

You didn't say what make of BB fails for you. Not having had a BB cup
or spindle fail in eons (since getting off cottered cranks), you must
be using some inferior product. I stand on climbs in large enough
gears for "spin coaches" to complain.

> Bottom brackets anyone?

Get better material and adjust it correctly on installation.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/bb-adjust.html

Jobst Brandt

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Bill Baka wrote:
>
>
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets? I haven't ridden my semi-famous
>> Huffy for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings
>> somewhat often.
>>
>
>
>> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the
>> pedals? I can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast
>> back down to about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot
>> of strain on the bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going
>> back to 145) and that may be a factor, but as I remember this group
>> there are a few large riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that
>> the factory bearings are junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet
>> but it now makes a clicking noise as I pass from one leg to the
>> other.
>>
>
> You didn't say what make of BB fails for you. Not having had a BB cup
> or spindle fail in eons (since getting off cottered cranks), you must
> be using some inferior product. I stand on climbs in large enough
> gears for "spin coaches" to complain.
>
Hi Jobst,
I started with the stock bearings and burned through them fairly fast. I
had the BB's replaced by my local bike shop and did **not** tell him to
worry about price.
Unfortunately, I did not get the brands he was putting in, but they
were professional installs.

>
>> Bottom brackets anyone?
>>
>
> Get better material and adjust it correctly on installation.
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/bb-adjust.html
>
> Jobst Brandt
>
More tools in my shed, but it is worth it not to worry about early failures.
The only on-line store I know of is Price Point since they still send me
sale emails.
Is there a better on-line store?
That would be a great help.
Thanks much,
Bill Baka

[[email protected]]

Ramalamadingdong > wrote:
> Bicycle stuff.
> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
> often.
> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the pedals? I
> can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast back down to
> about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot of strain on the
> bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going back to 145) and that
> may be a factor, but as I remember this group there are a few large
> riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that the factory bearings are
> junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet but it now makes a clicking
> noise as I pass from one leg to the other.
> Bottom brackets anyone??

I note that you use the plural. Evidently you have worn out more
than one BB. And of course, you are known for and take pride in riding
Fluffys, and in riding them hard.
I have a four-part opinion to proffer. (1) Everybody puts SOME wear
on BBs and drive trains in general. (2) You may be harder on them than
some others because of your riding style. (3) You may wear out your BBs
partly because you are a man, with a man's body mass. It would be
interesting to hear from a woman who rides a Fluffy about her
maintenance and repair history (but it wouldn't seem especially likely
on this NG). (4) Your bikes may wear out faster than others' because
they're cheapos.
Personally, my main ride is a Specialized hard tail, not a
super-fancy bike by any means, but not a Mao-Mart special either. I
outweigh you by about fifty pounds. At about 11,000 miles, I started
noticing a clunk in my BB. I had the bearings, crank, sprockets,
chain, and cassette replaced. That bike is now up around 15,000 miles
and running like the proverbial Swiss watch. It even survived all but
unscathed the crash that put my clobbered body out of commission for
three months.
I sort of anticipate another rebuild in about 6000 more miles and
wouldn't think it was anything but routine.
Since you put so much wear and tear on your cheap bikes, have you
ever considered swallowing your proletarian pride and springing for a
better one, just to see if it might ride better and/or last longer?
A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?


Bill

| No one is exempt from the call to find common ground.
__o | -- Barak Obama
`\(, | A dictatorship would be a lot easier.
(_)/ (_) | --George W. Bush

