Re: Taiwanese recumbents

[Randy Schulman]

Joshua Goldberg wrote:
> Nice to see China Mascot is alive and well. They are quite affordable in
> the under 10 unit class and a few Big Name Bent companies have brought
> them into the USA (to sell as their own), but the deal killer was the
> transportation costs are too high. One Texas based company paid more on
> shipping than for 2 bents and I guess that made them think twice about
> importing anymore. To get these bents to go mainstream you'd need to buy
> in lots of 50 plus to balance out the shipping costs. The 3 PB Models
> they had before were NOT lightweight bents either...adding to the
> shipping cost. Get the bent down in weight and buy in lots of 20-50 and
> you'd have a good bent to slap your company name on....who'd know?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Ken Kobayashi" > wrote in message news:AE-
> 1BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@l p.airnews.netnews:AE1-
> BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@lp .airnews.net...
> >
> > I just noticed that China Mascot Products, a Taiwanese 'bent
> > manufacturer, announced some new models:
> >
> > http://www.recumbent.com.tw/bents/model.htmhttp://www.recumbent.-
> > com.tw/bents/model.htm
> >
> > The lowracer and the Hase Pino clone are new. The other models are
> > already available in Japan. The Pockey7 is going for 60,000 yen ($500)
> > and the TSUNAMI is sold as a frame kit for 50,000 ($420).
> >
> > I'm sorry I don't know about the availability in the US. Does
> > anyone know?
> >
> > Ken Kobayashi http://solarwww.mtk.nao-
> > .ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/-
> > personal/

China Mascot fans,

I've just started a company, "ActionBent Recumbents", importing China
Mascot bikes to the US; they're here now; See www.ActionBent.com.[/url]
I brought in an initial shipment of 50 bikes. I'm in Redmond Washington.
China Mascot only OEM's; you've GOT to "slap your own name" on'em! My
URL is ]www.ActionBent.com. I've currently got three models; One is
their 'Tsunami', renamed the "Tidal Wave' (couldn't use the same name,
so I just translated it.)

The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
think tiny wheels are deadly. The other major upgrade is upgrading from
21-speed SRAM 3.0 components to 24-speed SRAM 7.0, a very significant
improvement.

The third is the "Hurricane" with under-seat steering like the Tidal
Wave, but with SRAM 7.0 twist-shifters; Gets you a cool USS bike for way
cheaper than the Tidal Wave. (not even yet posted on the site )

My site has just gone up in the last couple of days, and I've got two
EBAY ads in as well.

I was too chicken to import their 'low-racers', and as for the 'Pocky
Seven', I thought Americans wouldn't go for a recumbent with just seven
speeds, even though I pretty much leave my front derailler in the
middle all the time ; would like feedback on this; I'm strictly a
COMFORT freek!






--
Randy Schulman
Founder and Big Wheel,
ActionBent Recumbents
17930 NE 127th St
Redmond,Wa, 98052
Fax 425-650-4037

- - - -
Derek
Burley Canto, modified

>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Joshua Goldberg]

Weird seeing my post from last year (below).
Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
I looked at the www.actionbent.com website and was impressed with an OSS @
only $645.00....this should sell well. Bent riders can be a tough group to
please, but $645.00 will soften up even the most critical in our group.
Didn't China Mascot release a Titanium Frame a few months ago?

Oh and I almost forgot "Best of Luck" in your bent venture.
---------------------------------------
"Randy Schulman" > wrote in message
...
> Joshua Goldberg wrote:
> > Nice to see China Mascot is alive and well. They are quite affordable
in
> > the under 10 unit class and a few Big Name Bent companies have brought
> > them into the USA (to sell as their own), but the deal killer was the
> > transportation costs are too high. One Texas based company paid more
on
> > shipping than for 2 bents and I guess that made them think twice about
> > importing anymore. To get these bents to go mainstream you'd need to
buy
> > in lots of 50 plus to balance out the shipping costs. The 3 PB Models
> > they had before were NOT lightweight bents either...adding to the
> > shipping cost. Get the bent down in weight and buy in lots of 20-50
and
> > you'd have a good bent to slap your company name on....who'd know?
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Ken Kobayashi" > wrote in message
news:AE-
> >
1BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@l p.airnews.netnews:AE1-
> > BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@lp .airnews.net...
> > >
> > > I just noticed that China Mascot Products, a Taiwanese 'bent
> > > manufacturer, announced some new models:
> > >
> > >
http://www.recumbent.com.tw/bents/model.htmhttp://www.recumbent.-
> > > com.tw/bents/model.htm
> > >
> > > The lowracer and the Hase Pino clone are new. The other models are
> > > already available in Japan. The Pockey7 is going for 60,000 yen
($500)
> > > and the TSUNAMI is sold as a frame kit for 50,000 ($420).
> > >
> > > I'm sorry I don't know about the availability in the US. Does
> > > anyone know?
> > >
> > > Ken Kobayashi http://solarwww.mtk.nao-
> > > .ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/-
> > > personal/
>
> China Mascot fans,
>
> I've just started a company, "ActionBent Recumbents", importing China
> Mascot bikes to the US; they're here now; See www.ActionBent.com.[/url]
> I brought in an initial shipment of 50 bikes. I'm in Redmond Washington.
> China Mascot only OEM's; you've GOT to "slap your own name" on'em! My
> URL is ]www.ActionBent.com. I've currently got three models; One is
> their 'Tsunami', renamed the "Tidal Wave' (couldn't use the same name,
> so I just translated it.)
>
> The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> think tiny wheels are deadly. The other major upgrade is upgrading from
> 21-speed SRAM 3.0 components to 24-speed SRAM 7.0, a very significant
> improvement.
>
> The third is the "Hurricane" with under-seat steering like the Tidal
> Wave, but with SRAM 7.0 twist-shifters; Gets you a cool USS bike for way
> cheaper than the Tidal Wave. (not even yet posted on the site )
>
> My site has just gone up in the last couple of days, and I've got two
> EBAY ads in as well.
>
> I was too chicken to import their 'low-racers', and as for the 'Pocky
> Seven', I thought Americans wouldn't go for a recumbent with just seven
> speeds, even though I pretty much leave my front derailler in the
> middle all the time ; would like feedback on this; I'm strictly a
> COMFORT freek!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Randy Schulman
> Founder and Big Wheel,
> ActionBent Recumbents
> 17930 NE 127th St
> Redmond,Wa, 98052
> Fax 425-650-4037
>
> - - - -
> Derek
> Burley Canto, modified
>
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Joshua Goldberg]

Weird seeing my post from last year (below).
Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
I looked at the www.actionbent.com website and was impressed with an OSS @
only $645.00....this should sell well. Bent riders can be a tough group to
please, but $645.00 will soften up even the most critical in our group.
Didn't China Mascot release a Titanium Frame a few months ago?

Oh and I almost forgot "Best of Luck" in your bent venture.
---------------------------------------
"Randy Schulman" > wrote in message
...
> Joshua Goldberg wrote:
> > Nice to see China Mascot is alive and well. They are quite affordable
in
> > the under 10 unit class and a few Big Name Bent companies have brought
> > them into the USA (to sell as their own), but the deal killer was the
> > transportation costs are too high. One Texas based company paid more
on
> > shipping than for 2 bents and I guess that made them think twice about
> > importing anymore. To get these bents to go mainstream you'd need to
buy
> > in lots of 50 plus to balance out the shipping costs. The 3 PB Models
> > they had before were NOT lightweight bents either...adding to the
> > shipping cost. Get the bent down in weight and buy in lots of 20-50
and
> > you'd have a good bent to slap your company name on....who'd know?
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Ken Kobayashi" > wrote in message
news:AE-
> >
1BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@l p.airnews.netnews:AE1-
> > BC469A2254495.5439E32BB483CAA2.DEA6DD0E9E0C8786@lp .airnews.net...
> > >
> > > I just noticed that China Mascot Products, a Taiwanese 'bent
> > > manufacturer, announced some new models:
> > >
> > >
http://www.recumbent.com.tw/bents/model.htmhttp://www.recumbent.-
> > > com.tw/bents/model.htm
> > >
> > > The lowracer and the Hase Pino clone are new. The other models are
> > > already available in Japan. The Pockey7 is going for 60,000 yen
($500)
> > > and the TSUNAMI is sold as a frame kit for 50,000 ($420).
> > >
> > > I'm sorry I don't know about the availability in the US. Does
> > > anyone know?
> > >
> > > Ken Kobayashi http://solarwww.mtk.nao-
> > > .ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/-
> > > personal/
>
> China Mascot fans,
>
> I've just started a company, "ActionBent Recumbents", importing China
> Mascot bikes to the US; they're here now; See www.ActionBent.com.[/url]
> I brought in an initial shipment of 50 bikes. I'm in Redmond Washington.
> China Mascot only OEM's; you've GOT to "slap your own name" on'em! My
> URL is ]www.ActionBent.com. I've currently got three models; One is
> their 'Tsunami', renamed the "Tidal Wave' (couldn't use the same name,
> so I just translated it.)
>
> The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> think tiny wheels are deadly. The other major upgrade is upgrading from
> 21-speed SRAM 3.0 components to 24-speed SRAM 7.0, a very significant
> improvement.
>
> The third is the "Hurricane" with under-seat steering like the Tidal
> Wave, but with SRAM 7.0 twist-shifters; Gets you a cool USS bike for way
> cheaper than the Tidal Wave. (not even yet posted on the site )
>
> My site has just gone up in the last couple of days, and I've got two
> EBAY ads in as well.
>
> I was too chicken to import their 'low-racers', and as for the 'Pocky
> Seven', I thought Americans wouldn't go for a recumbent with just seven
> speeds, even though I pretty much leave my front derailler in the
> middle all the time ; would like feedback on this; I'm strictly a
> COMFORT freek!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Randy Schulman
> Founder and Big Wheel,
> ActionBent Recumbents
> 17930 NE 127th St
> Redmond,Wa, 98052
> Fax 425-650-4037
>
> - - - -
> Derek
> Burley Canto, modified
>
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Tom Sherman]

Randy Schulman wrote:
> ...
> The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> think tiny wheels are deadly....

You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
wheel lowracers owners.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

[Tom Sherman]

Randy Schulman wrote:
> ...
> The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> think tiny wheels are deadly....

You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
wheel lowracers owners.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

[harv]

Yeah, all hundred and six of them. <g>
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Randy Schulman wrote:
> > ...
> > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > think tiny wheels are deadly....
>
> You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> wheel lowracers owners.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

[harv]

Yeah, all hundred and six of them. <g>
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Randy Schulman wrote:
> > ...
> > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > think tiny wheels are deadly....
>
> You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> wheel lowracers owners.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

[rorschandt]

Ken Kobayashi > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:44:15 -0400, "Joshua Goldberg"
> > wrote:
>>Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
>>your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
>>Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
>
> Yeah I thought that too. I don't think "Typhoon" is taken.

Schwinn. If that matters now. "Storm" is fine, too. How about "Monsoon"?
"Deluge"? or "Pouring Down Like a Cow ****ing on a Flat Rock"? Sort of long
I guess...

Rorschandt
--
<A ]">

[rorschandt]

Ken Kobayashi > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:44:15 -0400, "Joshua Goldberg"
> > wrote:
>>Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
>>your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
>>Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
>
> Yeah I thought that too. I don't think "Typhoon" is taken.

Schwinn. If that matters now. "Storm" is fine, too. How about "Monsoon"?
"Deluge"? or "Pouring Down Like a Cow ****ing on a Flat Rock"? Sort of long
I guess...

Rorschandt
--
<A ]">

[Joshua Goldberg]

**************************************
A good one in place of Hurricane might be the "SLASHER" a) because it
contains my middle name re: Asher (not Slash) and b) because it implies a
cutting action as in cutting through the wind. (not bad eh)
***************************************
"rorschandt" > wrote in message
30...
> Ken Kobayashi > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:44:15 -0400, "Joshua Goldberg"
> > > wrote:
> >>Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
> >>your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
> >>Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
> >
> > Yeah I thought that too. I don't think "Typhoon" is taken.
>
> Schwinn. If that matters now. "Storm" is fine, too. How about "Monsoon"?
> "Deluge"? or "Pouring Down Like a Cow ****ing on a Flat Rock"? Sort of
long
> I guess...
>
> Rorschandt
> --
> <A ]">

[Joshua Goldberg]

**************************************
A good one in place of Hurricane might be the "SLASHER" a) because it
contains my middle name re: Asher (not Slash) and b) because it implies a
cutting action as in cutting through the wind. (not bad eh)
***************************************
"rorschandt" > wrote in message
30...
> Ken Kobayashi > wrote in
> :
>
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:44:15 -0400, "Joshua Goldberg"
> > > wrote:
> >>Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
> >>your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
> >>Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
> >
> > Yeah I thought that too. I don't think "Typhoon" is taken.
>
> Schwinn. If that matters now. "Storm" is fine, too. How about "Monsoon"?
> "Deluge"? or "Pouring Down Like a Cow ****ing on a Flat Rock"? Sort of
long
> I guess...
>
> Rorschandt
> --
> <A ]">

[rorschandt]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in
:

> **************************************
> A good one in place of Hurricane might be the "SLASHER" a) because it
> contains my middle name re: Asher (not Slash) and b) because it
> implies a cutting action as in cutting through the wind. (not bad eh)
> ***************************************
>
Cutting wind, eh? How about the "Fart". Fast,usually silent, and sometimes
deadly. When the new models,come out, you can advertise last year's models
as The Old Farts! Or it could be an acronym like, Father of All Recumbent
(some word beginning with T).


--Rorschandt
<A ]">

[rorschandt]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in
:

> **************************************
> A good one in place of Hurricane might be the "SLASHER" a) because it
> contains my middle name re: Asher (not Slash) and b) because it
> implies a cutting action as in cutting through the wind. (not bad eh)
> ***************************************
>
Cutting wind, eh? How about the "Fart". Fast,usually silent, and sometimes
deadly. When the new models,come out, you can advertise last year's models
as The Old Farts! Or it could be an acronym like, Father of All Recumbent
(some word beginning with T).


--Rorschandt
<A ]">

[Tom Sherman]

harv wrote:
>
> Yeah, all hundred and six of them. <g>

I doubt the combined production of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm wheel size
lowracers is greater than 50. There are 18 Sunsets known to exist [1].
Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
wheel Ross Festine were made?

[1] I believe that over half of them are in Illinois.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Sherman]

harv wrote:
>
> Yeah, all hundred and six of them. <g>

I doubt the combined production of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm wheel size
lowracers is greater than 50. There are 18 Sunsets known to exist [1].
Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
wheel Ross Festine were made?

[1] I believe that over half of them are in Illinois.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Thompson]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in message
...
> Weird seeing my post from last year (below).
> Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
> your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
> Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
> I looked at the www.actionbent.com website and was impressed with an OSS @
> only $645.00....this should sell well. Bent riders can be a tough group to
> please, but $645.00 will soften up even the most critical in our group.
> Didn't China Mascot release a Titanium Frame a few months ago?
>
> Oh and I almost forgot "Best of Luck" in your bent venture.
> ---------------------------------------
>I'm probably one of Randy's first customers. My Tidal Wave will jopin the
TE in the stable sometime early next week. SO far, Randy has been pleasant
and responsive to my questions, not to mention offering one of the best
deals on a SWB USS in the USA right now.

I'll post about the bike when it arrives and I get some seat time logged.
One of the reasons I bought it was its utter difference from my Tour Easy
and the potential of having a lightweight mid-hi BB climbing machine.

Tom Thompson

[Tom Thompson]

"Joshua Goldberg" > wrote in message
...
> Weird seeing my post from last year (below).
> Note: it might get a tad confusing using the Name "Hurricane" for one of
> your China Mascot bents. Not sure about how legal it is either. Re:
> Challenge Recumbents makes a "Hurricane" model as well.
> I looked at the www.actionbent.com website and was impressed with an OSS @
> only $645.00....this should sell well. Bent riders can be a tough group to
> please, but $645.00 will soften up even the most critical in our group.
> Didn't China Mascot release a Titanium Frame a few months ago?
>
> Oh and I almost forgot "Best of Luck" in your bent venture.
> ---------------------------------------
>I'm probably one of Randy's first customers. My Tidal Wave will jopin the
TE in the stable sometime early next week. SO far, Randy has been pleasant
and responsive to my questions, not to mention offering one of the best
deals on a SWB USS in the USA right now.

I'll post about the bike when it arrives and I get some seat time logged.
One of the reasons I bought it was its utter difference from my Tour Easy
and the potential of having a lightweight mid-hi BB climbing machine.

Tom Thompson

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Randy Schulman wrote:
> > ...
> > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > think tiny wheels are deadly....
>
> You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> wheel lowracers owners.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.

My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
rear wheel and full suspension.

The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
anymore.

Zach Kaplan

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Randy Schulman wrote:
> > ...
> > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > think tiny wheels are deadly....
>
> You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> wheel lowracers owners.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)

I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.

My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
rear wheel and full suspension.

The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
anymore.

Zach Kaplan

[Tom Sherman]

Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> > Randy Schulman wrote:
> > > ...
> > > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > > think tiny wheels are deadly....
> >
> > You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> > wheel lowracers owners.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> > Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)
>
> I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
> that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
> is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
> obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
> on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
> better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
> resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
> looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
> really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
> compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
> the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
> hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.
>
> My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
> transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
> mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
> transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
> added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
> urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
> Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
> rear wheel and full suspension.
>
> The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
> and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
> anymore.

Zach,

The comment about alienating small wheel lowracer owners was tongue in
cheek - our numbers are so small as to be of little concern to the
importer of bikes from what is presumably a high-volume factory.

Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?

Looks are subjective as I find the Aero a merely acceptable looking bike
except for the "tweener" handlebars, which I would replace with narrow
T-bars for aesthetic reasons if I bought one. I have also observed many
women reacting to the Sunset in a manner similar to the way they would
to a cute puppy or kitten which I do not see happening with an Aero.

I do transport my Sunset inside a small hatchback on a regular basis and
not having to do any assembly/disassembly is a positive attribute, as I
find assembling and disassembling bikes on a regular basis to be a major
PITA.

Small wheels have a psychological advantage as most upright riders as
consternated to find a bike with "kiddie wheels" going faster than they
are. :)

Finally, a lowracer will be more responsive than a highracer due to the
shorter vertical moment arm between the tire contact patches and the
center of gravity of the combined bike/rider. Whether or not this is an
advantage will depend entirely on rider preference.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Sherman]

Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> > Randy Schulman wrote:
> > > ...
> > > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > > think tiny wheels are deadly....
> >
> > You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> > wheel lowracers owners.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> > Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)
>
> I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
> that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
> is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
> obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
> on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
> better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
> resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
> looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
> really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
> compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
> the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
> hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.
>
> My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
> transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
> mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
> transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
> added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
> urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
> Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
> rear wheel and full suspension.
>
> The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
> and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
> anymore.

Zach,

The comment about alienating small wheel lowracer owners was tongue in
cheek - our numbers are so small as to be of little concern to the
importer of bikes from what is presumably a high-volume factory.

Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?

Looks are subjective as I find the Aero a merely acceptable looking bike
except for the "tweener" handlebars, which I would replace with narrow
T-bars for aesthetic reasons if I bought one. I have also observed many
women reacting to the Sunset in a manner similar to the way they would
to a cute puppy or kitten which I do not see happening with an Aero.

I do transport my Sunset inside a small hatchback on a regular basis and
not having to do any assembly/disassembly is a positive attribute, as I
find assembling and disassembling bikes on a regular basis to be a major
PITA.

Small wheels have a psychological advantage as most upright riders as
consternated to find a bike with "kiddie wheels" going faster than they
are. :)

Finally, a lowracer will be more responsive than a highracer due to the
shorter vertical moment arm between the tire contact patches and the
center of gravity of the combined bike/rider. Whether or not this is an
advantage will depend entirely on rider preference.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Dave Larrington]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
> wheel Ross Festine were made?

Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
> wheel Ross Festine were made?

Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[John Olson]

Dave Larrington wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
>> wheel Ross Festine were made?
>
> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz
> 305 is a rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to
> find.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========

I rode at least one of them, and vaguely recall seeing another being
packaged for a customer. IIRC, it was just the last few that had 305's.

Nobody said they they had good tyres :-)

Cheers

John





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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[John Olson]

Dave Larrington wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
>> wheel Ross Festine were made?
>
> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz
> 305 is a rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to
> find.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========

I rode at least one of them, and vaguely recall seeing another being
packaged for a customer. IIRC, it was just the last few that had 305's.

Nobody said they they had good tyres :-)

Cheers

John





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.495 / Virus Database: 294 - Release Date: 30/06/03

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> > > Randy Schulman wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > > > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > > > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > > > think tiny wheels are deadly....
> > >
> > > You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> > > wheel lowracers owners.
> > >
> > > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> > > Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)
> >
> > I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
> > that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
> > is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
> > obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
> > on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
> > better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
> > resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
> > looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
> > really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
> > compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
> > the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
> > hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.
> >
> > My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
> > transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
> > mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
> > transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
> > added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
> > urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
> > Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
> > rear wheel and full suspension.
> >
> > The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
> > and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
> > anymore.
>
> Zach,
>
> The comment about alienating small wheel lowracer owners was tongue in
> cheek - our numbers are so small as to be of little concern to the
> importer of bikes from what is presumably a high-volume factory.
>
> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?

Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.

> Looks are subjective as I find the Aero a merely acceptable looking bike

Correct, that is why I wrote "all IMHO of course" above.

> except for the "tweener" handlebars, which I would replace with narrow
> T-bars for aesthetic reasons if I bought one. I have also observed many
> women reacting to the Sunset in a manner similar to the way they would
> to a cute puppy or kitten which I do not see happening with an Aero.

I actually installed Bacchetta handlebars and stem on my Sunset in
January 2003 because I find them more comfortable, more aerodynamic,
they allow leaning forward when climbing or hitting large bumps, make
it easier to get on and off the bike and don't have any tiller effect.
I think the looks of my Sunset improved with the Bacchetta bars and
stem though I still think my Sunset looks awkward.

I don't ride recumbents to get attention from women but for what it is
worth the Aero has generated much more attention and positive feedback
on the club rides I've taken it on than the Sunset. I've had numerous
women (and men) approach me about the Aero and complement me on it. It
seems upon seeing it for the first time women like to touch the filter
foam on the M5 seat. I've seen this happen numerous times, sort of
like petting the cute puppy. Also being more up at their height now
and able to climb at their speed I find I'm talking with road bike
riding club members much more now. There was one woman who hardly ever
talked to me or acknowledged me in the past and I recall she would
always outclimb me on steep climbs when I rode the Sunset. After her
initial round of complements about the Aero I've now ridden and talked
with her at length on many rides and I have to back off on the climbs
so I don't leave her behind.

> I do transport my Sunset inside a small hatchback on a regular basis and
> not having to do any assembly/disassembly is a positive attribute, as I
> find assembling and disassembling bikes on a regular basis to be a major
> PITA.

