Hypocrite Mountain Bikers Ride when Trails Are Wet [Archive]

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 24th 10, 04:34 PM

So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
"rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.

Mike

Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
From: Ross Finlayson >
Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?

At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
days after a major rainy spell. Most of the trails are too muddy to
ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
even after heavy rain.

In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
(Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
overlook and back. But even that fireroad often gets very wet.

My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
road. This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
heavy rain, such as we had this past week.

So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?

Ross.

VtSkier[_2_]

January 24th 10, 07:51 PM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.

Note to Ed Dolan
Here is Mike, commenting on an article
about a mountain biker who has the sense
to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
maintained fire roads because he knows he
will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
his area and won't cause damage to the fire
roads. And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.
Harumph!

>
> Mike
>
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
> From: Ross Finlayson >
> Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>
> At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
> this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
> days after a major rainy spell. Most of the trails are too muddy to
> ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
> even after heavy rain.
>
> In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
> (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
> overlook and back. But even that fireroad often gets very wet.
>
> My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
> today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
> abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
> road. This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
> up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
> heavy rain, such as we had this past week.
>
> So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>
> Ross.

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 25th 10, 12:10 AM

On Jan 24, 11:51*am, VtSkier > wrote:
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> > So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> > could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> > "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> Note to Ed Dolan
> Here is Mike, commenting on an article
> about a mountain biker who has the sense
> to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
> maintained fire roads because he knows he
> will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
> his area and won't cause damage to the fire
> roads.

You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
stick to pavement.

> And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.

Show me where I said that he's "bad". I said he's a "hypocrite".

> Harumph!
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike
>
> > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
> > From: Ross Finlayson >
> > Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>
> > At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
> > this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
> > days after a major rainy spell. *Most of the trails are too muddy to
> > ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
> > even after heavy rain.
>
> > In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
> > (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
> > overlook and back. *But even that fireroad often gets very wet.
>
> > My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
> > today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
> > abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
> > road. *This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
> > up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
> > heavy rain, such as we had this past week.
>
> > So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>
> > * *Ross.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

January 25th 10, 12:28 AM

"Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:

You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
stick to pavement.

This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground and
trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
Road?

VtSkier[_2_]

January 25th 10, 01:27 AM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
>>> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
>>> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>> Note to Ed Dolan
>> Here is Mike, commenting on an article
>> about a mountain biker who has the sense
>> to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
>> maintained fire roads because he knows he
>> will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
>> his area and won't cause damage to the fire
>> roads.
>
> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> stick to pavement.

As I said in my last post, it was last in which
I would attempt to be civil to you. That since
you are quite unable to be civil in this forum.
For me to explain why a fireroad, or any other
dirt road would suffer less damage from a mountain
bike or any wheeled vehicle than a single track
trail to you would be quite futile. Yes, I have
studied the same physics that you have (presumably)
studied and am quite capable of showing you why.
But in any case you would just call me a LIAR and
go on your merry way. So why don't you just do
that and save me a hundred words or so.

>> And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.
>
> Show me where I said that he's "bad". I said he's a "hypocrite".
>
>> Harumph!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Mike
>>> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
>>> From: Ross Finlayson >
>>> Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>>> At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
>>> this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
>>> days after a major rainy spell. Most of the trails are too muddy to
>>> ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
>>> even after heavy rain.
>>> In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
>>> (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
>>> overlook and back. But even that fireroad often gets very wet.
>>> My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
>>> today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
>>> abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
>>> road. This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
>>> up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
>>> heavy rain, such as we had this past week.
>>> So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>>> Ross.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>

VtSkier[_2_]

January 25th 10, 01:30 AM

DI wrote:
> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>
> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> stick to pavement.
>
> This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground and
> trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
> Road?

Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
This is worth reading all the way to the end.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 25th 10, 02:27 AM

On Jan 24, 4:28*pm, "DI" > wrote:
> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>
> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> stick to pavement.
>
> This shows how stupid Mike is. * The pavement had to be built on ground and
> trees at one time. * What's the difference? * Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
> Road?

Try to follow the conversation. No one is talking about building new
roads. We're talking about mountain biking on roads vs. trails.

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 25th 10, 02:30 AM

On Jan 24, 5:27*pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
> >> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> >>> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> >>> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> >>> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
> >> Note to Ed Dolan
> >> Here is Mike, commenting on an article
> >> about a mountain biker who has the sense
> >> to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
> >> maintained fire roads because he knows he
> >> will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
> >> his area and won't cause damage to the fire
> >> roads.
>
> > You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> > difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> > physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> > a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> > maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> > works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> > just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> > opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> > stick to pavement.
>
> As I said in my last post, it was last in which
> I would attempt to be civil to you. That since
> you are quite unable to be civil in this forum.
> For me to explain why a fireroad, or any other
> dirt road would suffer less damage from a mountain
> bike or any wheeled vehicle than a single track
> trail to you would be quite futile. Yes, I have
> studied the same physics that you have (presumably)
> studied and am quite capable of showing you why.
> But in any case you would just call me a LIAR and
> go on your merry way. So why don't you just do
> that and save me a hundred words or so.

It's quite obvious that you don't know any specifics whatsoever. About
ANYTHING. And, yes, you ARE a liar. I've demonstrated that severa
times. Why would you want to emulate a mountain biker???

> >> And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.
>
> > Show me where I said that he's "bad". I said he's a "hypocrite".
>
> >> Harumph!
>
> >>> Mike
> >>> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
> >>> From: Ross Finlayson >
> >>> Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
> >>> At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
> >>> this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
> >>> days after a major rainy spell. *Most of the trails are too muddy to
> >>> ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
> >>> even after heavy rain.
> >>> In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
> >>> (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
> >>> overlook and back. *But even that fireroad often gets very wet.
> >>> My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
> >>> today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
> >>> abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
> >>> road. *This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
> >>> up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
> >>> heavy rain, such as we had this past week.
> >>> So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
> >>> * *Ross.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 25th 10, 02:33 AM

On Jan 24, 5:30*pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> DI wrote:
> > "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>
> > You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> > difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> > physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> > a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> > maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> > works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> > just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> > opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> > stick to pavement.
>
> > This shows how stupid Mike is. * The pavement had to be built on ground and
> > trees at one time. * What's the difference? * Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
> > Road?
>
> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral.co..uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman- Hide quoted text -

WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)

VtSkier[_2_]

January 25th 10, 02:49 AM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Jan 24, 5:27 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>>>> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
>>>>> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
>>>>> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>>>> Note to Ed Dolan
>>>> Here is Mike, commenting on an article
>>>> about a mountain biker who has the sense
>>>> to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
>>>> maintained fire roads because he knows he
>>>> will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
>>>> his area and won't cause damage to the fire
>>>> roads.
>>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
>>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
>>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
>>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
>>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
>>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
>>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
>>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
>>> stick to pavement.
>> As I said in my last post, it was last in which
>> I would attempt to be civil to you. That since
>> you are quite unable to be civil in this forum.
>> For me to explain why a fireroad, or any other
>> dirt road would suffer less damage from a mountain
>> bike or any wheeled vehicle than a single track
>> trail to you would be quite futile. Yes, I have
>> studied the same physics that you have (presumably)
>> studied and am quite capable of showing you why.
>> But in any case you would just call me a LIAR and
>> go on your merry way. So why don't you just do
>> that and save me a hundred words or so.
>
> It's quite obvious that you don't know any specifics whatsoever. About
> ANYTHING. And, yes, you ARE a liar. I've demonstrated that severa
> times. Why would you want to emulate a mountain biker???

Well that was easy. Didn't have to insult you
or anything.

>>>> And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.
>>> Show me where I said that he's "bad". I said he's a "hypocrite".
>>>> Harumph!
>>>>> Mike
>>>>> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:15:01 -0800
>>>>> From: Ross Finlayson >
>>>>> Subject: Your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>>>>> At this time of the year (especially during an 'El Nino' winter like
>>>>> this one), we often find ourselves wanting to ride just a couple of
>>>>> days after a major rainy spell. Most of the trails are too muddy to
>>>>> ride, but there are a few trails (mostly fireroads) that hold up OK
>>>>> even after heavy rain.
>>>>> In the past, my favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride was the main
>>>>> (Aptos Creek) fireroad in Nisene Marks - from Aptos up to Sand Point
>>>>> overlook and back. But even that fireroad often gets very wet.
>>>>> My new favorite 'midst of the wet season' ride - which I did again
>>>>> today - is at Butano State Park: Up the Butano Fireroad, past the
>>>>> abandoned airstrip, then down Olmo Fireroad, and back along the paved
>>>>> road. This is a 12-mile loop with 2000' of total climbing , and holds
>>>>> up well (especially the Butano Fireroad) even after a long period of
>>>>> heavy rain, such as we had this past week.
>>>>> So lets hear your favorite 'midst of the wet season' rides?
>>>>> Ross.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

VtSkier[_2_]

January 25th 10, 02:52 AM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Jan 24, 5:30 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>> DI wrote:
>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
>>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
>>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
>>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
>>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
>>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
>>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
>>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
>>> stick to pavement.
>>> This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground and
>>> trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
>>> Road?
>> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
>> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman- Hide quoted text -
>
> WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
> head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)

WHAT? There isn't an ounce of truth in my
statement about you not being stupid?

Oh, the website. The author has offered his
OPINION on you, your motivations, your
methods. So far I haven't seen anything
that is untrue. In fact that's where I got
the notion that you weren't stupid. Is
that a lie?

Edward Dolan

January 25th 10, 03:56 AM

"VtSkier" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
>> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
>> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> Note to Ed Dolan
> Here is Mike, commenting on an article
> about a mountain biker who has the sense
> to stay on well constructed and (I assume)
> maintained fire roads because he knows he
> will cause much damage on the 'trails' in
> his area and won't cause damage to the fire
> roads. And Mike is saying this is a bad guy.
> Harumph!

I told you MV was a purist. I am not. As far as I am concerned, mountain
bikers can ride on fire roads and jeep roads to their heart's content. Once
any kind of road has been constructed, it is no longer wilderness - and I no
longer have any interest in it as such.

I have ridden on fire roads myself and it is the perfect venue for mountain
biking. Like I said before, I just do not want mountain bikes on hiking
trails whether it is in a wilderness area or any other area devoted to
hiking trails.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 25th 10, 06:08 AM

On Jan 24, 6:52*pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 5:30 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> >> DI wrote:
> >>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
> ....
> >>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
> >>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> >>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> >>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> >>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> >>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> >>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> >>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> >>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> >>> stick to pavement.
> >>> This shows how stupid Mike is. * The pavement had to be built on ground and
> >>> trees at one time. * What's the difference? * Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
> >>> Road?
> >> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
> >> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral..co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman-Hide quoted text -
>
> > WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
> > head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)
>
> WHAT? There isn't an ounce of truth in my
> statement about you not being stupid?
>
> Oh, the website. The author has offered his
> OPINION on you, your motivations, your
> methods. So far I haven't seen anything
> that is untrue. In fact that's where I got
> the notion that you weren't stupid. Is
> that a lie?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Idiot. "I THINK X" is a statement of opinion. "X" is a statement of
fact, and if untrue, a LIE. DUH! All of his untruths are lies. Nowhere
does he say he is just giving an opinion.

Just zis Guy, you know?[_2_]

January 25th 10, 09:21 AM

On Jan 24, 4:34*pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
> So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.

Ah, a categorical statement: IMBA's rules are "universally ignored".
You seem to be very hot on statements of opinion not being presented
as fact so you will now post the proof that not one single IMBA member
obeys the rules. Obviously this will have to be by reference to
reliable independent sources since neither you nor the IMBA are
objective in this.

Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
body.
--
Guy

VtSkier[_2_]

January 25th 10, 02:30 PM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Jan 24, 6:52 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 5:30 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>> DI wrote:
>>>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
>>>>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
>>>>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
>>>>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
>>>>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
>>>>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
>>>>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
>>>>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
>>>>> stick to pavement.
>>>>> This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground and
>>>>> trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
>>>>> Road?
>>>> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
>>>> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman-Hide quoted text -
>>> WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
>>> head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)
>> WHAT? There isn't an ounce of truth in my
>> statement about you not being stupid?
>>
>> Oh, the website. The author has offered his
>> OPINION on you, your motivations, your
>> methods. So far I haven't seen anything
>> that is untrue. In fact that's where I got
>> the notion that you weren't stupid. Is
>> that a lie?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Idiot. "I THINK X" is a statement of opinion. "X" is a statement of
> fact, and if untrue, a LIE. DUH! All of his untruths are lies. Nowhere
> does he say he is just giving an opinion.

Yes he does. Read all the way to the end.

Moi-aussi

January 26th 10, 01:25 AM

"VtSkier" > wrote in message
...
> DI wrote:
>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>>
>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
>> stick to pavement.
>>
>> This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground
>> and trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or
>> Paved Road?
>
> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
> This is worth reading all the way to the end.
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman

Don't be silly!!! Of course he's stupid. And I certainly wouldn't openly lay
claim to him by saying "our Mikey". ; )

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 26th 10, 05:40 AM

On Jan 25, 1:21*am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:34*pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>
> > So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> > could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> > "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> Ah, a categorical statement: IMBA's rules are "universally ignored".
> You seem to be very hot on statements of opinion not being presented
> as fact so you will now post the proof that not one single IMBA member
> obeys the rules. Obviously this will have to be by reference to
> reliable independent sources since neither you nor the IMBA are
> objective in this.
>
> Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> body.
> --
> Guy

From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "we should
stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
their peers. Or they just don't care.

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 26th 10, 05:44 AM

On Jan 25, 6:30*am, VtSkier > wrote:
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 6:52 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> >> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> >>> On Jan 24, 5:30 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
> >>>> DI wrote:
> >>>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
> >>>>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
> >>>>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
> >>>>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
> >>>>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
> >>>>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
> >>>>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
> >>>>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
> >>>>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
> >>>>> stick to pavement.
> >>>>> This shows how stupid Mike is. * The pavement had to be built on ground and
> >>>>> trees at one time. * What's the difference? * Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
> >>>>> Road?
> >>>> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
> >>>> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman-Hidequoted text -
> >>> WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
> >>> head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)
> >> WHAT? There isn't an ounce of truth in my
> >> statement about you not being stupid?
>
> >> Oh, the website. The author has offered his
> >> OPINION on you, your motivations, your
> >> methods. So far I haven't seen anything
> >> that is untrue. In fact that's where I got
> >> the notion that you weren't stupid. Is
> >> that a lie?- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Idiot. "I THINK X" is a statement of opinion. "X" is a statement of
> > fact, and if untrue, a LIE. DUH! All of his untruths are lies. Nowhere
> > does he say he is just giving an opinion.
>
> Yes he does. Read all the way to the end.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 26th 10, 05:47 AM

Just zis Guy, you know?[_2_]

January 26th 10, 03:39 PM

On Jan 26, 5:40*am, Mike Vandeman > wrote:

> > Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> > body.

> From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
> they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "weno should
> stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
> their peers. Or they just don't care.

You are neither credible nor independent. Your claim was that the
rules are "universally ignored". Put up or shut up.
--
Guy

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 26th 10, 05:51 PM

On Jan 26, 7:39*am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 5:40*am, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>
> > > Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> > > body.
> > From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
> > they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "weno should
> > stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
> > their peers. Or they just don't care.
>
> You are neither credible nor independent. Your claim was that the
> rules are "universally ignored". *Put up or shut up.
> --
> Guy

Sorry, I mistook you for a member of Homo sapiens. I won't make that
mistake again. Goodbye.

VtSkier[_2_]

January 26th 10, 07:02 PM

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Jan 25, 6:30 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>> On Jan 24, 6:52 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>> Mike Vandeman wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 24, 5:30 pm, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>>>> DI wrote:
>>>>>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Jan 24, 11:51 am, VtSkier > wrote:
>>>>>>> You haven't ever studied physics, have you? Tell me what the
>>>>>>> difference in impacts is on a fire road vs. a trail. The laws of
>>>>>>> physics are the same on both. Except that they can go a lot FASTER on
>>>>>>> a wide fire road. Hence, the impacts are much greater. Road
>>>>>>> maintenance requires a bulldozer, which has a huge impact. Erosion
>>>>>>> works the same on both. Animals & plants killed on a fire road are
>>>>>>> just as dead as on a trail. Do you ever put your brain in gear before
>>>>>>> opening your mouth??? The only way they can lessen their impact is to
>>>>>>> stick to pavement.
>>>>>>> This shows how stupid Mike is. The pavement had to be built on ground and
>>>>>>> trees at one time. What's the difference? Trail, Fire Road, or Paved
>>>>>>> Road?
>>>>>> Careful here. Our Mikey isn't stupid.
>>>>>> This is worth reading all the way to the end.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Mike_Vandeman-Hidequoted text -
>>>>> WHY? There isn't an ounce of truth in it. (Sorry to talk over your
>>>>> head. I should stick to words of one syl-la-ble.)
>>>> WHAT? There isn't an ounce of truth in my
>>>> statement about you not being stupid?
>>>> Oh, the website. The author has offered his
>>>> OPINION on you, your motivations, your
>>>> methods. So far I haven't seen anything
>>>> that is untrue. In fact that's where I got
>>>> the notion that you weren't stupid. Is
>>>> that a lie?- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Idiot. "I THINK X" is a statement of opinion. "X" is a statement of
>>> fact, and if untrue, a LIE. DUH! All of his untruths are lies. Nowhere
>>> does he say he is just giving an opinion.
>> Yes he does. Read all the way to the end.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Not true. He states as fact things that are untrue, without claiming
> that they are just his opinion. So you are BOTH incorrigible liars.
>
> This is a LIE: "I extend to him an open invitation to notify me of any
> material in this page which is provably factually incorrect, and I
> will amend or remove it." He never does that.

He did so by writing it on his web page.
Why don't you take him up on it?

Just zis Guy, you know?[_2_]

January 26th 10, 10:35 PM

On Jan 26, 5:51*pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:

> > You are neither credible nor independent. Your claim was that the
> > rules are "universally ignored". *Put up or shut up.

> Sorry, I mistook you for a member of Homo sapiens. I won't make that
> mistake again. Goodbye.

Logical fallacy: ad hominem. You lose.
--
Guy

Moi-aussi

January 27th 10, 12:37 AM

"Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 25, 1:21 am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
> wrote:
> On Jan 24, 4:34 pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>
> > So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> > could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> > "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> Ah, a categorical statement: IMBA's rules are "universally ignored".
> You seem to be very hot on statements of opinion not being presented
> as fact so you will now post the proof that not one single IMBA member
> obeys the rules. Obviously this will have to be by reference to
> reliable independent sources since neither you nor the IMBA are
> objective in this.
>
> Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> body.
> --
> Guy

From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "we should
stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
their peers. Or they just don't care.

How exactly do you monitor their email? Are you with a Federal agency, or a
spy?

Mike Vandeman[_4_]

January 27th 10, 08:06 AM

On Jan 26, 4:37*pm, "Moi-aussi" > wrote:
> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 25, 1:21 am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 4:34 pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>
> > > So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> > > could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> > > "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> > Ah, a categorical statement: IMBA's rules are "universally ignored".
> > You seem to be very hot on statements of opinion not being presented
> > as fact so you will now post the proof that not one single IMBA member
> > obeys the rules. Obviously this will have to be by reference to
> > reliable independent sources since neither you nor the IMBA are
> > objective in this.
>
> > Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> > body.
> > --
> > Guy
>
> From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
> they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "we should
> stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
> their peers. Or they just don't care.
>
> How exactly do you monitor their email? Are you with a Federal agency, or a
> spy?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Simple: subscribe. DUH!

Just zis Guy, you know?[_2_]

January 27th 10, 08:50 AM

On Jan 27, 8:06*am, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
> > How exactly do you monitor their email? Are you with a Federal agency, or a
> > spy?

> Simple: subscribe. DUH!

You can't "subscribe" to someone's email. You said "I monitor their
email", unless you are using this in a sense contrary to what the
common understanding of it would be then I call you on it. Where's
yhour evidence of monitoring the email accounts of mountain bikers?
And where's your credible independent third-party validation for your
claim that the rules are *universally* ignored?
--
Guy

Moi-aussi

January 28th 10, 01:10 AM

"Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 26, 4:37 pm, "Moi-aussi" > wrote:
> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jan 25, 1:21 am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Jan 24, 4:34 pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>
> > > So much for IMBA's rule about not riding under wet conditions! They
> > > could stick to pavement, but they are too selfish to do so. IMBA's
> > > "rules" are just for show, and are universally ignored.
>
> > Ah, a categorical statement: IMBA's rules are "universally ignored".
> > You seem to be very hot on statements of opinion not being presented
> > as fact so you will now post the proof that not one single IMBA member
> > obeys the rules. Obviously this will have to be by reference to
> > reliable independent sources since neither you nor the IMBA are
> > objective in this.
>
> > Come back when you have evidence vetted by a credible independent
> > body.
> > --
> > Guy
>
> From the horse's mouth: I monitor their email & usenet posts. Whenever
> they discuss riding when the trails are wet, no one says "we should
> stick to pavement". They are cowards, when it comes to criticizing
> their peers. Or they just don't care.
>
> How exactly do you monitor their email? Are you with a Federal agency, or
> a
> spy?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Simple: subscribe. DUH!

Your ignorance is astounding. Now I see that the "DUH!" is an apt
description of your intellect. It is very obvious that you subscribe to
stupidity and get regular deliveries.