Thoughts on Cinelli Super Corsa??

[Eurastus]

Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious road
riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record group--he
even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn Traveler
III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.

Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement for my
15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site: http://www.gvhbikes.com/.

They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
right size.

I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.

I want to stay with steel.

So here's my questions:

What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they were
considered the very best, but is this still the case?

The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and his
shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli Super
Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?

Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?

Thanks much...

[XAVIER CINTRON]

Thw SuperCorsa is an excellent frame. It still carries the classic lines
from it's early days.

People looking for this type of lines and classic look always end up with a
SuperCorsa or the likes.

You can buy a frame from nearly any dealer. We offer the frame here for
$1000

"Eurastus" > wrote in message
...
> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious
road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record
group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn
Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement
for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site:
http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they
were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and
his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli
Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
> Thanks much...
>

[bfd]

"Eurastus" > wrote in message
...
> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious
road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record
group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn
Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement
for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site:
http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they
were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and
his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli
Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
The Cinelli Super Corsa of today is nothing like the old Cinelli you
remember. I'm sorry to hear about Gary Hobbs and hopes he recovers, but if
you really want a Cinelli, contact your LBS, they're available. However, if
you want state of the art or the very best, American made lugged steel
frames are far superior to that Cinelli. The following are links to just a
few of the best, there may be one close to you:

www.richardsachs.com
www.eisentraut.com
www.rivendellbicycles.com
http://www.cwo.com/~lunarlab/ (richard moon)
http://www.columbinecycle.com/bicycles/bikes.html

[Mark Janeba]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> Eurastus > writes:
>>Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious road
>>riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
>>regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record group--he
>>even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike.
>
[snip]
> Unfortunately, these are apparently not the same bikes as the 1970's
> bikes. I believe that the production of Cinelli bikes left the
> Cinelli family sometime in the 1980's or 1990's and cinelli is now
> just another corporation out to make a quickie buck.
>
[snip]
> A lot of people are critical of the modern Super Corsa, but i don't
> know why. Has the workmanship gone downhill ??

That's what I've been told by a few sources - more mass-produced than
formerly, less time spent on each frame. If you could examine a bare
frame (e.g. see inside the BB to examine brazing), it might tell a great
deal. Maybe even a built-up frame (examine work around seat cluster).

For a lovely lugged Italian handmade with fine workmanship, you may want
to consider Mondonico.

Mark Janeba

[F1]

A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking and
just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum or carbon
frame, price not withstanding?

[Ben]

I used to hang out in a shop out west that sold these same Cinelli's
just a few years ago and they were pretty nice. Chromed lugs and the
works. Just depends on what you're looking for in a frame, I guess.
The racing set of today would probably not be too keen on them (no
carbon, no tig welding, etc), but for those that appreciate more
traditional aesthetics, it's a pretty cool frame.

I've seen these on cbike.com for around a grand, but i bet Gary's deal
is better.

Eurastus > wrote in message >...
> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site: http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
> Thanks much...

[Dan H.]

There is nothing wrong with the "new" Cinelli Super Corsa. I have sold and
built one myself and the customer loves it! I do have one small complaint
about the seat binder system but it seems to be holding up as I have had no
complaints from the above mentioned customer since he bought it 5 years ago.
Since GVH is closed indefinitly, I would be happy to match his rediculusly
low price if want to get one.
brmATpolitesociety.com

[Donald Gillies]

Mark Janeba > writes:

>Donald Gillies wrote:
>> A lot of people are critical of the modern Super Corsa, but i don't
>> know why. Has the workmanship gone downhill ??

>That's what I've been told by a few sources - more mass-produced than
>formerly, less time spent on each frame. If you could examine a bare
>frame (e.g. see inside the BB to examine brazing), it might tell a great
>deal. Maybe even a built-up frame (examine work around seat cluster).

