Environmental militant slain at Silver Spring building after taking hostages

[Bill Weir]

Sound familiar? Someone should make sure the judge on Michael
Vandemans case reads this.


By Dan Morse,Theresa Vargasand Michael E. Ruane
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, September 1, 2010; 10:14 PM

James J. Lee divided the world into good and bad. According to his
writings on a Web site he created, people were bad, especially
"parasitic" babies.

Animals and bugs were good, Lee wrote. But war was bad, along with
global warming, pollution and international trade.

As for civilization?

The environmental militant who was killed Wednesday at the end of a
tense hostage standoff at Discovery Communications headquarters in
downtown Silver Spring, termed it "filth."

Lee, 43, who once threw money to bystanders as a protest along a
Silver Spring street and who believed that the world was better off
without people, was shot by police after the almost four-hour
standoff. Police have not publicly named Lee, but several local and
federal law enforcement sources identified him as the gunman.

Lee held a grudge against Discovery, viewing the network as a purveyor
of ideas he considered environmentally destructive and staging
protests outside its headquarters, according to authorities and court
records. Yet he met his end while getting little farther than the
lobby of the vast complex while the company alerted its thousands of
employees and urged them to stay in locked offices and then evacuate
using a designated stairwell.

Lee, whose environmental creed was spread across the Internet in a
series of manifestoes and blog posts, was killed at 4:48 p.m. after he
stalked into the building with a handgun, took three hostages and
later pointed his gun at one of them, said Montgomery County Police
Chief J. Thomas Manger.

The incident, in the headquarters of the global television corporation
just outside Washington, sent hundreds of employees streaming for
safety into the afternoon heat without their purses, wallets and
personal items. It snarled traffic and riveted media audiences, as Lee
had a gun and a bomb on his chest when he entered the building about 1
p.m. About 1,900 people work at the Discovery building.

Manger said that when Lee walked into the building, at Colesville Road
and Georgia Avenue, ordered people to freeze, but many fled.

Manger said Lee held three men - a security guard and two other
employees, hostage and forced them to get on the floor facedown.

The chief said police negotiated with Lee over next several hours
while a tactical team worked its way into a position where it could
see and hear the gunman. "They were watching him via camera, and they
were close enough to hear what he was saying and see what he was
doing," Manger said.

Police took action, Manger said, because the gunman became more
agitated. "At one point, the suspect . . . pulled out the handgun that
he came in with and pointed it at one of the hostages," Manger said.
"At that point, our tactical units moved in and shot the suspect."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/01/AR2010090103911.html

[Bill Weir]

On Sep 2, 3:48*pm, None > wrote:
> *
>
> those giving this man a hard time should bear in mind he understood
> many things about the environment. he overreacted, but he knew we
> cannot sustain this planet as it is.

Those defending this man should bear in mind he has been giving others
a hard time for years. He did more to
turn people off about caring for this planet than he did to unite
them. He was also wrong about many things regarding the environment
because he was blinded by his hatred for a specific group of people.

[Jym Dyer]

> Sound familiar? Someone should make sure the judge on
> Michael Vandemans case reads this.

=x= No, not even remotely familiar.

=x= I know that some of you love using "environmentalist"
as your primary adjective for MJV, most likely because you
have unrelated axes to grind, but get real. The guy has
gotten himself barred from the Sierra Club, and his views
are decidedly unpopular amongst the great majority of the
environmental movement. You're not being intellectually
honest to hold him up as some sort of exemplar.

=x= Ditto for James J. Lee, whose writing reveals him primarily
as an misanthropic sociopath. Everything he wrote hinges on
that; everything else is just dragged in to prop it up. On
one hand he's supposedly concerned about the environment; on
the other, he's a frothing racist wrt immigration. Holding
*him* up as an exemplar is also intellectually dishonest.

=x= If you have criticisms of either of these people, write
about those. This kind of dishonest pattern-matching just
comes across as stupid.
<_Jym_>

[Bill Weir]

On Sep 3, 3:41 am, Jym Dyer > wrote:
> > Sound familiar? Someone should make sure the judge on
> > Michael Vandemans case reads this.
>
> =x= No, not even remotely familiar.