As I pointed out above that is an advantage of a compact lowracer such
as the Sunset over a large wheeled SWB such as the Aero. However if
someone wanted to carry the bike on a roof rack (I wouldn't put any
expensive bike on one for any significant distance) the Aero does have
the advantage of a conventional double blade fork that interfaces with
conventional roof racks.

> Small wheels have a psychological advantage as most upright riders as
> consternated to find a bike with "kiddie wheels" going faster than they
> are. :)

True but I find it much more harmonious to blend in with the roadies
more and be accepted more as one of them on a larger wheeled bike
climbing at their speeds. I used to bring a lot of esoteric machinery
on club rides such as trikes (often with Rohloff hubs), Sunsets and
Festinas. There was always a sense of novelty with the small wheels
and people didn't expect them to be as fast as they were, especially
the small wheels fitted with fat tyres. However I was always on the
fringe and often left behind on the climbs and there are a lot of
long, steep climbs in my area. With the Aero I interface with the
upright club riders in a much more harmonious way yet am still
considered to be unique due to the different position I'm riding in.
Many people have expressed to me that they much prefer riding with me
when I'm on the Aero than a low racer as I'm easier to talk to being
closer to their height, can give them somewhat of a draft and am
easier for them to see. I have pulled some pacelines on the Aero and
have received appreciation for that. This wouldn't have ever been able
to happen on the Sunset unless they were all riding low recumbents
too.

> Finally, a lowracer will be more responsive than a highracer due to the
> shorter vertical moment arm between the tire contact patches and the
> center of gravity of the combined bike/rider. Whether or not this is an
> advantage will depend entirely on rider preference.

I actually don't notice much difference in that respect though I know
in theory you are correct. For me both bikes are adequately responsive
and adequately stable though I do find the Aero has the edge with high
speed stability, particularly on the rough roads we have around here.
I'd rather hit a bump at 70 km/h with the 559mm front wheel of the
Aero than with the 305mm front wheel of the Sunset.

Zach Kaplan

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Zach Kaplan Cycles wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> > > Randy Schulman wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > The other two are versions of what I call "The Hurricane" (liked the
> > > > sea-weather theme) ; One is an above-steering version of their PB960
> > > > with two major upgrades: A 20" front wheel instead of their 16" wheel; I
> > > > think tiny wheels are deadly....
> > >
> > > You have just alienated the entire ownership of ISO 305-mm/ISO 406-mm
> > > wheel lowracers owners.
> > >
> > > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
> > > Red Sunset and Blue Dragonflyer :)
> >
> > I own a couple 305/406 wheeled low racers and don't feel alienated by
> > that statement. However just because one owns a Sunset doesn't mean it
> > is their prefered ride. My Sunset is collecting dust and I consider it
> > obsolete because my Bacchetta Aero with its dual 559 wheels is faster
> > on level ground, faster up hill, faster down hill, smoother riding,
> > better handling at high speeds, safer in traffic, lower rolling
> > resistance, lighter, has a more efficient drivetrain and is better
> > looking (all IMHO of course). As far as the wheel diameters go I'm
> > really becoming a believer in bigger is better. The small wheeled
> > compact lowracers like the Sunset only seem to have an advantage if
> > the rider is short or is trying to transport it inside a small
> > hatchback or a suitcase on an airplane.
> >
> > My Sunset does also have an edge over my Aero for practical
> > transportation in terms of having a high capacity rear rack,
> > mudguards, fat tyre clearances and disc brakes. However for practical
> > transportation in the conditions where I'd need mudguards I prefer the
> > added safety and stability of a trike and for transportation in dense
> > urban areas I prefer the practicality and higher ride height of my HP
> > Velotechnik Street Machine GT which has a 406mm front wheel, 559mm
> > rear wheel and full suspension.
> >
> > The Sunset is still a very high quality bike with many nice features
> > and was ahead of its time but I just don't see myself riding it much
> > anymore.
>
> Zach,
>
> The comment about alienating small wheel lowracer owners was tongue in
> cheek - our numbers are so small as to be of little concern to the
> importer of bikes from what is presumably a high-volume factory.
>
> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?

Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.

> Looks are subjective as I find the Aero a merely acceptable looking bike

Correct, that is why I wrote "all IMHO of course" above.

> except for the "tweener" handlebars, which I would replace with narrow
> T-bars for aesthetic reasons if I bought one. I have also observed many
> women reacting to the Sunset in a manner similar to the way they would
> to a cute puppy or kitten which I do not see happening with an Aero.

I actually installed Bacchetta handlebars and stem on my Sunset in
January 2003 because I find them more comfortable, more aerodynamic,
they allow leaning forward when climbing or hitting large bumps, make
it easier to get on and off the bike and don't have any tiller effect.
I think the looks of my Sunset improved with the Bacchetta bars and
stem though I still think my Sunset looks awkward.

I don't ride recumbents to get attention from women but for what it is
worth the Aero has generated much more attention and positive feedback
on the club rides I've taken it on than the Sunset. I've had numerous
women (and men) approach me about the Aero and complement me on it. It
seems upon seeing it for the first time women like to touch the filter
foam on the M5 seat. I've seen this happen numerous times, sort of
like petting the cute puppy. Also being more up at their height now
and able to climb at their speed I find I'm talking with road bike
riding club members much more now. There was one woman who hardly ever
talked to me or acknowledged me in the past and I recall she would
always outclimb me on steep climbs when I rode the Sunset. After her
initial round of complements about the Aero I've now ridden and talked
with her at length on many rides and I have to back off on the climbs
so I don't leave her behind.

> I do transport my Sunset inside a small hatchback on a regular basis and
> not having to do any assembly/disassembly is a positive attribute, as I
> find assembling and disassembling bikes on a regular basis to be a major
> PITA.

