More defective cars with safety issues, cyclists beware!

[Doug[_3_]]

"Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.

Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.

The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
master cylinder...

More:
http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-news/index.php/2010/06/14/kia-to-recall-ceed-and-picanton-models/

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Brimstone]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
> "Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> master cylinder...
>
Do you sit up all night searching for such esoteric minutia Doug?

[GT]

> "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
> "Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.

So why exactly does this affect cyclists? The drivers of the Kia's are the
ones who should be beware!!
Of course, Kia have identified the problem and will recall and rectify the
fault, so no one really needs to beware at all - problem solved, so
cyclists - carry on as normal!!

[GT]

> "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> insufficient brake force

That is what must have been the problem with the cyclist that nearly killed
me as I crossed 'Strand' on Saturday. I was walking across the crossing half
way up the strand, nearly at the Covent garden side. Traffic lights were red
and a taxi had stopped in the outside lane and a cyclist had stopped in the
inside lane and another cyclist came straight through the lights and if I
hadn't stopped, he would have mowed me down. The lights had been changed to
red for the traffic for probably 15-20 seconds and he just didn't care. What
was even more alarming was that the police man standing on the pavement did
*nothing* at all!

If there was nothing defective with his bicycle, then this is a warning sign
to all motorists and pedestrians - beware of cyclists - they don't care
about any road laws and just ride these lethal weapons round on our cities
streets and the police do nothing about it.

This is a true story and it happenned *twice* in 1 weekend - I was away for
the weekend and this really did happen. Something I have *NEVER* seen a car
do *EVER* in hundreds of thousands of miles of driving over nearly 20 years!

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:

>
> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> master cylinder...

So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[NM]

On 14 June, 19:27, "GT" > wrote:
> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> > insufficient brake force
>
> That is what must have been the problem with the cyclist that nearly killed
> me as I crossed 'Strand' on Saturday. I was walking across the crossing half
> way up the strand, nearly at the Covent garden side. Traffic lights were red
> and a taxi had stopped in the outside lane and a cyclist had stopped in the
> inside lane and another cyclist came straight through the lights and if I
> hadn't stopped, he would have mowed me down. The lights had been changed to
> red for the traffic for probably 15-20 seconds and he just didn't care. What
> was even more alarming was that the police man standing on the pavement did
> *nothing* at all!
>
> If there was nothing defective with his bicycle, then this is a warning sign
> to all motorists and pedestrians - beware of cyclists - they don't care
> about any road laws and just ride these lethal weapons round on our cities
> streets and the police do nothing about it.
>
> This is a true story and it happenned *twice* in 1 weekend - I was away for
> the weekend and this really did happen. Something I have *NEVER* seen a car
> do *EVER* in hundreds of thousands of miles of driving over nearly 20 years!

My abiding memory is of the idiot cyclist crossing against a red
light, MP3 in the ears, hands off the bars because he was sitting up
straight and texting, didn't even glance at the traffic situation, no
helmet, hoodie obstructing his prepherial vision. Do something similar
in your car and you would probably loose your D/L and come close to
getting banged up.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 14 June, 19:17, "Brimstone" > wrote:
> "Doug" > wrote in message
>
> ...> "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> > insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> > featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
> Do you sit up all night searching for such esoteric minutia Doug?
>
No they arrive on my doorstep, so to speak.

Doug.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 14 June, 19:23, "GT" > wrote:
> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> So why exactly does this affect cyclists? The drivers of the Kia's are the
> ones who should be beware!!
> Of course, Kia have identified the problem and will recall and rectify the
> fault, so no one really needs to beware at all - problem solved, so
> cyclists - carry on as normal!!
>
No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
and dangerously driven..

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>
Don't you mean 'crash'?

It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
crashes leaves something to be desired. Also, it is not necessary to
wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Tony Dragon]

Doug wrote:
> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
>>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
>>> master cylinder...
>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
>> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>
> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>
> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> crashes leaves something to be desired.

So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.

> Also, it is not necessary to
> wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,

And they are not, so what's the problem?

> though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
>
> -- .
> UK Radical Campaigns.
> http://www.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.
>
>
>
You mean leaving cars on the road that might have a problem.

There is only one problem I can see, and it's not with cars.

--
Tony Dragon

[PeterG]

On Jun 15, 7:00*am, Doug > wrote:
> On 14 June, 19:23, "GT" > wrote:> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> > ....
> > > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > So why exactly does this affect cyclists? The drivers of the Kia's are the
> > ones who should be beware!!
> > Of course, Kia have identified the problem and will recall and rectify the
> > fault, so no one really needs to beware at all - problem solved, so
> > cyclists - carry on as normal!!
>
> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
> to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
> and dangerously driven..
>
> -- .
> UK Radical Campaigns.http://www.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.

A bit like bikes then, 'dirty, rattley & dangerously ridden.

[Tony Dragon]

Doug wrote:
> On 14 June, 19:17, "Brimstone" > wrote:
>> "Doug" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...> "Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
>>> emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>>> Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
>>> insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
>>> featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
>>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
>>> master cylinder...
>> Do you sit up all night searching for such esoteric minutia Doug?
>>
> No they arrive on my doorstep, so to speak.
>
> Doug.

Google does deliveries?

--
Tony Dragon

[Adrian]

Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
>>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30,
>>>> 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the
>>>> brake master cylinder...

>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during
>>> the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???

>> Don't you mean 'crash'?

No, he means "accident". How many times do you need telling that
"accident" does not carry any implication of lack of blame, merely lack
of intent?

>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>> crashes leaves something to be desired.

> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.

Here's a fact...

