What's up with Bigha?

[Felix Audet]

Anyone here own one?
How well their sales are going?
Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?

['BentRider]

I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
the most comfortable by any means but okay...


On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> wrote:

>Anyone here own one?
>How well their sales are going?
>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>
>
>
>

Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Will you pay $3000.00 to keep one of them?


'BentRider wrote:
> I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
> is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
> fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
> but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
> the most comfortable by any means but okay...
>
>
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Anyone here own one?
>>How well their sales are going?
>>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Bryan J. Ball
> Editor/Publisher
> www.bentrideronline.com

['BentRider]

That's not how it usually works for me. I rarely keep any test bikes
for more than a few months.

If you're asking if I think the bike is WORTH $3000, the jury is still
out. It probably is. There are certainly a lot of recumbents out
there that cost a lot more and aren't nearly as well made or as well
designed.

However, do we need a super high-end CLWB? Is this bike really even a
CLWB? Does it matter that it weighs so much? All questions that I
haven't answered yet and ones that most buyers will have to answer
individually.


On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:22:09 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> wrote:

>Will you pay $3000.00 to keep one of them?
>
>
>'BentRider wrote:
>> I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
>> is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
>> fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
>> but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
>> the most comfortable by any means but okay...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anyone here own one?
>>>How well their sales are going?
>>>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Bryan J. Ball
>> Editor/Publisher
>> www.bentrideronline.com
>
>

Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[skip]

"'BentRider" > wrote in message
...
Re: Bigha Cost/Value
<snip>
>There are certainly a lot of recumbents out
> there that cost a lot more and aren't nearly as well made or as well
> designed.

Interesting statement. Of course I'm wondering exactly which recumbents you
had in mind. I'll venture a guess. Were you thinking about a lot of
R-84's?

skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Are you going to fork out $3000.00 for a Bigha? If not, it is not worth
the price to you. I have heard a lot of glowing reviews of Bigha from
people who didn't have to pay for them, but not a single person who said
they would pay $3000.00 to keep the bike. If you are not willing to pay
for it, you obviously think it isn't worth it's cost. Can't you just say so?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand


'BentRider wrote:
> That's not how it usually works for me. I rarely keep any test bikes
> for more than a few months.
>
> If you're asking if I think the bike is WORTH $3000, the jury is still
> out. It probably is. There are certainly a lot of recumbents out
> there that cost a lot more and aren't nearly as well made or as well
> designed.
>
> However, do we need a super high-end CLWB? Is this bike really even a
> CLWB? Does it matter that it weighs so much? All questions that I
> haven't answered yet and ones that most buyers will have to answer
> individually.
>
>
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:22:09 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Will you pay $3000.00 to keep one of them?
>>
>>
>>'BentRider wrote:
>>
>>>I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
>>>is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
>>>fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
>>>but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
>>>the most comfortable by any means but okay...
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anyone here own one?
>>>>How well their sales are going?
>>>>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Bryan J. Ball
>>>Editor/Publisher
>>>www.bentrideronline.com
>>
>>
>
> Bryan J. Ball
> Editor/Publisher
> www.bentrideronline.com

[Edward Wong]

> Interesting statement. Of course I'm wondering exactly which recumbents you
> had in mind. I'll venture a guess. Were you thinking about a lot of
> R-84's?
>
> skip

Interesting statement as in "I doubt it?". If you look around it
won't be hard to agree with Bryan. Angletech Cycles sell bikes that
are typically in the $4000 to $6500 range and while they are probably
very nice, they may not compare in quality, fit, finish, design, etc.
with the BiGHa. A Mountain Drive equipted Kett Weisel routinely sells
for well over $3,000. You already mentioned the R-84 and the list
goes on so I do not in fact find Bryan's statement "interesting". I
do find it realistic to say the least.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

P.S. I do want to clarify that my statements are in no way a slam
against Angletech Cycles, Hase or Lightning. They are all fine
companies and was merely trying to compare dollar for value of one
bike against another.

[Mikael Seierup]

"Edward Wong"

> Interesting statement as in "I doubt it?". If you look around it
> won't be hard to agree with Bryan. Angletech Cycles sell bikes that
> are typically in the $4000 to $6500 range and while they are probably
> very nice, they may not compare in quality, fit, finish, design, etc.
> with the BiGHa. A Mountain Drive equipted Kett Weisel routinely sells
> for well over $3,000. You already mentioned the R-84 and the list
> goes on so I do not in fact find Bryan's statement "interesting". I
> do find it realistic to say the least.

While I agree I must point out that comparing a european bent's price
to an american is comparing apples and oranges. A Kett would be a lot
cheaper in Europe while a Bigha would sell for a mere 4500 usd. ;-)

I'd certanly buy a Bigha before one of those SWBs costing 5-6000.

Mikael

['BentRider]

That's exactly what I said.

I said that the final decision is a very personal one. The quality of
the bike is easily worth the $3000 when compared to other recumbents.
As you said... whether it's worth it to YOU is your decision. The
bike isn't fast and never will be. Most of the other bikes in this
price range are performance bikes. There's never really been a bike
like this in this price range before. Hard to tell if anyone will buy
them or not.

As to whether I'll BUY it or not... That's not the way it works. I
don't usually pay for bikes in the conventional sense. I usually get
them through ad trades or something like that. Occasionally I do buy
bikes for personal use but usually not at retail. This shouldn't be a
shock to anyone.

The more appropriate question is if I'll keep it when I'm done. The
answer to that is not yet decided but I might keep one of them around.
I do like the bike quite a bit.


On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:52:44 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> wrote:

>Are you going to fork out $3000.00 for a Bigha? If not, it is not worth
>the price to you. I have heard a lot of glowing reviews of Bigha from
>people who didn't have to pay for them, but not a single person who said
>they would pay $3000.00 to keep the bike. If you are not willing to pay
>for it, you obviously think it isn't worth it's cost. Can't you just say so?
>
>Lorenzo L. Love
>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
>'BentRider wrote:
>> That's not how it usually works for me. I rarely keep any test bikes
>> for more than a few months.
>>
>> If you're asking if I think the bike is WORTH $3000, the jury is still
>> out. It probably is. There are certainly a lot of recumbents out
>> there that cost a lot more and aren't nearly as well made or as well
>> designed.
>>
>> However, do we need a super high-end CLWB? Is this bike really even a
>> CLWB? Does it matter that it weighs so much? All questions that I
>> haven't answered yet and ones that most buyers will have to answer
>> individually.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:22:09 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Will you pay $3000.00 to keep one of them?
>>>
>>>
>>>'BentRider wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
>>>>is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
>>>>fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
>>>>but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
>>>>the most comfortable by any means but okay...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Anyone here own one?
>>>>>How well their sales are going?
>>>>>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bryan J. Ball
>>>>Editor/Publisher
>>>>www.bentrideronline.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bryan J. Ball
>> Editor/Publisher
>> www.bentrideronline.com
>
>

Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[Felix Audet]

I'm wondering this: how do people can order a 3000$ bike without a test
ride?
cause they only sell online I think.
How many companies sell ONLY on the internet except Bigha and ActionBent?
Buying a 800$ bike on the net without tring it is okay, but I'm not sure I'd
pay 3000$
for a bike that I've never riden..
My 2Ç.

Felix

[Lorenzo L. Love]

But you obviously don't like it enough to actually pay for it. I would
like a Rolex watch too, but not enough to actually pay for one. They
aren't worth it.

Are there any experienced recument riders that are paying $3000.00 for a
Bigha? The way the bike is being marketed is to avoid experienced riders
and target people new to recumbents, maybe new to biking all together,
who don't know any better then to pay this kind of price for a low
performance bike, no matter how nice the finish.

When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will be a
review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by giving it a
good review is pretty meaningless.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand




'BentRider wrote:
> That's exactly what I said.
>
> I said that the final decision is a very personal one. The quality of
> the bike is easily worth the $3000 when compared to other recumbents.
> As you said... whether it's worth it to YOU is your decision. The
> bike isn't fast and never will be. Most of the other bikes in this
> price range are performance bikes. There's never really been a bike
> like this in this price range before. Hard to tell if anyone will buy
> them or not.
>
> As to whether I'll BUY it or not... That's not the way it works. I
> don't usually pay for bikes in the conventional sense. I usually get
> them through ad trades or something like that. Occasionally I do buy
> bikes for personal use but usually not at retail. This shouldn't be a
> shock to anyone.
>
> The more appropriate question is if I'll keep it when I'm done. The
> answer to that is not yet decided but I might keep one of them around.
> I do like the bike quite a bit.
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:52:44 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Are you going to fork out $3000.00 for a Bigha? If not, it is not worth
>>the price to you. I have heard a lot of glowing reviews of Bigha from
>>people who didn't have to pay for them, but not a single person who said
>>they would pay $3000.00 to keep the bike. If you are not willing to pay
>>for it, you obviously think it isn't worth it's cost. Can't you just say so?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>>
>>'BentRider wrote:
>>
>>>That's not how it usually works for me. I rarely keep any test bikes
>>>for more than a few months.
>>>
>>>If you're asking if I think the bike is WORTH $3000, the jury is still
>>>out. It probably is. There are certainly a lot of recumbents out
>>>there that cost a lot more and aren't nearly as well made or as well
>>>designed.
>>>
>>>However, do we need a super high-end CLWB? Is this bike really even a
>>>CLWB? Does it matter that it weighs so much? All questions that I
>>>haven't answered yet and ones that most buyers will have to answer
>>>individually.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:22:09 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Will you pay $3000.00 to keep one of them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>'BentRider wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've got two of them here for testing right now. Initial impression
>>>>>is that they are heavy but very well made and the electronics are more
>>>>>fun than I thought they'd be. The performance isn't record-breaking
>>>>>but it's tolerable. Very easy to ride. The seat is different. Not
>>>>>the most comfortable by any means but okay...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 19:44:35 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone here own one?
>>>>>>How well their sales are going?
>>>>>>Anyone can feed any kind of informations..?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bryan J. Ball
>>>>>Editor/Publisher
>>>>>www.bentrideronline.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Bryan J. Ball
>>>Editor/Publisher
>>>www.bentrideronline.com
>>
>>
>
> Bryan J. Ball
> Editor/Publisher
> www.bentrideronline.com

[skip]

"Edward Wong" > wrote in message
om...

> Interesting statement as in "I doubt it?". If you look around it
> won't be hard to agree with Bryan. Angletech Cycles sell bikes that
> are typically in the $4000 to $6500 range and while they are probably
> very nice, they may not compare in quality, fit, finish, design, etc.
> with the BiGHa. A Mountain Drive equipted Kett Weisel routinely sells
> for well over $3,000. You already mentioned the R-84 and the list
> goes on so I do not in fact find Bryan's statement "interesting". I
> do find it realistic to say the least.
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL
>
> P.S. I do want to clarify that my statements are in no way a slam
> against Angletech Cycles, Hase or Lightning. They are all fine
> companies and was merely trying to compare dollar for value of one
> bike against another.

OK OK Bigha may have the market cornered on what Bentrider describes as a
heavy but well made $3000.00 CLWB bike offering tolerable performance, okay
comfort, and fun electronics. Slow enough perhaps to allow time to play
with the electronics as you plod along.

I'll take Ed Wong's suggestion under advisement that Bighas may offer better
quality and better design than Angletech's bikes or Kett Weisels, whatever
they are (for all I know that could mean "baby weasels" in German).

For me, I'll take a Tailwind thank you.
Good night Bob Cardone where ever you are.

skip

skip

[MLB]

> better quality and better design than Angletech's bikes or Kett
> Weisels, whatever they are (for all I know that could mean "baby
> weasels" in German).
>
> For me, I'll take a Tailwind thank you.
> Good night Bob Cardone where ever you are.
>
> skip
>
> skip
>
>
>

Actually it means "chain weasel".

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> But you obviously don't like it enough to actually pay for it. I would
> like a Rolex watch too, but not enough to actually pay for one. They
> aren't worth it.
>
> Are there any experienced recument riders that are paying $3000.00 for a
> Bigha? The way the bike is being marketed is to avoid experienced riders
> and target people new to recumbents, maybe new to biking all together,
> who don't know any better then to pay this kind of price for a low
> performance bike, no matter how nice the finish.
>
> When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will be a
> review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by giving it a
> good review is pretty meaningless.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>

Bikes are not given to magazines in exchange for good reviews. At
least, I am not aware of such arrangements between any of the bike
companies and the magazines. Can you provide us with detailed
information to the contrary?
Bikes are loaned to magazines for review purposes. The reviews are
written after the bike is tested, not before. Again, if you can provide
information to the contrary, I'm sure we'd all be glad to see it.
But I can see your point: if a manufacturer were to give a bike to a
reviewer, I would be suspicious of a good review. But in this case,
since not only has the review not been written, and the bike was not
given to the reviewer, then your last statement is meaningless or at
least is not applicable in this instance.
--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Felix Audet]

I'm wondering what percentage of bikes are sold on the internet..
Seems to me that the internet crowd of recumbent cyclists are more attracted
by
performance recumbents than the overall population of bent cyclists. I think
that selling only on the internet
is possible, but one would have more success with performance oriented
products than entry-level-bikeE type
of bents. One big issue remains, is how would a customer be convinced of
buying a product without actually trying it.
And I'm wondering how Bigha is dealing with this situation.
I think they are travelling troughout the country, with promotion team and
are offering test rides.
However, I doubt that it is sufficient to attract potential customers.

In other words, to buy on the internet without a test ride, you have to know
exactly what you want and what you're buying,
and have general knowledge of bents.
All above is only IMHO, And I'd be more than happy to have yours too!

Felix Audet

[Dean Arthur]

How about Mother's Cut-Rate Recumbent [trike] at...

http://www.motherearthnews.com/menarch/archive/goto.asp?article=081/081-162-01&ID=2613&Num=4

For the DIY type who can work with various metals. The original design
utilized EMT but is probably too flimsy for my 230 lb. bod. I'd have to
go with exhaust pipe despite the weight penalty.

[Dave Clary]

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:18:13 -0400, "Felix Audet"
> wrote:

>I'm wondering what percentage of bikes are sold on the internet..
>Seems to me that the internet crowd of recumbent cyclists are more attracted
>by
>performance recumbents than the overall population of bent cyclists. I think
>that selling only on the internet
>is possible, but one would have more success with performance oriented
>products than entry-level-bikeE type
>of bents. One big issue remains, is how would a customer be convinced of
>buying a product without actually trying it.

I wasn't that long ago that you couldn't "try before your buy" unless
you lived near a small, select number of cities (at least in the U.S.)
or were willing to travel. I don't know what the count is on the
number of shops selling recumbents these days but I bet it's still
hard to find one in many parts of the U.S.

I described my P-38 purchase as a "leap of faith!"

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
EZ-1SC Pilot (Texas P-38 Squadron Retired)
Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary
P-38 Stuff: http://www.geocities.com/texasp38/texasp38.html
Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org

[skip]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will be a
> review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by giving it a
> good review is pretty meaningless.
>

I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they will
always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to be foolish.
Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for sale three months
later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of sorts. Or ask them a year
later what they think.

Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a ringer
or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of Martin (cant think
of his last name) reviews because they seem to be nothing more than shuck
and jive for his latest sponsor neatly interwoven into some cross country
ride infomercial. I think I can tell when a reviewer really likes a bike,
doesn't like one, or is just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on
Line and Recumbent Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their
reveiwers. I know Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several
occasions and has been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the
matter.

skip





>

[Lorenzo L. Love]

skip wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> <snip>
>
>>When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will be a
>>review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by giving it a
>>good review is pretty meaningless.
>>
>
>
> I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they will
> always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to be foolish.
> Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for sale three months
> later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of sorts. Or ask them a year
> later what they think.
>
> Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a ringer
> or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of Martin (cant think
> of his last name) reviews because they seem to be nothing more than shuck
> and jive for his latest sponsor neatly interwoven into some cross country
> ride infomercial. I think I can tell when a reviewer really likes a bike,
> doesn't like one, or is just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on
> Line and Recumbent Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their
> reveiwers. I know Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several
> occasions and has been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the
> matter.
>
> skip

Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
$3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent bikes
would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones. If you
want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost. The Bigha
is designed for people who don't know anything about recumbents. That's
how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

['BentRider]

> Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
> $3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent bikes
> would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones. If you
> want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost. The Bigha
> is designed for people who don't know anything about recumbents. That's
> how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.

This is interesting... I've never had to defend a review BEFORE I
wrote it.

Responding to one of your earlier posts... I've NEVER gotten a "free"
bike. Getting a bike for an ad trade is not getting a free bike.
That takes up space that I could use for someone else's ad that might
be paying cash. I rarely keep ad trade bikes. 'BentRider is a
business where I try to make a living. Not just a clever source to
get free bikes. Where the bike came from or what I'm doing with it
when I'm done has never influenced a review. I let my past reviews
speak for themselves.

As for if I personally would buy a BiGHA for the retail price... I'm
not looking to buy any CLWB at the moment so I probably would have
never ridden one or looked at it intensely in the first place if
didn't own 'BentRider. So no, I wouldn't have. However, now that
it's here I do like it enough to consider keeping it around for awhile
and not turning it into cash. Do I think that the bike is worth the
money for the right people? I've only been on it a week so the jury
is still out, but right now I'd say yes. If you're not satysfied with
that answer, I can't help you.

A more interesting direction for this topic is this question... Does
a $3000 recumbent HAVE to be fast? A lot of riders don't care a lick
about speed. Is BiGHA doing something wrong by targeting
non-cyclists? Is there any reason to think that non-cyclists BiGHA
buyers will be disappointed with their purchases? I'm not expressing
an opinion, just soliciting those of you on the newsgroup.

['BentRider]

>I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they will
>always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to be foolish.
>Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for sale three months
>later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of sorts. Or ask them a year
>later what they think.

That is why 'BentRider accepts reader articles but not owner reviews.
Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[MLB]

"Mikael Seierup" > wrote in
:

>
> "MLB" skrev
>
>> Of course it doesn't have to be fast. I find it tedious at times, the
>> never ending pursuit of speed by some folks here. and even more so,
>> the suggestion that speed is the only criteria worth paying for..
>> silly.
>
> You know fast also means it takes less effort at a given speed.
> So merely saying we're silly because we bought a fast bike is a bit
> daft. ;-)
>
> And if you want a comfortable bike for commuting or city runabout
> or whatever theres still loads of cheaper ones.
>
> Mikael
> 20 nautical miles east of Iceland.
>

You're a bit daft if you suggest that "I" said you were silly for buying a
fast bike.

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "MLB" skrev
>
>> Of course it doesn't have to be fast. I find it tedious at times, the never
>> ending pursuit of speed by some folks here. and even more so, the
>> suggestion that speed is the only criteria worth paying for.. silly.
>
> You know fast also means it takes less effort at a given speed.
> So merely saying we're silly because we bought a fast bike is a bit daft. ;-)
>
> And if you want a comfortable bike for commuting or city runabout
> or whatever theres still loads of cheaper ones.
>
> Mikael
> 20 nautical miles east of Iceland.
Mikael,

As a frequent visitor to Iceland, what is 20 nautical miles east of it,
other than water?

Ian

[Mikael Seierup]

"Ian" skrev...

> As a frequent visitor to Iceland, what is 20 nautical miles east of it,
> other than water?

Ah yes. Would someone please send me a dinghy and some crackers?

M.
Tapdancing in Kuala Lumpur

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" skrev...
>
>> As a frequent visitor to Iceland, what is 20 nautical miles east of it,
>> other than water?
>
> Ah yes. Would someone please send me a dinghy and some crackers?
>
> M.
> Tapdancing in Kuala Lumpur
Mikael,

That big white thing you have been living on isn't an iceberg, judging by
the heatwave in Iceland, (I go there a few times a year), your on the back
of Moby Dick, boy are you screwed.

Ian

[Lorenzo L. Love]

'BentRider wrote:
>>Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
>>$3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent bikes
>>would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones. If you
>>want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost. The Bigha
>>is designed for people who don't know anything about recumbents. That's
>>how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.
>
>
> This is interesting... I've never had to defend a review BEFORE I
> wrote it.
>
> Responding to one of your earlier posts... I've NEVER gotten a "free"
> bike. Getting a bike for an ad trade is not getting a free bike.
> That takes up space that I could use for someone else's ad that might
> be paying cash. I rarely keep ad trade bikes. 'BentRider is a
> business where I try to make a living. Not just a clever source to
> get free bikes. Where the bike came from or what I'm doing with it
> when I'm done has never influenced a review. I let my past reviews
> speak for themselves.
>
> As for if I personally would buy a BiGHA for the retail price... I'm
> not looking to buy any CLWB at the moment so I probably would have
> never ridden one or looked at it intensely in the first place if
> didn't own 'BentRider. So no, I wouldn't have. However, now that
> it's here I do like it enough to consider keeping it around for awhile
> and not turning it into cash. Do I think that the bike is worth the
> money for the right people? I've only been on it a week so the jury
> is still out, but right now I'd say yes. If you're not satysfied with
> that answer, I can't help you.
>
> A more interesting direction for this topic is this question... Does
> a $3000 recumbent HAVE to be fast? A lot of riders don't care a lick
> about speed. Is BiGHA doing something wrong by targeting
> non-cyclists? Is there any reason to think that non-cyclists BiGHA
> buyers will be disappointed with their purchases? I'm not expressing
> an opinion, just soliciting those of you on the newsgroup.

Does a comfort recumbent HAVE to cost $3000.00? Are there a lot of
riders who don't care a lick about cost? Is there any reason to think
that non-cyclists Bigha buyers will be disappointed when they find out
they could have bought a similar bike for half the cost?

Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to give
bad reviews and cut off the supply? How many "don't buy this bike"
reviews have BentRiderOnline given? Can someone who's income depends on
ad revenue give an unbiased review?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>skip wrote:
>>
>>>"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
>>>>be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
>>>>giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
>>>will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
>>>be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
>>>sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
>>>sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.
>>>
>>>Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
>>>ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
>>>Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
>>>nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
>>>interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
>>>tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
>>>just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
>>>Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
>>>Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
>>>been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.
>>>
>>>skip
>>
>>Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
>>$3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
>>bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
>>If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
>>The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
>>recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>>
>
>
> So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
> it??????????????

Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me of
the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of review
units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but no one,
not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the thing because
it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the Bigha is an
overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such a shortage of
slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00 for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> MLB wrote:
>
>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> skip wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
>>>>> be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
>>>>> giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
>>>> will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
>>>> be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
>>>> sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
>>>> sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.
>>>>
>>>> Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
>>>> ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
>>>> Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
>>>> nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
>>>> interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
>>>> tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
>>>> just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
>>>> Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
>>>> Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
>>>> been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.
>>>>
>>>> skip
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
>>> $3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
>>> bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
>>> If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
>>> The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
>>> recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
>> it??????????????
>
>
> Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
> bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me of
> the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of review
> units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but no one,
> not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the thing because
> it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the Bigha is an
> overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such a shortage of
> slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00 for one?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I don't recall any reviewers saying how great the BigHA is. Can you
name the websites and/or magazines where you've seen these reviews?
And speaking of unbiased and/or negative reviews - have you read any
of the reviews on either http://www.bentrideronline.com or in Recumbent
Cyclist News? Were they all positive, glowing reports? Or were there
negative comments as well?
I have never seen a BigHA except in advertisements. Have you? You
seem to have a pretty negative opinion of it. Is it based solely on the
price, ride, handling, whatever? I'm interested in how you formulated
your opinion.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Edward Wong]

MLB > wrote in message >...
> > that answer, I can't help you.
> >
> > A more interesting direction for this topic is this question... Does
> > a $3000 recumbent HAVE to be fast? A lot of riders don't care a lick
> > about speed. Is BiGHA doing something wrong by targeting
> > non-cyclists? Is there any reason to think that non-cyclists BiGHA
> > buyers will be disappointed with their purchases? I'm not expressing
> > an opinion, just soliciting those of you on the newsgroup.
>
> Of course it doesn't have to be fast. I find it tedious at times, the never
> ending pursuit of speed by some folks here. and even more so, the
> suggestion that speed is the only criteria worth paying for.. silly.
> >

I agree with you on this. There seems to be a rabid obsession with
speed here and many here assume that most bent riders are. They're
wrong! I've done numerous rides with other recumbent owners who don't
give a "flying flip" about speed. They just want a comfortable ride
and enjoy themselves.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[BentHeadSWB]

>I've done numerous rides with other recumbent owners who don't give a "flying
flip" about speed. They just want a comfortable ride
>and enjoy themselves.

I agree with Ed,
Setting speed records is something I used to do "back in the day" but now I
just ride to commute and enjoy the scenery. The HH100 is coming up in 12 days
and I will ride it, not race it.
I could cut the weight on my bent by quite a bit if I got ride of
suspension parts, comfort parts, racks, lights, durable wheels and kevlar
belted tires. Then I would have an equivalent of a wedgie that costs way, way,
way too much.
My bent is quick, my wife's EZ-1SC is what the neighborhood rides and wants
to purchase. The comfort folks like the CLWB and the racers want those low
racers. My full suspension 700/20, USS, SWB is stuck between the two, racer or
comfort. Just the way I like it.
Will Bigha fail? I have no idea, their bents are very expensive but have
a lot of cool things for people into comfort bents. I just want to see a
review that has a critical eye towards the Bigha, maybe someone can post one in
the future. Roadbikereview has a portion were recumbent reviews are posted,
who knows...one might show up there.
As far as speed, BROL and this NG goes... speed tends to creep into the
equation. BROL has their slant which I recognize (and discard) this NG has
it's particular flavor. I sort of miss Bob "RANS or nothing" Cardone and Tom
the Quad Cities guy always has a interesting quip to throw in on (off) topics.

If speed freaks ruled the recumbent market, why was the EZ-3 Trike the
hottest seller for a month or so? It could be that bent sales are driven by
comfort, price, durability and speed.

John H
Stayin' comfy in N TX

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> MLB wrote:
>>
>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> skip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
>>>>>> be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
>>>>>> giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
>>>>> will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
>>>>> be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
>>>>> sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
>>>>> sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
>>>>> ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
>>>>> Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
>>>>> nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
>>>>> interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
>>>>> tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
>>>>> just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
>>>>> Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
>>>>> Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
>>>>> been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> skip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
>>>> $3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
>>>> bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
>>>> If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
>>>> The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
>>>> recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
>>> it??????????????
>>
>>
>>
>> Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
>> bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me
>> of the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of
>> review units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but
>> no one, not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the
>> thing because it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the
>> Bigha is an overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such
>> a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00
>> for one?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>
> I don't recall any reviewers saying how great the BigHA is. Can you
> name the websites and/or magazines where you've seen these reviews?
> And speaking of unbiased and/or negative reviews - have you read any
> of the reviews on either http://www.bentrideronline.com or in Recumbent
> Cyclist News? Were they all positive, glowing reports? Or were there
> negative comments as well?
> I have never seen a BigHA except in advertisements. Have you? You seem
> to have a pretty negative opinion of it. Is it based solely on the
> price, ride, handling, whatever? I'm interested in how you formulated
> your opinion.
>

Read Ball's comments. On his site, all the current reviews are positive.
I don't recall any "don't buy" reviews. Are there any? Glen Goldstein
posted a very favorable review on the BikeE list, but he's not buying
one either. There's been others. But no one is actually willing to pay
$3000.00 for a 50 pound bike. Are you going to pay $3000.00 for one?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> MLB wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> skip wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When someone pays full price and says it's well worth it, that will
>>>>>>> be a review that I can believe. Otherwise, getting a free bike by
>>>>>>> giving it a good review is pretty meaningless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've found if someone has just paid full price for an item they they
>>>>>> will always say it was well worth it - otherwise they would appear to
>>>>>> be foolish. Maybe the true test is to see if they the bike up for
>>>>>> sale three months later with 200 miles on it. That's a review of
>>>>>> sorts. Or ask them a year later what they think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Generally I think I have a pretty good take on whether a review is a
>>>>>> ringer or not. For example, I would not bother to read one of
>>>>>> Martin (cant think of his last name) reviews because they seem to be
>>>>>> nothing more than shuck and jive for his latest sponsor neatly
>>>>>> interwoven into some cross country ride infomercial. I think I can
>>>>>> tell when a reviewer really likes a bike, doesn't like one, or is
>>>>>> just puffing. I trust the reviews on Bentrider on Line and Recumbent
>>>>>> Cyclist News to reflect the true opinions of their reveiwers. I know
>>>>>> Bob Bryant has written on this subject on several occasions and has
>>>>>> been very forthright in presenting his thoughts on the matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I believe him, especially when he says he's not going to pay
>>>>> $3000.00 for a Bigha. Who with any real experience with recumbent
>>>>> bikes would? If you want a comfort bike, there are much cheaper ones.
>>>>> If you want a performance bike, you can get far better for the cost.
>>>>> The Bigha is designed for people who don't know anything about
>>>>> recumbents. That's how it's being marketed, to the non-bicyclist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>>
>>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So why do you keep asking what experienced benter would pay 3k for
>>>> it??????????????
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Because I'm wondering why so many reviewers are saying how great this
>>> bike is even though they would never buy it themselves. It reminds me
>>> of the Segway. Lots of great reviews because they sent out lots of
>>> review units to people who they knew would give positive reviews, but
>>> no one, not even the reviewers who say it's great, are buying the
>>> thing because it costs such a ridiculous amount. Like the Segway, the
>>> Bigha is an overpriced solution in search of a problem. Is there such
>>> a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents that we need to pay $3000.00
>>> for one?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>
>> I don't recall any reviewers saying how great the BigHA is. Can you
>> name the websites and/or magazines where you've seen these reviews?
>> And speaking of unbiased and/or negative reviews - have you read any
>> of the reviews on either http://www.bentrideronline.com or in
>> Recumbent Cyclist News? Were they all positive, glowing reports? Or
>> were there negative comments as well?
>> I have never seen a BigHA except in advertisements. Have you? You
>> seem to have a pretty negative opinion of it. Is it based solely on
>> the price, ride, handling, whatever? I'm interested in how you
>> formulated your opinion.
>>
>
> Read Ball's comments. On his site, all the current reviews are positive.
> I don't recall any "don't buy" reviews. Are there any? Glen Goldstein
> posted a very favorable review on the BikeE list, but he's not buying
> one either. There's been others. But no one is actually willing to pay
> $3000.00 for a 50 pound bike. Are you going to pay $3000.00 for one?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I have read his reviews, this month's as well as others. And while
none of the reviews were completely negative - a "don't buy" review -
there were several comments that weren't favorable.
The thing is, there are very few recumbents being sold that are so
horrendous as to be judged completely unsuitable for everyone. And,
there are none that are perfect for everyone, either. Read the reviews
and you'll find the negative comments.
So, what's been your experience with the BigHA? Have you ever
actually seen one? Rode one? Or are all your negative comments just
because of the price? Do you feel that it is totally unsuitable for
everyone ("No one is actually willing to pay $3000.00 for a 50 pound
bike.") based on your total lack of any actual contact with the bike?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Russ Price]

Larry Varney > wrote:

[ 105 lines of quoted text deleted ]

Doesn't anyone know how to trim posts? :o)

> I have read his reviews, this month's as well as others. And while
> none of the reviews were completely negative - a "don't buy" review -
> there were several comments that weren't favorable.
> The thing is, there are very few recumbents being sold that are so
> horrendous as to be judged completely unsuitable for everyone. And,
> there are none that are perfect for everyone, either.

Given the prices for recumbents, it would be economic suicide to build a
recumbent that truly sucked. Besides, good bikes of any kind aren't
at all cheap. A high-quality utility bike can come close to an EZ-1 in
price; a Moulton can reach Ti-Rush levels.

--
Russ --kill the wabbit
"The best thing about that show was the number of cars that exploded
into huge fireballs. If only 'twere so...." -Chalo Colina, re: "CHiPs"

['BentRider]

>Does a comfort recumbent HAVE to cost $3000.00? Are there a lot of
>riders who don't care a lick about cost? Is there any reason to think
>that non-cyclists Bigha buyers will be disappointed when they find out
>they could have bought a similar bike for half the cost?
>
>Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to give
>bad reviews and cut off the supply? How many "don't buy this bike"
>reviews have BentRiderOnline given? Can someone who's income depends on
>ad revenue give an unbiased review?

Do you read or trust ANY magazine that reviews products? Every
publication out there relies on ad revenue to some extent. If they
didn't, subscriptions would have to cost $100 a year. I have no need
to defend my reviews and won't get into it here. I just think that
you have a very inaccurate perception of how the media industry works
if you're criticizing me for taking in ad revenue.
Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[Lorenzo L. Love]

'BentRider wrote:
>>Does a comfort recumbent HAVE to cost $3000.00? Are there a lot of
>>riders who don't care a lick about cost? Is there any reason to think
>>that non-cyclists Bigha buyers will be disappointed when they find out
>>they could have bought a similar bike for half the cost?
>>
>>Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to give
>>bad reviews and cut off the supply? How many "don't buy this bike"
>>reviews have BentRiderOnline given? Can someone who's income depends on
>>ad revenue give an unbiased review?
>
>
> Do you read or trust ANY magazine that reviews products? Every
> publication out there relies on ad revenue to some extent. If they
> didn't, subscriptions would have to cost $100 a year. I have no need
> to defend my reviews and won't get into it here. I just think that
> you have a very inaccurate perception of how the media industry works
> if you're criticizing me for taking in ad revenue.
> Bryan J. Ball
> Editor/Publisher
> www.bentrideronline.com

In order to remain completely independent, Consumer Reports does not
accept any ads and it costs just $26 a year, less then many magazines
that are ad supported. But then the Consumers Union, who publish CR, is
a nonprofit organization and not out to maximize profits. No publication
that accepts ad revenue can be independent. It couldn't maximize profits
if it was. Because Consumer Reports does not accept ads or free samples,
paying retail for all tested items, it is the most trusted source of
consumer reviews.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Mikael Seierup]

"Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...

(8 million needlessly quoted lines snipped)

> My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
> read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
> thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?

Its just a review. It doesn't mean you can't form your own opinion.
Does movie reviewers have to buy stock in the filmcompanies
for you to take their reviews seriously?

I'm looking forward to the Bigha review but I doubt it would make me
buy one even if it was dubbed the greatest recumbent of all times.
Which it wont be. BROL's reviews always gives you the full picture IMHO.

If you want to test that thesis pick a review of a bike that many people here own
and ask them to comment on the review.

Btw. anyone who used the epithet "speed freak" shall hereby be known as
"Grumpy old slugs." ;o)

Regards
Mikael
Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )

[Dave Larrington]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:


> Can someone who is dependent on getting free review bikes afford to
> give bad reviews and cut off the supply?

Be advised that Bryan is not the only person who tests machines and writes
reviews for BROL. The Trice Micro, for example, tested a year or so ago,
was on loan from ICE. I can say with absolute conviction that had it been a
dog, the reviewer would have said so. However, the Micro is a cracking
machine, and thus the question did not arise.

Whether Bryan would have been happy to publish an unfavourable is another
matter, but since other publications routinely give poor products a pasting,
I see no reason to believe BROL should be any different. Nissan continued
to advertise with the UK's CAR magazine even after they wrote "Now that the
Chevrolet Camaro is no longer sold in the UK, the Nissan Serena can now
claim the title it has long deserved, that of Worst New Car On Sale In
Britain", or something similar.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Lawrence Turner]

Lorenzo, what's the problem? Why not just say "I don't like Bigha"
and leave it at that? I'm sure they make a very nice product. Maybe
it's not the bike you're looking for, but that doesn't make it a
complete rip off.

You said buying a Rolex is a waste of money. True: you can buy a
cheap watch that still tells time. But will it last as long as a
Rolex? Will the manufacturer stand behind their product the way Rolex
does? Yes, you are paying for fashion and the name brand - which is
worth something. But you're also buying quality.

Why not buy all your clothes at Goodwill? Take it a step further: why
not just use leaves to cover yourself - as long as you cover yourself,
right?

Bryan will give this bike a fair review. I'm sure the folks at Bigha
didn't make him sign anything saying he'd only say positive things
about it. I doubt that Glen Goldstein was told the same either. If
you're reading so many positive reviews about the bike, chaces are
it's pretty damned nice. Is that such a far fetched proposition?

My guess is you just can't accept that those with the financial
ability to construct a bike don't view it in the same light you do.
Maybe also a little bitterness at the fact you can't afford such a
bike?

Either way, get over it my friend! You're looking like a jerk... which
I'm sure you're not.

>
> My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
> read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
> thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?
>
> I'm sure that the Bigha is not completely unsuitable for everyone. It is
> probably just fine for people with more money then they can spend and no
> knowledge of bicycles. The same type of people who buy Segways.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
> make a good living."
> W.C. Fields

[Edward Wong]

> Btw. anyone who used the epithet "speed freak" shall hereby be known as
> "Grumpy old slugs." ;o)
>
> Regards
> Mikael
> Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )

I'm certain your comment above is just "tongue in cheek", right
Mikael? ;-) Just for clarification purposes, I don't think anyone here
is against "speed". But there are those who are speed over utility
and that is unacceptable. This is alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent...not
rec.bicycles.racing. For those "speed freaks" there is the HPV list
but even there they talk about all types of human powered vehicles and
view them in all aspects whether they're fast or not. One think
though, they're very serious and would never accept the charades that
go on in a.r.b.r. You'd get kicked off the list in a hurry!!!

On this discussion, I would not continue to argue with Lorenzo. It's
feeding the troll so to speak. IMHO, it's already time to let this
thread die.

Peace

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
> read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
> thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?
>


I have mentioned before that I have never seen, much less ridden, a
BigHA. So, I have very little to go on, other than the price and
pictures I've seen, to determine whether or not I'll ever buy one.
Additionally, there's the factor that I already have an upright
recumbent and two recumbent trikes. I doubt if I'd buy a Gold Rush for
the same $3000, and it's not because I don't like the Gold Rush so much
as I don't need another bike.
I have seen and ridden a Gold Rush, so that helps me decide not to
buy one right now. I have not seen nor ridden a BigHA. That is the big
determining factor for it.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

['BentRider]

> In order to remain completely independent, Consumer Reports does not
> accept any ads and it costs just $26 a year, less then many magazines
> that are ad supported. But then the Consumers Union, who publish CR, is
> a nonprofit organization and not out to maximize profits. No publication
> that accepts ad revenue can be independent. It couldn't maximize profits
> if it was. Because Consumer Reports does not accept ads or free samples,
> paying retail for all tested items, it is the most trusted source of
> consumer reviews.

If that were even remotely financially possible in the recumbent
world, I'd do it in a second. Collecting ad revenue is by far my
least favorite part of the job.

Bryan J. Ball
www.bentrideronline.com

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
>> read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
>> thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?
>>
>
>
> I have mentioned before that I have never seen, much less ridden, a
> BigHA. So, I have very little to go on, other than the price and
> pictures I've seen, to determine whether or not I'll ever buy one.
> Additionally, there's the factor that I already have an upright
> recumbent and two recumbent trikes. I doubt if I'd buy a Gold Rush for
> the same $3000, and it's not because I don't like the Gold Rush so much
> as I don't need another bike.
> I have seen and ridden a Gold Rush, so that helps me decide not to buy
> one right now. I have not seen nor ridden a BigHA. That is the big
> determining factor for it.

I've never seen or ridden one either, but that doesn't matter. The point
is, people who HAVE test ridden a Bigha say they would not buy one. My
question is: what knowledgeable recumbent rider would pay $3000.00 for a
Bigha? Anyone?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

'BentRider wrote:
>>In order to remain completely independent, Consumer Reports does not
>>accept any ads and it costs just $26 a year, less then many magazines
>>that are ad supported. But then the Consumers Union, who publish CR, is
>>a nonprofit organization and not out to maximize profits. No publication
>>that accepts ad revenue can be independent. It couldn't maximize profits
>>if it was. Because Consumer Reports does not accept ads or free samples,
>>paying retail for all tested items, it is the most trusted source of
>>consumer reviews.
>
>
> If that were even remotely financially possible in the recumbent
> world, I'd do it in a second. Collecting ad revenue is by far my
> least favorite part of the job.
>
> Bryan J. Ball
> www.bentrideronline.com

Perhaps the recumbent market is too small to support an independent
testing organization. Perhaps not. We won't know unless someone tries.
Until then, we have only reviews from people who get their income from
the industry they are reviewing. In no way independent.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

['BentRider]

You've obviously made up your mind on the issue and have no desire to
hear the other side of it.

I'm only one in my own head and I know that I'm fair and honest. That
has to be good enough for me.


Bryan J. Ball
www.bentrideronline.com
Bryan J. Ball
Editor/Publisher
www.bentrideronline.com

[Bob Wand]

I have never tested one or seen one for that matter, but I probably would
buy one. That's one bent I haven't own yet.

Bob (I ride wearing my Rolex because it is durable) Wand


"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> Larry Varney wrote:
> > Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> >
> >> My experience is that not a single reviewer of the Bigha that I have
> >> read says that they will actually pay $3000.00 for one, i.e. not one
> >> thinks it is worth it's price to them. Will you buy one?
> >>
> >
> >
> > I have mentioned before that I have never seen, much less ridden, a
> > BigHA. So, I have very little to go on, other than the price and
> > pictures I've seen, to determine whether or not I'll ever buy one.
> > Additionally, there's the factor that I already have an upright
> > recumbent and two recumbent trikes. I doubt if I'd buy a Gold Rush for
> > the same $3000, and it's not because I don't like the Gold Rush so much
> > as I don't need another bike.
> > I have seen and ridden a Gold Rush, so that helps me decide not to buy
> > one right now. I have not seen nor ridden a BigHA. That is the big
> > determining factor for it.
>
> I've never seen or ridden one either, but that doesn't matter. The point
> is, people who HAVE test ridden a Bigha say they would not buy one. My
> question is: what knowledgeable recumbent rider would pay $3000.00 for a
> Bigha? Anyone?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Wong wrote:
>
> I'm certain your comment above is just "tongue in cheek", right
> Mikael? ;-) Just for clarification purposes, I don't think anyone here
> is against "speed". But there are those who are speed over utility
> and that is unacceptable. This is alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent...not
> rec.bicycles.racing....

Unacceptable? I see no requirement that a.r.b.r. be dedicated only to
utilitarian uses of recumbents. Even those with the strictest
interpretation of what is on topic would accept threads about recumbent
performance that ignored the utilitarian aspects of the bikes under
discussion.

> On this discussion, I would not continue to argue with Lorenzo. It's
> feeding the troll so to speak. IMHO, it's already time to let this
> thread die.

That is rather wimpy. Do you need Mr. Dolan and myself to explain what a
REAL discussion is? ;)

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Ken Kobayashi]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:31:58 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> wrote:
>I've never seen or ridden one either, but that doesn't matter. The point
>is, people who HAVE test ridden a Bigha say they would not buy one. My
>question is: what knowledgeable recumbent rider would pay $3000.00 for a
>Bigha? Anyone?