As I pointed out above that is an advantage of a compact lowracer such
as the Sunset over a large wheeled SWB such as the Aero. However if
someone wanted to carry the bike on a roof rack (I wouldn't put any
expensive bike on one for any significant distance) the Aero does have
the advantage of a conventional double blade fork that interfaces with
conventional roof racks.

> Small wheels have a psychological advantage as most upright riders as
> consternated to find a bike with "kiddie wheels" going faster than they
> are. :)

True but I find it much more harmonious to blend in with the roadies
more and be accepted more as one of them on a larger wheeled bike
climbing at their speeds. I used to bring a lot of esoteric machinery
on club rides such as trikes (often with Rohloff hubs), Sunsets and
Festinas. There was always a sense of novelty with the small wheels
and people didn't expect them to be as fast as they were, especially
the small wheels fitted with fat tyres. However I was always on the
fringe and often left behind on the climbs and there are a lot of
long, steep climbs in my area. With the Aero I interface with the
upright club riders in a much more harmonious way yet am still
considered to be unique due to the different position I'm riding in.
Many people have expressed to me that they much prefer riding with me
when I'm on the Aero than a low racer as I'm easier to talk to being
closer to their height, can give them somewhat of a draft and am
easier for them to see. I have pulled some pacelines on the Aero and
have received appreciation for that. This wouldn't have ever been able
to happen on the Sunset unless they were all riding low recumbents
too.

> Finally, a lowracer will be more responsive than a highracer due to the
> shorter vertical moment arm between the tire contact patches and the
> center of gravity of the combined bike/rider. Whether or not this is an
> advantage will depend entirely on rider preference.

I actually don't notice much difference in that respect though I know
in theory you are correct. For me both bikes are adequately responsive
and adequately stable though I do find the Aero has the edge with high
speed stability, particularly on the rough roads we have around here.
I'd rather hit a bump at 70 km/h with the 559mm front wheel of the
Aero than with the 305mm front wheel of the Sunset.

Zach Kaplan

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
> > wheel Ross Festine were made?
>
> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
> rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/

There were. Peter Ross brought a Festina with a 305mm front wheel and
reverse rake fork to the World HPV Championships at Interlaken,
Switzerland in 1999. I tried it out there as did many other people.
This was a model for riders who weren't tall enough for the 406mm
front wheel. I have no idea how many of these 305/406 Festinas were
produced. The tyre on the one I rode was a European brand called the
Schwalbe City Jet 54-305.

I think about a dozen Pharobike Lowfats were made in the first batch.
However someone got ahold of the remaining parts inventory from the
estate of Dan Duchaine and sold them on eBay a while back and I
believe there were some unassembled frames included so there may be
more Lowfats on the road now than the amount that Dan had actually
built up and shipped out.

Zach Kaplan

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
> > wheel Ross Festine were made?
>
> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
> rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/

There were. Peter Ross brought a Festina with a 305mm front wheel and
reverse rake fork to the World HPV Championships at Interlaken,
Switzerland in 1999. I tried it out there as did many other people.
This was a model for riders who weren't tall enough for the 406mm
front wheel. I have no idea how many of these 305/406 Festinas were
produced. The tyre on the one I rode was a European brand called the
Schwalbe City Jet 54-305.

I think about a dozen Pharobike Lowfats were made in the first batch.
However someone got ahold of the remaining parts inventory from the
estate of Dan Duchaine and sold them on eBay a while back and I
believe there were some unassembled frames included so there may be
more Lowfats on the road now than the amount that Dan had actually
built up and shipped out.

Zach Kaplan

[Steve Christensen]

>> Zach,

>> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
>> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
>> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?
>
>Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
>instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
>of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
>than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.

>Zach Kaplan


Zach,

I thought I remembered reading an article by you extolling the virtues of fat
tires on recumbents for their better handling characteristics. Given that you
are now using just about the most narrow tire in bentdom on your Aero, have you
changed your mind? Or is it that the Aero is a special purpose road bike that
needs narrow tires to live up to its potential?

Steve Christensen
Midland, MI

[Steve Christensen]

>> Zach,

>> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
>> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
>> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?
>
>Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
>instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
>of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
>than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.

>Zach Kaplan


Zach,

I thought I remembered reading an article by you extolling the virtues of fat
tires on recumbents for their better handling characteristics. Given that you
are now using just about the most narrow tire in bentdom on your Aero, have you
changed your mind? Or is it that the Aero is a special purpose road bike that
needs narrow tires to live up to its potential?

Steve Christensen
Midland, MI

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Steve Christensen > wrote in message >...
> >> Zach,
>
> >> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
> >> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
> >> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?
> >
> >Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
> >instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
> >of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
> >than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.
>
> >Zach Kaplan
>
>
> Zach,
>
> I thought I remembered reading an article by you extolling the virtues of fat
> tires on recumbents for their better handling characteristics. Given that you
> are now using just about the most narrow tire in bentdom on your Aero, have you
> changed your mind? Or is it that the Aero is a special purpose road bike that
> needs narrow tires to live up to its potential?
>
> Steve Christensen
> Midland, MI

Note I wrote above that I'm using 559mm wheels on my Aero rather than
the stock 571mm wheels in part so I can use the Schwalbe Stelvio
25-559 tyre which has an actual width of 27mm which is wide by road
bike standards. Most of the available 571mm tyres have actual widths
in the 20-23mm range. Also keep in mind because larger diameter tyres
don't go as deeply into potholes or see as much impact loading when
rolling over raised projection type road hazards they don't have to be
as wide as small diameter tyres for a given safety margin. Also note I
weigh only 63 kg and am not carrying heavy loads on my Aero. The
average recumbent rider weighs much more than me and I still don't
recommend narrow tyres for the average recumbent rider. I'm not the
average recumbent rider.