The issue is with the very small %age of Cee'ds fitted with the optional
ESP. As such, the problem will not be one that will affect normal braking
at all, but will only affect the operation of the ESP (which wasn't even
available as an option on the majority of the range, only top-spec).

Mountain. Mole-hill. Again.

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:
> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door,
>>> SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March
>>> 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace
>>> the brake master cylinder...
>>
>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>
> Don't you mean 'crash'?

No I mean accident because I understand the English language.

> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> crashes leaves something to be desired. Also, it is not necessary to
> wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
> though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle.

Let me help you out.

In the whole of 2009 Kia produced 1,600,000 cars, 468 of which (or 0.03%)
had a minor fault which hasn't caused any accidents?

"Defective cars with safety issues"?

Defective brain more like.

Now watch the **** go quiet on the issue.


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[Adrian]

"The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

> In the whole of 2009 Kia produced 1,600,000 cars, 468 of which (or
> 0.03%) had a minor fault which hasn't caused any accidents?

Hold on one mo...
1.6m cars produced worldwide.
468 affected sold in the UK.

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Adrian wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
> happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> In the whole of 2009 Kia produced 1,600,000 cars, 468 of which (or
>> 0.03%) had a minor fault which hasn't caused any accidents?
>
> Hold on one mo...
> 1.6m cars produced worldwide.
> 468 affected sold in the UK.


......and?



--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[Adrian]

"The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

>>> In the whole of 2009 Kia produced 1,600,000 cars, 468 of which (or
>>> 0.03%) had a minor fault which hasn't caused any accidents?

>> Hold on one mo...
>> 1.6m cars produced worldwide.
>> 468 affected sold in the UK.

> .....and?

So "1.6m"/"468" is apples/oranges.

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???

Doug failed to post propery:
"Don't you mean 'crash'?"

He was talking about 'collisions' between vehicles that are not deliberate.
A crash can be a deliberate act, an accident cannot be deliberate.

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???

Doug doesn't know how to indent a post properly in newsnet, but wibbled
this:
"
It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
crashes leaves something to be desired. Also, it is not necessary to
wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
"

Which is exactly why Kia have recalled the vehicles and are going to rectify
the problem. What exactly is your point?

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Adrian wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
> happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>>>> In the whole of 2009 Kia produced 1,600,000 cars, 468 of which (or
>>>> 0.03%) had a minor fault which hasn't caused any accidents?
>
>>> Hold on one mo...
>>> 1.6m cars produced worldwide.
>>> 468 affected sold in the UK.
>
>> .....and?
>
> So "1.6m"/"468" is apples/oranges.

Suddenly you are a greengrocer?

If you have figures for worldwide recalls we can do the sums again. Its
still going to be tiny.

In 2009 Kia sold 50,636 cars in the UK, 468 of which had a minor fault.
Less than 1% and no reported accidents.

I wonder what percentage of push bikes have faulty brakes? Which are never
checked or recalled.



--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[Adrian]

"The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

> If you have figures for worldwide recalls we can do the sums again. Its
> still going to be tiny.

Well, there was roughly 150,000 Cee'ds built in the year in question - a
"value" car of which the ESP is only available as an option extra on a
very small selection of the range.

> In 2009 Kia sold 50,636 cars in the UK, 468 of which had a minor fault.
> Less than 1% and no reported accidents.

Indeed.

But don't distort the figures to try to manipulate what is already a
valid point. It's sinking to the level of Bollen & Hansen.

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Adrian wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > gurgled
> happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> If you have figures for worldwide recalls we can do the sums again.
>> Its still going to be tiny.
>
> Well, there was roughly 150,000 Cee'ds built in the year in question
> - a "value" car of which the ESP is only available as an option extra
> on a very small selection of the range.
>
>> In 2009 Kia sold 50,636 cars in the UK, 468 of which had a minor
>> fault. Less than 1% and no reported accidents.
>
> Indeed.
>
> But don't distort the figures to try to manipulate what is already a
> valid point. It's sinking to the level of Bollen & Hansen.

Fair point.


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
On 14 June, 19:23, "GT" > wrote:
> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> So why exactly does this affect cyclists? The drivers of the Kia's are the
> ones who should be beware!!
> Of course, Kia have identified the problem and will recall and rectify the
> fault, so no one really needs to beware at all - problem solved, so
> cyclists - carry on as normal!!

Doug mumbled:
"No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
and dangerously driven.."

Its not too hard to tell them apart - their names are written on the back
and the manufacturer's badge is on the front! If you need to identify one
particular car, then the yellow number plate on the rear should help with
that - its a clever system used to track, control and monitor motor
vehicles. The system allows manufacturers to ensure that all known faults
can be safely rectified as soon as they are discovered, making our roads
safer places for everyone. The system also allows authorities to catch and
track bad drivers - a system that we really need to introduce for the
cyclists of London, as I discovered on my recent trip!

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:

> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
> to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
> and dangerously driven..

You appear to have forgotton to comment on the number of accidents these
'defective' cars have caused?

You must know surely?


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[PeterG]

On Jun 15, 9:54*am, "GT" > wrote:
> "Doug" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>
> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Doug wrote:
>
> > > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > > master cylinder...
>
> > So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
> > period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>
> Doug doesn't know how to indent a post properly in newsnet, but wibbled
> this:
> "
> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> crashes leaves something to be desired. Also, it is not necessary to
> wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
> though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
> "
>
> Which is exactly why Kia have recalled the vehicles and are going to rectify
> the problem. What exactly is your point?

The one on the top of his head, under the tinfoil cap that stop his
brain absorbing any sense.