Poppycock.

If someone posted...

“Nothing is more important than saving ... the Lions, Tigers,
Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants,
Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels. The humans? The planet
does not need humans.”

.... before anyone heard of James Lee, most, if not all, who read these
forums would have attributed that quote to Mike.

Both have extreme environmental views, both held grudges, both were
viewed as irrational, both were ticking time bombs!



>
> =x= I know that some of you love using "environmentalist"
> as your primary adjective for MJV, most likely because you
> have unrelated axes to grind, but get real. The guy has
> gotten himself barred from the Sierra Club, and his views
> are decidedly unpopular amongst the great majority of the
> environmental movement. You're not being intellectually
> honest to hold him up as some sort of exemplar.

I haven't seen anyone actually calling him and environmentalist
without also calling him
"whacko" "extremists", "nut", etc.

No one took his view of himself as an environmentalists seriously.


> =x= Ditto for James J. Lee, whose writing reveals him primarily
> as an misanthropic sociopath.

Those exact words have been used to describe Michael Vandeman long
before readers here heard of James Lee.

http://www.mtbnj.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-4053.html

http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?p=2088549

Google will give you many, many more examples.

>Everything he wrote hinges on
> that; everything else is just dragged in to prop it up. On
> one hand he's supposedly concerned about the environment; on
> the other, he's a frothing racist wrt immigration. Holding
> *him* up as an exemplar is also intellectually dishonest.
>
> =x= If you have criticisms of either of these people, write
> about those. This kind of dishonest pattern-matching just
> comes across as stupid.
> <_Jym_>

I would bet those that were on the other side of the handsaw would
disagree with you.

Very familiar.

[Edward Dolan]

"Bill Weir" > wrote in message
...
[...]

> I would bet those that were on the other side of the handsaw would
disagree with you.

None of us know what transpired, least of all this asshole who goes by the
name of Bill Weir.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Bill Sornson[_6_]]

"Bill Weir" > wrote in message
...
> On Sep 3, 3:41 am, Jym Dyer > wrote:
>> > Sound familiar? Someone should make sure the judge on
>> > Michael Vandemans case reads this.
>>
>> =x= No, not even remotely familiar.
>
> Poppycock.
>
> If someone posted...
>
> “Nothing is more important than saving ... the Lions, Tigers,
> Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants,
> Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels. The humans? The planet
> does not need humans.”
>
> ... before anyone heard of James Lee, most, if not all, who read these
> forums would have attributed that quote to Mike.
>
> Both have extreme environmental views, both held grudges, both were
> viewed as irrational, both were ticking time bombs!
>
>
>
>>
>> =x= I know that some of you love using "environmentalist"
>> as your primary adjective for MJV, most likely because you
>> have unrelated axes to grind, but get real. The guy has
>> gotten himself barred from the Sierra Club, and his views
>> are decidedly unpopular amongst the great majority of the
>> environmental movement. You're not being intellectually
>> honest to hold him up as some sort of exemplar.
>
> I haven't seen anyone actually calling him and environmentalist
> without also calling him
> "whacko" "extremists", "nut", etc.
>
> No one took his view of himself as an environmentalists seriously.
>
>
>> =x= Ditto for James J. Lee, whose writing reveals him primarily
>> as an misanthropic sociopath.
>
> Those exact words have been used to describe Michael Vandeman long
> before readers here heard of James Lee.
>
> http://www.mtbnj.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-4053.html
>
> http://www.cyclebanter.com/showthread.php?p=2088549
>
> Google will give you many, many more examples.
>
>>Everything he wrote hinges on
>> that; everything else is just dragged in to prop it up. On
>> one hand he's supposedly concerned about the environment; on
>> the other, he's a frothing racist wrt immigration. Holding
>> *him* up as an exemplar is also intellectually dishonest.
>>
>> =x= If you have criticisms of either of these people, write
>> about those. This kind of dishonest pattern-matching just
>> comes across as stupid.
>> <_Jym_>
>
> I would bet those that were on the other side of the handsaw would
> disagree with you.
>
> Very familiar.

