Another decade gone. Time to repaint again...

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
decide.

1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
(Cannondale?). is it a patented
process, therefore unavailable to the
general public? If not;

2. How expensive?

3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
one has the proper equipment
(compressor, paint gun). How complex
is the process, and where could I learn
how?

4. What color combinations are available?
I would like something like green/cyan.

Again, TIA

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Dave Thompson]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" > wrote in message
...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>
Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
$1000!

[Dave Thompson]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" > wrote in message
...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>
Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
$1000!

[Dan Daniel]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:46:01 -0400, (Chris
Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:

>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
>type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
>when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
>decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
>2. How expensive?
>
>3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
>4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
>Again, TIA
>
>- -
>
>"May you have the wind at your back.
>And a really low gear for the hills!"
>

Search for Afflair pigments....

http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,1846,62577,00.html

I can't imagine a custom painter not being able to do this. Or an auto
paint place should be able to provide it. At my work, we have these
types of pigments. They either come from the manufacturer mixed in a
base (e.g. Beckers from Sweden) or in dry powders that we add to a
clear medium.

The base color is critical for the effect, as with most metal flakes.
And the thickness of the coat is also important. Getting a consistent
thickness, within 1/1000" or less, can be difficult on bike tubes.

I've used a little of the powder among other pigments in one bike
paint job. The flop is minimal and subtle. I applied a urethane top
coat- ChromaClear 7600 (two part, dangerous for home use) which didn't
seem to have a huge effect on the flop. Beckers provides it own top
coat which is pretty matt, but I have no idea how this would hold up
on a bike. I'm going to test it soon for an upcoming paint job.

Basically, either have a bike painter do it- should be very possible.
Or talk to an auto paint supplier. Get a good respirator- forced air
preferable- and be careful. Some serious chemicals in some of these
paints, and metal powder is never good for the lungs.

Be careful with these pigments- they can be eye striking but actually
quite ugly. As a guy I worked with said, it looks like a couple of the
colors you get in the bottom of the dump bucket when mixing paints.
Choose carefully and judge it in sunlight.

[Dan Daniel]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:46:01 -0400, (Chris
Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote:

>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
>type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
>when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
>decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
>2. How expensive?
>
>3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
>4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
>Again, TIA
>
>- -
>
>"May you have the wind at your back.
>And a really low gear for the hills!"
>

Search for Afflair pigments....

http://www.pcimag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,1846,62577,00.html

I can't imagine a custom painter not being able to do this. Or an auto
paint place should be able to provide it. At my work, we have these
types of pigments. They either come from the manufacturer mixed in a
base (e.g. Beckers from Sweden) or in dry powders that we add to a
clear medium.

The base color is critical for the effect, as with most metal flakes.
And the thickness of the coat is also important. Getting a consistent
thickness, within 1/1000" or less, can be difficult on bike tubes.

I've used a little of the powder among other pigments in one bike
paint job. The flop is minimal and subtle. I applied a urethane top
coat- ChromaClear 7600 (two part, dangerous for home use) which didn't
seem to have a huge effect on the flop. Beckers provides it own top
coat which is pretty matt, but I have no idea how this would hold up
on a bike. I'm going to test it soon for an upcoming paint job.

Basically, either have a bike painter do it- should be very possible.
Or talk to an auto paint supplier. Get a good respirator- forced air
preferable- and be careful. Some serious chemicals in some of these
paints, and metal powder is never good for the lungs.

Be careful with these pigments- they can be eye striking but actually
quite ugly. As a guy I worked with said, it looks like a couple of the
colors you get in the bottom of the dump bucket when mixing paints.
Choose carefully and judge it in sunlight.

[A Muzi]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
It's also available on cars. (It started there, actually)

A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as
to be aligned with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl
rinse with clear. Check at any auto paint wholesaler in
your area.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
It's also available on cars. (It started there, actually)

A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as
to be aligned with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl
rinse with clear. Check at any auto paint wholesaler in
your area.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Zog The Undeniable]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.

Nissan, Rover and TVR have also used it on some of their cars. The
Nissan paint is 110UKP a tin according to the dealership. Rover have
the best colour - it's used on the rather evil-looking MG ZTT.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~stefan.tapp/X11.jpg

[Zog The Undeniable]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.

Nissan, Rover and TVR have also used it on some of their cars. The
Nissan paint is 110UKP a tin according to the dealership. Rover have
the best colour - it's used on the rather evil-looking MG ZTT.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~stefan.tapp/X11.jpg

[rosco]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" > wrote in message
...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>

The base supplier of this paint technology is Flex Products
(http://www.colorshift.com/). They sell their ChromaFlair pigments to a
number of different paint producers (DuPont-ChromaLusion, PPG-Harlequin,
....) who then in turn sell to the public. I believe it adds about $100 -
$200 to the cost of painting a bicycle. It is so expensive, it is sold by
the ounce.

[rosco]

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" > wrote in message
...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
>

The base supplier of this paint technology is Flex Products
(http://www.colorshift.com/). They sell their ChromaFlair pigments to a
number of different paint producers (DuPont-ChromaLusion, PPG-Harlequin,
....) who then in turn sell to the public. I believe it adds about $100 -
$200 to the cost of painting a bicycle. It is so expensive, it is sold by
the ounce.

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

Wow! Thanks for the info. I think I'll let a pro handle this job, if I
choose to go that route. I'll check with my LBS, he's good at getting
deals (my $2500 (msrp.) Rocky for $1100, for example).

Maybe he can pull off another miracle. If not, I have other ideas...

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

Wow! Thanks for the info. I think I'll let a pro handle this job, if I
choose to go that route. I'll check with my LBS, he's good at getting
deals (my $2500 (msrp.) Rocky for $1100, for example).

Maybe he can pull off another miracle. If not, I have other ideas...

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Mark]

Hi Chris, Actually, this kind of paint job has been around quite a
long time. Years ago, the old hot roddders used to call this type of
paint job "Flip-Flop".

The other poster mentions harlequin whish is what it is technically
called.

As far as cars go, the sky's the limit.

I'm quite sure Cycle Art does this type of Paint work (Basically,
they'll do anything you want) Also, they'll replace/make virtually any
decal you have on the bike, so it doesn't look like an amateurish job.

I suspect an easy $450-500 for work such as this. If your frame is a
valuable one, when you think of it, it's not too bad a price, as there
certainly is lots of work involved. Today, they make so many gorgeous
paints, it's amazing what is out there now. Mark

(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message >...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Mark]

Hi Chris, Actually, this kind of paint job has been around quite a
long time. Years ago, the old hot roddders used to call this type of
paint job "Flip-Flop".

The other poster mentions harlequin whish is what it is technically
called.

As far as cars go, the sky's the limit.

I'm quite sure Cycle Art does this type of Paint work (Basically,
they'll do anything you want) Also, they'll replace/make virtually any
decal you have on the bike, so it doesn't look like an amateurish job.

I suspect an easy $450-500 for work such as this. If your frame is a
valuable one, when you think of it, it's not too bad a price, as there
certainly is lots of work involved. Today, they make so many gorgeous
paints, it's amazing what is out there now. Mark

(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message >...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
> type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
> when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
> decide.
>
> 1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;
>
> 2. How expensive?
>
> 3. Can it be done "at home"? Assuming
> one has the proper equipment
> (compressor, paint gun). How complex
> is the process, and where could I learn
> how?
>
> 4. What color combinations are available?
> I would like something like green/cyan.
>
> Again, TIA
>
> - -
>
> "May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!"
>
> Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
>
> Chris'Z Corner
> http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[BaCardi]

A Muzi wrote:
> A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be aligned
> with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> any auto paint wholesaler in your area.
> --
> Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971



I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bik
frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wantin
to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster


-

[BaCardi]

A Muzi wrote:
> A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be aligned
> with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> any auto paint wholesaler in your area.
> --
> Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971



I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bik
frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wantin
to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster


-

[Phil Brown]

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster

Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists run stop signs." Oh,
wait...
Phil Brown

[Phil Brown]

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster

Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists run stop signs." Oh,
wait...
Phil Brown

[BaCardi]

Phil Brown wrote:
> >I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> >frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> >to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster
> Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists run stop
> signs." Oh, wait... Phil Brown


OK, so even if we agree that a small percentage of automotive painter
know what they are doing with regards to painting a bike frame, how doe
the original poster know which auto painter to select. Its still a cra
shoot. My advice is go with the actual professional bike painters an
quit trying to save a buck. Bike painters make their living doing thi
stuff and have experience with hundreds of frames and not just th
neighbor's old Huffy


-

[BaCardi]

Phil Brown wrote:
> >I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> >frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> >to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster
> Some do. It's as unfair a generalization as "All cyclists run stop
> signs." Oh, wait... Phil Brown


OK, so even if we agree that a small percentage of automotive painter
know what they are doing with regards to painting a bike frame, how doe
the original poster know which auto painter to select. Its still a cra
shoot. My advice is go with the actual professional bike painters an
quit trying to save a buck. Bike painters make their living doing thi
stuff and have experience with hundreds of frames and not just th
neighbor's old Huffy


-

[Dave Thompson]

"BaCardi" > wrote in message
.. .
> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be
aligned
> > with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> > any auto paint wholesaler in your area.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
>
>
>
>
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.
>
>

Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint WHOLESALER....." not auto
paint SHOP.

[Dave Thompson]

"BaCardi" > wrote in message
.. .
> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be
aligned
> > with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> > any auto paint wholesaler in your area.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
>
>
>
>
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.
>
>

Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint WHOLESALER....." not auto
paint SHOP.

[BaCardi]

Dave Thompson wrote:
> Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint WHOLESALER....." not auto
> paint SHOP.


So what? Even worse, what's an auto paint shop going to tell you? Go t
an auto painter

Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the intricacies o
painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss or the Spectrum in Colorado o
Airglow? Quit trying to save a buck and go with an actual frame painter


-

[BaCardi]

Dave Thompson wrote:
> Note: Mr. Muzi said "Check with any auto paint WHOLESALER....." not auto
> paint SHOP.


So what? Even worse, what's an auto paint shop going to tell you? Go t
an auto painter

Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the intricacies o
painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss or the Spectrum in Colorado o
Airglow? Quit trying to save a buck and go with an actual frame painter


-

[Matt O'Toole]

BaCardi wrote:

> Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the intricacies
> of painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss or the Spectrum in
> Colorado or Airglow? Quit trying to save a buck and go with an actual
> frame painter.

If you want to save a buck, get your frame powdercoated. I've seen reports here
of excellent powdercoat jobs for under $150. These days it looks really good,
better than most factory paint jobs. And while it's not as perfect as a
polyurethane job from one of the painters mentioned above, it may be more
durable.

It would be well worth it to dig up some old threads about powdercoating.

Matt O.

[Matt O'Toole]

BaCardi wrote:

> Two words for you. Joe Bell. The man knows bikes and the intricacies
> of painting them. Or how about Brian Bayliss or the Spectrum in
> Colorado or Airglow? Quit trying to save a buck and go with an actual
> frame painter.

If you want to save a buck, get your frame powdercoated. I've seen reports here
of excellent powdercoat jobs for under $150. These days it looks really good,
better than most factory paint jobs. And while it's not as perfect as a
polyurethane job from one of the painters mentioned above, it may be more
durable.

It would be well worth it to dig up some old threads about powdercoating.

Matt O.

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be aligned
> > with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> > any auto paint wholesaler in your area.

BaCardi wrote:
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

We don't disagree.
I have painted plenty of both and you are exactly correct -
most panel painters can't do tubes well at all.

But he was asking for paint, not a painter. And paint comes
from auto paint wholesalers, just as I wrote. They will
accommodate a casual sale here and there to an amateur.

You responded to something in your mind, not in my text.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
> > A metallic additive , similar to MetalFlake, is shot so as to be aligned
> > with an electrostatic charge. Then a pearl rinse with clear. Check at
> > any auto paint wholesaler in your area.

BaCardi wrote:
> I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
> frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
> to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

We don't disagree.
I have painted plenty of both and you are exactly correct -
most panel painters can't do tubes well at all.

But he was asking for paint, not a painter. And paint comes
from auto paint wholesalers, just as I wrote. They will
accommodate a casual sale here and there to an amateur.

You responded to something in your mind, not in my text.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
>type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
>when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
>decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;

If it is patented, it doesn't belong to Cannondale. I've see a couple of
cars with this type of paint job. The one I recall was green and purple.
As the car came up besides you it was green and then the color changed to
purple as it went away. I would not paint my car in those colors, but
to each his own.
---------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job. The
>type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a different color
>when the angle is changed. And I have some questions about it before I
>decide.
>
>1. I have only seen this on certain bikes
> (Cannondale?). is it a patented
> process, therefore unavailable to the
> general public? If not;

If it is patented, it doesn't belong to Cannondale. I've see a couple of
cars with this type of paint job. The one I recall was green and purple.
As the car came up besides you it was green and then the color changed to
purple as it went away. I would not paint my car in those colors, but
to each his own.
---------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
>version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
>an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
>type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
>$1000!