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Ramalamadingdong > wrote:
>
>> Bicycle stuff.
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
>> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
>> often.
>> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the pedals? I
>> can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast back down to
>> about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot of strain on the
>> bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going back to 145) and that
>> may be a factor, but as I remember this group there are a few large
>> riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that the factory bearings are
>> junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet but it now makes a clicking
>> noise as I pass from one leg to the other.
>> Bottom brackets anyone??
>>
>
> I note that you use the plural. Evidently you have worn out more
> than one BB. And of course, you are known for and take pride in riding
> Fluffys, and in riding them hard.
>
The Fluffy is pretty much toast at this point, so I just keep it for the
grandkids.
My main ride now is a Pacific Nomad with street slicks and it is kind of
making graunching noises.
It is due before my summer long distance rides.
> I have a four-part opinion to proffer. (1) Everybody puts SOME wear
> on BBs and drive trains in general. (2) You may be harder on them than
> some others because of your riding style. (3) You may wear out your BBs
> partly because you are a man, with a man's body mass. It would be
> interesting to hear from a woman who rides a Fluffy about her
> maintenance and repair history (but it wouldn't seem especially likely
> on this NG). (4) Your bikes may wear out faster than others' because
> they're cheapos.
>
Like I said, NOT the Fluffy but now the Nomad, which is a decent bike,
or my Schwinn road bike which is holding up to my riding style.
> Personally, my main ride is a Specialized hard tail, not a
> super-fancy bike by any means, but not a Mao-Mart special either.
Mao-mart? I like it.
> I
> outweigh you by about fifty pounds. At about 11,000 miles, I started
> noticing a clunk in my BB. I had the bearings, crank, sprockets,
> chain, and cassette replaced.
Why replace so much? I have about a dozen crank sets thanks to the Ebay
phenomenon, so I have more than enough crank sets.
> That bike is now up around 15,000 miles
> and running like the proverbial Swiss watch. It even survived all but
> unscathed the crash that put my clobbered body out of commission for
> three months.
>
I do crash with some degree of regularity, but all I have done is knock
out some teeth.
> I sort of anticipate another rebuild in about 6000 more miles and
> wouldn't think it was anything but routine.
>
With that many miles it does sound like a rebuild would be in order.
Kind of why I have 4 bikes in ridable shape, and no room in my garage
for cars.
> Since you put so much wear and tear on your cheap bikes, have you
> ever considered swallowing your proletarian pride and springing for a
> better one, just to see if it might ride better and/or last longer?
>
It's a money issue. I am the Jack Benny of our time.
> A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
> en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
>
WTF???
Bill Baka
>
> Bill
>
> | No one is exempt from the call to find common ground.
> __o | -- Barak Obama
> `\(, | A dictatorship would be a lot easier.
> (_)/ (_) | --George W. Bush
>

[terryc]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:

> Bicycle stuff.
> Why do I kill bottom brackets?

Dirt and **** getting in there.
Cheap bearings, etc.

[[email protected]]

terryc wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>
>
>> Bicycle stuff.
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
>>
>
> Dirt and **** getting in there.
> Cheap bearings, etc.
>
I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have killed
new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops in a dinky
little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a dealer. Van's
is an independent shop where you can BS with him while he works.
So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
Bill Baka

[[email protected]]

> wrote:
> > Since you put so much wear and tear on your cheap bikes, have you
> > ever considered swallowing your proletarian pride and springing for a
> > better one, just to see if it might ride better and/or last longer?
> >
> It's a money issue. I am the Jack Benny of our time.

Sometimes there is such a thing as false economy. I don't know your
financial situation, but in mine I find that my bikes pay for themselves
over and over because even though they cost me money for upkeep, they
still cost less than a car would. In your case it might turn out that a
quality bike ends up costing less than a cheapo because it needs fewer
repairs and strands you less.

> > A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
> > en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
> >
> WTF???

From the fact that you didn't understand the question, I deduce that
the answer is no. Some Spanish speakers living in the US start speaking
something called Spanglish, in which the words are a mixture of English
and Spanish, or are English words pronounced as if they were Spanish.
Chirro (accent on last syllable), for instance, is "sheet rock." And a
"baka" is a bike in Spanglish. Odd coincidence, don't you think?

Bill

__o |
_`\(,_ |Friends don't let friends shop at Wal-Mart.
(_)/ (_) |

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

aka Bill Baka wrote:
> terryc wrote:
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Bicycle stuff.
>>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
>>>
>>
>> Dirt and **** getting in there.
>> Cheap bearings, etc.
>>
> I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have killed
> new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops in a dinky
> little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a dealer. Van's
> is an independent shop where you can BS with him while he works.
> So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
>
Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from being
prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for poor quality
races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom brackets is not
really affected at all by installation.

As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a $10-15
Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last 1500-2500 miles
(in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN series bottom bracket
under similar conditions should last more than 10,000 miles when exposed
to the same environmental conditions.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>>> Since you put so much wear and tear on your cheap bikes, have you
>>> ever considered swallowing your proletarian pride and springing for a
>>> better one, just to see if it might ride better and/or last longer?
>>>
>>>
>> It's a money issue. I am the Jack Benny of our time.
>>
>
> Sometimes there is such a thing as false economy. I don't know your
> financial situation, but in mine I find that my bikes pay for themselves
> over and over because even though they cost me money for upkeep, they
> still cost less than a car would. In your case it might turn out that a
> quality bike ends up costing less than a cheapo because it needs fewer
> repairs and strands you less.
>
I like to tinker so repairs do not cost me money except for things like
BB's that need special tools.
Trying to impress people with a fancy bike is a bad idea since there are
so many drug addicts in this area and the economy sucks.
A bike with quick disconnects is too easy to steal and leave the front
tire in the lock rack.
I have also found that thieves will even steal a seat just to do it.
Modern life, ain't it wunnerfull?
>
>>> A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
>>> en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
>>>
>>>
>> WTF???
>>
>
> From the fact that you didn't understand the question, I deduce that
> the answer is no. Some Spanish speakers living in the US start speaking
> something called Spanglish, in which the words are a mixture of English
> and Spanish, or are English words pronounced as if they were Spanish.
> Chirro (accent on last syllable), for instance, is "sheet rock." And a
> "baka" is a bike in Spanglish. Odd coincidence, don't you think?
>
My name means different things in different languages. My grand father's
original name was 'Mruk' so he changed it to Baka.
As to the above, I took 3 years of French, and the languages are
different enough to not be cross readable.
Little did I know about the flood of Mexicans.
Bill Baka
> Bill
>
> __o |
> _`\(,_ |Friends don't let friends shop at Wal-Mart.
> (_)/ (_) |
>
>

[[email protected]]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> aka Bill Baka wrote:
>> terryc wrote:
>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bicycle stuff.
>>>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dirt and **** getting in there.
>>> Cheap bearings, etc.
>>>
>> I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have
>> killed new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops
>> in a dinky little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a
>> dealer. Van's is an independent shop where you can BS with him while
>> he works.
>> So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
>>
> Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from being
> prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for poor quality
> races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom brackets is not
> really affected at all by installation.
>
> As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a $10-15
> Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last 1500-2500
> miles (in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN series bottom
> bracket under similar conditions should last more than 10,000 miles
> when exposed to the same environmental conditions.
>
I did tell him to put on the best he had but I did not get the name on
the receipt. Money is less of a concern than continuing to eat BB's.
He is a very good bike mechanic so I trust him with my bikes.
Bill Baka

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Tom Sherman > wrote:

> aka Bill Baka wrote:
> > terryc wrote:
> >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Bicycle stuff.
> >>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Dirt and **** getting in there.
> >> Cheap bearings, etc.
> >>
> > I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have killed
> > new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops in a dinky
> > little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a dealer. Van's
> > is an independent shop where you can BS with him while he works.
> > So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
> >
> Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from being
> prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for poor quality
> races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom brackets is not
> really affected at all by installation.
>
> As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a $10-15
> Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last 1500-2500 miles
> (in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN series bottom bracket
> under similar conditions should last more than 10,000 miles when exposed
> to the same environmental conditions.

Bottom brackets are kind of like car wheel bearings: they tend to work
perfectly for long periods of time, but fail very rapidly when their
innards are contaminated with dirt and water. So it's probably worth
paying a bit more for decent environmental sealing (or, with some of the
non-cartridge designs, being really fussy about cleaning and repacking).
But failure is likely to come more or less at random.

A friend had a decent BB fail on about his fifth ride on a CX bike,
though it was after an 8-hour grit-infested death ride that also took
out one pedal and a headset. Expensive ride.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

[Chalo]

Bill Baka aka Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>
> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
> often.

Is this a one-piece or a threaded shell BB?

I reckon your problem must be contamination in either case. It does
not take much abrasive junk in the bearing to precipitate a cascading
failure ending with large pits and spalling of the balls and races.

American (OPC) type bottom brackets are way more tolerant of dirty or
absent grease than threaded bottom brackets, though. The greater size
of balls and races implies lower specific loading and higher
reliability. If you are content to ride a Huffy, you can almost
certainly find one with a one-piece crank-- though this will usually
come along with the lowest grade of accompanying parts, so whatever
you gain in crank reliability you might sacrifice in other regards.

The Roadmaster Mt. Fury (as exhaustively tested and subtly renamed by
our own esteemed Mr. Carl Fogel) uses a one-piece crank to good
effect. I'm sure it has its shortcomings, but according to Mr.
Fogel's reports it seems to work well enough.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1977659

> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the pedals?

No. Bearings don't see torque anyway; they just pass it along. You
can only push as hard on a tall gear as you can on a low gear-- your
weight plus a bit more from pulling on the bars. In your case, that
does not amount to as much force as others of us just stepping on a
pedal normally.

> I
> can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast back down to
> about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot of strain on the
> bearings.

I doubt it, unless they are overtightened or otherwise misadjusted.

Chalo

[Bill]

PatTX wrote:
> Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>
>
> I know! You could go into hiding again! Try that!
>
>
That WAS a serious question, not a troll.
The Ramalamadingdong was to confuse a troll named DanC who came here
just to rag on me. He is a known troll on the Ubuntu group.
Ignore him since he is just a nuisance.
Bill Baka

[Bill]

wrote:
> Bill Baka wrote:
>
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets? I haven't ridden my semi-famous
>> Huffy for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings
>> somewhat often.
>
>> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the
>> pedals? I can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast
>> back down to about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot
>> of strain on the bearings. I weigh 180 pounds at the moment (going
>> back to 145) and that may be a factor, but as I remember this group
>> there are a few large riders (Chalo comes to mind). Is it just that
>> the factory bearings are junk? I don't have a 'grunnnnccchhhh' yet
>> but it now makes a clicking noise as I pass from one leg to the
>> other.
>
> You didn't say what make of BB fails for you. Not having had a BB cup
> or spindle fail in eons (since getting off cottered cranks), you must
> be using some inferior product. I stand on climbs in large enough
> gears for "spin coaches" to complain.