Why does it matter to you that the bike doesn't suit the needs and
preferences of the reviewer? Reviews are supposed to provide
subjective information about the strenghts and weaknesses of a
product. If I want to read "I loved it so I bought one" stories I'll
just come here to ARBR. In fact if the reviewer loved the bike and
decided to buy one to keep, I'm not sure if I want to know about it.
It would skew my judgement and I may end up buying one even though my
needs and preferences are very different from those of the reviewer.

If you're looking for informed 'bent riders who have decided to buy a
Bigha, there's at least one on the BROL message board.

Ken Kobayashi

http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/

[Edward Wong]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Edward Wong wrote:
> >
> > I'm certain your comment above is just "tongue in cheek", right
> > Mikael? ;-) Just for clarification purposes, I don't think anyone here
> > is against "speed". But there are those who are speed over utility
> > and that is unacceptable. This is alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent...not
> > rec.bicycles.racing....
>
> Unacceptable? I see no requirement that a.r.b.r. be dedicated only to
> utilitarian uses of recumbents. Even those with the strictest
> interpretation of what is on topic would accept threads about recumbent
> performance that ignored the utilitarian aspects of the bikes under
> discussion.

I see no requirement that a.r.b.r. be dedicated only to speed aspects
of recumbents. That's what I meant. It's the attitude of instantly
dismissing a new bike just because it's not speed oriented that is
getting old. Two years ago, several of us strived to drive out the
trolls in a.r.b.r. who attacked not just the bikes but the individuals
who owned such bikes (ReBike, BikeE, etc.) You should have read some
of the really nasty posts and you would understand. We succeeded to a
point but there seems to be some "new blood" creeping in.

> > On this discussion, I would not continue to argue with Lorenzo. It's
> > feeding the troll so to speak. IMHO, it's already time to let this
> > thread die.
>
> That is rather wimpy. Do you need Mr. Dolan and myself to explain what a
> REAL discussion is? ;)

Why don't you explain what the REAL discussion is to Lorenzo? And
what is wimpy about my statement above? ;-)----means I still keep a
sense of humor about this;-)-----there, I just confirmed it.

> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Wile E. Coyote wrote:
> We Have a Winner
>
> You asked if there is a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents and the answer
> is YES.
> Everyone and his dog has been hell-bent on tweaking their bents to as low a
> weight as is possible without it shattering if hit by a tennis ball. This
> HAS resulted in a shortage of heavy bent behemoths and I suppose a 50 lb.
> BigHa would qualify in the heavy bent division (which is getting smaller
> every year).
> In the Niche Market we have a winner, the slow heavy BigHa bent.
> **************************************************
>
>
> the Bigha is an overpriced solution in search of a problem.
>
>>>>>>Is there such a shortage of slow heavy comfort bents that we need to
>>>>>>pay $3000.00 for one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>>
>
>

The EZ-1 SC cost is one sixth that of the Bigha. Is the Bigha six times
better? The RANS Fusion cost is almost one forth that of the Bigha. Is
the Bigha four times better? There are still a lot of slow heavy comfort
bents around for a fraction of the Bigha. But if you are going to pay
that much, why go slow? The Bigha costs more then the Vision VR65, Tour
Easy or Lighting P38. Is the Bigha better then any of these? You can get
a Greenspeed GTR for the same cost as a Bigha. Is the Bigha as good?

I got to go ride my slow heavy BikeE CT that cost one fifth as much as a
Bigha.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> The EZ-1 SC cost is one sixth that of the Bigha. Is the Bigha six times
> better? The RANS Fusion cost is almost one forth that of the Bigha. Is
> the Bigha four times better? There are still a lot of slow heavy comfort
> bents around for a fraction of the Bigha. But if you are going to pay
> that much, why go slow? The Bigha costs more then the Vision VR65, Tour
> Easy or Lighting P38. Is the Bigha better then any of these? You can get
> a Greenspeed GTR for the same cost as a Bigha. Is the Bigha as good?
>

Those questions can be answered (and asked) by everyone, of course,
but how credible would be the answers if the person had not ridden the
bikes mentioned? Not to mention how "six times better" can be
determined, whether it be related to bikes, cars, apple pie or any
number of other things we can purchase.
Lots of variable, lots of subjective opinions, criteria, and
viewpoints, but it all comes down to one thing: if the person hasn't
ridden the bikes in question, then his opinion of relative worth is
nothing more than that.


--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> The EZ-1 SC cost is one sixth that of the Bigha. Is the Bigha six
>>> times better? The RANS Fusion cost is almost one forth that of the
>>> Bigha. Is the Bigha four times better? There are still a lot of slow
>>> heavy comfort bents around for a fraction of the Bigha. But if you
>>> are going to pay that much, why go slow? The Bigha costs more then
>>> the Vision VR65, Tour Easy or Lighting P38. Is the Bigha better then
>>> any of these? You can get a Greenspeed GTR for the same cost as a
>>> Bigha. Is the Bigha as good?
>>>
>>
>> Those questions can be answered (and asked) by everyone, of course,
>> but how credible would be the answers if the person had not ridden the
>> bikes mentioned? Not to mention how "six times better" can be
>> determined, whether it be related to bikes, cars, apple pie or any
>> number of other things we can purchase.
>> Lots of variable, lots of subjective opinions, criteria, and
>> viewpoints, but it all comes down to one thing: if the person hasn't
>> ridden the bikes in question, then his opinion of relative worth is
>> nothing more than that.
>>
>>
>
> Have you ridden a Bigha? If so, do you have one on order?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I've already posted, several times, that I not only have never ridden
one, I've never even seen one. And you keep telling us how horrible the
bike is, and *you* have never seen or ridden one.
If so, do you have one on order? No? Why not? For some strange reason
you seem to have taken it as your mission in life to tell the world just
how horrible this bike is, all based on two facts: how much it costs,
and you've never even seen one.
We know you don't like the bike. We know you think it's too
expensive. We know you've never seen or ridden one. What we *don't*
know, is why you keep beating this poor dead horse.
If the BigHA is as lousy as you *believe* it is, completely without
any personal, first-hand knowledge, guess what: it'll fail. People who
ride it will decide that, for one reason or another, it's not for them.
I suspect that they'll come to that decision based on their actual
experiences with the bike, and not because you keep telling them how
horrible it is.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people need someone like you to tell them
all about a bike you've never seen nor ridden, so that they'll know
whether or not to buy one.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> The EZ-1 SC cost is one sixth that of the Bigha. Is the Bigha six
>>>> times better? The RANS Fusion cost is almost one forth that of the
>>>> Bigha. Is the Bigha four times better? There are still a lot of slow
>>>> heavy comfort bents around for a fraction of the Bigha. But if you
>>>> are going to pay that much, why go slow? The Bigha costs more then
>>>> the Vision VR65, Tour Easy or Lighting P38. Is the Bigha better then
>>>> any of these? You can get a Greenspeed GTR for the same cost as a
>>>> Bigha. Is the Bigha as good?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Those questions can be answered (and asked) by everyone, of course,
>>> but how credible would be the answers if the person had not ridden
>>> the bikes mentioned? Not to mention how "six times better" can be
>>> determined, whether it be related to bikes, cars, apple pie or any
>>> number of other things we can purchase.
>>> Lots of variable, lots of subjective opinions, criteria, and
>>> viewpoints, but it all comes down to one thing: if the person hasn't
>>> ridden the bikes in question, then his opinion of relative worth is
>>> nothing more than that.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Have you ridden a Bigha? If so, do you have one on order?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>
> I've already posted, several times, that I not only have never ridden
> one, I've never even seen one. And you keep telling us how horrible the
> bike is, and *you* have never seen or ridden one.
> If so, do you have one on order? No? Why not? For some strange reason
> you seem to have taken it as your mission in life to tell the world just
> how horrible this bike is, all based on two facts: how much it costs,
> and you've never even seen one.
> We know you don't like the bike. We know you think it's too expensive.
> We know you've never seen or ridden one. What we *don't* know, is why
> you keep beating this poor dead horse.
> If the BigHA is as lousy as you *believe* it is, completely without
> any personal, first-hand knowledge, guess what: it'll fail. People who
> ride it will decide that, for one reason or another, it's not for them.
> I suspect that they'll come to that decision based on their actual
> experiences with the bike, and not because you keep telling them how
> horrible it is.
> But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people need someone like you to tell them
> all about a bike you've never seen nor ridden, so that they'll know
> whether or not to buy one.
>

So why don't you have one on order?

I want to know if ANYONE with real experience riding recumbents is going
to pay $3000.00 for this bike. Someone show me that this bike is worth
buying. Surely there is someone with more money then they can spend
otherwise.

The Bigha marketing is obviously targeted at people who know nothing at
all about recumbents and little about bicycles in general, so will not
know how ridiculously overpriced it is.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Tom Thompson]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > Regards
> > Mikael
> > Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )
>
> Yes, but you will not consistently do it. But I also think Copenhagen
> is a big enough city and since it is also the capital of the country
> you probably do not need to indicate the country. Copenhagen all by
> itself would be sufficient. After all, there is no Copenhagen, USA. (I
> should look this up but I am too lazy. It will probably turn out that
> there is a Copenhagen in the USA in which case it would then be
> necessary to indicate the country no matter how big the city. For
> instance, just Moscow not followed by a country means Moscow in Idaho.
> Since there is a Moscow in the USA one would have to designate the
> other Moscow as Moscow, Russia. This does get a bit complicated but as
> long as we keep clear that the USA takes precedence over all other
> countries then it is a no-brainer.) But I think in general one need
> only indicate either city or state (country) and not both. There is no
> sense in telling people more than they want to know.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting an
international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
American BS. It's shameful.

Tom Thompson
Westland

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> "Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message >...
>
> > Regards
> > Mikael
> > Copenhagen, Denmark (Happy now, Ed? ;o) )
>
> Yes, but you will not consistently do it. But I also think Copenhagen
> is a big enough city and since it is also the capital of the country
> you probably do not need to indicate the country. Copenhagen all by
> itself would be sufficient. After all, there is no Copenhagen, USA. (I
> should look this up but I am too lazy. It will probably turn out that
> there is a Copenhagen in the USA in which case it would then be
> necessary to indicate the country no matter how big the city. For
> instance, just Moscow not followed by a country means Moscow in Idaho.
> Since there is a Moscow in the USA one would have to designate the
> other Moscow as Moscow, Russia. This does get a bit complicated but as
> long as we keep clear that the USA takes precedence over all other
> countries then it is a no-brainer.) But I think in general one need
> only indicate either city or state (country) and not both. There is no
> sense in telling people more than they want to know.

If cities with common names are assumed to be in the US, then we can
assume that all those from Toronto are actually from Toronto, Iowa.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> So why don't you have one on order?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

You seem to need to have this posted one more time, in order to
understand: I have never seen the bike. I have never ridden the bike. So
why would I have one on order?
See, there's one big difference between you and I. I do not condemn
something of which I have no first-hand knowledge. And, neither do I buy
such an item. Since you obviously feel so free to do the former, I am
surprised that you will not do the latter as well.



--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:25:07 +0100, Ian >
wrote:

>...a notable quote
>on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
>brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
>starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

It'd serve you right for eating all the chipmunks up, wouldn't it?
Made them extinct already, have you? Is that why you've switched to
organ meats from mad cows, slathered in bland gray gravy?

Bunch of gluttons...

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:25:07 +0100, Ian >
wrote:

>...a notable quote
>on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
>brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
>starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

It'd serve you right for eating all the chipmunks up, wouldn't it?
Made them extinct already, have you? Is that why you've switched to
organ meats from mad cows, slathered in bland gray gravy?

Bunch of gluttons...

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
> > The EZ-1 SC cost is one sixth that of the Bigha. Is the Bigha six times
> > better? The RANS Fusion cost is almost one forth that of the Bigha. Is
> > the Bigha four times better? There are still a lot of slow heavy comfort
> > bents around for a fraction of the Bigha. But if you are going to pay
> > that much, why go slow? The Bigha costs more then the Vision VR65, Tour
> > Easy or Lighting P38. Is the Bigha better then any of these? You can get
> > a Greenspeed GTR for the same cost as a Bigha. Is the Bigha as good?
> >
>
> Those questions can be answered (and asked) by everyone, of course,
> but how credible would be the answers if the person had not ridden the
> bikes mentioned? Not to mention how "six times better" can be
> determined, whether it be related to bikes, cars, apple pie or any
> number of other things we can purchase.
> Lots of variable, lots of subjective opinions, criteria, and
> viewpoints, but it all comes down to one thing: if the person hasn't
> ridden the bikes in question, then his opinion of relative worth is
> nothing more than that.

One does not need hands-on experience of a thing in order to determine
it's relative worth or value. A child is capable of doing it based on
a few facts about the thing. As usual you are off in the wilderness
considering complexities which don't exist. But this is what can
happen to anyone when they are bereft of common sense. Mr. Love is
right to stick on the main point, which is the $3000. in conjunction
with a few known facts about the bike, and not let himself be
distracted by all the asides of the gnat brigade. How you can take
issue with what was said above defies logic. But then you always could
take issue with someone over nothing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> skip wrote:
> > For me, I'll take a Tailwind thank you.
> > Good night Bob Cardone where ever you are.
>
> The RANS Rocket and Tailwind are still arguably the best recumbent
> values out there, especially since the crank and BB have been upgraded
> from the Dotek and Shimano LP-37 [1].

Another extremely rare point of agreement with Mr. Sherman. I too
think the RANS Tailwind is one of the better designed recumbents on
the market at a very good value. These points of agreement with Mr.
Sherman are so rare that they need to be recorded for posterity, or at
least acknowledged, which is why I am posting here.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Thompson" > wrote in message >...

> What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
> would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting an
> international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
> American BS. It's shameful.
>
> Tom Thompson
> Westland

One of my best trolls ever and this guy with a double name composed of
Toms falls for it like a ton of bricks. Thanks for making my day Mr.
Unmitigated Crap. But you did not listen to what I had to say. What
and where is Westland or is it Wasteland? State? Country? But if you
don't care why should I?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Ian]

Tom Thompson must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
> would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting an
> international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
> American BS. It's shameful.
>
> Tom Thompson
> Westland
>
>
Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

Ian

[Ian]

Tom Thompson must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
> would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting an
> international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
> American BS. It's shameful.
>
> Tom Thompson
> Westland
>
>
Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

Ian

[Mikael Seierup]

"Ian" skrev...
> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)

Mikael

[Mikael Seierup]

"Ian" skrev...
> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)

Mikael

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" skrev...
>> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
>> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
>> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
>> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
>> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
>> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.
>
> Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)
>
> Mikael

Mikael,

If I could get them, I would eat them all the time.

Ian

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" skrev...
>> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
>> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
>> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
>> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
>> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
>> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.
>
> Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)
>
> Mikael

Mikael,

If I could get them, I would eat them all the time.

Ian

[Steve McDonald]

RE: Furry items on the menu:

The English restaurants tell you they're chipmunks, but we know
what they really are.

"An epicure, dining at Crewe,
found a large rat in his stew.
The waiter cried out, 'Please,
don't shout and show it about,
or the rest will be wanting one too!"

Steve McDonald

[Steve McDonald]

RE: Furry items on the menu:

The English restaurants tell you they're chipmunks, but we know
what they really are.

"An epicure, dining at Crewe,
found a large rat in his stew.
The waiter cried out, 'Please,
don't shout and show it about,
or the rest will be wanting one too!"

Steve McDonald

[Tom Thompson]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
m...
> "Tom Thompson" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
> > would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting
an
> > international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
> > American BS. It's shameful.
> >
> > Tom Thompson
> > Westland
>
> One of my best trolls ever and this guy with a double name composed of
> Toms falls for it like a ton of bricks. Thanks for making my day Mr.
> Unmitigated Crap. But you did not listen to what I had to say. What
> and where is Westland or is it Wasteland? State? Country? But if you
> don't care why should I?
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

This from someone who says that they always write exactly what they think?
You are not capable of trolling.

It's too much fun tweaking you. Making fun of my name is something most
people grow out of by abut age 13 or so. That leads me to believe that you
are going to be easy.

As for whether or not I care where Westland is, that's an assumption on your
part. Not accurate though. Here, I'll give you another hint.....

Tom Thompson - Earth

[Tom Thompson]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
m...
> "Tom Thompson" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > What unmitigated crap! Anyone with any sense of the world beyond the USA
> > would think "Russia" when hearing "Moscow". If you insist in frequenting
an
> > international forum, you should at least drop this holier-than-thou Ugly
> > American BS. It's shameful.
> >
> > Tom Thompson
> > Westland
>
> One of my best trolls ever and this guy with a double name composed of
> Toms falls for it like a ton of bricks. Thanks for making my day Mr.
> Unmitigated Crap. But you did not listen to what I had to say. What
> and where is Westland or is it Wasteland? State? Country? But if you
> don't care why should I?
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

This from someone who says that they always write exactly what they think?
You are not capable of trolling.

It's too much fun tweaking you. Making fun of my name is something most
people grow out of by abut age 13 or so. That leads me to believe that you
are going to be easy.

As for whether or not I care where Westland is, that's an assumption on your
part. Not accurate though. Here, I'll give you another hint.....

Tom Thompson - Earth

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> So why don't you have one on order?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>
>> You seem to need to have this posted one more time, in order to
>> understand: I have never seen the bike. I have never ridden the bike.
>> So why would I have one on order?
>> See, there's one big difference between you and I. I do not condemn
>> something of which I have no first-hand knowledge. And, neither do I
>> buy such an item. Since you obviously feel so free to do the former, I
>> am surprised that you will not do the latter as well.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So why are you so rabidly defending a bike about which you know nothing
> other then it being a low performance bike costing several times as much
> as other bikes in it's class and more then many high performance bikes?
> If it's so great, why don't you have one? Maybe because it costs an
> insane amount?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

I am not defending the bike at all. I have said nothing in favor of
it, I have not described any feature as being good, nothing that could
possibly be considered defending it, nor saying that it's "so great".
What I have been saying, and you keep ignoring, is that opinions
about a bike that you (or I, or anyone) have had literally no physical
contact with, are pretty much worthless.
If I were to attack the food of a far-away restaurant as being awful,
the service just terrible, the waiters so rude - how valid would that
attack be, if I had never been there? And if someone were to point out
the weakness in my attack, would they be, as you put it, saying that the
restaurant was "so great"?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> So why don't you have one on order?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>
>> You seem to need to have this posted one more time, in order to
>> understand: I have never seen the bike. I have never ridden the bike.
>> So why would I have one on order?
>> See, there's one big difference between you and I. I do not condemn
>> something of which I have no first-hand knowledge. And, neither do I
>> buy such an item. Since you obviously feel so free to do the former, I
>> am surprised that you will not do the latter as well.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So why are you so rabidly defending a bike about which you know nothing
> other then it being a low performance bike costing several times as much
> as other bikes in it's class and more then many high performance bikes?
> If it's so great, why don't you have one? Maybe because it costs an
> insane amount?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

I am not defending the bike at all. I have said nothing in favor of
it, I have not described any feature as being good, nothing that could
possibly be considered defending it, nor saying that it's "so great".
What I have been saying, and you keep ignoring, is that opinions
about a bike that you (or I, or anyone) have had literally no physical
contact with, are pretty much worthless.
If I were to attack the food of a far-away restaurant as being awful,
the service just terrible, the waiters so rude - how valid would that
attack be, if I had never been there? And if someone were to point out
the weakness in my attack, would they be, as you put it, saying that the
restaurant was "so great"?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Your faith in hands-on experience is like that of a child, a dumb
> child, who has to see and touch in order to believe. Those of us with
> some level and ability to think abstractly do not need such
> "realities". Our thinking has progressed to a level which you can
> scarcely comprehend let alone respond to.
>
> Mr. Love pointed out to even one so deaf and dumb as yourself the
> comparative values of the different bikes based on price. Everyone in
> this newsgroup knows what he is talking about with respect to these
> various bikes except you. The main point was and is the $3000., but
> only someone as dense as you would somehow think something else was at
> issue. Like you said, and like I said before you, there is no
> complexity here. But how to get you to focus on the one simple thing
> is the ever continuing issue.
>
> But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> responding to. Note my example and follow.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.

This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
certainly helps.
Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
"correct".
But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Your faith in hands-on experience is like that of a child, a dumb
> child, who has to see and touch in order to believe. Those of us with
> some level and ability to think abstractly do not need such
> "realities". Our thinking has progressed to a level which you can
> scarcely comprehend let alone respond to.
>
> Mr. Love pointed out to even one so deaf and dumb as yourself the
> comparative values of the different bikes based on price. Everyone in
> this newsgroup knows what he is talking about with respect to these
> various bikes except you. The main point was and is the $3000., but
> only someone as dense as you would somehow think something else was at
> issue. Like you said, and like I said before you, there is no
> complexity here. But how to get you to focus on the one simple thing
> is the ever continuing issue.
>
> But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> responding to. Note my example and follow.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.

This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
certainly helps.
Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
"correct".
But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Bill Hamilton]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in
om:

> Tom Sherman > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> If cities with common names are assumed to be in the US, then we can
>> assume that all those from Toronto are actually from Toronto, Iowa.
>>
>> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
>
> Yes, Tom, you have finally fully understood one of my posts. I knew
> that if I explained it in sufficient detail that even you would grasp
> it. And let's hear it for Toronto, the one in Iowa - not that one in
> Canada that Mr. Goldberg is from. That one is a sink of iniquity where
> cyclists get shot in the head with pellet guns. I never heard of that
> happening in Toronto - the one in Iowa that is.

