Crap brakes in the wet

[Travis]

So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.

My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
cantilever design and they're horrible.

I've tried to tighten them up,but even still the amount of gripping
force they exert isn't very good, I can push the bike and roll the
wheels while applying the brakes, and they have lousy stopping power
(even in the dry) when I'm actually riding. Plus they make a lot of
noise.

Perhaps just a new set of pads would make a big difference to my MTB,
but I was wondering if after market brake calipers could help.

Any advice would be welcomed!

Travis

[Geoff Lock[_2_]]

On 20/05/2011 3:39 PM, Travis wrote:
> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.

Hm, "wet weather" brakes, eh? Never heard of them but then there are
lotsa things I have not heard of. :)

> My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
> mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
> cantilever design and they're horrible.

Maybe it is only an adjustment you need. Or maybe you only need to
remove the pads and just lightly sand them down with some fine-grade
sand paper to expose some fresh and unglazed rubber.

> I've tried to tighten them up,but even still the amount of gripping
> force they exert isn't very good, I can push the bike and roll the
> wheels while applying the brakes, and they have lousy stopping power
> (even in the dry) when I'm actually riding. Plus they make a lot of
> noise.

Squealing? Could be due to glazing on the pads. I had a similar problem
on one of my other bikes and after the sanding trick and some
adjustments, the gripping power of the pads improved sinificantly.

> Perhaps just a new set of pads would make a big difference to my MTB,
> but I was wondering if after market brake calipers could help.

If there is still lotsa "meat" on the pads, it would be a shame to
replace them - I'd try sanding them lightly first.

A fellow once suggested wiping the rim with some metho to remove any
oils and grease which may be present prior to re-installing your freshly
re-surfaced pads.

Note that a well-trued wheel is also a big help making sure your pads
grip the wheel equally on both sides :)

> Any advice would be welcomed!

I am sure others here in the newsgroup may have better suggestions as
there are some cluey ones lurking around.

[Rob]

On 20/05/2011 3:39 PM, Travis wrote:
> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>

You can get different compounds for the pads.

> My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
> mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
> cantilever design and they're horrible.
>

Same here different compounds. or you have a cheap brand of brake which
came with cheap pads.

I had Shimano XT brakes on my MTB they were always good. Have now
changed to disc on the front and its a much better proposition no grit,
squeals etc yet the braking power is not a savage - been over the bars
on more than one occasion with the cantilevers.

> I've tried to tighten them up,but even still the amount of gripping
> force they exert isn't very good, I can push the bike and roll the
> wheels while applying the brakes, and they have lousy stopping power
> (even in the dry) when I'm actually riding. Plus they make a lot of
> noise.
>
> Perhaps just a new set of pads would make a big difference to my MTB,
> but I was wondering if after market brake calipers could help.
>

Suggest the option of XT brakes is worth a look at. or a bike shop may
suggest an equivalent.

> Any advice would be welcomed!
>
> Travis

[terryc]

Travis wrote:
> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions,

Yes.

> but I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a
> "wet weather" brake pad

Not specifically. all you can realy do is try out different brakes pads
on your bicycle. caveat, what works for someone else, may not work/as
well for yours; different rim surfaces, different batch, etc.


> and they have lousy stopping power
> (even in the dry) when I'm actually riding.

Try different pads.

> Plus they make a lot of noise.

That is just a pedestrian warning device.

>
> Perhaps just a new set of pads would make a big difference to my MTB,
> but I was wondering if after market brake calipers could help.

Well, if the were cheap shop specials, most probably, but you could
spend more than the bicycle was purchased for. OTOH, that is a way to
upgrade to a better bicycle. Caveat,i'm not sure how much you can mix
bits these days.

[Theo Bekkers[_2_]]

"Travis" wrote

> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well
> when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions,
> but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather"
> brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.

Not really

> My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
> mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
> cantilever design and they're horrible.

Basic cantilever works pretty well on my MTB.

> I've tried to tighten them up,but even still the amount of gripping
> force they exert isn't very good, I can push the bike and roll the
> wheels while applying the brakes, and they have lousy stopping power
> (even in the dry) when I'm actually riding. Plus they make a lot of
> noise.

Adjust them so that the front of the pad has a slight toe-in, so that
the leading edge of the pad contacts first.

> Perhaps just a new set of pads would make a big difference to my
> MTB,

Cheap pads do not work!

Theo

[Gettamulla Tupya[_2_]]

On Thu, 19 May 2011 22:39:18 -0700 (PDT), Travis > wrote:

> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.

Besser block and some rope...

[Geoff Lock[_2_]]

On 21/05/2011 2:54 PM, Theo Bekkers wrote:
> "Travis" wrote
>

>> I've tried to tighten them up,but even still the amount of gripping
>> force they exert isn't very good, I can push the bike and roll the
>> wheels while applying the brakes, and they have lousy stopping power
>> (even in the dry) when I'm actually riding. Plus they make a lot of
>> noise.
>
> Adjust them so that the front of the pad has a slight toe-in, so that
> the leading edge of the pad contacts first.

A slight toe-in on the leading edge? Hm, I would have tort that getting
the trailing end of the pad to catch first might be better as there
would not be any "digging-in" effect from the leading edge, which can
result in juddering(?). Maybe I am thinking about a brand new pad with
nice sharply defined edges.

Anyway, I guess after a few goes, the leading edge of the pad would
probably round off due to abrasion and pressure would, then, be applied
gradually back along the contact area of the pad onto the rim.

For the record, I try to align my brake pads as close as and as parallel
as possible to the rim - which never really quite work out that way, ever :(

Assuming, of cos, that one has a reasonably trued wheel.

[Theo Bekkers[_2_]]

"Geoff Lock" wrote
> On 21/05/2011 2:54 PM, Theo Bekkers wrote:

>> Adjust them so that the front of the pad has a slight toe-in, so
>> that
>> the leading edge of the pad contacts first.

> A slight toe-in on the leading edge? Hm, I would have tort that
> getting the trailing end of the pad to catch first might be better
> as there would not be any "digging-in" effect from the leading edge,
> which can result in juddering(?). Maybe I am thinking about a brand
> new pad with nice sharply defined edges.

Ahh sorry, by leading edge I meant the end facing towards the front of
the bike. As you corrected me, that is indeed the trailing edge of the
brake.

Theo

[Shirley Nott[_2_]]

"Rob" > wrote in message ...
> On 20/05/2011 3:39 PM, Travis wrote:
>> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
>> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
>> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
>> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
>> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>>
>
> You can get different compounds for the pads.

Also, old pads are crap. Replace them before they feel like cement blocks...

Shirley Nott.

[John Henderson]

Travis wrote:

> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.

Kool-Stop makes a special pad compound for wet weather - the
Kool-Stop Salmon range. Sheldon Brown was a vocal advocate, and
for dry weather use as well:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

I've used them for years on our rim-brake bikes, and can vouch
for their wet performance. If they don't grip, nothing will.

At least at one stage, Kool-Stop also made a red pad. These are
not the same compound. Simply put, the Salmon pads contain the
magic ingredient: rust.

They can be found occasionally in Australian LBSs.

John

[TimC[_2_]]

On 2011-05-20, Travis (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>
> My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
> mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
> cantilever design and they're horrible.

Is it possible that it's a cheap supermarket class mountain bike with
steel wheels?

Steel wheels simply will not ever stop in the rain. You can make a
perpetual motion machine out of them.

--
TimC
Remember, we're using the Internet, not Grammar! --Kibo

[TimC[_2_]]

On 2011-05-21, John Henderson (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Travis wrote:
>
>> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
>> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
>> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
>> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
>> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>
> Kool-Stop makes a special pad compound for wet weather - the
> Kool-Stop Salmon range. Sheldon Brown was a vocal advocate, and
> for dry weather use as well:
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html
>
> I've used them for years on our rim-brake bikes, and can vouch
> for their wet performance. If they don't grip, nothing will.

I fit them on my then-newish roadbike after hearing good reports out
of them. A few days into this, a taxi did a U-turn in front of me. I
grabbed a load of front brake, and almost did a head over handlebars.
The old brakes certainly didn't have that much grip in the dry!

(new bikes and brakes are always good. I was grabbing too much brake
yesterday just coming to a gentle stop at traffic lights on my new
roady)

> At least at one stage, Kool-Stop also made a red pad. These are
> not the same compound. Simply put, the Salmon pads contain the
> magic ingredient: rust.
>
> They can be found occasionally in Australian LBSs.

But as always, far more effective, predictable, cheaper and quicker to
buy them from overseas. Go figure.

--
TimC
Yip yip yip yip yap yap yip *BANG* --- NO TERRIER
-- JoeB in the Scary Devil Monastery

[Rob]

On 21/05/2011 3:39 PM, Gettamulla Tupya wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2011 22:39:18 -0700 (PDT), > wrote:
>
>> So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
>> the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
>> I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
>> pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
>> from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>
> Besser block and some rope...
>

yeah, its coming to that, you can't get good leather soles on boots
nowadays.

[terryc]

TimC wrote:

> Is it possible that it's a cheap supermarket class mountain bike with
> steel wheels?
>
> Steel wheels simply will not ever stop in the rain.

That is simply not true. There is a small window of opportunity to stop
between the rims going red hot and flash boiling dry the water and the
tyres and tubes exploding from heat fatigue.

> You can make a
> perpetual motion machine out of them.

Only on a loaded touring bike coming down from Dingo Gate to Moonan
Flat. Thank goodness for shoe leather.

[Travis]

On May 22, 8:51*am, TimC -spam-accepted-
here.org> wrote:
> On 2011-05-20, Travis (aka Bruce)
> * was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> > So it's reasonable to expect that your brakes won't work as well when
> > the rim has been lubricated with water compared to dry conditions, but
> > I was just wondering if there is such a thing as a "wet weather" brake
> > pad which one could swap in over the winter months? Something made
> > from a special material perhaps which grips a wet rim a bit better.
>
> > My road bike's brakes aren't fantastic when it is wet, but the
> > mountain bike's breaks are simply atrocious. It's your basic
> > cantilever design and they're horrible.
>
> Is it possible that it's a cheap supermarket class mountain bike with
> steel wheels?
>
> Steel wheels simply will not ever stop in the rain. *You can make a
> perpetual motion machine out of them.
>
> --
> TimC
> Remember, we're using the Internet, not Grammar! --Kibo

They are alloy wheels at least. I suspect the pads just haven't aged
well. I'm seeing if I can find compatible pads on eBay or somewhere.

Travis