Brooks saddles - comparison?

[Mark H.]

The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
saddles, but...how to choose?

There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
"aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...

Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.

Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
choose their particular model are very much welcome.

Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.

Thanks in advance.

[Keith Boone]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:20:34 +0000, Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I have a Brooks Team Professional that has not broken in after 10,000 km
of riding. The leather is just too thick. I recently bought a B17 and
after only 300 km I can feel it beginning to break in and soften up. I
like it so much, I ordered another one today for my second bike. I use
only Brooks Proofide for treating the leather, so it is possible that the
Team Professional might break in if soaked in oil as some people suggest.

[Keith Boone]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:20:34 +0000, Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.

I have a Brooks Team Professional that has not broken in after 10,000 km
of riding. The leather is just too thick. I recently bought a B17 and
after only 300 km I can feel it beginning to break in and soften up. I
like it so much, I ordered another one today for my second bike. I use
only Brooks Proofide for treating the leather, so it is possible that the
Team Professional might break in if soaked in oil as some people suggest.

[Nick Payne]

Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two bikes, B-17 on
one, Pro S on one. None of them are uncomfortable - I've sat on all of
them for brevets of several hundred kilometres without discomfort. I
found the wider ones - the B-17 and Pro S - more immediately
comfortable. First ride out of the box they feel good. The Pro and Swift
seem to take a couple of months of use to reach the same point.

I'm 178cm and 65kg, so fairly skinny.

Nick

[Nick Payne]

Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two bikes, B-17 on
one, Pro S on one. None of them are uncomfortable - I've sat on all of
them for brevets of several hundred kilometres without discomfort. I
found the wider ones - the B-17 and Pro S - more immediately
comfortable. First ride out of the box they feel good. The Pro and Swift
seem to take a couple of months of use to reach the same point.

I'm 178cm and 65kg, so fairly skinny.

Nick

[dg]

I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately comfortable. It's black and
lighter than the standard. I think it looks fine on a road bike. Have a
traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happy with both. BTW, only used
proofhide as recommended by Brooks.

"Mark H." > wrote in message
...
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two,
some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17,
Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some
decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[dg]

I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately comfortable. It's black and
lighter than the standard. I think it looks fine on a road bike. Have a
traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happy with both. BTW, only used
proofhide as recommended by Brooks.

"Mark H." > wrote in message
...
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two,
some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17,
Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some
decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Steve Knight]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:18:30 GMT, Nick Payne > wrote:

>I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two bikes, B-17 on
>one, Pro S on one. None of them are uncomfortable -
I have been thinking of getting a swift I am a big guy and need a narrow saddle
to keep my crotch from rubbing. I have the team pro but it is pretty wide.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Steve Knight]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:18:30 GMT, Nick Payne > wrote:

>I presently have Brooks Pro on two bikes, Swifts on two bikes, B-17 on
>one, Pro S on one. None of them are uncomfortable -
I have been thinking of getting a swift I am a big guy and need a narrow saddle
to keep my crotch from rubbing. I have the team pro but it is pretty wide.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Steve Shapiro]

Originally posted by Dg I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediatel
comfortable. It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it look
fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happ
with both. BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks

"Mark H." > wrote in message news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04
news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04- news.ops.worldnet.att.net..
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countles
> hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgrou
> posts about Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, revea
> much about Brooks saddles, but...how to choose

snip Dg top posted: BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks

Why? I've got 2 B17 Champion Specials. These are B17s with thicke
leather on a steel frame. I like them both. When new, I dunked them i
neets foot oil for 20 to 30 minutes before using them. It's what I di
to my baseball gloves as a kid and it worked then. Also, Sheldon Brow
recommends it. Now, I can recommend it for saddles too

Of my B17s, one was comfortable from the start. The second was not
taking about 200 miles to "break in." The leather on the second had
stiffer feel (read hard as a rock) then the first. Neither saddle ha
sagged or required any tension adjustment, but only the first has an
miles on it (around 2K.