I've never heard of anything whatsoever happening in Toronto, IA. Thus, if
someone mentions Toronto, I think of the one in Canada. The one you'd
expect to see on a continental map.


-Bill Hamilton, Earth

[Bill Hamilton]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in
om:

> Tom Sherman > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> If cities with common names are assumed to be in the US, then we can
>> assume that all those from Toronto are actually from Toronto, Iowa.
>>
>> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
>
> Yes, Tom, you have finally fully understood one of my posts. I knew
> that if I explained it in sufficient detail that even you would grasp
> it. And let's hear it for Toronto, the one in Iowa - not that one in
> Canada that Mr. Goldberg is from. That one is a sink of iniquity where
> cyclists get shot in the head with pellet guns. I never heard of that
> happening in Toronto - the one in Iowa that is.

I've never heard of anything whatsoever happening in Toronto, IA. Thus, if
someone mentions Toronto, I think of the one in Canada. The one you'd
expect to see on a continental map.


-Bill Hamilton, Earth

[Tom Thompson]

"Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
s.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:25:07 +0100, Ian >
> wrote:
>
> >...a notable quote
> >on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> >brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> >starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.
>
> It'd serve you right for eating all the chipmunks up, wouldn't it?
> Made them extinct already, have you? Is that why you've switched to
> organ meats from mad cows, slathered in bland gray gravy?
>
> Bunch of gluttons...

After my first experience with potted meat in London, I was sure that no
animal could have contributed to its making. This fish, however, was
wonderfulk.

Tom Thompson

[Tom Thompson]

"Zippy the Pinhead" > wrote in message
s.com...
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:25:07 +0100, Ian >
> wrote:
>
> >...a notable quote
> >on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> >brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> >starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.
>
> It'd serve you right for eating all the chipmunks up, wouldn't it?
> Made them extinct already, have you? Is that why you've switched to
> organ meats from mad cows, slathered in bland gray gravy?
>
> Bunch of gluttons...

After my first experience with potted meat in London, I was sure that no
animal could have contributed to its making. This fish, however, was
wonderfulk.

Tom Thompson

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
>
> > If cities with common names are assumed to be in the US, then we can
> > assume that all those from Toronto are actually from Toronto, Iowa.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
>
> Yes, Tom, you have finally fully understood one of my posts. I knew
> that if I explained it in sufficient detail that even you would grasp
> it. And let's hear it for Toronto, the one in Iowa - not that one in
> Canada that Mr. Goldberg is from. That one is a sink of iniquity where
> cyclists get shot in the head with pellet guns. I never heard of that
> happening in Toronto - the one in Iowa that is.

Mr. Dolan,

You should have realized in the past when I posted about riding in
Havana, I meant Havana, IL and not Havana, Cuba.

Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
>
> > If cities with common names are assumed to be in the US, then we can
> > assume that all those from Toronto are actually from Toronto, Iowa.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
>
> Yes, Tom, you have finally fully understood one of my posts. I knew
> that if I explained it in sufficient detail that even you would grasp
> it. And let's hear it for Toronto, the one in Iowa - not that one in
> Canada that Mr. Goldberg is from. That one is a sink of iniquity where
> cyclists get shot in the head with pellet guns. I never heard of that
> happening in Toronto - the one in Iowa that is.

Mr. Dolan,

You should have realized in the past when I posted about riding in
Havana, I meant Havana, IL and not Havana, Cuba.

Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

[Jay Ault]

How can I possibly pay for a trip to Europe with my SUV payment? Not
to mention the cost of a fill-up. The US$ is down and I'm lusting for
a BigHa.

Jay,
A Southern American

[Jay Ault]

How can I possibly pay for a trip to Europe with my SUV payment? Not
to mention the cost of a fill-up. The US$ is down and I'm lusting for
a BigHa.

Jay,
A Southern American

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> So why don't you have one on order?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to need to have this posted one more time, in order to
>>> understand: I have never seen the bike. I have never ridden the bike.
>>> So why would I have one on order?
>>> See, there's one big difference between you and I. I do not condemn
>>> something of which I have no first-hand knowledge. And, neither do I
>>> buy such an item. Since you obviously feel so free to do the former,
>>> I am surprised that you will not do the latter as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So why are you so rabidly defending a bike about which you know
>> nothing other then it being a low performance bike costing several
>> times as much as other bikes in it's class and more then many high
>> performance bikes? If it's so great, why don't you have one? Maybe
>> because it costs an insane amount?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> I am not defending the bike at all. I have said nothing in favor of
> it, I have not described any feature as being good, nothing that could
> possibly be considered defending it, nor saying that it's "so great".
> What I have been saying, and you keep ignoring, is that opinions about
> a bike that you (or I, or anyone) have had literally no physical contact
> with, are pretty much worthless.
> If I were to attack the food of a far-away restaurant as being awful,
> the service just terrible, the waiters so rude - how valid would that
> attack be, if I had never been there? And if someone were to point out
> the weakness in my attack, would they be, as you put it, saying that the
> restaurant was "so great"?
>

And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There is
nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but it
cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are continually
defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of it's insane
price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to non-bicyclists precisely
because no one with real experience with bicycles of this type would pay
this price, not even you. Prove me wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me
it's worth the price. Put your money where your mouth is.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> So why don't you have one on order?
>>>>
>>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to need to have this posted one more time, in order to
>>> understand: I have never seen the bike. I have never ridden the bike.
>>> So why would I have one on order?
>>> See, there's one big difference between you and I. I do not condemn
>>> something of which I have no first-hand knowledge. And, neither do I
>>> buy such an item. Since you obviously feel so free to do the former,
>>> I am surprised that you will not do the latter as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So why are you so rabidly defending a bike about which you know
>> nothing other then it being a low performance bike costing several
>> times as much as other bikes in it's class and more then many high
>> performance bikes? If it's so great, why don't you have one? Maybe
>> because it costs an insane amount?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> I am not defending the bike at all. I have said nothing in favor of
> it, I have not described any feature as being good, nothing that could
> possibly be considered defending it, nor saying that it's "so great".
> What I have been saying, and you keep ignoring, is that opinions about
> a bike that you (or I, or anyone) have had literally no physical contact
> with, are pretty much worthless.
> If I were to attack the food of a far-away restaurant as being awful,
> the service just terrible, the waiters so rude - how valid would that
> attack be, if I had never been there? And if someone were to point out
> the weakness in my attack, would they be, as you put it, saying that the
> restaurant was "so great"?
>

And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There is
nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but it
cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are continually
defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of it's insane
price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to non-bicyclists precisely
because no one with real experience with bicycles of this type would pay
this price, not even you. Prove me wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me
it's worth the price. Put your money where your mouth is.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
> having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There is
> nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but it
> cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are continually
> defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of it's insane
> price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to non-bicyclists precisely
> because no one with real experience with bicycles of this type would pay
> this price, not even you. Prove me wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me
> it's worth the price. Put your money where your mouth is.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its purchase,
or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being worth the
money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you in
better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
> having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There is
> nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but it
> cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are continually
> defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of it's insane
> price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to non-bicyclists precisely
> because no one with real experience with bicycles of this type would pay
> this price, not even you. Prove me wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me
> it's worth the price. Put your money where your mouth is.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its purchase,
or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being worth the
money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you in
better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Edward Wong]

> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>
> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
> in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
> the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
> opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
> instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
> who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
> but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
> much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
> and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
> have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
> experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
> certainly helps.
> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
> money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
> the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
> others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
> "correct".
> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
> out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
> total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
> couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
> bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

Larry:

I think your response is logical and reasonable. To formulate an
opinion about any product without first hand experience is "dust in
the wind". One cannot place a value on the product without it and
make an informed buying decision.

This reminds me of a topic started by Tom Blum several months ago
where he had talked to a couple of young ladies who were riding high
end road bikes. He was "taken" by the price these women had paid for
these bikes and their response was "and worth every penny". The bikes
were over $6,000.00 each! I imagine there are those in a.r.b.r. that
would'nt ride a high end road bike even if you paid them and yet these
women probably didn't bat an eye when they laid that plastic on the
counter at the LBS.

Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
"slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
"apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
website and make their "decrees".

If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!

My two cents:-)

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Edward Wong]

> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>
> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
> in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
> the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
> opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
> instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
> who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
> but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
> much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
> and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
> have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
> experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
> certainly helps.
> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
> money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
> the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
> others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
> "correct".
> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
> out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
> total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
> couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
> bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

Larry:

I think your response is logical and reasonable. To formulate an
opinion about any product without first hand experience is "dust in
the wind". One cannot place a value on the product without it and
make an informed buying decision.

This reminds me of a topic started by Tom Blum several months ago
where he had talked to a couple of young ladies who were riding high
end road bikes. He was "taken" by the price these women had paid for
these bikes and their response was "and worth every penny". The bikes
were over $6,000.00 each! I imagine there are those in a.r.b.r. that
would'nt ride a high end road bike even if you paid them and yet these
women probably didn't bat an eye when they laid that plastic on the
counter at the LBS.

Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
"slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
"apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
website and make their "decrees".

If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!

My two cents:-)

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How many slow, 50 pound bikes cost $3000.00?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>
>>
>>
>> Beats me. You might want to check RCN. It has a listing each year of
>> pretty much all of the recumbent bikes and trikes made, along with
>> their prices. I don't recall a column indicating the speed, though.
>> Since it's not a fixed attribute, that could be why.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
> slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I love it when people alter what they've said, even while having the
evidence of that alteration right in front of them. My response was to
knowing the number ("how many"), not did I know of any. So, that "know
of none" makes little sense. If you want to know what I actually wrote,
and what it was in response to, read it. You quoted it.
You keep saying that the bike is slow. Honestly, it's the engine that
makes a bike slow. Sure, aerodynamics, choice of tires, and so on play a
part in how fast a bike can be ridden. But the major factor is the engine.
But you may have a point, regarding the BigHA. How slow is it? Can
you tell us how fast it can be ridden in mph? Price is one thing: that
can be found on the company's website. But did they list a maximum speed
as well? Or is this another fact you came up with when you didn't see
nor ride the bike?
Or is this another of your "I didn't think so" facts? Talk is cheap,
and seldom makes up for lack of experience.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How many slow, 50 pound bikes cost $3000.00?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>
>>
>>
>> Beats me. You might want to check RCN. It has a listing each year of
>> pretty much all of the recumbent bikes and trikes made, along with
>> their prices. I don't recall a column indicating the speed, though.
>> Since it's not a fixed attribute, that could be why.
>>
>>
>>
>
> So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
> slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

I love it when people alter what they've said, even while having the
evidence of that alteration right in front of them. My response was to
knowing the number ("how many"), not did I know of any. So, that "know
of none" makes little sense. If you want to know what I actually wrote,
and what it was in response to, read it. You quoted it.
You keep saying that the bike is slow. Honestly, it's the engine that
makes a bike slow. Sure, aerodynamics, choice of tires, and so on play a
part in how fast a bike can be ridden. But the major factor is the engine.
But you may have a point, regarding the BigHA. How slow is it? Can
you tell us how fast it can be ridden in mph? Price is one thing: that
can be found on the company's website. But did they list a maximum speed
as well? Or is this another fact you came up with when you didn't see
nor ride the bike?
Or is this another of your "I didn't think so" facts? Talk is cheap,
and seldom makes up for lack of experience.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
>> having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There
>> is nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but
>> it cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are
>> continually defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of
>> it's insane price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to
>> non-bicyclists precisely because no one with real experience with
>> bicycles of this type would pay this price, not even you. Prove me
>> wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me it's worth the price. Put your
>> money where your mouth is.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its purchase,
> or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being worth the
> money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that I'm
> defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you in
> better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?
>
>
>
>

I think the gentleman dost protest too much.

Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
Oscar Wilde

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> And just where have I said that the Bigha was so terrible other then
>> having a grossly inflated price for such a heavy and slow bike? There
>> is nothing wrong with slow and heavy bikes, I ride one every day, but
>> it cost only one fifth what a Bigha does. Meanwhile, you are
>> continually defending a bicycle that you would never buy because of
>> it's insane price. Bigha has chosen to market their bike to
>> non-bicyclists precisely because no one with real experience with
>> bicycles of this type would pay this price, not even you. Prove me
>> wrong, buy a Bigha and then tell me it's worth the price. Put your
>> money where your mouth is.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its purchase,
> or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being worth the
> money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that I'm
> defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you in
> better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?
>
>
>
>

I think the gentleman dost protest too much.

Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
Oscar Wilde

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>>
>> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
>>in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
>>the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
>>opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
>>instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
>>who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
>>but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
>> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
>>much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
>>and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
>>have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
>>experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
>>certainly helps.
>> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
>>money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
>>the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
>> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
>>others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
>>"correct".
>> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
>>out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
>>total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
>>couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
>> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
>>bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?
>
>
> Larry:
>
> I think your response is logical and reasonable. To formulate an
> opinion about any product without first hand experience is "dust in
> the wind". One cannot place a value on the product without it and
> make an informed buying decision.
>
> This reminds me of a topic started by Tom Blum several months ago
> where he had talked to a couple of young ladies who were riding high
> end road bikes. He was "taken" by the price these women had paid for
> these bikes and their response was "and worth every penny". The bikes
> were over $6,000.00 each! I imagine there are those in a.r.b.r. that
> would'nt ride a high end road bike even if you paid them and yet these
> women probably didn't bat an eye when they laid that plastic on the
> counter at the LBS.
>
> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
> website and make their "decrees".
>
> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>
> My two cents:-)
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
and still have a couple thousand left over.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>>
>> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
>>in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
>>the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
>>opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
>>instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
>>who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
>>but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
>> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
>>much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
>>and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
>>have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
>>experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
>>certainly helps.
>> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
>>money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
>>the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
>> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
>>others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
>>"correct".
>> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
>>out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
>>total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
>>couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
>> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
>>bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?
>
>
> Larry:
>
> I think your response is logical and reasonable. To formulate an
> opinion about any product without first hand experience is "dust in
> the wind". One cannot place a value on the product without it and
> make an informed buying decision.
>
> This reminds me of a topic started by Tom Blum several months ago
> where he had talked to a couple of young ladies who were riding high
> end road bikes. He was "taken" by the price these women had paid for
> these bikes and their response was "and worth every penny". The bikes
> were over $6,000.00 each! I imagine there are those in a.r.b.r. that
> would'nt ride a high end road bike even if you paid them and yet these
> women probably didn't bat an eye when they laid that plastic on the
> counter at the LBS.
>
> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
> website and make their "decrees".
>
> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>
> My two cents:-)
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
and still have a couple thousand left over.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Edward Wong]

> So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
> slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Before I begin, take your own advice from your signature line above.

Bryan J. Ball indicated that this is the first bike of it's kind in
that price range so there is no comparable. On the other hand, there
is no bike in any price range or wheelbase configuration that is like
the BiGHA. There are however other recumbent/HPV's that sell for far
more money, are heavier and most probably slower than the BiGHa.
Leitras, Lightfoot trikes, velomobiles and the like. And the owners
of these machines will defend their buying decision like a rabid
pitbull so I would get on their bad side if I were you.

Bryan never said that the BiGHa is "slow". He said it's performance
was "tolerable". Coming from Bryan who is a high performance rider
(and former racer) it is not a surprise to hear that remark from him.
"Tolerable" for him and others like him may mean "good" to "great" for
the rest of us of which you are one. He did call it "heavy". Again,
consider the source (no offense Bryan:-) He calls anything that
weighs more than 30 pounds heavy no matter what kind of bike it is.
In closing this paragraph, one gentleman posted on BROL's board that
he found the BiGHa to be a better performer than the BikeE.

It is pointless Mr. Love to argue about price as an indicator of
speed/performance. There is no bicycle at any price point that is
three or four times better than the next. That's not the way it works
for in order to create a product that is say 10% better requires more
dedication, heavier workload, longer production times and other
unforeseen elements that us outsiders have no idea. This is what
determines the price differencial between similiar products given that
all other factors are equal.

In closing this post, you might as well make a hobby of attacking
bikes based on price. With the introduction of the Actionbent ($645)
and the upcoming introduction of Sun's new SWB (less than $1K), does
it make sense to you for people to spend two to three times more for a
bike that performs similiarly and has equal to almost equal level
components? Go ahead...attack away and don't forget to put on your
flamesuit.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Edward Wong]

> So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
> slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Before I begin, take your own advice from your signature line above.

Bryan J. Ball indicated that this is the first bike of it's kind in
that price range so there is no comparable. On the other hand, there
is no bike in any price range or wheelbase configuration that is like
the BiGHA. There are however other recumbent/HPV's that sell for far
more money, are heavier and most probably slower than the BiGHa.
Leitras, Lightfoot trikes, velomobiles and the like. And the owners
of these machines will defend their buying decision like a rabid
pitbull so I would get on their bad side if I were you.

Bryan never said that the BiGHa is "slow". He said it's performance
was "tolerable". Coming from Bryan who is a high performance rider
(and former racer) it is not a surprise to hear that remark from him.
"Tolerable" for him and others like him may mean "good" to "great" for
the rest of us of which you are one. He did call it "heavy". Again,
consider the source (no offense Bryan:-) He calls anything that
weighs more than 30 pounds heavy no matter what kind of bike it is.
In closing this paragraph, one gentleman posted on BROL's board that
he found the BiGHa to be a better performer than the BikeE.

It is pointless Mr. Love to argue about price as an indicator of
speed/performance. There is no bicycle at any price point that is
three or four times better than the next. That's not the way it works
for in order to create a product that is say 10% better requires more
dedication, heavier workload, longer production times and other
unforeseen elements that us outsiders have no idea. This is what
determines the price differencial between similiar products given that
all other factors are equal.

In closing this post, you might as well make a hobby of attacking
bikes based on price. With the introduction of the Actionbent ($645)
and the upcoming introduction of Sun's new SWB (less than $1K), does
it make sense to you for people to spend two to three times more for a
bike that performs similiarly and has equal to almost equal level
components? Go ahead...attack away and don't forget to put on your
flamesuit.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Larry Varney]

Edward Wong wrote:
<snip>
> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
> website and make their "decrees".
>
> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>
> My two cents:-)
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL
>

There's just so much more to a bike than mere weight and price. Sure,
if I were looking for a racing bike, especially one where I'd be doing
lots of climbing, weight would assume more importance. But for touring,
it's less so.
If I heard that such-and-such bike weighs 10 - 20 pounds more than
another that seems like it should be similar, the first thing I'd want
to know is: what's on that bike that added the weight? Is it just the
way it's built, as in thicker and stiffer frame, forks, etc.? How about
components? Does it come with fenders? All of these things add weight,
of course, but possibly the result is a better bike than the lighter
one. Better as in, what someone might want to do with it.
And that's where it comes down to having to actually see and ride the
bike, if at all possible. It might turn out that the weight matters
little in comparison with all the other features of the bike. Or, it may
just be a ton of pure garbage. But the only way of finding out for sure
is to see and (hopefully) ride the bike.
I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHA in the flesh. I suspect that I
won't really want one, since all of my biking niches are filled - my TE
does the job when I want a faster ride, and now I have a Speed to
complement my GTO. If I ever start doing a lot of air travel again, I'll
probably buy another Bike Friday SatRDay, but right now I'm pretty
satisfied with what I've got.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Wong wrote:
<snip>
> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
> website and make their "decrees".
>
> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>
> My two cents:-)
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL
>

There's just so much more to a bike than mere weight and price. Sure,
if I were looking for a racing bike, especially one where I'd be doing
lots of climbing, weight would assume more importance. But for touring,
it's less so.
If I heard that such-and-such bike weighs 10 - 20 pounds more than
another that seems like it should be similar, the first thing I'd want
to know is: what's on that bike that added the weight? Is it just the
way it's built, as in thicker and stiffer frame, forks, etc.? How about
components? Does it come with fenders? All of these things add weight,
of course, but possibly the result is a better bike than the lighter
one. Better as in, what someone might want to do with it.
And that's where it comes down to having to actually see and ride the
bike, if at all possible. It might turn out that the weight matters
little in comparison with all the other features of the bike. Or, it may
just be a ton of pure garbage. But the only way of finding out for sure
is to see and (hopefully) ride the bike.
I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHA in the flesh. I suspect that I
won't really want one, since all of my biking niches are filled - my TE
does the job when I want a faster ride, and now I have a Speed to
complement my GTO. If I ever start doing a lot of air travel again, I'll
probably buy another Bike Friday SatRDay, but right now I'm pretty
satisfied with what I've got.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

>> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
>> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
>> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
>> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its
>> purchase, or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being
>> worth the money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
>> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
>> I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you
>> in better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think the gentleman dost protest too much.
>
> Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?
>
> I didn't think so.
>

Can someone else step up and explain this simple concept to Lorenzo?
And let's see if he asks you a question and then responds to your
response before it even arrives.
Lorenzo, can you understand simple English? I didn't think so.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

>> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
>> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
>> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
>> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its
>> purchase, or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being
>> worth the money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
>> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
>> I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you
>> in better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think the gentleman dost protest too much.
>
> Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?
>
> I didn't think so.
>

Can someone else step up and explain this simple concept to Lorenzo?
And let's see if he asks you a question and then responds to your
response before it even arrives.
Lorenzo, can you understand simple English? I didn't think so.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
> such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
> and still have a couple thousand left over.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

What class it the bike in? On what basis do you say it is overpriced?
What are you comparing it to? Is it simply a matter of pounds per
dollar? There are quite a few bikes out there that cost much more. Does
this make the BigHA a better deal than them? Or are they not in the same
class?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
> such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
> and still have a couple thousand left over.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

What class it the bike in? On what basis do you say it is overpriced?
What are you comparing it to? Is it simply a matter of pounds per
dollar? There are quite a few bikes out there that cost much more. Does
this make the BigHA a better deal than them? Or are they not in the same
class?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as
> the Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about
> half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or
> the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell us if the
> Bigha is a fast as any bike in it's price range? I didn't think so.
>
> Now tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes that cost $3000.00.
> Can't? I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

Is you sole criteria as to worth the speed of a bike? And can you
stop responding before I've even answered?
How do you feel about bikes that weigh more than 50 pounds and cost
more than $3000? How about trikes? How does the BigHA rate in comparison
to a 70 pound trike tandem that goes for more than twice its cost? Do
you now think the BigHA is a great deal?






