Negative press

[Dave Harney]

Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance.
The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------
September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper
since 1883"



Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.



Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.



By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff



Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still
fail to heed local stop signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was
hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling across Western Avenue without
stopping.



Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style
bikers than defiant teenagers.



Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the
ditch to avoid careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the
intersection of Terminal and East River roads.



Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection
outlet counting the number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping.
Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without stopping, or even looking to
see if any cars are coming Bartel said.



"They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys
in the spandex pants and the funny shoes that want to look like Lance
Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the majority of the
people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand
miles they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north
on some endless rail line, but they're not."



The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road
from unmarked to 35 mph, partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.



Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the
trail, but even the stop signs on the roads.



"There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck
isn't going to stop, it can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It'
s asinine."



The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.



Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring
he issues standard warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway
C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port Washington, regularly garnering
complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude biker
behaviors.



The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their
ride in Mequon, McCormick said.



"We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don
't obey signals and so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing
issue for several years with us, so as soon as we get the first complaint of
the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
and let them know any complaints will result in citations."



There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly
because the warnings have worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to
ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed by a deputy.



McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols
along Terminal and East River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from
residents or the county.



County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints
about bicyclists neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River
roads intersection, but said he has observed infractions himself and is
aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.



The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road
at that stretch in the town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington,
and Struck said preliminary indications are favorable for the first grant.



The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail
to be taken off-road at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road
and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to where it picks up as an
off-road trail now.



Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail
lets out onto Terminal Road would remain largely unchanged.



Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday
regarding possible enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.



------------------------------------

[Dave Harney]

The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
dubious situation.


"MLB" > wrote in message
. 4.25...
> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
> > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
> > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > any suggestions?
> >
>
> Obey the traffic laws?

[Dave Harney]

The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
to change the law to get bikes off the roads.

Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
dubious situation.


"MLB" > wrote in message
. 4.25...
> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
> > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
> > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > any suggestions?
> >
>
> Obey the traffic laws?

[WP]

I've been on both sides of this issue. Where I've almost gotten hit by cars
but, I've almost hit a bicyclist that ran a stop sign. He was lucky that there
wasn't a car coming the other way on this country road as that was the only
direction I could go without hitting him. He came out when I was 2 car lengths
or less away from the intersection doing the posted speed limit of 45 mph. I
have also seen it where the driver's of the cars were at fault. Boils down to,
obey the law. If you stop, you more and likely won't get hit but, if you run
the stop sign or stop light (when red) and you get hit whether that be by car
or bike, your at fault. Unfortunately, whoever is on the bike is usually the
one that really pays for it.


Dave Harney wrote:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
> been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
> more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
> users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
> dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
>> > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
>> > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
>> > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
>> > any suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?

[WP]

I've been on both sides of this issue. Where I've almost gotten hit by cars
but, I've almost hit a bicyclist that ran a stop sign. He was lucky that there
wasn't a car coming the other way on this country road as that was the only
direction I could go without hitting him. He came out when I was 2 car lengths
or less away from the intersection doing the posted speed limit of 45 mph. I
have also seen it where the driver's of the cars were at fault. Boils down to,
obey the law. If you stop, you more and likely won't get hit but, if you run
the stop sign or stop light (when red) and you get hit whether that be by car
or bike, your at fault. Unfortunately, whoever is on the bike is usually the
one that really pays for it.


Dave Harney wrote:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
> been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
> more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
> users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
> dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
>> > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
>> > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
>> > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
>> > any suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?

[MLB]

"Dave Harney" > wrote in
:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
> laws. This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the
> bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who
> wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category.
> Currently, in Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under
> the law for using public roads. These types of news stories are
> usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance
> factor for motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes
> off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
> advocate of doing just that. This type of article does little to
> promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same
> roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article
> is some better signs for motorists to slow down and some brush cleared
> for better visibility. The more important issue is the one of raising
> awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they
> wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude
> instead of just more law enforcement in a dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This
>> > is all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a
>> > short distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent
>> > car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board
>> > meeting - any suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

Well that's YOUR point. THEIR point seems to be that a percentage of
bikers are blowing the stop signs and causing problems with near misses.
Near misses that are much liklier to kill the biker than they are the
driver. I'm not sure that the most important thing is raising awareness,
vs surviving the intersection.

