Vancouver police officer dies while mountain biking in Columbia Gorge

[Mike Vandeman[_4_]]

So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!

Mike


http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/index.ssf/2010/08/vancouver_police_officer_dies_while_mountain_bikin g_in_columbia_gorge.html

Vancouver police officer dies while mountain biking in Columbia Gorge


Published: Tuesday, August 03, 2010, 4:01 PM Updated: Tuesday,
August 03, 2010, 4:16 PM

Michael Russell, The Oregonian

Courtesy of Vancouver policeAndrew Young
A 45-year-old Vancouver police officer died while mountain-biking last
week in the Columbia River Gorge, the Vancouver Police Department
reported.

Andrew Young, an 18-year veteran of the Honolulu and Vancouver police
departments, was off-duty when he collapsed near Hood River July 30,
said Kim Kapp, a police department spokeswoman.

The police department did not disclose his cause of death, saying that
he suffered from a "medical emergency."

Young joined the Vancouver force in February 1999 after spending
nearly seven years with the Honolulu Police Department, Kapp said.

When the department maintained a full-time bicycle patrol, he
patrolled the city on bike, Kapp said. He was most recently assigned
to a patrol car.

The public is invited to attend a memorial service for Young at 4 p.m.
on Friday Aug. 6 at the Holy Redeemer Catholic Church, 17010 N.E. 9th
Street in Vancouver.

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Monday, July 26, 2010

Zion National Park (UT)
Boy Scout Dies During Backpacking Trip

On July 21st, twelve members of a Las Vegas-based Boy Scout troop were
completing the second day of a planned four day backpacking trip in the park.
Corey Buxton, 17, was having difficulty and lagged behind as the group hiked
south along the Hop Valley Trail. Around noon, a leader who was hiking a short
distance in front of Buxton turned around and did not see him. He hiked five
minutes back down the trail to the point where he last saw Buxton, but could not
find the boy. Rangers conducted a hasty search that afternoon by foot and
helicopter with no success. More than 25 NPS personnel participated in the
search the next day. Four dog teams from the Zion K-9 SAR Team, based in
Hurricane, Utah, joined the operation. Early in the afternoon, two of the dog
teams alerted on a side canyon near the point last seen. Ground searchers
discovered Buxton’s body there. It appears that he hiked about 500 feet off of
the trail and into the brushy side canyon. A cause of death will be determined
by the state medical examiner’s office. [Submitted by Ray O’Neil, Plateau
District Ranger]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Monday, July 26, 2010

Grand Teton National Park (WY)
Rangers Recover Climber’s Body From Garnet Canyon

Rangers are investigating the death of a young University of Michigan student
who apparently fell 80 feet after summiting the 12,804-foot Middle Teton on the
evening of Tuesday, July 20th. Jillian Drow, 21, of Chelsea, Michigan, became
separated from her climbing partner as they descended the mountain. When Drow
failed to return to a backcountry camp in Garnet Canyon, the group’s leader
began to search for her. He discovered Drow’s body around 9 p.m. The Teton
Interagency Dispatch Center received a cell phone call from the University of
Michigan group leader at 7:30 on Tuesday evening. He reported that a member of
their group of eight was missing and that they were searching for her
whereabouts; a second cell phone call was received just after 9:00 p.m.
reporting that Drow’s body had been found. Because of the late hour and waning
light, a helicopter flight was not possible. Four rangers were therefore
dispatched to hike up to the Garnet Canyon campsite to begin a recovery
operation. They arrived around 1:30 a.m. Six of the University of Michigan
students hiked out of the canyon to the valley floor in the early hours of
Wednesday morning, while park rangers remained with Drow and the group leader to
make preparations for an aerial evacuation with daylight on Wednesday morning.
An interagency helicopter flew Drow and the group leader out at 9:30 a.m. on
Wednesday, just a few hours before a severe lightning storm enveloped the Teton
Range. The lightning storm injured 17 climbers on the 13,770-foot Grand Teton
(see last Friday’s report) and a full-scale rescue mission was launched by park
rangers to rescue and extricate the injured climbers in the aftermath of the
Drow evacuation. [Submitted by Jackie Skaggs, Public Affairs Officer]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Monday, July 26, 2010

Rocky Mountain National Park (CO)
Body Of Backcountry Skier Found Near Cony Lake

Rangers were notified of an overdue backcountry skier early yesterday morning,
The 40-year- old Colorado man was reported to be an experienced backcountry
skier. He planned on hiking to Finch Lake on Saturday and skiing on a nearby
snowfield. Rangers found the man’s car at the Finch Lake trailhead and began
looking for him. They found his body on a snowfield above Cony Lake in the
Hutcheson Lakes drainage near the park’s southern boundary, about ten miles from
the nearest trailhead. It will be recovered today. The cause of death is not yet
known. [Submitted by Kyle Patterson, Public Affairs Officer]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Golden Gate National Recreation Area (CA)
Fisherman Falls To Death At Marin Headlands

On the afternoon of Saturday, July 10th, dispatch received a call reporting that
a man had fallen off a cliff at Rodeo Beach in the Marin Headlands. Rangers and
public safety personnel from the Presidio responded; patrol craft from the Coast
Guard and Marin County Sheriff’s Office were also dispatched. The reporting
party, talking through a Spanish interpreter, said that her husband had been
fishing on the rocky coast of Rodeo Beach when a large wave hit him and knocked
him off the rocks, causing him to fall about 40 feet to the water below. County
deputies found and retrieved the man and transferred him to the Coast Guard
vessel, Coast Guard personnel conducted CPR while he was being transported to a
waiting ambulance at Fort Baker. Southern Marin emergency responders pronounced
him dead at the Coast Guard Station. U.S. Park Police criminal investigators
conducted the follow up investigation. [Submitted by Kim Coast, Acting Chief
Ranger]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Gates Of The Arctic National Park & Preserve (AK)
Hiker Bitten By Animal