--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as
> the Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about
> half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or
> the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell us if the
> Bigha is a fast as any bike in it's price range? I didn't think so.
>
> Now tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes that cost $3000.00.
> Can't? I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

Is you sole criteria as to worth the speed of a bike? And can you
stop responding before I've even answered?
How do you feel about bikes that weigh more than 50 pounds and cost
more than $3000? How about trikes? How does the BigHA rate in comparison
to a 70 pound trike tandem that goes for more than twice its cost? Do
you now think the BigHA is a great deal?






--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Mike O'Brien]

> Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

(I know you are but what am I?)

children, chiklren...go to your rooms and come back when you grow up.

Regards,

Mike O'Brien

Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck.
Only a damn fool would rely on it...



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003

[Mike O'Brien]

> Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

(I know you are but what am I?)

children, chiklren...go to your rooms and come back when you grow up.

Regards,

Mike O'Brien

Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck.
Only a damn fool would rely on it...



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003

[Edward Wong]

> But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
> such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
> and still have a couple thousand left over.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

That's your issue Lorenzo. You CAN'T afford it either. Show me a
similiar bike with ALL the features, quality, etc. for 2 grand less
and I'll show you some oceanfront property in Death Valley I'd like to
sell you very cheap!

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Edward Wong]

> But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
> such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
> and still have a couple thousand left over.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

That's your issue Lorenzo. You CAN'T afford it either. Show me a
similiar bike with ALL the features, quality, etc. for 2 grand less
and I'll show you some oceanfront property in Death Valley I'd like to
sell you very cheap!

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
>>slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>>
>>I didn't think so.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Before I begin, take your own advice from your signature line above.
>
> Bryan J. Ball indicated that this is the first bike of it's kind in
> that price range so there is no comparable. On the other hand, there
> is no bike in any price range or wheelbase configuration that is like
> the BiGHA. There are however other recumbent/HPV's that sell for far
> more money, are heavier and most probably slower than the BiGHa.
> Leitras, Lightfoot trikes, velomobiles and the like. And the owners
> of these machines will defend their buying decision like a rabid
> pitbull so I would get on their bad side if I were you.
>
> Bryan never said that the BiGHa is "slow". He said it's performance
> was "tolerable". Coming from Bryan who is a high performance rider
> (and former racer) it is not a surprise to hear that remark from him.
> "Tolerable" for him and others like him may mean "good" to "great" for
> the rest of us of which you are one. He did call it "heavy". Again,
> consider the source (no offense Bryan:-) He calls anything that
> weighs more than 30 pounds heavy no matter what kind of bike it is.
> In closing this paragraph, one gentleman posted on BROL's board that
> he found the BiGHa to be a better performer than the BikeE.
>
> It is pointless Mr. Love to argue about price as an indicator of
> speed/performance. There is no bicycle at any price point that is
> three or four times better than the next. That's not the way it works
> for in order to create a product that is say 10% better requires more
> dedication, heavier workload, longer production times and other
> unforeseen elements that us outsiders have no idea. This is what
> determines the price differencial between similiar products given that
> all other factors are equal.
>
> In closing this post, you might as well make a hobby of attacking
> bikes based on price. With the introduction of the Actionbent ($645)
> and the upcoming introduction of Sun's new SWB (less than $1K), does
> it make sense to you for people to spend two to three times more for a
> bike that performs similiarly and has equal to almost equal level
> components? Go ahead...attack away and don't forget to put on your
> flamesuit.
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Comparing the Bigha to trikes and velomobiles is really grasping at
straws. Why not compare it to automobiles, aircraft or the space
shuttle? It compares favorably in price to them, so what if they are not
the same type of vehicle.

As for it being slow, I'll ask again: Do you think that for any given
rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision VR50 at about half
the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy
Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about
half the price?

The new bikes you cite makes the Bigha even more ridiculously
overpriced. Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?

No?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>So you know of none. I know of none. Does anyone know of a 50 pound,
>>slow bike similar to the Bigha that sells for $3000.00?
>>
>>I didn't think so.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Before I begin, take your own advice from your signature line above.
>
> Bryan J. Ball indicated that this is the first bike of it's kind in
> that price range so there is no comparable. On the other hand, there
> is no bike in any price range or wheelbase configuration that is like
> the BiGHA. There are however other recumbent/HPV's that sell for far
> more money, are heavier and most probably slower than the BiGHa.
> Leitras, Lightfoot trikes, velomobiles and the like. And the owners
> of these machines will defend their buying decision like a rabid
> pitbull so I would get on their bad side if I were you.
>
> Bryan never said that the BiGHa is "slow". He said it's performance
> was "tolerable". Coming from Bryan who is a high performance rider
> (and former racer) it is not a surprise to hear that remark from him.
> "Tolerable" for him and others like him may mean "good" to "great" for
> the rest of us of which you are one. He did call it "heavy". Again,
> consider the source (no offense Bryan:-) He calls anything that
> weighs more than 30 pounds heavy no matter what kind of bike it is.
> In closing this paragraph, one gentleman posted on BROL's board that
> he found the BiGHa to be a better performer than the BikeE.
>
> It is pointless Mr. Love to argue about price as an indicator of
> speed/performance. There is no bicycle at any price point that is
> three or four times better than the next. That's not the way it works
> for in order to create a product that is say 10% better requires more
> dedication, heavier workload, longer production times and other
> unforeseen elements that us outsiders have no idea. This is what
> determines the price differencial between similiar products given that
> all other factors are equal.
>
> In closing this post, you might as well make a hobby of attacking
> bikes based on price. With the introduction of the Actionbent ($645)
> and the upcoming introduction of Sun's new SWB (less than $1K), does
> it make sense to you for people to spend two to three times more for a
> bike that performs similiarly and has equal to almost equal level
> components? Go ahead...attack away and don't forget to put on your
> flamesuit.
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Comparing the Bigha to trikes and velomobiles is really grasping at
straws. Why not compare it to automobiles, aircraft or the space
shuttle? It compares favorably in price to them, so what if they are not
the same type of vehicle.

As for it being slow, I'll ask again: Do you think that for any given
rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision VR50 at about half
the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy
Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about
half the price?

The new bikes you cite makes the Bigha even more ridiculously
overpriced. Would you pay $3000.00 for this bike?

No?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Edward Wong wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
>> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
>> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
>> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
>> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
>> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
>> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
>> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
>> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
>> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
>> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
>> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
>> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
>> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
>> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
>> website and make their "decrees".
>>
>> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
>> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
>> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>>
>> My two cents:-)
>>
>> Edward Wong
>> Orlando, FL
>>
>
> There's just so much more to a bike than mere weight and price. Sure,
> if I were looking for a racing bike, especially one where I'd be doing
> lots of climbing, weight would assume more importance. But for touring,
> it's less so.
> If I heard that such-and-such bike weighs 10 - 20 pounds more than
> another that seems like it should be similar, the first thing I'd want
> to know is: what's on that bike that added the weight? Is it just the
> way it's built, as in thicker and stiffer frame, forks, etc.? How about
> components? Does it come with fenders? All of these things add weight,
> of course, but possibly the result is a better bike than the lighter
> one. Better as in, what someone might want to do with it.
> And that's where it comes down to having to actually see and ride the
> bike, if at all possible. It might turn out that the weight matters
> little in comparison with all the other features of the bike. Or, it may
> just be a ton of pure garbage. But the only way of finding out for sure
> is to see and (hopefully) ride the bike.
> I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHA in the flesh. I suspect that I
> won't really want one, since all of my biking niches are filled - my TE
> does the job when I want a faster ride, and now I have a Speed to
> complement my GTO. If I ever start doing a lot of air travel again, I'll
> probably buy another Bike Friday SatRDay, but right now I'm pretty
> satisfied with what I've got.
>

Still defending a bike you never saw and would never buy.

Tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes with fenders that cost
$3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Edward Wong wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Another bad example of "armchair" bike reviews was when Giant
>> introduced the Revive. It was instantly ridiculed by many in this
>> forum and most were people who had never laid a finger on one of
>> these. One poster called it a "joke bike" and another said, "great,
>> another office chair with wheels that is slower than a beach cruiser"
>> or something to that effect. I decided to check out this
>> "slower than a beach cruiser joke bike" myself and form my own
>> opinions. I found to my delight that these bikes are the most fun on
>> two wheels. I guess this is the part where I am supposed to
>> "apologize" (well it's not as fast as a low racer,
>> but...yada...yada...yada) on the bike's behalf for not being fast
>> enough to break Sam Whittingham's world record but I'm not. I will
>> say that I found it to be fast enough and comfortable to the point
>> that I'm calling it an ergonomic revelation. In fact I went ahead and
>> ordered one! So much for the "experts" who look at a picture on a
>> website and make their "decrees".
>>
>> If I could afford it, I would order a BiGHA. They do have a 60 day
>> trial period so it's hard to lose. I believe I would wind up keeping
>> it. It seems like a really nice bike and made in America to boot!
>>
>> My two cents:-)
>>
>> Edward Wong
>> Orlando, FL
>>
>
> There's just so much more to a bike than mere weight and price. Sure,
> if I were looking for a racing bike, especially one where I'd be doing
> lots of climbing, weight would assume more importance. But for touring,
> it's less so.
> If I heard that such-and-such bike weighs 10 - 20 pounds more than
> another that seems like it should be similar, the first thing I'd want
> to know is: what's on that bike that added the weight? Is it just the
> way it's built, as in thicker and stiffer frame, forks, etc.? How about
> components? Does it come with fenders? All of these things add weight,
> of course, but possibly the result is a better bike than the lighter
> one. Better as in, what someone might want to do with it.
> And that's where it comes down to having to actually see and ride the
> bike, if at all possible. It might turn out that the weight matters
> little in comparison with all the other features of the bike. Or, it may
> just be a ton of pure garbage. But the only way of finding out for sure
> is to see and (hopefully) ride the bike.
> I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHA in the flesh. I suspect that I
> won't really want one, since all of my biking niches are filled - my TE
> does the job when I want a faster ride, and now I have a Speed to
> complement my GTO. If I ever start doing a lot of air travel again, I'll
> probably buy another Bike Friday SatRDay, but right now I'm pretty
> satisfied with what I've got.
>

Still defending a bike you never saw and would never buy.

Tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes with fenders that cost
$3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast
>> as the Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at
>> about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the
>> price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell
>> us if the Bigha is a fast as any bike in it's price range? I didn't
>> think so.
>>
>> Now tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes that cost
>> $3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> Is you sole criteria as to worth the speed of a bike? And can you stop
> responding before I've even answered?
> How do you feel about bikes that weigh more than 50 pounds and cost
> more than $3000? How about trikes? How does the BigHA rate in comparison
> to a 70 pound trike tandem that goes for more than twice its cost? Do
> you now think the BigHA is a great deal?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Do you think the Bigha is a trike? Or a tandem? Or are you grasping at
straws because you can't answer a simple question? What other slow, 50
pound bike costs $3000.00?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast
>> as the Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at
>> about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the
>> price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell
>> us if the Bigha is a fast as any bike in it's price range? I didn't
>> think so.
>>
>> Now tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes that cost
>> $3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> Is you sole criteria as to worth the speed of a bike? And can you stop
> responding before I've even answered?
> How do you feel about bikes that weigh more than 50 pounds and cost
> more than $3000? How about trikes? How does the BigHA rate in comparison
> to a 70 pound trike tandem that goes for more than twice its cost? Do
> you now think the BigHA is a great deal?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Do you think the Bigha is a trike? Or a tandem? Or are you grasping at
straws because you can't answer a simple question? What other slow, 50
pound bike costs $3000.00?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
>>such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
>>and still have a couple thousand left over.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
> That's your issue Lorenzo. You CAN'T afford it either. Show me a
> similiar bike with ALL the features, quality, etc. for 2 grand less
> and I'll show you some oceanfront property in Death Valley I'd like to
> sell you very cheap!
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Are you going to pay $3000.00 for this bike?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>But you can't afford it, can you? Who can afford to **** away money on
>>such an overpriced bike? Not when you can get a bike in the same class
>>and still have a couple thousand left over.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
> That's your issue Lorenzo. You CAN'T afford it either. Show me a
> similiar bike with ALL the features, quality, etc. for 2 grand less
> and I'll show you some oceanfront property in Death Valley I'd like to
> sell you very cheap!
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Are you going to pay $3000.00 for this bike?

I didn't think so.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Thompson" > wrote in message >...

> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> > One of my best trolls ever and this guy with a double name composed of
> > Toms falls for it like a ton of bricks. Thanks for making my day Mr.
> > Unmitigated Crap. But you did not listen to what I had to say. What
> > and where is Westland or is it Wasteland? State? Country? But if you
> > don't care why should I?

> This from someone who says that they always write exactly what they think?
> You are not capable of trolling.

Ha! I got you didn't I?
>
> It's too much fun tweaking you. Making fun of my name is something most
> people grow out of by abut age 13 or so. That leads me to believe that you
> are going to be easy.

Tweak away. This is all just fun and games to me.

> As for whether or not I care where Westland is, that's an assumption on your
> part. Not accurate though. Here, I'll give you another hint.....
>
> Tom Thompson - Earth

It is not my intention ever to look up a place name so bland as to be
called Westland. You by no means have the dumbest name I ever heard
of. I once knew I guy named Harry Butts. But like you he was proud of
his name. I know for myself if I had a name like Edward Edwardson I
would sure as hell change it. One of the Edwards would have to go.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Thompson" > wrote in message >...

> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> > One of my best trolls ever and this guy with a double name composed of
> > Toms falls for it like a ton of bricks. Thanks for making my day Mr.
> > Unmitigated Crap. But you did not listen to what I had to say. What
> > and where is Westland or is it Wasteland? State? Country? But if you
> > don't care why should I?

> This from someone who says that they always write exactly what they think?
> You are not capable of trolling.

Ha! I got you didn't I?
>
> It's too much fun tweaking you. Making fun of my name is something most
> people grow out of by abut age 13 or so. That leads me to believe that you
> are going to be easy.

Tweak away. This is all just fun and games to me.

> As for whether or not I care where Westland is, that's an assumption on your
> part. Not accurate though. Here, I'll give you another hint.....
>
> Tom Thompson - Earth

It is not my intention ever to look up a place name so bland as to be
called Westland. You by no means have the dumbest name I ever heard
of. I once knew I guy named Harry Butts. But like you he was proud of
his name. I know for myself if I had a name like Edward Edwardson I
would sure as hell change it. One of the Edwards would have to go.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Dave Clary]

On 16 Aug 2003 20:27:17 -0700, (Edward Dolan) wrote:

>"T
>It is not my intention ever to look up a place name so bland as to be
>called Westland. You by no means have the dumbest name I ever heard
>of. I once knew I guy named Harry Butts. But like you he was proud of
>his name. I know for myself if I had a name like Edward Edwardson I
>would sure as hell change it. One of the Edwards would have to go.

I wonder if my old high school classmate ever changed his name--or
just went through life known as Sterling Silver.

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
EZ-1SC Pilot (Texas P-38 Squadron Retired)
Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary
P-38 Stuff: http://www.geocities.com/texasp38/texasp38.html
Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org

[Dave Clary]

On 16 Aug 2003 20:27:17 -0700, (Edward Dolan) wrote:

>"T
>It is not my intention ever to look up a place name so bland as to be
>called Westland. You by no means have the dumbest name I ever heard
>of. I once knew I guy named Harry Butts. But like you he was proud of
>his name. I know for myself if I had a name like Edward Edwardson I
>would sure as hell change it. One of the Edwards would have to go.

I wonder if my old high school classmate ever changed his name--or
just went through life known as Sterling Silver.

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
EZ-1SC Pilot (Texas P-38 Squadron Retired)
Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary
P-38 Stuff: http://www.geocities.com/texasp38/texasp38.html
Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Bill Hamilton wrote:
> > I've never heard of anything whatsoever happening in Toronto, IA. Thus, if
> > someone mentions Toronto, I think of the one in Canada. The one you'd
> > expect to see on a continental map.
> >
> > -Bill Hamilton, Earth
>
> Approximately a third of the streets in Toronto, Iowa are paved, and the
> population would exceed 200 if the cows on the couple of farms on the
> edge of town were counted.
>
> Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

Sounds like my kind of town and about the right size for a village
where human beings are going to have to live and get along with one
another.

I didn't recognize you at first when I did not see your name followed
by Quad Cities (Illinois Side). At first I thought... Oh No! - another
Tom Sherman for me to have to put up with. The thought was too
horrible to contemplate, but then I realized it was just the old Tom
Sherman trying his darnedest to be witty.

Ed Dolan - The Present Universe (which pretty much boils down to
Minnesota)

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Bill Hamilton wrote:
> > I've never heard of anything whatsoever happening in Toronto, IA. Thus, if
> > someone mentions Toronto, I think of the one in Canada. The one you'd
> > expect to see on a continental map.
> >
> > -Bill Hamilton, Earth
>
> Approximately a third of the streets in Toronto, Iowa are paved, and the
> population would exceed 200 if the cows on the couple of farms on the
> edge of town were counted.
>
> Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

Sounds like my kind of town and about the right size for a village
where human beings are going to have to live and get along with one
another.

I didn't recognize you at first when I did not see your name followed
by Quad Cities (Illinois Side). At first I thought... Oh No! - another
Tom Sherman for me to have to put up with. The thought was too
horrible to contemplate, but then I realized it was just the old Tom
Sherman trying his darnedest to be witty.

Ed Dolan - The Present Universe (which pretty much boils down to
Minnesota)

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Mr. Dolan,
>
> You should have realized in the past when I posted about riding in
> Havana, I meant Havana, IL and not Havana, Cuba.
>
> Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

That was one of your better trolls by far. But you had previously
worked me up to such a rage that I was frothing at the mouth when I
took the bait. I was underestimating your intelligence and your
playfulness because you often say so many stupid things. Alas for our
perceptions, no man is ever just one thing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

PS. Don't overplay the Milky Way Galaxy bit. Everyone already knows
where you are from and where I am from by now I suspect.

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Mr. Dolan,
>
> You should have realized in the past when I posted about riding in
> Havana, I meant Havana, IL and not Havana, Cuba.
>
> Tom Sherman - Milky Way Galaxy

That was one of your better trolls by far. But you had previously
worked me up to such a rage that I was frothing at the mouth when I
took the bait. I was underestimating your intelligence and your
playfulness because you often say so many stupid things. Alas for our
perceptions, no man is ever just one thing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

PS. Don't overplay the Milky Way Galaxy bit. Everyone already knows
where you are from and where I am from by now I suspect.

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
> Still defending a bike you never saw and would never buy.
>
> Tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes with fenders that cost
> $3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

I've seen a few new retro-type bikes going for more than $3000 and are about
that heavy here in Dallas, who buys then is anyones guess

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> >
>
> Still defending a bike you never saw and would never buy.
>
> Tell us about all the other slow, 50 pound bikes with fenders that cost
> $3000.00. Can't? I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

I've seen a few new retro-type bikes going for more than $3000 and are about
that heavy here in Dallas, who buys then is anyones guess

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> > learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> > entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> > responding to. Note my example and follow.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.

I am very much opposed to threads that have a name associated with
them and so I will not reply to your post as much as I would like to.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> > learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> > entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> > responding to. Note my example and follow.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.

I am very much opposed to threads that have a name associated with
them and so I will not reply to your post as much as I would like to.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> >> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
> >> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
> >> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
> >> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its
> >> purchase, or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being
> >> worth the money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
> >> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
> >> I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you
> >> in better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?

Mr. Varney, it is not correct or the moral thing to do to inject a
person's name into the subject label of a thread. How would you like
it if it were done to you? Also, irrespective of using someone's name
inappropriately in a subject thread heading, I do not see any reason
why you have started two new threads on the same old subject, that of
the price of the Bigha. Mr. Sherman and I once had a thread running to
well over 500 messages and the computers did not break down from
overload. You should stay on the original thread no matter how long
and tedious it becomes. I think once a subject discourse becomes well
established, like that between you and Mr. Love, then you can
judiciously edit the messages flying back and forth so as to not use
up too much space but you should not be multiplying the thread
subject. This just creates nothing but lots of confusion. (I did this
by mistake on The Trike Phenomena thread and I do apologize for it. I
got over enthusiastic with my ieSpell check.) It behooves all of us to
be good Internet citizens.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> >> One more time: I am not defending the bike. Again: I am not defending
> >> the bike. Can you understand that? I am not defending the bike.
> >> As to putting my money where my mouth is - that comment might make
> >> some sense, *IF* I had been defending the bike, advocating its
> >> purchase, or otherwise making comments along the lines of its being
> >> worth the money. But I haven't. Again: I haven't.
> >> Are you clear on this now? Are you going to continue to claim that
> >> I'm defending the bike? Do we need someone else to explain it to you
> >> in better, simpler words than: I AM NOT DEFENDING THE BIKE?

Mr. Varney, it is not correct or the moral thing to do to inject a
person's name into the subject label of a thread. How would you like
it if it were done to you? Also, irrespective of using someone's name
inappropriately in a subject thread heading, I do not see any reason
why you have started two new threads on the same old subject, that of
the price of the Bigha. Mr. Sherman and I once had a thread running to
well over 500 messages and the computers did not break down from
overload. You should stay on the original thread no matter how long
and tedious it becomes. I think once a subject discourse becomes well
established, like that between you and Mr. Love, then you can
judiciously edit the messages flying back and forth so as to not use
up too much space but you should not be multiplying the thread
subject. This just creates nothing but lots of confusion. (I did this
by mistake on The Trike Phenomena thread and I do apologize for it. I
got over enthusiastic with my ieSpell check.) It behooves all of us to
be good Internet citizens.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Ian > wrote in message >...

> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

America is a land unto itself, big and broad enough to encompass the
world. I feel sorry for you Europeans actually. Everywhere you go you
must be constantly tripping over other people. But I guess if I were a
resident of the Old World I would be constantly traveling too just to
get a break from it. But if America is such a horrible place, as you
balmy liberals think it is, why is it that all the rest of the world
is clamoring to get in here?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Ian > wrote in message >...

> Research has shown that pre 9/11, Americans were the least travelled people
> of the world, more so post 9/11, Americans in general have been convinced by
> successive insular regimes that the world is a nasty place, a notable quote
> on a holiday programme in Britain, made by a visiting U.S. citizen was "I
> brought my own food because they eat chipmunks in England". We would soon
> starve to death eating animals that do not exist here.

America is a land unto itself, big and broad enough to encompass the
world. I feel sorry for you Europeans actually. Everywhere you go you
must be constantly tripping over other people. But I guess if I were a
resident of the Old World I would be constantly traveling too just to
get a break from it. But if America is such a horrible place, as you
balmy liberals think it is, why is it that all the rest of the world
is clamoring to get in here?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Russ Price > wrote in message >...

> Chipmunks? Are you kidding? Squirrels have more meat! :o) Actually,
> squirrels are North American stowaways that made it across the pond.
>
> A few years back, I took a trip to the UK, and never once set foot in
> any American restaurant chain. I figure, if I'm going to all the
> expense of flying overseas, I'll be damned if I'm going to try to
> pretend that I'm back home.
>
> In spite of all the jokes about food over there, I *never* had a bad
> meal. A backroads pub in north Wales had some of the best
> fish-and-chips I've ever had... and breakfast at the hotel in St.
> David's was superb.
>
> I even managed to return the rental car without any damage! Hint: study
> the Highway Code before you go. Otherwise, you might not survive the
> first roundabout. I even managed to get used to shifting with the left
> hand... fortunately I already knew how to drive a stickshift. [1]
>
> Unfortunately, this was back when I was not doing any cycling. :( If I
> ever manage to get back there, I'll have to look into renting something
> that's powered by me rather than burning dinosaur juice.
>
> Please don't assume that all Americans are clueless gits. Just some of
> them, like one who is now a permanent resident of my killfile, and whose
> initials are a synonym for impotence. His rants are entertaining for
> about ten seconds or so, but I got tired of them a long time ago. It
> seems to me that the ultra-right-wingers have a mean-spiritedness that
> belies their claim to Christianity.

Congratulations on posting one of the most inane messages I have ever
had the displeasure to read. Folks who talk about food and cars in an
international forum like this have got to be world class jerks. I
consider it an honor to be the subject of your miserable kill file.
What on earth would we ever find to talk about anyway? I seek out
intelligent people to have conversations with, not jerks who talk
about food and cars.

By the way, I have never met a more mean-spirited group of people in
my life than the treasonous liberal extremist left-wing wacko nuts
that infest this newsgroup. The English stand out in a class of their
own. But of course you are one of them (a git) so what would you know?
And one other thing, I am not a Christian. Whatever gave you that
idea? Just because I call on God to Bless America... Put your brain
into gear and see if you can figure it out.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Russ Price > wrote in message >...

> Chipmunks? Are you kidding? Squirrels have more meat! :o) Actually,
> squirrels are North American stowaways that made it across the pond.
>
> A few years back, I took a trip to the UK, and never once set foot in
> any American restaurant chain. I figure, if I'm going to all the
> expense of flying overseas, I'll be damned if I'm going to try to
> pretend that I'm back home.
>
> In spite of all the jokes about food over there, I *never* had a bad
> meal. A backroads pub in north Wales had some of the best
> fish-and-chips I've ever had... and breakfast at the hotel in St.
> David's was superb.
>
> I even managed to return the rental car without any damage! Hint: study
> the Highway Code before you go. Otherwise, you might not survive the
> first roundabout. I even managed to get used to shifting with the left
> hand... fortunately I already knew how to drive a stickshift. [1]
>
> Unfortunately, this was back when I was not doing any cycling. :( If I
> ever manage to get back there, I'll have to look into renting something
> that's powered by me rather than burning dinosaur juice.
>
> Please don't assume that all Americans are clueless gits. Just some of
> them, like one who is now a permanent resident of my killfile, and whose
> initials are a synonym for impotence. His rants are entertaining for
> about ten seconds or so, but I got tired of them a long time ago. It
> seems to me that the ultra-right-wingers have a mean-spiritedness that
> belies their claim to Christianity.

Congratulations on posting one of the most inane messages I have ever
had the displeasure to read. Folks who talk about food and cars in an
international forum like this have got to be world class jerks. I
consider it an honor to be the subject of your miserable kill file.
What on earth would we ever find to talk about anyway? I seek out
intelligent people to have conversations with, not jerks who talk
about food and cars.

By the way, I have never met a more mean-spirited group of people in
my life than the treasonous liberal extremist left-wing wacko nuts
that infest this newsgroup. The English stand out in a class of their
own. But of course you are one of them (a git) so what would you know?
And one other thing, I am not a Christian. Whatever gave you that
idea? Just because I call on God to Bless America... Put your brain
into gear and see if you can figure it out.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Wong]

> Are you going to pay $3000.00 for this bike?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

I already explained that I would invest $3K in this bike if I had the
money. I like the bike and it's features. I am mature and man enough
to state my true reasons contrary to your childish counter posts which
sound like a broken record. I am beginning to have my "doubts" about
you if you know what I mean.

You have failed to produce a list of bikes that are in the same class
as the BiGHa that are faster, lighter and cost $2K LESS. You won't be
able to because there are none but you'll be able to produce plenty of
"Are you going to pay $3,000" and "I didn't think so" replies. I
guess you cut and paste these to your message editor.

Well Mr. Love, cut and paste away. As for me, I'm out of here on to
do more fun things.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

Talk is REALLY CHEAP when it contributes absolutely NOTHING to the
betterment of this newsgroup.

[Edward Wong]

> Are you going to pay $3000.00 for this bike?
>
> I didn't think so.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

I already explained that I would invest $3K in this bike if I had the
money. I like the bike and it's features. I am mature and man enough
to state my true reasons contrary to your childish counter posts which
sound like a broken record. I am beginning to have my "doubts" about
you if you know what I mean.

You have failed to produce a list of bikes that are in the same class
as the BiGHa that are faster, lighter and cost $2K LESS. You won't be
able to because there are none but you'll be able to produce plenty of
"Are you going to pay $3,000" and "I didn't think so" replies. I
guess you cut and paste these to your message editor.

Well Mr. Love, cut and paste away. As for me, I'm out of here on to
do more fun things.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

Talk is REALLY CHEAP when it contributes absolutely NOTHING to the
betterment of this newsgroup.

[Dave Larrington]

Mikael Seierup wrote:

> Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)

But yes. What terrible cooks the English are. They even burned Joan of
Arc...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Mikael Seierup wrote:

> Hmm. Wouldn't chipmunk actually be better than some english food? ;-)

But yes. What terrible cooks the English are. They even burned Joan of
Arc...

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Steve McDonald wrote:

> "An epicure, dining at Crewe,
> found a large rat in his stew.
> The waiter cried out, 'Please,
> don't shout and show it about,
> or the rest will be wanting one too!"

No, no, Meestah Fawlty. Eees a hamster!

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Steve McDonald wrote:

> "An epicure, dining at Crewe,
> found a large rat in his stew.
> The waiter cried out, 'Please,
> don't shout and show it about,
> or the rest will be wanting one too!"

No, no, Meestah Fawlty. Eees a hamster!

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Russ Price wrote:

> Chipmunks? Are you kidding? Squirrels have more meat! :o) Actually,
> squirrels are North American stowaways that made it across the pond.

The /grey/ ones - aka "tree rats" are immigrants, but the now rather rare
red ones are native.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Russ Price wrote:

> Chipmunks? Are you kidding? Squirrels have more meat! :o) Actually,
> squirrels are North American stowaways that made it across the pond.

The /grey/ ones - aka "tree rats" are immigrants, but the now rather rare
red ones are native.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Ian]

Dave Larrington must be edykated coz e writed:

> The /grey/ ones - aka "tree rats" are immigrants, but the now rather rare
> red ones are native.
>
Mores the pity, the red ones taste the best.

Ian

[Ian]

Dave Larrington must be edykated coz e writed:

> The /grey/ ones - aka "tree rats" are immigrants, but the now rather rare
> red ones are native.
>
Mores the pity, the red ones taste the best.

Ian

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >..

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ... But if America is such a horrible place, as you
> > balmy liberals think it is, why is it that all the rest of the world
> > is clamoring to get in here?
>
> Americans are great at advertising - therefore the perception does not
> match the reality.

The immigrants come and they do not leave. When Americans live abroad
they are called expatriates. When Europeans and others from all over
the world live here they become citizens and are called Americans.

> Mr. Dolan posts are an example of how well the US mainstream media
> propaganda has worked.

And Mr. Sherman is the best example I know of the disgruntled,
dyspeptic and eternally unsatisfied and ungrateful American. Has it
occurred to any others on this newsgroup that Mr. Sherman is living in
the wrong country. He would undoubtedly be much happier in a country
like France where he could consort with his fellow liberals and
socialists. Ian (the edykated guy) is going to emigrate to France. He
and Tom could enjoy that good French cuisine and hate America to their
heart's content over their aperitifs and would not be bothered by the
likes of me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >..

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ... But if America is such a horrible place, as you
> > balmy liberals think it is, why is it that all the rest of the world
> > is clamoring to get in here?
>
> Americans are great at advertising - therefore the perception does not
> match the reality.

The immigrants come and they do not leave. When Americans live abroad
they are called expatriates. When Europeans and others from all over
the world live here they become citizens and are called Americans.

> Mr. Dolan posts are an example of how well the US mainstream media
> propaganda has worked.

And Mr. Sherman is the best example I know of the disgruntled,
dyspeptic and eternally unsatisfied and ungrateful American. Has it
occurred to any others on this newsgroup that Mr. Sherman is living in
the wrong country. He would undoubtedly be much happier in a country
like France where he could consort with his fellow liberals and
socialists. Ian (the edykated guy) is going to emigrate to France. He
and Tom could enjoy that good French cuisine and hate America to their
heart's content over their aperitifs and would not be bothered by the
likes of me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman]

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> > Lorenzo,
> >
> > There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> > some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.
> >
> > I would venture they are not in the high speed category either.
> >
> > Ed Gin
> >
>
> Do you think that the Bigha is a trike or a tandem? Are you going to pay
> $3000.00 for a Bigha? Who, with any real recumbent experience, is going
> to pay $3000.00 for a slow heavy Bigha?

The thought of Ed Gin buying anything he could not ride a sub 5-hour
century on boggles the imagination. :)

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Tom Sherman]

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> > Lorenzo,
> >
> > There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> > some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.
> >
> > I would venture they are not in the high speed category either.
> >
> > Ed Gin
> >
>
> Do you think that the Bigha is a trike or a tandem? Are you going to pay
> $3000.00 for a Bigha? Who, with any real recumbent experience, is going
> to pay $3000.00 for a slow heavy Bigha?

The thought of Ed Gin buying anything he could not ride a sub 5-hour
century on boggles the imagination. :)

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Carol Hague]

Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara > wrote:


> There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
>
> For example:
>
> Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.

<irritating pedantry>

The Trice is made by Inspired Cycle Engineering these days - they took
over from Peter Ross' Crystal Engineering several years ago.

</irritating pedantry>

--
Carol Hague
"I'm not obsessing - I just want everything to be perfect."
- Piper, Charmed.

[Carol Hague]

Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara > wrote:


> There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
>
> For example:
>
> Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.

<irritating pedantry>

The Trice is made by Inspired Cycle Engineering these days - they took
over from Peter Ross' Crystal Engineering several years ago.

</irritating pedantry>

--
Carol Hague
"I'm not obsessing - I just want everything to be perfect."
- Piper, Charmed.

[harv]

Although the aerodynamics would favor b2b, the traditional position could
have interesting motivational consequences...such as stoker Ed trying to
chase down captain Alan, and Alan trying to outrun Ed. Maybe 3 hour
centuries could be had! <grinning like a silly monkey>
Tom Sherman > wrote in message
...
>
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> >
> > Ah, but have you thought about:
> >
> > Me and Alan on a tandem?
> >
> > Ironically, we sat on one at the Hostel Shoppe, too bad no one had a
camera.
> > ;-)
> >
> > Aren't two riders better than one?
> >
> > Ed - can still dream huh - Gin
>
> Ed,
>
> Myself and another rider with the same initials were rather fast [1] on
> a borrowed socked RANS Screamer. [2]
>
> Maybe you should get a custom carbon fiber back-to-back lowracer tandem
> - then you and Alan could do a sub 4 hour century ride.
>
> [1] And I have Ben Fox and Harry Jiles as witnesses.
> [2] < http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Barnhart.htm >
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[harv]

Although the aerodynamics would favor b2b, the traditional position could
have interesting motivational consequences...such as stoker Ed trying to
chase down captain Alan, and Alan trying to outrun Ed. Maybe 3 hour
centuries could be had! <grinning like a silly monkey>
Tom Sherman > wrote in message
...
>
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> >
> > Ah, but have you thought about:
> >
> > Me and Alan on a tandem?
> >
> > Ironically, we sat on one at the Hostel Shoppe, too bad no one had a
camera.
> > ;-)
> >
> > Aren't two riders better than one?
> >
> > Ed - can still dream huh - Gin
>
> Ed,
>
> Myself and another rider with the same initials were rather fast [1] on
> a borrowed socked RANS Screamer. [2]
>
> Maybe you should get a custom carbon fiber back-to-back lowracer tandem
> - then you and Alan could do a sub 4 hour century ride.
>
> [1] And I have Ben Fox and Harry Jiles as witnesses.
> [2] < http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Barnhart.htm >
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[tgorham3]

Originally posted by Felix Audet Anyone here own one? How well their
sales are going? Anyone can feed any kind of informations..? [/QUOTE

I've read the responses to this thread until I'm quite bored. BikeE,
while it trashed its fiduciary responsibility to its existing customer
base, was a sophisticated design firm. They actively identified their
customers, they understood their needs and identified the requirements
to meet those needs. Good engineering resulted (followed by bad
behavior).

While there are a great number of enthusiasts who aren't enamoured with
the BigHa, I would guess that the company is sufficiently sophisticated
to suggest that YOU AREN'T the TARGET MARKET. BikeE knew who they were
going to targe and went after them very effectively. Big Ha hasn't
embedded demographics into their materials but, from what I can see of
the Big Ha product it is going to be happier to find itself as a his and
hers in the Xmas Neiman Marcus catalog or featured in Hammecher
Schlemmer (to lazy to check the spelling) than bike of the year in Bent
Rider Online.

Bottom line, make it clear what is important to you and be explicit
about how the product is successful addresses your needs.. or not. That
is all the debate that is required.

Cheers...tg



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[tgorham3]

Originally posted by Felix Audet Anyone here own one? How well their
sales are going? Anyone can feed any kind of informations..? [/QUOTE

I've read the responses to this thread until I'm quite bored. BikeE,
while it trashed its fiduciary responsibility to its existing customer
base, was a sophisticated design firm. They actively identified their
customers, they understood their needs and identified the requirements
to meet those needs. Good engineering resulted (followed by bad
behavior).

While there are a great number of enthusiasts who aren't enamoured with
the BigHa, I would guess that the company is sufficiently sophisticated
to suggest that YOU AREN'T the TARGET MARKET. BikeE knew who they were
going to targe and went after them very effectively. Big Ha hasn't
embedded demographics into their materials but, from what I can see of
the Big Ha product it is going to be happier to find itself as a his and
hers in the Xmas Neiman Marcus catalog or featured in Hammecher
Schlemmer (to lazy to check the spelling) than bike of the year in Bent
Rider Online.

Bottom line, make it clear what is important to you and be explicit
about how the product is successful addresses your needs.. or not. That
is all the debate that is required.

Cheers...tg



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lawrence Turner]

Lorenzo, you are wise to attempt to guage value of a bike, but I think
your criteria is a bit limited.

You seem to only consider price in terms of weight. Are there not
other categories that add value to the bike? Durability? Comfort?
Electronics - no other bike has that feature? Style? Ease of use?

How about cars? A Mercedes S-600 costs well over $100,000. I could
buy a lighter and faster car for under $20,000. Is the lighter car
the better one? If I care only for weight and speed, yes, but I also
care about many other factors. Maybe you only care about weight and
speed, but the photo on your website suggests you are quite heavy and
slow (no offense).

The thing that strikes me about every Bigha review I see is that it's
"complete" or "well made". Maybe it's just a nice product? Could it
be possible?


"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message >...
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> > Lorenzo,
> >
> > There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> > some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.
> >
> > I would venture they are not in the high speed category either.
> >
> > Ed Gin
> >
>
> Do you think that the Bigha is a trike or a tandem? Are you going to pay
> $3000.00 for a Bigha? Who, with any real recumbent experience, is going
> to pay $3000.00 for a slow heavy Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lawrence Turner]

Lorenzo, you are wise to attempt to guage value of a bike, but I think
your criteria is a bit limited.

You seem to only consider price in terms of weight. Are there not
other categories that add value to the bike? Durability? Comfort?
Electronics - no other bike has that feature? Style? Ease of use?

How about cars? A Mercedes S-600 costs well over $100,000. I could
buy a lighter and faster car for under $20,000. Is the lighter car
the better one? If I care only for weight and speed, yes, but I also
care about many other factors. Maybe you only care about weight and
speed, but the photo on your website suggests you are quite heavy and
slow (no offense).

The thing that strikes me about every Bigha review I see is that it's
"complete" or "well made". Maybe it's just a nice product? Could it
be possible?


"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message >...
> Ed Gin & Shirleen Kajiwara wrote:
> > Lorenzo,
> >
> > There are several over 50 lb. recumbent bikes costing more than $3000 and
> > some of these cost twice as much at ~$6000.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > Tandem Greenspeed trikes, and Crystal Engineering tandem Trice's.
> >
> > I would venture they are not in the high speed category either.
> >
> > Ed Gin
> >
>
> Do you think that the Bigha is a trike or a tandem? Are you going to pay
> $3000.00 for a Bigha? Who, with any real recumbent experience, is going
> to pay $3000.00 for a slow heavy Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lawrence Turner]

OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.

[Lawrence Turner]

OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:
> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
> m:
>
>
>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>
>
> you just figured that out?

Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:
> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
> m:
>
>
>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>
>
> you just figured that out?

Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[MLB]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
@thegrid.net:

> MLB wrote:
>> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
>> m:
>>
>>
>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>
>>
>> you just figured that out?
>
> Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>

You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
understanding?

[MLB]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
@thegrid.net:

> MLB wrote:
>> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
>> m:
>>
>>
>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>
>>
>> you just figured that out?
>
> Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>

You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
understanding?

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
> @thegrid.net:
>
> > MLB wrote:
> >> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
> >> m:
> >>
> >>
> >>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
> >>
> >>
> >> you just figured that out?
> >
> > Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
> >
> >
>
> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
> it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
> built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
> understanding?
>

I think the point that he's trying to make is if it is aimed at
inexperienced riders, what inexperienced riders are going to pay 3k for
a freaking bicycle? If it is truly aimed at the Hummer and Escalade
crowd, they usually don't like things that take effort and make you
sweat. :) They would be much more likely to buy something with a
motor.

--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
> @thegrid.net:
>
> > MLB wrote:
> >> (Lawrence Turner) wrote in
> >> m:
> >>
> >>
> >>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
> >>
> >>
> >> you just figured that out?
> >
> > Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
> >
> >
>
> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
> it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
> built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
> understanding?
>

I think the point that he's trying to make is if it is aimed at
inexperienced riders, what inexperienced riders are going to pay 3k for
a freaking bicycle? If it is truly aimed at the Hummer and Escalade
crowd, they usually don't like things that take effort and make you
sweat. :) They would be much more likely to buy something with a
motor.

--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[skip]

"DrRecumbnt" > wrote in message
...
> Like Land Rover and others, Hummer already has their own bicycle offering.
It
> fits into a soft bag in the rear of the vehicle. I suppose you could put a
half
> dozen of them in there.
>
> http://www.hummerbikes.com/
>
Well I'll be dipped. It looks like a Bigha Mt. Bike. Bigha should private
label the recumbent for Hummer. Maybe call it RecummerHummer or something.
Hummer buyers would probably never notice the extra $3000 tacked to the
price.

skip

[skip]

"DrRecumbnt" > wrote in message
...
> Like Land Rover and others, Hummer already has their own bicycle offering.
It
> fits into a soft bag in the rear of the vehicle. I suppose you could put a
half
> dozen of them in there.
>
> http://www.hummerbikes.com/
>
Well I'll be dipped. It looks like a Bigha Mt. Bike. Bigha should private
label the recumbent for Hummer. Maybe call it RecummerHummer or something.
Hummer buyers would probably never notice the extra $3000 tacked to the
price.

skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
> @thegrid.net:
>
>
>>MLB wrote:
>>
(Lawrence Turner) wrote in
m:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>>
>>>
>>>you just figured that out?
>>
>>Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>>
>
>
> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
> it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
> built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
> understanding?