It was installed by my LBS, and he does not use inferior parts.
>
>> Bottom brackets anyone?
>
> Get better material and adjust it correctly on installation.

Pretty hard to tell the bike mechanic 'his' job.
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/bb-adjust.html
>
> Jobst Brandt

Thanks for the input either way.
Bill Baka
At least I have spare bikes.

[Bill]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article >,
> Tom Sherman > wrote:
>
>> aka Bill Baka wrote:
>>> terryc wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Bicycle stuff.
>>>>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
>>>>>
>>>> Dirt and **** getting in there.
>>>> Cheap bearings, etc.
>>>>
>>> I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have killed
>>> new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops in a dinky
>>> little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a dealer. Van's
>>> is an independent shop where you can BS with him while he works.
>>> So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
>>>
>> Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from being
>> prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for poor quality
>> races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom brackets is not
>> really affected at all by installation.
>>
>> As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a $10-15
>> Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last 1500-2500 miles
>> (in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN series bottom bracket
>> under similar conditions should last more than 10,000 miles when exposed
>> to the same environmental conditions.
>
> Bottom brackets are kind of like car wheel bearings: they tend to work
> perfectly for long periods of time, but fail very rapidly when their
> innards are contaminated with dirt and water. So it's probably worth
> paying a bit more for decent environmental sealing (or, with some of the
> non-cartridge designs, being really fussy about cleaning and repacking).
> But failure is likely to come more or less at random.
>
> A friend had a decent BB fail on about his fifth ride on a CX bike,
> though it was after an 8-hour grit-infested death ride that also took
> out one pedal and a headset. Expensive ride.
>
I pay the extra money to get my bike shop guy to put in good stuff, so
it may actually be my riding style, which beats the snot out of bikes.
I do sometimes dump it in the mud, but that is part of the experience
for me. I don't go out to ride my age (60) but to have fun and exercise.
My Schwinn road bike has had no problems, and for what it is worth I
haven' used the 'Fluffy' for almost 2 years. It is now a backup bike and
fourth on the list.
Bill Baka

[Bill]

wrote:
> > wrote:
>>> Since you put so much wear and tear on your cheap bikes, have you
>>> ever considered swallowing your proletarian pride and springing for a
>>> better one, just to see if it might ride better and/or last longer?
>>>
>> It's a money issue. I am the Jack Benny of our time.
>
> Sometimes there is such a thing as false economy. I don't know your
> financial situation, but in mine I find that my bikes pay for themselves
> over and over because even though they cost me money for upkeep, they
> still cost less than a car would. In your case it might turn out that a
> quality bike ends up costing less than a cheapo because it needs fewer
> repairs and strands you less.

My financial situation is 'retired' at this point, so I watch the pennies.
>
>>> A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
>>> en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
>>>
>> WTF???
>
> From the fact that you didn't understand the question, I deduce that
> the answer is no. Some Spanish speakers living in the US start speaking
> something called Spanglish, in which the words are a mixture of English
> and Spanish, or are English words pronounced as if they were Spanish.
> Chirro (accent on last syllable), for instance, is "sheet rock." And a
> "baka" is a bike in Spanglish. Odd coincidence, don't you think?
>
> Bill
>
> __o |
> _`\(,_ |Friends don't let friends shop at Wal-Mart.
> (_)/ (_) |
>
Plenty odd. I took French in high school and have had no chance to use it.

[Bill]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> aka Bill Baka wrote:
>> terryc wrote:
>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Bicycle stuff.
>>>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dirt and **** getting in there.
>>> Cheap bearings, etc.
>>>
>> I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have
>> killed new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2 shops in
>> a dinky little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still charges like a
>> dealer. Van's is an independent shop where you can BS with him while
>> he works.
>> So...Good shop and a rip off shop, on the same street no less..
>>
> Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from being
> prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for poor quality
> races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom brackets is not
> really affected at all by installation.
>
> As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a $10-15
> Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last 1500-2500 miles
> (in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN series bottom bracket
> under similar conditions should last more than 10,000 miles when exposed
> to the same environmental conditions.
>
I did pay for the premium bearings, since I hate wasting time to replace
something basic on my bikes. There may have been dirt and grit issues by
the way and places I ride, but there are still ghost towns to be
explored. They make riding more fun than just riding the same course
over and over, like some people do. Now I want a metal detector to take
with me.
Bill Baka
Bill Baka

[Dan C]

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:13:01 -0800, Bill wrote:

>> I know! You could go into hiding again! Try that!

LOL! Good idea!

> That WAS a serious question, not a troll. The Ramalamadingdong was to
> confuse a troll named DanC who came here just to rag on me.

I'm not the troll here, Bill. You are. That silly name (obviously)
didn't confuse anyone.

> He is a known troll on the Ubuntu group. Ignore him since he is just a
> nuisance.

Wrong again, Billy boy. I actually *use* Linux. Why were you ever in
the Linux groups, since you don't even use Linux?

I know! See above re: troll.

Good luck with that bottom bracket.


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"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

[Dan C]

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:15:55 -0800, Bill wrote:

>> You didn't say what make of BB fails for you. Not having had a BB cup
>> or spindle fail in eons (since getting off cottered cranks), you must
>> be using some inferior product. I stand on climbs in large enough
>> gears for "spin coaches" to complain.

> It was installed by my LBS, and he does not use inferior parts.

Well, he most clearly *does*, Bill. Perhaps he's *charging* you for
better parts, but he's using poor quality ones...

>> Get better material and adjust it correctly on installation.

> Pretty hard to tell the bike mechanic 'his' job.

Tell him to stop using garbage parts.

> Thanks for the input either way.

Welcome.

> At least I have spare bikes.

Yeah, you do have that going for ya.


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Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

[Stephen Bauman]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:

> Bicycle stuff.
> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
> often.

One feature of inexpensive seat posts is that they have a hole at the
top. This permits all sorts of debris to be picked up by the tires get
deflected by the saddle and fall down into this hole. The debris falls
through the seat tube and down to the bottom bracket.

The cure is to put some tape on top of the seat post and cover the hole.

Stephen Bauman

[Dan C]

On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:24:32 -0800, Bill wrote:

> Plenty odd. I took French in high school and have had no chance to use
> it.

You should take a trip to France, Bill. They speak it over there!


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

[Bill]

Chalo wrote:
> Bill Baka aka Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
>> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
>> often.
>
> Is this a one-piece or a threaded shell BB?

Hi Chalo.
I really don't know since I just told him to put the best possible
bearing in the bike and didn't watch him do it. I was cruising the store
ans BS'ing with him but not watching.
>
> I reckon your problem must be contamination in either case. It does
> not take much abrasive junk in the bearing to precipitate a cascading
> failure ending with large pits and spalling of the balls and races.

That happened on my now infamous Fluffy, to the point where the bearings
fell out on the road and I had to call my wife for a rescue.
>
> American (OPC) type bottom brackets are way more tolerant of dirty or
> absent grease than threaded bottom brackets, though. The greater size
> of balls and races implies lower specific loading and higher
> reliability. If you are content to ride a Huffy, you can almost
> certainly find one with a one-piece crank-- though this will usually
> come along with the lowest grade of accompanying parts, so whatever
> you gain in crank reliability you might sacrifice in other regards.

A one piece crank just denotes the cheapest possible Chinese bike, and
as I have mentioned the 'Fluffy' is pretty much worn out. I split my
riding time between the Schwinn road bike a Diamond-Pacific.
>
> The Roadmaster Mt. Fury (as exhaustively tested and subtly renamed by
> our own esteemed Mr. Carl Fogel) uses a one-piece crank to good
> effect. I'm sure it has its shortcomings, but according to Mr.
> Fogel's reports it seems to work well enough.
>
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1977659
>
>> Could this be from using top gear (48/11) and standing on the pedals?
>
> No. Bearings don't see torque anyway; they just pass it along. You
> can only push as hard on a tall gear as you can on a low gear-- your
> weight plus a bit more from pulling on the bars. In your case, that
> does not amount to as much force as others of us just stepping on a
> pedal normally.
>
>> I
>> can top 25MPH doing this (not for long) and then coast back down to
>> about 15MPH for a cruising speed, but that puts a lot of strain on the
>> bearings.
>
> I doubt it, unless they are overtightened or otherwise misadjusted.
>
> Chalo

Chalo,
I know you are a big guy but how much do you weigh? That just means "How
much force do you put on the pedals?".
Bill Baka (home of the bad bearings)

[Bill]

Stephen Bauman wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:02:03 -0800, Ramalamadingdong wrote:
>
>> Bicycle stuff.
>> Why do I kill bottom brackets?? I haven't ridden my semi-famous Huffy
>> for about two years now, but it seems that I kill the bearings somewhat
>> often.
>
> One feature of inexpensive seat posts is that they have a hole at the
> top. This permits all sorts of debris to be picked up by the tires get
> deflected by the saddle and fall down into this hole. The debris falls
> through the seat tube and down to the bottom bracket.
>
> The cure is to put some tape on top of the seat post and cover the hole.
>
> Stephen Bauman

Interesting. I never knew that the seat post went all the way down like
that.
Thanks,
Bill Baka

[Chalo]

Bill wrote:
>
> Chalo,
> I know you are a big guy but how much do you weigh? That just means "How
> much force do you put on the pedals?".