A Glennallen man was bitten on the hand, reportedly by a bear, during a
backpacking trip in the park last week. On July 16th, Kurt Skoog, 55, reported
that he was in his tent at about 2:30 a.m. when an unseen animal struck the
outside of the tent. Skoog raised his hand against the tent, and the animal took
his hand in its mouth and held it for a few seconds; when Skoog attempted to
pull his hand back, the animal bit. He recounted that the animal left after
about 30 seconds while Skoog “played dead” in the tent. He then heard the animal
cross the creek and depart from the area. Skoog was camping along Easter Creek,
west of Anaktuvuk Pass, in the Brooks Range. Skoog packed his gear and began
hiking out, contacting NPS staff at Agiak Lake about a dozen miles away from the
incident. He declined assistance, and continued hiking to Anaktuvuk Pass, more
than 30 miles to the east, where he received medical treatment on July 19th. He
then flew to Fairbanks where he was treated at Fairbanks Memorial Hospital,
National Park Service staff are investigating, and will try to determine if the
animal that bit Skoog was indeed a bear; tracks at Easter Creek did not provide
a clear identification, Skoog said. Bear-resistant food containers are required
in Gates of the Arctic, and are loaned for free at NPS ranger stations in park
gateway communities. Skoog had most of his food in an approved container. He may
have had some food outside the container, but the animal did not obtain any
food. [Submitted by John Quinley, Public Affairs Officer, Alaska Region]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Wednesday, July 28, 2010

Gateway National Recreation Area
Two Men Drown, Third Rescued Off Plum Island

On the afternoon of Saturday, July 24th, Sandy Hook Unit lifeguards, rangers,
and fire staff responded to a 911 call reporting a drowning off Plum Island.
Gonzalo Romero-Tlamintzi was with his wife and two-year-old daughter when he
stepped off a sandbar surrounding a tidal lagoon and lost his footing in the
current of the incoming tide. His wife, while holding the two-year-old, tried to
help him, but also fell into the water. His cousins Miguel Romero-Leon and
Martin Romero, both non-swimmers, entered the water to help rescue him. Visitors
in the area were able to help his wife and daughter from the water and
bystanders Bobby James of Woodbridge, New Jersey, and Howard Morris of Columbus,
Ohio, pulled Martin Romero from the water. He was unconscious and unresponsive,
and CPR was begun. Arriving park staff took over CPR and began a water search.
Lifeguards quickly located Romero-Leon in 15 feet of water on the northwest side
of the lagoon and began CPR. Rangers were assisting Romero-Tlamintzi’s wife when
she collapsed. It was then that they learned that a third person was missing.
The ground and water search resumed. Lifeguards found Romero-Tlamintzi about 45
minutes later. All of the victims were transported to Monmouth Medical Center by
local ambulance squads. Gonzalo Romero-Tlamintzi and Miguel Romero-Leon were
pronounced dead at the hospital. At last report, Martin Romero remained in the
hospital and was responsive. Natasha Romero-Tlamintzi and her daughter were
treated at the hospital immediately following the incident and have since been
discharged. Plum Island, located on the bayside of Sandy Hook, is a popular area
for fishing, seining, kiteboarding and windsurfing. The investigation into this
incident continues. [Submitted by Peter Tortorell, Law Enforcement Supervisor]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Wednesday, July 28, 2010

Glen Canyon National Recreation Area (AZ,UT)
Greek Visitor Falls To Death At Horseshoe Bend Overlook

Rangers responding to a report of a man falling from a cliff at the Horseshoe
Bend Overlook last Saturday found the body of a 20-year-old man at the base of
the cliff near the Colorado River. He was identified as a Greek national who had
been traveling with a small tour group. He’d fallen about 600 feet. Rangers and
county deputies recovered the body with the assistance of a helicopter and crew
from Grand Canyon and transferred it to the county medical examiner. The
Coconino County Sheriff's Office is conducting an investigation in coordination
with the National Park Service. [Submitted by Erin Frackleton]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Thursday, July 29, 2010

Buffalo National River (AR)
Visitor Drowns In Middle Buffalo River

Twenty-one year-old Justin Clark of Augusta, Arkansas, drowned in the Buffalo
River downstream from Grinders Ferry on Tuesday, July 27th. Around 12:30 p.m., a
ranger from the Middle District working out of Tyler Bend was contacted by a
visitor and advised that someone was underwater downstream of the landing. The
ranger notified dispatch, then commandeered a canoe from a visitor and headed
downstream, arriving at the scene within 15 minutes. The ranger called for
assistance from other rangers and requested a medevac helicopter. Clark was
found within minutes and CPR was begun as he was taken by canoe to Grinders
Ferry. Medical personnel took over there, but were unable to revive him.
Witnesses said that Clark had complained of leg cramps prior to his
disappearance. [Submitted by Robert Maguire, Chief Ranger]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Thursday, July 29, 2010