On my more utility oriented recumbents which have smaller diameter
wheels, at least in the front I use much wider tyres. I do use
Stelvios on some of my trikes as well for aerodynamic and weight
reasons as the trike wheels are lightly loaded and I also use them on
the lightly loaded front wheel of my Gold Rush for aerodynamic and
weight reasons and sometimes on the more heavily loaded rear wheel
also to decrease weight on the very hilly rides I do. Just because I
can get away with this doesn't mean most recumbent riders can and I
don't advocate such a narrow rear tyre on a Gold Rush (though the
narrow front tyre is acceptable for many much heavier riders as it is
still relatively lightly loaded). Really it comes down to just using
the right tool for the right application.

I do think the Aero which has a lot of wheel frontal area below the
rider's body needs relatively narrow tyres to live up to its
potential. Given that I've already had two rim side punctures in the
1452 kilometres I've ridden my Aero on our rough roads I wouldn't want
to go to anything narrower than the 25-559 Stelvios. I have now
switched from ultralight Michelin inner tubes to some hopefully more
durable Continental tubes. The latex inner tubes which Rich Pinto says
are especially pinch puncture resistant appear to no longer be made in
the appropriate diameter for the Aero.

Zach Kaplan

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Steve Christensen > wrote in message >...
> >> Zach,
>
> >> Did you decide to use ISO 559-mm wheels on your Aero for tire
> >> availability reasons, and do the brakes have enough adjustment to
> >> properly compensate for the 6 mm difference in wheel radius?
> >
> >Yes and yes. Also I can runn wider tyres with 559mm wheels. For
> >instance the 25-559 Schwalbe Stelvios I'm using have an actual width
> >of 27mm on the HED Jet wheels I'm using. That is a wider actual width
> >than any 571mm tyre, even the Terry Tellus ST that is labeled 28-571.
>
> >Zach Kaplan
>
>
> Zach,
>
> I thought I remembered reading an article by you extolling the virtues of fat
> tires on recumbents for their better handling characteristics. Given that you
> are now using just about the most narrow tire in bentdom on your Aero, have you
> changed your mind? Or is it that the Aero is a special purpose road bike that
> needs narrow tires to live up to its potential?
>
> Steve Christensen
> Midland, MI

Note I wrote above that I'm using 559mm wheels on my Aero rather than
the stock 571mm wheels in part so I can use the Schwalbe Stelvio
25-559 tyre which has an actual width of 27mm which is wide by road
bike standards. Most of the available 571mm tyres have actual widths
in the 20-23mm range. Also keep in mind because larger diameter tyres
don't go as deeply into potholes or see as much impact loading when
rolling over raised projection type road hazards they don't have to be
as wide as small diameter tyres for a given safety margin. Also note I
weigh only 63 kg and am not carrying heavy loads on my Aero. The
average recumbent rider weighs much more than me and I still don't
recommend narrow tyres for the average recumbent rider. I'm not the
average recumbent rider.

On my more utility oriented recumbents which have smaller diameter
wheels, at least in the front I use much wider tyres. I do use
Stelvios on some of my trikes as well for aerodynamic and weight
reasons as the trike wheels are lightly loaded and I also use them on
the lightly loaded front wheel of my Gold Rush for aerodynamic and
weight reasons and sometimes on the more heavily loaded rear wheel
also to decrease weight on the very hilly rides I do. Just because I
can get away with this doesn't mean most recumbent riders can and I
don't advocate such a narrow rear tyre on a Gold Rush (though the
narrow front tyre is acceptable for many much heavier riders as it is
still relatively lightly loaded). Really it comes down to just using
the right tool for the right application.

I do think the Aero which has a lot of wheel frontal area below the
rider's body needs relatively narrow tyres to live up to its
potential. Given that I've already had two rim side punctures in the
1452 kilometres I've ridden my Aero on our rough roads I wouldn't want
to go to anything narrower than the 25-559 Stelvios. I have now
switched from ultralight Michelin inner tubes to some hopefully more
durable Continental tubes. The latex inner tubes which Rich Pinto says
are especially pinch puncture resistant appear to no longer be made in
the appropriate diameter for the Aero.

Zach Kaplan

[Rincon]

Zack,
What is your latest thoughts on tires for a Stratus for stability,
durability, and not giving up too much speed?


On 2 Jul 2003 07:55:50 -0700, (Zach Kaplan
Cycles) wrote:

>"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> > Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
>> > wheel Ross Festine were made?
>>
>> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
>> rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.
>>
>> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
>
>There were. Peter Ross brought a Festina with a 305mm front wheel and
>reverse rake fork to the World HPV Championships at Interlaken,
>Switzerland in 1999. I tried it out there as did many other people.
>This was a model for riders who weren't tall enough for the 406mm
>front wheel. I have no idea how many of these 305/406 Festinas were
>produced. The tyre on the one I rode was a European brand called the
>Schwalbe City Jet 54-305.
>
>I think about a dozen Pharobike Lowfats were made in the first batch.
>However someone got ahold of the remaining parts inventory from the
>estate of Dan Duchaine and sold them on eBay a while back and I
>believe there were some unassembled frames included so there may be
>more Lowfats on the road now than the amount that Dan had actually
>built up and shipped out.
>
>Zach Kaplan

[Rincon]

Zack,
What is your latest thoughts on tires for a Stratus for stability,
durability, and not giving up too much speed?