On (this) topic: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38832

[Jym Dyer]

> ... most, if not all, who read these forums would have
> attributed that quote to Mike.

=x= If that is true (and I doubt that it is), then most, if
not all, who read these forums should maybe get out more and
see the world. The environmental movement does not revolve
around Mike. Not even the primitivists revolve around Mike.
James Lee's right-wing anti-immigrant blather similarly has
zero resemblance to anything Mike has written.

=x= Discernment is a far more useful skill than simplistic
pattern-matching.
<_Jym_>

[Bill Weir]

On Sep 6, 3:38*am, Jym Dyer > wrote:
> > ... most, if not all, who read these forums would have
> > attributed that quote to Mike.
>
> =x= If that is true (and I doubt that it is), then most, if
> not all, who read these forums should maybe get out more and
> see the world. *

I'm sure they do, but being as Vandeman has been spewing his rhetoric
for over a decade, the chances that any given person has read
something he has posted is great.

>The environmental movement does not revolve
> around Mike. *Not even the primitivists revolve around Mike.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

> James Lee's right-wing anti-immigrant blather similarly has
> zero resemblance to anything Mike has written.

I'm sure many things In James Lee's life bare zero resemblance To
Mike, but other things and writings do

The news article I responded about says nothing about James Lee's anti-
immigrant stance, only his left-wing,
radical environmental views and actions, like Mikes.

That's what my post was about, the behavior of an extremist, like
Mike.

> =x= Discernment is a far more useful skill than simplistic
> pattern-matching.

It sure is, especially when you want to apply a political label to
someone or their actions.

[Bill Weir]

On Sep 6, 3:38*am, Jym Dyer > wrote:
> > ... most, if not all, who read these forums would have
> > attributed that quote to Mike.
>
> =x= If that is true (and I doubt that it is), then most, if
> not all, who read these forums should maybe get out more and
> see the world. *

I doubt they are on here any more than you are. Mike has made quite
the name for himself, it doesn't take hours of sitting at a computer
to know who he is and what he's about.



>The environmental movement does not revolve
> around Mike. *Not even the primitivists revolve around Mike.

That's not news.

> James Lee's right-wing anti-immigrant blather similarly has
> zero resemblance to anything Mike has written.

But James Lee's left-wing blather does.

>
> =x= Discernment is a far more useful skill than simplistic
> pattern-matching.

Especially when applying political labels to others.

[Bill Sornson[_6_]]

"Bill Weir" > wrote in message
...
> On Sep 6, 3:38 am, Jym Dyer > wrote:

>> James Lee's right-wing anti-immigrant blather similarly has
>> zero resemblance to anything Mike has written.
>
> But James Lee's left-wing blather does.

Lee was convicted of smuggling illegal immigrants over the border:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/discovery-channel-attack-inside-james-lee-takedown/story?id=11541307

Does that sound like an anti-immigrant stance to...anyone?!?

BS (called)

[Jym Dyer]

>> =x= Discernment is a far more useful skill than simplistic
>> pattern-matching.
> Especially when applying political labels to others.

=x= "Environmental" is the main political label being applied
here, and the applicator is you. What's more, you're using
a huuuge brush to apply it with, and tarring a lot of other
people in the process.

=x= That's the entirety of the problem here.
<_Jym_>

[Jym Dyer]

> Lee was convicted of smuggling illegal immigrants over the border:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/discovery-channel-attack-inside-james-lee-takedown/story?id=11541307
> Does that sound like an anti-immigrant stance to...anyone?!?

=x= Does attacking the headquarters of the Discovery Channel
sound like a pro-environmental stance to...anyone?!?

=x= The thread is about what Lee wrote in his stupid manifesto.
If his actions don't jibe with his words, well, big surprise,
the nutcase isn't a paragon of consistency. From which we
can conclude nothing about (1) environmentalists nor (2) MJV.
Which is exactly my point.
<_Jym_>

[Bill Sornson[_6_]]

"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
>> Lee was convicted of smuggling illegal immigrants over the border:
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/discovery-channel-attack-inside-james-lee-takedown/story?id=11541307
>> Does that sound like an anti-immigrant stance to...anyone?!?
>
> =x= Does attacking the headquarters of the Discovery Channel
> sound like a pro-environmental stance to...anyone?!?