Yellowstone National Park (ID,MT,WY)
Woman Drowns In Firehole River

A 22-year-old woman died on Tuesday night at Eastern Idaho Regional Medical
Center from injuries sustained when she slipped under the surface of the water
at Firehole River near Old Faithful. Lin Ching-Ling, a Taiwanese national, was
submerged for approximately five minutes before bystanders were able to pull her
out of the water. Rangers and a paramedic responded to a call received at
approximately 1:35 p.m. regarding a woman who had been submerged in the water. A
park visitor saw the woman on the bottom of the river, approximately 10 feet
below the surface, and dove down to retrieve her. He then brought her to the
water’s edge, yelled for help, and immediately began CPR. A doctor and two
nurses who happened to be in the area quickly took over CPR efforts. When park
paramedics and rangers arrived, CPR was continued for about 40 minutes at the
scene, at which point the patient regained a pulse. She was then taken by
ambulance to Madison Junction where a waiting helicopter transported her to
Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center. She later died. [Submitted by Al Nash,
Public Affairs Officer]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Thursday, July 29, 2010

Mount Rainier National Park (WA)
Climber Dies In Fall Into Crevasse

A climber died Tuesday on Mount Rainier high on the Emmons Glacier. Lee F.
Adams, 52, of Seattle was descending from the summit as part of a four-man team
when the last person on the rope caught his crampon on the snow, tripped and
fell. The four climbers were swept off their feet and, despite attempts to
arrest the fall by digging their ice axes into the snow, they fell 100 feet and
plummeted into a 35-foot-deep crevasse. Adams, the last person into the
crevasse, died in the fall. The three surviving climbers scrambled out of the
crevasse and made their way back to Camp Schurman, the high camp at 9,450 feet,
arriving at 3:00 p.m. They spent the night there in the company of a climbing
ranger. On Wednesday, climbing rangers were dropped off by helicopter on the
summit of Mount Rainier and climbed down to the accident site at 13,000 feet.
They retrieved Adams’ body from the crevasse and it was airlifted off of the
mountain by helicopter. Two of the surviving climbers were able to hike out on
their own (accompanied by a climbing ranger) and the third was flown off of the
mountain. The incident commander was Nick Hall. [Submitted by Lee Taylor,
Information Officer]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Tuesday, August 03, 2010

Jean Lafitte National Historical Park and Preserve (LA)
Researcher Attacked And Bitten By Alligator

On the afternoon of July 28th, park employees responded to a frantic call for
help from a 29-year-old Louisiana State University researcher who had been
bitten by an alligator while taking soil samples along the Barataria visitor
center trail. Natural resource manager Dusty Pate arrived on scene within a
minute of receiving the call and was soon joined by protection ranger Mike
Callais, who began emergency first aid to stop the bleeding and secure the
wounded hand. The researcher, who was operating under a grant from the George
Wright Foundation to study climate effects on the Barataria Preserve, had been
attacked by a seven-foot alligator while collecting samples from the water
adjacent to the boardwalk. The researcher advised that she had been working
along the boardwalk when she spotted an alligator watching her from a little
over 200 yards away, but that she had lost sight of the reptile while walking
down the boardwalk. Callais and Pate began immediate emergency first aid to her
right hand, which was suffering from severe bite and tear wounds as well as an
open compound fracture. As soon as EMS transported her to the local hospital,
the park immediately closed park trails and boardwalks in the area of the
attack. Additional personnel were called in to locate the alligator. After a
short time, a seven-foot, 250-pound alligator was located very close to the area
where the attack occurred. Due to public safety concerns, the alligator was
killed. A thorough investigation into the incident revealed that the alligator
had most likely been the victim of repeated illegal human interaction involving
human food and had been "following" the researcher in hopes of obtaining a
handout. The researcher had no idea that the alligator was underneath the
boardwalk, which stands about 18 inches above the water. When she kneeled down
on the walkway to lean over and retrieve a plastic tube that had been inserted
into the water and soil below her, the alligator came from behind and underneath
her and grabbed onto her right hand, which was in the water. The alligator
immediately began to rotate while clamped down on her. The 100-pound researcher
was able to free her hand from the gator’s mouth, though, and then call for
help. Due to the severity of the bite, she was later transported from the local
hospital to the University Hospital in New Orleans, where she underwent
treatment for the wounds. She is scheduled to undergo surgery in the near
future. The park’s superintendent has ordered a stand down of all park activity
that involves the potential for interaction with alligators until such time that
an updated job hazard analysis has been conducted and properly reviewed by park
staff. [Submitted by John Hughes, Chief Ranger]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

http://home.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

THE MORNING REPORT
Tuesday, August 03, 2010

Lake Roosevelt National Recreation Area (WA)
Man Drowns Near Spring Canyon

Harrison Fischer, 23, of Spokane, Washington, was swimming with a group of
friends at a location known as “Pot Palace” near Spring Canyon on July 25th when
he was seen to roll off his tube and into the water. When he did not resurface,
one of the friends began diving in an effort to locate him while the others went
for help. After multiple attempts, Fischer was located and brought to the
surface. South District rangers Eric Valen, Bill Fee and Ryan Jaehrling
responded to the 911 call by boat from Spring Canyon and began CPR. Rangers
transported Fischer to the Spring Canyon launch ramp, where he was taken by
ambulance to Grand Coulee Medical Center. Efforts to resuscitate him proved
unsuccessful. Deputies from the Lincoln County Sheriff’s Office assisted at the
scene. An investigation is being conducted by the National Park Service and the
Grant County Coroner’s Office. Initial interviews indicate that the victim was
huffing from a can of air duster before entering the water, which may have been
a contributing factor in this incident. [Submitted by Marty Huseman, Chief
Ranger]

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

In article >,
Mike Vandeman says...
>
>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>
>Mike

<SNIP>

So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!

[[email protected]]

In rec.bicycles.soc Bob Berger > wrote:
> In article >,
> Mike Vandeman says...
> >
> >So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
> >
> >Mike

> <SNIP>

> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!

Game, set, and match to Bob. (Unless that's too dangerous too.)

[Edward Dolan]

"Bob Berger" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> Mike Vandeman says...
>>
>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>
>>Mike
>
> <SNIP>
>
> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!

Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal hiking
on a hiking trail will not.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.bicycles.soc Bob Berger > wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>> Mike Vandeman says...
>> >
>> >So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>> >
>> >Mike
>
>> <SNIP>
>
>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>
> Game, set, and match to Bob. (Unless that's too dangerous too.)

Not according to my score card. Bob Berger posts reports of outdoor
enthusiasts who take risks. Normal mountain biking is a high risk activity
as Mr. Vandeman has proven over and over. Walking on a hiking trail, even in
a Wilderness, is no risk at all (barring a sprained ankle or an occasional
attack of a bear).

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Bill Weir]

On Aug 4, 4:24*pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>
> Mike

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4664459282_50be8a1c25.jpg

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
...
> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>
> Mike


Poor ******* ran into an envirowhacko with a saw.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Bob Berger" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> Mike Vandeman says...
>>
>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>
>>Mike
>
> <SNIP>
>
> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>

I think the only "health benefits" that you can take ot the bank are the
benefits of sitting on the sofa and watching TV all day. Clearly the
benifits of this activity are very low, but they are reliable.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>
>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>
> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>

Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>
>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>
>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>
>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>>
>
> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.

Mountain bikers need their own trails. They should never be on a hiking
trail.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> Poor ******* ran into an envirowhacko with a saw.

The only *******s I know about are the criminal idiot mountain bikers.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

In article >,
Bill Weir says...
>
>On Aug 4, 4:24=A0pm, Mike Vandeman > wrote:
>> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>
>> Mike
>
>http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4664459282_50be8a1c25.jpg

Bill:

I think perhaps we should be a bit kinder to our friend Mikey.

It's very rare that an insignificant nobody is able to impact the way words are
used to communicate ideas. Rodney King, for example, did so with his impassioned
question, "Why can't we all just get along?".

Now Mikey has given a whole new meaning to the phrase, "I saw you".

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>
>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>
>>>>Mike
>>>
>>> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>
>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>>
>
> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.
>
>

It's fine for me because I pay attention to the other users on the trail.

But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for the
biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has its
dangers too.

You tend to hile wherever you want, and demand that where you want to hike
be preserved for hikers, but the reality is that you hike on biking trails
and should, as a result, be careful.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Poor ******* ran into an envirowhacko with a saw.
>
> The only *******s I know about are the criminal idiot mountain bikers.
>

That's a lie, Ed. You are well acquainted with an envirowhacko that is known
(arrested for) carrying a saw on a trail, then using the saw to criminally
assault the trail users he encountered. Michael J.Vandeman is a CRIMINAL.
And he's an idiot. That makes him a criminal idiot, and you are well
acquainted with him.

Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head into
books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of your
position. No, probably not.

[Bob Berger[_2_]]

In article >, Jeff Strickland says...
>
>
>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>>
>>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike
>>>>
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>>
>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.

Jeff:

Have you noticed how those who wish to propagate anti-biking propaganda tend to
ignore reality?

For examples, anyone who claims hiking offers no risk has obviously not read Lee
Whittlesley's (NPS Yellowstone Park Historian) book, "Death in Yellowstone".

There are also the examples of the child, walking the hiking trail with her
parents from Bownam Bay to Riasrio Beach (in Washington State), who was killed
by a falling limb from a dead tree; or the hiker (again on a routine hiking
trail) killed a couple weeks ago in the North Cascades by falling rocks.

>>
>> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.
>>
>>

>It's fine for me because I pay attention to the other users on the trail.

>But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for the
>biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has its
>dangers too.

>You tend to hile wherever you want,

Jeff:

Shame on you for your Nazi reference to anti-bikers. :-)

>and demand that where you want to hike be preserved for hikers,
>but the reality is that you hike on biking trails and should,
>as a result, be careful.

[[email protected]]

In rec.bicycles.soc Edward Dolan > wrote:

> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article
> > >,
> > Mike Vandeman says...
> >>
> >>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
> >>
> >>Mike
> >
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!

> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed.

Or at least attacked with a saw.

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>>>
>>
>> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.
>
> It's fine for me because I pay attention to the other users on the trail.

It is the difficulties of cycling on an irregular trail itself that will get
you killed, not running into other users.

> But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for
> the biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has
> its dangers too.

No sane hiker would be on a biking trail. If only the reverse were true.

> You tend to hike wherever you want, and demand that where you want to hike
> be preserved for hikers, but the reality is that you hike on biking trails
> and should, as a result, be careful.

I wouldn't be caught dead on a biking trail. 99.99% of all trails are hiking
trails. The only biking trails I know about are the recently constructed
ones at mountain ski resorts like Aspen.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Bob Berger" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Jeff Strickland
> says...
>>
>>
>>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>>>
>>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>
> Jeff:
>
> Have you noticed how those who wish to propagate anti-biking propaganda
> tend to
> ignore reality?
>
> For examples, anyone who claims hiking offers no risk has obviously not
> read Lee
> Whittlesley's (NPS Yellowstone Park Historian) book, "Death in
> Yellowstone".

I have read that book and it is a good read. The darndest things can happen,
no doubt about it at all.

> There are also the examples of the child, walking the hiking trail with
> her
> parents from Bownam Bay to Riasrio Beach (in Washington State), who was
> killed
> by a falling limb from a dead tree; or the hiker (again on a routine
> hiking
> trail) killed a couple weeks ago in the North Cascades by falling rocks.

The examples you cite above are freak events. They do not relate to the
common accidents that moutain bikers suffer riding their bikes on hiking
trails. A mountain bike accident on a hiking trail is never a freak event.
It was just waiting to happen.

Mr. Vandeman posts relevant information on the dangers of normal mounain
biking on hiking trails; you post information caused by risky behavior and
now freak events. There is no comparison at all.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> Poor ******* ran into an envirowhacko with a saw.
>>
>> The only *******s I know about are the criminal idiot mountain bikers.
>>
>
> That's a lie, Ed. You are well acquainted with an envirowhacko that is
> known (arrested for) carrying a saw on a trail, then using the saw to
> criminally assault the trail users he encountered. Michael J.Vandeman is a
> CRIMINAL. And he's an idiot. That makes him a criminal idiot, and you are
> well acquainted with him.

The mountain bikers were on a trail that was specifically posted against
bicycles. That makes them the scofflaws that all mountain bikers are at
heart. Mr. Vandeman was most likely just defending himself from assault and
battery. Hikers should carry hand guns on their person to protect themselves
from criminal idiot mountain bikers in my not so humble opinion.

> Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head into
> books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of your
> position. No, probably not.

I would have pursued a woman if I wanted to make babies and have a family. I
never wanted that. It seems there is no shortage of people in the world, so
what are you complaining about?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Bob Berger" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Jeff Strickland
> says...
>>
>>
>>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>>>
>>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>
> Jeff:
>
> Have you noticed how those who wish to propagate anti-biking propaganda
> tend to
> ignore reality?
>

Yes, I notice that all of the time. Not only do they ignore reality, they
make up stuff that reality refutes.



> For examples, anyone who claims hiking offers no risk has obviously not
> read Lee
> Whittlesley's (NPS Yellowstone Park Historian) book, "Death in
> Yellowstone".
>

.... or the newspaper article where the hiker had to use his Swiss Army knife
to saw his own arm off.



> There are also the examples of the child, walking the hiking trail with
> her
> parents from Bownam Bay to Riasrio Beach (in Washington State), who was
> killed
> by a falling limb from a dead tree; or the hiker (again on a routine
> hiking
> trail) killed a couple weeks ago in the North Cascades by falling rocks.
>
>>>
>>> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.
>>>
>>>
>
>>It's fine for me because I pay attention to the other users on the trail.
>
>>But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for
>>the
>>biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has its
>>dangers too.
>
>>You tend to hile wherever you want,
>
> Jeff:
>
> Shame on you for your Nazi reference to anti-bikers. :-)
>

That was supposed to be HIKE. I hit the wrong key.
(PS The nazi reference would have been spelled, hiel, or is it heil? I
don't know or care.)


>>and demand that where you want to hike be preserved for hikers,
>>but the reality is that you hike on biking trails and should,
>>as a result, be careful.
>

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> [...]
>>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Normal hiking on a mountain biking trail is not for you either.
>>
>> It's fine for me because I pay attention to the other users on the trail.
>
> It is the difficulties of cycling on an irregular trail itself that will
> get you killed, not running into other users.
>
>> But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for
>> the biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has
>> its dangers too.
>
> No sane hiker would be on a biking trail. If only the reverse were true.
>
>> You tend to hike wherever you want, and demand that where you want to
>> hike be preserved for hikers, but the reality is that you hike on biking
>> trails and should, as a result, be careful.
>
> I wouldn't be caught dead on a biking trail. 99.99% of all trails are
> hiking trails. The only biking trails I know about are the recently
> constructed ones at mountain ski resorts like Aspen.
>


The truth is that 99% of the trails are for open use, and bicycles are not
restricted. Too bad you have to resort to blatant lies, like Vandeman.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, Jeff Strickland
>> says...
>>>
>>>
>>>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>> Mike Vandeman says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of any activity!
>>>>>
>>>>> Normal mountain biking on a hiking trail will get you killed. Normal
>>>>> hiking on a hiking trail will not.
>>
>> Jeff:
>>
>> Have you noticed how those who wish to propagate anti-biking propaganda
>> tend to
>> ignore reality?
>>
>> For examples, anyone who claims hiking offers no risk has obviously not
>> read Lee
>> Whittlesley's (NPS Yellowstone Park Historian) book, "Death in
>> Yellowstone".
>
> I have read that book and it is a good read. The darndest things can
> happen, no doubt about it at all.
>
>> There are also the examples of the child, walking the hiking trail with
>> her
>> parents from Bownam Bay to Riasrio Beach (in Washington State), who was
>> killed
>> by a falling limb from a dead tree; or the hiker (again on a routine
>> hiking
>> trail) killed a couple weeks ago in the North Cascades by falling rocks.
>
> The examples you cite above are freak events. They do not relate to the
> common accidents that moutain bikers suffer riding their bikes on hiking
> trails. A mountain bike accident on a hiking trail is never a freak event.
> It was just waiting to happen.
>
> Mr. Vandeman posts relevant information on the dangers of normal mounain
> biking on hiking trails; you post information caused by risky behavior and
> now freak events. There is no comparison at all.
> [...]
>

Vandeman NEVER posts anything of any relevence to anybody or anything. He
posted a story about a biker that crashed, and said it was a mountain biker.
The linked article clearly and spacifically said the bike was a Harley.

