Re: UCI Not Corrupt?

[Anton Berlin]

The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.

It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. I've documented
several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
new account.

If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
overnight. Same with doping and cycling.

[--D-y]

On Feb 3, 1:37*pm, Anton Berlin > wrote:
> The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
> profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.
>
> It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
> their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. *I've documented
> several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
> weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
> new account.
>
> If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
> overnight. * Same with doping and cycling.

I thought WADA was an "outside agency".

Ask Floyd (like Kimmage did) and you might think in-house dope control
could be amazingly effective at eliminating those who "we knew were
doping". I mean, you do believe Floyd *now*, right?

If ebay is full of cheats, don't go there. No one is forcing you to do
business through them.
It's the old advice that's best: pick the highest price, including
shipping, that you're willing to pay for an item, bid that price and
wait to see what happens. If you win, great. If you don't, then you
didn't pay too much.
For sellers, shill bids are good as long as they're not the last bid,
or you start getting deliberate "revenge" no-pays.
--D-y

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Anton Berlin" > wrote in message
...
> The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
> profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.
>
> It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
> their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. I've documented
> several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
> weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
> new account.
>
> If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
> overnight. Same with doping and cycling.

Anton: It's so much simpler than even that. A huge percentage of stolen
merchandise would disappear from eBay if they required just one thing-
Serial numbers included with descriptions, where available. This would cost
eBay zero, and enforcement would be through the feedback mechanism. Cleaning
up cycling is far more complicated.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

[Frederick the Great]

In article >,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:

> "Anton Berlin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
> > profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.
> >
> > It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
> > their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. I've documented
> > several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
> > weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
> > new account.
> >
> > If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
> > overnight. Same with doping and cycling.
>
> Anton: It's so much simpler than even that. A huge percentage of stolen
> merchandise would disappear from eBay if they required just one thing-
> Serial numbers included with descriptions, where available. This would cost
> eBay zero, and enforcement would be through the feedback mechanism. Cleaning
> up cycling is far more complicated.

Cycling will not be clean until the last professional
race is discontinued.

--
Old Fritz

[Fredmaster of Brainerd]

On Feb 4, 2:37*pm, Frederick the Great > wrote:
> In article >,
> *"Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Anton Berlin" > wrote in message
> ....
> > > The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
> > > profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.
>
> > > It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
> > > their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. *I've documented
> > > several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
> > > weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
> > > new account.
>
> > > If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
> > > overnight. * Same with doping and cycling.
>
> > Anton: It's so much simpler than even that. A huge percentage of stolen
> > merchandise would disappear from eBay if they required just one thing-
> > Serial numbers included with descriptions, where available. This would cost
> > eBay zero, and enforcement would be through the feedback mechanism. Cleaning
> > up cycling is far more complicated.
>
> Cycling will not be clean until the last professional
> race is discontinued.

Such naivete! You don't think there's widespread
doping in amateur races?

Dopedmaster Ben

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

"Frederick the Great" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" > wrote:
>
>> "Anton Berlin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > The only way to eliminate the fraud and corruption is to eliminate the
>> > profit motive for overseers, cheaters etc.
>> >
>> > It's like EBAY - they don't really care about shill bidding because
>> > their profits are greater when shill bidding occurs. I've documented
>> > several cases of shill bidding, EBAY usually turns them off for a few
>> > weeks and then they're back selling either with the same account or a
>> > new account.
>> >
>> > If an outside agency policed the fraud on EBAY it would cease
>> > overnight. Same with doping and cycling.
>>
>> Anton: It's so much simpler than even that. A huge percentage of stolen
>> merchandise would disappear from eBay if they required just one thing-
>> Serial numbers included with descriptions, where available. This would
>> cost
>> eBay zero, and enforcement would be through the feedback mechanism.
>> Cleaning
>> up cycling is far more complicated.
>
> Cycling will not be clean until the last professional
> race is discontinued.
>
> --
> Old Fritz

I rode maybe two pro-am races so I can't speak to the pros but there was
plenty of it in the amateur ranks back in the day. It wasn't part of a
system; more like an extension of recreational drug use. Kids popping
amphetamines. Why do you think getting rid of the pros will clean things up?
You'd get rid of some of the big $$$ and maybe see less-scientific doping,
but it's not going to go away.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA