fenders...

[Nate Nagel[_2_]]

any favorites?

This afternoon I was thinking to myself, "self, I feel like I could use
a ride." Looked outside, was starting to rain. Reevaluated; realized
the lack of fenders was the last excuse left on my list for not riding
more. Trucked myself over to Ye Olde Bike Shoppe and they had some
Planet Bike things which I picked up. They look like they'll work, and
possibly well, but I will have to use some serious cobbling powers to
make them work, for several reasons:

1) the tab on the front fender is too short to reach the hole through
the top of the fork and still keep the fender near the tire. If I just
put it on as is, it fouls the brake cables (cantilevers) and I'd
probably start worrying about toe clearance.

2) I'm going to have to grind off the clip at the front of the rear
fender and zip tie that part on (to be fair, the instructions do admit
to this possibility.)

3) All the hardware is non-stainless (so I'll have to replace it on
principle,) and to boot, the bolt to go through the fork is too short.

4) My frame does not even have a hole for conventional rear brakes, it's
strictly cantilever-only. However, there is a threaded hole that could
be used to directly mount the fender to the frame with only a spacer
instead of the silly plastic clip. (this is a Cannondale CX frame that
I'm slowly turning into a commuter/errand bike)

I can make these work, I'm sure of that... question is, should I bother?
Or are there some better fenders out there that I haven't been exposed
to yet?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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[RonSonic]

On Sun, 24 May 2009 18:02:22 -0400, Nate Nagel > wrote:

>any favorites?
>
>This afternoon I was thinking to myself, "self, I feel like I could use
>a ride." Looked outside, was starting to rain. Reevaluated; realized
>the lack of fenders was the last excuse left on my list for not riding
>more. Trucked myself over to Ye Olde Bike Shoppe and they had some
>Planet Bike things which I picked up. They look like they'll work, and
>possibly well, but I will have to use some serious cobbling powers to
>make them work, for several reasons:
>
>1) the tab on the front fender is too short to reach the hole through
>the top of the fork and still keep the fender near the tire. If I just
>put it on as is, it fouls the brake cables (cantilevers) and I'd
>probably start worrying about toe clearance.
>
>2) I'm going to have to grind off the clip at the front of the rear
>fender and zip tie that part on (to be fair, the instructions do admit
>to this possibility.)
>
>3) All the hardware is non-stainless (so I'll have to replace it on
>principle,) and to boot, the bolt to go through the fork is too short.
>
>4) My frame does not even have a hole for conventional rear brakes, it's
>strictly cantilever-only. However, there is a threaded hole that could
>be used to directly mount the fender to the frame with only a spacer
>instead of the silly plastic clip. (this is a Cannondale CX frame that
>I'm slowly turning into a commuter/errand bike)
>
>I can make these work, I'm sure of that... question is, should I bother?
> Or are there some better fenders out there that I haven't been exposed
>to yet?

When discussing "fenders" Planet Bike is pretty much normative in the US. There
are fancier ones but those work. These guys might have some hardware you're
wanting: http://www.velo-orange.com/fenders.html

Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.

[Nate Nagel[_2_]]

