Perverse wheel build

[Benjamin Lewis]

Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.

I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided, against
my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.

diagram:
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png
photo:
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpg

Spokes lengths were calculated using equations from The Wheel Book, except
for the calculations for spoke angles (T in the book) which I had to figure
out myself (they're just linear combinations of the angle between rim holes
and the half-angle between hub holes). Four different lengths were used,
shown in different colours in the first image (spokes on other side of
wheel shown in grey).

The rim is a used Mavic Reflex. It is a socketed double walled rim, but
anodized and with welded joint.

Spokes are DT straight gauge. I was trying to do this cheaply, and the LBS
where I bought them didn't have butted spokes in the lengths I needed
anyway. In fact, they only had spokes of even length, and my calculations
called for odd lengths after rounding down. In the end I got two of the
lengths rounded quite a bit down, and the other two rounded slightly up.
It worked okay.

Hub is some Shimano high flange that I found used; needless to say I broke
the wheel building rule against re-lacing a hub in a different pattern.
Furthermore, I couldn't figure out any lacing pattern that didn't involve
any radial spokes, so I ended up with four of these (two per side). I
thought perhaps it wouldn't be quite as bad if I left the holes in the
hub adjacent to these spokes vacant. Bearing races appeared to be in
excellent condition; I replaced the shot cones and bearings for a paltry
sum.

The build wasn't too hard, especially after I applied little coloured coded
pieces of masking tape near the holes in the hub and rim so I wouldn't get
confused while lacing the wheel. I couldn't do normal evening of tension
by tone due to the varying lengths, but I made sure that spokes of the same
length rang at the same pitch.

This wheel now lives on my fun-around-town-fixie, so I don't expect it to
ever have much weight on it.

Comments or criticisms other than "that's a dumb idea; it'll break and
you'll kill yourself" or "next time fork over the extra cash and do it
right" welcome :)

In unrelated news, my hair is now blue:
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/photos/misc/bhair2b.jpg

If you look closely you may notice where I singed part of my right eyebrow
in a barbecue incident.

--
Benjamin Lewis

On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague:
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

[Jacobe Hazzard]

The other day I wanted to put aluminum rims onto an old cheap road bike I
have, to allow it's use as a rain bike. I had found a couple of wheels in
the garbage earlier with rims in OK condition, same number of spoke holes,
only smaller diameter than the original steel rims (622mm bead seat versus
27" I guess).

After checking that the brakes would still work, I laced a new rim onto
the existing front hub and spokes, and to compensate for the too-long
spoke lengths I changed the lacing pattern from 3x to 4x. For the rear
wheel I was able to use the spokes from the garbage wheel and lace them
onto the old hub with the same pattern, although I couldn't get the valve
hole between parallel spokes.

No problems getting either wheel round, true, tensioned or dished, and I'm
very curious to see how these wheels hold up over time. It's a bit of a
hobby of mine to go out riding on garbage nights and salvage bikes people
are throwing out, then either fix them up or cannibilize them to fix up
other bikes, the goal being to make as many bikes safe and useable as
possible with no new parts (OK so I use new oil, grease, and bearings..).
It's amazing but I usually find many bikes and bike parts, to the point
where I reject about 50% of the usable parts I find because it's too much
stuff to move. I don't really have any reason for doing this other than I
like building bikes and don't like paying for stuff to do it with.
Sometimes I trade the finished bikes away to people I know for other
things, and sometimes I ride them. My garage is so full of wheels, tires,
frames, whole bicycles and other parts it's becoming a problem.

(and oh yeah the bike brakes a lot better now :-)

[daveornee]