Steve Shapir


-

[Steve Shapiro]

Originally posted by Dg I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediatel
comfortable. It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it look
fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happ
with both. BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks

"Mark H." > wrote in message news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04
news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04- news.ops.worldnet.att.net..
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countles
> hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgrou
> posts about Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, revea
> much about Brooks saddles, but...how to choose

snip Dg top posted: BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks

Why? I've got 2 B17 Champion Specials. These are B17s with thicke
leather on a steel frame. I like them both. When new, I dunked them i
neets foot oil for 20 to 30 minutes before using them. It's what I di
to my baseball gloves as a kid and it worked then. Also, Sheldon Brow
recommends it. Now, I can recommend it for saddles too

Of my B17s, one was comfortable from the start. The second was not
taking about 200 miles to "break in." The leather on the second had
stiffer feel (read hard as a rock) then the first. Neither saddle ha
sagged or required any tension adjustment, but only the first has an
miles on it (around 2K.

Steve Shapir


-

[Bill Putnam]

"Mark H." > wrote in message >...
> ...how to choose?
....
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? ...
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

In my experience the variation between Brooks saddles even within a
specific model is a bigger factor than the difference between models.
I've had Brooks Pro's, B17's, and B72's, and each and every saddle was
unique, both in shape and thickness of the leather.

My first Brooks, a B17 narrow, I bought in 1979. I still use it on a
daily basis commuting. The leather on that saddle is fairly soft. I
bought another B17 narrow saddle about 10 years ago. The leather on
that saddle was substantially thicker, and I gave up trying to get it
to break in after two years of putting it on my commuting bike for a
few weeks, taking it off for a few weeks, and so on. I have three
Brooks Pro's and those have been generally comfortable but I suspect
this is by chance rather than the fact that they are Pro's vs. B17's.
I had two B72's on two different 3 speeds (upright bars) and with
these one saddle had much thicker leather than the other. Again, the
one with the thicker leather I found less comfortable than the one
with thinner leather.

I would encourage you to try out a Brooks saddle-a good bike shop will
let you do that if you're careful and don't scratch up the saddle. If
the first one isn't comfortable after a few days of at least moderate
length rides (say 30 miles) try a different one. What it comes down
to is that what is comfortable for one person may not be comfortable
for the next, and there is a substantial variation between each Brooks
saddle.

Note too that if you want your saddle to last it will take some care.
These saddles will be damaged if left out in the rain or if you ride
in the rain without fenders (mudguards). If you have a bike without
fenders at least put a plastic bag over the saddle and tie the bag
tight around the seatpost to keep it from getting soaked. I apply
Proofhide on occasion and have found that with these precautions
(along with not messing with the adjustment at the front of the
saddle) these saddles last a long time. I know that some day I may
wear out my first Brooks saddle, but with 25 years of nearly daily use
commuting, racing, and touring, and more use still left I consider
that to be a good value.

Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

Bill Putnam

[Bill Putnam]

"Mark H." > wrote in message >...
> ...how to choose?
....
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? ...
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

In my experience the variation between Brooks saddles even within a
specific model is a bigger factor than the difference between models.
I've had Brooks Pro's, B17's, and B72's, and each and every saddle was
unique, both in shape and thickness of the leather.

My first Brooks, a B17 narrow, I bought in 1979. I still use it on a
daily basis commuting. The leather on that saddle is fairly soft. I
bought another B17 narrow saddle about 10 years ago. The leather on
that saddle was substantially thicker, and I gave up trying to get it
to break in after two years of putting it on my commuting bike for a
few weeks, taking it off for a few weeks, and so on. I have three
Brooks Pro's and those have been generally comfortable but I suspect
this is by chance rather than the fact that they are Pro's vs. B17's.
I had two B72's on two different 3 speeds (upright bars) and with
these one saddle had much thicker leather than the other. Again, the
one with the thicker leather I found less comfortable than the one
with thinner leather.

I would encourage you to try out a Brooks saddle-a good bike shop will
let you do that if you're careful and don't scratch up the saddle. If
the first one isn't comfortable after a few days of at least moderate
length rides (say 30 miles) try a different one. What it comes down
to is that what is comfortable for one person may not be comfortable
for the next, and there is a substantial variation between each Brooks
saddle.