landotter wrote:
> On May 24, 7:25 pm, RonSonic > wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 May 2009 18:02:22 -0400, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>> any favorites?
>>> This afternoon I was thinking to myself, "self, I feel like I could use
>>> a ride." Looked outside, was starting to rain. Reevaluated; realized
>>> the lack of fenders was the last excuse left on my list for not riding
>>> more. Trucked myself over to Ye Olde Bike Shoppe and they had some
>>> Planet Bike things which I picked up. They look like they'll work, and
>>> possibly well, but I will have to use some serious cobbling powers to
>>> make them work, for several reasons:
>>> 1) the tab on the front fender is too short to reach the hole through
>>> the top of the fork and still keep the fender near the tire. If I just
>>> put it on as is, it fouls the brake cables (cantilevers) and I'd
>>> probably start worrying about toe clearance.
>>> 2) I'm going to have to grind off the clip at the front of the rear
>>> fender and zip tie that part on (to be fair, the instructions do admit
>>> to this possibility.)
>>> 3) All the hardware is non-stainless (so I'll have to replace it on
>>> principle,) and to boot, the bolt to go through the fork is too short.
>>> 4) My frame does not even have a hole for conventional rear brakes, it's
>>> strictly cantilever-only. However, there is a threaded hole that could
>>> be used to directly mount the fender to the frame with only a spacer
>>> instead of the silly plastic clip. (this is a Cannondale CX frame that
>>> I'm slowly turning into a commuter/errand bike)
>>> I can make these work, I'm sure of that... question is, should I bother?
>>> Or are there some better fenders out there that I haven't been exposed
>>> to yet?
>> When discussing "fenders" Planet Bike is pretty much normative in the US.
>
> Tip: if your shop doesn't have the Cascadia in stock--just grab some
> hardcores. You can upgrade to Cascadia flaps for $5--and they make a
> load of difference.
>
>> There
>> are fancier ones but those work. These guys might have some hardware you're
>> wanting:http://www.velo-orange.com/fenders.html
>>
>
> The VO aluminum fenders are the best deal going. I like the smooth and
> fluted. $50 for metal fenders and hardware is a steal. They are harder
> to install, as you need to drill your holes, but you're probably not
> daunted, and they're so long that you can't pull the front wheel and
> rest the bike on the fork. Of course, you could mount them with a long
> extension in front of the fork with just the most minimal clearance
> with the wheel pulled, plus a leather flap that would fold. Metal
> fenders look the bomb--but if you slap your bike up against a rack all
> the time in the city, I'd personally go for polycarbonate. SKS and PB
> both make silver models.
>
>
>> Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
>> casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
>> ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>
> The lack of a chainstay bridge can make cross bike install a real
> bitch. Not impossible, but hard to diagnose without seeing the bike.
>
> On my city scoot I've got the Cascadias mounted normal in front, the
> bracket behind the fork. In rear I dispensed with the plastic clip at
> the brake bridge, which I tapped on the underside, then drilled a hole
> in the fender, and ran a bolt through the fender, some spacers (v-
> brake washers), then into the bridge. Clean! At the chainstay bridge,
> I drilled out the metal clip and did the same thing with a bolt and
> washers. Rattle free fenders are worth the hassle.
>

how's that work for you? That sounds exactly like what I was thinking
of doing. I have no "brake bridge" per se, the top stays look for all
the world like a little fork, with a single oval tube splitting into two
where the brake bridge would be. Where I'm envisioning that you drilled
your hole, I already have a nutsert in the frame. Rather than using
washers, I was thinking of nylon spacer stock, cut to length and roughly
notched with a bench grinder. So if your setup works well, sounds like
I just need to follow my muse. Only real gotcha will be fabbing a
longer tab for the front fender, but if I can find some sheet stainless
at the Despot (only hdwe. store likely to be open tomorrow) I ought to
be able to hook that up fairly easily. ASSuming that they have
restocked their bin of button head stainless screws that is.

Come to think of it, I do have a nutsert tool, so I could easily put a
nutsert in the chainstay bridge too. (yes, I have one - the problem is
that the welds are filleted so much that the clip won't go over it.)

Of course, I was eyeing the LHT at the bike store while I was picking up
the fenders... granted, it's close to 3x what I paid for my bike, and I
don't even know if it's *really* any better... but it's new... and
shiny... and has all sorts of tabs and braze ons and whatnot all over
the place... (and wider gears, too, although I do have two sets of
chainrings for my bike. I'm thinking of putting the CX rings back on
for a while, because apparently "taking it easy" for a while has gotten
me to the point where I'm really using my lowest gear to pull some of
the hills around here.)

No, I'm not serious about it. I just like looking at shiny stuff. Kind
of like the '62 Newport I saw for sale while I was out for a ride...
thing's so ugly it's cool. I'd have to invest in a comfy couch if I
dragged that home though.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[AMuzi]