[MLB]

"Dave Harney" > wrote in
:

> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
> laws. This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the
> bike-hostile motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who
> wear Lycra have been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category.
> Currently, in Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under
> the law for using public roads. These types of news stories are
> usually encouraged by groups that view cyclists as a mere nuisance
> factor for motorists. They would like to change the law to get bikes
> off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
> advocate of doing just that. This type of article does little to
> promote overall safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same
> roads. What is needed at the intersection in question in the article
> is some better signs for motorists to slow down and some brush cleared
> for better visibility. The more important issue is the one of raising
> awareness about cycles as valid users of public roads - even if they
> wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a healthy problem solving attitude
> instead of just more law enforcement in a dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
>> "Dave Harney" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This
>> > is all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a
>> > short distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent
>> > car traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board
>> > meeting - any suggestions?
>> >
>>
>> Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

Well that's YOUR point. THEIR point seems to be that a percentage of
bikers are blowing the stop signs and causing problems with near misses.
Near misses that are much liklier to kill the biker than they are the
driver. I'm not sure that the most important thing is raising awareness,
vs surviving the intersection.

[pjclarkesq]

I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the
Editor" of some local news papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can
get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a hell of alot more
courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes
they each wear.
"Dave Harney" > wrote in message
...
> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
> been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
> more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
> users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
> dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
> > "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
> > > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
> > > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > > any suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

[pjclarkesq]

I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the
Editor" of some local news papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can
get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a hell of alot more
courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes
they each wear.
"Dave Harney" > wrote in message
...
> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
> been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
> more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
> users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
> dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
> > "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
> > > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
> > > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > > any suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

[Mikael Seierup]

"pjclarkesq" skrev...
> I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the
> Editor" of some local news papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can
> get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a hell of alot more
> courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes
> they each wear.

Well cardrivers always rag on bicycles and pedestrians.
Pedestrians complain about cars and bicycles... etc.

That being said I see a lot of bicycles blowing red lights (in Copenhagen)
and violating other trafficlaws. A large part of them are either
bike messengers or people out excercising (as in lycra and roadbike/MTB.)
But these are probably a lost cause anyway no matter how many
new restrictions the council comes up with. It wont deter them.

cheers
Mikael

[Mikael Seierup]

"pjclarkesq" skrev...
> I think your reply is pretty eloquent. Why not make it a "Letter to the
> Editor" of some local news papers. It's amazing how rampant bigotry can
> get. It's been my experience the most cyclists are a hell of alot more
> courteous to others than most auto drivers, not matter what kind of shoes
> they each wear.

Well cardrivers always rag on bicycles and pedestrians.
Pedestrians complain about cars and bicycles... etc.

That being said I see a lot of bicycles blowing red lights (in Copenhagen)
and violating other trafficlaws. A large part of them are either
bike messengers or people out excercising (as in lycra and roadbike/MTB.)
But these are probably a lost cause anyway no matter how many
new restrictions the council comes up with. It wont deter them.

cheers
Mikael

[Holger Apfel]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:04:50 GMT, "Dave Harney" >
wrote:

>The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
>This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
>motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
>been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
>Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
>public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
>that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
>to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
>Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
>of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
>safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
>the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
>motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
>more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
>users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
>healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
>dubious situation.
>

Maybe you can get some meber of your club (preferably retired - time
consuming) to sit besides the ominous crossing and do a real count of
the bikers and their behaviour. So you have some numbers for yourself
together with a witness. BEst thing would be to do it for at least a
whole week so you can check for different behavior on weekends etc.
My dad-in-law did this and it provided us with a lot of ammo.

Greetings

[Holger Apfel]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:04:50 GMT, "Dave Harney" >
wrote:

>The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic laws.
>This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
>motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
>been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
>Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
>public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by groups
>that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would like
>to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
>Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong advocate
>of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
>safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed at
>the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
>motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
>more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
>users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
>healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
>dubious situation.
>

Maybe you can get some meber of your club (preferably retired - time
consuming) to sit besides the ominous crossing and do a real count of
the bikers and their behaviour. So you have some numbers for yourself
together with a witness. BEst thing would be to do it for at least a
whole week so you can check for different behavior on weekends etc.
My dad-in-law did this and it provided us with a lot of ammo.

Greetings

[Lewis Campbell]

I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would
suggest trying to present compelling evidence that would encourage law
enforcement to monitor the area that you are referring to and
encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.

Lewis.

***************************

"Dave Harney" > wrote in message >...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
> about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance.
> The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
> couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper
> since 1883"
>
>
>
> Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.
>
>
>
> Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.
>
>
>
> By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff
>
>
>
> Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still
> fail to heed local stop signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was
> hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling across Western Avenue without
> stopping.
>
>
>
> Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style
> bikers than defiant teenagers.
>
>
>
> Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the
> ditch to avoid careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the
> intersection of Terminal and East River roads.
>
>
>
> Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection
> outlet counting the number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping.
> Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without stopping, or even looking to
> see if any cars are coming Bartel said.
>
>
>
> "They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys
> in the spandex pants and the funny shoes that want to look like Lance
> Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the majority of the
> people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand
> miles they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north
> on some endless rail line, but they're not."
>
>
>
> The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road
> from unmarked to 35 mph, partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.
>
>
>
> Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the
> trail, but even the stop signs on the roads.
>
>
>
> "There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck
> isn't going to stop, it can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It'
> s asinine."
>
>
>
> The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.
>
>
>
> Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring
> he issues standard warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway
> C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port Washington, regularly garnering
> complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude biker
> behaviors.
>
>
>
> The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their
> ride in Mequon, McCormick said.
>
>
>
> "We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don
> 't obey signals and so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing
> issue for several years with us, so as soon as we get the first complaint of
> the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
> and let them know any complaints will result in citations."
>
>
>
> There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly
> because the warnings have worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to
> ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed by a deputy.
>
>
>
> McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols
> along Terminal and East River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from
> residents or the county.
>
>
>
> County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints
> about bicyclists neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River
> roads intersection, but said he has observed infractions himself and is
> aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.
>
>
>
> The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road
> at that stretch in the town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington,
> and Struck said preliminary indications are favorable for the first grant.
>
>
>
> The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail
> to be taken off-road at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road
> and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to where it picks up as an
> off-road trail now.
>
>
>
> Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail
> lets out onto Terminal Road would remain largely unchanged.
>
>
>
> Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday
> regarding possible enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------

[Lewis Campbell]

I am a staunch advocate of cyclists observing traffic laws and I would
suggest trying to present compelling evidence that would encourage law
enforcement to monitor the area that you are referring to and
encourage them to ticket the offending cyclists.

Lewis.