Note too that if you want your saddle to last it will take some care.
These saddles will be damaged if left out in the rain or if you ride
in the rain without fenders (mudguards). If you have a bike without
fenders at least put a plastic bag over the saddle and tie the bag
tight around the seatpost to keep it from getting soaked. I apply
Proofhide on occasion and have found that with these precautions
(along with not messing with the adjustment at the front of the
saddle) these saddles last a long time. I know that some day I may
wear out my first Brooks saddle, but with 25 years of nearly daily use
commuting, racing, and touring, and more use still left I consider
that to be a good value.

Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html

Bill Putnam

[dvt]

Mark H. wrote:
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift?

No one will be able to give you *the* perfect answer. It's too dependent
on the individual butt shape, riding position, and personal preference.

Regarding the Swift, I have one. I'm very similar in size, just slightly
taller and lighter than you. I find the Swift to be a bit on the narrow
side, but still fairly comfortable. I find the B66 too wide on a
drop-bar bike, but I'll bet it's pretty sweet for a more upright position.

I have only sampled the extremes (Swift = narrow and B66 = wide).
Someday I hope to work the middle ground, if, like you, I ever figure
out how to choose. They're too expensive for the old trial and error
routine.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

[dvt]

Mark H. wrote:
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift?

No one will be able to give you *the* perfect answer. It's too dependent
on the individual butt shape, riding position, and personal preference.

Regarding the Swift, I have one. I'm very similar in size, just slightly
taller and lighter than you. I find the Swift to be a bit on the narrow
side, but still fairly comfortable. I find the B66 too wide on a
drop-bar bike, but I'll bet it's pretty sweet for a more upright position.

I have only sampled the extremes (Swift = narrow and B66 = wide).
Someday I hope to work the middle ground, if, like you, I ever figure
out how to choose. They're too expensive for the old trial and error
routine.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

[Jack Fortune]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:20:34 GMT, "Mark H." >
wrote:

>The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
>days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
>Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
>saddles, but...how to choose?
>

Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:

http://www.wallbike.com/

You can order any Brooks saddle and try it. They offer a full refund
within six months if you don't find a saddle to your liking...

Jack Fortune
Eugene, Oregon

[Jack Fortune]

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:20:34 GMT, "Mark H." >
wrote:

>The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
>days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
>Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
>saddles, but...how to choose?
>

Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:

http://www.wallbike.com/

You can order any Brooks saddle and try it. They offer a full refund
within six months if you don't find a saddle to your liking...

Jack Fortune
Eugene, Oregon

[Zog The Undeniable]

Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

I have a "honey" Swift. It's comfortable, but probably not worth the
exorbitant cost compared to something like a Flite. A warning -
neatsfoot oil turns honey saddles rather dark brown!

[Zog The Undeniable]

Mark H. wrote:

> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.

I have a "honey" Swift. It's comfortable, but probably not worth the
exorbitant cost compared to something like a Flite. A warning -
neatsfoot oil turns honey saddles rather dark brown!

[Roy Zipris]

My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris

[Roy Zipris]

My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris

[Rick Warner]

"Mark H." > wrote in message >...
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.

In part it depends on the relationship between handlebar height and
seat height. You think your sit bones are not particularly wide, but
they are wider when seated more upright than when leaning more
forward. The B-17 is wider than the Swift, Team Pro, etc., and for a
number of people I know (me included) is the best choice as handlebar
height approaches, and goes above, seat height. If you have your bars
a couple of inches below seat height, then the narrow saddles are
better for most. Using a narrow saddle with the bars near or above
seat height will help you learn the meaning of the term 'arse
hatchet'.