[GT]

"The Medway Handyman" > wrote in message
news:toORn.58311$yA.13369@hurricane...
> Doug wrote:
>
>> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
>> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
>> to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
>> and dangerously driven..
>
> You appear to have forgotton to comment on the number of accidents these
> 'defective' cars have caused?
>
> You must know surely?

No - he cant understand it at all. These cars are murderous weapons and are
used solely to legally kill cyclists, or at least that is his usual twist on
reality.

[webreader]

On Jun 15, 9:20*pm, "GT" > wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > wrote in messagenews:toORn.58311$yA.13369@hurricane...
>
> > Doug wrote:
>
> >> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
> >> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
> >> to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
> >> and dangerously driven..
>
> > You appear to have forgotton to comment on the number of accidents these
> > 'defective' cars have caused?
>
> > You must know surely?
>
> No - he cant understand it at all. These cars are murderous weapons and are
> used solely to legally kill cyclists, or at least that is his usual twist on
> reality.

I have checked in my wallet & I do have a 'licience to kill' so as a
'killer motorist' I can use my 'car weapon' to 'ramm' 'vulnerable
victims' as much as I like because I know that the 'motorist majority'
will let me free.

[FrengaX]

On Jun 15, 7:00*am, Doug > wrote:
> On 14 June, 19:23, "GT" > wrote:> > "Doug" > wrote in message
> > ....
> > > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > So why exactly does this affect cyclists? The drivers of the Kia's are the
> > ones who should be beware!!
> > Of course, Kia have identified the problem and will recall and rectify the
> > fault, so no one really needs to beware at all - problem solved, so
> > cyclists - carry on as normal!!
>
> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult
> to know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous
> and dangerously driven..

Oh dear, and it's a wonder people call you a hypocrite. Less than a
week ago, I asked you:
"Are you able to accept that fact ... that lumping all people who
happen to drive a vehicle (irrespective of what else they do the rest
of their time) into the same camp as the very few who are crap and
uncaring drivers?".
You reploied with:
"I don't lump all people, just the worst ones."

Yet here you are claiming all cars are dangerously driven. How do you
justify your claim that they are all dangerously driven, and how do
you explain what you said last week?

[Adrian]

webreader > gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

> I have checked in my wallet & I do have a 'licience to kill' so as a
> 'killer motorist'

*slaps forehead*
So THAT's why it says "Fuhrerschein" in the list of translations.

[Adrian]

FrengaX > gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

> On Jun 15, 7:00Â*am, Doug > wrote:
>> No to be safe I would avoid Kias as much as possible just now, as I do
>> Toyotas. Problem is though, not being a petrol head, it is difficult to
>> know one from another and they all look alike to me, shiny, bulbous and
>> dangerously driven..

> Oh dear, and it's a wonder people call you a hypocrite. Less than a week
> ago, I asked you:
> "Are you able to accept that fact ... that lumping all people who happen
> to drive a vehicle (irrespective of what else they do the rest of their
> time) into the same camp as the very few who are crap and uncaring
> drivers?".
> You reploied with:
> "I don't lump all people, just the worst ones."
>
> Yet here you are claiming all cars are dangerously driven. How do you
> justify your claim that they are all dangerously driven, and how do you
> explain what you said last week?

It's quite simple, he's not a hypocrite. Hypocrite doesn't mean somebody
who does what he himself criticises others for.

You're the hypocrite. Hypocrite means somebody who criticises Duhg.

[Tony Dragon]

Adrian wrote:
> webreader > gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying:
>
>> I have checked in my wallet & I do have a 'licience to kill' so as a
>> 'killer motorist'
>
> *slaps forehead*
> So THAT's why it says "Fuhrerschein" in the list of translations.

That is so you can drive on 'Hitlerian motorways'

--
Tony Dragon

[Adrian]

Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

>>> I have checked in my wallet & I do have a 'licience to kill' so as a
>>> 'killer motorist'

>> *slaps forehead*
>> So THAT's why it says "Fuhrerschein" in the list of translations.

> That is so you can drive on 'Hitlerian motorways'

D'oh.

Now, if you'll just excuse me, SWMBO is about to leave the house to catch
a train to work - hopefully, it'll be Mussoliniesque punctual.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
> > blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
>
> >>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> >>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> >>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> >>> master cylinder...
> >> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
> >> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>
> > Don't you mean 'crash'?
>
> > It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> > crashes leaves something to be desired.
>
> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>
Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.

Try reading the original source at the start of this thread for a
change.
>
> > Also, it is not necessary to
> > wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
>
> And they are not, so what's the problem?
>
If you don't know then you are beyond help.
>
> > though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
>
>
> You mean leaving cars on the road that might have a problem.
>
Nope. DO have a problem.
>
> There is only one problem I can see, and it's not with cars.
>
Yes, the problem is for the people drivers are allowed to kill or
injure with defective cars.

> > -- .
> > UK Radical Campaigns.
> >http://www.zing.icom43.net
> > A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 15 June, 07:40, Adrian > wrote:
> Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying:
>
> >>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> >>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30,
> >>>> 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the
> >>>> brake master cylinder...
> >>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during
> >>> the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
> >> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>
> No, he means "accident". How many times do you need telling that
> "accident" does not carry any implication of lack of blame, merely lack
> of intent?
>
How many times do you need to be reminded of this?

"Experts in the field of injury prevention avoid use of the term
'accident' to describe events that cause injury in an attempt to
highlight the predictable and preventable nature of most injuries.
Such incidents are viewed from the perspective of epidemiology -
predictable and preventable. Preferred words are more descriptive of
the event itself, rather than of its unintended nature (e.g.,
collision, drowning, fall, etc.)"

