quote of the day

[Ben Trovato]

"From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
salami in ridiculous races.”
- Ettore Torri

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-says-coni-boss

[atriage[_6_]]

On 21/11/2011 17:28, Ben Trovato wrote:
> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
> salami in ridiculous races.”
> - Ettore Torri
>

Yeah I thought that was excellent too. I hope I die before I get old...oh no
wait a minute I haven't.


--

[Jim Feeley]

Ben Trovato > wrote:

> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
> salami in ridiculous races.¡
> - Ettore Torri
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-says-coni
-boss

Oh man. Who here in Northern California remembers Eddy C's salami races?
IIRC, several salamis for 1st place, several-1 for 2nd, several-2 for 3rd...

Jim
--
Jim
Jim Feeley
POV Media

[Steve Freides[_2_]]

Ben Trovato wrote:
> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
> salami in ridiculous races.”
> - Ettore Torri
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-says-coni-boss

The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour this
year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? I can
understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a diuretic
to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself an unfair
advantage. But for endurance cycling? If a rider wants to take a
diuretic, why not just let him?

-S-

[Phil H]

On Nov 21, 11:30*am, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
> Ben Trovato wrote:
> > "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
> > salami in ridiculous races.”
> > - Ettore Torri
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-say...
>
> The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour this
> year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? *I can
> understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a diuretic
> to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself an unfair
> advantage. *But for endurance cycling? *If a rider wants to take a
> diuretic, why not just let him?
>
> -S-

Answer this riddle. If hemo count is a function of the number of red
blood cells per unit volume of blood, what does being slightly
dehydrated do for you?
Phil H

[Fredmaster of Brainerd]

On Nov 21, 11:30*am, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
> Ben Trovato wrote:
> > "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win a
> > salami in ridiculous races.”
> > - Ettore Torri
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-say...
>
> The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour this
> year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? *I can
> understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a diuretic
> to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself an unfair
> advantage. *But for endurance cycling? *If a rider wants to take a
> diuretic, why not just let him?

Because they're used (AFAICT) in an attempt to flush or
dilute an incriminating substance that is performance
enhancing, or they're a masking agent, obscuring a potential
positive for another substance that is a PED. There are
several such things, for example cold meds (pseudoephedrine)
have never been on the banned list because they enhance
your performance, but because they can be confused with
and thus mask some true PEDs.

I can't really think of a legitimate reason that a GT rider would
need to use a diuretic. (Kidney stones? Please.)

Fredmaster Ben

[Simply Fred]

atriage wrote:
> Yeah I thought that was excellent too. I hope I die before I get
> old...oh no wait a minute I haven't.

Its never to late to die.

[Steve Freides[_2_]]

Phil H wrote:
> On Nov 21, 11:30 am, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
>> Ben Trovato wrote:
>>> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win
>>> a salami in ridiculous races.”
>>> - Ettore Torri
>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-say...
>>
>> The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour
>> this year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? I can
>> understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a
>> diuretic to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself
>> an unfair advantage. But for endurance cycling? If a rider wants to
>> take a diuretic, why not just let him?
>>
>> -S-
>
> Answer this riddle. If hemo count is a function of the number of red
> blood cells per unit volume of blood, what does being slightly
> dehydrated do for you?
> Phil H

But it doesn't give you more red blood cells, just less water for the
same amount of them. I can't see how that would help performance.

-S-

[Jim Feeley]

"Steve Freides" > wrote:

> Phil H wrote:
>> On Nov 21, 11:30 am, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
>>> Ben Trovato wrote:
>>>> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win
>>>> a salami in ridiculous races.”
>>>> - Ettore Torri
>>>
>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-say...
>>>
>>> The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour
>>> this year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? I can
>>> understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a
>>> diuretic to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself
>>> an unfair advantage. But for endurance cycling? If a rider wants to
>>> take a diuretic, why not just let him?
>>>
>>> -S-
>>
>> Answer this riddle. If hemo count is a function of the number of red
>> blood cells per unit volume of blood, what does being slightly
>> dehydrated do for you?
>> Phil H
>
> But it doesn't give you more red blood cells, just less water for the
> same amount of them. I can't see how that would help performance.
>
> -S-

The general idea is that diuretics increase urine flow, so doping metabolites
are diluted. The hoped for benefit for dopers:

-Substances with an established WADA threshold such as salbutamol and ephedrine
will be diluted to levels below the threshold.

-Metabolites of some other substances will be diluted to levels below that some
labs will detect.

So the hope of dopers is that diuretics will function as masking agents.

Or so it's been explained to me.

Jim
--
Jim
Jim Feeley
POV Media

[Phil H]

On Nov 21, 6:47*pm, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
> Phil H wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 11:30 am, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
> >> Ben Trovato wrote:
> >>> "From lawyers to manual labor workers, they do anything just to win
> >>> a salami in ridiculous races.”
> >>> - Ettore Torri
>
> >>>http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping-in-cycling-greatly-reduced-say....
>
> >> The article mentions the one positive test result in a grand tour
> >> this year as having been for a diuretic - why ban diuretics? I can
> >> understand a ban on them in weight-class sports - if you use a
> >> diuretic to qualify for a lower weight class, you've given yourself
> >> an unfair advantage. But for endurance cycling? If a rider wants to
> >> take a diuretic, why not just let him?
>
> >> -S-
>
> > Answer this riddle. If hemo count is a function of the number of red
> > blood cells per unit volume of blood, what does being slightly
> > dehydrated do for you?
> > Phil H
>
> But it doesn't give you more red blood cells, just less water for the
> same amount of them. *I can't see how that would help performance.
>
> -S-- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The benefit of more red blood cells is increased count per unit
volume. That is, potentially more oxygen transport per unit flow. The
riddle is, what is the difference between a high count per unit volume
due to reduced blood volume and a high count due to more red cell
production?
Phil H