***************************

"Dave Harney" > wrote in message >...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
> about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short distance.
> The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
> couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> September 4, 2003 article in the News Graphic "Ozaukee County's Newspaper
> since 1883"
>
>
>
> Trail cyclists continue to ignore signs.
>
>
>
> Grant might ease problem by taking part of trail off-road.
>
>
>
> By Chris Mier, News Graphic Staff
>
>
>
> Grafton - They say they do it for the exercise, but some bicyclists still
> fail to heed local stop signs - even after a 14-year-old Cedarburg boy was
> hit by a car three weeks ago after peddling across Western Avenue without
> stopping.
>
>
>
> Surprisingly, though, the problem pertains more to Lycra-clad race-style
> bikers than defiant teenagers.
>
>
>
> Town Chairman Lester Bartel said he's heard of three cars swerving into the
> ditch to avoid careless cyclists exiting the Interurban Trail onto the
> intersection of Terminal and East River roads.
>
>
>
> Bartel lives on East River Road and said he has sat out at the intersection
> outlet counting the number of bikers plowing into the road with stopping.
> Four of 15 cyclists rode into the road without stopping, or even looking to
> see if any cars are coming Bartel said.
>
>
>
> "They're always the same people doing it," Bartel said. "They're the guys
> in the spandex pants and the funny shoes that want to look like Lance
> Armstrong. It's not the casual bikers. By and large the majority of the
> people are really good. It's the people trying to see how many thousand
> miles they can get in the next 20 minutes. They must think they're up north
> on some endless rail line, but they're not."
>
>
>
> The town recently decided to lower the speed limit along East River Road
> from unmarked to 35 mph, partially in response to the dangerous cyclists.
>
>
>
> Bartel said the problem cyclists are not just ignoring the signs on the
> trail, but even the stop signs on the roads.
>
>
>
> "There are trucks that go down that road," Bartel said, "and a dump truck
> isn't going to stop, it can't, and that nobody's been hit is beyond me. It'
> s asinine."
>
>
>
> The problems with renegade racers doesn't stop there either.
>
>
>
> Lt. Cory McCormick of the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Office said every spring
> he issues standard warnings to a couple of bicycling clubs who take Highway
> C to Lake Shore Road and up to Port Washington, regularly garnering
> complaints from motorists for ignoring stop signs and other rude biker
> behaviors.
>
>
>
> The groups typically drive their bikes here from Milwaukee and start their
> ride in Mequon, McCormick said.
>
>
>
> "We've had numerous complaints that they take the whole road up and they don
> 't obey signals and so forth," McCormich said. "This has been an ongoing
> issue for several years with us, so as soon as we get the first complaint of
> the year, we'll make contact with the clubs immediately when they come up
> and let them know any complaints will result in citations."
>
>
>
> There haven't been any citations issued so far, McCormick said, mainly
> because the warnings have worked, but also because it's nearly impossible to
> ticket a cyclist unless a violation is observed by a deputy.
>
>
>
> McCormick also said the Sheriff's Department would increase its patrols
> along Terminal and East River Roads if it begins receiving complaints from
> residents or the county.
>
>
>
> County Planner Andrew Struck said he hasn't received any formal complaints
> about bicyclists neglecting the stop signs at the Terminal and East River
> roads intersection, but said he has observed infractions himself and is
> aware of the general dangers posed by that stretch of the trail.
>
>
>
> The county has applied for two state grants to bring the trail off the road
> at that stretch in the town of Grafton and in another in Port Washington,
> and Struck said preliminary indications are favorable for the first grant.
>
>
>
> The grant, combined with a 20 percent county match, would pay for the trail
> to be taken off-road at the midpoint along terminal between East River Road
> and Highway W. It would continue over I-43 to where it picks up as an
> off-road trail now.
>
>
>
> Even if the plan is carried out, however, the intersection where the trail
> lets out onto Terminal Road would remain largely unchanged.
>
>
>
> Struck will field questions from the Grafton Town Board next Wednesday
> regarding possible enforcement actions against problematic cyclists.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------

[Doug Huffman]

Even handed enforcement of existing law? There are more motorists running
stops and creating a greater hazard than cyclists. Do they complain so of
their own failings? I think not.


"Dave Harney" > wrote in message
...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
> about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
distance.
> The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
> couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>
>

[Doug Huffman]

Even handed enforcement of existing law? There are more motorists running
stops and creating a greater hazard than cyclists. Do they complain so of
their own failings? I think not.


"Dave Harney" > wrote in message
...
> Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is all
> about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
distance.
> The public roads in question have very infrequent car traffic - maybe a
> couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting - any suggestions?
>
>

[John Riley]

Is there any way the meeting of the trail and the road could be
redesigned so that the trail merged with the road, (like an entrance
ramp) rather than coming to a T? Lots of times you have a trail
coming up parrallel next to a road and then the trail does a 90
degree turn to T intersect with the road. I suppose that makes sense
if half the cyclists are turning one way and half the other at the
road, but this sounds like most would continue in one direction on
the road to pick up the trail again later. In that case, a merge
intersection might be better.