So, until the known faults are corrected there is a collision waiting
to happen which is no 'accident'.
>
> >> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> >> crashes leaves something to be desired.
> > So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>
> Here's a fact...
>
> The issue is with the very small %age of Cee'ds fitted with the optional
> ESP. As such, the problem will not be one that will affect normal braking
> at all, but will only affect the operation of the ESP (which wasn't even
> available as an option on the majority of the range, only top-spec).
>
Nope, Anything which poses a possible threat to human life is not a
mere molehill. When will you finally admit to that?

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Adrian]

Doug > gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

>> >>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door,
>> >>> SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March
>> >>> 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace
>> >>> the brake master cylinder...

>> >> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>> >> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???

>> > Don't you mean 'crash'?

>> > It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>> > crashes leaves something to be desired.

>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.

> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.

468 of 31,000 Kias sold in the UK in 2008 alone.

> Try reading the original source at the start of this thread for a
> change.

Try reading some of the replies to the thread for a change. The actual
issue is merely a minor problem in a system that was an optional extra on
a small proportion of models within just one model range. It is a system
that makes no difference in the vast majority of driving, only when
driving at the very outer limits of handling and grip.

[GT]

> How do you justify your claim

He never does - he just posts some news story, then leaves us to argue about
it. He is actually keeping this group going with at least half of its...
er... discussions!

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
> > blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
>
> >>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> >>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> >>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> >>> master cylinder...
> >> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during
> >> the
> >> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>
> > Don't you mean 'crash'?
>
> > It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
> > crashes leaves something to be desired.
>
> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>

Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.

Which is precisely why there is *not* a problem - they are being recalled,
fixed and sent on their way again. Not a single one has caused any problems
and Kia are just being sensible and taking preventitive measures to fix a
potential problem. You should be pleased, not complaining about it!

And you really do need to learn how to post properly! You have made this
reply look like a mess. The first sentence of my reply here is Doug's reply
that he failed to indent properly.

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
On 15 June, 07:40, Adrian > wrote:
> Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying:
>
> >>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> >>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30,
> >>>> 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the
> >>>> brake master cylinder...
> >>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during
> >>> the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
> >> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>
> No, he means "accident". How many times do you need telling that
> "accident" does not carry any implication of lack of blame, merely lack
> of intent?
>
D:
"How many times do you need to be reminded of this?"

We don't need to be reminded of anything. You are wrong - we know it! You
are the one that needs to be reminded.

D:
"Experts in the field of injury prevention avoid use of the term
'accident' to describe events that cause injury in an attempt to
highlight the predictable and preventable nature of most injuries.
Such incidents are viewed from the perspective of epidemiology -
predictable and preventable. Preferred words are more descriptive of
the event itself, rather than of its unintended nature (e.g.,
collision, drowning, fall, etc.)"

These words are only preferred by propeganda and protesters. They are not
used by normal people in everyday life when talking about accidents.

D:
"So, until the known faults are corrected there is a collision waiting
to happen which is no 'accident'."

No, you are wrong. You are wrong because if an incident isn't an accident
then it must be deliberate. You are saying that a driver who sets out on a
journey in a car that he thinks is perfect, but who subsequently 'crashes'
has done so deliberately! You are confusing the line between 3 terms:
accident - preventable accident - deliberate crash.

This post is a mess and hard to decipher who said what because Doug can't
indent his posts properly. I have tried to help by inserting a D: before
Doug's rants.

[NM]

On 16 June, 07:33, Adrian > wrote:
> Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying:
>
> >>> I have checked in my wallet & I do have a 'licience to kill' so as a
> >>> 'killer motorist'
> >> *slaps forehead*
> >> So THAT's why it says "Fuhrerschein" in the list of translations.
> > That is so you can drive on 'Hitlerian motorways'
>
> D'oh.
>
> Now, if you'll just excuse me, SWMBO is about to leave the house to catch
> a train to work - hopefully, it'll be Mussoliniesque punctual.

Urban myth, or not, maybe, so I have heard.

[Tony Dragon]

Doug wrote:
> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
>>>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
>>>>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
>>>>> master cylinder...
>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident during the
>>>> period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>
> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.

A very few

>
> Try reading the original source at the start of this thread for a
> change.

I have, have you?


>>> Also, it is not necessary to
>>> wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,
>> And they are not, so what's the problem?
>>
> If you don't know then you are beyond help.

One of us is, & it;s not me.

>>> though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
>>
>> You mean leaving cars on the road that might have a problem.
>>
> Nope. DO have a problem.

How many of these cars have a problem?

>> There is only one problem I can see, and it's not with cars.
>>
> Yes, the problem is for the people drivers are allowed to kill or
> injure with defective cars.

Yes dear, that must be it.

>
>>> -- .
>>> UK Radical Campaigns.
>>> http://www.zing.icom43.net
>>> A driving licence is a licence to kill.


--
Tony Dragon

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:
> On 15 June, 07:40, Adrian > wrote:
>> Tony Dragon > gurgled happily, sounding
>> much like they were saying:
>>
>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d
>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1,
>>>>>> 2008 and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be
>>>>>> carried out to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>
>> No, he means "accident". How many times do you need telling that
>> "accident" does not carry any implication of lack of blame, merely
>> lack of intent?
>>
> How many times do you need to be reminded of this?
>
> "Experts in the field of injury prevention avoid use of the term
> 'accident' to describe events that cause injury in an attempt to
> highlight the predictable and preventable nature of most injuries.
> Such incidents are viewed from the perspective of epidemiology -
> predictable and preventable. Preferred words are more descriptive of
> the event itself, rather than of its unintended nature (e.g.,
> collision, drowning, fall, etc.)"
>
> So, until the known faults are corrected there is a collision waiting
> to happen which is no 'accident'.
>>
>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>
>> Here's a fact...
>>
>> The issue is with the very small %age of Cee'ds fitted with the
>> optional ESP. As such, the problem will not be one that will affect
>> normal braking at all, but will only affect the operation of the ESP
>> (which wasn't even available as an option on the majority of the
>> range, only top-spec).
>>
> Nope, Anything which poses a possible threat to human life is not a
> mere molehill. When will you finally admit to that?

Like a killer cyclist?


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:
> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d
>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>
>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>
>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>
>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>
> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.

How many accidents have they caused then?

> Try reading the original source at the start of this thread for a
> change.
>>
>>> Also, it is not necessary to
>>> wait for someone to be killed before trying to cure known faults,

How many accidents have they caused then?

>> And they are not, so what's the problem?
>>
> If you don't know then you are beyond help.
>>
>>> though leaving such cars on our roads is asking for trouble.
>>
>>
>> You mean leaving cars on the road that might have a problem.
>>
> Nope. DO have a problem.

How many accidents have they caused then?

>> There is only one problem I can see, and it's not with cars.
>>
> Yes, the problem is for the people drivers are allowed to kill or
> injure with defective cars.

How many accidents have they caused then?


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[FrengaX]

On Jun 16, 7:47*am, Doug > wrote:
>
> Nope, Anything which poses a possible threat to human life is not a
> mere molehill. When will you finally admit to that?

Wrong again, Doug. But, for you, that's not really anything new. And
once again you demonstrate you total inability to exercise a sense of
proportion.

There are a million and one things which are a "possible threat" to
human life ranging from the very probable to the infinitessimally
likely. Your claim that "_anything_ which poses a possible threat to
human life is not a mere molehill" suggests that they all should be
taken very seriously and mitigated against. Anyone who knows the
slightest thing about risk analysis knows that is not, and can not, be
the case.

Go and do some research on risk planning, and then you'll know.

[Marie]

On Jun 14, 6:27*pm, Doug > wrote:
> "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> master cylinder...
>
> More:http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-news/index.php/2010...
>
> -- .
> UK Radical Campaigns.http://www.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.

Doug, why do you continue to cut'n'paste a piece of news you have
picked up on the web.
You then lie, distort, twist, selectivly cut, edit replies to make
some point that only you can see.
When on a very rare occasion you hit on a real problem, the above
antics diminish any point that could be made.
Afetr a few weeks you will post a similer topic again, and then will
lie about what other people have said in the past.
If you had any sense you would find a real problem & post reasonable
comments & then you just might make a difference.
You really are a stupid, lieing, devious person.

[Derek C]

On Jun 16, 10:54*pm, Marie > wrote:
> On Jun 14, 6:27*pm, Doug > wrote:

>
> > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> > insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> > featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
>
> Doug, why do you continue to cut'n'paste a piece of news you have
> picked up on the web.
> You then lie, distort, twist, selectivly cut, edit replies to make
> some point that only you can see.
> When on a very rare occasion you hit on a real problem, the above
> antics diminish any point that could be made.
> Afetr a few weeks you will post a similer topic again, and then will
> lie about what other people have said in the past.
> If you had any sense you would find a real problem & post reasonable
> comments & then you just might make a difference.
> You really are a stupid, lieing, devious person.- Hide quoted text -
>
There is no need to be so polite. Why don't you say what you really
think about Doug?

[Tony Dragon]

Derek C wrote:
> On Jun 16, 10:54 pm, Marie > wrote:
>> On Jun 14, 6:27 pm, Doug > wrote:
>
>>> "Kia Motors is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
>>> emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>>> Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
>>> insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
>>> featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
>>> and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
>>> to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
>>> master cylinder...
>>
>> Doug, why do you continue to cut'n'paste a piece of news you have
>> picked up on the web.
>> You then lie, distort, twist, selectivly cut, edit replies to make
>> some point that only you can see.
>> When on a very rare occasion you hit on a real problem, the above
>> antics diminish any point that could be made.
>> Afetr a few weeks you will post a similer topic again, and then will
>> lie about what other people have said in the past.
>> If you had any sense you would find a real problem & post reasonable
>> comments & then you just might make a difference.
>> You really are a stupid, lieing, devious person.- Hide quoted text -
>>
> There is no need to be so polite. Why don't you say what you really
> think about Doug?
>

Not everything she says is true.

--
Tony Dragon

[Doug[_3_]]

On 16 June, 22:54, Marie > wrote:
> On Jun 14, 6:27*pm, Doug > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> > insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> > featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > master cylinder...
>
> > More:http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-news/index.php/2010...
>
>
> Doug, why do you continue to cut'n'paste a piece of news you have
> picked up on the web.
>
Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
others, by people like you.
>
> You then lie, distort, twist, selectivly cut, edit replies to make
> some point that only you can see.
> When on a very rare occasion you hit on a real problem, the above
> antics diminish any point that could be made.
> Afetr a few weeks you will post a similer topic again, and then will
> lie about what other people have said in the past.
> If you had any sense you would find a real problem & post reasonable
> comments & then you just might make a difference.
> You really are a stupid, lieing, devious person.
>
See what I mean?

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Derek C]

On Jun 17, 7:58*am, Doug > wrote:
> On 16 June, 22:54, Marie > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 14, 6:27*pm, Doug > wrote:
>
> > > "Kia Motors *is to recall some cee’d and Picanto models after it
> > > emerged there may be some safety issues with the brakes.
>
> > > Kia has identified that up to 468 cee’d models could suffer from
> > > insufficient brake force from the master cylinder on vehicles
> > > featuring Electronic Stability Programme systems.
>
> > > The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee’d five-door, SW
> > > and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008 and March 30, 2009
> > > to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out to replace the brake
> > > master cylinder...
>
> > > More:http://www.contracthireandleasing.com/car-leasing-news/index.php/2010...
>
> > Doug, why do you continue to cut'n'paste a piece of news you have
> > picked up on the web.
>
> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
> others, by people like you.
>
> > You then lie, distort, twist, selectivly cut, edit replies to make
> > some point that only you can see.
> > When on a very rare occasion you hit on a real problem, the above
> > antics diminish any point that could be made.
> > Afetr a few weeks you will post a similer topic again, and then will
> > lie about what other people have said in the past.
> > If you had any sense you would find a real problem & post reasonable
> > comments & then you just might make a difference.
> > You really are a stupid, lieing, devious person.
>
> See what I mean?
>
Just means that you have been rumbled Doug!

[Derek geldard]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
wrote:


>Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>others, by people like you.

Great, I knew you'd see it our way.

The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.

Derek

[Doug[_3_]]

On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
> wrote:
>
> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
> >others, by people like you.
>
> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>
> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>
Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>
I forgot to add, 'not just places to try to provoke a response'.

So it should have read...

'Not just places to personally insult others, by people like you, or
try to provoke an unguarded response by means of personal insults.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[GT]

"The Medway Handyman" > wrote in message
news:EL8Sn.59002$nW1.56697@hurricane...
> Doug wrote:
>> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee'd
>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>
>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>>
>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>>
>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>>
>> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.
>
> How many accidents have they caused then?

We know the answer is zero, but Doug gets very upset if you call it an
accident. He won't reply to your question because you have a valid point. As
far as he is concerned, any driver getting into a car is setting out to
deliberately crash into a pedestrial, cyclist or house. In his eyes, there
are no car journeys that don't involve a deliberate crash or at least
driving badly!

[GT]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>> >others, by people like you.
>>
>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?

I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is news, the
careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but very badly skewed
personal opinion which serves only to annoy people and provoke response
which is exactly what you just told him he shouldn't do!

[Tony Dragon]

GT wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > wrote in message
> news:EL8Sn.59002$nW1.56697@hurricane...
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee'd
>>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>>>
>>> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.
>> How many accidents have they caused then?
>
> We know the answer is zero, but Doug gets very upset if you call it an
> accident. He won't reply to your question because you have a valid point. As
> far as he is concerned, any driver getting into a car is setting out to
> deliberately crash into a pedestrial, cyclist or house. In his eyes, there
> are no car journeys that don't involve a deliberate crash or at least
> driving badly!
>
>

Those pedestrials are a menace & deserve all they get. :-)

--
Tony Dragon

[Tony Dragon]

GT wrote:
> "The Medway Handyman" > wrote in message
> news:EL8Sn.59002$nW1.56697@hurricane...
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee'd
>>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>>>
>>> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.
>> How many accidents have they caused then?
>
> We know the answer is zero, but Doug gets very upset if you call it an
> accident. He won't reply to your question because you have a valid point. As
> far as he is concerned, any driver getting into a car is setting out to
> deliberately crash into a pedestrial, cyclist or house. In his eyes, there
> are no car journeys that don't involve a deliberate crash or at least
> driving badly!
>
>

Those pedestrials are a menace & deserve all they get. :-)

--
Tony Dragon

[Tony Dragon]

Doug wrote:
> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>>> others, by people like you.
>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
> I forgot to add, 'not just places to try to provoke a response'.
>
> So it should have read...
>
> 'Not just places to personally insult others, by people like you, or
> try to provoke an unguarded response by means of personal insults.
>
> -- .
> UK Radical Campaigns
> www.zing.icom43.net
> A driving licence is a licence to kill.
>
>
>

Why do you insult me all the time by calling me a 'killer'?

--
Tony Dragon

[Tony Dragon]

GT wrote:
> "Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>>>> others, by people like you.
>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>>
>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>>
>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>
> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is news, the
> careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but very badly skewed
> personal opinion which serves only to annoy people and provoke response
> which is exactly what you just told him he shouldn't do!
>
>

Indeed.

--
Tony Dragon

[GT]

"Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
...
> GT wrote:
>> "The Medway Handyman" > wrote in
>> message news:EL8Sn.59002$nW1.56697@hurricane...
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>>>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee'd
>>>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>>>>
>>>> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.
>>> How many accidents have they caused then?
>>
>> We know the answer is zero, but Doug gets very upset if you call it an
>> accident. He won't reply to your question because you have a valid point.
>> As far as he is concerned, any driver getting into a car is setting out
>> to deliberately crash into a pedestrial, cyclist or house. In his eyes,
>> there are no car journeys that don't involve a deliberate crash or at
>> least driving badly!
>
> Those pedestrials are a menace & deserve all they get. :-)

At least I only posted my typo once! ;-)

[GT]

"Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
...
> Doug wrote:
>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>>>> others, by people like you.
>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>>
>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>>
>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>> I forgot to add, 'not just places to try to provoke a response'.
>>
>> So it should have read...
>>
>> 'Not just places to personally insult others, by people like you, or
>> try to provoke an unguarded response by means of personal insults.
>
> Why do you insult me all the time by calling me a 'killer'?

Because you have a car. A car once killed a cyclist, therefore the other 50
million cars (or whatever the number is) in the UK are not convenient,
efficient forms of transport, but are all weapons bought and used solely to
kill more cyclists. Every journey that a car takes is a deliberate mission
to kill a cyclist. If the journey arrives at the destination without killing
a cyclist (as billions of journeys do), then that's just lucky for the
cyclist - the deliberate attempt to kill a cyclist failed that time, but on
the journey home - watch out cyclists! etc etc. Doug is not 'all there'. He
is the bearded tree hugging type that break into secure areas of airports in
order to sit on the runway and stand in the way of progress in the name
of... er.. I dont know what.

[Derek geldard]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:45:39 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
wrote:

>On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>> >others, by people like you.
>>
>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
>Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?

Why say BBC ???

Let's not say BBC.

You repost far more megabytes of turgid old rent - a - gob crap from
such as indymedia some of it years old .

Even BBC news content is out of date within 12 hours and we are
perfectly capable of deciding whether we want to see / hear it over
again without you choosing what is politically correct enough for us
to be exposed to.

Honecker / Ceausescu --esque proof by selective reporting only works
if you can control all sources of information.

You are ****ing up a rope.

Derek

[Tony Dragon]

GT wrote:
> "Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> GT wrote:
>>> "The Medway Handyman" > wrote in
>>> message news:EL8Sn.59002$nW1.56697@hurricane...
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> On 15 June, 07:28, Tony Dragon > wrote:
>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>> On 14 June, 20:12, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
>>>>>>> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The car maker is contacting the owners of the 468 cee'd
>>>>>>>>> five-door, SW and three-door vehicles built between April 1, 2008
>>>>>>>>> and March 30, 2009 to arrange for no-cost work to be carried out
>>>>>>>>> to replace the brake master cylinder...
>>>>>>>> So, how many of these 468 vehicles was involved in an accident
>>>>>>>> during the period April 1, 2008 to March 30, 2009???
>>>>>>> Don't you mean 'crash'?
>>>>>>> It is not known at this time as investigation and reporting of car
>>>>>>> crashes leaves something to be desired.
>>>>>> So you posted a 'scare' storey without knowing the facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. The fact is that Kia's are being recalled on safety grounds.
>>>> How many accidents have they caused then?
>>> We know the answer is zero, but Doug gets very upset if you call it an
>>> accident. He won't reply to your question because you have a valid point.
>>> As far as he is concerned, any driver getting into a car is setting out
>>> to deliberately crash into a pedestrial, cyclist or house. In his eyes,
>>> there are no car journeys that don't involve a deliberate crash or at
>>> least driving badly!
>> Those pedestrials are a menace & deserve all they get. :-)
>
> At least I only posted my typo once! ;-)
>
>

It was an echo, honest guv!

--
Tony Dragon

[Tony Dragon]

GT wrote:
> "Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Doug wrote:
>>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>>>>> others, by people like you.
>>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>>>
>>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>>>
>>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>>> I forgot to add, 'not just places to try to provoke a response'.
>>>
>>> So it should have read...
>>>
>>> 'Not just places to personally insult others, by people like you, or
>>> try to provoke an unguarded response by means of personal insults.
>> Why do you insult me all the time by calling me a 'killer'?
>
> Because you have a car. A car once killed a cyclist, therefore the other 50
> million cars (or whatever the number is) in the UK are not convenient,
> efficient forms of transport, but are all weapons bought and used solely to
> kill more cyclists. Every journey that a car takes is a deliberate mission
> to kill a cyclist. If the journey arrives at the destination without killing
> a cyclist (as billions of journeys do), then that's just lucky for the
> cyclist - the deliberate attempt to kill a cyclist failed that time, but on
> the journey home - watch out cyclists! etc etc. Doug is not 'all there'. He
> is the bearded tree hugging type that break into secure areas of airports in
> order to sit on the runway and stand in the way of progress in the name
> of... er.. I dont know what.
>
>

How stupid of me, I forgot.

You will have to excuse me now, I'm down on my quota, must go hunting.

--
Tony Dragon

[GT]

"Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
...
> GT wrote:
>> "Tony Dragon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>>>>>> others, by people like you.
>>>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>>>>
>>>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>>>>
>>>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>>>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>>>> I forgot to add, 'not just places to try to provoke a response'.
>>>>
>>>> So it should have read...
>>>>
>>>> 'Not just places to personally insult others, by people like you, or
>>>> try to provoke an unguarded response by means of personal insults.
>>> Why do you insult me all the time by calling me a 'killer'?
>>
>> Because you have a car. A car once killed a cyclist, therefore the other
>> 50 million cars (or whatever the number is) in the UK are not convenient,
>> efficient forms of transport, but are all weapons bought and used solely
>> to kill more cyclists. Every journey that a car takes is a deliberate
>> mission to kill a cyclist. If the journey arrives at the destination
>> without killing a cyclist (as billions of journeys do), then that's just
>> lucky for the cyclist - the deliberate attempt to kill a cyclist failed
>> that time, but on the journey home - watch out cyclists! etc etc. Doug is
>> not 'all there'. He is the bearded tree hugging type that break into
>> secure areas of airports in order to sit on the runway and stand in the
>> way of progress in the name of... er.. I dont know what.
>
> How stupid of me, I forgot.
>
> You will have to excuse me now, I'm down on my quota, must go hunting.

Double points if you can get them while they are still in their house

[Doug[_3_]]

On 17 June, 11:26, "GT" > wrote:
> "Doug" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
> >> >others, by people like you.
>
> >> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>
> >> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>
> > Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
> > item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>
> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is news, the
> careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but very badly skewed
> personal opinion which serves only to annoy people and provoke response
> which is exactly what you just told him he shouldn't do!
>
Nope, you are wrong. He used the word 'paste'. I paste in news but
don't paste in my own comments. So you see he was referring to actual
news but called it not news. As I also nearly always include a link,
that pasted news is easy to verify even if it has been truncated by
me.

Besides, everybody else does it too.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[Brimstone]

"Doug" > wrote in message
...
> On 17 June, 11:26, "GT" > wrote:
>> "Doug" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>> >> >others, by people like you.
>>
>> >> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>> >> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
>> > Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>> > item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>>
>> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is news,
>> the
>> careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but very badly
>> skewed
>> personal opinion which serves only to annoy people and provoke response
>> which is exactly what you just told him he shouldn't do!
>>
> Nope, you are wrong. He used the word 'paste'. I paste in news but
> don't paste in my own comments. So you see he was referring to actual
> news but called it not news. As I also nearly always include a link,
> that pasted news is easy to verify even if it has been truncated by
> me.
>
> Besides, everybody else does it too.
>
Wrong.

(Not pasted.)

[Derek geldard]

On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:14:45 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
wrote:

>On 17 June, 11:26, "GT" > wrote:
>> "Doug" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally insult
>> >> >others, by people like you.
>>
>> >> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>> >> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
>> > Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>> > item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>>
>> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is news, the
>> careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but very badly skewed
>> personal opinion which serves only to annoy people and provoke response
>> which is exactly what you just told him he shouldn't do!
>>
>Nope, you are wrong. He used the word 'paste'. I paste in news but
>don't paste in my own comments. So you see he was referring to actual
>news but called it not news. As I also nearly always include a link,
>that pasted news is easy to verify even if it has been truncated by
>me.
>
>Besides, everybody else does it too.
>

Picks their nose ?

Derek

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:
> On 17 June, 11:26, "GT" > wrote:
>> "Doug" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally
>>>>> insult others, by people like you.
>>
>>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>>
>>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>>
>>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
>>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>>
>> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is
>> news, the careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but
>> very badly skewed personal opinion which serves only to annoy people
>> and provoke response which is exactly what you just told him he
>> shouldn't do!
>>
> Nope, you are wrong. He used the word 'paste'. I paste in news but
> don't paste in my own comments. So you see he was referring to actual
> news but called it not news. As I also nearly always include a link,
> that pasted news is easy to verify even if it has been truncated by
> me.
>
> Besides, everybody else does it too.

BTW Doug, how many people have been killed by these 'defective' cars?


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.

[Doug[_3_]]

On 21 June, 19:01, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > On 17 June, 11:26, "GT" > wrote:
> >> "Doug" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >>> On 17 June, 09:23, Derek Geldard > wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT), Doug >
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Because these are NEWS groups. Not just places to personally
> >>>>> insult others, by people like you.
>
> >>>> Great, I knew you'd see it our way.
>
> >>>> The turgid old crap you paste is not of course news.
>
> >>> Are you seriously trying to suggest that when I paste in a current
> >>> item directly from, say, the BBC website, it is NOT news?
>
> >> I think he is trying to point out that while the link you post is
> >> news, the careful editing and slander you add to it is not news, but
> >> very badly skewed personal opinion which serves only to annoy people
> >> and provoke response which is exactly what you just told him he
> >> shouldn't do!
>
> > Nope, you are wrong. He used the word 'paste'. I paste in news but
> > don't paste in my own comments. So you see he was referring to actual
> > news but called it not news. As I also nearly always include a link,
> > that pasted news is easy to verify even if it has been truncated by
> > me.
>
> > Besides, everybody else does it too.
>
> BTW Doug, how many people have been killed by these 'defective' cars?
>
It is not known at this time as some killings due to them may have not
been properly investigated. However, it is not necessary for there to
be ANY deaths at all for a potential danger to be recognised and acted
upon. It is called 'The Precautionary Principle' which is often used
to safeguard human lives and the sooner you recognise this the better.

"The precautionary principle states that if an action or policy has a
suspected risk of causing harm to the public or to the environment, in
the absence of scientific consensus that the action or policy is
harmful, the burden of proof that it is not harmful falls on those
taking the action..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

So it is up to you to prove that these defective cars are safe, not
for me to prove they are not safe.

Unfortunately this principle is not used by authority for cars with
known defects and they are allowed to continue to be used on our
roads, as a serious danger to others, which is a very serious
shortcoming of existing legislation. Indeed potential killers on our
roads are given considerable latitude, sometimes even after they have
killed.

-- .
UK Radical Campaigns.
http://www.zing.icom43.net
A driving licence is a licence to kill.

[The Medway Handyman[_2_]]

Doug wrote:
> On 21 June, 19:01, "The Medway Handyman"
>>
>> BTW Doug, how many people have been killed by these 'defective' cars?
>>
> It is not known at this time as some killings due to them may have not
> been properly investigated.

So, that'll be 'none' then. If you knew of any you would be shouting it
from the rooftops.

> However, it is not necessary for there to
> be ANY deaths at all for a potential danger to be recognised and acted
> upon.

Which is why the makers have responsibly decided to recall the vehicles.

> It is called 'The Precautionary Principle' which is often used
> to safeguard human lives and the sooner you recognise this the better.

I recognise that from the Rio Declaration. Load of old bollox from
wholewheat dungaree wearing yoghurt knitters.

> So it is up to you to prove that these defective cars are safe, not
> for me to prove they are not safe.

Afraid not ****wit. Look up Burden of Proof.
>
> Unfortunately this principle is not used by authority for cars with
> known defects and they are allowed to continue to be used on our
> roads, as a serious danger to others, which is a very serious
> shortcoming of existing legislation.

No it isn't **** for brains. Its the authorities using common sense.

>Indeed potential killers on our
> roads are given considerable latitude, sometimes even after they have
> killed.

Ze Plane! Ze Plane!


--
Dave - intelligent enough to realise that a push bike is a kid's toy, not a
viable form of transport.