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.
> I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided,
> against my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.
> diagram: http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.pnghttp://ww-
> w.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png photo: http://www.cs.sfu.c-
> a/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpghttp://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/perso-
> nal/bike/wheel3b.jpg
> Spokes lengths were calculated using equations from The Wheel Book,
> except for the calculations for spoke angles (T in the book) which I had
> to figure out myself (they're just linear combinations of the angle
> between rim holes and the half-angle between hub holes). Four different
> lengths were used, shown in different colours in the first image (spokes
> on other side of wheel shown in grey).
> The rim is a used Mavic Reflex. It is a socketed double walled rim, but
> anodized and with welded joint.
> Spokes are DT straight gauge. I was trying to do this cheaply, and the
> LBS where I bought them didn't have butted spokes in the lengths I
> needed anyway. In fact, they only had spokes of even length, and my
> calculations called for odd lengths after rounding down. In the end I
> got two of the lengths rounded quite a bit down, and the other two
> rounded slightly up. It worked okay.
> Hub is some Shimano high flange that I found used; needless to say I
> broke the wheel building rule against re-lacing a hub in a different
> pattern. Furthermore, I couldn't figure out any lacing pattern that
> didn't involve any radial spokes, so I ended up with four of these (two
> per side). I thought perhaps it wouldn't be quite as bad if I left the
> holes in the hub adjacent to these spokes vacant. Bearing races appeared
> to be in excellent condition; I replaced the shot cones and bearings for
> a paltry sum.
> The build wasn't too hard, especially after I applied little coloured
> coded pieces of masking tape near the holes in the hub and rim so I
> wouldn't get confused while lacing the wheel. I couldn't do normal
> evening of tension by tone due to the varying lengths, but I made sure
> that spokes of the same length rang at the same pitch.
> This wheel now lives on my fun-around-town-fixie, so I don't expect it
> to ever have much weight on it.
> Comments or criticisms other than "that's a dumb idea; it'll break and
> you'll kill yourself" or "next time fork over the extra cash and do it
> right" welcome :)
> In unrelated news, my hair is now blue: http://www.cs.sfu.c-/http://www.cs.sfu.c-
> a/~bclewis/personal/photos/misc/bhair2b.jpg
> If you look closely you may notice where I singed part of my right
> eyebrow in a barbecue incident.
> --
> Benjamin Lewis
> On a paper submitted by a physicist colleague: "This isn't right. This
> isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli


Interesting project. I keep many rims, spokes, and hubs around. I am no
ready to go for the unconventional methods you employed because I wan
something that will be reliable. I encourage people to follow "th
Bicycle Wheel" principles: "It may be futile to suggest the ordinary bu
let me try to persuade you that just to build conventional standard 3
spoke wheel is not a trivial task if a durable wheel is your goal. ...
Your true contribuion is to build conventional wheels exceptionall
well." a quote from Jobst Brandt's book I think some of the marketin
hyped wheels that are out there because wheelsmiths aren't making thei
contributions and/or their contributions are undervalued/misunderstood


-

[[email protected]]

Benjamin Lewis writes:

> Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.

> I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided, against
> my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.

> diagram:
> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png
> photo:
> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpg

Commonly known as "Crowsfoot" spoke pattern described in
"the Bicycle Wheel".

Jobst Brandt

[Benjamin Lewis]

wrote:

> Interesting project. I keep many rims, spokes, and hubs around. I am not
> ready to go for the unconventional methods you employed because I want
> something that will be reliable. I encourage people to follow "the
> Bicycle Wheel" principles: "It may be futile to suggest the ordinary but
> let me try to persuade you that just to build conventional standard 36
> spoke wheel is not a trivial task if a durable wheel is your goal. ....
> Your true contribuion is to build conventional wheels exceptionally
> well." a quote from Jobst Brandt's book

Yes, I think that's excellent advice. On the other hand, I often like
doing things in unusual ways with what I have at hand, even if it is less
than ideal -- and I suspect this wheel will still be more durable than many
off-the-shelf wheels.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

[Benjamin Lewis]

jobst brandt wrote:

> Benjamin Lewis writes:
>
>> Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.
>
>> I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided,
>> against my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.
>
>> diagram:
>> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png
>> photo:
>> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpg
>
> Commonly known as "Crowsfoot" spoke pattern described in
> "the Bicycle Wheel".

Yes, almost half of it is anyway. I'm not sure what the lacing pattern for
the other spokes (magenta and blue in the diagram) should be called. It's
not really 2-cross, in the normal usage of the term. Perhaps "two
trailing, two leading?" The pattern on the reverse side is the same,
rotated by 90 degrees.

The diagram does not show inbound vs. outbound spokes, or orientation of
spoke crossings.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

[Sheldon Brown]

Benjamin Lewis writes:
>
>>Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.
>
>
>>I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided, against
>>my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.
>
>>diagram:
>>http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png
>>photo:
>>http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpg
>
Averting his eyes, Jobst replied:
>
> Commonly known as "Crowsfoot" spoke pattern described in
> "the Bicycle Wheel".

Actually, not exactly. The classic crowsfoot uses spokes in groups of
3, one radial and two semi-tangent in each group.

Benjamin's setup alternates groups of 3 with groups of 4, with the 4s
being all semi-tangent.

Sheldon "Looks Like Fun!" Brown
+----------------------------------------------+
| My mind is aglow with whirling, transient |
| nodes of thought careening through a cosmic |
| vapor of invention! --Mel Brooks |
+----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article >,
Benjamin Lewis > wrote:

> Jobst, you may want to avert your eyes.
>
> I found myself with a 28 hole rim and a 36 hole hub, and decided, against
> my better judgment, to build a wheel with them.
>
> diagram:
> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel.png
> photo:
> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/bike/wheel3b.jpg

> Comments or criticisms other than "that's a dumb idea; it'll break and
> you'll kill yourself" or "next time fork over the extra cash and do it
> right" welcome :)
>
> In unrelated news, my hair is now blue:
> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/~bclewis/personal/photos/misc/bhair2b.jpg
>
> If you look closely you may notice where I singed part of my right eyebrow
> in a barbecue incident.

You're just a parade of bad personal judgment!

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

[Jacobe Hazzard]

I found two more bikes in the trash tonight.

One of them, a mid-range looking ladies' Raleigh road bike, has the nicest
fenders and rack I've ever seen on it. Score.

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 05:31:30 GMT, "Jacobe Hazzard"
> wrote:
>I found two more bikes in the trash tonight.

What do you do with surplus bikes? My enthusiasm for rescuing bikes
is beginning to wane, due to a lack of anything to do with them. I
did recently find some people to take some off my hands, but that
will only get rid of a few...

>One of them, a mid-range looking ladies' Raleigh road bike, has the nicest
>fenders and rack I've ever seen on it. Score.

Ah yes, always good to find ladies with nice racks...

Er, anyway, I can't seem to find any bikes with racks, which stinks,
because I'd like to put some free racks on some of my bikes.
--
Rick Onanian

[Benjamin Lewis]

Rick Onanian wrote:

> On Fri, 07 May 2004 05:31:30 GMT, "Jacobe Hazzard"
> > wrote:
>> I found two more bikes in the trash tonight.
>
> What do you do with surplus bikes? My enthusiasm for rescuing bikes
> is beginning to wane, due to a lack of anything to do with them. I
> did recently find some people to take some off my hands, but that
> will only get rid of a few...

If you've run out of friends who need bicycles, you could possibly try
selling them or donating them to charities.

>> One of them, a mid-range looking ladies' Raleigh road bike, has the
>> nicest fenders and rack I've ever seen on it. Score.
>
> Ah yes, always good to find ladies with nice racks...
>
> Er, anyway, I can't seem to find any bikes with racks, which stinks,
> because I'd like to put some free racks on some of my bikes.

I just wish I could find some bikes *with wheels*! At the moment I have
three scavenged frames lying around, but only one wheel. The wheels I do
find almost invariably need to be re-spoked, making spokes one of the more
expensive parts of the salvaged bike, along with brake pads and tires. (I
suppose I could try to re-use the old corroded non-SS spokes, but I hate
building wheels with these, especially when mixed with new replacements for
broken spokes).


--
Benjamin Lewis

Thyme's Law:
Everything goes wrong at once.

[Jacobe Hazzard]

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

> I just wish I could find some bikes *with wheels*! At the moment I
> have three scavenged frames lying around, but only one wheel. The
> wheels I do find almost invariably need to be re-spoked, making
> spokes one of the more expensive parts of the salvaged bike, along
> with brake pads and tires. (I suppose I could try to re-use the old
> corroded non-SS spokes, but I hate building wheels with these,
> especially when mixed with new replacements for broken spokes).

Not only do I find bikes with wheels, but I often find wheels lying out
alone. Don't ask me why. One day I happened upon a bike with two wrecked
wheels in the trash, and was told by the occupant of the house that his
roomate had left all his stuff behind and now he was throwing it all away.
The next day, riding along and thinking how I could ride that bike if I
got some 700c or 27" wheels what should I happen upon but two 27" wheels
needing only a little grease! I'm usually thinking "hmm, I could slap a
new rim on that and use it on bike x" or "that rim would go great on bike
y's front wheel" or "that hub looks like it's in great condition". I also
re-use spokes a lot, although it's definitely more convenient to have a
complete set than do it piecewise (see my original post in this thread).
After a while you start developing a feel for what you can get away with.
I know that in many cases after I've lubed the nipples, and tensioned and
trued and stress relieved the wheels, they are more durable than they were
when they were newly machine built. Certain experiments have resulted in
broken spokes (IE inside and outside spokes should never be swapped).

Hint: a *real* bike salvager will save working nipples, even when the
spokes are broken.

[Jacobe Hazzard]

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:
> Also last
> night (when I wasn't actively hunting mind you, just riding around) I
> found a nice skateboard that a friend of mine skated home on.

I just got a phone call from the above mentioned friend, who told me that
after we parted ways while he was skating home he also found another bike.
It was a mountain bike with straps, in good condition, and only needing
new brake pads up front he says. I think we should open a used bike shop.

