Good roadcraft? Or a bit of a knob.

[mileburner]

Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.

But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?

What do the panel think?

[Clive George]

On 04/07/2010 16:37, mileburner wrote:
> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
> of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
> was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
> but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
> I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
> overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
> as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
> to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
> would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
> knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>
> What do the panel think?

Car drivers who sound their horns in that situation annoy me. I know
they're there, I can hear them from quite a way off. No, I'm not
ignoring them, I'm riding where I am deliberately.

I am sometimes tempted to stop, and do an innocent "What's wrong?" - eg
start looking at the bike as if something is falling off.

Fortunately nobody's done it in a while.

[Rob Morley]

On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:37:22 +0100
"mileburner" > wrote:

> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the
> centre of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had
> noticed there was a car approaching from behind but was some way off
> when I last looked, but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a
> "toot toot toot" (from behind). I immediately give an outstretched
> right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't overtake now mate because
> this is really a very bad place to overtake". But as I come out of
> the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over to the
> edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some
> actually would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or
> was he I knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>
> What do the panel think?
>

Is the road narrow and twisty enough that he might have been alerting
any oncoming traffic to his approach, rather than you? Otherwise he was
probably being a bit of a knob by assuming that you were unaware of his
presence, or by expecting you to move over so he could overtake, or
something.

[mileburner]

"Rob Morley" > wrote in message
news:20100704171832.07297c53@bluemoon...
> On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:37:22 +0100
> "mileburner" > wrote:
>
>> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
>> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the
>> centre of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had
>> noticed there was a car approaching from behind but was some way off
>> when I last looked, but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a
>> "toot toot toot" (from behind). I immediately give an outstretched
>> right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't overtake now mate because
>> this is really a very bad place to overtake". But as I come out of
>> the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over to the
>> edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
>> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some
>> actually would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>>
>> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or
>> was he I knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>>
>> What do the panel think?
>>
>
> Is the road narrow and twisty enough that he might have been alerting
> any oncoming traffic to his approach, rather than you?

No chance http://tinyurl.com/b1093-doddington

Otherwise he was
> probably being a bit of a knob by assuming that you were unaware of his
> presence, or by expecting you to move over so he could overtake, or
> something.

[Squashme]

On 4 July, 16:37, "mileburner" > wrote:
> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
> of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
> was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
> but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
> I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
> overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
> as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
> to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
> would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
> knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>
> What do the panel think?

Personally, I am quite happy to let them overtake in such a situation
and find whatever destiny awaits them around the bend. They apparently
own the road by paying "Road Tax", and I am quite happy to let them
them buy the farm, too, if they so desire.
If there was something obviously dangerous, I guess that I would try
to let them know, but why should they pay attention to a sponger
mounted on a kid's toy?

[mileburner]

"Squashme" > wrote in message
...
> On 4 July, 16:37, "mileburner" > wrote:
>> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
>> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the
>> centre
>> of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
>> was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last
>> looked,
>> but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from
>> behind).
>> I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver,
>> "don't
>> overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake".
>> But
>> as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move
>> over
>> to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
>> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some
>> actually
>> would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>>
>> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he
>> I
>> knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>>
>> What do the panel think?
>
> Personally, I am quite happy to let them overtake in such a situation
> and find whatever destiny awaits them around the bend.

The problem is of course, what if, if all of a sudden, they are faced with
oncoming traffic.

Do they:
a) Take a head-on with whatever it is coming (car van HGV bus etc).
or
b) Wipe out the cyclist they are overtaking.

As much as I would *like* drivers to respect cyclists, when faced with a
choice of a head-on collision, or obliterating the cyclist, I think the
likely choice is that the cyclist is collateral damage.

Therefore, it is important (for us) to not allow the driver to have to make
that split second choice.

(I know what I would do is I were the driver :-( )

They apparently
> own the road by paying "Road Tax", and I am quite happy to let them
> them buy the farm, too, if they so desire.
> If there was something obviously dangerous, I guess that I would try
> to let them know, but why should they pay attention to a sponger
> mounted on a kid's toy?

I have saved a few drivers from having to make the choice. When it happens,
they are usually thankful that you saved them from their own stupidity. When
there is no "apparent" danger, they wonder what the fuss was about.

[Jim A]

On 07/04/2010 04:37 PM, mileburner wrote:
> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
> of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
> was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
> but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
> I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
> overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
> as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
> to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
> would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
> knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>
> What do the panel think?

The horn should only be used to warn your presence to other road users.
If the driver was going safely to overtake you, it shouldn't have been
necessary to use the horn. Maybe (s)he thought (s)he was being helpful,
so I wouldn't jump to the 'knob' diagnosis.




.... but then again ... you did say it was an Audi :-)



--
www.slowbicyclemovement.org - enjoy the ride

[JMS]

On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 16:37:22 +0100, "mileburner"
> wrote:

>Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
>approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
>of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
>was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
>but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
>I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
>overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
>as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
>to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
>being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
>would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
>But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
>knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?
>
>What do the panel think?
>


I think that you were the knob - and the motorist spotted that you
were probably not safe on the road and could not trust any action you
may take.

[Jim A]

On 07/04/2010 10:02 PM, JMS wrote:
> I think that you were the knob - and the motorist spotted that you
> were probably not safe on the road and could not trust any action you
> may take.

I don't trust you, JMS. Where's your sig?

--
www.slowbicyclemovement.org - enjoy the ride

[mileburner]

"Jim A" > wrote in message
...
> On 07/04/2010 10:02 PM, JMS wrote:
>> I think that you were the knob - and the motorist spotted that you
>> were probably not safe on the road and could not trust any action you
>> may take.
>
> I don't trust you, JMS. Where's your sig?
>

JMS <sigh> is clearly wrong on that one.

I was riding in a safe position and predictable manner.

Driver toots from behind.

I signal to the driver.

Driver obeys signal.

I see road ahead clear, move over and signal to driver to pass.

Driver passes.

(though I will gladly confess to being a bit of a knob :-) )

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 20:37:19 +0100 someone who may be Jim A
> wrote this:-

>Maybe (s)he thought (s)he was being helpful,
>so I wouldn't jump to the 'knob' diagnosis.

If (s)he though (s)he was being helpful then I think the 'knob'
diagnosis is correct.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000023_en_8#pt3-pb3-l1g54

[JMS]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 07:11:32 +0100, "mileburner"
> wrote:

<snip>


>
>(though I will gladly confess to being a bit of a knob :-) )
>


Which was the point I was making - the driver realised - I have
realised - and now you have confirmed same.

Thanks.

--

"I have never said that I encourage my children to wear helmets. I would challenge judith
to find the place where I said I encourage my children to wear helmets." Guy Chapman
Judith then produced the web page where he said "I encourage my children to wear helmets."
Later that day Chapman immediately added the following to the web page:
"This page is out of date and preserved only for convenience" but he left the date last updated as 31/08/2004.

[thirty-six]

On 4 July, 16:37, "mileburner" > wrote:
> Out on my ride today, after a long straight stretch of road, I was
> approaching a blind bend. The road was fairly narrow so I was in the centre
> of my side of the road (to stop any daft overtaking). I had noticed there
> was a car approaching from behind but was some way off when I last looked,
> but as I am about to enter the bend I hear a "toot toot toot" (from behind).
> I immediately give an outstretched right arm signal to tell the driver, "don't
> overtake now mate because this is really a very bad place to overtake". But
> as I come out of the bend I can see the road ahead is clear so I move over
> to the edge, stop pedalling, and wave him by. I give a big wave, for him
> being so courteous (for alerting me and not overtaking where some actually
> would). Incidentally and FWIW, the car was an Audi.
>
> But it left me thinking, was he just practicing good roadcraft? Or was he I
> knob who I had forced to practice good roadcraft?


Look on the good side of things. Whatyever the intentions, all is
well. Perhaps a single toot of the horn should have been sufficient
to raise your awareness of a following vehicle, but whatever, you
should just consider it a warning of approach. By making the sounding
early, you know the driver is not stopping nor turning off and does
wish to pass. You acknowledge the indication and pull over in a safe
pklace for passing of your choosing.
By waiting until after the bend the passing place may have been missed
and the horn could be interpreted as being directed at some other as
yet unseen (before the bend) road user.