For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.
---------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
>version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
>an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
>type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
>$1000!

For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.
---------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
---------------
Alex

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article >,
says...

>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
---------------
Alex

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> says...
>
> >Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
> >version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
> >an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
> >type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
> >$1000!
>
> For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.

He was saying just the paint itself is $1k, not including having the
work done.


--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> says...
>
> >Serotta uses a color-shifting paint they call Harlequin & Klein has their
> >version. I've seen similar paint jobs on Chrysler and Ford products. Go to
> >an automotive paint suplly store (PPG comes to mind). I do know that this
> >type of paint is VERY expensive. I believe enough to do a car is close to
> >$1000!
>
> For a car, $1k to do a good paint job is actually cheap.

He was saying just the paint itself is $1k, not including having the
work done.


--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

[S o r n i]

Anyone else see this as time to REPENT again?!?

No? Never mind...

Bill "therapy bound?" S.

[S o r n i]

Anyone else see this as time to REPENT again?!?

No? Never mind...

Bill "therapy bound?" S.

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:31:10 -0400, Alex Rodriguez >
wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>
>>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.
>
>Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
>can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
>---------------
>Alex

What can go wrong- runs, drips, overspray, uneven paint thickness when
dealing with pigments sensitive to this, bad timing with catalyzed
paints because of the intricacies in painting a frame.... And all of
this assumes good prep work on the stripped frame.

My work involves painting lots of things, from panels to intricate
industrial prototypes. Using all sorts of paints over the years. A
bicycle frame is *the* most difficult thing I have painted. The
combination of tubes, angles, and intersections is a huge series of
places to make mistakes. I've done four frames so far; I figure
another four to six frames and I'll have it figured out.

Not to say that any specific auto body painter isn't capable. But I'd
be careful. There are some serious differences between painting a car
and painting a bicycle.

[Dan Daniel]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:31:10 -0400, Alex Rodriguez >
wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>
>>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.
>
>Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
>can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
>---------------
>Alex

What can go wrong- runs, drips, overspray, uneven paint thickness when
dealing with pigments sensitive to this, bad timing with catalyzed
paints because of the intricacies in painting a frame.... And all of
this assumes good prep work on the stripped frame.

My work involves painting lots of things, from panels to intricate
industrial prototypes. Using all sorts of paints over the years. A
bicycle frame is *the* most difficult thing I have painted. The
combination of tubes, angles, and intersections is a huge series of
places to make mistakes. I've done four frames so far; I figure
another four to six frames and I'll have it figured out.

Not to say that any specific auto body painter isn't capable. But I'd
be careful. There are some serious differences between painting a car
and painting a bicycle.

[Rob Weinstock]

> >Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
> >can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
> >---------------
> >Alex
>
> What can go wrong- runs, drips, overspray, uneven paint thickness when
> dealing with pigments sensitive to this, bad timing with catalyzed
> paints because of the intricacies in painting a frame.... And all of
> this assumes good prep work on the stripped frame.
>
> My work involves painting lots of things, from panels to intricate
> industrial prototypes. Using all sorts of paints over the years. A
> bicycle frame is *the* most difficult thing I have painted. The
> combination of tubes, angles, and intersections is a huge series of
> places to make mistakes. I've done four frames so far; I figure
> another four to six frames and I'll have it figured out.
>
> Not to say that any specific auto body painter isn't capable. But I'd
> be careful. There are some serious differences between painting a car
> and painting a bicycle.

I'm having very good results with simple Duplicolor automotive spray
paints. They come premixed in a plain old spray can. You can choose
between lacquer (more color choices), and enamel (more durable, but
fewer colors). No urethanes available from Duplicolor. I went with
lacquer, based on available color choice. An auto paint shop will also
mix paint and package it in a spray can for you.

You CAN get very good results if you take your time and prepare well.

So far it looks great, cost $30 for materials. I'll have to see how it
holds up to paint chips.

Regards,

Rob

[Rob Weinstock]

> >Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
> >can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.
> >---------------
> >Alex
>
> What can go wrong- runs, drips, overspray, uneven paint thickness when
> dealing with pigments sensitive to this, bad timing with catalyzed
> paints because of the intricacies in painting a frame.... And all of
> this assumes good prep work on the stripped frame.
>
> My work involves painting lots of things, from panels to intricate
> industrial prototypes. Using all sorts of paints over the years. A
> bicycle frame is *the* most difficult thing I have painted. The
> combination of tubes, angles, and intersections is a huge series of
> places to make mistakes. I've done four frames so far; I figure
> another four to six frames and I'll have it figured out.
>
> Not to say that any specific auto body painter isn't capable. But I'd
> be careful. There are some serious differences between painting a car
> and painting a bicycle.

I'm having very good results with simple Duplicolor automotive spray
paints. They come premixed in a plain old spray can. You can choose
between lacquer (more color choices), and enamel (more durable, but
fewer colors). No urethanes available from Duplicolor. I went with
lacquer, based on available color choice. An auto paint shop will also
mix paint and package it in a spray can for you.

You CAN get very good results if you take your time and prepare well.

So far it looks great, cost $30 for materials. I'll have to see how it
holds up to paint chips.

Regards,

Rob

[A Muzi]

> In article >,
> says...
>>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
> can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.


In a rare moment of Bacardi offering something useful (
albeit inappropriate to the thread), he had a point.

Guys who are used to shooting panels have a hard time
spraying tubes without a combination of _both_ orange peel
and sag. It's a very different technique. Not impossible -
I've done both - but you get used to one style and it's
really hard to change over.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

> In article >,
> says...
>>I disagree. Auto painters don't know what they are doing with bike
>>frames and could really screw up something like what the OP is wanting
>>to get done. Auto painter + bike frame = paint recipe for disaster.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> Disaster??? Assuming they strip the frame properly, what is the worst they
> can do? Get paint on the threads? Easily fixed with a tap.


In a rare moment of Bacardi offering something useful (
albeit inappropriate to the thread), he had a point.

Guys who are used to shooting panels have a hard time
spraying tubes without a combination of _both_ orange peel
and sag. It's a very different technique. Not impossible -
I've done both - but you get used to one style and it's
really hard to change over.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[David Wuertele]

Chris> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint
Chris> job. The type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and
Chris> a different color when the angle is changed.

How about one which is reflective?

http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape.jpg
http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape-flash.jpg

(make sure to look at them in order!)

Took me about fifteen hours and $30 worth of reflective tape.

Dave

[David Wuertele]

Chris> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint
Chris> job. The type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and
Chris> a different color when the angle is changed.

How about one which is reflective?

http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape.jpg
http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape-flash.jpg

(make sure to look at them in order!)

Took me about fifteen hours and $30 worth of reflective tape.

Dave

[BaCardi]

David Wuertele wrote:
> Chris> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color- change" paint
> Chris> job. The type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a
> Chris> different color when the angle is changed.
> How about one which is reflective?
> http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-
> bartape.jpghttp://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape.jpg[/url] http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape-
> "]http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape- flash.jpg
> (make sure to look at them in order!)
> Took me about fifteen hours and $30 worth of reflective tape.
> Dave



You have too much free time during the day


-

[BaCardi]

David Wuertele wrote:
> Chris> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color- change" paint
> Chris> job. The type that is one color when viewed from one angle, and a
> Chris> different color when the angle is changed.
> How about one which is reflective?
> http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-
> bartape.jpghttp://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape.jpg[/url] http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape-
> "]http://tdf04.net/blog/photo/with-pump-bartape- flash.jpg
> (make sure to look at them in order!)
> Took me about fifteen hours and $30 worth of reflective tape.
> Dave



You have too much free time during the day


-

[dan baker]

(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message >...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job.
> 2. How expensive?
-----

depends... you can spray it yourself, but it won't be very durable
unless you also are good at clear-coating. paints are available in a
can at places like:
http://www.hobbytron.net/RC-Car-Bodies-Paints.html

autopainter can also do it, but may not have the right nozzles, etc
for small tubes compared to panels they usually do.

d

[dan baker]

(Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") wrote in message >...
> This time I'm toying with the idea of a "color-change" paint job.
> 2. How expensive?
-----

depends... you can spray it yourself, but it won't be very durable
unless you also are good at clear-coating. paints are available in a
can at places like:
http://www.hobbytron.net/RC-Car-Bodies-Paints.html

autopainter can also do it, but may not have the right nozzles, etc
for small tubes compared to panels they usually do.

d

[Andrews Powder Coating, Inc.]

We invite you to learn more about the wonderful process of
powdercoating by visiting www.powdercoater.com and going to the FAQ
page!

Andrews Powder Coating, Inc.
www.powdercoater.com