He posted a story of a mountain biker that was killed and thrown off a
cliff, as if the mountain biker was at fault for being killed (murdered) and
then tossed onto the rocks below. The mountain biker was riding his bike on
a two-lane highway in Chile or Peru, I forget which.

He has posted stories of mountain bi8kers that robbed the bank, but the
story said that the robber was, "last seen heading westbound on Main, riding
a bicycle." (no mention as to whether it was a stunt bike, road bike, or
beach cruiser.

He has posted numerous stories of guys that had heart attacks while riding,
and the doctors said they were ticking time bombs. Riding had nothing to do
with anything, and the workouts arguably extended their lives. They could
just as easily croaked while following you in the car, and pushed you into
the intersection where you could be hit by a semi.

When Vandeman comes up with anything that's relevent to anybody but you or
himself, I'll eat my hat.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Vandeman" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> So much for the alleged health benefits of mountain biking!
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poor ******* ran into an envirowhacko with a saw.
>>>
>>> The only *******s I know about are the criminal idiot mountain bikers.
>>>
>>
>> That's a lie, Ed. You are well acquainted with an envirowhacko that is
>> known (arrested for) carrying a saw on a trail, then using the saw to
>> criminally assault the trail users he encountered. Michael J.Vandeman is
>> a CRIMINAL. And he's an idiot. That makes him a criminal idiot, and you
>> are well acquainted with him.
>
> The mountain bikers were on a trail that was specifically posted against
> bicycles. That makes them the scofflaws that all mountain bikers are at
> heart. Mr. Vandeman was most likely just defending himself from assault
> and battery. Hikers should carry hand guns on their person to protect
> themselves from criminal idiot mountain bikers in my not so humble
> opinion.
>
>> Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head into
>> books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of your
>> position. No, probably not.
>
> I would have pursued a woman if I wanted to make babies and have a family.
> I never wanted that. It seems there is no shortage of people in the world,
> so what are you complaining about?
>


I'm not complaining, I perceive you as complaining about every little thing.
If you had a meaningful relationship and a couple of grand kids by now,
maybe you would be better-rounded, instead of the ****y old ******* that you
have turned into.

[ZeeTso]

"Bob Berger" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,

> It's very rare that an insignificant nobody is able to impact the way
> words are
> used to communicate ideas. Rodney King, for example, did so with his
> impassioned
> question, "Why can't we all just get along?".
>
> Now Mikey has given a whole new meaning to the phrase, "I saw you".

:)))

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>> Mr. Vandeman posts relevant information on the dangers of normal mountain
>> biking on hiking trails; you post information caused by risky behavior
>> and now freak events. There is no comparison at all.
>> [...]
>
> Vandeman NEVER posts anything of any relevence to anybody or anything. He
> posted a story about a biker that crashed, and said it was a mountain
> biker. The linked article clearly and spacifically said the bike was a
> Harley.
>
> He posted a story of a mountain biker that was killed and thrown off a
> cliff, as if the mountain biker was at fault for being killed (murdered)
> and then tossed onto the rocks below. The mountain biker was riding his
> bike on a two-lane highway in Chile or Peru, I forget which.
>
> He has posted stories of mountain bikers that robbed the bank, but the
> story said that the robber was, "last seen heading westbound on Main,
> riding a bicycle." (no mention as to whether it was a stunt bike, road
> bike, or beach cruiser.
>
> He has posted numerous stories of guys that had heart attacks while
> riding, and the doctors said they were ticking time bombs. Riding had
> nothing to do with anything, and the workouts arguably extended their
> lives. They could just as easily croaked while following you in the car,
> and pushed you into the intersection where you could be hit by a semi.
>
> When Vandeman comes up with anything that's relevent to anybody but you or
> himself, I'll eat my hat.

All of the events posted by Mr. Vandeman have in common the mentality of
mountain bikers.
That mentality is to take risks. It is bravado, macho nonsense and it will
get you killed sooner or later.

On the other hand, we hikers are sensible souls who, like Thoreau, merely
want to amble along in a leisurely manner and experience nature on a
mystical level. Absolutely no comparison at all.

Mountain bikers are in league with the Devil and hikers are angels beloved
of God.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>> It is the difficulties of cycling on an irregular trail itself that will
>> get you killed, not running into other users.
>>
>>> But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for
>>> the biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has
>>> its dangers too.
>>
>> No sane hiker would be on a biking trail. If only the reverse were true.
>>
>>> You tend to hike wherever you want, and demand that where you want to
>>> hike be preserved for hikers, but the reality is that you hike on biking
>>> trails and should, as a result, be careful.
>>
>> I wouldn't be caught dead on a biking trail. 99.99% of all trails are
>> hiking trails. The only biking trails I know about are the recently
>> constructed ones at mountain ski resorts like Aspen.
>
> The truth is that 99% of the trails are for open use, and bicycles are not
> restricted. Too bad you have to resort to blatant lies, like Vandeman.