Right now, I weigh in the neighborhood of 350 lbs. I have been an
active cyclist at body weights between about 220 and about 410
pounds.

I use heavy-duty BMX/freestyle cranks to avoid breaking crank
spindles. That means that my bottom bracket bearings are stronger
than normal when I have an American shell and weaker than normal when
I have a threaded shell. I install them carefully and take good care
of them, but I haven't had noteworthy problems with my bottom brackets
in a long time.

Chalo

[Bill]

Chalo wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Chalo,
>> I know you are a big guy but how much do you weigh? That just means "How
>> much force do you put on the pedals?".
>
> Right now, I weigh in the neighborhood of 350 lbs. I have been an
> active cyclist at body weights between about 220 and about 410
> pounds.
>
> I use heavy-duty BMX/freestyle cranks to avoid breaking crank
> spindles. That means that my bottom bracket bearings are stronger
> than normal when I have an American shell and weaker than normal when
> I have a threaded shell. I install them carefully and take good care
> of them, but I haven't had noteworthy problems with my bottom brackets
> in a long time.
>
> Chalo

I knew you were, but, 350 pounds must put one heck of a strain on
things. On skinny road bike tires?
Maybe I should have bought the crank tools and done it myself.
I now have totally no clue what my LBS guy put in there.
I just told him the best he had in stock.

[[email protected]]

> wrote:
<SNIP>

> >>> A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
> >>> en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> WTF???
> >>
> >
> > From the fact that you didn't understand the question, I deduce that
> > the answer is no. Some Spanish speakers living in the US start speaking
> > something called Spanglish, in which the words are a mixture of English
> > and Spanish, or are English words pronounced as if they were Spanish.
> > Chirro (accent on last syllable), for instance, is "sheet rock." And a
> > "baka" is a bike in Spanglish. Odd coincidence, don't you think?
> >
> My name means different things in different languages. My grand father's
> original name was 'Mruk' so he changed it to Baka.
> As to the above, I took 3 years of French, and the languages are
> different enough to not be cross readable.
> Little did I know about the flood of Mexicans.

Moi, je n'ai etudie que deux trimestres de Francais a l'universite il
fait trent-huit ans, mais je me souviens un peu. Et je penses que les
langues romances sont assez similaires qu'on peut entendre une qui parle
une des autres.
Or something like that.


Bill

--------------------------------------------------
| "You teach a child to read, and he or her will |
| be able to pass a literacy test.'' |
| -George W. Bush |
--------------------------------------------------

[[email protected]]

Bill Baka wrote:

>>>>>> Bicycle stuff. Why do I kill bottom brackets?

>>>>> Dirt and **** getting in there. Cheap bearings, etc.

>>>> I agree on the cheap bearings that come with the bikes but I have
>>>> killed new ones installed by my local bicycle shop. We have 2
>>>> shops in a dinky little town and the ex-Schwinn dealer still
>>>> charges like a dealer. Van's is an independent shop where you can
>>>> BS with him while he works. So...Good shop and a rip off shop,
>>>> on the same street no less..

>>> Proper installation can keep a cup-and-cone bottom bracket from
>>> being prematurely ruined, but will do nothing to compensate for
>>> poor quality races and balls. The longevity of cartridge bottom
>>> brackets is not really affected at all by installation.

>>> As an example of why spending a bit more can be a good idea, a
>>> $10-15 Shimano LP series bottom bracket can be expected to last
>>> 1500-2500 miles (in my experience). A $20-30 dollar Shimano UN
>>> series bottom bracket under similar conditions should last more
>>> than 10,000 miles when exposed to the same environmental
>>> conditions.

>> Bottom brackets are kind of like car wheel bearings: they tend to
>> work perfectly for long periods of time, but fail very rapidly when
>> their innards are contaminated with dirt and water. So it's
>> probably worth paying a bit more for decent environmental sealing
>> (or, with some of the non-cartridge designs, being really fussy
>> about cleaning and repacking). But failure is likely to come more
>> or less at random.

>> A friend had a decent BB fail on about his fifth ride on a CX bike,
>> though it was after an 8-hour grit-infested death ride that also
>> took out one pedal and a headset. Expensive ride.

> I pay the extra money to get my bike shop guy to put in good stuff,
> so it may actually be my riding style, which beats the snot out of
> bikes. I do sometimes dump it in the mud, but that is part of the
> experience for me. I don't go out to ride my age (60) but to have
> fun and exercise. My Schwinn road bike has had no problems, and for
> what it is worth I haven' used the 'Fluffy' for almost 2 years. It
> is now a backup bike and fourth on the list.

I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
the material or you could have easily said what it is.

Jobst Brandt

[Chalo]

Bill wrote:
>
> 350 pounds must put one heck of a strain on
> things. On skinny road bike tires?

My "skinny" tires are one pair of 700x32. All the others are fatter
than that.

> I now have totally no clue what my LBS guy put in there.
> I just told him the best he had in stock.

I have another possible explanation. If your bike has an ISIS or
Octalink crank, then the excessive wear and tear may be a result of
chronic issues best characterized as design flaws. There just isn't
enough room inside a normal threaded bottom bracket shell to fit in
both a 22mm spindle like those mentioned above, and a set of
appropriately large bearings. The chronic problems that resulted from
too-small bearings caused bike parts manufacturers to adopt outboard
bearing cups as a means of reconciling oversized crank spindles, BSC
or Italian threaded BB shells, and adequately sized bearings.

Chalo

[Bill]

wrote:
> > wrote:
> <SNIP>
>
>>>>> A proposito, me doy cuenta de que tu apellido significa "bicicleta"
>>>>> en el dialecto chicano. Acaso sera esto no una coincidencia?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> WTF???
>>>>
>>> From the fact that you didn't understand the question, I deduce that
>>> the answer is no. Some Spanish speakers living in the US start speaking
>>> something called Spanglish, in which the words are a mixture of English
>>> and Spanish, or are English words pronounced as if they were Spanish.
>>> Chirro (accent on last syllable), for instance, is "sheet rock." And a
>>> "baka" is a bike in Spanglish. Odd coincidence, don't you think?
>>>
>> My name means different things in different languages. My grand father's
>> original name was 'Mruk' so he changed it to Baka.
>> As to the above, I took 3 years of French, and the languages are
>> different enough to not be cross readable.
>> Little did I know about the flood of Mexicans.
>
> Moi, je n'ai etudie que deux trimestres de Francais a l'universite il
> fait trent-huit ans, mais je me souviens un peu. Et je penses que les
> langues romances sont assez similaires qu'on peut entendre une qui parle
> une des autres.
> Or something like that.
>
>
> Bill
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> | "You teach a child to read, and he or her will |
> | be able to pass a literacy test.'' |
> | -George W. Bush |
> --------------------------------------------------
The above shows that you took 3 trimesters, and I get the rest, so you
seem to have better writing skill than me, after 43 tears of non-use.
Cheers,
Bill Baka

[Bill]

wrote:
> I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
> with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
> bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
> the material or you could have easily said what it is.
>
> Jobst Brandt

Jobst,
I have to agree that I am baffled. It may be my habit of exploring ghost
towns and geting some ''unknown'' substance in them. It takes me about
15 miles of pavement to get to the old dirt roads but the payoff is
totally worth the effort. I may yet build a website to put picture from
my exploits.
I'll go now.
Bill Baka

[Bill]

Chalo wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> 350 pounds must put one heck of a strain on
>> things. On skinny road bike tires?
>
> My "skinny" tires are one pair of 700x32. All the others are fatter
> than that.

I kind of figured that would be fat tires at your weight.
All I know is that you are most likely the biggest rider here.
>
>> I now have totally no clue what my LBS guy put in there.
>> I just told him the best he had in stock.
>
> I have another possible explanation. If your bike has an ISIS or
> Octalink crank, then the excessive wear and tear may be a result of
> chronic issues best characterized as design flaws.

I have the square crank and change the gears sometimes for what I plan
on riding for that day or even month.

There just isn't
> enough room inside a normal threaded bottom bracket shell to fit in
> both a 22mm spindle like those mentioned above, and a set of
> appropriately large bearings. The chronic problems that resulted from
> too-small bearings caused bike parts manufacturers to adopt outboard
> bearing cups as a means of reconciling oversized crank spindles, BSC
> or Italian threaded BB shells, and adequately sized bearings.
>
> Chalo

Regarding the size of the shell on the bike I have 3 bikes with the
large shell and one with small shell that I can put a 22 tooth granny.
Thanks for the input.
Bill Baka

[[email protected]]

Bill > wrote:
> >
> > Moi, je n'ai etudie que deux trimestres de Francais a l'universite il
> > fait trent-huit ans, mais je me souviens un peu. Et je penses que les
> > langues romances sont assez similaires qu'on peut entendre une qui parle
> > une des autres.
> > Or something like that.

> The above shows that you took 3 trimesters, and I get the rest, so you
> seem to have better writing skill than me, after 43 tears of non-use.

Pas trois, deux seulement. ;)

Bill

------------------------------------
| There oughta be limits to Freedom. |
| -- George W. Bush |
------------------------------------

[Dan C]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:28:23 -0800, Bill wrote:

>> I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
>> with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
>> bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
>> the material or you could have easily said what it is.

> I have to agree that I am baffled.

There's nothing "baffling" about it, Bill. You are clearly using sub-
standard parts on that bike, and that's what happens when you do that.

> It may be my habit of exploring ghost
> towns and geting some ''unknown'' substance in them.

That's got nothing to do with the problem.

> I may yet build a website to put picture from my exploits.

That would be great, Bill. Let us know the URL when you have it ready.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Bill > wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Moi, je n'ai etudie que deux trimestres de Francais a l'universite il
>>> fait trent-huit ans, mais je me souviens un peu. Et je penses que les
>>> langues romances sont assez similaires qu'on peut entendre une qui parle
>>> une des autres.
>>> Or something like that.
>>>
>
>
>> The above shows that you took 3 trimesters, and I get the rest, so you
>> seem to have better writing skill than me, after 43 tears of non-use.
>>
At this point I am better off reading French than trying to write it.
Bill (rusty French) Baka
>
> Pas trois, deux seulement. ;)
>
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------------
> | There oughta be limits to Freedom. |
> | -- George W. Bush |
> ------------------------------------
>

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Bill Baka wrote:
>
>
>
>> I pay the extra money to get my bike shop guy to put in good stuff,
>> so it may actually be my riding style, which beats the snot out of
>> bikes. I do sometimes dump it in the mud, but that is part of the
>> experience for me. I don't go out to ride my age (60) but to have
>> fun and exercise. My Schwinn road bike has had no problems, and for
>> what it is worth I haven' used the 'Fluffy' for almost 2 years. It
>> is now a backup bike and fourth on the list.
>>
>
> I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
> with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
> bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
> the material or you could have easily said what it is.
>
> Jobst Brandt
>
It could be that cheap bearings are all that was available. 3 of my
bikes have the large diameter BB and one has the small bearings and I
have managed to kill a set on each bike. I try to keep the bike out of
the muck, but that doesn't help much.
Bill (confused) Baka

[Tom Sherman[_2_]]

aka Bill Baka wrote:
> wrote:
>> Bill Baka wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I pay the extra money to get my bike shop guy to put in good stuff,
>>> so it may actually be my riding style, which beats the snot out of
>>> bikes. I do sometimes dump it in the mud, but that is part of the
>>> experience for me. I don't go out to ride my age (60) but to have
>>> fun and exercise. My Schwinn road bike has had no problems, and for
>>> what it is worth I haven' used the 'Fluffy' for almost 2 years. It
>>> is now a backup bike and fourth on the list.
>>>
>>
>> I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
>> with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
>> bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
>> the material or you could have easily said what it is.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>>
> It could be that cheap bearings are all that was available. 3 of my
> bikes have the large diameter BB and one has the small bearings and I
> have managed to kill a set on each bike. I try to keep the bike out of
> the muck, but that doesn't help much.
> Bill (confused) Baka

Any commercially produced BB will use standard size balls, which can be
purchased in any grade, however that will not help that much if the
bearing races are made from "cheese". Chalo can likely direct you to
higher quality parts for OPC [1] BB's, or a good dealer such as Andrew Muzi.

Cartridge BB's come from poor to excellent, and I imagine a better one
could be found for your bicycle. Take a look at this article and tell us
what you have: <http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom>.

[1] Commonly known as "Ashtabula", and found on Huffy's, etc.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

[[email protected]]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> aka Bill Baka wrote:
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I doubt is has anything to do with riding style. What more can one do
>>> with the feet than push hard. That is not enough to damage BB
>>> bearings. Something else is occurring and as I said, I am doubtful of
>>> the material or you could have easily said what it is.
>>>
>>> Jobst Brandt
>>>
>> It could be that cheap bearings are all that was available. 3 of my
>> bikes have the large diameter BB and one has the small bearings and I
>> have managed to kill a set on each bike. I try to keep the bike out
>> of the muck, but that doesn't help much.
>> Bill (confused) Baka
>
> Any commercially produced BB will use standard size balls, which can
> be purchased in any grade, however that will not help that much if the
> bearing races are made from "cheese". Chalo can likely direct you to
> higher quality parts for OPC [1] BB's, or a good dealer such as Andrew
> Muzi.
>
> Cartridge BB's come from poor to excellent, and I imagine a better one
> could be found for your bicycle. Take a look at this article and tell
> us what you have: <http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom>.
>
> [1] Commonly known as "Ashtabula", and found on Huffy's, etc.
>
Some snippage above. I went to the site and found almost too much
information. The infamous Huffy is retired.
Thanks for the pointer to some intersting stuff.
Bill Baka