Re: Cop Blocks Bike Lane To Ticket Cyclists For Not Using Lane

[Jens Müller[_3_]]

Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>

You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
code is that?

Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...

Jens

[Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]]

On 11/3/2010 11:28 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
>> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>
>
> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
> code is that?
>
Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(

> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>
The courts may throw out convictions if the police misbehave too badly,
but there are usually no other sanctions, particularly as regards the
individual wrongdoer.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

[Jens Müller[_3_]]

Am 04.11.2010 10:03, schrieb Tom Sherman °_°:
> On 11/3/2010 11:28 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
>> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
>>> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>
>>
>> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
>> code is that?
>>
> Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(

In Germany we have totally stupid laws.

There are mandatory cycle lanes, which are basically cycleways on the
carriageway.

And there are so-called "protection stripes/lanes". The law says nowhere
that cyclists have to use them. It even says that drivers (not: "other
drivers") are only allowed to use them when cyclists are not put in
danger ... Some semi-official interpretation says that cyclists have to
use them because of the duty to drive on the right, but most protection
lanes are not wide enough.

But there are also non-mandatory lanes/ways, and you can go to
administrative court to have the sign removed.

>> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>>
> The courts may throw out convictions if the police misbehave too badly,
> but there are usually no other sanctions, particularly as regards the
> individual wrongdoer.
>

I meant let the NYPD go to court with their ticket. Well, I'm not
familiar with US procedural law for violations. Maybe the assumed
offender has to take it to the court?

Jens

[Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]]

On 11/4/2010 10:06 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
> Am 04.11.2010 10:03, schrieb Tom Sherman °_°:
>> On 11/3/2010 11:28 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
>>> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
>>>> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>
>>>
>>> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
>>> code is that?
>>>
>> Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(
>
> In Germany we have totally stupid laws.
>
> There are mandatory cycle lanes, which are basically cycleways on the
> carriageway.
>
> And there are so-called "protection stripes/lanes". The law says nowhere
> that cyclists have to use them. It even says that drivers (not: "other
> drivers") are only allowed to use them when cyclists are not put in
> danger ... Some semi-official interpretation says that cyclists have to
> use them because of the duty to drive on the right, but most protection
> lanes are not wide enough.
>
> But there are also non-mandatory lanes/ways, and you can go to
> administrative court to have the sign removed.
>
>>> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>>>
>> The courts may throw out convictions if the police misbehave too badly,
>> but there are usually no other sanctions, particularly as regards the
>> individual wrongdoer.
>>
>
> I meant let the NYPD go to court with their ticket. Well, I'm not
> familiar with US procedural law for violations. Maybe the assumed
> offender has to take it to the court?
>
For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but
has to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and
avoid the fine. However, even if found not guilty, there is no
compensation for time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the
police, even if the police were behaving in an illegal manner.

[1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman °_°" > wrote in message
...
[...]
> For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but has
> to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and avoid
> the fine. However, even if found not guilty, there is no compensation for
> time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the police, even if the
> police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>
> [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.

Most violators and criminals are trash of various skin hues. All that
matters to me is that the judicial system be heavily biased against them.
Either that, or it is off to the Spanish Inquisition where just deserts are
readily served to the wicked.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]]

On 11/4/2010 8:44 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Tom Sherman > wrote in message
> ...
> [...]
>> For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but has
>> to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and avoid
>> the fine. However, even if found not guilty, there is no compensation for
>> time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the police, even if the
>> police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>>
>> [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.
>
> Most violators and criminals are trash of various skin hues. All that
> matters to me is that the judicial system be heavily biased against them.

Ed is trolling again.

> Either that, or it is off to the Spanish Inquisition where just deserts are
> readily served to the wicked.
>
Nobody expects the..., oh bugger!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

[Jens Müller[_3_]]

Am 05.11.2010 02:08, schrieb Tom Sherman °_°:
> For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but
> has to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and
> avoid the fine. However, even if found not guilty, there is no
> compensation for time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the
> police, even if the police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>
> [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.

I don't know what Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde is in English (LEO suggest
either disciplinary or formal complaint). You can always file that, it's
free of cost, and will cause some paperwork for the officer in question.

Jens

[Mike A Schwab]

On Nov 3, 11:28*am, Jens Müller > wrote:
> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
>
> > <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>
>
> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
> code is that?
>
> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>
> Jens

Circle around the block, the ride ON the police car. Hopefully a
broken light or dented body part will result.

[Opus[_2_]]

On Nov 5, 4:09*am, Jens Müller > wrote:
> Am 05.11.2010 02:08, schrieb Tom Sherman °_°:
>
> > For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but
> > has to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and
> > avoid the fine. *However, even if found not guilty, there is no
> > compensation for time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the
> > police, even if the police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>
> > [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.
>
> I don't know what Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde is in English (LEO suggest
> either disciplinary or formal complaint). You can always file that, it's
> free of cost, and will cause some paperwork for the officer in question.
>
> Jens

According to Google Translate it is Discipliniary Complaint. The
process for that in the US is convoluted and varies from city to city,
and in some cities has to rise to felony crimes to be considered. NYC
has one of the better complaint systems and even whith pictures and
video like in this case getting results is like pulling teeth. Just
consider the Pagan assault from 2008 on the CM rider, had there not
been a video of him tackling the rider off his moving bike most likely
the charges against the cyclist for assaulting an officer would have
been upheld in spite of several witness's statements that Pogan
tackled the cyclist off a moving bike not the cyclist assaulted the
officer.

[His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Free Spirits of the Jungle[_2_]]

On Nov 4, 9:08*pm, Tom Sherman °_°
> wrote:
> On 11/4/2010 10:06 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
>
> > Am 04.11.2010 10:03, schrieb Tom Sherman °_°:
> >> On 11/3/2010 11:28 AM, Jens Müller wrote:
> >>> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
> >>>> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl..php>
>
> >>> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
> >>> code is that?
>
> >> Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(
>
> > In Germany we have totally stupid laws.
>
> > There are mandatory cycle lanes, which are basically cycleways on the
> > carriageway.
>
> > And there are so-called "protection stripes/lanes". The law says nowhere
> > that cyclists have to use them. It even says that drivers (not: "other
> > drivers") are only allowed to use them when cyclists are not put in
> > danger ... Some semi-official interpretation says that cyclists have to
> > use them because of the duty to drive on the right, but most protection
> > lanes are not wide enough.
>
> > But there are *also non-mandatory lanes/ways, and you can go to
> > administrative court to have the sign removed.
>
> >>> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>
> >> The courts may throw out convictions if the police misbehave too badly,
> >> but there are usually no other sanctions, particularly as regards the
> >> individual wrongdoer.
>
> > I meant let the NYPD go to court with their ticket. Well, I'm not
> > familiar with US procedural law for violations. Maybe the assumed
> > offender has to take it to the court?
>
> For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but
> has to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and
> avoid the fine. *However, even if found not guilty, there is no
> compensation for time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the
> police, even if the police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>
> [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.

Thank you. At last I get some redemption.

And let me guess, the rich drive SUVs and the poor bicyles. ;)

Well, some minority does it for doing the right thing and health, but
that's only a minority. Well-off cyclists though use it for hobby.

It almost sounds like CLASS STRUGGLE, right?

[His Highness the TibetanMonkey & the Free Spirits of the Jungle[_2_]]

On Nov 4, 9:44*pm, "Edward Dolan" > wrote:
> "Tom Sherman °_°" > wrote in ...
> [...]
>
> > For a minor violation, the ticketed person can just pay the fine, but has
> > to go to court if he/she wants to proves his/her lack of guilt and avoid
> > the fine. *However, even if found not guilty, there is no compensation for
> > time and legal costs[1], and no sanctions against the police, even if the
> > police were behaving in an illegal manner.
>
> > [1] The USian judicial system is heavily biased in favor of the rich.
>
> Most violators and criminals are trash of various skin hues. All that
> matters to me is that the judicial system be heavily biased against them.
> Either that, or it is off to the Spanish Inquisition where just deserts are
> readily served to the wicked.

Bon appetit to the Spanish Inquisition if they eat you alive.

[Jym Dyer]

>> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of
>> stupid highway code is that?

=v= New York State has a law that makes use of these lanes
mandatory, but there's an exemption for New York City, which
has a bunch of exceptions that give bicyclists discretion
not to use the lanes. The NYPD is totally in the wrong here.

=v= Car-centric policies hinge on the false presumption that
bicyclists will slow down cars. What's funny is that the
first attempts to force bicyclists onto separate facilities
was because they were going faster than everyone else (The
Scorcher Menace). In fact, their first legal response was
to lower the speed limits on parallel roads so scorchers
could speed on the paths!

> Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(

=v= Yes, Tom, we're all aware that you can recite tropes from
Effective Cycling [TM] dogma word for word, over and over.

=v= Why don't you do something about it? Forester himself has
grumpily conceded that incompetent and lawbreaking cyclists (as
he put it) have won over the vehicularists, and has retreated
to Plan B: Directing his followers to focus on getting rid of
these mandatory use laws.

=v= That way, you see, the virtuous bicycle driving eeleete
won't have to share facilities with the rest of us unwashed ilk.
You'll just stick with all those totally competent, law-abiding
motorists.
<_Jym_>

[Jens Müller[_3_]]

Am 05.11.2010 20:24, schrieb Jym Dyer:
> =v= Why don't you do something about it? Forester himself has
> grumpily conceded that incompetent and lawbreaking cyclists (as
> he put it) have won over the vehicularists, and has retreated
> to Plan B: Directing his followers to focus on getting rid of
> these mandatory use laws.

Works fine for me (for individual obligations concerning a specific road):

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fopenjur.de%2Fu%2F31809-5_s_575-09.html

[Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]]

On 11/5/2010 7:13 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> On Nov 3, 11:28 am, Jens > wrote:
>> Am 31.10.2010 16:23, schrieb SMS:
>>
>>> <http://gothamist.com/2010/10/27/cop_blocks_bike_lane_to_ticket_cycl.php>
>>
>> You are obliged to use bike lanes in NY? What kind of stupid highway
>> code is that?
>>
>> Well, let that stupid NYPD go to court with that ...
>>
>> Jens
>
> Circle around the block, the ride ON the police car. Hopefully a
> broken light or dented body part will result.

More likely a broken and dented cyclist, after the police finish their
beating.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

[Tom Sherman °_°[_2_]]

On 11/5/2010 2:24 PM, Jym Dyer wrote:
> [...]
>> Build sidepaths, and the mandatory use laws will follow. :(
>
> =v= Yes, Tom, we're all aware that you can recite tropes from
> Effective Cycling [TM] dogma word for word, over and over.
>
That is in "Effective Cycling"? (My copy is buried in a packing box in
the garage).

> =v= Why don't you do something about it? Forester himself has
> grumpily conceded that incompetent and lawbreaking cyclists (as
> he put it) have won over the vehicularists, and has retreated
> to Plan B: Directing his followers to focus on getting rid of
> these mandatory use laws.
>
Thankfully, there are only sharrows where I ride. :)

> =v= That way, you see, the virtuous bicycle driving eeleete
> won't have to share facilities with the rest of us unwashed ilk.
> You'll just stick with all those totally competent, law-abiding
> motorists.
>
Better that than a pack of slow-moving cyclists on a separated path
(e.g. Amsterdam).

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.