Actually, now that i think of it, i recently saw a live 1970's era
cinelli headbadge, which is simply spectacular.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Cinelli_home.htm
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/cinelli_sc_head.htm

Today's headbadge is a cheapie plastic sticker with the plain-jane
.C logo.
//

And i have seen what crummy finishing can do to the chroming of a set
of head-tube lugs (e.g. chrome over an orange-peel surface is not
pretty, looks like wadded up tin foil, perhaps present down low near
the fork.) Also i have seen lumps in brazing around fork crown and
these things are definitely possible on a frame that is made too
quickly. These imperfections were on 1970's raleigh internationals,
not on cinellis. However, for $870 you should not expect the kind of
beautify and perfection that you get in a $2200 rivendell frame with a
Joe Bell paint job.

Apparently, the 1970's cinellis were much closer to today's rivendells
in workmanship.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

[David L. Johnson]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:35:36 +0000, Eurastus wrote:

> I don't race anymore, so pure performance isn't an issue. I'm looking for
> traditional looks, comfort, and longevity. I've owned and raced on
> carbon, Ti, aluminum, and steel. I just keep coming back to steel.

There are a number of manufacturers that still make high-quality lugged
steel frames -- and now make them out of better alloys than in the old
days, so they will be lighter. Not as light as carbon or aluminum, or
probably even titanium, but lighter than that old Cinelli you lusted after
in your youth.

Try Independent Fabrications for one, if Rivendell is not what you are
looking for.

You might also be able to find an old frame in good shape, which you could
outfit however you wanted.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | More people object to wearing fur than leather because it is
_`\(,_ | safer to harrass rich white women than motorcycle gangs.
(_)/ (_) |

[Nigel Grinter]

I bought a Cinelli Supercorsa in 1994. It is made in Columbus SLX
rather than Neuron tubing, but otherwise looks pretty much the same as
those on Gary Hobbs' site. Obviously I cannot tell if the geometry
has changed and my comments apply to my own frame. It is without a
doubt the nicest-riding steel frame I have ever been on. It combines
great straight-line stability with superb agility in corners (two
characteristics that might seem to be mutually exclusive). It also
looks very classy and its appearance has held up well (albeit with a
ton of TLC from me). It is quite heavy, particularly with its '94
Chorus Ergo group and every spring I think I will take it to the local
bike swap and see what I can get for it. Foolishly, I always ride it
before hauling it off to the swap and it take only a few seconds in
the saddle to make me decide to keep it for at least another year.

Don't know if the above is any help to you, but I think you get the
idea that I quite like mine.

Best wishes,

Nigel Grinter

Eurastus > wrote in message >...
> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site: http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
> Thanks much...

[TC Rider]

"Eurastus" > wrote in message
...
> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious
road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record
group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn
Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement
for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site:
http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they
were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and
his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli
Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
> Thanks much...

My understanding was that Cinelli was acquired by the Columbus tubing
company (love to hear otherwise). I've only seen one Super Corsa less than
a couple years old, and I'm saddened to say it didn't really match the
finish of the early models. Nowhere near as nice as the work on my
Mondonico, which would be my choice for a "traditional Italian lugged frame"
that's still fairly modern in its tubing choices and weight. Then again, I
still ride my 19 year-old Torelli and Paramount frames too...

TC

[Luigi de Guzman]

"F1" > wrote in message >...
> A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking and
> just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum or carbon
> frame, price not withstanding?

because the bike in question looks great.

(If you're not interested in The Ultimate in Performance--or indeed,
as in my case, you are utterly incapable of any Performance
whatsoever--than you're looking for the bike you can ride comfortably,
know will last forever, and gratifies your eye as much as the rest of
your body when you ride. )

(I, however, can't afford nice frames like that, so.)

Because the OP might remember the racing heroes of his youth riding
similar frames.

Because modern frames look too garish....

Because riding is prior to and more imporant than even racing

Because...just because.