The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
off? Do you want the recumbent industy to be branded as over priced and
over hyped?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open.”
Gunter Grass

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
> @thegrid.net:
>
>
>>MLB wrote:
>>
(Lawrence Turner) wrote in
m:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>>
>>>
>>>you just figured that out?
>>
>>Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>
>>
>
>
> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k. Yet
> it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was OBVIOUSLY not
> built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having trouble
> understanding?

The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
off? Do you want the recumbent industy to be branded as over priced and
over hyped?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open.”
Gunter Grass

[MLB]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
:

> MLB wrote:
>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
>> @thegrid.net:
>>
>>
>>>MLB wrote:
>>>
(Lawrence Turner) wrote in
m:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>you just figured that out?
>>>
>>>Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k.
>> Yet it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was
>> OBVIOUSLY not built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having
>> trouble understanding?
>
> The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
> this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
> question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
> buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
> know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
> off? Do you want the recumbent industy to be branded as over priced
> and over hyped?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open.”
> Gunter Grass
>
>

WHY do you keep posting the SAME question OVER and OVER when it's been
answered OVER and OVER again.
Sorry, got to ignore you now.

[MLB]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in
:

> MLB wrote:
>> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:3F481CCC.1050705
>> @thegrid.net:
>>
>>
>>>MLB wrote:
>>>
(Lawrence Turner) wrote in
m:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OK... now I see... you're just an idiot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>you just figured that out?
>>>
>>>Are you going to pay $3000.00 for a Bigha? No? Not an idiot either?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k.
>> Yet it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was
>> OBVIOUSLY not built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having
>> trouble understanding?
>
> The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
> this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
> question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
> buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
> know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
> off? Do you want the recumbent industy to be branded as over priced
> and over hyped?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open.”
> Gunter Grass
>
>

WHY do you keep posting the SAME question OVER and OVER when it's been
answered OVER and OVER again.
Sorry, got to ignore you now.

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
>
> "DrRecumbnt" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Like Land Rover and others, Hummer already has their own bicycle offering.
> It
> > fits into a soft bag in the rear of the vehicle. I suppose you could put a
> half
> > dozen of them in there.
> >
> > http://www.hummerbikes.com/
> >
> Well I'll be dipped. It looks like a Bigha Mt. Bike. Bigha should private
> label the recumbent for Hummer. Maybe call it RecummerHummer or something.
> Hummer buyers would probably never notice the extra $3000 tacked to the
> price.
>
> skip
>
>
>
The BigHum? That sounds like something you pay for in the red light
district...
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
>
> "DrRecumbnt" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Like Land Rover and others, Hummer already has their own bicycle offering.
> It
> > fits into a soft bag in the rear of the vehicle. I suppose you could put a
> half
> > dozen of them in there.
> >
> > http://www.hummerbikes.com/
> >
> Well I'll be dipped. It looks like a Bigha Mt. Bike. Bigha should private
> label the recumbent for Hummer. Maybe call it RecummerHummer or something.
> Hummer buyers would probably never notice the extra $3000 tacked to the
> price.
>
> skip
>
>
>
The BigHum? That sounds like something you pay for in the red light
district...
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
>
>
> That is up to the buyer
>
>
>>You haven't answered that simple
>>question.
>
>
> It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
>
> Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
>
> How do you know no one is buying it?
>
>

Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
>
>
> That is up to the buyer
>
>
>>You haven't answered that simple
>>question.
>
>
> It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
>
> Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
>
> How do you know no one is buying it?
>
>

Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[William Higley, Sr.]

As near as I know (based on personal observations) the Bigha is outselling
Cannondale by a 2:1 margin. This is based on my seeing 2 Bigha's in the STP
in July and only 1 Cannondale. In fact based on other recumbents that I saw
I would have to say that the Bigha is one of the top 10 selling bikes in the
North West.

Now if you like I could repeat that as my rebuttal of your rebuttal. Mine is
based on observations of the marketplace in action. Your comments are based
on personal conjecture.

I hearby declare that I have won.

William Higley, Sr.
Vision R-50
RANS Rocket

(Perhaps Lorenzo works for Bigha. His tactics might convince several of us
to go buy one of the bikes just to shut him up.)

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
> >
> >
> > That is up to the buyer
> >
> >
> >>You haven't answered that simple
> >>question.
> >
> >
> > It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
> >
> > Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
> >
> > How do you know no one is buying it?
> >
> >
>
> Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

[William Higley, Sr.]

As near as I know (based on personal observations) the Bigha is outselling
Cannondale by a 2:1 margin. This is based on my seeing 2 Bigha's in the STP
in July and only 1 Cannondale. In fact based on other recumbents that I saw
I would have to say that the Bigha is one of the top 10 selling bikes in the
North West.

Now if you like I could repeat that as my rebuttal of your rebuttal. Mine is
based on observations of the marketplace in action. Your comments are based
on personal conjecture.

I hearby declare that I have won.

William Higley, Sr.
Vision R-50
RANS Rocket

(Perhaps Lorenzo works for Bigha. His tactics might convince several of us
to go buy one of the bikes just to shut him up.)

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
> >
> >
> > That is up to the buyer
> >
> >
> >>You haven't answered that simple
> >>question.
> >
> >
> > It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
> >
> > Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
> >
> > How do you know no one is buying it?
> >
> >
>
> Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...

> >> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k.
> >> Yet it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was
> >> OBVIOUSLY not built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having
> >> trouble understanding?
> >
> > The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
> > this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
> > question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
> > buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
> > know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
> > off? Do you want the recumbent in dusty to be branded as over priced
> > and over hyped?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> WHY do you keep posting the SAME question OVER and OVER when it's been
> answered OVER and OVER again.
> Sorry, got to ignore you now.

Sorry MLB. Lorenzo L. Love wins this argument by a landslide. His post
above is right on the mark and no one has even come close to answering
it. I have greatly enjoyed his asking the same old question over and
over and noting with amusement all the weasel answers that he gets to
it. I am taking notes and will incorporate this style into some of my
posts too in the future if the occasion ever presents itself. He has
flummoxed the lot of you with his clarity of vision and incisiveness -
and above all with his stick-to-it-ness. I am in awe of him.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...

> >> You've stated about 100 times that no experienced rider will pay 3k.
> >> Yet it's been discussed HERE about 20 times that the Bigha was
> >> OBVIOUSLY not built for experienced benters. WHat part are you having
> >> trouble understanding?
> >
> > The people who know most about recumbents are the least likely to buy
> > this recumbent. Does that make it a good buy or a bad buy? Simple
> > question. Can you answer it? If it is a good buy, why is no one here
> > buying one? If it is a bad buy, why shouldn't other people who don't
> > know a lot about recumbent be warned? Do you want people to be ripped
> > off? Do you want the recumbent in dusty to be branded as over priced
> > and over hyped?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> WHY do you keep posting the SAME question OVER and OVER when it's been
> answered OVER and OVER again.
> Sorry, got to ignore you now.

Sorry MLB. Lorenzo L. Love wins this argument by a landslide. His post
above is right on the mark and no one has even come close to answering
it. I have greatly enjoyed his asking the same old question over and
over and noting with amusement all the weasel answers that he gets to
it. I am taking notes and will incorporate this style into some of my
posts too in the future if the occasion ever presents itself. He has
flummoxed the lot of you with his clarity of vision and incisiveness -
and above all with his stick-to-it-ness. I am in awe of him.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
> >
> >
> > That is up to the buyer
> >
> >
> >>You haven't answered that simple
> >>question.
> >
> >
> > It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
> >
> > Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
> >
> > How do you know no one is buying it?
> >
> >
>
> Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Just because nobody here has said they were doesn't mean someone isn't, lots
of people here who haven't chimed in

> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

Yea it is

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Leuck wrote:
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
> >
> >
> > That is up to the buyer
> >
> >
> >>You haven't answered that simple
> >>question.
> >
> >
> > It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
> >
> > Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
> >
> > How do you know no one is buying it?
> >
> >
>
> Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Just because nobody here has said they were doesn't mean someone isn't, lots
of people here who haven't chimed in

> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

Yea it is

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>>"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
>>>
>>>
>>>That is up to the buyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You haven't answered that simple
>>>>question.
>>>
>>>
>>>It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
>>>
>>> Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
>>>
>>>How do you know no one is buying it?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>
> Just because nobody here has said they were doesn't mean someone isn't, lots
> of people here who haven't chimed in
>
>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
> Yea it is
>
>

So people are ashamed to admit that they bought a Bigha? There are
people in this newsgroup who have bought just about every obscure
recumbent bicycle there is and are happy to talk about it. But not one
who has amitted that they have paid $3000.00 for a Bigha. Why is that?
Why have none of the people defending Bigha not bought one? Can it be
that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Mark Leuck wrote:
>>
>>>"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is the Bigha a good buy or a bad buy?
>>>
>>>
>>>That is up to the buyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You haven't answered that simple
>>>>question.
>>>
>>>
>>>It can't be answered except by the people who buy it
>>>
>>> Lot of people defending it, no one buying it. Why is that?
>>>
>>>How do you know no one is buying it?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Are you buying it? Is anyone here buying it?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>
> Just because nobody here has said they were doesn't mean someone isn't, lots
> of people here who haven't chimed in
>
>
>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
> Yea it is
>
>

So people are ashamed to admit that they bought a Bigha? There are
people in this newsgroup who have bought just about every obscure
recumbent bicycle there is and are happy to talk about it. But not one
who has amitted that they have paid $3000.00 for a Bigha. Why is that?
Why have none of the people defending Bigha not bought one? Can it be
that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>
>
>
> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to determine
> that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>
>
>
>

Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.

What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>
>
>
> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to determine
> that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>
>
>
>

Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.

What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to
>> determine that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
> bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
> own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.
>
> What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
> Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

So that's your sole criteria for determining that something is
overpriced, cost, weight, and (supposedly) speed? OK, that's fine,
that's how you determine the worth of a bike. But can't you understand
that there are other, equally valid criteria? Can't you understand that
some people might include comfort, electronics, fit and finish, and so on?
And I have just about determined that either you are deliberately
obtuse or mentally unable to understand direct statements. I have not
said that I will not buy one. Do you understand that? Do I need to
repeat it? What I have said, again and again, is that I do not make
decisions on buying any bike that I have never ridden. Do you understand
that?
And, as for my determining that the BiGHA is fairly priced: I
haven't. I have never said that. Until I ride one, until I get a chance
to look one over, see how it's put together, get a feel for how the bike
handles, I won't say if it's fairly priced or not - once I do get a
chance to try one out, though, then I'll be able to pass my own
sujective judgement on whether or not it's fairly priced.
I do not judge the worth of a bike solely on weight and price, and a
conjectured speed. Do you understand what I have written? Or are you
going to continue to make your accusations, continue to demand that I
answer the same questions over and over again, no matter how many times
I do answer them?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>
>>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to
>> determine that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
> bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
> own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.
>
> What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
> Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

So that's your sole criteria for determining that something is
overpriced, cost, weight, and (supposedly) speed? OK, that's fine,
that's how you determine the worth of a bike. But can't you understand
that there are other, equally valid criteria? Can't you understand that
some people might include comfort, electronics, fit and finish, and so on?
And I have just about determined that either you are deliberately
obtuse or mentally unable to understand direct statements. I have not
said that I will not buy one. Do you understand that? Do I need to
repeat it? What I have said, again and again, is that I do not make
decisions on buying any bike that I have never ridden. Do you understand
that?
And, as for my determining that the BiGHA is fairly priced: I
haven't. I have never said that. Until I ride one, until I get a chance
to look one over, see how it's put together, get a feel for how the bike
handles, I won't say if it's fairly priced or not - once I do get a
chance to try one out, though, then I'll be able to pass my own
sujective judgement on whether or not it's fairly priced.
I do not judge the worth of a bike solely on weight and price, and a
conjectured speed. Do you understand what I have written? Or are you
going to continue to make your accusations, continue to demand that I
answer the same questions over and over again, no matter how many times
I do answer them?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to
>>> determine that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
>> bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
>> own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.
>>
>> What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
>> Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> So that's your sole criteria for determining that something is
> overpriced, cost, weight, and (supposedly) speed? OK, that's fine,
> that's how you determine the worth of a bike. But can't you understand
> that there are other, equally valid criteria? Can't you understand that
> some people might include comfort, electronics, fit and finish, and so on?
> And I have just about determined that either you are deliberately
> obtuse or mentally unable to understand direct statements. I have not
> said that I will not buy one. Do you understand that? Do I need to
> repeat it? What I have said, again and again, is that I do not make
> decisions on buying any bike that I have never ridden. Do you understand
> that?
> And, as for my determining that the BiGHA is fairly priced: I haven't.
> I have never said that. Until I ride one, until I get a chance to look
> one over, see how it's put together, get a feel for how the bike
> handles, I won't say if it's fairly priced or not - once I do get a
> chance to try one out, though, then I'll be able to pass my own
> sujective judgement on whether or not it's fairly priced.
> I do not judge the worth of a bike solely on weight and price, and a
> conjectured speed. Do you understand what I have written? Or are you
> going to continue to make your accusations, continue to demand that I
> answer the same questions over and over again, no matter how many times
> I do answer them?
>
>
>
>
Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
"Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
honoring warranties."

Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can it be that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could you, and will you, tell just what criteria you use to
>>> determine that the BiGHA is overpriced?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Heavier and slower then bikes much cheaper. Costs more then similar
>> bikes. No one who has reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their
>> own money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for honoring warranties.
>>
>> What is your criteria for determining that the Bigha is fairly priced?
>> Especially given that you will not buy one yourself?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> So that's your sole criteria for determining that something is
> overpriced, cost, weight, and (supposedly) speed? OK, that's fine,
> that's how you determine the worth of a bike. But can't you understand
> that there are other, equally valid criteria? Can't you understand that
> some people might include comfort, electronics, fit and finish, and so on?
> And I have just about determined that either you are deliberately
> obtuse or mentally unable to understand direct statements. I have not
> said that I will not buy one. Do you understand that? Do I need to
> repeat it? What I have said, again and again, is that I do not make
> decisions on buying any bike that I have never ridden. Do you understand
> that?
> And, as for my determining that the BiGHA is fairly priced: I haven't.
> I have never said that. Until I ride one, until I get a chance to look
> one over, see how it's put together, get a feel for how the bike
> handles, I won't say if it's fairly priced or not - once I do get a
> chance to try one out, though, then I'll be able to pass my own
> sujective judgement on whether or not it's fairly priced.
> I do not judge the worth of a bike solely on weight and price, and a
> conjectured speed. Do you understand what I have written? Or are you
> going to continue to make your accusations, continue to demand that I
> answer the same questions over and over again, no matter how many times
> I do answer them?
>
>
>
>
Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
"Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
honoring warranties."

Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[a&b]

LoLo,
WTF do you care and are so fervently attacking the bike?
If you want one so bad, just drive to the nearest dealer and pick it up.
BTW, did you ever get your Aero?
bill, neener, g

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:

>
> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
> honoring warranties."
>
> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?

[a&b]

LoLo,
WTF do you care and are so fervently attacking the bike?
If you want one so bad, just drive to the nearest dealer and pick it up.
BTW, did you ever get your Aero?
bill, neener, g

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:

>
> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
> honoring warranties."
>
> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
> honoring warranties."
>
> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love


Come on, Lorenzo, at least try to be somewhat consistent. Your
criteria for something being overpriced depends at all on what reviewers
have said, or are willing to pay for it? And now it includes
"warranties" of products produced by a prior company?
Get real. Previously you did nothing but complain about the weight,
speed and price. Now you're trying to bring this nonsense in?
I asked what *your* criteria is, not what was the opinion of some
other reviewer, if someone else wanted to pay money for it. And do you
really think anyone believes that now you are using as your criteria for
something being overpriced, that it depends on a connection with a
company that no longer exists, that made a different bike than the one
you're judging?
At least you're consistent with that stupid "defending this expensive
bike" crap. I do not defend, nor do I attack, a bike that I have never
seen nor ridden. No matter what another reviewer has said, nor what
"warranties" a different company did or didn't honor.
Sheesh, Lorenzo.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
> honoring warranties."
>
> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love


Come on, Lorenzo, at least try to be somewhat consistent. Your
criteria for something being overpriced depends at all on what reviewers
have said, or are willing to pay for it? And now it includes
"warranties" of products produced by a prior company?
Get real. Previously you did nothing but complain about the weight,
speed and price. Now you're trying to bring this nonsense in?
I asked what *your* criteria is, not what was the opinion of some
other reviewer, if someone else wanted to pay money for it. And do you
really think anyone believes that now you are using as your criteria for
something being overpriced, that it depends on a connection with a
company that no longer exists, that made a different bike than the one
you're judging?
At least you're consistent with that stupid "defending this expensive
bike" crap. I do not defend, nor do I attack, a bike that I have never
seen nor ridden. No matter what another reviewer has said, nor what
"warranties" a different company did or didn't honor.
Sheesh, Lorenzo.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[billydean]

Your killin me. Gotta kill file all of you.

[billydean]

Your killin me. Gotta kill file all of you.

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
>
> So people are ashamed to admit that they bought a Bigha? There are
> people in this newsgroup who have bought just about every obscure
> recumbent bicycle there is and are happy to talk about it. But not one
> who has amitted that they have paid $3000.00 for a Bigha. Why is that?
> Why have none of the people defending Bigha not bought one? Can it be
> that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?

I never said that, in my opinion since the bike is fairly new most here
haven't had the opportunity to purchase or even see one. I have no doubt
that someone will in the near future since people here have posted
experiences about every other bike out there

Would I buy one? Nope but I already have 2 bents and that type isn't my
style. I would also not buy several bikes of that kind for the same reason.
I prefer low racers

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
...
>
> So people are ashamed to admit that they bought a Bigha? There are
> people in this newsgroup who have bought just about every obscure
> recumbent bicycle there is and are happy to talk about it. But not one
> who has amitted that they have paid $3000.00 for a Bigha. Why is that?
> Why have none of the people defending Bigha not bought one? Can it be
> that even they know that it is grossly overpriced?

I never said that, in my opinion since the bike is fairly new most here
haven't had the opportunity to purchase or even see one. I have no doubt
that someone will in the near future since people here have posted
experiences about every other bike out there

Would I buy one? Nope but I already have 2 bents and that type isn't my
style. I would also not buy several bikes of that kind for the same reason.
I prefer low racers

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
>> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
>> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
>> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
>> honoring warranties."
>>
>> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
>
> Come on, Lorenzo, at least try to be somewhat consistent. Your
> criteria for something being overpriced depends at all on what reviewers
> have said, or are willing to pay for it? And now it includes
> "warranties" of products produced by a prior company?
> Get real. Previously you did nothing but complain about the weight,
> speed and price. Now you're trying to bring this nonsense in?
> I asked what *your* criteria is, not what was the opinion of some
> other reviewer, if someone else wanted to pay money for it. And do you
> really think anyone believes that now you are using as your criteria for
> something being overpriced, that it depends on a connection with a
> company that no longer exists, that made a different bike than the one
> you're judging?
> At least you're consistent with that stupid "defending this expensive
> bike" crap. I do not defend, nor do I attack, a bike that I have never
> seen nor ridden. No matter what another reviewer has said, nor what
> "warranties" a different company did or didn't honor.
> Sheesh, Lorenzo.
>

If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us? Defend
Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them. It costs too much
for a slow heavy bike, no matter how nicely finished. The company is
largely made up of people who have already screwed over too many people.
If you don't think these factors are important, then buy one. But you
aren't going to are you?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> Sole criteria? Can you read? Let me say it slowly:
>> "Costs more then similar bikes. No one who has
>> reviewed it is willing to pay for it with their own
>> money. Sold by people with a bad reputation for
>> honoring warranties."
>>
>> Why are you so fervently defending this expensive bike?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
>
> Come on, Lorenzo, at least try to be somewhat consistent. Your
> criteria for something being overpriced depends at all on what reviewers
> have said, or are willing to pay for it? And now it includes
> "warranties" of products produced by a prior company?
> Get real. Previously you did nothing but complain about the weight,
> speed and price. Now you're trying to bring this nonsense in?
> I asked what *your* criteria is, not what was the opinion of some
> other reviewer, if someone else wanted to pay money for it. And do you
> really think anyone believes that now you are using as your criteria for
> something being overpriced, that it depends on a connection with a
> company that no longer exists, that made a different bike than the one
> you're judging?
> At least you're consistent with that stupid "defending this expensive
> bike" crap. I do not defend, nor do I attack, a bike that I have never
> seen nor ridden. No matter what another reviewer has said, nor what
> "warranties" a different company did or didn't honor.
> Sheesh, Lorenzo.
>

If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us? Defend
Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them. It costs too much
for a slow heavy bike, no matter how nicely finished. The company is
largely made up of people who have already screwed over too many people.
If you don't think these factors are important, then buy one. But you
aren't going to are you?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
> dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us?
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
What does it tell us? About your criteria for determining if a bike
is overpriced? Nothing. Remember, you're the guy who doesn't feel that
actually riding the bike is all that important.
But I do lend some credence to a review by a person who has ridden a
bike. It matters little to me if he buys it or not - there are lots of
reasons that people might not buy something, even if they like it. If
they won't buy it because they found something objectionable about it
during their test, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
And I give no credence to the opinion of someone who has not seen,
much less ridden any bike.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
> dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us?
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
What does it tell us? About your criteria for determining if a bike
is overpriced? Nothing. Remember, you're the guy who doesn't feel that
actually riding the bike is all that important.
But I do lend some credence to a review by a person who has ridden a
bike. It matters little to me if he buys it or not - there are lots of
reasons that people might not buy something, even if they like it. If
they won't buy it because they found something objectionable about it
during their test, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
And I give no credence to the opinion of someone who has not seen,
much less ridden any bike.