On 2 Jul 2003 07:55:50 -0700, (Zach Kaplan
Cycles) wrote:

>"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>> > Does anyone have the number of Pharobike Lowfats and ISO 305-mm front
>> > wheel Ross Festine were made?
>>
>> Were there *any* 305-front Festinae? I'd be somewhat surprised coz 305 is a
>> rare size over here and good tyres in it are very hard to find.
>>
>> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
>
>There were. Peter Ross brought a Festina with a 305mm front wheel and
>reverse rake fork to the World HPV Championships at Interlaken,
>Switzerland in 1999. I tried it out there as did many other people.
>This was a model for riders who weren't tall enough for the 406mm
>front wheel. I have no idea how many of these 305/406 Festinas were
>produced. The tyre on the one I rode was a European brand called the
>Schwalbe City Jet 54-305.
>
>I think about a dozen Pharobike Lowfats were made in the first batch.
>However someone got ahold of the remaining parts inventory from the
>estate of Dan Duchaine and sold them on eBay a while back and I
>believe there were some unassembled frames included so there may be
>more Lowfats on the road now than the amount that Dan had actually
>built up and shipped out.
>
>Zach Kaplan

[harv]

I hope you show up at NB for this year's races. It's pretty cool to see a
low racer train whoosh by. Hopefully this year I won't try to pound in a
tent peg with my instep and I'll get to see the train from on the track as
it whooshs by my V-REX. I even got Stelvios so I'll at least look fast; at
least when the bike is parked in the infield between races.:o)
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> GeoB wrote:
> >
> > I dont have a low-racer.. but sometimes I wonder what it would be like
> > to convert my Vision R40 to a larger tire in front. It would change
> > the handling but might just make it track better. It may gain some
> > 'flop-over' at low speeds. The BB would be higher, the rider more
> > recumbent. Anyone ever do this? It seems so do-able.
>
> George,
>
> I suggest finding an old junker MTB and putting the fork and front wheel
> on your R40. The investment will be minimal (except for labor) and you
> can always get the fork painted to match the rest of the bike (or chrome
> plated) and a better wheel if you like the handling.
>
> I have heard of a couple of ISO 406 mm rear wheel conversions on 40
> series Visions where the handling changes were reported as positive.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[harv]

I hope you show up at NB for this year's races. It's pretty cool to see a
low racer train whoosh by. Hopefully this year I won't try to pound in a
tent peg with my instep and I'll get to see the train from on the track as
it whooshs by my V-REX. I even got Stelvios so I'll at least look fast; at
least when the bike is parked in the infield between races.:o)
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> GeoB wrote:
> >
> > I dont have a low-racer.. but sometimes I wonder what it would be like
> > to convert my Vision R40 to a larger tire in front. It would change
> > the handling but might just make it track better. It may gain some
> > 'flop-over' at low speeds. The BB would be higher, the rider more
> > recumbent. Anyone ever do this? It seems so do-able.
>
> George,
>
> I suggest finding an old junker MTB and putting the fork and front wheel
> on your R40. The investment will be minimal (except for labor) and you
> can always get the fork painted to match the rest of the bike (or chrome
> plated) and a better wheel if you like the handling.
>
> I have heard of a couple of ISO 406 mm rear wheel conversions on 40
> series Visions where the handling changes were reported as positive.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Sherman]

harv wrote:
>
> I hope you show up at NB for this year's races....

If I did that, EARL would not longer be able to complain about me not
showing up. ;)

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Sherman]

harv wrote:
>
> I hope you show up at NB for this year's races....

If I did that, EARL would not longer be able to complain about me not
showing up. ;)

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Ken Kobayashi]

On 4 Jul 2003 11:00:59 +0950, thomas_delaney
> wrote:
>Ken wrote:
>>"The lowracer and the Hase Pino clone are new. The other models are
>>already available in Japan. The Pockey7 is going for 60,000 yen ($500)
>>and the TSUNAMI is sold as a frame kit for 50,000 ($420)."
>
>Ken, do you happen to have a link or other info on where I can take a
>look at these bikes in Japan? I live in Osaka and have been looking into
>getting a bent for a while. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I suggest taking a trip to Kyoto to visit Loro World Recumbents
( http://www.loro.co.jp/index2-lwr.html ) - they are the only
recumbent specialty shop in Japan. Although I'm not too sure if they
carry the Tsunami and Pockey7 - when I visited this spring the only
Taiwanese bent was the Sugimura Progressive (made by the same company
but different design). If you can't read the Japanese web page, the
shop owner (Mr. Koji Kobayashi - no relation to me) can be reached at


Also this page has some information about the Tsunami and Pocky7:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/ct-seizan/subrec0.html
(Click on thumbnails for detailed specs)

If you can read Japanese I recommend joining this mailing list:
http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~minivelo-bent/
That's where most Kansai area recumbent riders hang out on the 'net.

Ken Kobayashi

http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/

[Ken Kobayashi]

On 4 Jul 2003 11:00:59 +0950, thomas_delaney
> wrote:
>Ken wrote:
>>"The lowracer and the Hase Pino clone are new. The other models are
>>already available in Japan. The Pockey7 is going for 60,000 yen ($500)
>>and the TSUNAMI is sold as a frame kit for 50,000 ($420)."
>
>Ken, do you happen to have a link or other info on where I can take a
>look at these bikes in Japan? I live in Osaka and have been looking into
>getting a bent for a while. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I suggest taking a trip to Kyoto to visit Loro World Recumbents
( http://www.loro.co.jp/index2-lwr.html ) - they are the only
recumbent specialty shop in Japan. Although I'm not too sure if they
carry the Tsunami and Pockey7 - when I visited this spring the only
Taiwanese bent was the Sugimura Progressive (made by the same company
but different design). If you can't read the Japanese web page, the
shop owner (Mr. Koji Kobayashi - no relation to me) can be reached at


Also this page has some information about the Tsunami and Pocky7:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/ct-seizan/subrec0.html
(Click on thumbnails for detailed specs)

If you can read Japanese I recommend joining this mailing list:
http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~minivelo-bent/
That's where most Kansai area recumbent riders hang out on the 'net.

Ken Kobayashi

http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/

[thomas_delaney]

Ken,

‚¨•ÔŽ–‚ð‚_‚肪‚Æ‚¤‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚µ‚½�I

Tom



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>--------------------------<
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[thomas_delaney]

Ken,

‚¨•ÔŽ–‚ð‚_‚肪‚Æ‚¤‚²‚´‚¢‚Ü‚µ‚½�I

Tom



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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