-Luigi

[Scott]

If you decide to go with an American builder, check with Albert Eisentraut @
http://www.eisentraut.com/
If I am not mistaken, at one time Albert built Cinellis. Albert has been one of
the premier framer builders in America for decades. I, too, like the looks of the
older Italian frames and ended up buying a custom Eisentraut a couple years ago.
It is a great bike. scott

Eurastus wrote:

> Many moons ago (like 24 years--back in 1979) when I first started serious road
> riding as a freshman in high school, one of the guys I rode with quite
> regularly had a beautiful Cinelli with a brand new Campy Nuovo Record group--he
> even had a Cinelli saddle. What a bike. I was on a pitiful Schwinn Traveler
> III and dreamed of the day I could afford such a machine.
>
> Well, now I can. I've been looking about for a steel framed replacement for my
> 15-year-old 7-speed steed and happened into this site: http://www.gvhbikes.com/.
>
> They've got a beautiful Cinelli Super Corsa in a color I like and just the
> right size.
>
> I intend to equip it with a full Campy Record 10 triple group.
>
> I want to stay with steel.
>
> So here's my questions:
>
> What is the reputation of Cinelli steel frames? Back in the day, they were
> considered the very best, but is this still the case?
>
> The guy that runs GVH Bikes appears to have had some health problems and his
> shop is closed indefinitely. Is there another source for the Cinelli Super
> Corsa I could turn to should I decide to purchase?
>
> Anything else you can tell me about the Cinelli Super Corsa?
>
> Thanks much...

[David L. Johnson]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:02:03 +0000, Scott wrote:

> If you decide to go with an American builder, check with Albert Eisentraut
> @ http://www.eisentraut.com/
> If I am not mistaken, at one time Albert built Cinellis.

What would make you think that? Eisentraut has been building his own
bikes for a long time. When would he have worked for Cinelli?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're
_`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly Tomlin
(_)/ (_) |

[bfd]

"David L. Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:02:03 +0000, Scott wrote:
>
> > If you decide to go with an American builder, check with Albert
Eisentraut
> > @ http://www.eisentraut.com/
> > If I am not mistaken, at one time Albert built Cinellis.
>
> What would make you think that? Eisentraut has been building his own
> bikes for a long time. When would he have worked for Cinelli?
>
Agree, Eisentraut has never worked for Cinelli. He learned his trade from
the Master frame builder Oscar Wastyn. Outside of maybe Richard Sachs,
Albert Eisentraut is the *premier* American frame builder and is also known
as the "Godfather of American Framebuilding". For more on him see here:

http://www.bicycletrader.com/archives/21articles.html#01

[Zoot Katz]

Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:10:11 -0400, >,
"David L. Johnson" > wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:02:03 +0000, Scott wrote:
>
>> If you decide to go with an American builder, check with Albert Eisentraut
>> @ http://www.eisentraut.com/
>> If I am not mistaken, at one time Albert built Cinellis.
>
>What would make you think that? Eisentraut has been building his own
>bikes for a long time. When would he have worked for Cinelli?

Maybe confused with Masi who brought their operation to California.

"During the mid-to-late 1970’s and on through the mid 1980’s, many
prominent frame builders such as Brian Bayliss, Jim Cunningham, Albert
Eisentraut, Mike Howard, Ted Kirkbride, and David Tesch worked for
Masi at one time or another. "
--
zk

[Scott]

That is right. He worked for Masi in S. California. My memory is not what it
once way. Thanks for correcting me.

Zoot Katz wrote:

> Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:10:11 -0400, >,
> "David L. Johnson" > wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:02:03 +0000, Scott wrote:
> >
> >> If you decide to go with an American builder, check with Albert Eisentraut
> >> @ http://www.eisentraut.com/
> >> If I am not mistaken, at one time Albert built Cinellis.
> >
> >What would make you think that? Eisentraut has been building his own
> >bikes for a long time. When would he have worked for Cinelli?
>
> Maybe confused with Masi who brought their operation to California.
>
> "During the mid-to-late 1970’s and on through the mid 1980’s, many
> prominent frame builders such as Brian Bayliss, Jim Cunningham, Albert
> Eisentraut, Mike Howard, Ted Kirkbride, and David Tesch worked for
> Masi at one time or another. "
> --
> zk

[David Damerell]

Brad Keeter > wrote:
[Nothing except changing the subject line.]

This is not a Web forum. Don't do that.
--
David Damerell > Kill the tomato!

[Robin Hubert]

"Dan H." > wrote in message
s.com...
> There is nothing wrong with the "new" Cinelli Super Corsa. I have sold and
> built one myself and the customer loves it! I do have one small complaint
> about the seat binder system but it seems to be holding up as I have had
no
> complaints from the above mentioned customer since he bought it 5 years
ago.
> Since GVH is closed indefinitly, I would be happy to match his rediculusly
> low price if want to get one.
> brmATpolitesociety.com

Those seat binder bolts are ridiculous.



--
Robin Hubert >

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:11:38 +0000, Robin Hubert wrote:

> Those seat binder bolts are ridiculous.

I haven't seen one of these close up, but the old Cinelli seat binder
treatment and seat lug/seatstay joint were elegant and functional. What has changed?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Accept risk. Accept responsibility. Put a lawyer out of
_`\(,_ | business.
(_)/ (_) |

[archer]

In article >,
says...
> I guess I understand the traditional looks and longevity, but I thought
> steel was the worst as far as comfort goes.

I don't have an opinion (all I've ever ridden is steel), but many people
say that steel is the best riding of them all.

.....

--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[Baird Webel]

On 07/25/2003 13:33, in article
, "F1"
> wrote:

> I guess I understand the traditional looks and longevity, but I thought
> steel was the worst as far as comfort goes.

Comfort depends far more on how the bike is made than what the bike is made
of. Witness the "soft" reputation that aluminum had after the first Vitus
and Alan frames that suddenly transmuted into a "stiff" reputation when
Cannondale introduced it's oversized frames.

Baird





> "Eurastus" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I don't race anymore, so pure performance isn't an issue. I'm looking for
>> traditional looks, comfort, and longevity. I've owned and raced on
> carbon, Ti,
>> aluminum, and steel. I just keep coming back to steel.
>>
>>
>>
>> "F1" > wrote:
>>> A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking and
>>> just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum or
> carbon
>>> frame, price not withstanding?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

--
Baird Webel
Washington DC

[jjpsych]

"F1" > wrote in message >...
> A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking and
> just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum or carbon
> frame, price not withstanding?

Because "Steel is Real"

[Robin Hubert]

"David L. Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:11:38 +0000, Robin Hubert wrote:
>
> > Those seat binder bolts are ridiculous.
>
> I haven't seen one of these close up, but the old Cinelli seat binder
> treatment and seat lug/seatstay joint were elegant and functional. What
has changed?
>
> --
>

Truthfully, I don't know what's changed, since I don't know Cinelli's of
old. But that wimpy 3-piece, two-bolts going into a collar (turnbuckle?)
trying to squeeze the stays together is just asking for trouble. I've
tightened enough and replaced enough, and have seen enough good designs to
know that it isn't a good. It might be elegant, but it ain't good.



--
Robin Hubert >

[Bill Graham]

Silliness.

I ride a 57cm steel bike that weighs 17 lbs.. I'd say that's light enough.
Climbing actually is quite nice on a steel bike. To me the feel is
characteristic of a spring: you get this compression and expansion effect
which propels one up climbs. It's comfort makes for less fatigue in most as
well to ride longer/farther. I weigh 190 lbs., and I don't recall ever
walking up a hill, but I'm sure there's a first.

> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:46:35 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" > from
> Shaw Residential Internet wrote:
>
>> Imagine trying to climb on a steel bike!
>
> Aren't there like really heavy people and that's all they can ride? I think
> they
> don't try climbing though. They walk up the hills.
>
>
> --
> http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace
> I feel like I am sharing a ``CORN-DOG'' with NIKITA KHRUSCHEV ...
> 11:50:56 PM 25 July 2003

[David G. White]

I currently own three bikes: a '74 Jack Taylor Reynolds 531 steel, an
early 90's Masi Nuova Strada Reynolds 653 steel and a late 90's
Simonetti Easton aluminum. I do sprint rides and time trials on the
Simonetti, but greatly prefer either steel bike for all other riding,
including climbs. I live in Vermont and do a LOT of climbing. I always
choose steel when I'm riding over mountain gaps... reminds me of a great
ride a couple weeks ago when a buddy and I did a double gap ride over
Middlebury and Brandon gaps... wonderful! I used my '74 Jack Taylor.