- rick

[Rick Warner]

"Mark H." > wrote in message >...
> The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless hours,
> days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup posts about
> Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal much about Brooks
> saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> There're those that hate Brooks and those that love. Of the lovers, some
> found them comfortable right out of the box, others only after a couple
> thousand miles...some wave a can of Proofide at them every year or two, some
> soak them in brine for 12 hours before each ride...some need a wide
> platform, some narrow...some models are recommended for the more
> "aggressive" rider, then not...and so on, but...
>
> Me, I'm 6', 175 pounds and engage in club rides (training/recreational)
> every week, about 18 mph pace. I'm "average" build; my "sit bones" not
> wide, accommodating any of the Brooks models, I believe.
>
> Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
> Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
> ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>
> I haven't found much in the way of a comparative analysis between the
> models, what have I missed? Testimonials/advice about how folks came to
> choose their particular model are very much welcome.
>
> Sorry for potential repetitiveness of subject matter.
>
> Thanks in advance.

In part it depends on the relationship between handlebar height and
seat height. You think your sit bones are not particularly wide, but
they are wider when seated more upright than when leaning more
forward. The B-17 is wider than the Swift, Team Pro, etc., and for a
number of people I know (me included) is the best choice as handlebar
height approaches, and goes above, seat height. If you have your bars
a couple of inches below seat height, then the narrow saddles are
better for most. Using a narrow saddle with the bars near or above
seat height will help you learn the meaning of the term 'arse
hatchet'.

- rick

[DRS]

"Jack Fortune" > wrote in message

[...]

> Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:
>
> http://www.wallbike.com/

Their server is down.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[DRS]

"Jack Fortune" > wrote in message

[...]

> Contact the folks at Wallingford Bicycle Parts:
>
> http://www.wallbike.com/

Their server is down.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[dg]

Yes I did TP. Thanks for noticing.

"Steve Shapiro" > wrote in message
.. .
> Originally posted by Dg I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately
> comfortable. It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it looks
> fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happy
> with both. BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks.
>
> "Mark H." > wrote in message
news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
> news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04- news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless
> > hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup
> > posts about Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal
> > much about Brooks saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> snip Dg top posted: BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks.
>
> Why? I've got 2 B17 Champion Specials. These are B17s with thicker
> leather on a steel frame. I like them both. When new, I dunked them in
> neets foot oil for 20 to 30 minutes before using them. It's what I did
> to my baseball gloves as a kid and it worked then. Also, Sheldon Brown
> recommends it. Now, I can recommend it for saddles too.
>
> Of my B17s, one was comfortable from the start. The second was not,
> taking about 200 miles to "break in." The leather on the second had a
> stiffer feel (read hard as a rock) then the first. Neither saddle has
> sagged or required any tension adjustment, but only the first has any
> miles on it (around 2K.)
>
> Steve Shapiro
>
>
>
> --
>
>

[dg]

Yes I did TP. Thanks for noticing.

"Steve Shapiro" > wrote in message
.. .
> Originally posted by Dg I have the B17 Titanium. Almost immediately
> comfortable. It's black and lighter than the standard. I think it looks
> fine on a road bike. Have a traditional honey B17 on my mtb. Very happy
> with both. BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks.
>
> "Mark H." > wrote in message
news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04-
> news:6kkjc.49532$um3.974701@bgtnsc04- news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > The answer must be so simple that I'm looking past it. Countless
> > hours, days, spent perusing Google for the past 10 year's newsgroup
> > posts about Brooks saddles, plus the various dealers sites, reveal
> > much about Brooks saddles, but...how to choose?
>
> snip Dg top posted: BTW, only used proofhide as recommended by Brooks.
>
> Why? I've got 2 B17 Champion Specials. These are B17s with thicker
> leather on a steel frame. I like them both. When new, I dunked them in
> neets foot oil for 20 to 30 minutes before using them. It's what I did
> to my baseball gloves as a kid and it worked then. Also, Sheldon Brown
> recommends it. Now, I can recommend it for saddles too.
>
> Of my B17s, one was comfortable from the start. The second was not,
> taking about 200 miles to "break in." The leather on the second had a
> stiffer feel (read hard as a rock) then the first. Neither saddle has
> sagged or required any tension adjustment, but only the first has any
> miles on it (around 2K.)
>
> Steve Shapiro
>
>
>
> --
>
>