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
>> dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us?
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
> What does it tell us? About your criteria for determining if a bike is
> overpriced? Nothing. Remember, you're the guy who doesn't feel that
> actually riding the bike is all that important.
> But I do lend some credence to a review by a person who has ridden a
> bike. It matters little to me if he buys it or not - there are lots of
> reasons that people might not buy something, even if they like it. If
> they won't buy it because they found something objectionable about it
> during their test, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
> And I give no credence to the opinion of someone who has not seen,
> much less ridden any bike.
>
>
>
>

What I actually wrote and you edited was:
> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us? Defend Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them. It costs too much for a slow heavy bike, no matter how nicely finished. The company is largely made up of people who have already screwed over too many people. If you don't think these factors are important, then buy one. But you aren't going to are you?

Lot of people are eager to let some one else spend money, but still no
one here willing to spend their own on a Bigha.

Have you seen or much less ridden a Bigha? What credence should we give
to your opinion?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought
>> dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us?
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
> What does it tell us? About your criteria for determining if a bike is
> overpriced? Nothing. Remember, you're the guy who doesn't feel that
> actually riding the bike is all that important.
> But I do lend some credence to a review by a person who has ridden a
> bike. It matters little to me if he buys it or not - there are lots of
> reasons that people might not buy something, even if they like it. If
> they won't buy it because they found something objectionable about it
> during their test, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
> And I give no credence to the opinion of someone who has not seen,
> much less ridden any bike.
>
>
>
>

What I actually wrote and you edited was:
> If people who have test ridden it and in some cases who have bought dozens of different bikes won't buy one, what does that tell us? Defend Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them. It costs too much for a slow heavy bike, no matter how nicely finished. The company is largely made up of people who have already screwed over too many people. If you don't think these factors are important, then buy one. But you aren't going to are you?

Lot of people are eager to let some one else spend money, but still no
one here willing to spend their own on a Bigha.

Have you seen or much less ridden a Bigha? What credence should we give
to your opinion?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
> I think we're /all/ missing the point here. Which is:
>
> Why should anyone give a flying fuc*k whether anyone else on the newsgroup
> would buy a BigHa?
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========
>
>
>
UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT didn't
offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the little thing
about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and customers hanging and
then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
flying whatever.
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...
> I think we're /all/ missing the point here. Which is:
>
> Why should anyone give a flying fuc*k whether anyone else on the newsgroup
> would buy a BigHa?
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========
>
>
>
UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT didn't
offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the little thing
about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and customers hanging and
then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
flying whatever.
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[Dave Larrington]

John Rooker wrote:

> UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
> asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
> interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
> essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
> didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
> little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
> customers hanging and
> then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
> flying whatever.

Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
the question had been:

"What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
forthcoming.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

John Rooker wrote:

> UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
> asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
> interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
> essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
> didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
> little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
> customers hanging and
> then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
> flying whatever.

Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
the question had been:

"What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
forthcoming.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...

> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
> the question had been:
>
> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
> forthcoming.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========
>
>
>
Dave,

With this group..I sort of doubt it. :)
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[John Rooker]

In article >,
says...

> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
> the question had been:
>
> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
> forthcoming.
>
> Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
> ================================================== =========
> Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
> http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
> ================================================== =========
>
>
>
Dave,

With this group..I sort of doubt it. :)
--
___________________
John Rooker KC2KQT
Rochester, NY

[Scott]

Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.

Ride well, amigo.

Scott





Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > Your faith in hands-on experience is like that of a child, a dumb
> > child, who has to see and touch in order to believe. Those of us with
> > some level and ability to think abstractly do not need such
> > "realities". Our thinking has progressed to a level which you can
> > scarcely comprehend let alone respond to.
> >
> > Mr. Love pointed out to even one so deaf and dumb as yourself the
> > comparative values of the different bikes based on price. Everyone in
> > this newsgroup knows what he is talking about with respect to these
> > various bikes except you. The main point was and is the $3000., but
> > only someone as dense as you would somehow think something else was at
> > issue. Like you said, and like I said before you, there is no
> > complexity here. But how to get you to focus on the one simple thing
> > is the ever continuing issue.
> >
> > But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> > learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> > entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> > responding to. Note my example and follow.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>
> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
> in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
> the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
> opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
> instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
> who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
> but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
> much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
> and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
> have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
> experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
> certainly helps.
> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
> money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
> the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
> others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
> "correct".
> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
> out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
> total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
> couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
> bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

[Scott]

Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.

Ride well, amigo.

Scott





Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > Your faith in hands-on experience is like that of a child, a dumb
> > child, who has to see and touch in order to believe. Those of us with
> > some level and ability to think abstractly do not need such
> > "realities". Our thinking has progressed to a level which you can
> > scarcely comprehend let alone respond to.
> >
> > Mr. Love pointed out to even one so deaf and dumb as yourself the
> > comparative values of the different bikes based on price. Everyone in
> > this newsgroup knows what he is talking about with respect to these
> > various bikes except you. The main point was and is the $3000., but
> > only someone as dense as you would somehow think something else was at
> > issue. Like you said, and like I said before you, there is no
> > complexity here. But how to get you to focus on the one simple thing
> > is the ever continuing issue.
> >
> > But now that I am reprimanding you, when the hell are you going to
> > learn to edit a post? It is not necessary to always be repeating the
> > entire post of what has gone before, only that part that you are
> > responding to. Note my example and follow.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I have taken your advice (not your command) and edited my reply.
>
> This is not a matter of "belief". No one is asking anyone to "believe"
> in the merits (or lack of same) in the BigHA. What is being discussed is
> the validity of an opinion regarding the merits of the BigHA when the
> opinion contains no actual experience with the bike. How valid, for
> instance, is the opinion of the taste of an apple pie from the person
> who has never eaten it? Sure, you can "believe" that it's good or bad,
> but is that going to result in an accurate assessment of the pie?
> The main point is not the price. There are many bikes costing that
> much and more, and yet they are not being attacked. "Even one so deaf
> and dumb as yourself" should have realized that. The main point, as I
> have pointed out numerous times, is that yes, you do not need any actual
> experience to have an opinion, but for it to reflect reality, it
> certainly helps.
> Here's an example: I believe that a TiRush is not worth the extra
> money that it costs in comparison to a Gold Rush. I don't believe that
> the TiRush is whatever-multiplier better than a RANS Rocket.
> Perfectly acceptable opinion - it might even be shared by many
> others. It might even be correct, so far as opinions can or need to be
> "correct".
> But how much validity can there be to such an opinion, when I point
> out that I have never ridden a TiRush (I have seen a couple, though). My
> total riding time on a Gold Rush was about 15 minutes, and that was a
> couple of years ago. And I've ridden a Rocket perhaps twice that amount.
> Personally, I would value the opinions of those who have ridden those
> bikes much more than those who haven't. How about you?

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:29:20 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
> wrote:

>I think we're /all/ missing the point here. Which is:
>
>Why should anyone give a flying fuc*k whether anyone else on the newsgroup
>would buy a BigHa?

The hell with BigHa.... I would like to know what a flying fuc*k is.
I know that the * is a wildcard placeholder. So -- what is a fuc*k?

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:29:20 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
> wrote:

>I think we're /all/ missing the point here. Which is:
>
>Why should anyone give a flying fuc*k whether anyone else on the newsgroup
>would buy a BigHa?

The hell with BigHa.... I would like to know what a flying fuc*k is.
I know that the * is a wildcard placeholder. So -- what is a fuc*k?

[Dave Larrington]

Zippy the Pinhead wrote:

> The hell with BigHa.... I would like to know what a flying fuc*k is.
> I know that the * is a wildcard placeholder. So -- what is a fuc*k?

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/information/style-guide.html and look for
"swearing".

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

Zippy the Pinhead wrote:

> The hell with BigHa.... I would like to know what a flying fuc*k is.
> I know that the * is a wildcard placeholder. So -- what is a fuc*k?

http://www.therockalltimes.co.uk/information/style-guide.html and look for
"swearing".

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>
>>> Defend Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them.
>>
>
> I haven't defended it. I don't recall saying much if anything nice at
> all about it.
>
>
>>
>> Have you seen or much less ridden a Bigha? What credence should we
>> give to your opinion?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> I was right - you do have a mental problem with this, if you really
> don't recall my saying, repeatedly, that I have never seen nor ridden a
> BiGHA. And I have repeatedly said that the opinion of someone who hasn't
> seen nor ridden any bike, and that includes the BiGHA, should be given
> no credence.
> Are you clear on this now?
>
>
>
>

So why do you keep giving us your opinion which you amit has no
credence? The people who have seen and ridden a Bigha are not willing to
pay their own $3000.00 for one. Do you give their opinions any credence?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>
>>> Defend Bigha all you want, it isn't making people buy them.
>>
>
> I haven't defended it. I don't recall saying much if anything nice at
> all about it.
>
>
>>
>> Have you seen or much less ridden a Bigha? What credence should we
>> give to your opinion?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> I was right - you do have a mental problem with this, if you really
> don't recall my saying, repeatedly, that I have never seen nor ridden a
> BiGHA. And I have repeatedly said that the opinion of someone who hasn't
> seen nor ridden any bike, and that includes the BiGHA, should be given
> no credence.
> Are you clear on this now?
>
>
>
>

So why do you keep giving us your opinion which you amit has no
credence? The people who have seen and ridden a Bigha are not willing to
pay their own $3000.00 for one. Do you give their opinions any credence?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Dave Larrington wrote:
> John Rooker wrote:
>
>
>>UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
>>asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
>>interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
>>essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
>>didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
>>little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
>>customers hanging and
>>then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
>>flying whatever.
>
>
> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
> the question had been:
>
> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
> forthcoming.
>

Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
$3000.00 of their own money on it?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Dave Larrington wrote:
> John Rooker wrote:
>
>
>>UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
>>asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
>>interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
>>essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
>>didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
>>little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
>>customers hanging and
>>then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
>>flying whatever.
>
>
> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
> the question had been:
>
> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
> forthcoming.
>

Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
$3000.00 of their own money on it?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

> Dave Larrington wrote:
>> John Rooker wrote:
>>
>>
>>> UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
>>> asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
>>> interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
>>> essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
>>> didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
>>> little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
>>> customers hanging and
>>> then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
>>> flying whatever.
>>
>>
>> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
>> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
>> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
>> the question had been:
>>
>> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
>> forthcoming.
>>
>
> Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
> $3000.00 of their own money on it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
>
>
Ok, that's another one for the kill file.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

> Dave Larrington wrote:
>> John Rooker wrote:
>>
>>
>>> UMM, maybe because it is a recumbent newsgroup? The same question is
>>> asked about just about any new recumbent. It's just a little more
>>> interesting with the Bigha seeing if anyone will spend 3k on what is
>>> essentially a high end BikeE and offers little that the BikeE AT
>>> didn't offer at less than half the price. Oh yeah, and there's the
>>> little thing about BikeE closing shop and leaving dealers and
>>> customers hanging and
>>> then Bigha opening up before the dust settled. That's why we give a
>>> flying whatever.
>>
>>
>> Given the number of responses to the question and, perhaps more pertinently,
>> the number of times the same question has been asked /without/ garnering a
>> response, though, it rather looks as though no-one *does* care. Perhaps if
>> the question had been:
>>
>> "What does The Panel think of the BigHa" then more responses might have been
>> forthcoming.
>>
>
> Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
> $3000.00 of their own money on it?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>
>
>
>
Ok, that's another one for the kill file.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Edward Dolan]

(Scott) wrote in message >...

> Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
> response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
>
> Ride well, amigo.
>
> Scott

Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varner who is responsible
for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
thing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

(Scott) wrote in message >...

> Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
> response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
>
> Ride well, amigo.
>
> Scott

Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varner who is responsible
for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
thing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> So why do you keep giving us your opinion which you amit has no
> credence?

I have not given my opinion regarding the BiGHA. I've not said
anything good or bad about it. Remember, I'm the one who hasn't seen nor
ridden the BiGHA, who doesn't have an opinion on it. Once I've seen and
hopefully ridden one, then I'll have an opinion.
Got it now?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> So why do you keep giving us your opinion which you amit has no
> credence?

I have not given my opinion regarding the BiGHA. I've not said
anything good or bad about it. Remember, I'm the one who hasn't seen nor
ridden the BiGHA, who doesn't have an opinion on it. Once I've seen and
hopefully ridden one, then I'll have an opinion.
Got it now?




--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> (Scott) wrote in message >...
>
>
>>Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
>>response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
>>
>>Ride well, amigo.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>
> Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
> believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varner who is responsible
> for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
> thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
> would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
> thing.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>

A while back you lambasted me several times because I wasn't editing
my responses enough to suit you. I think you used the phrase, "when are
you going to learn..." and so on.
So, I followed your advice. And while I was at it, I edited the
subject line to reflect the topic. In this particular case, I was
responding to one of your posts about "realities". And if I remember
correctly, it had something to do with people being able to judge
something they had no actual experience with, in particular being able
to condemn a bicycle they have never seen nor ridden.
You tossed in some stuff about children and "realities". This new
subject line reflects the actual subject. I understand that you believe
that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
continue to be just that.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> (Scott) wrote in message >...
>
>
>>Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
>>response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
>>
>>Ride well, amigo.
>>
>>Scott
>>
>
> Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
> believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varner who is responsible
> for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
> thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
> would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
> thing.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>

A while back you lambasted me several times because I wasn't editing
my responses enough to suit you. I think you used the phrase, "when are
you going to learn..." and so on.
So, I followed your advice. And while I was at it, I edited the
subject line to reflect the topic. In this particular case, I was
responding to one of your posts about "realities". And if I remember
correctly, it had something to do with people being able to judge
something they had no actual experience with, in particular being able
to condemn a bicycle they have never seen nor ridden.
You tossed in some stuff about children and "realities". This new
subject line reflects the actual subject. I understand that you believe
that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
continue to be just that.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> So you have no opinion and nothing to say but you keep on saying it
>> over and over again. Is that about right?
>>
>>
>
> Nope, not right at all. But I've just about given up on trying to
> explain things to you. Either you are deliberately being obtuse, or it's
> a mental condition. Either way, I don't have the time, inclination,
> and/or medical training to help you out.
>
>
>

Isn't it time for you to start names calling again?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Larry Varney wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>
>> So you have no opinion and nothing to say but you keep on saying it
>> over and over again. Is that about right?
>>
>>
>
> Nope, not right at all. But I've just about given up on trying to
> explain things to you. Either you are deliberately being obtuse, or it's
> a mental condition. Either way, I don't have the time, inclination,
> and/or medical training to help you out.
>
>
>

Isn't it time for you to start names calling again?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Mark Leuck]

"Ian" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
> > $3000.00 of their own money on it?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> http://www.catrike.co.uk

I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
$3000 for a BigHa"

;)

[Mark Leuck]

"Ian" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
> > $3000.00 of their own money on it?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> http://www.catrike.co.uk

I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
$3000 for a BigHa"

;)

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> This new
>subject line reflects the actual subject. I understand that you believe
> that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
> subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
> very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
> continue to be just that.
>

It would be nice if you would label the new thread you just created as "Off
Topic" or "O.T." so the unwitting will not think it's about Mr. Dolan and
his new "Realities" bike computer. Some people get all upset if they think
they have been duped into reading something O.T.. At least one even gets
upset just because an off topic thread exists. Personally I think it is a
good idea not to start O.T. threads willy nilly, but to attempt to keep them
contained. As long as it's off topic I say let it stay stay where it is and
don't multiply it.

If anyone had the stamina to read this far into this BiGHA thread they
probably are too word weary to complain if O.T. material pops in and out of
the thread. But starting a new O.T. threads and not labeling it as such is
certain to offend some readers.

skip

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> This new
>subject line reflects the actual subject. I understand that you believe
> that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
> subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
> very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
> continue to be just that.
>

It would be nice if you would label the new thread you just created as "Off
Topic" or "O.T." so the unwitting will not think it's about Mr. Dolan and
his new "Realities" bike computer. Some people get all upset if they think
they have been duped into reading something O.T.. At least one even gets
upset just because an off topic thread exists. Personally I think it is a
good idea not to start O.T. threads willy nilly, but to attempt to keep them
contained. As long as it's off topic I say let it stay stay where it is and
don't multiply it.

If anyone had the stamina to read this far into this BiGHA thread they
probably are too word weary to complain if O.T. material pops in and out of
the thread. But starting a new O.T. threads and not labeling it as such is
certain to offend some readers.

skip

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > (Scott) wrote in message >...
> >
> >
> >>Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
> >>response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
> >>
> >>Ride well, amigo.
> >>
> >>Scott
> >>
> >
> > Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
> > believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varney who is responsible
> > for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
> > thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
> > would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
> > thing.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
>
> A while back you lambasted me several times because I wasn't editing
> my responses enough to suit you. I think you used the phrase, "when are
> you going to learn..." and so on.
> So, I followed your advice. And while I was at it, I edited the
> subject line to reflect the topic. In this particular case, I was
> responding to one of your posts about "realities". And if I remember
> correctly, it had something to do with people being able to judge
> something they had no actual experience with, in particular being able
> to condemn a bicycle they have never seen nor ridden.
> You tossed in some stuff about children and "realities". This new
> subject line reflects the actual subject.

Up to this point you make sense. Where you went astray was to use my
name without my permission in the subject line for your new thread. It
was not necessary and was done for spite. I guarantee you that I could
use your name in a subject line for a thread in such a way that you
would not be pleased. No one else does this sort of thing except in
the spirit of banter. In case you didn't know it, you and I never
banter.

> I understand that you believe
> that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
> subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
> very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
> continue to be just that.

I have already posted my thoughts on this and we disagree about it.
But it is my belief that those who do not know how to edit a post also
do not know how to post a new subject line either. You proved it to
me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > (Scott) wrote in message >...
> >
> >
> >>Larry, you are my hero! I love your, calm, mature, respectful
> >>response to the childish ranting of El Dolan.
> >>
> >>Ride well, amigo.
> >>
> >>Scott
> >>
> >
> > Would someone explain to me what my name is doing on this thread? I
> > believe it was your "mature, respectful" Mr. Varney who is responsible
> > for this outrage. Other than protesting the subject title of this
> > thread I have declined to post anything here, but if I were to post I
> > would have a few choice words to say about those who do this sort of
> > thing.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
>
> A while back you lambasted me several times because I wasn't editing
> my responses enough to suit you. I think you used the phrase, "when are
> you going to learn..." and so on.
> So, I followed your advice. And while I was at it, I edited the
> subject line to reflect the topic. In this particular case, I was
> responding to one of your posts about "realities". And if I remember
> correctly, it had something to do with people being able to judge
> something they had no actual experience with, in particular being able
> to condemn a bicycle they have never seen nor ridden.
> You tossed in some stuff about children and "realities". This new
> subject line reflects the actual subject.

Up to this point you make sense. Where you went astray was to use my
name without my permission in the subject line for your new thread. It
was not necessary and was done for spite. I guarantee you that I could
use your name in a subject line for a thread in such a way that you
would not be pleased. No one else does this sort of thing except in
the spirit of banter. In case you didn't know it, you and I never
banter.

> I understand that you believe
> that subject lines should not ever be changed to reflect the actual
> subject, but until you become either the owner of the internet or at the
> very least the moderator of this particular news group, your belief will
> continue to be just that.

I have already posted my thoughts on this and we disagree about it.
But it is my belief that those who do not know how to edit a post also
do not know how to post a new subject line either. You proved it to
me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Ian]

Mark Leuck must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>> Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
>>> $3000.00 of their own money on it?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> http://www.catrike.co.uk
>
> I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
> $3000 for a BigHa"
>
> ;)
>
>
OK, I WILL PAY $3000 FOR A BIGHA!

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Ian]

Mark Leuck must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>> Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
>>> $3000.00 of their own money on it?
>>>
>>> Lorenzo L. Love
>>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>> Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> http://www.catrike.co.uk
>
> I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
> $3000 for a BigHa"
>
> ;)
>
>
OK, I WILL PAY $3000 FOR A BIGHA!

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:
> Mark Leuck must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>"Ian" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>>Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
>>>>$3000.00 of their own money on it?
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ian
>>>
>>>http://www.catrike.co.uk
>>
>>I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
>>$3000 for a BigHa"
>>
>>;)
>>
>>
>
> OK, I WILL PAY $3000 FOR A BIGHA!
>

Do you have it on order? What is the delivery date?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:
> Mark Leuck must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>"Ian" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>>Does any one on The Panel think well enough of the Bigha to spend
>>>>$3000.00 of their own money on it?
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>>Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, that's another one for the kill file.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ian
>>>
>>>http://www.catrike.co.uk
>>
>>I think it will stop with him when someone finally says "Yes I will pay
>>$3000 for a BigHa"
>>
>>;)
>>
>>
>
> OK, I WILL PAY $3000 FOR A BIGHA!
>

Do you have it on order? What is the delivery date?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"You can fool half of the people all of the time and that's enough to
make a good living."
W.C. Fields