David G. White
Burlington, VT

Bill Graham wrote:

>Silliness.
>
>I ride a 57cm steel bike that weighs 17 lbs.. I'd say that's light enough.
>Climbing actually is quite nice on a steel bike. To me the feel is
>characteristic of a spring: you get this compression and expansion effect
>which propels one up climbs. It's comfort makes for less fatigue in most as
>well to ride longer/farther. I weigh 190 lbs., and I don't recall ever
>walking up a hill, but I'm sure there's a first.
>
>
>
>>On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:46:35 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" > from
>>Shaw Residential Internet wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Imagine trying to climb on a steel bike!
>>>
>>>
>>Aren't there like really heavy people and that's all they can ride? I think
>>they
>>don't try climbing though. They walk up the hills.
>>
>>
>>--
>>http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace
>>I feel like I am sharing a ``CORN-DOG'' with NIKITA KHRUSCHEV ...
>>11:50:56 PM 25 July 2003
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Keeper of the Mighty Macaulay]

on 03.07.25 21:51, Kevan Smith asserted:

> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:46:35 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni" >
wrote:
>
>> Imagine trying to climb on a steel bike!
>
> Aren't there like really heavy people and that's all they can ride? I think
> they
> don't try climbing though. They walk up the hills.

Indeed. Even at 140lbs, I usually pull over before any hill, wait for my
support vehicle (because you never know when you'll get a flat while going
for groceries and I can't waste minutes in my commute changing a tire) and
swap my derailleur-equipped steel bike for my aluminum track bike. Without
the aluminum bike, I'd be hoofing it in the SPD-SLs for sure.

Seng

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

Bill Graham wrote in message ...
>Silliness.
>
>I ride a 57cm steel bike that weighs 17 lbs.. I'd say that's light enough.
>Climbing actually is quite nice on a steel bike. To me the feel is
>characteristic of a spring: you get this compression and expansion effect

Well, actually your bike weights about 19 to 21 lbs, too heavy for today's
competitive riding. And that compression - expansion you're talking
about is actually the damn thing flexing, that's the one thing you
don't want, if a frame is doing that is time to dump it.

[Lewdvig]

My 87 GIOS Torino has less BB deflection than either of my aluminium bikes.


"Bill Graham" > wrote in message
...
> Silliness.
>
> I ride a 57cm steel bike that weighs 17 lbs.. I'd say that's light enough.
> Climbing actually is quite nice on a steel bike. To me the feel is
> characteristic of a spring: you get this compression and expansion effect
> which propels one up climbs. It's comfort makes for less fatigue in most
as
> well to ride longer/farther. I weigh 190 lbs., and I don't recall ever
> walking up a hill, but I'm sure there's a first.
>
> > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:46:35 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"
> from
> > Shaw Residential Internet wrote:
> >
> >> Imagine trying to climb on a steel bike!
> >
> > Aren't there like really heavy people and that's all they can ride? I
think
> > they
> > don't try climbing though. They walk up the hills.
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace
> > I feel like I am sharing a ``CORN-DOG'' with NIKITA KHRUSCHEV ...
> > 11:50:56 PM 25 July 2003
>

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

Lewdvig wrote in message ...
>My 87 GIOS Torino has less BB deflection than either of my aluminium bikes.
>
>
A frame from the '80s will be toast by now,
and get rid of your whippy AL frames and buy
something worthy, most oversized AL frames
from Carrera, Fondriest, Bianchi, Orbea,
Cannondale, Colnago, Pinarello, should do it
for you, just make sure you buy from their upper
end of the bike line.