Well sure, when you have extremist groups taking "credit" for burning down
housing developments and other acts of civil disobedience that AlGore openly
advocated. (Google it; comes right up.)

But hey, humans are just "parasites" (especially minority ones according to
the vaunted founder of Planned Parenthood and proponents of Eugenics) that
deserve extermination.

Pretty simple, really.

BS

[Jym Dyer]

>> =x= Does attacking the headquarters of the Discovery Channel
>> sound like a pro-environmental stance to...anyone?!?
> Well sure, when you have extremist groups taking "credit" for
> burning down housing developments and other acts of civil
> disobedience that AlGore openly advocated. (Google it; comes
> right up.)

=v= That's some convoluted thinking there, Bill Sornson. I am
aware of the actions of ELF and ALF, and the pathetic, desperate
attempts to somehow link them to Al Gore. I file those attempts
under Bending Over Backwards to Put Your Head Up Your Ass.

=v= So now, lacking actual substance to construct an intelligent
argument with, the nutcases have rushed to add James Lee into
their narrative. You're accurate in one respect: Links to
denialist wingnut websites attempting to promote this smear do
indeed "come right up," like a bad case of food poisoning.
<_Jym_>

[Bill Sornson[_6_]]

"Jym Dyer" > wrote in message
...
>>> =x= Does attacking the headquarters of the Discovery Channel
>>> sound like a pro-environmental stance to...anyone?!?

>> Well sure, when you have extremist groups taking "credit" for
>> burning down housing developments and other acts of civil
>> disobedience that AlGore openly advocated. (Google it; comes
>> right up.)

> =v= That's some convoluted thinking there, Bill Sornson. I am
> aware of the actions of ELF and ALF, and the pathetic, desperate
> attempts to somehow link them to Al Gore. I file those attempts
> under Bending Over Backwards to Put Your Head Up Your Ass.

I'll type slowly, Jym (sic). It was James Lee HIMSELF who said he was
inspired by Al Gore. I'm not surprised that A) you haven't heard this in
the media; and B) when provided with links and/or quotes corroborating this,
you either ignore or deny them.

Ask yourself this, Jym (sic): do you think for one second (a stretch, I'll
grant you) that if James Lee had attended Tea Party events or (gasp)
listened to Rush Limbaugh, that A) the media wouldn't be reporting it 24/7;
and B) you wouldn't crow about it at the top of your lungs?

HTH (BKIW), BS

PS: How is it that someone who can't figure out how to post/quote
coherently can use some low-handed trick (fake group name) to make replying
to you a real PITA? Truly baffling. (AND, since you are such a PITA,
*PLONK*.)

[Jym Dyer]

> I'll type slowly, Jym (sic) [sic].

=v= I should expect so. I've never imagined your typing to be
any quicker than your wit. BTW, it is customary to use square
brackets for sic (see usage, above). The wrong punctation could
totally undermine your petty attempts to look erudite.

> It was James Lee HIMSELF who said he was inspired by Al Gore.

=v= Which, of course, says more about Lee's mental state than
anything Gore ever advocated. I never argued this point; what
I took issue with was this:

>>> ... extremist groups taking "credit" for burning down
>>> housing developments and other acts of civil disobedience
>>> that AlGore openly advocated.

Those are your exact words. There is nothing remotely true
about them.

> Ask yourself this, Jym (sic) [sic]: do you think for one
> second (a stretch, I'll grant you) that if James Lee had
> attended Tea Party events or (gasp) listened to Rush Limbaugh,
> that A) the media wouldn't be reporting it 24/7; and B) you
> wouldn't crow about it at the top of your lungs?

=v= I imagine that the media would make a fuss about any Tea
Party connection, but probably not about someone listening to
Limbaugh (or, more likely these days, watching Glenn Beck).
As for myself, though, I have more integrity than that. You
should try it sometime.

> ... can use some low-handed trick (fake group name) ...

=v= There's nothing fake about alt.shut.the.hell.up.geek,
which pretty much exists for followups to the likes of you.
S.T.H.U.G.,
<_Jym_>