landotter wrote:
> On May 24, 7:25 pm, RonSonic > wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 May 2009 18:02:22 -0400, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>> any favorites?
>>> This afternoon I was thinking to myself, "self, I feel like I could use
>>> a ride." Looked outside, was starting to rain. Reevaluated; realized
>>> the lack of fenders was the last excuse left on my list for not riding
>>> more. Trucked myself over to Ye Olde Bike Shoppe and they had some
>>> Planet Bike things which I picked up. They look like they'll work, and
>>> possibly well, but I will have to use some serious cobbling powers to
>>> make them work, for several reasons:
>>> 1) the tab on the front fender is too short to reach the hole through
>>> the top of the fork and still keep the fender near the tire. If I just
>>> put it on as is, it fouls the brake cables (cantilevers) and I'd
>>> probably start worrying about toe clearance.
>>> 2) I'm going to have to grind off the clip at the front of the rear
>>> fender and zip tie that part on (to be fair, the instructions do admit
>>> to this possibility.)
>>> 3) All the hardware is non-stainless (so I'll have to replace it on
>>> principle,) and to boot, the bolt to go through the fork is too short.
>>> 4) My frame does not even have a hole for conventional rear brakes, it's
>>> strictly cantilever-only. However, there is a threaded hole that could
>>> be used to directly mount the fender to the frame with only a spacer
>>> instead of the silly plastic clip. (this is a Cannondale CX frame that
>>> I'm slowly turning into a commuter/errand bike)
>>> I can make these work, I'm sure of that... question is, should I bother?
>>> Or are there some better fenders out there that I haven't been exposed
>>> to yet?
>> When discussing "fenders" Planet Bike is pretty much normative in the US.
>
> Tip: if your shop doesn't have the Cascadia in stock--just grab some
> hardcores. You can upgrade to Cascadia flaps for $5--and they make a
> load of difference.
>
>> There
>> are fancier ones but those work. These guys might have some hardware you're
>> wanting:http://www.velo-orange.com/fenders.html
>>
>
> The VO aluminum fenders are the best deal going. I like the smooth and
> fluted. $50 for metal fenders and hardware is a steal. They are harder
> to install, as you need to drill your holes, but you're probably not
> daunted, and they're so long that you can't pull the front wheel and
> rest the bike on the fork. Of course, you could mount them with a long
> extension in front of the fork with just the most minimal clearance
> with the wheel pulled, plus a leather flap that would fold. Metal
> fenders look the bomb--but if you slap your bike up against a rack all
> the time in the city, I'd personally go for polycarbonate. SKS and PB
> both make silver models.
>
>
>> Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
>> casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
>> ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>
> The lack of a chainstay bridge can make cross bike install a real
> bitch. Not impossible, but hard to diagnose without seeing the bike.
>
> On my city scoot I've got the Cascadias mounted normal in front, the
> bracket behind the fork. In rear I dispensed with the plastic clip at
> the brake bridge, which I tapped on the underside, then drilled a hole
> in the fender, and ran a bolt through the fender, some spacers (v-
> brake washers), then into the bridge. Clean! At the chainstay bridge,
> I drilled out the metal clip and did the same thing with a bolt and
> washers. Rattle free fenders are worth the hassle.


I attached the mudguard to my seat tube with a ziptie. The
mudguard just passes between the stays where there is no bridge.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/AMKEST.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Bernhard Agthe]

Hi,

landotter wrote:
> On May 24, 8:50 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
[Fender mounting problems]

Don't worry, this is "normal" - mounting fenders is something, even the
most hardened bike shop mechanic dread ;-) OK, that may be exaggerated,
but quite often it's a very creative job...

> I hate that clip--it's a kludge. I know why fender companies use them
> on cheap stuff--as it fits most, but it's just not secure. If you
> drill out the pop rivets and remove it, you can make it tight and
> clean with the nutserts.

Oh, the clip works fine, as long as there is no load on it. I have a
taillight (fender-mount) with a wire cage to protect the light. The
light assembly is so heavy that it breaks either the clip or the fender
next to the (reinforced) clip. In my case the solution was to fumble an
additional support to the rear rack into place. Now there is so little
load on the clip, that it works ;-)

In the essence, take your time mounting the fenders, be prepared for
some try-and-error at first, but once you've got it right, they'll last.

>> (and wider gears, too, although I do have two sets of
>> chainrings for my bike. I'm thinking of putting the CX rings back on
>> for a while, because apparently "taking it easy" for a while has gotten
>> me to the point where I'm really using my lowest gear to pull some of
>> the hills around here.)

Well, slow gears on hills are a good idea, at least if you've got knee
problems (or are susceptible to)...

Have fun..

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per RonSonic:
>Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
>casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
>ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.

Probably not applicable to 'cross bikes, but has anybody seen
fenders that mount to brake bosses?

I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
treads.
--
PeteCresswell

[jim beam[_5_]]

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per RonSonic:
>> Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
>> casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
>> ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>
> Probably not applicable to 'cross bikes, but has anybody seen
> fenders that mount to brake bosses?
>
> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
> treads.

you don't want close clearance on a fender unless you want to risk an endo.

an incredibly common mistake/misconception is that to get best coverage,
you need the fender close. that's incorrect. what you /really/ need is
the fender to cover the fling tangent - something many don't seem to
either realize or cover with their fenders.

[carlfogel@comcast.net[_2_]]

On May 25, 1:10*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
> Per RonSonic:
>
> >Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
> >casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
> >ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>
> Probably not applicable to 'cross bikes, but has anybody seen
> fenders that mount to brake bosses?
>
> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
> treads.
> --
> PeteCresswell

Dear Pete,

You mean a low-mount trials-motorcycle front fender like this?

http://www.gasgas.com/bikes/09_raga_side_a.jpg

They attach to bosses cast into the lower forks:

http://i39.tinypic.com/jharlu.jpg

The far gray fender uses the standard combination of stamped metal
straps and a plastic fender. The near orange one is a more substantial
replacement lower fork brace.

They work fine at much higher speeds and much worse mud and debris
than bicycles see.

The idea is that a trials rider wants to see the fender moving with
his front wheel, not a fender fixed half a foot above it.

I've never seen a low-mount suspension MTB fender, but I'll keep an
eye out.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

[landotter]

On May 25, 3:10*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
> Per RonSonic:
>
> >Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
> >casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
> >ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>
> Probably not applicable to 'cross bikes, but has anybody seen
> fenders that mount to brake bosses?
>
> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
> treads.
> --
That oughtta be a piece of cake to rig up. I'm thinking you might be
able to use a brake booster in there somewhere.

[Nate Nagel[_2_]]

landotter wrote:
> On May 25, 3:10 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" > wrote:
>> Per RonSonic:
>>
>>> Cross bikes are all over the map as far as suitability for fenders and other
>>> casual riding amenities. Some are so hardcore they don't even have bottle braze
>>> ons others have the full set of fender and rack eyes.
>> Probably not applicable to 'cross bikes, but has anybody seen
>> fenders that mount to brake bosses?
>>
>> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
>> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
>> treads.
>> --
> That oughtta be a piece of cake to rig up. I'm thinking you might be
> able to use a brake booster in there somewhere.

I'm thinking of just a plate of stainless that goes between the cantis
and the bosses, and then provides you with a "fake brake hanger" for the
usual tab mount...?

meh, oughta work. I'd make you one just because I could, if I had the
tools. One of these days I need to become independently wealthy so I
can have a bigass old horse barn full of old cars and machine tools.
You'll never see me again if that happens :)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per landotter:
>> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
>> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
>> treads.
>> --
>That oughtta be a piece of cake to rig up. I'm thinking you might be
>able to use a brake booster in there somewhere.

Maybe, but I was also thinking a little bit along Jim Beam's line
of reasoning vis-a-vis the consequences of something going wrong
in a one-off-design by somebody (me) who can't even *spell*
"enginear".
--
PeteCresswell

[datakoll]

lotta energy over an outdated design doesn't function well.

[Nate Nagel[_2_]]

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per landotter:
>>> I'm looking for something that could be mounted on a sus fork
>>> that keeps the fender a constant (and small...) distance from the
>>> treads.
>>> --
>> That oughtta be a piece of cake to rig up. I'm thinking you might be
>> able to use a brake booster in there somewhere.
>
> Maybe, but I was also thinking a little bit along Jim Beam's line
> of reasoning vis-a-vis the consequences of something going wrong
> in a one-off-design by somebody (me) who can't even *spell*
> "enginear".

What's the worst that could happen? A faceplant at 40 MPH? Bah! Do it! :P

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[dvt]

At 24 May 2009 18:02:22 -0400 Nate Nagel wrote:
> Trucked myself over to Ye Olde Bike Shoppe and they had some Planet
Bike things which I picked up.

I prefer the PB fenders to the SKS fenders for cold weather riding. The
SKS fenders crack when given a small impact if it's really cold. the PB
fenders are much better in that regard.

On the other hand, the PB fenders are more difficult to mount IME. And
the PB front fender is too short.

In short, I like the PB fender, but you may like the SKS.

--
Dave