[Benjamin Lewis]

Jacobe Hazzard wrote:

> Hint: a *real* bike salvager will save working nipples, even when the
> spokes are broken.

I guess I'm not a real bike salvager :) At less than C$2, I have no problem
with springing for a set of new nipples. I did this on a wheel I recently
restored, which had been using nipples for three different wrench sizes!

--
Benjamin Lewis

Thyme's Law:
Everything goes wrong at once.

[Jacobe Hazzard]

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Jacobe Hazzard wrote:
>
>> Hint: a *real* bike salvager will save working nipples, even when the
>> spokes are broken.
>
> I guess I'm not a real bike salvager :) At less than C$2, I have no
> problem with springing for a set of new nipples. I did this on a
> wheel I recently restored, which had been using nipples for three
> different wrench sizes!

It's not about saving money, it's about.. um.....

Another tip: bike shops are great places to look for wheels. They are
always convincing people to buy new wheels and chuck their old, perfectly
serviceable wheels. Sometimes the rims are toasted, but more often they
just need to be trued. I guess either the shops are less skilled at wheel
repair than I, or more likely they make more money off of new wheel sales.

[Mark South]

"Ryan Cousineau" > wrote in message
...

First:
> You're just a parade of bad personal judgment!

Second:
> Ryan Cousineau,
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
> President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Heh :-)

And where is Fabrizio these days? I need to know what colours are
in before doing summer bike part shopping!
--
Mark South
Citizen of the World, Denizen of the Net
<<Tiens! Ce poulet a une grenade!>>

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 18:38:35 GMT, "Jacobe Hazzard"
> wrote:
>season. I find a lot of cool bits in the garbage, some recent things of
>note: A front wheel with working Sturmey-Archer Dynohub; a set of Biopace
>Chainrings; a high end Miele road frame that after preliminary inspection
>appears to be in excellent condition; the hugest centre-pull brake
>calipers I've ever seen (used in a wheel-size conversion project); a
>kryptonite lock with key(?); a bag of kevlar beaded mountain tires, like

Holy crap! You must be dumpster diving at bike shops...I ought to do
that. I mostly just curb-shop.

>I am a little dismayed by the things that get thrown out these days, but
>at the same time I notice there are a lot of other people like me (some of
>them with flatbed trucks) who are out every garbage night helping

I drive a pickup, and put on lots of miles regardless of curb
shopping; driving a truck sure makes it easy! ;)

>themselves. Every bike I rescue is one less bike in a landfill and
>hopefully one less department store cheapie that gets manufactured.

Those are both great reasons to rescue. Thank you for reminding me.
I skipped a pair of bikes yesterday, one of which may have been
pretty good. Plus, I keep forgetting that I'm looking for a 110 BCD
crank...so I should at least grab every bike I see and just dump any
I don't want until I find it.

>Speaking of which is there any way to reclaim old steel or non-eyleted
>aluminum rims as scrap? I have a lot of them, but they wont go in the
>recycling bin and the scrap yard I talked to didn't want to deal with them
>either.

Flatten them into blocks as best you can, sort them by material,
save them, and bring batches of them to scrap.

A pre-destroyed rim rotting in the landfill doesn't bother me so
much.
--
Rick Onanian

[Chris Zacho The Wheelman]

I think it looks cool! !t deserves a place on Sheldon's site, at least.
You will let us know how it works, won't you?

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

[Chalo]

Rick Onanian > wrote:

> What do you do with surplus bikes? My enthusiasm for rescuing bikes
> is beginning to wane, due to a lack of anything to do with them.

http://deadbabybikes.org/bikes.htm
http://dclxvi.org/chunk/meet/outside/index.html
http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/

There is *always* something to do with surplus bikes. Even if it is
not immediately recognizable as a good idea.

Chalo Colina

[Benjamin Lewis]

Chris Zacho wrote:

> I think it looks cool! !t deserves a place on Sheldon's site, at least.
> You will let us know how it works, won't you?

Just as well as any other wheel I've ridden so far, and better than many :)
Thanks to Jobst's advice it's well-tensioned, stress-relieved, true, and
staying that way.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Thyme's Law:
Everything goes wrong at once.

[Rick Onanian]

On 7 May 2004 18:31:32 -0700, (Chalo) wrote:
>Rick Onanian > wrote:
>> What do you do with surplus bikes? My enthusiasm for rescuing bikes
>> is beginning to wane, due to a lack of anything to do with them.
>
>http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/

I love the lawnmower bike:
http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/suburban_intruder.jpg
I WILL build one, in the event that the current real estate bubble
bursts and I can afford a house (and a yard).

>There is *always* something to do with surplus bikes. Even if it is
>not immediately recognizable as a good idea.

