Good Canti's, or go linear?

[neil0502]

The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars
and all cables. That all seems fine

Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked th
parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add u
quickly. I'd like to replace

My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the marke
right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option o
using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx
and installing a direct-pull brake

Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only t
tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, o
getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pull
just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent
gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on

TI

Nei


-

[Dan Daniel]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:42:09 GMT, neil0502
> wrote:

>The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars,
>and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
>Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the
>parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up
>quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
>My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
>right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
>using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
>and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
>tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
>getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
>just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
>gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?
>
>TIA
>
>Neil

One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I don't know if
this is because of the design or because lots of talkative people
don't know how to set them up....

I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have
linear/v-brake/direct pull on one bike and cantis on another (and dual
pivots on the road bike). Each is different, but both work well.
Unless you are having problems braking, feeling unsafe, I wouldn't
encourage you to go to direct pull.

I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go overboard
with the direct pull and come close to locking up a wheel when it
isn't a good thing to do. The direct pull take a more delicate touch.
A short range between just starting to brake and full pressure.

For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers for direct
pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up? I think that the
travel agents are worth looking at if you have integrated
brake/shifters, but if they are separate, just get new levers.

[Dan Daniel]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:42:09 GMT, neil0502
> wrote:

>The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars,
>and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
>Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the
>parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up
>quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
>My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
>right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
>using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
>and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
>tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
>getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
>just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
>gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?
>
>TIA
>
>Neil

One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I don't know if
this is because of the design or because lots of talkative people
don't know how to set them up....

I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have
linear/v-brake/direct pull on one bike and cantis on another (and dual
pivots on the road bike). Each is different, but both work well.
Unless you are having problems braking, feeling unsafe, I wouldn't
encourage you to go to direct pull.

I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go overboard
with the direct pull and come close to locking up a wheel when it
isn't a good thing to do. The direct pull take a more delicate touch.
A short range between just starting to brake and full pressure.

For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers for direct
pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up? I think that the
travel agents are worth looking at if you have integrated
brake/shifters, but if they are separate, just get new levers.

[Mark Hickey]

neil0502 > wrote:

>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
>tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
>getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
>just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
>gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I personally
prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I still run cantis on
the back of all my personal MTBs (though I had to switch to linear
brakes on the front because forks no longer come with cable hangers).

Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical advantage, and
are usually (not always) easier to set up.

Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the pads are
thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater pad to rim
clearance, which can come in handy if you tweak a wheel in the middle
of a ride/race.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Mark Hickey]

neil0502 > wrote:

>Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
>tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
>getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
>just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
>gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I personally
prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I still run cantis on
the back of all my personal MTBs (though I had to switch to linear
brakes on the front because forks no longer come with cable hangers).

Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical advantage, and
are usually (not always) easier to set up.

Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the pads are
thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater pad to rim
clearance, which can come in handy if you tweak a wheel in the middle
of a ride/race.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[neil0502]

wrote:
> Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I personally
> prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I still run cantis on the
> back of all my personal MTBs (though I had to switch to linear brakes on
> the front because forks no longer come with cable hangers).
> Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical advantage, and
> are usually (not always) easier to set up.
> Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the pads are
> thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater pad to rim clearance,
> which can come in handy if you tweak a wheel in the middle of a
> ride/race.
> Thanks, Dan. Great points, too.
> I noticed the same (squeal) issue cited almost universally regarding the
> XT V-brake. Hard to believe that you couldn't get around something like
> that with pads, proper setup, clean rims, etc., but maybe.... Had a
> squeal on the front Tektro canti (OEM) on my Cannondale tourer. C'Dale
> Wound up replacing the canti (Avids), the rim, then the whole frame
> before the squeal went away. Not anxious to re-visit that!
> My mtb has integrated brake levers/shifters. Sounds like new, decent
> cantis are the simplest approach.
> (...and Dan wrote):
> One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I don't know if
> this is because of the design or because lots of talkative people don't
> know how to set them up....
> I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have linear/v- brake/direct
> pull on one bike and cantis on another (and dual pivots on the road
> bike). Each is different, but both work well. Unless you are having
> problems braking, feeling unsafe, I wouldn't encourage you to go to
> direct pull.
> I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go overboard with
> the direct pull and come close to locking up a wheel when it isn't a
> good thing to do. The direct pull take a more delicate touch. A short
> range between just starting to brake and full pressure.
> For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers for direct
> pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up? I think that the travel
> agents are worth looking at if you have integrated brake/shifters, but
> if they are separate, just get new levers.

Thanks, Mark. Excellent points. I don't seem to have a problem settin
up the cantis. I used to have roller cam brakes on my prior mtb.
figure, if you can keep those adjusted, the rest is gravy

(Mark wrote)



-

[neil0502]

wrote:
> Cantis work fine (as long as they're set up right), and I personally
> prefer the "feel" to linear brakes. In fact, I still run cantis on the
> back of all my personal MTBs (though I had to switch to linear brakes on
> the front because forks no longer come with cable hangers).
> Linear brakes can have a slight advantage in mechanical advantage, and
> are usually (not always) easier to set up.
> Cantis tend to squeal less, have better modulation, and the pads are
> thicker (last longer). They also allow for greater pad to rim clearance,
> which can come in handy if you tweak a wheel in the middle of a
> ride/race.
> Thanks, Dan. Great points, too.
> I noticed the same (squeal) issue cited almost universally regarding the
> XT V-brake. Hard to believe that you couldn't get around something like
> that with pads, proper setup, clean rims, etc., but maybe.... Had a
> squeal on the front Tektro canti (OEM) on my Cannondale tourer. C'Dale
> Wound up replacing the canti (Avids), the rim, then the whole frame
> before the squeal went away. Not anxious to re-visit that!
> My mtb has integrated brake levers/shifters. Sounds like new, decent
> cantis are the simplest approach.
> (...and Dan wrote):
> One of the Avid cantis has a reputation for squealing. I don't know if
> this is because of the design or because lots of talkative people don't
> know how to set them up....
> I have no problems with cantilever brakes. I have linear/v- brake/direct
> pull on one bike and cantis on another (and dual pivots on the road
> bike). Each is different, but both work well. Unless you are having
> problems braking, feeling unsafe, I wouldn't encourage you to go to
> direct pull.
> I never feel unsafe with cantis, but I do occasionally go overboard with
> the direct pull and come close to locking up a wheel when it isn't a
> good thing to do. The direct pull take a more delicate touch. A short
> range between just starting to brake and full pressure.
> For the cost of the travel agents, you can get brake levers for direct
> pull brakes, can't you? Why clutter the bike up? I think that the travel
> agents are worth looking at if you have integrated brake/shifters, but
> if they are separate, just get new levers.

Thanks, Mark. Excellent points. I don't seem to have a problem settin
up the cantis. I used to have roller cam brakes on my prior mtb.
figure, if you can keep those adjusted, the rest is gravy

(Mark wrote)



-

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

neil-<< My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
and installing a direct-pull brake. >><BR><BR>

Save yer $ and get some nice cantis. No need for 'gizmos' and they work great.
Avids, Tektros, shimano-all really nice.

<< Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
tourers and obsolete MTB's? >><BR><BR>

Nope. V brakes are longer armed, more power but well set up cantis work just
fine...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

neil-<< My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
and installing a direct-pull brake. >><BR><BR>

Save yer $ and get some nice cantis. No need for 'gizmos' and they work great.
Avids, Tektros, shimano-all really nice.

<< Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
tourers and obsolete MTB's? >><BR><BR>

Nope. V brakes are longer armed, more power but well set up cantis work just
fine...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[Zog The Undeniable]

neil0502 wrote:

> The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars,
> and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
> Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the
> parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up
> quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
> My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
> right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
> using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
> tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
> getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
> just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
> gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

V-brakes are lovely, although you'll have to get the right levers. A
full Deore set including cables is very cheap and works better than
anything else I've tried. The LX and higher V-brakes have parallel push
arms, which can squeal like a pig if the pivots get sloppy. So
personally I'd have the V-brakes :-)

[Zog The Undeniable]

neil0502 wrote:

> The shifters on my old MTB blew out last week. Replaced them, the bars,
> and all cables. That all seems fine.
>
> Pulled off my cantilever brakes, f&r, greased studs, then looked the
> parts over. Pads have dry rot, hardware is rusted. Small parts add up
> quickly. I'd like to replace.
>
> My ?'s : Seems like there are some pretty good canti's on the market
> right now, reasonably priced (e.g., Avids). There's also the option of
> using a pulley gizmo (Sheldon Brown's article: http://tinyurl.com/37fcx)
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
> tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
> getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
> just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
> gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

V-brakes are lovely, although you'll have to get the right levers. A
full Deore set including cables is very cheap and works better than
anything else I've tried. The LX and higher V-brakes have parallel push
arms, which can squeal like a pig if the pivots get sloppy. So
personally I'd have the V-brakes :-)

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

I don't think V-Dapters are made any more, so Sheldon's (and my) canti
conversion is no longer an option, I believe. You could machine a piece
of aluminum to accept a Travel Agent. But it's clunky.

I recently switched out my V-Dapter canti converted uprights for a set
of Tektro mini-v's and with a travel agent they work perfectly, even
with STI road levers.

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/bikes/search?isrc=i-home-search&q=tektro+mini-v

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

I don't think V-Dapters are made any more, so Sheldon's (and my) canti
conversion is no longer an option, I believe. You could machine a piece
of aluminum to accept a Travel Agent. But it's clunky.

I recently switched out my V-Dapter canti converted uprights for a set
of Tektro mini-v's and with a travel agent they work perfectly, even
with STI road levers.

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/bikes/search?isrc=i-home-search&q=tektro+mini-v

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Peter Cole]

"neil0502" > wrote
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
> tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
> getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
> just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
> gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

I've switched a couple of bikes from canti to V, mostly because I got new
brifters with V levers and didn't want to screw around with a mechanical
advantage adjuster. I don't think it made any difference. Both types of brakes
seem to work identically.

[Peter Cole]

"neil0502" > wrote
> and installing a direct-pull brake.
>
> Are canti's dated technology, or a brake that's applicable only to
> tourers and obsolete MTB's? I never had a problem setting them up, or
> getting an appropriate degree of mechanical advantage. Are direct-pulls
> just a better design, and worth any compromise that the 'Travel Agent'
> gizmo might imply? Should the brake boss care which I put on?

I've switched a couple of bikes from canti to V, mostly because I got new
brifters with V levers and didn't want to screw around with a mechanical
advantage adjuster. I don't think it made any difference. Both types of brakes
seem to work identically.