[Bill Graham]

Sorry Sir, you're wrong about the weight of my bike, and that it is time to
dump the bike. It is the resilience of steel in this case that provides the
sensation, not a worn out frame.

>
> Bill Graham wrote in message ...
>> Silliness.
>>
>> I ride a 57cm steel bike that weighs 17 lbs.. I'd say that's light enough.
>> Climbing actually is quite nice on a steel bike. To me the feel is
>> characteristic of a spring: you get this compression and expansion effect
>
> Well, actually your bike weights about 19 to 21 lbs, too heavy for today's
> competitive riding. And that compression - expansion you're talking
> about is actually the damn thing flexing, that's the one thing you
> don't want, if a frame is doing that is time to dump it.
>
>

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

Bill Graham wrote in message ...
>Sorry Sir, you're wrong about the weight of my bike, and that it is time to
>dump the bike. It is the resilience of steel in this case that provides the
>sensation, not a worn out frame.
>
What kind of scales did you use to weight
that with?

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

>Bill Graham wrote in message ...
>>Sorry Sir, you're wrong about the weight of my bike, and that it is time to
>>dump the bike. It is the resilience of steel in this case that provides the
>>sensation, not a worn out frame.
>>
Hi Bill, I've done a bit of research into your issue and
you may want to recalibrate your scales UP by 2.67 lbs.

Let me know want results that gives.

[David L. Johnson]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 03:55:18 +0000, Robin Hubert wrote:

> Truthfully, I don't know what's changed, since I don't know Cinelli's of
> old.

For that, check out
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Cinelli_home.htm

which shows a detail of the seat lug near the top.

But that wimpy 3-piece, two-bolts going into a collar (turnbuckle?)
> trying to squeeze the stays together is just asking for trouble. I've
> tightened enough and replaced enough, and have seen enough good designs to
> know that it isn't a good. It might be elegant, but it ain't good.

That sounds neither elegant nor good. But when you compare the classic
Cinelli design to a typical treatment of the seat stays; basically just
cutting them diagonally, coverning up the hole, and brazing the whole
thing to the seat lug with a glob of metal, the classic Cinelli lug is
both elegant and good. My old Frejus has a nice lug which incorporated
the seat stays, but the binder bolt is just stuck on the back.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

[A Muzi]

> "Eurastus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I don't race anymore, so pure performance isn't an issue. I'm looking
for
> > traditional looks, comfort, and longevity. I've owned and raced on
> carbon, Ti,
> > aluminum, and steel. I just keep coming back to steel.

> > "F1" > wrote:
> > >A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking
and
> > >just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum > > >
or carbon frame, price not withstanding?


"F1" > wrote in message
.net...
> I guess I understand the traditional looks and longevity, but I thought
> steel was the worst as far as comfort goes.

There's naturally a broad range of opinion but this is the first time I've
heard that one.
You might try riding one some time.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Sherman]

jjpsych wrote:
>
> "F1" > wrote in message >...
> > A bit off topic, but why do you want steel? I'm fairly new to biking and
> > just wondering why anyone would want anything BUT a good aluminum or carbon
> > frame, price not withstanding?
>
> Because "Steel is Real"

And aluminium alloy, carbon fiber composite, and titanium/titanium
alloys are presumably figments of the imagination.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Lewdvig]

I have seen BASSO's with a similar arrangement. what makes them so wacky?

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
> "Dan H." > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > There is nothing wrong with the "new" Cinelli Super Corsa. I have sold
and
> > built one myself and the customer loves it! I do have one small
complaint
> > about the seat binder system but it seems to be holding up as I have had
> no
> > complaints from the above mentioned customer since he bought it 5 years
> ago.
> > Since GVH is closed indefinitly, I would be happy to match his
rediculusly
> > low price if want to get one.
> > brmATpolitesociety.com
>
> Those seat binder bolts are ridiculous.
>
>
>
> --
> Robin Hubert >
>
>
>