Teach me to weld, O wise one!

Okay, the real problem is lack of appropriate equipment...I'm sure I
could learn to weld on my own. I might burn off some limbs and
destroy the house in the process, but that's okay.
--
Rick Onanian

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 08 May 2004 15:14:54 -0400, Rick Onanian >
wrote:

>On 7 May 2004 18:31:32 -0700, (Chalo) wrote:
>>Rick Onanian > wrote:
>>> What do you do with surplus bikes? My enthusiasm for rescuing bikes
>>> is beginning to wane, due to a lack of anything to do with them.
>>
>>http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/
>
>I love the lawnmower bike:
>http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/suburban_intruder.jpg
>I WILL build one, in the event that the current real estate bubble
>bursts and I can afford a house (and a yard).
>
>>There is *always* something to do with surplus bikes. Even if it is
>>not immediately recognizable as a good idea.
>
>Teach me to weld, O wise one!
>
>Okay, the real problem is lack of appropriate equipment...I'm sure I
>could learn to weld on my own. I might burn off some limbs and
>destroy the house in the process, but that's okay.

Dear Rick,

Regrettably, the lawn-mower bike in that picture may well be operating
in the only kind of terrain where it will "work"--a paved parking lot:

http://cyclecide.com/photos/2003_fort_collins/suburban_intruder.jpg

If you've never used a push-reel mower, try one and get an idea of
what you'd face. Massive rolling resistance, not wind drag, is the
problem as you trudge behind such contraptions. And you face start-up
friction at the end of each strip mowed as you either turn 90 degrees
abruptly or else reverse direction entirely.

Against the resistance of real grass, the high single-speed gearing in
the picture is unlikely to work comfortably.

On a real lawn at such low speeds and with occasional damp patches,
the same high resistance to the blades is likely to lead to the rear
tire slipping and even gouging.

Notice the lack of a basket to catch the clippings, which will be
spraying all over your feet, front sprocket, and chain?

Now look at how close your straining, slippery, green-stained feet
straining on the pedals will be to the spinning blades.

Ouch!

Normally, the poor devil pushing a reel lawn-mower is leaning into the
far end of a long handle, with his feet pushing the other way and six
feet away from danger.

So if you do weld up a bike lawn-mower, consider adding a safety
grille over the back of the reel to protect your clipless shoes, if
not your feet.

Maybe start with a bike lawn-fertilizer instead?

(Just replaced my 1980 no-name gas mulcher with the $139 bottom of the
line model from Sears and am surprised by the improvements in a
quarter century.)

See you on rec.lawnmower.tech!

Carl Fogel

[WTF,O]

> wrote in message:

(snip)

>So if you do weld up a bike lawn-mower, consider adding a safety
> grille over the back of the reel to protect your clipless shoes, if
> not your feet.

(snip)

Damned good idea - that "safety grill", but you might want to use a solid
sheet of material rather than a "grill". Those presents dogs leave hiding
in the grass will be flung upwards by your reel mower bike.

Cal

[Rick Onanian]

On Sun, 9 May 2004 07:14:00 +0900, "WTF,O" >
wrote:
>Damned good idea - that "safety grill", but you might want to use a solid
>sheet of material rather than a "grill". Those presents dogs leave hiding
>in the grass will be flung upwards by your reel mower bike.

If I catch a dog crapping on my lawn, I'll probably crap on the dog.
--
Rick Onanian

[Sheldon Brown]

Benjamin Lewis has expanded on his article about this, with details on
how to calculate spoke lengths for mismatched drillings.

With his permission, I've added it to my site at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/mismatch

Sheldon "Sanity Is Overrated" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| If only God would give me some clear sign! |
| Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss bank. |
| --Woody Allen |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[gwhite]

daveornee > wrote:

> ... I think some of the marketing
> hyped wheels that are out there because
> wheelsmiths aren't making their
> contributions and/or their contributions
> are undervalued/misunderstood.

I don't know about that. I think they are "out there" because the
manufacturer's need a new idea to sell, hopefully at a premium price.
If all anybody rode was well built 36 spoke wheels of high quality
materials... well that is what is on the bike you owned 15 years ago
(and still is, and the wheels still work, hah hah).

I don't think "wheelbuilder contributions to the marketplace" matter
much. It's paint-by-numbers now, for those with a little willingness
not to spend money elsewhere. Follow the rules articulated in JB's
book and you'll get good wheels. Most folks riding don't care, imo.
I do it so I can have extra sets of good racing/training wheels at a
lower cost than I can have someone else make them. The reason is
economic, once I decide I *will* be getting new wheels. I think I'm
about stocked up for life.