[Steve Knight]

On 27 Apr 2004 10:11:58 -0700, (Roy Zipris) wrote:

>My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
>about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
>www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
>And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
>pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris

I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not much different then
the team pro. but the swallow is really spendy.
I wish the brooks seats had less curve over the top I want a more flat seat.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Steve Knight]

On 27 Apr 2004 10:11:58 -0700, (Roy Zipris) wrote:

>My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
>about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
>www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
>And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
>pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris

I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not much different then
the team pro. but the swallow is really spendy.
I wish the brooks seats had less curve over the top I want a more flat seat.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Mark H.]

Thanks very much to all of you, especially for revisiting the topic.

The responses addressed what I needed; were helpful and encouraging.

For those that have different models on different bikes, is there any other
specificity that you can share about the characteristics that led you to
choose them for those bikes? Are the bikes for different uses?

Thanks once again in advance.

[Mark H.]

Thanks very much to all of you, especially for revisiting the topic.

The responses addressed what I needed; were helpful and encouraging.

For those that have different models on different bikes, is there any other
specificity that you can share about the characteristics that led you to
choose them for those bikes? Are the bikes for different uses?

Thanks once again in advance.

[Russell Seaton]

Steve Knight > wrote in message >...
> On 27 Apr 2004 10:11:58 -0700, (Roy Zipris) wrote:
>
> >My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
> >about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
> >www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
> >And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
> >pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris
>
> I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not much different then
> the team pro. but the swallow is really spendy.
> I wish the brooks seats had less curve over the top I want a more flat seat.

How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
even making them anymore.

The Swift is very different than the Team Pro. Swift is about 1 cm
narrower in the back than the Team Pro and the Swift is narrower in
the nose and the Swift is longer too.

I think the Swallow is even narrower than the Swift.

I have a B17, Pro, and Swift on various bikes. And I have a Flyer
spring model I have not put on the mountain bike yet, but will soon.
The Pro is a not pre-softened version of the Team Pro. I find all of
them comfortable because they are wider than any of the plastic
torture devices sold today. Even the unbroken in Pro is comfortable.
My favorite is probably the Swift because it looks right on a racing
bike. Although on a double century it was a bit narrow after 150
miles. Not exactly a problem for 99.999% of riders of 99.999% of
rides.

[Russell Seaton]

Steve Knight > wrote in message >...
> On 27 Apr 2004 10:11:58 -0700, (Roy Zipris) wrote:
>
> >My B-17 was comfortable right out of the box. My new Swift is, after
> >about 450 miles, is not quite there yet. Try Wallingford,
> >www.wallbike.com, who offers a 6-month guarantee on Brooks saddles.
> >And you'll be supporting a small entrepreneur who is helpful and a
> >pleasure to deal with. -Roy Zipris
>
> I forgot the swallow looks about right. the swift is not much different then
> the team pro. but the swallow is really spendy.
> I wish the brooks seats had less curve over the top I want a more flat seat.

How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
even making them anymore.

The Swift is very different than the Team Pro. Swift is about 1 cm
narrower in the back than the Team Pro and the Swift is narrower in
the nose and the Swift is longer too.

I think the Swallow is even narrower than the Swift.

I have a B17, Pro, and Swift on various bikes. And I have a Flyer
spring model I have not put on the mountain bike yet, but will soon.
The Pro is a not pre-softened version of the Team Pro. I find all of
them comfortable because they are wider than any of the plastic
torture devices sold today. Even the unbroken in Pro is comfortable.
My favorite is probably the Swift because it looks right on a racing
bike. Although on a double century it was a bit narrow after 150
miles. Not exactly a problem for 99.999% of riders of 99.999% of
rides.

[Bill]

I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to
my thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle.
I am on the thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have
that problem? Would a B-17N work?

Bill

[Bill]

I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to
my thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle.
I am on the thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have
that problem? Would a B-17N work?

Bill

[Donald Gillies]

"Mark H." > writes:

>Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
>Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
>ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

This is a question only your butt can answer. Basically, if you have
wide hips, stick to a B-17 or its brethren. A little more narrow,
then a Brooks Pro. The most narrow would be a Swift.

If you look beneath a brooks saddle you will see a "C" shaped metal
support. You do not want either of your sit-bones to be atop the
top or bottom tangs of the "C", otherwise you'll be riding on a metal
saddle. Therfore, your sit bones must fit entirely within the "C",
and when i doubt, wider is typically better, because the smooth
leather makes it very hard to chafe with a brooks saddle.

If you cannot borrow a brooks saddle or bike, then "try before you
completely buy" a saddle at wallbike.

http://www.wallbike.com

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

[Donald Gillies]

"Mark H." > writes:

>Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
>Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
>ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.

This is a question only your butt can answer. Basically, if you have
wide hips, stick to a B-17 or its brethren. A little more narrow,
then a Brooks Pro. The most narrow would be a Swift.

If you look beneath a brooks saddle you will see a "C" shaped metal
support. You do not want either of your sit-bones to be atop the
top or bottom tangs of the "C", otherwise you'll be riding on a metal
saddle. Therfore, your sit bones must fit entirely within the "C",
and when i doubt, wider is typically better, because the smooth
leather makes it very hard to chafe with a brooks saddle.

If you cannot borrow a brooks saddle or bike, then "try before you
completely buy" a saddle at wallbike.

http://www.wallbike.com

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

[Another Fred]

"Bill Putnam" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mark H." > wrote in message
>...
> > ...how to choose?
>snipped ...
>
> Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
>
> Bill Putnam

Yeah, here is the link from Sheldon
After polishing those copper rivets for the last 25 year my Brookes
leather saddle still feels like :
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html
OH it's wonderful when the pain stops!
Fred

[Another Fred]

"Bill Putnam" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mark H." > wrote in message
>...
> > ...how to choose?
>snipped ...
>
> Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on leather saddles at
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
>
> Bill Putnam

Yeah, here is the link from Sheldon
After polishing those copper rivets for the last 25 year my Brookes
leather saddle still feels like :
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html
OH it's wonderful when the pain stops!
Fred

[Rick Warner]

"Bill" > wrote in message >...
> I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to
> my thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle.
> I am on the thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have
> that problem?

Nope. And I am the same height/weight.

- rick

[Rick Warner]

"Bill" > wrote in message >...
> I tried a B-17 standard, and could not use it, due to
> my thighs rubbing against the sides of the saddle.
> I am on the thin side, 5'9", 155lbs. Anyone else have
> that problem?

Nope. And I am the same height/weight.

- rick

[Steve Knight]

>How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
>Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
>even making them anymore.
>

too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
loosing weight will help.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Steve Knight]

>How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
>Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
>even making them anymore.
>

too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
loosing weight will help.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Russell Seaton]

Steve Knight > wrote in message >...
> >How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
> >Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
> >even making them anymore.
> >
>
> too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
> pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
> loosing weight will help.

The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
to work. The B-17 Narrow is a bit narrower than the Swift in back.
Not sure if the nose is as narrow as the Swift because the B-17 has
the leather wrap all the way down the sides along the nose whereas the
Swift more or less stops the leather near the top along the nose. So
if you want to try a narrower Brooks without spending $140 for the
swift, the B-17 Narrow might work. Around $60 from Nashbar and
others. But it does not have the hollow in the middle.

[Russell Seaton]

Steve Knight > wrote in message >...
> >How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
> >Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
> >even making them anymore.
> >
>
> too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
> pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
> loosing weight will help.

The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
to work. The B-17 Narrow is a bit narrower than the Swift in back.
Not sure if the nose is as narrow as the Swift because the B-17 has
the leather wrap all the way down the sides along the nose whereas the
Swift more or less stops the leather near the top along the nose. So
if you want to try a narrower Brooks without spending $140 for the
swift, the B-17 Narrow might work. Around $60 from Nashbar and
others. But it does not have the hollow in the middle.

[Steve Knight]

>The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
>narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
>middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
>you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
>to work.
it's just the spot between before the family jewels that gets too much pressure.
otherwise my sit bones are really happy. if the seat was a bit more flat that
would help. till I loose more weight I doubt any saddle will be perfect.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[Steve Knight]

>The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
>narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
>middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
>you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
>to work.
it's just the spot between before the family jewels that gets too much pressure.
otherwise my sit bones are really happy. if the seat was a bit more flat that
would help. till I loose more weight I doubt any saddle will be perfect.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

[David Damerell]

Donald Gillies > wrote:
>"Mark H." > writes:
>>Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
>>Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
>>ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>This is a question only your butt can answer. Basically, if you have
>wide hips, stick to a B-17 or its brethren. A little more narrow,
>then a Brooks Pro.

Or a B-17 Narrow, which is as cheap as a B-17.
--
David Damerell > flcl?

[David Damerell]

Donald Gillies > wrote:
>"Mark H." > writes:
>>Should I try the Swift? Looks like a good start. What about the B-17, Team
>>Pro? And why? I had a Brooks, rusty memory cells may recall, some decades
>>ago with my vintage 10-speed; at least I'm leather saddle friendly.
>This is a question only your butt can answer. Basically, if you have
>wide hips, stick to a B-17 or its brethren. A little more narrow,
>then a Brooks Pro.

Or a B-17 Narrow, which is as cheap as a B-17.
--
David Damerell > flcl?

[A Muzi]

>>>How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
>>>Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
>>>even making them anymore.

Steve Knight > wrote in message
>...
>>too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
>>pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
>>loosing weight will help.

Russell Seaton wrote:
> The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
> narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
> middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
> you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
> to work. -snip-

TGear used to sell a Brooks Pro with a diamond-shape cutout
in the middle (30mm x 60mm)and a TGear nameplate on the back.

I'm not _advising_ you to whack a hole in your Brooks, but
it has been done.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[A Muzi]

>>>How many purpleheart razee jacks will you have to sell to afford a
>>>Swallow? How many infill smoothers with Japanese blades? If you're
>>>even making them anymore.

Steve Knight > wrote in message
>...
>>too many (G) I need a hollow close to the middle of the seat I get a lot of
>>pressure here. other then that and a bit too wide is a great seat. I hope
>>loosing weight will help.

Russell Seaton wrote:
> The Swift is narrower than your Team Pro. Narrower along the nose and
> narrower in the back. But no Brooks has the cutout/hollow in the
> middle of the seat like many of the new plastic torture devices. If
> you need this feature, then the Brooks saddle are probably not going
> to work. -snip-

TGear used to sell a Brooks Pro with a diamond-shape cutout
in the middle (30mm x 60mm)and a TGear nameplate on the back.

I'm not _advising_ you to whack a hole in your Brooks, but
it has been done.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Roy Zipris]

"Mark H." > wrote
[snip]
> For those that have different models on different bikes, is there any other
> specificity that you can share about the characteristics that led you to
> choose them for those bikes? Are the bikes for different uses?

I have Brooks on both my road bikes, but when I got the new ride,
much lighter all-around, I went with the ti rail Swift to save a
little weight but still enjoy the Brooks cachet; otherwise I would
have stayed with the B17.

BTW, I noticed that Wallingford's server is up today (4/30): a toll
free number, great service, 6-month guarantee (around here, that's a
full season of use). --Roy Zipris

[Roy Zipris]

"Mark H." > wrote
[snip]
> For those that have different models on different bikes, is there any other
> specificity that you can share about the characteristics that led you to
> choose them for those bikes? Are the bikes for different uses?

I have Brooks on both my road bikes, but when I got the new ride,
much lighter all-around, I went with the ti rail Swift to save a
little weight but still enjoy the Brooks cachet; otherwise I would
have stayed with the B17.

BTW, I noticed that Wallingford's server is up today (4/30): a toll
free number, great service, 6-month guarantee (around here, that's a
full season of use). --Roy Zipris