John Riley



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[John Riley]

Is there any way the meeting of the trail and the road could be
redesigned so that the trail merged with the road, (like an entrance
ramp) rather than coming to a T? Lots of times you have a trail
coming up parrallel next to a road and then the trail does a 90
degree turn to T intersect with the road. I suppose that makes sense
if half the cyclists are turning one way and half the other at the
road, but this sounds like most would continue in one direction on
the road to pick up the trail again later. In that case, a merge
intersection might be better.

John Riley



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Markku Poysti]

Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection
with a stopsign for cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only
one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the whole 1
million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as
example.

[Markku Poysti]

Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection
with a stopsign for cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only
one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the whole 1
million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as
example.

[Mike]

Here in Massachusetts USA no one seems to stop at stop signs. That bicyclist
who is running the stop sign on the bike is also doing it in a car.

Solution obey the traffic laws period.



"Markku Poysti" > wrote in message
...
> Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection
> with a stopsign for cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only
> one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the whole 1
> million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as
> example.
>

[Mike]

Here in Massachusetts USA no one seems to stop at stop signs. That bicyclist
who is running the stop sign on the bike is also doing it in a car.

Solution obey the traffic laws period.



"Markku Poysti" > wrote in message
...
> Here in Finland they showed similar things on tv about an intersection
> with a stopsign for cyclists. The funny thing was that there is only
> one or two intersections with stopsign for cyclists in the whole 1
> million people city area... makes you wonder why it was picked as
> example.
>

[Jim Verheul]

So, how was the meeting?

JV

"Dave Harney" > wrote in message
...
> The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
laws.
> This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra have
> been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
groups
> that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
like
> to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
>
> Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
advocate
> of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
at
> the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility. The
> more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as valid
> users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see a
> healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in a
> dubious situation.
>
>
> "MLB" > wrote in message
> . 4.25...
> > "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This is
> > > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a short
> > > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > > any suggestions?
> > >
> >
> > Obey the traffic laws?
>
>

[Dave Harney]

I think it went fairly well. Besides the town board, the county and
sheriff's office reps were there. I spoke at some length about the issue.
The chairman insisted he was misquoted and did not intend to target people
like me in his law enforcement campaign. I suspect that my comments and
another biker's "letter to the editor" were educational for the town board.
Actually, the county folks seemed to understand the issues much better than
the town or sheriff folks. All-in-all, I'm glad I spoke up as a number of
people approached me after the meeting and voiced agreement with my remarks.


"Jim Verheul" > wrote in message
. ..
> So, how was the meeting?
>
> JV
>
> "Dave Harney" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The point is that most of us that wear funny shoes do obey the traffic
> laws.
> > This Town Chairman is providing moral justification to the bike-hostile
> > motorists who endanger our lives everyday. All of us who wear Lycra
have
> > been lumped into a law-breaker or "renegade" category. Currently, in
> > Wisconsin, bicycles are consider valid vehicles under the law for using
> > public roads. These types of news stories are usually encouraged by
> groups
> > that view cyclists as a mere nuisance factor for motorists. They would
> like
> > to change the law to get bikes off the roads.
> >
> > Certainly, we should all obey traffic laws and our club is a strong
> advocate
> > of doing just that. This type of article does little to promote overall
> > safety for cyclists and motorist sharing the same roads. What is needed
> at
> > the intersection in question in the article is some better signs for
> > motorists to slow down and some brush cleared for better visibility.
The
> > more important issue is the one of raising awareness about cycles as
valid
> > users of public roads - even if they wear funny shoes. I'd like to see
a
> > healthy problem solving attitude instead of just more law enforcement in
a
> > dubious situation.
> >
> >
> > "MLB" > wrote in message
> > . 4.25...
> > > "Dave Harney" > wrote in
> > > :
> > >
> > > > Read the article - I'm sure you will be amused (and ****ed). This
is
> > > > all about a nice paved trail that reverts to public roads for a
short
> > > > distance. The public roads in question have very infrequent car
> > > > traffic - maybe a couple an hour. I'm going to the board meeting -
> > > > any suggestions?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Obey the traffic laws?
> >
> >
>
>