Bicycles are not permitted on trails in Wilderness Areas nor are they
permitted on most National Park trails and many State Park trails. But the
point Mr. Vandeman and I are making is that bicycles should not be permitted
on ANY hiking trails no matter where they are located. It is an abomination
that they are.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"ZeeTso" > wrote in message ...
> "Bob Berger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>
>> It's very rare that an insignificant nobody is able to impact the way
>> words are
>> used to communicate ideas. Rodney King, for example, did so with his
>> impassioned
>> question, "Why can't we all just get along?".

Rodney King was a criminal the same way that mountain bikers are criminals.
Like him, they are always up to doing what they should not be doing.

>> Now Mikey has given a whole new meaning to the phrase, "I saw you".

If only he had. I say off with their heads!

> :)))

One smiley would have been quite enough.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>> The mountain bikers were on a trail that was specifically posted against
>> bicycles. That makes them the scofflaws that all mountain bikers are at
>> heart. Mr. Vandeman was most likely just defending himself from assault
>> and battery. Hikers should carry hand guns on their person to protect
>> themselves from criminal idiot mountain bikers in my not so humble
>> opinion.
>>
>>> Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head into
>>> books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of your
>>> position. No, probably not.
>>
>> I would have pursued a woman if I wanted to make babies and have a
>> family. I never wanted that. It seems there is no shortage of people in
>> the world, so what are you complaining about?
>
> I'm not complaining, I perceive you as complaining about every little
> thing. If you had a meaningful relationship and a couple of grand kids by
> now, maybe you would be better-rounded, instead of the ****y old *******
> that you have turned into.

I have a relationship with myself, something that you need to work on if you
ask me. Grand kids are no substitute for the 'self'. I recommend a 2 year
retreat at your local monastery where you can get away from all your
scrawling human detritus. After all, if you do not know yourself, you do not
know much at all.

The monastery should be one where no speech or human intercourse is allowed,
other than common prayer. Once you become a hermit like me, you will be fit
for other humans to associate with. Well adjusted adults do not like self-
centered maniacs who persecute Saints like Mr. Vandeman. Of course, a GREAT
SAINT like MYSELF is forever above the fray. It is why I am Great and you
aren't!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> [...]
>>> Mr. Vandeman posts relevant information on the dangers of normal
>>> mountain biking on hiking trails; you post information caused by risky
>>> behavior and now freak events. There is no comparison at all.
>>> [...]
>>
>> Vandeman NEVER posts anything of any relevence to anybody or anything. He
>> posted a story about a biker that crashed, and said it was a mountain
>> biker. The linked article clearly and spacifically said the bike was a
>> Harley.
>>
>> He posted a story of a mountain biker that was killed and thrown off a
>> cliff, as if the mountain biker was at fault for being killed (murdered)
>> and then tossed onto the rocks below. The mountain biker was riding his
>> bike on a two-lane highway in Chile or Peru, I forget which.
>>
>> He has posted stories of mountain bikers that robbed the bank, but the
>> story said that the robber was, "last seen heading westbound on Main,
>> riding a bicycle." (no mention as to whether it was a stunt bike, road
>> bike, or beach cruiser.
>>
>> He has posted numerous stories of guys that had heart attacks while
>> riding, and the doctors said they were ticking time bombs. Riding had
>> nothing to do with anything, and the workouts arguably extended their
>> lives. They could just as easily croaked while following you in the car,
>> and pushed you into the intersection where you could be hit by a semi.
>>
>> When Vandeman comes up with anything that's relevent to anybody but you
>> or himself, I'll eat my hat.
>
> All of the events posted by Mr. Vandeman have in common the mentality of
> mountain bikers.
> That mentality is to take risks. It is bravado, macho nonsense and it will
> get you killed sooner or later.
>

The only thing I see in common is that Vandeman is an idiot, and you're
gaining on him.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> [...]
>>> It is the difficulties of cycling on an irregular trail itself that will
>>> get you killed, not running into other users.
>>>
>>>> But, no matter, YOU said that biking on a hiking trail is dangerous for
>>>> the biker. I just wanted to point out that hiking on a biking trail has
>>>> its dangers too.
>>>
>>> No sane hiker would be on a biking trail. If only the reverse were true.
>>>
>>>> You tend to hike wherever you want, and demand that where you want to
>>>> hike be preserved for hikers, but the reality is that you hike on
>>>> biking trails and should, as a result, be careful.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't be caught dead on a biking trail. 99.99% of all trails are
>>> hiking trails. The only biking trails I know about are the recently
>>> constructed ones at mountain ski resorts like Aspen.
>>
>> The truth is that 99% of the trails are for open use, and bicycles are
>> not restricted. Too bad you have to resort to blatant lies, like
>> Vandeman.
>
> Bicycles are not permitted on trails in Wilderness Areas nor are they
> permitted on most National Park trails and many State Park trails. But the
> point Mr. Vandeman and I are making is that bicycles should not be
> permitted on ANY hiking trails no matter where they are located. It is an
> abomination that they are.
>

When there is a sign posting the trail CLOSED, then it is closed and is an
enforcement issue for the rangers, not Vandeman or you running around with
chainsaws attacking trail users. Until there is a CLOSED sign, the trails
are open.

Motorized vehicles are not allowed in the wilderness areas where I live,
human-powered vehicles (bikes) are okay, and should be okay. Obvious
exceptions are in heavily used areas, such as Yosemite Park and a couple of
others.

When you go wandering around the forest by your house, peeking into windows,
and are startled by a passing bike rider, too bad for you.

[Jeff Strickland[_2_]]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> [...]
>>> The mountain bikers were on a trail that was specifically posted against
>>> bicycles. That makes them the scofflaws that all mountain bikers are at
>>> heart. Mr. Vandeman was most likely just defending himself from assault
>>> and battery. Hikers should carry hand guns on their person to protect
>>> themselves from criminal idiot mountain bikers in my not so humble
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>>> Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head
>>>> into books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of
>>>> your position. No, probably not.
>>>
>>> I would have pursued a woman if I wanted to make babies and have a
>>> family. I never wanted that. It seems there is no shortage of people in
>>> the world, so what are you complaining about?
>>
>> I'm not complaining, I perceive you as complaining about every little
>> thing. If you had a meaningful relationship and a couple of grand kids by
>> now, maybe you would be better-rounded, instead of the ****y old *******
>> that you have turned into.
>
> I have a relationship with myself,

Yes, I'm certain that you do.



something that you need to work on if you
> ask me. Grand kids are no substitute for the 'self'. I recommend a 2 year
> retreat at your local monastery where you can get away from all your
> scrawling human detritus. After all, if you do not know yourself, you do
> not know much at all.
>

I know myself fine, it's people like you that I can't understand. You are a
****y old man that has turned into a selfish fool that only sees what you
want, not what anybody else wants or needs.

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>> All of the events posted by Mr. Vandeman have in common the mentality of
>> mountain bikers.
>> That mentality is to take risks. It is bravado, macho nonsense and it
>> will get you killed sooner or later.
>>
>
> The only thing I see in common is that [Mr.] Vandeman is an idiot, and
> you're gaining on him.

Edward Dolan also wrote:

"On the other hand, we hikers are sensible souls who, like Thoreau, merely
want to amble along in a leisurely manner and experience nature on a
mystical level. Absolutely no comparison at all.

Mountain bikers are in league with the Devil and hikers are angels beloved
of God."

If we are idiots, then we are Great Idiots whereas you are a minuscule
idiot, one not even worthy of mention in the same sentence as the Great Mr.
Vandeman and the Great Mr. Dolan. Like the mountain bikers you defend, you
are a desecrator of wilderness values and a minion of the Devil.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
[...]
>> Bicycles are not permitted on trails in Wilderness Areas nor are they
>> permitted on most National Park trails and many State Park trails. But
>> the point Mr. Vandeman and I are making is that bicycles should not be
>> permitted on ANY hiking trails no matter where they are located. It is an
>> abomination that they are.
>>
>
> When there is a sign posting the trail CLOSED, then it is closed and is an
> enforcement issue for the rangers, not Vandeman or you running around with
> chainsaws attacking trail users. Until there is a CLOSED sign, the trails
> are open.

Most wild and natural areas have general regulations by the managers saying
what one can do or not do on a trail, unless posted otherwise. It is up to
trail users to help the managers enforce regulations. I believe every hiker
should carry a bazooka and blow holes the size of cannon balls in mountain
bikers who are where they are not suppose to be. It would be our good deed
fro the day for which we would receive medals and other commendations.

> Motorized vehicles are not allowed in the wilderness areas where I live,
> human-powered vehicles (bikes) are okay, and should be okay. Obvious
> exceptions are in heavily used areas, such as Yosemite Park and a couple
> of others.

Probably mostly on BLM land. They are not known for good management. I can
assure you that vehicles of any type, including bicycles, are NOT allowed in
designated Wilderness Areas.

> When you go wandering around the forest by your house, peeking into
> windows, and are startled by a passing bike rider, too bad for you.

Jeff Strickland has obviously been stricken by something, most likely his
own gross stupidity. I will soon have to take him to the proverbial woodshed
for some lessons in manners if he does not get up to speed.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
>> [...]
>>>> The mountain bikers were on a trail that was specifically posted
>>>> against bicycles. That makes them the scofflaws that all mountain
>>>> bikers are at heart. Mr. Vandeman was most likely just defending
>>>> himself from assault and battery. Hikers should carry hand guns on
>>>> their person to protect themselves from criminal idiot mountain bikers
>>>> in my not so humble opinion.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe you should have pursued a woman instead of buryhing your head
>>>>> into books all of your life. Maybe you would understand the falicy of
>>>>> your position. No, probably not.
>>>>
>>>> I would have pursued a woman if I wanted to make babies and have a
>>>> family. I never wanted that. It seems there is no shortage of people in
>>>> the world, so what are you complaining about?
>>>
>>> I'm not complaining, I perceive you as complaining about every little
>>> thing. If you had a meaningful relationship and a couple of grand kids
>>> by now, maybe you would be better-rounded, instead of the ****y old
>>> ******* that you have turned into.
>>
>> I have a relationship with myself,
>
> Yes, I'm certain that you do.
>
> something that you need to work on if you
>> ask me. Grand kids are no substitute for the 'self'. I recommend a 2 year
>> retreat at your local monastery where you can get away from all your
>> scrawling human detritus. After all, if you do not know yourself, you do
>> not know much at all.
>
> I know myself fine, it's people like you that I can't understand. You are
> a ****y old man that has turned into a selfish fool that only sees what
> you want, not what anybody else wants or needs.

What you think you want or need ruins the natural world for the rest of us.
The only selfish fool I see here is you. You need to leave the world of your
grand kids and enter an adult world where responsible behavior matters.

Our prisons are full of types like you who think you have a right to do
whatever you want or need. **** that sentiment all the way to Hell and back!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota