Energy Recovery Systems vs. Battery/Motor Assist

[Brad Anders]

What's the r.b.r. slant on bicycle-based energy recovery systems (e.g.
various forms of regenerative braking) vs. the "motorized doping"
battery/motor assist systems? Still cheating? Is energy recovery any
more "unfair" than energy loss avoidance (e.g. low friction bearings,
aero positioning, low rolling resistance tires, etc.)? If a useful
energy recovery system for a bicycle could be developed, that would
provide a competitive advantage, do you think the UCI should allow it?

Brad Anders

[Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.]

On Jun 4, 2:17*pm, Brad Anders > wrote:
> What's the r.b.r. slant on bicycle-based energy recovery systems (e.g.
> various forms of regenerative braking) vs. the "motorized doping"
> battery/motor assist systems? Still cheating? Is energy recovery any
> more "unfair" than energy loss avoidance (e.g. low friction bearings,
> aero positioning, low rolling resistance tires, etc.)? If a useful
> energy recovery system for a bicycle could be developed, that would
> provide a competitive advantage, do you think the UCI should allow it?



Dumbass -

It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy going
downhill.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

[drmofe]

On Jun 5, 10:21*am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> wrote:

> It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy going
> downhill.

Alexandre,
You should know that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

[F. Kurgan Gringioni]

"drmofe" > wrote in message
...
On Jun 5, 10:21 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> wrote:

> It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy going
> downhill.

:: Alexandre,
:: You should know that energy cannot be created or destroyed.


Dumbass -

Say you've got two riders with the same power output but one weighs 10 lbs.
more. Say they start a race and it starts with a climb. If there isn't an
energy recovery system, he is at the same disadvantage going uphill compared
to if there is one. However, if there is one, he'll have a little extra
wattage after the descent.

It would allow the Fatties to partially compensate for their weight
handicap.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 21:10:19 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> wrote:

>
>"drmofe" > wrote in message
...
>On Jun 5, 10:21 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> wrote:
>
>> It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy going
>> downhill.
>
>:: Alexandre,
>:: You should know that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>Say you've got two riders with the same power output but one weighs 10 lbs.
>more. Say they start a race and it starts with a climb. If there isn't an
>energy recovery system, he is at the same disadvantage going uphill compared
>to if there is one. However, if there is one, he'll have a little extra
>wattage after the descent.
>
>It would allow the Fatties to partially compensate for their weight
>handicap.
>
>thanks,
>
>Fred. presented by Gringioni.

But it would be slim. The regeneration is usually felt as a minor
drag, so you give up a little to get only a little more on a bike.
You'd have to make a switch between modes to get a real impact IMO and
keep the actual act of switching away from Cancellara and the cameras.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

[F. Kurgan Gringioni]

> wrote in message
...
>
> But it would be slim. The regeneration is usually felt as a minor
> drag, so you give up a little to get only a little more on a bike.
> You'd have to make a switch between modes to get a real impact IMO and
> keep the actual act of switching away from Cancellara and the cameras.



Dumbass -

Another example is a crit. Same scenario. Two riders, same power output, one
weighs 10 lbs. more than the other. They brake into the same turns,
accelerate the same out of the turns just like they would without the power
assist. Under a no-power-recovery situation, the fatter one is at a
disadvantage since he has to accelerate his/her extra 10 lbs. out of the
turn. In the power-recovery scenario, the fatter one will have the weight
disadvantage partially compensated for since he/she will store slightly more
power under braking. If both of them wait until the the last lap before
using their stored energy, the fatter one will have more to work with.

thanks,

Fred. presented by Gringioni.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 21:10:19 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"drmofe" > wrote in message
...
>>On Jun 5, 10:21 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> wrote:
>>
>>> It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy
>>> going
>>> downhill.
>>
>>:: Alexandre,
>>:: You should know that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
>>
>>
>>Dumbass -
>>
>>Say you've got two riders with the same power output but one weighs 10
>>lbs.
>>more. Say they start a race and it starts with a climb. If there isn't
>>an
>>energy recovery system, he is at the same disadvantage going uphill
>>compared
>>to if there is one. However, if there is one, he'll have a little
>>extra
>>wattage after the descent.
>>
>>It would allow the Fatties to partially compensate for their weight
>>handicap.
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> But it would be slim. The regeneration is usually felt as a minor
> drag, so you give up a little to get only a little more on a bike.
> You'd have to make a switch between modes to get a real impact IMO and
> keep the actual act of switching away from Cancellara and the cameras.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

So wasn't faking fatigue on the run-up to Alpe d'Huez in 2000. He war
running tired as he was literally recharging his batteries and then give
us "The Look" as he motor kicked in. Y'know, "The Look" wasn't about
Lance checking out the guys behind; it was his head being jerked back
when the motor started up too quickly. Wasn't that the same climb where
Rubiera hit the bottom of the climb so hard Lance almost came off? That
was Rubiera's motor, and then he "popped" when the battery died or the
fuse blew.

This makes so much sense. Lance, for a short while, seemed to be
dropping Jan like a rock. And then somehow Jan stopped losing time to
him for the entire second half of the climb.

And then Luz Ardiden. Lance went to the motor immediately after the
crash (who wouldn't?). But those early versions had trouble with
variable cadences, putting Lance out of sync with the cranks briefly
(where we saw him come off his pedals and nearly impale himself on the
top tube).

It all makes sense now.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 21:10:19 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"drmofe" > wrote in message
...
>>On Jun 5, 10:21 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> wrote:
>>
>>> It would definitely favor the Fatties. They can get more energy
>>> going
>>> downhill.
>>
>>:: Alexandre,
>>:: You should know that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
>>
>>
>>Dumbass -
>>
>>Say you've got two riders with the same power output but one weighs 10
>>lbs.
>>more. Say they start a race and it starts with a climb. If there isn't
>>an
>>energy recovery system, he is at the same disadvantage going uphill
>>compared
>>to if there is one. However, if there is one, he'll have a little
>>extra
>>wattage after the descent.
>>
>>It would allow the Fatties to partially compensate for their weight
>>handicap.
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>
> But it would be slim. The regeneration is usually felt as a minor
> drag, so you give up a little to get only a little more on a bike.
> You'd have to make a switch between modes to get a real impact IMO and
> keep the actual act of switching away from Cancellara and the cameras.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:46:46 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
> wrote:

>It all makes sense now.

It will be mainstream when you get a free lap for a mechanical in a
crit from motor seizure.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...