BiGHA Comments

[NiCK]

There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.

Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
of ideas, 'because' it's possible...

Nicholas H


P.S.
Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )

[Tom Sherman]

NiCK wrote:
>
> There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
> yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
> on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
> 'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
> simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
> bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
> that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
>
> Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
> attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
> of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
>
> Nicholas H
>
>
> P.S.
> Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )

So do you work for BiGHA's advertising agency [1], or are you just
trying to get a job there?

[1] The pretentious and atrocious writing style is (un)worthy of
advertising copywriter.

Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon

[mike s]

Nick: I think the comments about Bigha involve two areas. First is
price. It is pricey and sells at a cost close to what some of the top
end performance bents go for. Second is the impression that the
recumbent movement is moving more toward performance (speed, handling,
lighter weight, more aerodynamic, etc.) and this is a bike moving in
the opposite direction. As a comfort cycle its competition is found
in bikes costing thousands of dollars less. They may not have all the
googaws and whistles that Bigha does, but for someone entering into
bentdom they can buy two to four of the competition for what Bigha
costs. I think that all of us bent riders want a bent company to
succeed and most of us perceive such a narrow niche for this bike that
success is chancy (we have been wrong before). And when a bent
company fails then, image wise, the sport is affected. So, while a
lot of us wish them well, that doesn't mean we can't espouse our own
opinion of their marketing and product. It just seems like a heavy,
expensive cushy bent. Hopefully they are considered more like
Cadillacs than Packards.

Mike S.
St. Louis, Mo.

Barcroft Virginia
Barcroft Columbia
RANS Rocket

[skip]

There was a BiGHA on eBay auctioned by a charity with no reserve. It sold
for $1,805.00. There were 50 bids with more than half of them from someone
bidding as nsacres. There is a Mr. Acres, John I think, who is the chief
executive of Bigha.

It was listed as a recreational bike rather than as a recumbent. BiGHA
seems to go to great lengths not to mention the word recumbent. Maybe
that's a good thing.

skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:
> There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
> yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
> on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
> 'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
> simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
> bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
> that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
>
> Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
> attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
> of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
>
> Nicholas H
>
>
> P.S.
> Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )

Yes, they dare to sell a slow heavy comfort bike for the cost of a high
performance bike. Selling stuff for twice as much as the nearest
competitors is quite an innovation!

Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[NiCK]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> NiCK wrote:
> >
> > There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
> > yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
> > on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
> > 'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
> > simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
> > bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
> > that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
> > attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
> > of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
> >
> > Nicholas H
> >
> >
> > P.S.
> > Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )
>
> So do you work for BiGHA's advertising agency [1], or are you just
> trying to get a job there?
>
> [1] The pretentious and atrocious writing style is (un)worthy of
> advertising copywriter.
>
> Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon



I'm just making a point based from my perceptions on BiGHA, even if a
disagreeance is enevitable. And also i'm not an 'advertising
copywriter.

-- NiCK

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:

> Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
>
>>NiCK wrote:
>>
>>>There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
>>>yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
>>>on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
>>>'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
>>>simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
>>>bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
>>>that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
>>>
>>>Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
>>>attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
>>>of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
>>>
>>> Nicholas H
>>>
>>>
>>>P.S.
>>>Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )
>>
>>So do you work for BiGHA's advertising agency [1], or are you just
>>trying to get a job there?
>>
>>[1] The pretentious and atrocious writing style is (un)worthy of
>>advertising copywriter.
>>
>>Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon
>
>
>
>
> I'm just making a point based from my perceptions on BiGHA, even if a
> disagreeance is enevitable. And also i'm not an 'advertising
> copywriter.
>
> -- NiCK

Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Tom Thompson]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
k.net...
> NiCK wrote:
>
> > Tom Sherman > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >>NiCK wrote:
> >>
> >>>There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
> >>>yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
> >>>on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
> >>>'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
> >>>simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
> >>>bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
> >>>that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
> >>>
> >>>Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
> >>>attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
> >>>of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
> >>>
> >>> Nicholas H
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>P.S.
> >>>Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )
> >>
> >>So do you work for BiGHA's advertising agency [1], or are you just
> >>trying to get a job there?
> >>
> >>[1] The pretentious and atrocious writing style is (un)worthy of
> >>advertising copywriter.
> >>
> >>Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm just making a point based from my perceptions on BiGHA, even if a
> > disagreeance is enevitable. And also i'm not an 'advertising
> > copywriter.
> >
> > -- NiCK
>
> Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
> Charles Manson


We've already been down this road.....

[Lawrence Turner]

It was actually listed as a "Go-Kart," something I doubt Bigha had
anything to do with. The charity or eBay was probably responsible for
listing (or mis-listing) the bike.

I guess I don't get the point of your post. Are you saying that a
Bigha is not worth its asking price? Most auction items do not go for
true market value, which is why you can often get a great deal on a
car, a house or anything else on auction. Only silly personal items,
like Princess Diana's toaster will get big bucks. If you're using this
charity auction as means of assessing Bigha's value, you are mistaken.

Geez, what has this come to? Bigha DONATES a bike to CHARITY and we
pick on them? Earth to A.R.B.R.!!!!

"skip" > wrote in message >...
> There was a BiGHA on eBay auctioned by a charity with no reserve. It sold
> for $1,805.00. There were 50 bids with more than half of them from someone
> bidding as nsacres. There is a Mr. Acres, John I think, who is the chief
> executive of Bigha.
>
> It was listed as a recreational bike rather than as a recumbent. BiGHA
> seems to go to great lengths not to mention the word recumbent. Maybe
> that's a good thing.
>
> skip

[Lawrence Turner]

Your post addesses a huge problem in bentdom.

Are we individual riders or part of a "movement," as you put it?

The day riding a recumbent entails joining a movement is the day I get
off the bike for good. Once something becomes a "movement," the
community becomes greater than the self - and people have to get
permission from the community before they can create or purchase the
bike of their choosing.

Your post seems to imply that Bigha should have consulted people such
as yourself before creating their product. I say kudos to Bigha for
breaking the status quo.

(mike s) wrote in message >...
> Nick: I think the comments about Bigha involve two areas. First is
> price. It is pricey and sells at a cost close to what some of the top
> end performance bents go for. Second is the impression that the
> recumbent movement is moving more toward performance (speed, handling,
> lighter weight, more aerodynamic, etc.) and this is a bike moving in
> the opposite direction. As a comfort cycle its competition is found
> in bikes costing thousands of dollars less. They may not have all the
> googaws and whistles that Bigha does, but for someone entering into
> bentdom they can buy two to four of the competition for what Bigha
> costs. I think that all of us bent riders want a bent company to
> succeed and most of us perceive such a narrow niche for this bike that
> success is chancy (we have been wrong before). And when a bent
> company fails then, image wise, the sport is affected. So, while a
> lot of us wish them well, that doesn't mean we can't espouse our own
> opinion of their marketing and product. It just seems like a heavy,
> expensive cushy bent. Hopefully they are considered more like
> Cadillacs than Packards.
>
> Mike S.
> St. Louis, Mo.
>
> Barcroft Virginia
> Barcroft Columbia
> RANS Rocket

[a&b]

Gaahhh!

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:

> Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
> Charles Manson

[Mark Leuck]

"Tom Thompson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s
crazy.”
> > Charles Manson
>
>
> We've already been down this road.....

I suspect he has a hidden desire to own one and is waiting for the price to
fall to $2,999, this way he can say that nobody bought one for $3,000 but
its okay that he paid below that figure

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Tom Thompson wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> k.net...
>
>>NiCK wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Tom Sherman > wrote in message
>
> >...
>
>>>>NiCK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>There has been alot of different speculations about the new BiGHA (And
>>>>>yes, that is how you correctly type BiGHA), what is the big turnaround
>>>>>on BiGHA? The pricetag? The history of BikeE? I think not. All minor
>>>>>'irritations' that reroute the opinions of people new to the idea of
>>>>>simply better technology being used efficiently on a practical way of
>>>>>bettering bicycle tourists. What's wrong with reimproving something
>>>>>that could use a more ideal purpose. Ideas are what create success.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, I'm just saying that BiGHA is doing something many dare not to
>>>>>attempt, they are reintroducing success out of a newly formed toolbox
>>>>>of ideas, 'because' it's possible...
>>>>>
>>>>>Nicholas H

>>>>>
>>>>>P.S.
>>>>>Hello Lee@BiGHA, guess who ( : Hint: lots of email : )
>>>>
>>>>So do you work for BiGHA's advertising agency [1], or are you just
>>>>trying to get a job there?
>>>>
>>>>[1] The pretentious and atrocious writing style is (un)worthy of
>>>>advertising copywriter.
>>>>
>>>>Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm just making a point based from my perceptions on BiGHA, even if a
>>>disagreeance is enevitable. And also i'm not an 'advertising
>>>copywriter.
>>>
>>>-- NiCK
>>
>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> We've already been down this road.....
>
>

And still no answer...

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> It was actually listed as a "Go-Kart," something I doubt Bigha had
> anything to do with. The charity or eBay was probably responsible for
> listing (or mis-listing) the bike.
>
> I guess I don't get the point of your post. Are you saying that a
> Bigha is not worth its asking price? Most auction items do not go for
> true market value, which is why you can often get a great deal on a
> car, a house or anything else on auction. Only silly personal items,
> like Princess Diana's toaster will get big bucks. If you're using this
> charity auction as means of assessing Bigha's value, you are mistaken.
>
> Geez, what has this come to? Bigha DONATES a bike to CHARITY and we
> pick on them? Earth to A.R.B.R.!!!!
>
> "skip" > wrote in message >...
>
>>There was a BiGHA on eBay auctioned by a charity with no reserve. It sold
>>for $1,805.00. There were 50 bids with more than half of them from someone
>>bidding as nsacres. There is a Mr. Acres, John I think, who is the chief
>>executive of Bigha.
>>
>>It was listed as a recreational bike rather than as a recumbent. BiGHA
>>seems to go to great lengths not to mention the word recumbent. Maybe
>>that's a good thing.
>>
>>skip

Who says Bigha donated it? Maybe someone bought it and found out what a
clunker it was and unloaded to a charity for a tax write off.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Tom Thompson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
k.net...
>>
>>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s
>
> crazy.”
>
>>> Charles Manson
>>
>>
>>We've already been down this road.....
>
>
> I suspect he has a hidden desire to own one and is waiting for the price to
> fall to $2,999, this way he can say that nobody bought one for $3,000 but
> its okay that he paid below that figure
>
>

I already have a slow heavy comfort bike. One that cost about one fifth
what a Bigha costs.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Edward Wong]

> I'm just making a point based from my perceptions on BiGHA, even if a
> disagreeance is enevitable. And also i'm not an 'advertising
> copywriter.
>
> -- NiCK

Nick, as soon as I seen the title of the thread I knew you were going
to get mostly "troll" responses especially from one individual whose
inicials are LLL. On the up side, Entreprenuer Magazine a couple of
months ago had a positive write up on BiGHa, though it centered mostly
around John Acres's business savy and his knack for taking risks. The
article did mention that at the time, BiGHa had already made several
hundred thousand dollars in sales...good considering that they haven't
been officially in business for a full year at the time.

All in all, this is a great newsgroup but you got to separate the
"chaff" from the good.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[skip]

"Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
m...
> It was actually listed as a "Go-Kart," something I doubt Bigha had
> anything to do with. The charity or eBay was probably responsible for
> listing (or mis-listing) the bike.
>
> I guess I don't get the point of your post. Are you saying that a
> Bigha is not worth its asking price? Most auction items do not go for
> true market value, which is why you can often get a great deal on a
> car, a house or anything else on auction. Only silly personal items,
> like Princess Diana's toaster will get big bucks. If you're using this
> charity auction as means of assessing Bigha's value, you are mistaken.
>
> Geez, what has this come to? Bigha DONATES a bike to CHARITY and we
> pick on them? Earth to A.R.B.R.!!!!
>

Just reporting the facts Mr. Turner. The point is whatever you choose to
make of the facts.

I do know it's a fact that Bay does not prepare the seller's listing for
their auction as you suggest. That's always the seller's responsibility.
In this case it was listing was for a "BiGHA Recreational Bike" as I stated
previously and not as a "go-kart" as you state in your post. The auction
number is 3634370495 if anyone wants to verify my statements.

Again the bike was sold for $1805.00 on a no reserve auction where there
were 50 bids with over half of them made by someone with the same last name
as the BiGHA CEO. Make of that whatever you wish or nothing at all.

The charity was WIRED Auctions for Starbright Foundation. Wired Auctions
would seem to be an arm of WIRED Magazine. I don't think it would be unusual
for the bike to come into WIRED's possession through an advertising
agreement of some sort with BiGHA. The Starbright Foundation is listed as a
charity benefiting sick children.

skip

[NiCK]

a&b > wrote in message >...
> Gaahhh!
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > ?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
> > Charles Manson


I think i'll sit back and watch the comments as they bore me to know
how picky benters and bicyclers get...

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:
> a&b > wrote in message >...
>
>>Gaahhh!
>>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
>>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> I think i'll sit back and watch the comments as they bore me to know
> how picky benters and bicyclers get...

So you have NOT bought a Bigha? Why not? Could it be because it costs
too much?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[NiCK]

a&b > wrote in message >...
> Gaahhh!
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > ?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
> > Charles Manson

Can you compair any logic to why it would cost so much and have of a
load of technology ...

[NiCK]

a&b > wrote in message >...
> Gaahhh!
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > ?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
> > Charles Manson

....I don't know about you, but I can

[NiCK]

a&b > wrote in message >...
> Gaahhh!
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > ?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
> > Charles Manson


---
Lets not play opinion wars
---

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

>>
>
> And still no answer...
>
Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
recognition to ignore those posts.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Edward Dolan]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message >...
.......

> Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

I love you Lorenzo L. Love! You are a monomaniac almost up to my own
high standards. Nobody but nobody in their right mind is going to pay
$3000. for a Bigha. But it is important to hammer away at this as
there are a lot of idiots in this world.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Ian]

Edward Dolan must be edykated coz e writed:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> >...
> ......
>
>> Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> I love you Lorenzo L. Love! You are a monomaniac almost up to my own
> high standards. Nobody but nobody in their right mind is going to pay
> $3000. for a Bigha. But it is important to hammer away at this as
> there are a lot of idiots in this world.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
You two should get married.
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:
> a&b > wrote in message >...
>
>>Gaahhh!
>>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
>>> Charles Manson
>
>
> Can you compair any logic to why it would cost so much and have of a
> load of technology ...

It's a simple question. You seem to thing that it's a great bike. Have
you bought a Bigha at the full retail price? If not, why? Is it not
worth $3000.00?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The fool who know his foolishness, is wise at least so far. But a fool
who thinks himself wise, he is called a fool indeed."
The Buddhist Dhammapada or The Path to Virtue

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:

> a&b > wrote in message >...
>
>>Gaahhh!
>>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
>>> Charles Manson
>
>
> ...I don't know about you, but I can

It's a simple question. You seem to thing that it's a great bike. Have
you bought a Bigha at the full retail price? If not, why? Is it not
worth $3000.00?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The fool who know his foolishness, is wise at least so far. But a fool
who thinks himself wise, he is called a fool indeed."
The Buddhist Dhammapada or The Path to Virtue

[Lorenzo L. Love]

NiCK wrote:

> a&b > wrote in message >...
>
>>Gaahhh!
>>
>>"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
>>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>
>>>?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s crazy.?
>>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> ---
> Lets not play opinion wars
> ---

It's a simple question. You seem to thing that it's a great bike. Have
you bought a Bigha at the full retail price? If not, why? Is it not
worth $3000.00?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The fool who know his foolishness, is wise at least so far. But a fool
who thinks himself wise, he is called a fool indeed."
The Buddhist Dhammapada or The Path to Virtue

[Mikael Seierup]

"Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...

Blah blah blah...

*ploink.wav*

And no I wouldn't.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>And still no answer...
>>
>
> Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
> recognition to ignore those posts.
>

Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
but much higher performance bikes?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The fool who know his foolishness, is wise at least so far. But a fool
who thinks himself wise, he is called a fool indeed."
The Buddhist Dhammapada or The Path to Virtue

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

> Ian wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>
>>
>>> And still no answer...
>>>
>>
>> Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
>> recognition to ignore those posts.
>>
>
> Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
> that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
> class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
> expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
> but much higher performance bikes?
Are you Ed Dolans sock puppet?

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lawrence Turner]

Skip, the headline indeed read "recreational bike", but it was listed
as a Go Kart. One would not find the item if they searched for the
word "bike." I don't know how someone would have found the item
unless they searched for Bigha or looked at the Wired Auction's items.

I think we should commend Bigha for donating to charity rather than
try to infer something from the price or what it was listed as.

"skip" > wrote in message >...
> "Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
> m...
> > It was actually listed as a "Go-Kart," something I doubt Bigha had
> > anything to do with. The charity or eBay was probably responsible for
> > listing (or mis-listing) the bike.
> >
> > I guess I don't get the point of your post. Are you saying that a
> > Bigha is not worth its asking price? Most auction items do not go for
> > true market value, which is why you can often get a great deal on a
> > car, a house or anything else on auction. Only silly personal items,
> > like Princess Diana's toaster will get big bucks. If you're using this
> > charity auction as means of assessing Bigha's value, you are mistaken.
> >
> > Geez, what has this come to? Bigha DONATES a bike to CHARITY and we
> > pick on them? Earth to A.R.B.R.!!!!
> >
>
> Just reporting the facts Mr. Turner. The point is whatever you choose to
> make of the facts.
>
> I do know it's a fact that Bay does not prepare the seller's listing for
> their auction as you suggest. That's always the seller's responsibility.
> In this case it was listing was for a "BiGHA Recreational Bike" as I stated
> previously and not as a "go-kart" as you state in your post. The auction
> number is 3634370495 if anyone wants to verify my statements.
>
> Again the bike was sold for $1805.00 on a no reserve auction where there
> were 50 bids with over half of them made by someone with the same last name
> as the BiGHA CEO. Make of that whatever you wish or nothing at all.
>
> The charity was WIRED Auctions for Starbright Foundation. Wired Auctions
> would seem to be an arm of WIRED Magazine. I don't think it would be unusual
> for the bike to come into WIRED's possession through an advertising
> agreement of some sort with BiGHA. The Starbright Foundation is listed as a
> charity benefiting sick children.
>
> skip

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

> Ian wrote:
>
>> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>
>>
>>> And still no answer...
>>>
>>
>> Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
>> recognition to ignore those posts.
>>
>
> Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
> that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
> class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
> expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
> but much higher performance bikes?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
I think the BiGHA is a really nicely integrated package.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[William Higley, Sr.]

Now let me see if I have this straight, you are praising L.L.L. for his
hammering away on this topic?? Your choice of words would indicate that this
is repetitious behavior on the part of L.L.L. I have seen his repeated
parrot like words "Would you buy it for $3000, awwwk".

Now comes the tricky part if I believe the things that you tell me then your
quote
> On 7 Nov 2003 17:32:24 -0800, (Edward Dolan) wrote:
>
> >. Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

is actually a slap in the face of L.L.L. No wonder there is some confusion
among the ranks.

Why this sort of logic ranks right up there with what Captain Kirk used to
overcome the android "Norman" in his second meeting with Harcourt Fenton
Mudd. The android was told that old Harry Mudd always lied. When Harry told
him he was telling a lie then the poor android thought he was telling the
truth. But that couldn't be true because he always lied.

You can see how confused we all become when you make comments like this.

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
m...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
>...
> ......
>
> > Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> I love you Lorenzo L. Love! You are a monomaniac almost up to my own
> high standards. Nobody but nobody in their right mind is going to pay
> $3000. for a Bigha. But it is important to hammer away at this as
> there are a lot of idiots in this world.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>Ian wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And still no answer...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
>>>recognition to ignore those posts.
>>>
>>
>>Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
>>that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
>>class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
>>expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
>>but much higher performance bikes?
>
> Are you Ed Dolans sock puppet?
>

And still no answer...

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> Skip, the headline indeed read "recreational bike", but it was listed
> as a Go Kart. One would not find the item if they searched for the
> word "bike." I don't know how someone would have found the item
> unless they searched for Bigha or looked at the Wired Auction's items.
>
> I think we should commend Bigha for donating to charity rather than
> try to infer something from the price or what it was listed as.

How do you know that Bigha donated the bike? Why can't it be someone
unloading a white elephant for the tax write off?

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>Ian wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And still no answer...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used selective
>>>recognition to ignore those posts.
>>>
>>
>>Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
>>that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
>>class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
>>expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
>>but much higher performance bikes?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
> I think the BiGHA is a really nicely integrated package.
>

Did you not understand the questions? Did you pay the full retail
$3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this
bike superior to similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is
this bike the equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes?

[skip]

"Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
m...
> Skip, the headline indeed read "recreational bike", but it was listed
> as a Go Kart. One would not find the item if they searched for the
> word "bike." I don't know how someone would have found the item
> unless they searched for Bigha or looked at the Wired Auction's items.

You are correct. The BiGHA was listed under the broad catagory of Sports,
Sports Equipment, Go Carts, Recreational. But the specific listing was
"Bigha Recreational Bike" It is not true that a search under "bike" would
not turn up this listing. It would, but you would have to sort through a
lot of bike listings to find the BiGHA. Of course the proper search word
is BiGHA. I used it and it turned up this listing within seconds.
>
> I think we should commend Bigha for donating to charity rather than
> try to infer something from the price or what it was listed as.
>
It seems to me you are the one trying to make inferences. In my post I
stated the auction price without comment. You also state BiGHA donated the
bike to charity. Do you know this for sure or is this an inference on your
part?

skip

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

>>>>
>>>
>>> Did you pay the full retail $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend
>>> that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
>>> class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
>>> expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
>>> but much higher performance bikes?
>>
>> Are you Ed Dolans sock puppet?
>>
>
> And still no answer...
>
>
Lets see if we can put this in a way that an idiot can understand, you asked
"would you pay $3000 for a BiGHA" and the answer is "yes I would", you have
turned this into "yes I did", I think this is a lost cause as you are driven
by hatred, did you lose money when BikeE went under? Or are you just stupid?

--
Ian

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

>>
>
> Did you not understand the questions? Did you pay the full retail
> $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
> other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this
> bike superior to similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is
> this bike the equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes?
>
>
You do not even understand the questions you ask!

--
Ian

[Lawrence Turner]

OK, Skip and Lorenzo, let's take it a step further. How do you know
it was really a Bigha and not some knock-off that was listed on eBay?

How do you know the sky is blue?

Can you be any more hard-headed?

P.S. it was not listed under bikes!

"skip" > wrote in message >...
> "Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Skip, the headline indeed read "recreational bike", but it was listed
> > as a Go Kart. One would not find the item if they searched for the
> > word "bike." I don't know how someone would have found the item
> > unless they searched for Bigha or looked at the Wired Auction's items.
>
> You are correct. The BiGHA was listed under the broad catagory of Sports,
> Sports Equipment, Go Carts, Recreational. But the specific listing was
> "Bigha Recreational Bike" It is not true that a search under "bike" would
> not turn up this listing. It would, but you would have to sort through a
> lot of bike listings to find the BiGHA. Of course the proper search word
> is BiGHA. I used it and it turned up this listing within seconds.
> >
> > I think we should commend Bigha for donating to charity rather than
> > try to infer something from the price or what it was listed as.
> >
> It seems to me you are the one trying to make inferences. In my post I
> stated the auction price without comment. You also state BiGHA donated the
> bike to charity. Do you know this for sure or is this an inference on your
> part?
>
> skip

[skip]

Lawrence you are wearing me out man. If I concede you've been right about
everything would you be willing to let this go?

skip

"Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
m...
> OK, Skip and Lorenzo, let's take it a step further. How do you know
> it was really a Bigha and not some knock-off that was listed on eBay?
>
> How do you know the sky is blue?
>
> Can you be any more hard-headed?
>
> P.S. it was not listed under bikes!
>
> "skip" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Skip, the headline indeed read "recreational bike", but it was listed
> > > as a Go Kart. One would not find the item if they searched for the
> > > word "bike." I don't know how someone would have found the item
> > > unless they searched for Bigha or looked at the Wired Auction's items.
> >
> > You are correct. The BiGHA was listed under the broad catagory of
Sports,
> > Sports Equipment, Go Carts, Recreational. But the specific listing was
> > "Bigha Recreational Bike" It is not true that a search under "bike"
would
> > not turn up this listing. It would, but you would have to sort through
a
> > lot of bike listings to find the BiGHA. Of course the proper search
word
> > is BiGHA. I used it and it turned up this listing within seconds.
> > >
> > > I think we should commend Bigha for donating to charity rather than
> > > try to infer something from the price or what it was listed as.
> > >
> > It seems to me you are the one trying to make inferences. In my post I
> > stated the auction price without comment. You also state BiGHA donated
the
> > bike to charity. Do you know this for sure or is this an inference on
your
> > part?
> >
> > skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>Did you not understand the questions? Did you pay the full retail
>>$3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
>>other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this
>>bike superior to similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is
>>this bike the equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes?
>>
>>
>
> You do not even understand the questions you ask!
>

Why are you afraid to answer these simple questions? What are you trying
to hide? Do you even have a Bigha?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
other people."
Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

> Ian wrote:
>> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>
>>
>>> Did you not understand the questions? Did you pay the full retail
>>> $3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
>>> other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this
>>> bike superior to similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is
>>> this bike the equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You do not even understand the questions you ask!
>>
>
> Why are you afraid to answer these simple questions? What are you trying
> to hide? Do you even have a Bigha?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
> other people."
> Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).
>
>
Of course I don't have a BiGHA, and I have never claimed to have one, are
you stupid? Why do you hate BiGHA? Did you lose money when BikeE went under,
answer the questions boy.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>Ian wrote:
>>
>>>Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Did you not understand the questions? Did you pay the full retail
>>>>$3000.00 price? Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
>>>>other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this
>>>>bike superior to similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is
>>>>this bike the equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>You do not even understand the questions you ask!
>>>
>>
>>Why are you afraid to answer these simple questions? What are you trying
>>to hide? Do you even have a Bigha?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
>>other people."
>>Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).
>>
>>
>
> Of course I don't have a BiGHA, and I have never claimed to have one, are
> you stupid? Why do you hate BiGHA? Did you lose money when BikeE went under,
> answer the questions boy.
>

So why did you imply that you did have one in this post?:
Ian wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>And still no answer...
>>
>
> Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but you used
selective
> recognition to ignore those posts.

I guess some people just can't be trusted. Of course you don't have a
Bigha, who with any real recumbent experiences would pay $3000.00 for a
slow heavy comfort bike?

I didn't lose any money when many of the same people who now run Bigha
drove BikeE into the ground and lied right here in this newsgroup about
what was happening. But many of their suppliers and dealers did lose
significant amounts of money. Maybe that's why they aren't selling
Bighas though dealers, no dealer will trust them.

Why do you think that I hate Bigha? It looks like it might be a nice
$1500 bike. I just wonder who would pay twice that much for one.
Obviously not you, so why do you love them so much?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
other people."
Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

>>
>
> So why did you imply that you did have one in this post?:
> Ian wrote:

I have never implied that I have one, you are so blinkered on your little
crusade to the point of being irrational.

>
> I guess some people just can't be trusted.
You see one of those people in the mirror every morning.

> Of course you don't have a
> Bigha, who with any real recumbent experiences would pay $3000.00 for a
> slow heavy comfort bike?
>
> I didn't lose any money when many of the same people who now run Bigha
> drove BikeE into the ground and lied right here in this newsgroup about
> what was happening. But many of their suppliers and dealers did lose
> significant amounts of money. Maybe that's why they aren't selling
> Bighas though dealers, no dealer will trust them.
>
> Why do you think that I hate Bigha? It looks like it might be a nice
> $1500 bike. I just wonder who would pay twice that much for one.
> Obviously not you, so why do you love them so much?
In a flat area weight is not an issue, if I wanted a city bike and actually
had a left knee that allowed me to ride a two wheeler then I would happily
spend $3000 on one, it has a lot of nice features and actually looks like it
has been designed, unlike most recumbents that have more than a hint of
being home built about them.

--
Ian

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Ian" > escreveu na mensagem
...
................. it has a lot of nice features and actually looks like it
> has been designed, unlike most recumbents that have more than a hint of
> being home built about them.
>
> --
> Ian
>
>

What is wrong with homebuilts? The best solutions found in almost all
recumbents today was born in homebuilts...

All the best

Eduardo


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Ian]

Eduardo L P Jr must be edykated coz e writed:

> "Ian" > escreveu na mensagem
> ...
> ................ it has a lot of nice features and actually looks like it
>> has been designed, unlike most recumbents that have more than a hint of
>> being home built about them.
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>>
>
> What is wrong with homebuilts? The best solutions found in almost all
> recumbents today was born in homebuilts...
>
> All the best
>
> Eduardo
>
I'm in sock puppet hell!

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Ian" > escreveu na mensagem
...
> Eduardo L P Jr must be edykated coz e writed:
>
...........
> >
> I'm in sock puppet hell!
>
> --
> Ian

Of course you aren't... I just want to know what you think is wrong with
homebuilts. I've just made a question. If you don't want to answer, is your
right, but "sock puppet" isn't an apropriate term... I don't want to crucify
you. I'm attempting to be kind, but you appear to be irate. Don't worry...
Be happy!

cheers

Eduardo


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Ian]

Eduardo L P Jr must be edykated coz e writed:

> "Ian" > escreveu na mensagem
> ...
>> Eduardo L P Jr must be edykated coz e writed:
>>
> ..........
>>>
>> I'm in sock puppet hell!
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>
> Of course you aren't... I just want to know what you think is wrong with
> homebuilts. I've just made a question. If you don't want to answer, is your
> right, but "sock puppet" isn't an apropriate term... I don't want to crucify
> you. I'm attempting to be kind, but you appear to be irate. Don't worry...
> Be happy!
>
>
There is nothing wrong with home builts, some of the best machines around
started as home builts, but conversely it is refreshing to see a recumbent
displaying such a together approach as the BiGHA, it sends messages out to
the non bent world that these machines are not backyard specials.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Ian" > escreveu na mensagem
...
> >
> >
> There is nothing wrong with home builts, some of the best machines around
> started as home builts, but conversely it is refreshing to see a recumbent
> displaying such a together approach as the BiGHA, it sends messages out to
> the non bent world that these machines are not backyard specials.
>
> --
> Ian


Thank you by your answer and opinion! That's just I want to know. I don't
agree with your opinion, but I respect your right. I believe that we may
expose our ideas without hurt one each other.

All the best

Eduardo
--


Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/


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[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:
> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>So why did you imply that you did have one in this post?:
>>Ian wrote:
>
>
> I have never implied that I have one, you are so blinkered on your little
> crusade to the point of being irrational.
>
>
>>I guess some people just can't be trusted.
>
> You see one of those people in the mirror every morning.
>
>
>>Of course you don't have a
>>Bigha, who with any real recumbent experiences would pay $3000.00 for a
>>slow heavy comfort bike?
>>
>>I didn't lose any money when many of the same people who now run Bigha
>>drove BikeE into the ground and lied right here in this newsgroup about
>>what was happening. But many of their suppliers and dealers did lose
>>significant amounts of money. Maybe that's why they aren't selling
>>Bighas though dealers, no dealer will trust them.
>>
>>Why do you think that I hate Bigha? It looks like it might be a nice
>>$1500 bike. I just wonder who would pay twice that much for one.
>>Obviously not you, so why do you love them so much?
>
> In a flat area weight is not an issue, if I wanted a city bike and actually
> had a left knee that allowed me to ride a two wheeler then I would happily
> spend $3000 on one, it has a lot of nice features and actually looks like it
> has been designed, unlike most recumbents that have more than a hint of
> being home built about them.
>

I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..." Thereupon
you responded "Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but
you used selective recognition to ignore those posts." Clearly you were
claiming that you bought one and clearly it was an attempt to deceive.
You seems to have a selective recognition of truth. You make excuses for
why you haven't bought a Bigha, and you would not be attempting to
deceive us again, would you? But for what ever reason, you have not
bought one. So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
other people."
Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

[Ian]

Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

>>
>
> I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
> danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..." Thereupon
> you responded "Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but
> you used selective recognition to ignore those posts." Clearly you were
> claiming that you bought one and clearly it was an attempt to deceive.
> You seems to have a selective recognition of truth. You make excuses for
> why you haven't bought a Bigha, and you would not be attempting to
> deceive us again, would you? But for what ever reason, you have not
> bought one. So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
> paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
> no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.
>
>
>
I was responding to your previous question when you said "Who would pay
$3000 for a BiGHA".

So clearly I was not attempting to deceive anyone.

You sir are a horses arse.
--
Ian

[Mikael Seierup]

"Ian" skrev...
> You sir are a horses arse.

Kinda begs the question whos the biggest fool.
The horses arse or the person who keeps arguing with it. ;o)

(Sorry... I couldn't help myself)

M.

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" skrev...
>> You sir are a horses arse.
>
> Kinda begs the question whos the biggest fool.
> The horses arse or the person who keeps arguing with it. ;o)
>
> (Sorry... I couldn't help myself)
>
> M.
You sir are a disc wheeled fool!
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Ian wrote:

> Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:
>
>
>>I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
>>danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..." Thereupon
>>you responded "Actually more than one person said yes, including me, but
>>you used selective recognition to ignore those posts." Clearly you were
>>claiming that you bought one and clearly it was an attempt to deceive.
>>You seems to have a selective recognition of truth. You make excuses for
>>why you haven't bought a Bigha, and you would not be attempting to
>>deceive us again, would you? But for what ever reason, you have not
>>bought one. So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
>>paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
>>no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I was responding to your previous question when you said "Who would pay
> $3000 for a BiGHA".
>
> So clearly I was not attempting to deceive anyone.
>
> You sir are a horses arse.

Why are you getting so rude, offensive and defensive over a bike you
don't even own? And would you buy a Bigha? Clearly you will not. You
don't need to lie about it or make excuses. Just try the truth.

The questions remains: Who with any real recumbent experience would pay
the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Mikael Seierup]

"Ian" skrev

> You sir are a disc wheeled fool!

Looks a lot better than horsemanure though. ;-)

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > escreveu na mensagem
nk.net...
..............

> The questions remains: Who with any real recumbent experience would pay
> the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove


In simple words: NO and NEVER!

[]'s Eduardo
--


Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[skip]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
nk.net...
<snip>
>
> I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
> danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..."

Lorenzo:

At this point in time I think you can safely assume that in so far as this
newsgroup goes the answer to your question is NO. Apparently no one posting
to a.r.b.r. has paid $3000 for a BiGHA. I believe the closest to a yes
answer you had was from Ed Wong saying he would buy one for $3000.00 if he
had the money. I'm not sure why the others won't give you a straight
answer, but I can tell you that I haven't purchased one. If I had $3000.00
to spend (not) on a new CLWB bike my personal preference (for whatever
that's worth) would be for a Tailwind and $2000.00 in change. Nevertheless
I think it's good for people to have as many choices and price ranges
available to them as possible. That's what's great about free enterprise.

skip

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

>
> "Ian" skrev
>
>> You sir are a disc wheeled fool!
>
> Looks a lot better than horsemanure though. ;-)
Have you got a link to a picture? And do you think I could cut the 20" ones
down to fit my 16" front wheels?

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Lorenzo L. Love]

skip wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> <snip>
>
>>I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
>>danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..."
>
>
> Lorenzo:
>
> At this point in time I think you can safely assume that in so far as this
> newsgroup goes the answer to your question is NO. Apparently no one posting
> to a.r.b.r. has paid $3000 for a BiGHA. I believe the closest to a yes
> answer you had was from Ed Wong saying he would buy one for $3000.00 if he
> had the money. I'm not sure why the others won't give you a straight
> answer, but I can tell you that I haven't purchased one. If I had $3000.00
> to spend (not) on a new CLWB bike my personal preference (for whatever
> that's worth) would be for a Tailwind and $2000.00 in change. Nevertheless
> I think it's good for people to have as many choices and price ranges
> available to them as possible. That's what's great about free enterprise.
>
> skip
>
>

I'm sure there is some market for Bighas, after all people buy Segways
and Hummers. But why do people fall all over themselves saying how great
this thing is when they would never, ever buy one? Do they think Bigha
is going to send them a free one?

Bigha could be a force in the recumbent market if they reduced the price
to the competitive $1200 to $1500 range. As it is now, the only buyers
are people who know nothing at all about recumbents except that they
want one, and have $3000 to **** away on something that they don't know
anything about, and can't figure out how to do simple research on the
internet. That's a pretty limited market share. If they are going to
stay in business, Bigha needs to learn a little something about free
enterprise.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
>
> I'm sure there is some market for Bighas, after all people buy Segways
> and Hummers. But why do people fall all over themselves saying how great
> this thing is when they would never, ever buy one? Do they think Bigha
> is going to send them a free one?

I could say that about many brands of bikes I'd never get

> Bigha could be a force in the recumbent market if they reduced the price
> to the competitive $1200 to $1500 range. As it is now, the only buyers
> are people who know nothing at all about recumbents except that they
> want one, and have $3000 to **** away on something that they don't know
> anything about, and can't figure out how to do simple research on the
> internet. That's a pretty limited market share. If they are going to
> stay in business, Bigha needs to learn a little something about free
> enterprise.

They aren't marketing to recumbent folks and how do you know its a limited
market share? Just because neither of us would buy one doesn't mean it won't
sell big. Hell looking at some of the high priced bikes at the local bike
shop tells me many might. As you say people buy Segways (not many) and
Hummers (a lot), seems logical they might buy this too, at this time with
the product in its infancy nobody knows what the sales figures are and I'm
not willing to say its a failure or that nobody here will buy one...yet

[Tom Thompson]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> skip wrote:
>
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > <snip>
> >
> >>I asked "Have you paid the full $3000.00 price for a Bigha?" and people
> >>danced around the answer so I said "And still no answer..."
> >
> >
> > Lorenzo:
> >
> > At this point in time I think you can safely assume that in so far as
this
> > newsgroup goes the answer to your question is NO. Apparently no one
posting
> > to a.r.b.r. has paid $3000 for a BiGHA. I believe the closest to a yes
> > answer you had was from Ed Wong saying he would buy one for $3000.00 if
he
> > had the money. I'm not sure why the others won't give you a straight
> > answer, but I can tell you that I haven't purchased one. If I had
$3000.00
> > to spend (not) on a new CLWB bike my personal preference (for whatever
> > that's worth) would be for a Tailwind and $2000.00 in change.
Nevertheless
> > I think it's good for people to have as many choices and price ranges
> > available to them as possible. That's what's great about free
enterprise.
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
>
> I'm sure there is some market for Bighas, after all people buy Segways
> and Hummers. But why do people fall all over themselves saying how great
> this thing is when they would never, ever buy one? Do they think Bigha
> is going to send them a free one?

I readily concede your point that nobody on arbr has paid $3000 for a Bigha.
We're not the target market either. Personally, I would not buy it for $1k,
but that's just my preference.

That said, I think a Mercedes S500AMG is a fabulous automobile. Never gonna
buy one though. Not when I can get everything I need out of a car with a
Focus at 1/10 the price.

> Bigha could be a force in the recumbent market if they reduced the price
> to the competitive $1200 to $1500 range. As it is now, the only buyers
> are people who know nothing at all about recumbents except that they
> want one, and have $3000 to **** away on something that they don't know
> anything about, and can't figure out how to do simple research on the
> internet. That's a pretty limited market share. If they are going to
> stay in business, Bigha needs to learn a little something about free
> enterprise.

I really think that their target market is big enough. Wanna bet that it
shows up in the Hammacher-Schlemmner catalogue next year? At $4000 with more
fancy doo-dads hanging off of it, a special paint job and a limited edition
decal? It'll sell out. Ford sold 1,000 Thunderbirds that way a couple years
ago - before they built the first one! There are an astounding number of
folks who will buy things just to show others that they damn well can. You
pretty much described many of them, but I think you underestimated the
scope.

Tom Thompson

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mike Rice wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:59:18 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> > wrote:
>
>>So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
>>paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
>>no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> Lorenzo I think your missing one thing. People with real recumbent
> experience are not the target market for this machine. People with
> disposable monies attracted to the finnished appearance are. To that
> market $3000 for a luxury item (even one which may never be used) is
> perfectly reasonable.
>
> Mike Rice, who paid around 2/3 the BiGHa's price for his Tour Easy.

That's the problem, only people who know nothing about recumbents are
likely to buy a Bigha. But with the internet they can find lots and lots
of info about recumbents very easily. Recumbents aren't a secret
anymore. And even people who can afford $3000.00 on a luxury item are
going to shop around. For the price, Bigha or Goldrush? Bigha or Sabre?
Bigha or Greenspeed? Bigha or two V-Rexs so the wife can come along?
Bigha or four EZ-1 SC Lites for the whole family? It only takes a few
minutes on the internet to see these alternatives and make comparisons.
And Bigha is marketing on the interenet, to the very people most likely
to use the internet for product comparison. How is Bigha going to keep
their potential customers ignorant of all the better values? As a
marketing strategy, it just doesn't make sense.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Mike Rice wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:59:18 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
> >>paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
> >>no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >
> >
> > Lorenzo I think your missing one thing. People with real recumbent
> > experience are not the target market for this machine. People with
> > disposable monies attracted to the finnished appearance are. To that
> > market $3000 for a luxury item (even one which may never be used) is
> > perfectly reasonable.
> >
> > Mike Rice, who paid around 2/3 the BiGHa's price for his Tour Easy.
>
> That's the problem, only people who know nothing about recumbents are
> likely to buy a Bigha. But with the internet they can find lots and lots
> of info about recumbents very easily. Recumbents aren't a secret
> anymore.

Wanna bet? I run into countless people who've never seen one before, in my
area (Dallas/Fort Worth Texas) only 2 stores sell them and I very rarely see
anyone out with them. And even with all the information available on the net
most either don't know how to find them or don't care to look. Ever had
somone post a question here about info for a particular bike when most of us
(I hope) could have easily found the information using Google. I get that
kind of stuff every day

> And even people who can afford $3000.00 on a luxury item are
> going to shop around. For the price, Bigha or Goldrush? Bigha or Sabre?
> Bigha or Greenspeed? Bigha or two V-Rexs so the wife can come along?
> Bigha or four EZ-1 SC Lites for the whole family?

No, the target customers will choose between a BigHa and a Schwinn, they
will never know what a Goldrush, Sabre or Greenspeed are.

> It only takes a few
> minutes on the internet to see these alternatives and make comparisons.
> And Bigha is marketing on the interenet, to the very people most likely
> to use the internet for product comparison.

I doubt it, most people interested won't know BigHa even has a web page.
Again you have a whole segment of people who are pretty much internet dumb.
The product will be one of those niche products sold by, as stated in a
previous message, Hammacher-Schlemmner or other outlets like that. If they
see it in a store they'll likely hop on it to see how it feels then take it
home without ANY research.

BTW: I'll wager most recumbent owners did the same thing

> How is Bigha going to keep
> their potential customers ignorant of all the better values? As a
> marketing strategy, it just doesn't make sense.

The market will decide that, I find many businesses have survived that don't
make sense (like AOL)

[TJ Theismen]

Well, I guess I'm the world's biggest idiot for paying $3000 for my
Bigha. When I first heard of them I checked out this board. I ended
up purchasing despite all the negativity. I couldn't be happier with
my Bigha. I ride it often.

Feel free to rip me all you want, I'll be happy nontheless. Had I
listened to everyone who said such and such was a bad idea, I wouldn't
have gone to college, wouldn't have married (and had children),
wouldn't have my job, my house, my car, my Bigha, etc. I learned long
ago to listen to the familiar voice inside instead of the strange ones
outside.


"Eduardo L P Jr" > wrote in message >...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > escreveu na mensagem
> nk.net...
> .............
>
> > The questions remains: Who with any real recumbent experience would pay
> > the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>
> In simple words: NO and NEVER!
>
> []'s Eduardo
> --
>
>
> Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
> Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 6/11/2003

[Edward Dolan]

Ian > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > I love you Lorenzo L. Love! You are a monomaniac almost up to my own
> > high standards. Nobody but nobody in their right mind is going to pay
> > $3000. for a Bigha. But it is important to hammer away at this as
> > there are a lot of idiots in this world.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

> You two should get married.

Jackie Mason: Are you married? Who me? Married? Why I would just as
soon marry a horse as marry a woman, or this chair!

Zorba the Greek: Are you married? Am I not a man. Yes I was married,
wife, children, house, the full catastrophe!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>>Mike Rice wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:59:18 GMT, "Lorenzo L. Love"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So I ask again, who with any real recumbent experience has
>>>>paid the full retail $3000.00 for this slow heavy comfort bike? There is
>>>>no need for you to get rude and offensive, just answer the question.
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>
>>>
>>>Lorenzo I think your missing one thing. People with real recumbent
>>>experience are not the target market for this machine. People with
>>>disposable monies attracted to the finnished appearance are. To that
>>>market $3000 for a luxury item (even one which may never be used) is
>>>perfectly reasonable.
>>>
>>>Mike Rice, who paid around 2/3 the BiGHa's price for his Tour Easy.
>>
>>That's the problem, only people who know nothing about recumbents are
>>likely to buy a Bigha. But with the internet they can find lots and lots
>>of info about recumbents very easily. Recumbents aren't a secret
>>anymore.
>
>
> Wanna bet? I run into countless people who've never seen one before, in my
> area (Dallas/Fort Worth Texas) only 2 stores sell them and I very rarely see
> anyone out with them. And even with all the information available on the net
> most either don't know how to find them or don't care to look. Ever had
> somone post a question here about info for a particular bike when most of us
> (I hope) could have easily found the information using Google. I get that
> kind of stuff every day
>
>
>>And even people who can afford $3000.00 on a luxury item are
>>going to shop around. For the price, Bigha or Goldrush? Bigha or Sabre?
>>Bigha or Greenspeed? Bigha or two V-Rexs so the wife can come along?
>>Bigha or four EZ-1 SC Lites for the whole family?
>
>
> No, the target customers will choose between a BigHa and a Schwinn, they
> will never know what a Goldrush, Sabre or Greenspeed are.
>
>
>>It only takes a few
>>minutes on the internet to see these alternatives and make comparisons.
>>And Bigha is marketing on the interenet, to the very people most likely
>>to use the internet for product comparison.
>
>
> I doubt it, most people interested won't know BigHa even has a web page.
> Again you have a whole segment of people who are pretty much internet dumb.
> The product will be one of those niche products sold by, as stated in a
> previous message, Hammacher-Schlemmner or other outlets like that. If they
> see it in a store they'll likely hop on it to see how it feels then take it
> home without ANY research.
>
> BTW: I'll wager most recumbent owners did the same thing
>
>
>>How is Bigha going to keep
>>their potential customers ignorant of all the better values? As a
>>marketing strategy, it just doesn't make sense.
>
>
> The market will decide that, I find many businesses have survived that don't
> make sense (like AOL)
>
>
But no one can hop on it at a store, it is only sold on line, sight
unseen, direct from Bigha, not from Hammacher-Schlemmner or Sharper
Image or any other catalog dealer. From your internet browser, the one
with the search button at the top.

AOL stays in business by massive advertising. A few years ago AutoBike
used that tactic to sell millions of really crappy bikes so we know it
works for bikes too. You couldn't turn on the TV late at night without
seeing an AutoBike infomercial. The few full page ads Bigha has placed
in high end non-biking magazines just don't reach that kind of numbers.
If you do see their ad, you have to go to the internet to order a Bigha,
so their customers are internet literate.

Someone compared it to a Thunderbird car. But it's just a bicycle. Tell
someone how much your recumbent cost and you'll get "That much for JUST
a bicycle?" response. Now double or triple the cost for a Bigha. Things
like cars can have lots of sex appeal. Not many people in the general
public see sex appeal in a bicycle. How many people have gotten laid
because he drives a snazzy bicycle?

The Segway might be a better comparison, but Segways got massive
prerelease publicity and they can claim to be somewhat unique and
innovative. But they still don't sell for squat. Bighas are really
pretty ordinary recumbents despite the integrated electronics. I predict
sales of less then squat.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Lorenzo L. Love]

TJ Theismen wrote:

> Well, I guess I'm the world's biggest idiot for paying $3000 for my
> Bigha. When I first heard of them I checked out this board. I ended
> up purchasing despite all the negativity. I couldn't be happier with
> my Bigha. I ride it often.
>
> Feel free to rip me all you want, I'll be happy nontheless. Had I
> listened to everyone who said such and such was a bad idea, I wouldn't
> have gone to college, wouldn't have married (and had children),
> wouldn't have my job, my house, my car, my Bigha, etc. I learned long
> ago to listen to the familiar voice inside instead of the strange ones
> outside.
>

Have you ridden any other recumbents before buying a Bigha? Or since?
Why did you decide to spend that much when there are other much cheaper
bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this bike superior to
similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the
equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes? Does that
voice in your head often tell you to spend that kind of money?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"TJ Theismen" > escreveu na mensagem
om...
...............
> Feel free to rip me all you want, I'll be happy nontheless. Had I
> listened to everyone who said such and such was a bad idea, I wouldn't
> have gone to college, wouldn't have married (and had children),
> wouldn't have my job, my house, my car, my Bigha, etc. I learned long
> ago to listen to the familiar voice inside instead of the strange ones
> outside.
..............


I'll never rip you Mr. Theismen! I respect your choice and your opinion,
because I guess you'll respect mine too. I live in a country with 0% of
recumbents tradition. To have my own recumbent, I need to build my own.
Maybe you don't like a semi-lowracer with front wheeldrive by a twist chain,
but this was my choice.

As you do, I don't care if other people aprove or not my choices. I have a
tandem upright to ride with my wife. I have an ancient Phillips (1948) which
I've restored to mint state. I like very much my old touring bicycle which
I've converted to fixed gear. When I'm bored with two wheels, I like to ride
my unicycle. I don't have preconceptions with HPV's.

Don't worry... Be happy!

All the best!

Eduardo
--


Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Tom Thompson]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
nk.net...

<snip>
> Someone compared it to a Thunderbird car. But it's just a bicycle.

Just a bicycle?? Why, it's got integrated electronics, man!

Tell
> someone how much your recumbent cost and you'll get "That much for JUST
> a bicycle?" response.
>Now double or triple the cost for a Bigha.

My nicest upright cost a lot more than any of my recumbents did. I can see
a parallel with upright manufacturers like Seven Cycles. Price one of those
someday
and ask yourself how many cyclists would pay that much for a bike that is
essentially the very same design and geometry that can be found in any
number of less expensive alternatives. Yes, the market's much larger, but
Seven has many more competitors than does Bigha.


> Things
> like cars can have lots of sex appeal. Not many people in the general
> public see sex appeal in a bicycle. How many people have gotten laid
> because he drives a snazzy bicycle?

Weeeellll, it _was_ a Pinarello Prince, ya know....

Not many people in the general public see anything special about any
recumbent. Greenspeed sold less than 100 units a year for at least their
first 5 years. (My GTR was #408 - it was their 2nd model and it was 5+ years
since its intro when it was built) It can take a supprisingly small number
of sales to keep a start-up afloat, especially if its principals have other
income. Might that be the case with Bigha?

You seem to be fixated on the fact that Bigha is overpriced . So what? We
both have Tour Easys: would you pay $5000+ for a TiRush? No electronics at
all on that bike! Same geometry as the TE, 3# less weight, but it's
Titanium, man! I wouldn't pay that price, would you? Is it worth 2.5 TEs? 5
Rockets? 1.67 Bighas?

Tom Thompson

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Tom Thompson wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> <snip>
>
>>Someone compared it to a Thunderbird car. But it's just a bicycle.
>
>
> Just a bicycle?? Why, it's got integrated electronics, man!
>
> Tell
>
>>someone how much your recumbent cost and you'll get "That much for JUST
>>a bicycle?" response.
>>Now double or triple the cost for a Bigha.
>
>
> My nicest upright cost a lot more than any of my recumbents did. I can see
> a parallel with upright manufacturers like Seven Cycles. Price one of those
> someday
> and ask yourself how many cyclists would pay that much for a bike that is
> essentially the very same design and geometry that can be found in any
> number of less expensive alternatives. Yes, the market's much larger, but
> Seven has many more competitors than does Bigha.
>
>
>
>>Things
>>like cars can have lots of sex appeal. Not many people in the general
>>public see sex appeal in a bicycle. How many people have gotten laid
>>because he drives a snazzy bicycle?
>
>
> Weeeellll, it _was_ a Pinarello Prince, ya know....
>
> Not many people in the general public see anything special about any
> recumbent. Greenspeed sold less than 100 units a year for at least their
> first 5 years. (My GTR was #408 - it was their 2nd model and it was 5+ years
> since its intro when it was built) It can take a supprisingly small number
> of sales to keep a start-up afloat, especially if its principals have other
> income. Might that be the case with Bigha?
>
> You seem to be fixated on the fact that Bigha is overpriced . So what? We
> both have Tour Easys: would you pay $5000+ for a TiRush? No electronics at
> all on that bike! Same geometry as the TE, 3# less weight, but it's
> Titanium, man! I wouldn't pay that price, would you? Is it worth 2.5 TEs? 5
> Rockets? 1.67 Bighas?
>
> Tom Thompson
>
>
No I wouldn't buy a TiRush, I don't think it's worth the money but
because it is from the most experienced and respected recumbent
manufacturer in the US I can see where others interested in high
performance would. But that kind of money for a unseen 50 pound bike
from a company run by many of the same people who wrecked BikeE? That's
incomprehensible. That kind of money for ANY bicycle from any
manufacturer is shocking to the non-biking public, the same public Bigha
is marketing to.

Many (most?) recumbent makers start as tiny one or two person operations
on a shoestring budget. Easy Racer started in a converted chicken coop.
Check Bigha's webpage. They have 14 people listed. They claim
$500,000.00 R & D costs on the seat alone. Acres is going to need very
deep pockets to keep the company afloat. Unless the whole thing is
designed to fail.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"We recognize, however dimly, that greater efficiency, ease, and
security may come at a substantial price in freedom, that law and order
can be a doublethink version of oppression, that individual liberties
surrendered for whatever good reason are freedom lost."
Walter Cronkite, in the preface to the 1984 edition of 1984

[Ian]

TJ Theismen must be edykated coz e writed:

> Well, I guess I'm the world's biggest idiot for paying $3000 for my
> Bigha. When I first heard of them I checked out this board. I ended
> up purchasing despite all the negativity. I couldn't be happier with
> my Bigha. I ride it often.
>
> Feel free to rip me all you want, I'll be happy nontheless. Had I
> listened to everyone who said such and such was a bad idea, I wouldn't
> have gone to college, wouldn't have married (and had children),
> wouldn't have my job, my house, my car, my Bigha, etc. I learned long
> ago to listen to the familiar voice inside instead of the strange ones
> outside.
>
Well I think it is a nice bike.

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Edward Wong]

> The Segway might be a better comparison, but Segways got massive
> prerelease publicity and they can claim to be somewhat unique and
> innovative. But they still don't sell for squat. Bighas are really
> pretty ordinary recumbents despite the integrated electronics. I predict
> sales of less then squat.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove


13,000 Segways and they "don't sell for squat?". Where do you get
your information? Your "imagination"? There are MORE online
communities for Segways than there are for recumbents. Another thing
Lorenzo, you are tiring this group with your rather strange anti-BiGHa
obsession...even those who wouldn't own one. Admit it, you just can't
afford one so why keep "beating a dead horse"?

I currently am aware of 5 people who've bought a BiGHa...both newbies
and experienced. They shouldn't have to answer to you or anyone as to
why they made their choice. That is very rude of you. Who do you
think you are? The "Recumbent Police"? What makes you think that
"experienced" bent riders would never own one. Have you ridden one
yourself to make that judgement? Your arrogant assumptions tells me
that you need to grow up some.

You don't have the faintest idea of what free market is and that
discussion is way out of your league. Don't you think that people who
own a Rolex haven't owned other less expensive watches? Don't you
think people who own a Hummer haven't tried and owned other less
expensive vehicles? Don't you think there are people who live in a
$500,000 home today that may have lived in a $100,000 one two or three
years before? After all, the less expensive items I've mentioned do
basically the same function as their pricier counterparts. It's not
up to you to make decisions for others as to how to spend their money.
I've seen really stupid things said on this newsgroup but this "takes
the cake".

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Scott]

(Edward Wong) wrote in message >...
> > The Segway might be a better comparison, but Segways got massive
> > prerelease publicity and they can claim to be somewhat unique and
> > innovative. But they still don't sell for squat. Bighas are really
> > pretty ordinary recumbents despite the integrated electronics. I predict
> > sales of less then squat.
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>
> 13,000 Segways and they "don't sell for squat?". Where do you get
> your information? Your "imagination"? There are MORE online
> communities for Segways than there are for recumbents. Another thing
> Lorenzo, you are tiring this group with your rather strange anti-BiGHa
> obsession...even those who wouldn't own one. Admit it, you just can't
> afford one so why keep "beating a dead horse"?
>
> I currently am aware of 5 people who've bought a BiGHa...both newbies
> and experienced. They shouldn't have to answer to you or anyone as to
> why they made their choice. That is very rude of you. Who do you
> think you are? The "Recumbent Police"? What makes you think that
> "experienced" bent riders would never own one. Have you ridden one
> yourself to make that judgement? Your arrogant assumptions tells me
> that you need to grow up some.
>
> You don't have the faintest idea of what free market is and that
> discussion is way out of your league. Don't you think that people who
> own a Rolex haven't owned other less expensive watches? Don't you
> think people who own a Hummer haven't tried and owned other less
> expensive vehicles? Don't you think there are people who live in a
> $500,000 home today that may have lived in a $100,000 one two or three
> years before? After all, the less expensive items I've mentioned do
> basically the same function as their pricier counterparts. It's not
> up to you to make decisions for others as to how to spend their money.
> I've seen really stupid things said on this newsgroup but this "takes
> the cake".
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL


Well said, Edward. I, for one, rather like the Bigha. It's not the
bike for me, and I agree with much of the criticism, but if I had lots
of $ and needed a ride-around-town or casual riding 'bent, I'd
consider this bike. I think it's really nice looking. Some people
have plenty of cash, and this kind of expense just isn't a big deal.
The Rolex analogy is a good one. My Casio keeps just as good if not
better time and costs a fraction of the amount. So what? Folks still
line up to by Rolexes.

Scott

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:
>>The Segway might be a better comparison, but Segways got massive
>>prerelease publicity and they can claim to be somewhat unique and
>>innovative. But they still don't sell for squat. Bighas are really
>>pretty ordinary recumbents despite the integrated electronics. I predict
>>sales of less then squat.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
>
>
> 13,000 Segways and they "don't sell for squat?". Where do you get
> your information? Your "imagination"? There are MORE online
> communities for Segways than there are for recumbents. Another thing
> Lorenzo, you are tiring this group with your rather strange anti-BiGHa
> obsession...even those who wouldn't own one. Admit it, you just can't
> afford one so why keep "beating a dead horse"?
>
> I currently am aware of 5 people who've bought a BiGHa...both newbies
> and experienced. They shouldn't have to answer to you or anyone as to
> why they made their choice. That is very rude of you. Who do you
> think you are? The "Recumbent Police"? What makes you think that
> "experienced" bent riders would never own one. Have you ridden one
> yourself to make that judgement? Your arrogant assumptions tells me
> that you need to grow up some.
>
> You don't have the faintest idea of what free market is and that
> discussion is way out of your league. Don't you think that people who
> own a Rolex haven't owned other less expensive watches? Don't you
> think people who own a Hummer haven't tried and owned other less
> expensive vehicles? Don't you think there are people who live in a
> $500,000 home today that may have lived in a $100,000 one two or three
> years before? After all, the less expensive items I've mentioned do
> basically the same function as their pricier counterparts. It's not
> up to you to make decisions for others as to how to spend their money.
> I've seen really stupid things said on this newsgroup but this "takes
> the cake".
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Ask a simple question and I get such rude and offensive responses. Why
are you so defensive about a bike you yourself will not buy? After
filtering out some lies, only ONE person in this newgroup claims to have
actually bought a Bigha and he has not answered simple questions about
his experience or why he spent that much. Sure, some people will
automatically buy what ever costs the most on the silly idea that if it
costs more it must be better or because they need to feel special by
having more expensive toys then their neighbors. If these are your
reasons for buying a Bigha, just say so. No need to be defensive about
it, lots of people think spending money makes them special. But if you
have a logical reason for paying $3000.00 for a slow heavy comfort bike,
I would like to hear it.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Edward Wong]

> Ask a simple question and I get such rude and offensive responses. Why
> are you so defensive about a bike you yourself will not buy? After
> filtering out some lies, only ONE person in this newgroup claims to have
> actually bought a Bigha and he has not answered simple questions about
> his experience or why he spent that much. Sure, some people will
> automatically buy what ever costs the most on the silly idea that if it
> costs more it must be better or because they need to feel special by
> having more expensive toys then their neighbors. If these are your
> reasons for buying a Bigha, just say so. No need to be defensive about
> it, lots of people think spending money makes them special. But if you
> have a logical reason for paying $3000.00 for a slow heavy comfort bike,
> I would like to hear it.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

I new see that the issue you have is not just about this particular
product (BiGHa) but against anyone who can afford and enjoy the finer
things in life that you can't. Again, why should anyone have to
justify their buying decisions to you? Can you answer that simple
question?

You're getting what you perceive to be "rude and offensive" responses
because you are being offensive with your constant and persistant
negative attitude about this bike company and repetitive questioning
on the same thing over and over and over.

I knew the moment someone would come forward and admit that they own a
BiGHa, you would immediately jump down their throat and pester them
would your twisted point of view. Maybe that's the reason we dont't
hear from more BiGHa owners. They know it's a complete waste of time
to post here because of the attitudes.

I believe I said this the last time we butted heads on this subject
several months ago. You have failed to point out a bike that is
comparable to the BiGHa, meaning in everything including the
intergrated electronic package, made in the USA and costs less than
half of what the BiGHa costs. You won't find it so don't waste your
time or ours.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Edward Wong wrote:

>>Ask a simple question and I get such rude and offensive responses. Why
>>are you so defensive about a bike you yourself will not buy? After
>>filtering out some lies, only ONE person in this newgroup claims to have
>>actually bought a Bigha and he has not answered simple questions about
>>his experience or why he spent that much. Sure, some people will
>>automatically buy what ever costs the most on the silly idea that if it
>>costs more it must be better or because they need to feel special by
>>having more expensive toys then their neighbors. If these are your
>>reasons for buying a Bigha, just say so. No need to be defensive about
>>it, lots of people think spending money makes them special. But if you
>>have a logical reason for paying $3000.00 for a slow heavy comfort bike,
>>I would like to hear it.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>
>
> I new see that the issue you have is not just about this particular
> product (BiGHa) but against anyone who can afford and enjoy the finer
> things in life that you can't. Again, why should anyone have to
> justify their buying decisions to you? Can you answer that simple
> question?
>
> You're getting what you perceive to be "rude and offensive" responses
> because you are being offensive with your constant and persistant
> negative attitude about this bike company and repetitive questioning
> on the same thing over and over and over.
>
> I knew the moment someone would come forward and admit that they own a
> BiGHa, you would immediately jump down their throat and pester them
> would your twisted point of view. Maybe that's the reason we dont't
> hear from more BiGHa owners. They know it's a complete waste of time
> to post here because of the attitudes.
>
> I believe I said this the last time we butted heads on this subject
> several months ago. You have failed to point out a bike that is
> comparable to the BiGHa, meaning in everything including the
> intergrated electronic package, made in the USA and costs less than
> half of what the BiGHa costs. You won't find it so don't waste your
> time or ours.
>
> Edward Wong
> Orlando, FL

Let's see, you defend tooth and nail a bike that you don't own and WILL
NOT BUY. I ask why people would buy this bike, and you, who WILL NOT BUY
one, keep answering. You keep telling us how great this bike is, but you
WILL NOT BUY one. I want to hear from people who have bought one, why
they did. Not from someone who WILL NOT BUY one.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
Oscar Wilde

[Steve in SC]

I fail to see a rational basis for the invective frequently expressed
towards Bigha or John Acres. Bigha is unlikely to take sales from any
existing recumbent manufacturer. Bigha has created a unique market
niche, the upscale recumbent pleasure cruiser. I suspect that John
Acres is marketing this particular bent because he is without
competitors in this small market niche.
There is a group of consumers in this country, primarily affluent,
that are motivated largely by "pride of ownership". These people will
pay large sums of money to acquire whatever they consider to be "the
best".
A Bigha customer may be a well-heeled retired couple. They have
purchased "his" and "her" Bigha bikes. The man may have even had a
trailer, complete with a ramp, built for the bikes so that he can
easily tow them behind their Lincoln Navigator. Every Sunday, if the
weather is nice, they take their bikes to the park for a leasurely
eight mile ride. What's so wrong with that? Should a retired couple be
forced to ride low racers?

John Acres is building his bikes here, in America. Personally, I feel
he deserves a pat on the back.

[Mark Leuck]

"Steve in SC" > wrote in message
om...

>. What's so wrong with that? Should a retired couple be
> forced to ride low racers?

That would be kinda neat, as far as I know only 2 Barons exist in the
Dallas/Ft Worth area. I'd almost be glad to get dusted by a 80 year old

[The late lamented Pikey]

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

> Ask a simple question and I get such rude and offensive responses.

Could the fact that you persist in asking the question long after it becomes
plain that no-one else gives a toss have anything to do with it, do you
suppose.

The late lamented Pikey
Nomad

[Edward Wong]

> Let's see, you defend tooth and nail a bike that you don't own and WILL
> NOT BUY. I ask why people would buy this bike, and you, who WILL NOT BUY
> one, keep answering. You keep telling us how great this bike is, but you
> WILL NOT BUY one. I want to hear from people who have bought one, why
> they did. Not from someone who WILL NOT BUY one.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
> upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
> Oscar Wilde

I see that the main point of this discussion has flown over your head
like the proverbial P-38 (not the recumbent). There is no sense in
perpetuating this conversation. Good bye Lorenzo.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[mike s]

Steve: Well said. Whatever happened to "I may not agree with what
you say but will defend to the death your right to say it"? I am not
a Bigha fan. so, I won't buy. What other people want to do with
their money is their business. I don't own an SUV but that doesn't
mean others have problems splurging on these big, obnoxious,
gas-guzzling.........oops, got carried away there. I don't think that
this bike will replace Bacchetta (or even Cycle Genius), nor will it
take the recumbent world to a new level of acceptance, but so what.
Those who buy, more power to you. Those who don't (like me), we will
be content with our Barcrofts, Visions, T-bones, or whatever. There
is room for all.


Mike S.
St. Louis, Mo

Barcroft Virginia
BArcroft Columbia
RANS Rocket.

[TJ Theismen]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message t>...

> Have you ridden any other recumbents before buying a Bigha? Or since?
> Why did you decide to spend that much when there are other much cheaper
> bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this bike superior to
> similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the
> equal to similarly priced but much higher performance bikes? Does that
> voice in your head often tell you to spend that kind of money?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

You seem to think bikes are simply classed by weight and cost without
any other variables, when in fact there are many.

The quality, comfort and style of the Bigha I find to be unequaled.
And of course, nobody else even has the electronics, which are a
blast.

I've seen and tried many other recumbents: some I've ridden 50+ miles,
so I have a great idea what they have to offer. In my mind, none of
the bikes I tried compares to my Bigha. I think you have to look at
the bike to get a sense of the quality. You just get the sense that
this one is made better, and that they thought of absolutely
everything.

You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
deal. That's all that matters to me.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> Congrats TJ. Glad you like the new bike, and on behalf of everyone
> here at A.R.B.R., THANK YOU for getting L.L.L. to shut it for once.
>
> Looks like someone finally answered his question ("have you paid $3000
> for a Bigha?")!! Good work my friend!

That's all it took, someone to honestly answer a simple question, even
though it was an entirely subjective answer with no qualitative data.
One whole person actually bought this bike. What a groundswell of support!

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
Art Buchwald

[Lawrence Turner]

What bike isn't purchased on subjective opinions? Life is no
mathematical formula: we all have different tastes. If a guy paid
$3000 for his Bigha, and likes it, then I'd say it's a pretty good
deal, wouldn't you?

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message >...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
>
> > Congrats TJ. Glad you like the new bike, and on behalf of everyone
> > here at A.R.B.R., THANK YOU for getting L.L.L. to shut it for once.
> >
> > Looks like someone finally answered his question ("have you paid $3000
> > for a Bigha?")!! Good work my friend!
>
> That's all it took, someone to honestly answer a simple question, even
> though it was an entirely subjective answer with no qualitative data.
> One whole person actually bought this bike. What a groundswell of support!
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
> person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
> newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
> Art Buchwald

[JEGARH]

Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love" >
wrote in message

>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
>deal. That's all that matters to me.

Well said, LLL.

Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.

If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.

Jerry



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[JEGARH]

JEGARH [/i]
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Tj Theismen wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message[i]
> >You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
> >deal. That's all that matters to me.
> Well said, TJ.
> Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
> If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
> Jerry



OOPs I meant TJ as shown above.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Lorenzo L. Love]

JEGARH wrote:
> Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love" >
> wrote in message
>
>
>>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
>>deal. That's all that matters to me.
>
>
> Well said, LLL.
>
> Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
>
> If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
>
> Jerry

I didn't write any of the above. If you are in the habit of paying twice
what things are worth, then it will not be long before you can not
afford anything. But even if you are so wealthy that the money doesn't
matter, there is an ethical consideration. Look at it this way: You can
spend $3000 and brag to your neighbors about how much you spent or you
can buy a comparative bicycle for half as much and quietly give the
difference to charity. Conspicuous consumption or helping the needy. We
know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Rich Westerman]

We
> know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
> conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>



uh oh! heretical thread time:

what (recumbent) would jesus drive?



--


rich


"After ecstasy, laundry." - Zen writing

[Robert Siegel]

My guess: Jesus would be living in a slum in Rome/Salt Lake City/ London/
Wherever.

When he walked into the Great Mother Church ... what would hit the fan? My
guess: every church leader in sight.

Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"Rich Westerman" > wrote in message
s.com...
> We
> > know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
> > conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
>
>
>
> uh oh! heretical thread time:
>
> what (recumbent) would jesus drive?
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> rich
>
>
> "After ecstasy, laundry." - Zen writing
>
>

[MLB]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:0Yuub.4981$sb4.3245
@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> JEGARH wrote:
>> Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love"
>
>> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
>>>deal. That's all that matters to me.
>>
>>
>> Well said, LLL.
>>
>> Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
>>
>> If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
>>
>> Jerry
>
> I didn't write any of the above. If you are in the habit of paying
twice
> what things are worth, then it will not be long before you can not
> afford anything. But even if you are so wealthy that the money doesn't
> matter, there is an ethical consideration. Look at it this way: You
can
> spend $3000 and brag to your neighbors about how much you spent or you
> can buy a comparative bicycle for half as much and quietly give the
> difference to charity. Conspicuous consumption or helping the needy.
We
> know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
> conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi
>
>

Your misconceptions make you look really silly.

[Tom Sherman]

Robert Siegel wrote:
>
> My guess: Jesus would be living in a slum in Rome/Salt Lake City/ London/
> Wherever.
>
> When he walked into the Great Mother Church ... what would hit the fan? My
> guess: every church leader in sight.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Lorenzo L. Love]

MLB wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:0Yuub.4981$sb4.3245
> @newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>
>>JEGARH wrote:
>>
>>>Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love"
>
> >
>
>>>wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
>>>>deal. That's all that matters to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well said, LLL.
>>>
>>>Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
>>>
>>>If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
>>>
>>>Jerry
>>
>>I didn't write any of the above. If you are in the habit of paying
>
> twice
>
>>what things are worth, then it will not be long before you can not
>>afford anything. But even if you are so wealthy that the money doesn't
>>matter, there is an ethical consideration. Look at it this way: You
>
> can
>
>>spend $3000 and brag to your neighbors about how much you spent or you
>>can buy a comparative bicycle for half as much and quietly give the
>>difference to charity. Conspicuous consumption or helping the needy.
>
> We
>
>>know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
>>conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
>> Mohandas K. Gandhi
>>
>>
>
>
> Your misconceptions make you look really silly.

The culture of conspicuous consumption is a misconception in the land of
the Hummer?

"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
Mohandas K. Gandhi

[MLB]

>
> I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>

>
I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
And so F'ing true.

[William Higley, Sr.]

I think we should check on the color of the bike. If it's red then we know
TJ is a godless commie mole planted in our midst.

Why I just bet he has been waiting for the right time to break upon the
scene and urge us into a spending spree. Once this country has bankrupted
itself on conspicuous consumerism, then the communist party will re-emerge
and start upon it's halted plan of world domination.

When the dust has finally cleared we will find that the BiGHA is actually
made by Yugo and is only worth $1.25. Dear God, if only we had listened to
L.L.L.

William Higley, Sr.
Vision R-50
RANS Rocket

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> MLB wrote:
>
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in news:0Yuub.4981$sb4.3245
> > @newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> >
> >
> >>JEGARH wrote:
> >>
> >>>Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love"
> >
> > >
> >
> >>>wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
> >>>>deal. That's all that matters to me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Well said, LLL.
> >>>
> >>>Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
> >>>
> >>>If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
> >>>
> >>>Jerry
> >>
> >>I didn't write any of the above. If you are in the habit of paying
> >
> > twice
> >
> >>what things are worth, then it will not be long before you can not
> >>afford anything. But even if you are so wealthy that the money doesn't
> >>matter, there is an ethical consideration. Look at it this way: You
> >
> > can
> >
> >>spend $3000 and brag to your neighbors about how much you spent or you
> >>can buy a comparative bicycle for half as much and quietly give the
> >>difference to charity. Conspicuous consumption or helping the needy.
> >
> > We
> >
> >>know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
> >>conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>
> >>"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> >> Mohandas K. Gandhi
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Your misconceptions make you look really silly.
>
> The culture of conspicuous consumption is a misconception in the land of
> the Hummer?
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi
>

[Lawrence Turner]

Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.

Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> JEGARH wrote:
> > Originally posted by Tj Theismen "Lorenzo L. Love" >
> > wrote in message
> >
> >
> >>You may consider $3,000 to be too expensive, but I think it's a good
> >>deal. That's all that matters to me.
> >
> >
> > Well said, LLL.
> >
> > Something is worth what you are willing to pay for it.
> >
> > If you have to worry about the price then you can't afford it.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> I didn't write any of the above. If you are in the habit of paying twice
> what things are worth, then it will not be long before you can not
> afford anything. But even if you are so wealthy that the money doesn't
> matter, there is an ethical consideration. Look at it this way: You can
> spend $3000 and brag to your neighbors about how much you spent or you
> can buy a comparative bicycle for half as much and quietly give the
> difference to charity. Conspicuous consumption or helping the needy. We
> know what the typical American would come down firmly on the side of
> conspicuous consumption. What would Jesus do?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi

[MLB]

Oh come on! I don't know anyone that owns a Hummer. I've seen ONE in our city
of 300,000. They sell MABYE 10,000? of those a year.
So everyone in Holland hangs out in the coffeehouses and smokes hash right?
All Germans are really secret Nazi sympathizers?
All Italians are hot headed and passionate? (well ok, maybe that one's true)
Gezzus, do you try to pigeonhole EVERYONE you meet?


>
> The culture of conspicuous consumption is a misconception in the land of
> the Hummer?
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi
>
>

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
>
> Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
> you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
> and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.

You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.

This shows how far people will go to justify the culture of conspicuous
consumption.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...
> >
> > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> > so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi

> I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> And so F'ing true.

No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
right. He was a mess.

Instead of attacking and berating Christians, maybe you could say a
few words about the Muslims, including the extremists who are wreaking
all the havoc in the world today. But as always you have your head
screwed on crooked and so you can't ever get anything right.
Congratulations. I admire people who are consistent about things, even
if consistently wrong.

Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
politically correct to do so. Why don't you show some courage and try
beating up on a group who are not so politically correct, like maybe
the Muslims for instance. All this anti-Christian crap here is
disgusting - and why pretend to have a reverence for Jesus Christ? You
are lying about that the same as you are lying about his followers.
The Devil take you!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message >...

> My guess: Jesus would be living in a slum in Rome/Salt Lake City/ London/
> Wherever.
>
> When he walked into the Great Mother Church ... what would hit the fan? My
> guess: every church leader in sight.
>
> Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

Am I detecting an anti-Christian bigotry here on ARBR? I am guessing
that maybe Mr. Siegel is Jewish which may account for his hatred of
Christians, but is it really acceptable that we should all just sit
here and listen to crap like this? I am not aware that the Christian
leadership is any different than is the Jewish leadership, human
nature being what it is. The only religious leadership that I ever
thought was not up to a minimum standard was that of the Muslim
religion. Maybe Mr. Siegel would like to make a comment about that
rather than taking cheap shots at the Christians.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...

> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> > Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> > it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> > somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
> >
> > Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
> > you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
> > and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.
>
> You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
> piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
> bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
> Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
> for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
> great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
> we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
> price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
> info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
> much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
> price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
>
> This shows how far people will go to justify the culture of conspicuous
> consumption.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love

Hang in there Lorenzo! You are the only one making any sense on this
subject thread. I am taking notes on your methods of argumentation,
but it is your sound thinking that amazes me the most. I would be
constantly getting sidetracked by all the asides, but I note how you
stay on the subject come hell or high water. Frankly, I am not looking
forward to tangling with you but I suspect it is bound to happen
sooner or later.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
now would it?
Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?

As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.

It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
circles.

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> > Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> > it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> > somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
> >
> > Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
> > you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
> > and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.
>
> You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
> piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
> bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
> Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
> for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
> great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
> we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
> price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
> info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
> much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
> price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
>
> This shows how far people will go to justify the culture of conspicuous
> consumption.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
> the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
> now would it?
> Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
> how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?
>
> As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
> he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
> not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
> specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.
>
> It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
> circles.

Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend
that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and
boil down to he just likes it better.

There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a
bicycle he himself does not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a
free review model?

Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile.
Only the few reviewers like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and
accept no advertising can be judged impartial and honest.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
Mohandas K. Gandhi


>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>>Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
>>>Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
>>>it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
>>>somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
>>>
>>>Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
>>>you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
>>>and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.
>>
>>You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
>>piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
>>bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
>>Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
>>for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
>>great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
>>we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
>>price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
>>info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
>>much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
>>price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
>>
>>This shows how far people will go to justify the culture of conspicuous
>>consumption.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
>> Mohandas K. Gandhi

[skip]

"Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
om...
<snip>
> MLB > wrote in message
>...
> > >
> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> > > so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> > And so F'ing true.


>
> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
> politically correct to do so.

> Ed Dolan - Minnesota


I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot me or
blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on the P.C.
protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian stuff posted
here. They do it because they can get away with it.

White southern rural guys (rednecks) have always considered political
correctness a hoot. We know if liberals will slur and stereotype us they
will slur and stereotype others. We are also amused by the recently
assigned P.C. protection for rednecks. It seems in their endless vote
counting liberals discovered they didn't get a single redneck vote. A
handful of redneck votes and they would be in power. Recognizing this they
have extended their P.C. protection to us. We are now and hence forth to be
referred to as "NASCAR Dads" with no slurring or stereotyping allowed. And
yes Tom, you must capitalize NASCAR. We are most assuredly laughing out
loud.

skip

[Tom Sherman]

"William Higley, Sr." wrote:
>
> I think we should check on the color of the bike. If it's red then we know
> TJ is a godless commie mole planted in our midst.
>
> Why I just bet he has been waiting for the right time to break upon the
> scene and urge us into a spending spree. Once this country has bankrupted
> itself on conspicuous consumerism, then the communist party will re-emerge
> and start upon it's halted plan of world domination....

Dang, they're on to us!

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
RED Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer [TM]

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> MLB > wrote in message >...
> > >
> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> > > so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> > And so F'ing true.
>
> No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> feeling holier than thou....

For Mr. Dolan's benefit:

"It is a first class human tragedy that people of the earth who claim to
believe in the message of Jesus, whom they describe as the Prince of
Peace, show little of that belief in actual practice." - Mohandas Gandhi

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

$kip wrote:
> ... And yes Tom, you must capitalize NASCAR. We are most assuredly
> laughing out loud.

I thought it was NA$CAR.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[skip]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> $kip wrote:
> > ... And yes Tom, you must capitalize NASCAR. We are most assuredly
> > laughing out loud.
>
> I thought it was NA$CAR.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Some of us think so, yes. The love of money has driven the sport away from
its southern roots.

skip

[Tom Sherman]

skip wrote:
>
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > $kip wrote:
> > > ... And yes Tom, you must capitalize NASCAR. We are most assuredly
> > > laughing out loud.
> >
> > I thought it was NA$CAR.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Some of us think so, yes. The love of money has driven the sport away from
> its southern roots.

How many of the current drivers ever got chased by Treasury agents while
delivering a load of moonshine?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[MLB]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in
om:

> MLB > wrote in message
> >...
>> >
>> > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
>> > are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
>> I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
>> And so F'ing true.
>
> No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
> right. He was a mess.
>
> Instead of attacking and berating Christians, maybe you could say a
> few words about the Muslims, including the extremists who are wreaking
> all the havoc in the world today. But as always you have your head
> screwed on crooked and so you can't ever get anything right.
> Congratulations. I admire people who are consistent about things, even
> if consistently wrong.
>
> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
> politically correct to do so. Why don't you show some courage and try
> beating up on a group who are not so politically correct, like maybe
> the Muslims for instance. All this anti-Christian crap here is
> disgusting - and why pretend to have a reverence for Jesus Christ? You
> are lying about that the same as you are lying about his followers.
> The Devil take you!
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>

I AM a Christian, you senile old ****.

[MLB]

"skip" > wrote in
:

>
> "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> om...
> <snip>
>> MLB > wrote in message
> >...
>> > >
>> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your
>> > > Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>>
>> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
>> > And so F'ing true.
>
>
>>
>> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK
>> and politically correct to do so.
>
>> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
> I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot
> me or blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on
> the P.C. protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian
> stuff posted here. They do it because they can get away with it.
>
> White southern rural guys (rednecks) have always considered political
> correctness a hoot. We know if liberals will slur and stereotype us
> they will slur and stereotype others. We are also amused by the
> recently assigned P.C. protection for rednecks. It seems in their
> endless vote counting liberals discovered they didn't get a single
> redneck vote. A handful of redneck votes and they would be in power.
> Recognizing this they have extended their P.C. protection to us. We
> are now and hence forth to be referred to as "NASCAR Dads" with no
> slurring or stereotyping allowed. And yes Tom, you must capitalize
> NASCAR. We are most assuredly laughing out loud.
>
> skip
>
>

I am Lutheran and attended parochial school from K -12. I attend church
on a semi-regular basis and AM a Christian in every sense of the word
EXCEPT for being tolerant of redneck assholes like you.
Here's a concept that I'm sure you're not familiar with, PEOPLE WITH
CONFIDENCE AND FAITH IN THEIR BELIEFS AREN'T AFRAID TO POKE FUN AT
THEMSELVES OR LOOK AT THEIR BELIEFS WITH AN OBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW.
Get a ****ing clue moron.

[MLB]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in
om:

> MLB > wrote in message
> >...
>> >
>> > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
>> > are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
>> I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
>> And so F'ing true.
>
> No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
> right. He was a mess.
>
> Instead of attacking and berating Christians, maybe you could say a
> few words about the Muslims, including the extremists who are wreaking
> all the havoc in the world today. But as always you have your head
> screwed on crooked and so you can't ever get anything right.
> Congratulations. I admire people who are consistent about things, even
> if consistently wrong.
>
> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
> politically correct to do so. Why don't you show some courage and try
> beating up on a group who are not so politically correct, like maybe
> the Muslims for instance. All this anti-Christian crap here is
> disgusting - and why pretend to have a reverence for Jesus Christ? You
> are lying about that the same as you are lying about his followers.
> The Devil take you!
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota


Only morons and WEAK believers have ANY TROUBLE laughing at themselves or
looking at what their fellow followers ACTUALLY DO.
Which do you fall under? Both I would guess.

[Mikael Seierup]

"skip" skrev...
> I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot me or
> blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on the P.C.
> protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian stuff posted
> here. They do it because they can get away with it.

"They"? The godless commies on their _red_ bikes?

Anyway Gandhi might have mentioned Christians but you could substitute
any god and his/her /its believers.

Speaking of Christians don't you just love Bush's "Turn the other cheek"-doctrine?
As in "Commit a terrorist act against the US and we will invade a country
that had nothing to do with it." I bet that scares all the nasty ungodly terrorists. ;-)

Mikael

[Lawrence Turner]

Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
a Bigha.

What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
give his opinion and you deem it worthless.

Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
>
> > Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
> > the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
> > now would it?
> > Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
> > how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?
> >
> > As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
> > he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
> > not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
> > specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.
> >
> > It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
> > circles.
>
> Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend
> that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
> class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
> expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
> but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and
> boil down to he just likes it better.
>
> There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a
> bicycle he himself does not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a
> free review model?
>
> Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile.
> Only the few reviewers like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and
> accept no advertising can be judged impartial and honest.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> Mohandas K. Gandhi
>
>
> >
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> >
> >>Lawrence Turner wrote:
> >>
> >>>Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> >>>Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> >>>it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> >>>somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
> >>>
> >>>Now owning a Bigha is wasteful, unethical and blasphemus. Way to go,
> >>>you've graduated from Troll to Jihadist! I think you need to chill
> >>>and maybe think about something other than Bigha for a day.
> >>
> >>You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
> >>piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
> >>bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
> >>Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
> >>for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
> >>great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
> >>we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
> >>price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
> >>info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
> >>much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
> >>price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
> >>
> >>This shows how far people will go to justify the culture of conspicuous
> >>consumption.
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>
> >>"There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
> >> Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Dave Larrington]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> How many of the current drivers ever got chased by Treasury agents
> while delivering a load of moonshine?

Treasury agents? Tsk. The word is "revenooers".

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Dave Larrington]

http://music.marshmallowtreat.org/jesus.htm

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[skip]

"MLB" > wrote in message
7.136...
> "skip" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Edward Dolan" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > <snip>
> >> MLB > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> > >
> >> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your
> >> > > Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
> >>
> >> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> >> > And so F'ing true.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK
> >> and politically correct to do so.
> >
> >> Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> >
> > I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> > respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot
> > me or blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on
> > the P.C. protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian
> > stuff posted here. They do it because they can get away with it.
> >
> > White southern rural guys (rednecks) have always considered political
> > correctness a hoot. We know if liberals will slur and stereotype us
> > they will slur and stereotype others. We are also amused by the
> > recently assigned P.C. protection for rednecks. It seems in their
> > endless vote counting liberals discovered they didn't get a single
> > redneck vote. A handful of redneck votes and they would be in power.
> > Recognizing this they have extended their P.C. protection to us. We
> > are now and hence forth to be referred to as "NASCAR Dads" with no
> > slurring or stereotyping allowed. And yes Tom, you must capitalize
> > NASCAR. We are most assuredly laughing out loud.
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
>
> I am Lutheran and attended parochial school from K -12. I attend church
> on a semi-regular basis and AM a Christian in every sense of the word
> EXCEPT for being tolerant of redneck assholes like you.
> Here's a concept that I'm sure you're not familiar with, PEOPLE WITH
> CONFIDENCE AND FAITH IN THEIR BELIEFS AREN'T AFRAID TO POKE FUN AT
> THEMSELVES OR LOOK AT THEIR BELIEFS WITH AN OBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW.
> Get a ****ing clue moron.

For all I care you can take your obscene rantings and tack them up your
Lutheran church bulletin board and share your objective point of view with
them.

skip

[skip]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> skip wrote:
> >
> > "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > $kip wrote:
> > > > ... And yes Tom, you must capitalize NASCAR. We are most assuredly
> > > > laughing out loud.
> > >
> > > I thought it was NA$CAR.
> > >
> > > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
> >
> > Some of us think so, yes. The love of money has driven the sport away
from
> > its southern roots.
>
> How many of the current drivers ever got chased by Treasury agents while
> delivering a load of moonshine?
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earthn\

Exactly none. There's a tendency toward driver/spokesmodels these days.

skip

[skip]

"Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message
...
>
> "skip" skrev...
> > I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> > respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot me
or
> > blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on the P.C.
> > protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian stuff posted
> > here. They do it because they can get away with it.
>
> "They"? The godless commies on their _red_ bikes?


I have no idea what color bikes you guys ride.



> Anyway Gandhi might have mentioned Christians but you could substitute
> any god and his/her /its believers.
>

Of course you could.

> Speaking of Christians don't you just love Bush's "Turn the other
cheek"-doctrine?

The other cheek was turned turned a long time ago. It's search and destroy
time.


> As in "Commit a terrorist act against the US and we will invade a country
> that had nothing to do with it." I bet that scares all the nasty ungodly
terrorists. ;-)


What is it you want now? Saddam back?

skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
> nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
> technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
> hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
> somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
> a Bigha.
>
> What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
> their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
> are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
> give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>
> Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
> attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
> he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?

By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
psychological disorder.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Edward Wong]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> MLB > wrote in message >...
> > >
> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> > > so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> > And so F'ing true.
>
> No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
> right. He was a mess.

Mr. Dolan, what do you know about Gandhi? He liberated his country
from an imperialist occupation without firing a shot. A mess?
Hardly. If you think Jesus Christ would approve of war mongering in
order to spread his beliefs...you have something else coming.

Edward Wong

[Lawrence Turner]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
> > nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
> > technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
> > hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
> > somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
> > a Bigha.
> >
> > What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
> > their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
> > are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
> > give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
> >
> > Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
> > attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
> > he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>
> Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
> continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
> buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
> it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
> several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
> little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
> Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
> details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
> continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
> this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>
> By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
> conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
> psychological disorder.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
> Charles Manson


What have I lied about? I expressed an opinion that the Bigha owner
answered your question nicely. If you do not agree with this, fine by
me. But the fact that you failed to ask a follow-up or express any
dissatisfaction to this answer speaks volumes to me.

I do not think you're a liar, Mr Love. I think you are downright
crazy. You quote Charles Manson and wage an extremist Jihad against a
bike which you haven't even seen. Call me a Bigha employee, correct
my netiquette and dodge the issue all you want, but the question
remains: Why do you continually talk out of both sides of your mouth?
You've been caught several times here, and when confronted you only
revert to your childish ramblings. A direct answer would be
appreciated.

Thank you.

[bentbiker]

Personally I prefer "Top Posting" so I don't have to scan all the bull
crap of prior posts.

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>>Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
>>>nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
>>>technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
>>>hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
>>>somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
>>>a Bigha.
>>>
>>>What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
>>>their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
>>>are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
>>>give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>>>
>>>Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
>>>attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
>>>he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>>
>>Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
>>continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
>>buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
>>it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
>>several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
>>little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
>>Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
>>details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
>>continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
>>this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>>
>>By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
>>conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
>>psychological disorder.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> What have I lied about? I expressed an opinion that the Bigha owner
> answered your question nicely. If you do not agree with this, fine by
> me. But the fact that you failed to ask a follow-up or express any
> dissatisfaction to this answer speaks volumes to me.
>
> I do not think you're a liar, Mr Love. I think you are downright
> crazy. You quote Charles Manson and wage an extremist Jihad against a
> bike which you haven't even seen. Call me a Bigha employee, correct
> my netiquette and dodge the issue all you want, but the question
> remains: Why do you continually talk out of both sides of your mouth?
> You've been caught several times here, and when confronted you only
> revert to your childish ramblings. A direct answer would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>>Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
>>>nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
>>>technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
>>>hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
>>>somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
>>>a Bigha.
>>>
>>>What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
>>>their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
>>>are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
>>>give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>>>
>>>Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
>>>attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
>>>he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>>
>>Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
>>continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
>>buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
>>it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
>>several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
>>little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
>>Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
>>details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
>>continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
>>this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>>
>>By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
>>conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
>>psychological disorder.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> What have I lied about? I expressed an opinion that the Bigha owner
> answered your question nicely. If you do not agree with this, fine by
> me. But the fact that you failed to ask a follow-up or express any
> dissatisfaction to this answer speaks volumes to me.
>
> I do not think you're a liar, Mr Love. I think you are downright
> crazy. You quote Charles Manson and wage an extremist Jihad against a
> bike which you haven't even seen. Call me a Bigha employee, correct
> my netiquette and dodge the issue all you want, but the question
> remains: Why do you continually talk out of both sides of your mouth?
> You've been caught several times here, and when confronted you only
> revert to your childish ramblings. A direct answer would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

Here's a direct answer. Your three previous posts each contained a
deliberate blatant lie about what I have said. You have repeatedly
demonstrated that you can not be trusted in anything you say. You attack
me for asking questions and fanatically defend a bicycle that you
yourself would not buy. You are psychologically disturbed. Please seek
help from a mental health professional.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...
[...]
> I AM a Christian, you senile old ****.

Then you are a **** poor Christian, you God Damn Moran!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...
[...]
> I am Lutheran and attended parochial school from K -12. I attend church
> on a semi-regular basis and AM a Christian in every sense of the word
> EXCEPT for being tolerant of redneck assholes like you.
> Here's a concept that I'm sure you're not familiar with, PEOPLE WITH
> CONFIDENCE AND FAITH IN THEIR BELIEFS AREN'T AFRAID TO POKE FUN AT
> THEMSELVES OR LOOK AT THEIR BELIEFS WITH AN OBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW.
> Get a ****ing clue moron.

This gutless wonder would never have the guts to "poke fun" at the
Jewish religion or the Muslim religion though would he? He is nothing
but a politically correct ******* who because he is a liberal thinks
he can get away with murder. All in the name of "poking fun"! Some
assholes call it satire. Screw you all the way to hell and back you
lying SOB!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> MLB > wrote in message >...
> [...]
> > I AM a Christian, you senile old ****.
>
> Then you are a **** poor Christian, you God Damn Moran!

What is a "Moran"?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Edward Dolan]

MLB > wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in
> om:
>
> > MLB > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> >
> >> > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
> >> > are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
> >> I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> >> And so F'ing true.
> >
> > No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> > that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> > feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
> > right. He was a mess.
> >
> > Instead of attacking and berating Christians, maybe you could say a
> > few words about the Muslims, including the extremists who are wreaking
> > all the havoc in the world today. But as always you have your head
> > screwed on crooked and so you can't ever get anything right.
> > Congratulations. I admire people who are consistent about things, even
> > if consistently wrong.
> >
> > Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
> > politically correct to do so. Why don't you show some courage and try
> > beating up on a group who are not so politically correct, like maybe
> > the Muslims for instance. All this anti-Christian crap here is
> > disgusting - and why pretend to have a reverence for Jesus Christ? You
> > are lying about that the same as you are lying about his followers.
> > The Devil take you!
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
> Only morons and WEAK believers have ANY TROUBLE laughing at themselves or
> looking at what their fellow followers ACTUALLY DO.
> Which do you fall under? Both I would guess.

No, you said it was "so ****ing true". Which is it? Are you laughing
at your religious conceits or do you think Gandhi was right in his
estimation of Christians? Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, I am completely without any religious faith whatsoever, so
I am essentially neutral about all of this. But I do not like to see
Christians being picked on because they are the foundation of this
country and this democracy. Besides, if you are going to pick on
religions, all those others out there are so much more deserving of
your attention and could frankly use some good sound criticism. Like
Gandhi's religion for instance.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"skip" > wrote in message >...

> "MLB" > wrote in message
> 7.136...
[...]
> > I am Lutheran and attended parochial school from K -12. I attend church
> > on a semi-regular basis and AM a Christian in every sense of the word
> > EXCEPT for being tolerant of redneck assholes like you.
> > Here's a concept that I'm sure you're not familiar with, PEOPLE WITH
> > CONFIDENCE AND FAITH IN THEIR BELIEFS AREN'T AFRAID TO POKE FUN AT
> > THEMSELVES OR LOOK AT THEIR BELIEFS WITH AN OBJECTIVE POINT OF VIEW.
> > Get a ****ing clue moron.
>
> For all I care you can take your obscene rantings and tack them up your
> Lutheran church bulletin board and share your objective point of view with
> them.
>
> skip

Skip, let me handle this guy. He is too low for you but I am right on
his level. You must reserve your superior and very subtle intellect
for those of us here that can appreciate it. The gutter belongs to me!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[skip]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > MLB > wrote in message
>...
> > [...]
> > > I AM a Christian, you senile old ****.
> >
> > Then you are a **** poor Christian, you God Damn Moran!
>
> What is a "Moran"?
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

He meant moron you moran. ;

skip

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> By the way, I am completely without any religious faith whatsoever, so
> I am essentially neutral about all of this. But I do not like to see
> Christians being picked on because they are the foundation of this
> country and this democracy. Besides, if you are going to pick on
> religions, all those others out there are so much more deserving of
> your attention and could frankly use some good sound criticism. Like
> Gandhi's religion for instance.

"Don't mess with the Church Of RANS. Like Texans, only more so." -
Warren Block

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...The gutter belongs to me!

***CHEAP SHOT***

Crawling up out of the sewer then, eh?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Edward Dolan]

(Edward Wong) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...

> > MLB > wrote in message >...
> > > >
> > > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are
> > > > so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> > > And so F'ing true.
> >
> > No, it is not ****ing true at all and I am getting fed up with seeing
> > that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> > feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life
> > right. He was a mess.
>
> Mr. Dolan, what do you know about Gandhi? He liberated his country
> from an imperialist occupation without firing a shot. A mess?
> Hardly. If you think Jesus Christ would approve of war mongering in
> order to spread his beliefs...you have something else coming.
>
> Edward Wong

I will admit that I do not know too much about Gandhi, surely not as
much as Mr. Sherman who seems to be able to drop a quotation from him
on this newsgroup on every chance occasion. However, he was an Indian
and India is and always has been such a mess, that I cannot take
anyone coming out of that accursed land with any seriousness, most
especially when they are bent on lecturing the West. It is about on a
par with the Devil lecturing God on goodness and virtue.

It is absurd that we in the West would listen to anything someone like
Gandhi would have to say about us. Only Mr. Sherman and similar types
who do not much like the West would listen to Gandhi's meandering
mumbling about the West let alone furnish us with quotations from him.
I prefer my philosophers to be from and for the West, not from a
basket case from Hell like India and very much against the West. But
it you like Gandhi, you are welcome to him.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message >...

> "skip" skrev...
> > I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> > respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot me or
> > blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on the P.C.
> > protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian stuff posted
> > here. They do it because they can get away with it.
>
> "They"? The godless commies on their _red_ bikes?

Poor Mr. Seierup! He still thinks the Soviet Union is about to over
run Europe, not yet realizing that the Soviet Union was decisively
defeated by The United States of America this past century (thanks in
large measure to President Reagan). But worry on about the "commies",
even though it is the Muslim terrorists you should be worried about.
But I guess that won't happen until they blow a few holes in
Copenhagen.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...

[...]

> By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
> conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
> psychological disorder.

Damn Lorenzo! I couldn't agree with you more on all the top posting
that is going on here of late. I think any and all posts should have a
bit of what has preceded at the top where it logically belongs. It
need not be the entire message, but only that part you are responding
too, but damn it, it should be at the top and not down at the bottom!
This is not rocket science.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...

> http://music.marshmallowtreat.org/jesus.htm

Nope, won't read it because you did not precede it with some kind of
introductory or appropriate comment. If you want me to read what you
submit, you must let me know what you think of what you are submitting
so I can either agree or disagree with you. That seems fair to me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> I will admit that I do not know too much about Gandhi, surely not as
> much as Mr. Sherman who seems to be able to drop a quotation from him
> on this newsgroup on every chance occasion....

To brighten Mr. Dolan's day:

"Jesus was the most active resister known perhaps to history. His was
nonviolence par excellence." - Mohandas Gandhi

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> "Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message >...
>
> > "skip" skrev...
> > > I'm not a religious guy, at least not in the orthodox sense, but I do
> > > respect the religion of others as long as they aren't trying to shoot me or
> > > blow up the place where I work. Christians for sure aren't on the P.C.
> > > protected list so you will see this sort of anti-Christian stuff posted
> > > here. They do it because they can get away with it.
> >
> > "They"? The godless commies on their _red_ bikes?
>
> Poor Mr. Seierup! He still thinks the Soviet Union is about to over
> run Europe, not yet realizing that the Soviet Union was decisively
> defeated by The United States of America this past century (thanks in
> large measure to President Reagan). But worry on about the "commies",
> even though it is the Muslim terrorists you should be worried about.
> But I guess that won't happen until they blow a few holes in
> Copenhagen.

It can be safely assumed in most cases that anyone using the term
"godless commies" is not being too serious.

P.S. I hope Rush Limbaugh gets bitten by a Felis concolor.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

Turn your monitor upside down then.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
>
> [...]
>
> > By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
> > conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
> > psychological disorder.
>
> Damn Lorenzo! I couldn't agree with you more on all the top posting
> that is going on here of late. I think any and all posts should have a
> bit of what has preceded at the top where it logically belongs. It
> need not be the entire message, but only that part you are responding
> too, but damn it, it should be at the top and not down at the bottom!
> This is not rocket science.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

bentbiker > wrote in message >...

> Personally I prefer "Top Posting" so I don't have to scan all the bull
> crap of prior posts.

But all that is involved is scanning, not a reread of the prior post
word for word. It is necessary for orientation for others that may be
just picking up on that particular message and not following all the
prior posts in the thread. I do think that it is not always necessary
to post the entire previous post but just that portion of it that you
are responding to.

For instance, you could have managed your post much better. Here is
how I would have done it:

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

>>By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
>>conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another
sign of
>>psychological disorder.

>Personally I prefer "Top Posting" so I don't have to scan all the
bull
>crap of prior posts.

>Bentbiker

Everything else could have been eliminated entirely as it is not
germane to what you are responding to. And since you are in fact
responding to something that was written prior to your post it
naturally follows that it should precede what you have written. This
makes it all that much easier for the reader to follow what is being
said. And after all, that is the only reason that any of us are here
in the first place.

I would be interested in what others on this newsgroup have to say
about the correct and best way of posting messages here on ARBR. I am
fairly new at this myself and I have mostly modeled my own posts after
Mr. Sherman. Surely clarity for the reader has got to be the main
consideration.

I think it is always important to make sure that the correct person
gets credited with what he has said so that there is no confusion as
to who said what. But I am not always sure the best way of
accomplishing this. I notice that some do not do any editing at all,
but I am inclined to do a bit of editing, but I will admit you have to
be careful so as to do justice to the prior post. Too much editing is
probably worse than too little editing.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I am leaving all the rest of Bentbiker's post included at the bottom
so that we can all clearly see how unnecessary it is to have it here
at all.


Lawrence Turner wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>>Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
>>>nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you
wanted
>>>technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave
no
>>>hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
>>>somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price
for
>>>a Bigha.
>>>
>>>What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
>>>their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think
these
>>>are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
>>>give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>>>
>>>Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth
to
>>>attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta?
Is
>>>he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>>
>>Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
>>continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would
never
>>buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine
if
>>it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
>>several times said that reviews from people who get items for free
have
>>little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
>>Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
>>details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
>>continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
>>this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>>
>>By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
>>conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another
sign of
>>psychological disorder.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>?In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody?s
crazy.?
>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> What have I lied about? I expressed an opinion that the Bigha owner
> answered your question nicely. If you do not agree with this, fine by
> me. But the fact that you failed to ask a follow-up or express any
> dissatisfaction to this answer speaks volumes to me.
>
> I do not think you're a liar, Mr Love. I think you are downright
> crazy. You quote Charles Manson and wage an extremist Jihad against a
> bike which you haven't even seen. Call me a Bigha employee, correct
> my netiquette and dodge the issue all you want, but the question
> remains: Why do you continually talk out of both sides of your mouth?
> You've been caught several times here, and when confronted you only
> revert to your childish ramblings. A direct answer would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

[Lawrence Turner]

> Here's a direct answer. Your three previous posts each contained a
> deliberate blatant lie about what I have said. You have repeatedly
> demonstrated that you can not be trusted in anything you say. You attack
> me for asking questions and fanatically defend a bicycle that you
> yourself would not buy. You are psychologically disturbed. Please seek
> help from a mental health professional.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
> wrong."
> Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

Could you please point out an exact instance of my lying? I've reread
each post and believe them to be truthful. Where am I wrong?

Here are some instances of you lying:

1) You've said reviewers who don't pay full price cannot be trusted.
Only full price customers can provide a truly objective view. When a
Bigha customer comes along and provides his insight, you dismiss it as
"vague" and "objective." Now you say (and you've said this before)
that people will do anything to defend their ignorant purchases.

So which is it? Who's to be trusted for reviews? It would seem that
in the case of your personal Jihad against Bigha you will say anything
to maintain your delusional stance.

2) You claim the Bigha owner's answer to your question to be
unsatisfactory, however you failed - and have yet to - ask a follow up
question. You asked why he liked the bike and bought it even though
it was more expensive than others. He said it was nicer than any
other bike he's seen and he bought it because it makes him happy.
That seems like a good enough answer to me.

The real reason you did not ask a follow-up is that you know you've
lost the argument. LLL has never failed to get the last word in,
especially in his Bigha Jihad. This time all of his arguments were
defeated, and he simply had no comeback. Be a man and admit it.

3) Why do you continually say I'm defending this bike? I may have said
nice things about Bigha in the past, but I believe my posts on this
particular thread have been aimed at pointing out your lies and not
discussing the highs and lows of a Bigha. Yet another distractionary
tactic by LLL.

By the way, forcing us to click the "read the rest of this message"
button to see your post is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. Following some
obscure rule about not top-posting to the point of making your own
message difficult to read just goes to show how little of the big
picture you really see.

Finally, do you think a mental health professional could help me or
any of us? I think we all know LLL would never recommend a product or
service he himself has not tried. The only question is: did you pay
full price or did you get a specail reviewer's discount?

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > MLB > wrote in message >...
> > [...]
> > > I AM a Christian, you senile old ****.
> >
> > Then you are a **** poor Christian, you God Damn Moran!
>
> What is a "Moran"?
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

You are hereby appointed to be my editor. How the devil do you expect
me to get every word exactly right when I am so blooming mad that I
can't see straight! Moran should be moron of course. But MLB
understands what I am saying to him surely. We morons understand one
another even though we sometimes get our words all screwed up. The
important thing is to convey the requisite negative emotions. I do not
think I am ever lacking in that department.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > "Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message >...
[...]
> > > "They"? The godless commies on their _red_ bikes?
> >
> > Poor Mr. Seierup! He still thinks the Soviet Union is about to over
> > run Europe, not yet realizing that the Soviet Union was decisively
> > defeated by The United States of America this past century (thanks in
> > large measure to President Reagan). But worry on about the "commies",
> > even though it is the Muslim terrorists you should be worried about.
> > But I guess that won't happen until they blow a few holes in
> > Copenhagen.
>
> It can be safely assumed in most cases that anyone using the term
> "godless commies" is not being too serious.

Not at all. Atheism was the "religion" of the Soviet Union, although
Leninism was the real religion. In other words, get rid of religion
and you will have to substitute something else in its place. Man will
not and cannot live without religion.

> P.S. I hope Rush Limbaugh gets bitten by a Felis concolor.

No, I am not going to look up Felis concolor. For a good part of my
life I have been looking up items for others as a librarian, and now
that I am no longer a librarian I am not even going to look up things
for myself. I am happy in my ignorance of what ever the heck a Felis
concolor is.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[donald1951]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> MLB > wrote in message
> >...
> > >
> > > I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
> > > are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi
> > I think that's is one of the most clever remarks I've ever "heard".
> > And so F'ing true.
> that bit of drivel posted here on ARBR every time someone gets to
> feeling holier than thou. Gandhi hardly got anything in his life right.
> He was a mess.
> Instead of attacking and berating Christians, maybe you could say a
> few words about the Muslims, including the extremists who are wreaking
> all the havoc in the world today. But as always you have your head
> screwed on crooked and so you can't ever get anything right.
> Congratulations. I admire people who are consistent about things, even
> if consistently wrong.
> Only cowards and scoundrels beat up on Christians because it is OK and
> politically correct to do so. Why don't you show some courage and try
> beating up on a group who are not so politically correct, like maybe
> the Muslims for instance. All this anti-Christian crap here is
> disgusting - and why pretend to have a reverence for Jesus Christ? You
> are lying about that the same as you are lying about his followers. The
> Devil take you!
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Why don't we try not to beat up on anyone. A few bad apples in the
basket does not make the bushel bad.

Donald Hennessey



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ...
> > I will admit that I do not know too much about Gandhi, surely not as
> > much as Mr. Sherman who seems to be able to drop a quotation from him
> > on this newsgroup on every chance occasion....
>
> To brighten Mr. Dolan's day:
>
> "Jesus was the most active resister known perhaps to history. His was
> nonviolence par excellence." - Mohandas Gandhi

Preachers, prophets, ministers and priests are not known for their
violence with the single exception of Mohamed. Seeing as how the
Muslim religion has over taken much of this globes population, who is
to say that violence is not the way to go.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ...The gutter belongs to me!
>
> ***CHEAP SHOT***
>
> Crawling up out of the sewer then, eh?
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

It takes one to know one. I have learned how to do combat on this
newsgroup mostly from you. You have been the teacher, I have been the
student. Now we shall reap the whirlwind together.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Wong) wrote in message >...
[...]
> > Mr. Dolan, what do you know about Gandhi? He liberated his country
> > from an imperialist occupation without firing a shot. A mess?
> > Hardly. If you think Jesus Christ would approve of war mongering in
> > order to spread his beliefs...you have something else coming.
> >
> > Edward Wong
[...]

The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
you would too.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Scott]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Turn your monitor upside down then.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message et>...
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > By the way, top posting is considered bad netiquette. Refusing to
> > > conform to accepted societal norms of polite behavior is another sign of
> > > psychological disorder.
> >
> > Damn Lorenzo! I couldn't agree with you more on all the top posting
> > that is going on here of late. I think any and all posts should have a
> > bit of what has preceded at the top where it logically belongs. It
> > need not be the entire message, but only that part you are responding
> > too, but damn it, it should be at the top and not down at the bottom!
> > This is not rocket science.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Meow! Meow!

Scott

[Edward Wong]

> The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> you would too.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

And yet another lesson from the book titled: History of The World
According to Ed Dolan, available at your nearest Spencer's Gifts or
other "quality" novelty shops.

Edward Wong
Orlando, FL

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>Here's a direct answer. Your three previous posts each contained a
>>deliberate blatant lie about what I have said. You have repeatedly
>>demonstrated that you can not be trusted in anything you say. You attack
>>me for asking questions and fanatically defend a bicycle that you
>>yourself would not buy. You are psychologically disturbed. Please seek
>>help from a mental health professional.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
>>wrong."
>>Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).
>
>
> Could you please point out an exact instance of my lying? I've reread
> each post and believe them to be truthful. Where am I wrong?
>
> Here are some instances of you lying:
>
> 1) You've said reviewers who don't pay full price cannot be trusted.
> Only full price customers can provide a truly objective view. When a
> Bigha customer comes along and provides his insight, you dismiss it as
> "vague" and "objective." Now you say (and you've said this before)
> that people will do anything to defend their ignorant purchases.
>
> So which is it? Who's to be trusted for reviews? It would seem that
> in the case of your personal Jihad against Bigha you will say anything
> to maintain your delusional stance.
>
> 2) You claim the Bigha owner's answer to your question to be
> unsatisfactory, however you failed - and have yet to - ask a follow up
> question. You asked why he liked the bike and bought it even though
> it was more expensive than others. He said it was nicer than any
> other bike he's seen and he bought it because it makes him happy.
> That seems like a good enough answer to me.
>
> The real reason you did not ask a follow-up is that you know you've
> lost the argument. LLL has never failed to get the last word in,
> especially in his Bigha Jihad. This time all of his arguments were
> defeated, and he simply had no comeback. Be a man and admit it.
>
> 3) Why do you continually say I'm defending this bike? I may have said
> nice things about Bigha in the past, but I believe my posts on this
> particular thread have been aimed at pointing out your lies and not
> discussing the highs and lows of a Bigha. Yet another distractionary
> tactic by LLL.
>
> By the way, forcing us to click the "read the rest of this message"
> button to see your post is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. Following some
> obscure rule about not top-posting to the point of making your own
> message difficult to read just goes to show how little of the big
> picture you really see.
>
> Finally, do you think a mental health professional could help me or
> any of us? I think we all know LLL would never recommend a product or
> service he himself has not tried. The only question is: did you pay
> full price or did you get a specail reviewer's discount?

Every one of your posts is full of lies. Why are you on this vendetta? I
criticize a company for selling a grossly overpriced product and you,
who would not buy the product either, become its greatest defender.
Please stop the lies and seek the services of a mental health
professional. As of now, you have so little connection to reality as to
be in the same class as Ed Dolan.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1847
: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
defective or lost contact with reality

© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

[Hashim El Amin]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
>
> > (Edward Wong) wrote in message >...
> [...]
> > > Mr. Dolan, what do you know about Gandhi? He liberated his country
> > > from an imperialist occupation without firing a shot. A mess?
> > > Hardly. If you think Jesus Christ would approve of war mongering in
> > > order to spread his beliefs...you have something else coming.
> > >
> > > Edward Wong
> [...]
>
> The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> you would too.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
making yourself look incredibly stupid.

[Edward Dolan]

donald1951 > wrote in message >...
[...]
> Why don't we try not to beat up on anyone. A few bad apples in the
> basket does not make the bushel bad.
>
> Donald Hennessey


Donald, I am fed up with liberals taking cheap shots at Christians, as
if all the problems in the word are due to Christians instead of
Muslims. Political correctness is the greatest abomination that has
ever come down the pike. The major media and the institutions of
higher education in this country are full of it. It means that
liberals are free to be critical of Christians and the rest of us are
just suppose to sit back and not say anything about it. But God help
you if you want to say something critical of Muslims. As you may have
surmised by now, I am not into political correctness and I mean to
show these scoundrels up for the cowards that they are.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

(Scott) wrote in message >...

[...]

> Meow! Meow!
>
> Scott

Too stupid! Words fail me!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

> Every one of your posts is full of lies. Why are you on this vendetta? I
> criticize a company for selling a grossly overpriced product and you,
> who would not buy the product either, become its greatest defender.
> Please stop the lies and seek the services of a mental health
> professional. As of now, you have so little connection to reality as to
> be in the same class as Ed Dolan.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> Etymology: New Latin
> Date: 1847
> : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> defective or lost contact with reality
>
> © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated


Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.

It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.

In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.

Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
not they'd paid $3,000 for one.

Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
idiot. Which is it?

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>Every one of your posts is full of lies. Why are you on this vendetta? I
>>criticize a company for selling a grossly overpriced product and you,
>>who would not buy the product either, become its greatest defender.
>>Please stop the lies and seek the services of a mental health
>>professional. As of now, you have so little connection to reality as to
>>be in the same class as Ed Dolan.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>Function: noun
>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>Etymology: New Latin
>>Date: 1847
>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>defective or lost contact with reality
>>
>>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>
>
>
> Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
> owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
> be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.

I did. You are lying again.

>
> It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
> several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.

I did. You are lying again.
>
> In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
> company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
> defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
> point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.

That's just nuts.

>
> Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
> Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
> believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
> service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
> Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
> not they'd paid $3,000 for one.
>
> Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
> idiot. Which is it?

You know, there are antipsychotic drugs that can help you with these
delusions.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1847
: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
defective or lost contact with reality

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> No, I am not going to look up Felis concolor. For a good part of my
> life I have been looking up items for others as a librarian, and now
> that I am no longer a librarian I am not even going to look up things
> for myself. I am happy in my ignorance of what ever the heck a Felis
> concolor is.

Pictures of a Felis concolor:
<http://www.dnr.state.wv.us/wvwildlife/nongame/color%20cougar.jpg>
<http://www.greatcatsoftheworld.com/assets/images/cougar-ext.v1.jpg>.

Rush Limbaugh was advocating that TAXPAYER MONEY (in the form of
bounties paid to hunters) be used to kill these cats.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

Hashim El Amin wrote:
>
> Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
> Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you [Edward Dolan] change the topic as > you're only making yourself look incredibly stupid.

***CHEAP SHOT***

Isn't that the point of debating Mr. Dolan? ;)

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Edward Dolan]

(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
[...]
> > The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> > place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> > a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> > particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> > half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> > like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> > if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> > with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> > you would too.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
> Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
> making yourself look incredibly stupid.

Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt, and he
does not have one thing to say about the Islamic terrorists who are
infesting the world with their odious views and murderous actions.
Are their views all that different than those of the "peaceful"
Muslims? Maybe he could enlighten us instead of contributing to the
invective. Or maybe we are not suppose to be making any judgements
about the Islamic religion even though a branch of it are the scum of
the earth. Come on Hashim, tell it like it is if you are such a giant
intellect on the subject.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> ...
> Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt...

I would not jump to that conclusion so quickly. There are of course
Arabs who follow religions other than Islam, and Christians compose a
significant portion of the Lebanese and Palestinian Arab populations.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ...
> > Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt...
>
> I would not jump to that conclusion so quickly. There are of course
> Arabs who follow religions other than Islam, and Christians compose a
> significant portion of the Lebanese and Palestinian Arab populations.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

The Christian Lebanese were and are the only progressive element in
the entire Middle East (other than the Israelis of course). I did not
know that any significant number of Palestinians are Christians. Life
must be very difficult for them.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > ...
> > No, I am not going to look up Felis concolor. For a good part of my
> > life I have been looking up items for others as a librarian, and now
> > that I am no longer a librarian I am not even going to look up things
> > for myself. I am happy in my ignorance of what ever the heck a Felis
> > concolor is.
>
> Pictures of a Felis concolor:
> <http://www.dnr.state.wv.us/wvwildlife/nongame/color%20cougar.jpg>
> <http://www.greatcatsoftheworld.com/assets/images/cougar-ext.v1.jpg>.
>
> Rush Limbaugh was advocating that TAXPAYER MONEY (in the form of
> bounties paid to hunters) be used to kill these cats.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Good Grief! Are you listening to old Rushdie? I may have mentioned in
the past that although I do appreciate Rush I by no means agree with
him on everything.
Almost all conservatives are out to lunch on environmental issues. The
Dems are much better on taking care of mother earth. When I was
younger I used to vote for the Dems on this single issue alone.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Good Grief! Are you listening to old Rushdie? I may have mentioned in
> the past that although I do appreciate Rush I by no means agree with
> him on everything.
> Almost all conservatives are out to lunch on environmental issues. The
> Dems are much better on taking care of mother earth. When I was
> younger I used to vote for the Dems on this single issue alone.

radio station on.

Limbaugh's style would turn me off even if I agreed with him.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> The Christian Lebanese were and are the only progressive element in
> the entire Middle East (other than the Israelis of course). I did not
> know that any significant number of Palestinians are Christians. Life
> must be very difficult for them.

FWIW, Yasser Arafat's wife is a Christian.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[skip]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
<<snip>>
I did not
> > know that any significant number of Palestinians are Christians. Life
> > must be very difficult for them.
>
> FWIW, Yasser Arafat's wife is a Christian.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Get you facts straight Tom. ;-) She converted to Islam in 1990 after he
secret marriage to Arafat who is 34 years her senior. She was convent
educated and the daughter of wealthy Christian parents.

She has been quoted as saying that she hates Israelis and opposes
normalization with them.

Love is strange. Sometimes it's real strange, but it sounds as if she's
adapting well.

skip

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Good Grief! Are you listening to old Rushdie? I may have mentioned in
> the past that although I do appreciate Rush I by no means agree with
> him on everything.
> Almost all conservatives are out to lunch on environmental issues. The
> Dems are much better on taking care of mother earth. When I was
> younger I used to vote for the Dems on this single issue alone.

For the record, I was looking for something in our soil lab at work, and
someone else had the local yak radio station on.

Limbaugh's style would turn me off even if I agreed with him.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Mark Leuck]

"skip" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> > >
> <<snip>>
> I did not
> > > know that any significant number of Palestinians are Christians. Life
> > > must be very difficult for them.
> >
> > FWIW, Yasser Arafat's wife is a Christian.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Get you facts straight Tom. ;-) She converted to Islam in 1990 after he
> secret marriage to Arafat who is 34 years her senior. She was convent
> educated and the daughter of wealthy Christian parents.
>
> She has been quoted as saying that she hates Israelis and opposes
> normalization with them.
>
> Love is strange. Sometimes it's real strange, but it sounds as if she's
> adapting well.
>
> skip

Love isn't so strange when you are worth billions

http://www.interversity.com/lists/aftersept11/archives/aug2002/msg00020.html

[Hashim El Amin]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> (Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...
>
> > (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> [...]
> > > The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> > > place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> > > a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> > > particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> > > half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> > > like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> > > if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> > > with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> > > you would too.
> > >
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> > Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
> > Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
> > making yourself look incredibly stupid.
>
> Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt, and he
> does not have one thing to say about the Islamic terrorists who are
> infesting the world with their odious views and murderous actions.
> Are their views all that different than those of the "peaceful"
> Muslims? Maybe he could enlighten us instead of contributing to the
> invective. Or maybe we are not suppose to be making any judgements
> about the Islamic religion even though a branch of it are the scum of
> the earth. Come on Hashim, tell it like it is if you are such a giant
> intellect on the subject.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Is there a question or a point in there, or just another monologue on
your bigoted and uneducated views? Those who know nothing on a subject
should not act as though they're experts.

[Lawrence Turner]

> > Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
> > owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
> > be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.
>
> I did. You are lying again.
>
> >
> > It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
> > several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.
>
> I did. You are lying again.
> >
> > In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
> > company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
> > defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
> > point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.
>
> That's just nuts.
>
> >
> > Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
> > Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
> > believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
> > service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
> > Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
> > not they'd paid $3,000 for one.
> >
> > Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
> > idiot. Which is it?
>
> You know, there are antipsychotic drugs that can help you with these
> delusions.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> Etymology: New Latin
> Date: 1847
> : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> defective or lost contact with reality

While in the dictionary, please look up words such as "specific,"
"detail," and the verb "elaborate." Then try to make your post meet
those guidelines.

Have you paid full price for antipsychotic drugs?

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

>>>Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
>>>owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
>>>be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.
>>
>>I did. You are lying again.
>>
>>
>>>It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
>>>several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.
>>
>>I did. You are lying again.
>>
>>>In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
>>>company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
>>>defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
>>>point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.
>>
>>That's just nuts.
>>
>>
>>>Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
>>>Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
>>>believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
>>>service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
>>>Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
>>>not they'd paid $3,000 for one.
>>>
>>>Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
>>>idiot. Which is it?
>>
>>You know, there are antipsychotic drugs that can help you with these
>>delusions.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>Function: noun
>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>Etymology: New Latin
>>Date: 1847
>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>defective or lost contact with reality
>
>
> While in the dictionary, please look up words such as "specific,"
> "detail," and the verb "elaborate." Then try to make your post meet
> those guidelines.
>
> Have you paid full price for antipsychotic drugs?

It seems that the one single person, TJ Theismen, who claimed to have
actually purchased a Bigha is the same person attempting identity theft
as shown by his static addres 65.125.99.194 being the same in both
messages. That demonstrates that like Lawrence Turner, he is a liar, and
most likely also like Lawrence Turner, a deeply disturbed individual. So
we can discount any statements of his as likely fabrications. So I have
to ask again, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
other people."
Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

[Mark Leuck]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> It seems that the one single person, TJ Theismen, who claimed to have
> actually purchased a Bigha is the same person attempting identity theft
> as shown by his static addres 65.125.99.194 being the same in both
> messages. That demonstrates that like Lawrence Turner, he is a liar, and
> most likely also like Lawrence Turner, a deeply disturbed individual. So
> we can discount any statements of his as likely fabrications. So I have
> to ask again, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
> liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>

So it seems that even when someone comes out and says he has one he is then
branded a liar and disturbed?

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > Good Grief! Are you listening to old Rushdie? I may have mentioned in
> > the past that although I do appreciate Rush I by no means agree with
> > him on everything.
> > Almost all conservatives are out to lunch on environmental issues. The
> > Dems are much better on taking care of mother earth. When I was
> > younger I used to vote for the Dems on this single issue alone.
>
> For the record, I was looking for something in our soil lab at work, and
> someone else had the local yak radio station on.
>
> Limbaugh's style would turn me off even if I agreed with him.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

The only way to look at Rush is as entertainment primarily. He admits
also that that is his main function. But of course the underlying
instruction in conservative ideology is going on all the time. But who
else do you know who could go on the air for 3 hours a day 5 times a
week and more or less be fairly consistent in providing a high level
of entertainment. All liberal talk shows fail miserably at this.
Despite what you may think of Rush, he is often brilliant in his
analysis of things and also in the way he says things. On occasion you
can just about die from laughter at some of the things he says about
liberals.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
>
> >>>Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
> >>>owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
> >>>be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.
> >>
> >>I did. You are lying again.
> >>
> >>
> >>>It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
> >>>several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.
> >>
> >>I did. You are lying again.
> >>
> >>>In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
> >>>company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
> >>>defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
> >>>point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.
> >>
> >>That's just nuts.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
> >>>Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
> >>>believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
> >>>service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
> >>>Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
> >>>not they'd paid $3,000 for one.
> >>>
> >>>Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
> >>>idiot. Which is it?
> >>
> >>You know, there are antipsychotic drugs that can help you with these
> >>delusions.
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>
> >>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> >>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> >>Function: noun
> >>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> >>Etymology: New Latin
> >>Date: 1847
> >>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> >>defective or lost contact with reality
> >
> >
> > While in the dictionary, please look up words such as "specific,"
> > "detail," and the verb "elaborate." Then try to make your post meet
> > those guidelines.
> >
> > Have you paid full price for antipsychotic drugs?
>
> It seems that the one single person, TJ Theismen, who claimed to have
> actually purchased a Bigha is the same person attempting identity theft
> as shown by his static addres 65.125.99.194 being the same in both
> messages. That demonstrates that like Lawrence Turner, he is a liar, and
> most likely also like Lawrence Turner, a deeply disturbed individual. So
> we can discount any statements of his as likely fabrications. So I have
> to ask again, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
> liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
> other people."
> Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

At what point will you finally break down and answer a question asked
of you? Do you not know what a question mark (?) is? When you see a
? at the end of a sentence, it means someone is asking you a question.
Smart people recognize this and then respond with a statement that
directly answers the question given to them. You have failed to do so
despite being given numerous chances. Either you are stupid or
somebody did not teach you how to read English.

Please look into a program called "Hooked on Phonics." Many people
find it to be useful.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>
>>It seems that the one single person, TJ Theismen, who claimed to have
>>actually purchased a Bigha is the same person attempting identity theft
>>as shown by his static addres 65.125.99.194 being the same in both
>>messages. That demonstrates that like Lawrence Turner, he is a liar, and
>>most likely also like Lawrence Turner, a deeply disturbed individual. So
>>we can discount any statements of his as likely fabrications. So I have
>>to ask again, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
>>liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>
>
> So it seems that even when someone comes out and says he has one he is then
> branded a liar and disturbed?
>
>

No, when someone posts under two different names, one of them
impersonating me, from the same computer as shown by the same static
addres of 65.125.99.194, THAT makes him a liar. The need to lie makes it
seem likely that he is mentally disturbed. Does he even have a Bigha?
That seems very questionable now, especially considering how vague his
comments on it were.

Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to
stick to possibilities; truth isn't."
- Mark Twain (1835-1910).

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Again, you've failed to outline details. If you criticized the Bigha
>>>>>owner's post for being subjective, what do you consider your own to
>>>>>be? I ask you again: name a specific instance of my lying.
>>>>
>>>>I did. You are lying again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It would look something like my previous post in which I outlined
>>>>>several of your lies - none of which, it should be noted, you denied.
>>>>
>>>>I did. You are lying again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In your most recent post, you lie yet again, by saying I'm the
>>>>>company's biggest defender. The fact of the matter is I have not
>>>>>defended Bigha on this thread. The main purpose of my posts is to
>>>>>point out your lies and expose the Jihad you lead against Bigha.
>>>>
>>>>That's just nuts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thank you for your recommendation of a mental health professional.
>>>>>Have you paid full price for such services? I have a hard time
>>>>>believing that you, of all people, would recommend a product or
>>>>>service that you have not tried when the basis of your anti-Bigha
>>>>>Jihad was asking anyone with anything to say on the bike whether or
>>>>>not they'd paid $3,000 for one.
>>>>>
>>>>>Either you're the world's biggest hypocrite or the world's biggest
>>>>>idiot. Which is it?
>>>>
>>>>You know, there are antipsychotic drugs that can help you with these
>>>>delusions.
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>>>Function: noun
>>>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>>>Etymology: New Latin
>>>>Date: 1847
>>>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>>>defective or lost contact with reality
>>>
>>>
>>>While in the dictionary, please look up words such as "specific,"
>>>"detail," and the verb "elaborate." Then try to make your post meet
>>>those guidelines.
>>>
>>>Have you paid full price for antipsychotic drugs?
>>
>>It seems that the one single person, TJ Theismen, who claimed to have
>>actually purchased a Bigha is the same person attempting identity theft
>>as shown by his static addres 65.125.99.194 being the same in both
>>messages. That demonstrates that like Lawrence Turner, he is a liar, and
>>most likely also like Lawrence Turner, a deeply disturbed individual. So
>>we can discount any statements of his as likely fabrications. So I have
>>to ask again, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
>>liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
>>other people."
>> Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).
>
>
> At what point will you finally break down and answer a question asked
> of you? Do you not know what a question mark (?) is? When you see a
> ? at the end of a sentence, it means someone is asking you a question.
> Smart people recognize this and then respond with a statement that
> directly answers the question given to them. You have failed to do so
> despite being given numerous chances. Either you are stupid or
> somebody did not teach you how to read English.
>
> Please look into a program called "Hooked on Phonics." Many people
> find it to be useful.

Are you now claiming that you can't even read your own posts? Go back
and read the lies you posted. Then get some professional help.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
wrong."
Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

[Edward Dolan]

(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...

> > > > The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> > > > place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> > > > a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> > > > particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> > > > half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> > > > like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> > > > if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> > > > with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> > > > you would too.

> > > Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
> > > Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
> > > making yourself look incredibly stupid.
> >
> > Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt, and he
> > does not have one thing to say about the Islamic terrorists who are
> > infesting the world with their odious views and murderous actions.
> > Are their views all that different than those of the "peaceful"
> > Muslims? Maybe he could enlighten us instead of contributing to the
> > invective. Or maybe we are not suppose to be making any judgements
> > about the Islamic religion even though a branch of it are the scum of
> > the earth. Come on Hashim, tell it like it is if you are such a giant
> > intellect on the subject.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Is there a question or a point in there, or just another monologue on
> your bigoted and uneducated views? Those who know nothing on a subject
> should not act as though they're experts.

The point of my message was to get you to say something about the
Islamic terrorists, other than something like "I do not approve of
them". I have already gotten that much from Ian, another Muslim on
this newsgroup who otherwise does not have much to say about Muslim
terrorists. In other words, I would like to hear something from the
Muslims about how their brethren are behaving in the world. Or maybe
you do approve. I suspect you of being the ultimate bigot and the
ultimate ignoramus. By your silence here you are saying that it is OK
if my fellow Muslims kill Christians in their insane jihad against the
West. I say speak up or shut up!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

> >
> > At what point will you finally break down and answer a question asked
> > of you? Do you not know what a question mark (?) is? When you see a
> > ? at the end of a sentence, it means someone is asking you a question.
> > Smart people recognize this and then respond with a statement that
> > directly answers the question given to them. You have failed to do so
> > despite being given numerous chances. Either you are stupid or
> > somebody did not teach you how to read English.
> >
> > Please look into a program called "Hooked on Phonics." Many people
> > find it to be useful.
>
> Are you now claiming that you can't even read your own posts? Go back
> and read the lies you posted. Then get some professional help.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
> wrong."
> Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).

Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
psychological assistance?

Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>>At what point will you finally break down and answer a question asked
>>>of you? Do you not know what a question mark (?) is? When you see a
>>>? at the end of a sentence, it means someone is asking you a question.
>>> Smart people recognize this and then respond with a statement that
>>>directly answers the question given to them. You have failed to do so
>>>despite being given numerous chances. Either you are stupid or
>>>somebody did not teach you how to read English.
>>>
>>>Please look into a program called "Hooked on Phonics." Many people
>>>find it to be useful.
>>
>>Are you now claiming that you can't even read your own posts? Go back
>>and read the lies you posted. Then get some professional help.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"The worst-tempered people I've ever met were people who knew they were
>>wrong."
>>Wilson Mizner, American playwright (1876-1933).
>
>
> Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
> anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
> not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
> is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
> psychological assistance?
>
> Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
> any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
> kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
> you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.

What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many
lies. Lies that are in defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in
defence of someone who has committed identity theft. If you are trolling
for pity, you have it.

Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
Oscar Wilde

[Hashim El Amin]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> (Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...
>
> > (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
>
> > > > > The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
> > > > > place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
> > > > > a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
> > > > > particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
> > > > > half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
> > > > > like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
> > > > > if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
> > > > > with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
> > > > > you would too.
>
> > > > Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
> > > > Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
> > > > making yourself look incredibly stupid.
> > >
> > > Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt, and he
> > > does not have one thing to say about the Islamic terrorists who are
> > > infesting the world with their odious views and murderous actions.
> > > Are their views all that different than those of the "peaceful"
> > > Muslims? Maybe he could enlighten us instead of contributing to the
> > > invective. Or maybe we are not suppose to be making any judgements
> > > about the Islamic religion even though a branch of it are the scum of
> > > the earth. Come on Hashim, tell it like it is if you are such a giant
> > > intellect on the subject.
> > >
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> > Is there a question or a point in there, or just another monologue on
> > your bigoted and uneducated views? Those who know nothing on a subject
> > should not act as though they're experts.
>
> The point of my message was to get you to say something about the
> Islamic terrorists, other than something like "I do not approve of
> them". I have already gotten that much from Ian, another Muslim on
> this newsgroup who otherwise does not have much to say about Muslim
> terrorists. In other words, I would like to hear something from the
> Muslims about how their brethren are behaving in the world. Or maybe
> you do approve. I suspect you of being the ultimate bigot and the
> ultimate ignoramus. By your silence here you are saying that it is OK
> if my fellow Muslims kill Christians in their insane jihad against the
> West. I say speak up or shut up!
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

What silly logic. I have as much to do with terrorism as you do with
Michael Jackson molesting children. I don't have to explain or
apologize to you for anything I didn't do, no more than you have to
condemn the actions of Jackson, Kobe Bryant, the Green River killer or
that lady in Texas who killed her children.
Because you "read a book" and watch CNN and Fox News, you now consider
yourself an expert on Islam. But if you really want to know the
truth, why don't you head down to your local mosque or find a place to
meet some muslims in your area? You'll probably find that they won't
try to kill you, they won't be mean to you, and they won't even try to
convert you - much less at the point of a sword. Instead, you'll
probably meet someone you have a lot in common with. Maybe someone
like me who enjoys playing golf and riding recumbent bicycles. Or you
might hear someone lecturing on how groups like Al Qaeda have nothing
to do with Islam and must be stopped. This is what I hear every week,
despite seeing on the news that we preach hatred and destruction of
America. Although this is not the sensationalized stuff that gets
angry people like yourself to buy books or tune in their TVs, it's the
best way to understand the true religion.
But if it makes you happier, please feel free to continue to spew lies
on a subject you know nothing about. Just find another place to do so,
or at least make it relate to recumebents in some way.

[Larry Varney]

Hashim El Amin wrote:
> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
>
(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...
>>
>>
(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>The Brits were pretty much determined to leave India in any event. The
>>>>>>place was more a burden to them than an asset. As for J.C. ever being
>>>>>>a war monger, you need to look a few centuries later for that
>>>>>>particular personage. It was Mohamed. He and his warriors converted
>>>>>>half the civilized world at the point of a sword. They still think
>>>>>>like that to this very day. But apparently it is alright with liberals
>>>>>>if such people acquire nuclear weapons. When liberals are threatened
>>>>>>with either Allah or death, they will choose Allah. Sounds like maybe
>>>>>>you would too.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>Hopefully you're not as ignorant on other subjects as you are on
>>>>>Muhammad and Islam. I suggest you change the topic as you're only
>>>>>making yourself look incredibly stupid.
>>>>
>>>>Here is a guy whose name is Hashim El Amin, a Muslim no doubt, and he
>>>>does not have one thing to say about the Islamic terrorists who are
>>>>infesting the world with their odious views and murderous actions.
>>>>Are their views all that different than those of the "peaceful"
>>>>Muslims? Maybe he could enlighten us instead of contributing to the
>>>>invective. Or maybe we are not suppose to be making any judgements
>>>>about the Islamic religion even though a branch of it are the scum of
>>>>the earth. Come on Hashim, tell it like it is if you are such a giant
>>>>intellect on the subject.
>>>>
>>>>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>>>
>>>Is there a question or a point in there, or just another monologue on
>>>your bigoted and uneducated views? Those who know nothing on a subject
>>>should not act as though they're experts.
>>
>>The point of my message was to get you to say something about the
>>Islamic terrorists, other than something like "I do not approve of
>>them". I have already gotten that much from Ian, another Muslim on
>>this newsgroup who otherwise does not have much to say about Muslim
>>terrorists. In other words, I would like to hear something from the
>>Muslims about how their brethren are behaving in the world. Or maybe
>>you do approve. I suspect you of being the ultimate bigot and the
>>ultimate ignoramus. By your silence here you are saying that it is OK
>>if my fellow Muslims kill Christians in their insane jihad against the
>>West. I say speak up or shut up!
>>
>>Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
> What silly logic. I have as much to do with terrorism as you do with
> Michael Jackson molesting children. I don't have to explain or
> apologize to you for anything I didn't do, no more than you have to
> condemn the actions of Jackson, Kobe Bryant, the Green River killer or
> that lady in Texas who killed her children.
> Because you "read a book" and watch CNN and Fox News, you now consider
> yourself an expert on Islam. But if you really want to know the
> truth, why don't you head down to your local mosque or find a place to
> meet some muslims in your area? You'll probably find that they won't
> try to kill you, they won't be mean to you, and they won't even try to
> convert you - much less at the point of a sword. Instead, you'll
> probably meet someone you have a lot in common with. Maybe someone
> like me who enjoys playing golf and riding recumbent bicycles. Or you
> might hear someone lecturing on how groups like Al Qaeda have nothing
> to do with Islam and must be stopped. This is what I hear every week,
> despite seeing on the news that we preach hatred and destruction of
> America. Although this is not the sensationalized stuff that gets
> angry people like yourself to buy books or tune in their TVs, it's the
> best way to understand the true religion.
> But if it makes you happier, please feel free to continue to spew lies
> on a subject you know nothing about. Just find another place to do so,
> or at least make it relate to recumebents in some way.

I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

[...]

> I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.


From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr.
Varney. All is not sweetness and light in the Muslim World. Other
books have been written which clearly show this. There was a Muslim
author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the
Muslim religion and had some very interesting things to say about it.
He was totally disillusioned with the religion and pointed out many of
its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or
the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open
your eyes. I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam
that wants to make the case that it is a religion of peace and
freedom.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Zippy the Pinhead]

On 24 Nov 2003 09:57:06 -0800, (Hashim El Amin)
wrote:

> But if you really want to know the
>truth, why don't you head down to your local mosque or find a place to
>meet some muslims in your area? You'll probably find that they won't
>try to kill you, they won't be mean to you, and they won't even try to
>convert you - much less at the point of a sword.

OK. Here's a little "thought experiment" to help you unwind after
your hectic Monday.

First, imagine a Muslim wearing traditional garb coming to church
yesterday at a Southern Baptist church in the heart of the
stereotypically Redneck Southern town.

Now imagine ol' Bubba in a ten-gallon Stetson with a flask of Jack
Daniels in his hip pocket being beamed to Medina in the middle of
Ramadan.

Who finished the day with the greater intravascular blood volume?

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
> Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
>
> [...]
>
>
>> I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
>>Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
>>any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
>>to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
>> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
>>might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
>>Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
>
>
>
> From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr.
> Varney. All is not sweetness and light in the Muslim World. Other
> books have been written which clearly show this. There was a Muslim
> author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the
> Muslim religion and had some very interesting things to say about it.
> He was totally disillusioned with the religion and pointed out many of
> its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or
> the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open
> your eyes. I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam
> that wants to make the case that it is a religion of peace and
> freedom.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

ROTFL! Don't tell me that you're not kidding - you're really judging a
book BY ITS TITLE? And who mentioned anything about "sweetness and
light"? Was that in the title? Was that in the book? So, why say that
there are books out there - evidently with titles with which you approve
- which show something that was never in contention.

You must tell us sometime how you can determine everything about a
book's contents, solely by its title. I mean, "a religion of peace and
freeom" wasn't even mentioned, and yet you know that's what the book is
saying, right?

I make a point of trying to learn about things, and one way is by
reading. And by that, I mean reading more than just the title.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
> Hashim El Amin wrote:
>
> I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
> --

Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from
the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion,
interfaith tolerance, and women's rights.

I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work
and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity.
For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death
sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.

Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented.
I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
vs. their beliefs in these matters.

We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

skip

[Tom Sherman]

skip wrote:
>
> "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hashim El Amin wrote:
> >
> > I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> > Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> > any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> > to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> > But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> > might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> > Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
> > --
>
> Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from
> the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
> of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
> link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
> awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
> compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
> should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."
>
> Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>
> Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion,
> interfaith tolerance, and women's rights.
>
> I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work
> and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity.
> For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death
> sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
>
> Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented.
> I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
> vs. their beliefs in these matters.
>
> We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

Yes, and ALL Christians should be judged by the Spanish Inquisition.
[end sarcasm]

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

We may have different religions, different languages, different colored
skin, but we all belong to one human race. We all share the same basic
values. - Kofi Annan

[Mark Leuck]

"skip" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to
work
> and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity.
> For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death
> sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
>
> Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented.
> I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
> vs. their beliefs in these matters.
>
> We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
>
> skip

Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who
claim to follow it

[skip]

"Mark Leuck" > wrote in message
news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...
>
> "skip" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to
> work
> > and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about
Christianity.
> > For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a
death
> > sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
> >
> > Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well
documented.
> > I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their
deeds
> > vs. their beliefs in these matters.
> >
> > We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
> >
> > skip
>
> Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who
> claim to follow it
>
>
I don't think I am.

In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman,
her death sentence was handed down by Muslim authorities in a country
operating under Islamic law.

In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a domitrory fire because the Muslim
authorities would't unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why?
Because girls weren't properly dressed to be outside in the presence of men.
Words fail me to even comment on this.

The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death
for adultery under Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination.
(Of course nothing happens to her male partner in adultery)

I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't
even see them standing up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any
degree of conviction. And we aren't even talking about global terrorism.

If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me
to the beauty and peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name
of Allah blind me to the beauty and peace of Islam.

skip

[Tom Sherman]

skip wrote:
>
> "Mark Leuck" > wrote in message
> news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...
> >
> > "skip" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to
> > work
> > > and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about
> Christianity.
> > > For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a
> death
> > > sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
> > >
> > > Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well
> documented.
> > > I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their
> deeds
> > > vs. their beliefs in these matters.
> > >
> > > We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
> > >
> > > skip
> >
> > Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who
> > claim to follow it
> >
> >
> I don't think I am.
>
> In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman,
> her death sentence was handed down by Muslim authorities in a country
> operating under Islamic law.
>
> In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a domitrory fire because the Muslim
> authorities would't unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why?
> Because girls weren't properly dressed to be outside in the presence of men.
> Words fail me to even comment on this.
>
> The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death
> for adultery under Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination.
> (Of course nothing happens to her male partner in adultery)
>
> I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't
> even see them standing up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any
> degree of conviction. And we aren't even talking about global terrorism.
>
> If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me
> to the beauty and peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name
> of Allah blind me to the beauty and peace of Islam.

There have been plenty of atrocities committed by "Christians" also. In
both cases, the "Christians" and "Muslims" were being false to the true
teachings of the New Testament and Koran. The same can likely be said
for most if not all religions [1] - there will be those who willfully
misinterpret the teachings to suit there own purposes.

[1] Church of RANS excepted, of course. ;) [2], [3]
[2] Recumbent content ;)
[3] Serious and flippant in the same post - this is fun!

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:

> > Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >
> >> I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> >>Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> >>any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> >>to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> >> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> >>might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> >>Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
> >
> >
> >
> > From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr.
> > Varney. All is not sweetness and light in the Muslim World. Other
> > books have been written which clearly show this. There was a Muslim
> > author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the
> > Muslim religion and had some very interesting things to say about it.
> > He was totally disillusioned with the religion and pointed out many of
> > its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or
> > the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open
> > your eyes. I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam
> > that wants to make the case that it is a religion of peace and
> > freedom.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> ROTFL! Don't tell me that you're not kidding - you're really judging a
> book BY ITS TITLE? And who mentioned anything about "sweetness and
> light"? Was that in the title? Was that in the book? So, why say that
> there are books out there - evidently with titles with which you approve
> - which show something that was never in contention.
>
> You must tell us sometime how you can determine everything about a
> book's contents, solely by its title. I mean, "a religion of peace and
> freeom" wasn't even mentioned, and yet you know that's what the book is
> saying, right?
>
> I make a point of trying to learn about things, and one way is by
> reading. And by that, I mean reading more than just the title.

You can tell a lot about a book by its title. Sometimes the whole book
is right there in the title. I would say a book with a title that says
something about confronting America's "false images" is not a book
that is going to tell you anything relevant about Islam. It is going
to be a con job and you are going to fall for it like a lump of lead.

More importantly, you don't know how to read anything from the way you
have read my previous post. First I make a comment about the Muslim
World, not about the book, then I say something about the Muslim
religion not being for peace and freedom and that I "suspect" that the
book is going to make the contrary case.

Based on the title alone I would say you have got a piece of Muslim
propaganda in your hands which is going to whitewash the religion of
any responsibility for what is going on in the world with respect to
Muslim terrorism. You will know this for certain if the book slights
over the Islamic terrorism issue and says little or nothing about it.
Please let me know if I am right or wrong about this after you have
read the book.

It seems we have had this same argument before on another issue. You
seem to have to experience everything first hand in order to know what
to think, whereas I can rely on those who have gone before me, read
their reports and then form my own opinions and judgments. No, I do
not have to experience everything first hand and I do not always have
to read a book either to know what it is about. Before you waste your
time reading this book, why not look up some reviews of it and find
out what others think of it. That way you will know whether it is
worth reading or not.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> skip wrote:
> >
> > "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hashim El Amin wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> > > Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> > > any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> > > to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> > > But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> > > might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> > > Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
> > > --
> >
> > Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from
> > the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
> > of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
> > link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
> > awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
> > compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
> > should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."
> >
> > Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> > these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
> >
> > Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion,
> > interfaith tolerance, and women's rights.
> >
> > I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work
> > and she happened to speak to a Muslim woman who asked about Christianity.
> > For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death
> > sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
> >
> > Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented.
> > I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
> > vs. their beliefs in these matters.
> >
> > We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
>
> Yes, and ALL Christians should be judged by the Spanish Inquisition.
> [end sarcasm]

Mr. Sherman is the best example I know of a little education being a
dangerous thing. To compare what is going on in the world TODAY with
the Spanish Inquisition of roughly 500 years ago is to admit that the
Muslim religion is mired in the Middle Ages. But he is not even aware
of this anomaly. Everything runs together in his mind. All he can ever
be sure of is what his liberal ideology tells him what to think of the
world. As a result he is permanently out to lunch on every major issue
confronting the world we are living in today.

> We may have different religions, different languages, different colored
> skin, but we all belong to one human race. We all share the same basic
> values. - Kofi Annan

Mr. Sherman's true calling I now feel certain would be as a mainstream
religious preacher with sermons full of love and understanding for all
mankind. Actually, my favorite preachers are just the opposite of
that. I like the fire and brimstone variety who preach damnation to
one and all and I especially like it if they are thumping the Bible
while they are shouting at all us sinners. Life doesn't get any better
than that!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> skip wrote:
> >
> > "Mark Leuck" > wrote in message
> > news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...
> > >
> > > "skip" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to
> work
> > > > and she happened to speak to a Muslim woman who asked about
> Christianity.
> > > > For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a
> death
> > > > sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
> > > >
> > > > Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well
> documented.
> > > > I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their
> deeds
> > > > vs. their beliefs in these matters.
> > > >
> > > > We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
> > > >
> > > > skip
> > >
> > > Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who
> > > claim to follow it
> > >
> > >
> > I don't think I am.
> >
> > In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman,
> > her death sentence was handed down by Muslim authorities in a country
> > operating under Islamic law.
> >
> > In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a dormitory fire because the Muslim
> > authorities wouldn't unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why?
> > Because girls weren't properly dressed to be outside in the presence of men.
> > Words fail me to even comment on this.
> >
> > The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death
> > for adultery under Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination.
> > (Of course nothing happens to her male partner in adultery)
> >
> > I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't
> > even see them standing up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any
> > degree of conviction. And we aren't even talking about global terrorism.
> >
> > If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me
> > to the beauty and peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name
> > of Allah blind me to the beauty and peace of Islam.
>
> There have been plenty of atrocities committed by "Christians" also. In
> both cases, the "Christians" and "Muslims" were being false to the true
> teachings of the New Testament and Koran. The same can likely be said
> for most if not all religions [1] - there will be those who willfully
> misinterpret the teachings to suit there own purposes.

I do not know how you can so purposefully misread what skip has
posted. These Muslim atrocities were not false to the religion but
were in accordance with the religion. When the hell are you going to
learn how to read?

Furthermore, a living religion is much more than what is contained in
any book, whether it be the Bible or the Koran. A religion is whatever
is being practiced by its adherents at the time. There are not eternal
truths contained in a Holy Book. It is all subject to how it is
interpreted and practiced at any moment in time.

Also, I do not know why the hell you are putting Christians and
Muslims in quotation marks. A Christian is as Christian does and
Muslim is as Muslim does. There are only words in the Holy Books, not
living breathing people. You are hopeless!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Larry Varney]

skip wrote:

> Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> You can tell a lot about a book by its title. Sometimes the whole book
> is right there in the title.

Only if it's an awfully short book.

>
> It seems we have had this same argument before on another issue. You
> seem to have to experience everything first hand in order to know what
> to think, whereas I can rely on those who have gone before me, read
> their reports and then form my own opinions and judgments. No, I do
> not have to experience everything first hand and I do not always have
> to read a book either to know what it is about. Before you waste your
> time reading this book, why not look up some reviews of it and find
> out what others think of it. That way you will know whether it is
> worth reading or not.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

You're joking, right? You read what others have said and then form
"your" opinions based on what they say? And yet, you won't read a book
to decide, *for yourself*, what it says? You will let others decide
*for you* what *you think*, rather than deciding for yourself?
Honestly, I am in awe of anyone who will so openly admit that they do
not think for themselves. Awe, mixed with disgust and pity.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Larry Varney wrote:
>
>>skip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
>>>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>>
>> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
>
>
> "Duct Tape and Islam".
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Now, now - let's not drag Red Green into this!

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Tom Sherman]

Larry Varney wrote:
>
> skip wrote:
>
> > Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> > these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>
> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
> skip wrote:
>
> > Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> > these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>
> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
>
> --
> Larry Varney
> Cold Spring, KY
> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>

I'm not at all sure why you are asking this question. The title and author
were clearly stated in my post from from whence you lifted the above
sentence.

I'm not sure if you are joking or are having a serious senior moment, but in
any event, let me give it to you in your own words:

>> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
>>might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
>>Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

Remember it now?

skip

[skip]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Larry Varney wrote:
> >
> > skip wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are
doing
> > > these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
> >
> > And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
>
> "Duct Tape and Islam".
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most
often will fall back on silliness.

skip

[Larry Varney]

skip wrote:
> "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>skip wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
>>>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>>
>> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
>>
>>--
>>Larry Varney
>>Cold Spring, KY
>>http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>
>
>
> I'm not at all sure why you are asking this question. The title and author
> were clearly stated in my post from from whence you lifted the above
> sentence.
>
> I'm not sure if you are joking or are having a serious senior moment, but in
> any event, let me give it to you in your own words:
>
>
>>> But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
>>>might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
>>>Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
>
>
> Remember it now?
>
> skip
>
>
My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the
one I had mentioned buying. At this point, not having read it, I don't
know if the answers you seek are in that book. It was written in 2001 -
this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
additional information has been included in the book - so it might not
cover what Muslims are doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and
Jews together."
Of course, I do have to wonder, given the title of the book - and
according to some, the whole book is in the title - ;) - it is possible
that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover
trying to bind any religions together.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Larry Varney]

skip wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Larry Varney wrote:
>>
>>>skip wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are
>
> doing
>
>>>>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>>>
>>> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
>>
>>"Duct Tape and Islam".
>>
>>Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
>
> I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most
> often will fall back on silliness.
>
> skip
>
>

I must have missed that - what is Tom's position regarding this book?
The non-silly position, that is.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[skip]

> > "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> > ...
> My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the
> one I had mentioned buying. At this point, not having read it, I don't
> know if the answers you seek are in that book. It was written in 2001 -
> this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
> additional information has been included in the book - so it might not
> cover what Muslims are doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and
> Jews together."
> Of course, I do have to wonder, given the title of the book - and
> according to some, the whole book is in the title - ;) - it is possible
> that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover
> trying to bind any religions together.
>

The quote I originally posted from "Silent No More - Confronting America's
False Images of Islam" is as follows:

"Most Americans have never read a verse from
the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."

The subject is addressed in the book. I just wonder what Muslims are doing
these days to accomplish those worthy goals. I don't think he will be
quoting Arafat's wife saying she hates Jews and any normalization of
relations with them to illustrate his point.

I would like to hear your take on the book after you read it.

skip

[Larry Varney]

skip wrote:
>>>"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the
>>one I had mentioned buying. At this point, not having read it, I don't
>>know if the answers you seek are in that book. It was written in 2001 -
>>this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
>>additional information has been included in the book - so it might not
>>cover what Muslims are doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and
>>Jews together."
>> Of course, I do have to wonder, given the title of the book - and
>>according to some, the whole book is in the title - ;) - it is possible
>>that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover
>>trying to bind any religions together.
>>
>
>
> The quote I originally posted from "Silent No More - Confronting America's
> False Images of Islam" is as follows:
>
> "Most Americans have never read a verse from
> the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
> of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
> link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
> awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
> compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
> should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."
>
> The subject is addressed in the book. I just wonder what Muslims are doing
> these days to accomplish those worthy goals. I don't think he will be
> quoting Arafat's wife saying she hates Jews and any normalization of
> relations with them to illustrate his point.
>
> I would like to hear your take on the book after you read it.
>
> skip
>
>
I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are
"principles" that "bind" lots of groups and people - shared principles,
common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding together those
groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share
some of the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind
together" the two parties into just one.
What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared
ideas, those groups are already bound together - by those very shared
ideas. But bind them together totally, as in one group? Doubtful. They
share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them separated.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
> skip wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Larry Varney wrote:
> >>

Tom has no non-silly position on these issues. He's reduced to "Duct Tape
and Islam" type comments.

skip
> >>>skip wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are
> >
> > doing
> >
> >>>>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
> >>>
> >>> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?
> >>
> >>"Duct Tape and Islam".
> >>
> >>Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
> >
> >
> > I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he
most
> > often will fall back on silliness.
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
>
> I must have missed that - what is Tom's position regarding this book?
> The non-silly position, that is.
>
> --
> Larry Varney
> Cold Spring, KY
> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
> >
> I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are
> "principles" that "bind" lots of groups and people - shared principles,
> common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding together those
> groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share
> some of the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind
> together" the two parties into just one.
> What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared
> ideas, those groups are already bound together - by those very shared
> ideas. But bind them together totally, as in one group? Doubtful. They
> share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them separated.
>
> --
> Larry Varney
> Cold Spring, KY
> http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>

Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.

My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current
day Judeo-Christian shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion,
peace, interfaith tolerance, women's rights, etc. What rationalizations
does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind (whatever the
author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these
matters?

skip

[Larry Varney]

skip wrote:
> "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are
>>"principles" that "bind" lots of groups and people - shared principles,
>>common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding together those
>>groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share
>>some of the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind
>>together" the two parties into just one.
>> What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared
>>ideas, those groups are already bound together - by those very shared
>>ideas. But bind them together totally, as in one group? Doubtful. They
>>share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them separated.
>>
>>--
>>Larry Varney
>>Cold Spring, KY
>>http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
>>
>
>
> Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.
>
> My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current
> day Judeo-Christian shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion,
> peace, interfaith tolerance, women's rights, etc. What rationalizations
> does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind (whatever the
> author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these
> matters?
>
> skip
>
>

See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs
*and deeds*"? It's as much a mistake to say that the actions of a few
reflect the beliefs of the many.
Such as: is it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform
abortions should be killed? How about that demons inhabit the bodies of
people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out of them?
Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be
that the actual writings and "offical" rules of that group do not
sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all Christians are
guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that
all Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you?
Finally, it's not a matter of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with
Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already are! Check out the
writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and
disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for
instance, are representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews,
Muslims, Republicans, etc.

--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Hashim El Amin]

> Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from
> the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images
> of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
> link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no
> awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity,
> compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that
> should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."
>
> Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing
> these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>
> Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion,
> interfaith tolerance, and women's rights.
>
> I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work
> and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity.
> For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death
> sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
>
> Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented.
> I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
> vs. their beliefs in these matters.
>
> We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
>
> skip

The "common principles that bind Muslims, Christians and Jews
together" does not mean that Muslims are waging some kind of PR war
for unity. Rather, it refers to the fact that Muslims value these
principles.

As for the Taliban in Afghanistan, let us not forget that they
overthrew an already Muslim government to institute their own twisted
interpretation of things. It's not difficult to find Muslims all over
the world who oppose the Taliban and even the extremist doctrines
practiced in countries like Saudi Arabia.

Even in their own countries, these ideas are not popular. Most Saudis
do not agree with the laws that exist mainly to keep the Royals in
power. Protests regularly occur in countries like Turkey, Iran and
Jordan. And don't forget that the Taliban had to fight in a Civil War
for their very existence from the time they were in power until they
fell.

I suppose you also believe that women are less equal in Islam. This
could not be further from the truth. Even in such countries as Iran
and Saudi Arabia, women attend college and have careers. Women also
receive equal pay for equal work, something that is not acheived even
in America. A Muslim woman is the president of Indonesia. A Muslim
woman was president of Pakistan. Muslim women hold key government
positions in governments all over the world. The Qu'ran guaruntees
women the right to divorce and ensures them specific enheiritance
rights. But you think just because someone covers their hair (which
is usually choice, not law) they are oppressed?

And I'm sick of people saying Muslims are intolerant. There are an
estimated 20m Muslims in the U.S. When was the last time you saw a TV
commercial or a billboard encouraging you to convert to Islam? Where
have you seen a statue of Muhammad? When was the last time a Muslim
came to your door to convert you? When did you hear you'll go to hell
if you don't become a Muslim?

Christians do these things all the time, yet they're so full of love
and compassion and tolerance?? Give me a break and stop believing
everything you hear on the news. Things are newsworthy by definition
for being out of the ordinary.

Too bad many of us can't grasp this concept.

[Hashim El Amin]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
>
> [...]
>
> > I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> > Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> > any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> > to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> > But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> > might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> > Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
>
>
> From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr.
> Varney. All is not sweetness and light in the Muslim World. Other
> books have been written which clearly show this. There was a Muslim
> author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the
> Muslim religion and had some very interesting things to say about it.
> He was totally disillusioned with the religion and pointed out many of
> its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or
> the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open
> your eyes. I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam
> that wants to make the case that it is a religion of peace and
> freedom.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Give me the name of the book and I'll gladly read it. I don't find it
very helpful to censor myself from opposing views and ideas.
Oftentimes I've discovered my preconcieved notions are wrong. Have
you ever been wrong Mr Dolan?

Does it make life easier for you to blame everything wrong in the
world on Muslims?

Believe it or not, there are people just like you in the "Muslim
World." They watch TV and read the papers and believe every word
that's in them about how evil America and the West is. All Americans
are war-mongerers who think they own the world and dance like Britney
Spears on MTV in their free time.

Of course these ideas are silly, just like the silly ideas you have in
your head about Islam. But they still incite hatred so I guess they
meet their purposes. Just know that in the end, you're just another
sucker - not the genius you think you are.

[Lawrence Turner]

> > Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
> > anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
> > not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
> > is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
> > psychological assistance?
> >
> > Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
> > any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
> > kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
> > you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.
>
> What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many
> lies. Lies that are in defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in
> defence of someone who has committed identity theft. If you are trolling
> for pity, you have it.
>
> Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
> upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
> Oscar Wilde

Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so
many questions, that by now you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left.
For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone owns a Bigha, it
could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

>>>Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
>>>anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
>>>not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
>>>is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
>>>psychological assistance?
>>>
>>>Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
>>>any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
>>>kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
>>>you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.
>>
>>What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many
>>lies. Lies that are in defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in
>>defence of someone who has committed identity theft. If you are trolling
>>for pity, you have it.
>>
>>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
>>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
>>upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
>> Oscar Wilde
>
>
> Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so
> many questions, that by now you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left.
> For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone owns a Bigha, it
> could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

LIE:
11/18/03 11:46 PM
Lawrence Turner wrote:
> Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.

RESPONSE:
11/19/03 11:48 AM
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
> piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
> bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
> Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
> for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
> great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
> we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
> price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
> info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
> much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
> price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.

LIE:
11/19/03 5:47 PM
Lawrence Turner wrote:
> Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
> the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
> now would it?
> Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
> how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?
>
> As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
> he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
> not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
> specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.
>
> It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
> circles.

RESPONSE:
11/19/03 6:18 PM
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend
> that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
> class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
> expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
> but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and
> boil down to he just likes it better.
>
> There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a
> bicycle he himself does not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a
> free review model?
>
> Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile.
> Only the few reviewers like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and
> accept no advertising can be judged impartial and honest.

LIE:
11/19/03 11:10 PM
Lawrence Turner wrote:
> Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
> nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
> technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
> hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
> somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
> a Bigha.
>
> What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
> their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
> are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
> give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>
> Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
> attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
> he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

RESPONSE:
11/20/03 9:44 AM
Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
> continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
> buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
> it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
> several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
> little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
> Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
> details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
> continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
> this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?

I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of
distinguishing his fantasies from reality.

By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to
have bought a Bigha (other then a poor attempt at deception by another
nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and fraud by posting
under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with
the static address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As
this demonstrates he is a liar and considering the very vague
explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very
questionable whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less
purchased one.

Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1847
: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
defective or lost contact with reality

© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

[Lawrence Turner]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
>
> >>>Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
> >>>anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
> >>>not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
> >>>is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
> >>>psychological assistance?
> >>>
> >>>Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
> >>>any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
> >>>kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
> >>>you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.
> >>
> >>What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many
> >>lies. Lies that are in defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in
> >>defence of someone who has committed identity theft. If you are trolling
> >>for pity, you have it.
> >>
> >>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> >>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>
> >>"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
> >>upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
> >> Oscar Wilde
> >
> >
> > Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so
> > many questions, that by now you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left.
> > For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone owns a Bigha, it
> > could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.
>
> LIE:
> 11/18/03 11:46 PM
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
> > Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
> > it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
> > somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
>
> RESPONSE:
> 11/19/03 11:48 AM
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> > You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
> > piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
> > bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
> > Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
> > for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
> > great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
> > we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
> > price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
> > info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
> > much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
> > price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
>
> LIE:
> 11/19/03 5:47 PM
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
> > the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
> > now would it?
> > Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
> > how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?
> >
> > As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
> > he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
> > not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
> > specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.
> >
> > It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
> > circles.
>
> RESPONSE:
> 11/19/03 6:18 PM
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> > Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend
> > that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
> > class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
> > expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
> > but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and
> > boil down to he just likes it better.
> >
> > There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a
> > bicycle he himself does not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a
> > free review model?
> >
> > Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile.
> > Only the few reviewers like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and
> > accept no advertising can be judged impartial and honest.
>
> LIE:
> 11/19/03 11:10 PM
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
> > nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
> > technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
> > hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
> > somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
> > a Bigha.
> >
> > What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
> > their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
> > are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
> > give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
> >
> > Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
> > attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
> > he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>
> RESPONSE:
> 11/20/03 9:44 AM
> Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
> > Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
> > continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
> > buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
> > it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
> > several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
> > little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
> > Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
> > details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
> > continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
> > this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>
> I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of
> distinguishing his fantasies from reality.
>
> By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to
> have bought a Bigha (other then a poor attempt at deception by another
> nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and fraud by posting
> under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with
> the static address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As
> this demonstrates he is a liar and considering the very vague
> explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very
> questionable whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less
> purchased one.
>
> Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> Etymology: New Latin
> Date: 1847
> : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> defective or lost contact with reality
>
> © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.

I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
compose your response.

Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

[Edward Dolan]

(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...

> > Larry Varney > wrote in message >...
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any
> > > Muslims. In this part of the country, we're always on the tail end of
> > > any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us because the last bunches
> > > to come through were the Irish and the Germans!
> > > But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it
> > > might be interesting: "Silent No More - Confronting America's False
> > > Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
> >
> >
> > From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr.
> > Varney. All is not sweetness and light in the Muslim World. Other
> > books have been written which clearly show this. There was a Muslim
> > author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the
> > Muslim religion and had some very interesting things to say about it.
> > He was totally disillusioned with the religion and pointed out many of
> > its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or
> > the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open
> > your eyes. I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam
> > that wants to make the case that it is a religion of peace and
> > freedom.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> Give me the name of the book and I'll gladly read it. I don't find it
> very helpful to censor myself from opposing views and ideas.
> Oftentimes I've discovered my preconcieved notions are wrong. Have
> you ever been wrong Mr Dolan?

The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a
book is to choose which book to read among the many thousands that are
available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first book about
Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does
not want to even read a book review and find out what others who are
many times smarter than him think about it. That is the ultimate
ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.

> Does it make life easier for you to blame everything wrong in the
> world on Muslims?

I am only blaming on the Muslims what they have themselves taken
credit for, although morons like Mr. Sherman are not sure who is doing
what to whom.

> Believe it or not, there are people just like you in the "Muslim
> World." They watch TV and read the papers and believe every word
> that's in them about how evil America and the West is. All Americans
> are war-mongerers who think they own the world and dance like Britney
> Spears on MTV in their free time.

There is no free press in the Muslim world that I know about. Muslims
are steeped in ignorance, prejudice and superstition. They think what
ever their governments (mostly thug governments) tell them to think,
and then they go out into the streets and have their miserable
protests and demonstrations against the West - as if we are somehow
responsible for all their miseries. That is your world, not mine.
Maybe you would like to return to it, but we in the West think it is
all an abomination!

> Of course these ideas are silly, just like the silly ideas you have in
> your head about Islam. But they still incite hatred so I guess they
> meet their purposes. Just know that in the end, you're just another
> sucker - not the genius you think you are.

The only thing that is citing hatred in the West for Islam are all
these terrorist attacks emanating from the Muslims. Maybe you would
like to address that instead of bleating about my so called
"silliness". Prior to these attacks, I never had any thought in my
head for Islam except one of generalized contempt for a foolish and
ridiculous religion that is only worthy of simple minded people. It is
a simple religion for simple people. But I am all in favor of any
religion if it installs some morality in the believer, but the
morality of Muslims apparently does not extend to non-Muslims.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription
>>>>>anti-psychotic drugs? You continually recommend products that you've
>>>>>not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha comments, that
>>>>>is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
>>>>>psychological assistance?
>>>>>
>>>>>Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address
>>>>>any of the many issues I've covered in the previous posts. It won't
>>>>>kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can happen is
>>>>>you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.
>>>>
>>>>What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many
>>>>lies. Lies that are in defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in
>>>>defence of someone who has committed identity theft. If you are trolling
>>>>for pity, you have it.
>>>>
>>>>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
>>>>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>>"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called
>>>>upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason."
>>>> Oscar Wilde
>>>
>>>
>>>Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so
>>>many questions, that by now you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left.
>>> For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone owns a Bigha, it
>>>could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.
>>
>>LIE:
>>11/18/03 11:46 PM
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>> > Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that
>> > Bigha is a piece of crap and it gets positive reviews. Then you say
>> > it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy it, and
>> > somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.
>>
>>RESPONSE:
>>11/19/03 11:48 AM
>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>> > You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a
>> > piece of crap", in fact I have several times said it looked like a good
>> > bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range of comparative bikes.
>> > Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha
>> > for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was
>> > great for the price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception)
>> > we have heard from one single person who has said they have paid full
>> > price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any
>> > info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a
>> > much cheaper price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative
>> > price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.
>>
>>LIE:
>>11/19/03 5:47 PM
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>> > Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase
>> > the product. A review by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective,
>> > now would it?
>> > Why don't you write to your favorite magazine or TV show and ask them
>> > how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?
>> >
>> > As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that
>> > he likes justification enough? He said he's tried other bents and did
>> > not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really wanted more
>> > specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.
>> >
>> > It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of
>> > circles.
>>
>>RESPONSE:
>>11/19/03 6:18 PM
>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>> > Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend
>> > that much when there are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same
>> > class? In what way is this bike superior to similar but much less
>> > expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
>> > but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and
>> > boil down to he just likes it better.
>> >
>> > There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a
>> > bicycle he himself does not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a
>> > free review model?
>> >
>> > Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile.
>> > Only the few reviewers like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and
>> > accept no advertising can be judged impartial and honest.
>>
>>LIE:
>>11/19/03 11:10 PM
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>> > Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite
>> > nicely. If anything was vague, it was your question. If you wanted
>> > technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you gave no
>> > hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because
>> > somebody beat you at your own game by saying they paid full price for
>> > a Bigha.
>> >
>> > What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend
>> > their purchases just to avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these
>> > are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner steps up to
>> > give his opinion and you deem it worthless.
>> >
>> > Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to
>> > attack a bike he supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is
>> > he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?
>>
>>RESPONSE:
>>11/20/03 9:44 AM
>>Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
>> > Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to
>> > continually lie in support of a bicycle that they themselves would never
>> > buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything can determine if
>> > it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
>> > several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have
>> > little value. The one solitary person who has said they had bought a
>> > Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any objective
>> > details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha,
>> > continues to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for
>> > this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he just another psycho?
>>
>>I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of
>>distinguishing his fantasies from reality.
>>
>>By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to
>>have bought a Bigha (other then a poor attempt at deception by another
>>nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and fraud by posting
>>under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with
>>the static address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As
>>this demonstrates he is a liar and considering the very vague
>>explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very
>>questionable whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less
>>purchased one.
>>
>>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
>>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>Function: noun
>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>Etymology: New Latin
>>Date: 1847
>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>defective or lost contact with reality
>>
>>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>
>
> My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
> issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
> acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
> see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
> your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
>
> I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
> need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
> clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
> sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
> compose your response.
>
> Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has committed
identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability
to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1847
: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
defective or lost contact with reality

© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> skip wrote:
> > Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.
> >
> > My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current
> > day Judeo-Christian shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion,
> > peace, interfaith tolerance, women's rights, etc. What rationalizations
> > does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind (whatever the
> > author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these
> > matters?
> >
> > skip
> >
> >
>
> See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs
> *and deeds*"? It's as much a mistake to say that the actions of a few
> reflect the beliefs of the many.
> Such as: is it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform
> abortions should be killed? How about that demons inhabit the bodies of
> people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out of them?
> Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be
> that the actual writings and "offical" rules of that group do not
> sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all Christians are
> guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that
> all Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you?
> Finally, it's not a matter of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with
> Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already are! Check out the
> writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and
> disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for
> instance, are representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews,
> Muslims, Republicans, etc.

I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the
Muslims. He knows as little about them as I do. I would be interested
in hearing what some Muslim has to say in defense of the Muslim
terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of
their beliefs and practices which we in the West find repugnant and
disgusting, not to say horrible (skip has already cited a few of those
practices).

I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but
rather it is a religion of perpetual war against the "infidel". It has
no toleration for other religious beliefs and will always persecute
those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so
safely. The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless
examples. The Muslims currently living in the West are being
Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
manifesting itself in the West.

And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot
justify to any Westerner. But let them try. I am listening.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Ian]

Edward Dolan scribed with passion and wit:

>
> I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the
> Muslims. He knows as little about them as I do. I would be interested
> in hearing what some Muslim has to say in defense of the Muslim
> terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of
> their beliefs and practices which we in the West find repugnant and
> disgusting, not to say horrible (skip has already cited a few of those
> practices).

There is no defence against terrorism, and this goes for U.S. policy as
well.

>
> I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but
> rather it is a religion of perpetual war against the "infidel". It has
> no toleration for other religious beliefs and will always persecute
> those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so
> safely. The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless
> examples. The Muslims currently living in the West are being
> Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
> manifesting itself in the West.
"Thou shalt not kill" is in the Quran, when I was educated as a child in the
Mosque we were told always to respect the religious tenets of other faiths,
because it always costs a person something to be faithful to a creed and
that sacrifice shows character.
To mock the wishy washy, Christian on Sunday, hedonist in the week brigade
is something anyone can take part in though, hypocrisy is always fair game.
>
> And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot
> justify to any Westerner. But let them try. I am listening.

Women are different but equal, you are blinded by extremists that you insist
are representative of true Islam whilst admitting you know little or nothing
of the faith.


--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a
> book is to choose which book to read among the many thousands that are
> available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first book about
> Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does
> not want to even read a book review and find out what others who are
> many times smarter than him think about it. That is the ultimate
> ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.
>

ROTFL! Dolan, I never said anything about not wanting to read a book
review to see what others think about a book - what I've been saying,
all along, is that I will not let others do my thinking for me - if I
have the chance to read the book myself, I will do so, and not let
someone else determine my opinion for me.
There are some things that we either cannot check out for ourselves,
or are extremely difficult to do. As in, I will have to take the words
of others as to how it feels to walk on the moon.
But I CAN read a book, and I will. Why won't you?
--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Eduardo L P Jr]

"Edward Dolan" > escreveu na mensagem
om...
...............
>
> I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but
> rather it is a religion of perpetual war against the "infidel". It has
> no toleration for other religious beliefs and will always persecute
> those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so
> safely. The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless
> examples. The Muslims currently living in the West are being
> Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
> manifesting itself in the West.
.............

You've described the Xiita muslims (the minority), not the Sunita muslims
(the majority)... Muslim religion is a religion of peace. The principle of
Jihad, isn't the war against the infidels... Jihad is a fight against
infidelity. Not all the muslim people are terrorist.

Before you blow me in bits, I'm not muslim, I'm roman catholic, but I have
several muslim friends, jew friends and protestant friends. I respect their
religions, because I like when they respect mine...

God Bless You!

[]'s Eduardo
--


Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 25/11/2003

[Edward Dolan]

Ian > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan scribed with passion and wit:
>
> >
> > I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the
> > Muslims. He knows as little about them as I do. I would be interested
> > in hearing what some Muslim has to say in defense of the Muslim
> > terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of
> > their beliefs and practices which we in the West find repugnant and
> > disgusting, not to say horrible (skip has already cited a few of those
> > practices).
>
> There is no defence against terrorism, and this goes for U.S. policy as
> well.

U.S. policy at home and abroad is never based on terrorism. To think
otherwise is just too ignorant for words.

> > I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but
> > rather it is a religion of perpetual war against the "infidel". It has
> > no toleration for other religious beliefs and will always persecute
> > those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so
> > safely. The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless
> > examples. The Muslims currently living in the West are being
> > Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
> > manifesting itself in the West.
>
> "Thou shalt not kill" is in the Quran, when I was educated as a child in the
> Mosque we were told always to respect the religious tenets of other faiths,
> because it always costs a person something to be faithful to a creed and
> that sacrifice shows character.
> To mock the wishy washy, Christian on Sunday, hedonist in the week brigade
> is something anyone can take part in though, hypocrisy is always fair game.

Frankly, I am not interested in what is in the Koran (this is the
spelling I grew up with - is it not considered to be correct anymore I
wonder?). I am far more interested in what is being preached in the
mosques and what is being taught in the schools. If you tell me that
you were taught to be tolerant of other faiths I will believe you, but
I fear that is not what is going on today in the Middle East. Are
Moslems equally tolerant of those professing no faith at all I wonder,
in other words, of atheists?

> > And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot
> > justify to any Westerner. But let them try. I am listening.
>
> Women are different but equal, you are blinded by extremists that you insist
> are representative of true Islam whilst admitting you know little or nothing
> of the faith.

I too think women are very different than men in many and important
ways but they should have equal rights and equal opportunities under
the law and in practice. This revolution occurred many generations ago
in the West but I have not yet seen the equivalent revolution in the
Moslem World. Until I do I will not hold the Muslim religion in any
esteem.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

> >
> > My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
> > issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
> > acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
> > see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
> > your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
> >
> > I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
> > need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
> > clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
> > sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
> > compose your response.
> >
> > Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!
>
> The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
> continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
> you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has committed
> identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability
> to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> Etymology: New Latin
> Date: 1847
> : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> defective or lost contact with reality
>
> © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's
kicked in, then read and respond my posts. Obviously whatever content
is in these posts goes right over your head and you need help.

Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a
person. I've asked you many questions and exposed your lies and
insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing the
subject.

Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.

1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
a) People who get the bike for free
b) People who are full price customers

We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please
note that "whoever agrees with LLL on the merits of the product" is
NOT an acceptable answer.

This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve
answers, and most people habitually answer questions without having to
make serious psychological progress. I placed this question quite
obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a
question could be simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world,
though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way to avoid it.

I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the
non-babbling version.

[skip]

"Larry Varney" > wrote in message
...
> See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs
> *and deeds*"? It's as much a mistake to say that the actions of a few
> reflect the beliefs of the many.
> Such as: is it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform
> abortions should be killed? How about that demons inhabit the bodies of
> people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out of
them?
> Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be
> that the actual writings and "offical" rules of that group do not
> sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all Christians are
> guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that
> all Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you?
> Finally, it's not a matter of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with
> Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already are! Check out the
> writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and
> disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for
> instance, are representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews,
> Muslims, Republicans, etc.
>

Mr. Varney you are beginning to parse words and changing the subject to a
lunatic who shot a doctor at a Planned Parenthood Clinic and demon
possession.

I took a look at the human rights violations documented by Amnesty
International and the UN concerning the Islamic Republic of Iran. Looking at
the record here are my observations in the areas of their Compassion, Peace,
Inter-Faith, and Women's Rights:

Compassion - Bloodthirsty is more like it. Political dissenters, criminals,
homosexuals, transgender people, of other religions etc. are subjected to
death sentences, executions, arrests, and detention according to the U.N.
Recently four men were stoned to death for unspecified reasons.

Peace - Kept internally by brutal savage force.

Interfaith Tolerance - Serious problems here. The UN has recorded
egregious violations against the Baha'i community of Iran, that country's
second largest religious minority. The UN calls it "an unabated pattern of
persecution". Same goes for Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and most
especially those who denounce religion or are atheist.

Women's Rights - Basically non-existent. I think each Islamic man can own
up to five of them. Stoning is still practiced in cases of adultery. Most
recently in Shiraz seven women were given 50 lashes each for allegedly
showing disrespect during the month of Ramadan.

If there is anything that should be wiped off the face of the earth I would
put Islamic Republics toward the top of the list. Thankfully the Islamic
regime in Afghanistan is back in their caves where they belong, at least for
the time being.

skip

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

>>>My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
>>>issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
>>>acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
>>>see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
>>>your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
>>>
>>>I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
>>>need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
>>>clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
>>>sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
>>>compose your response.
>>>
>>>Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!
>>
>>The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
>>continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
>>you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has committed
>>identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability
>>to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>Function: noun
>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>Etymology: New Latin
>>Date: 1847
>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>defective or lost contact with reality
>>
>>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>
>
> Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's
> kicked in, then read and respond my posts. Obviously whatever content
> is in these posts goes right over your head and you need help.
>
> Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a
> person. I've asked you many questions and exposed your lies and
> insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing the
> subject.

I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha.
Every time you try to change it, I have to bring in back. You haven't
bought one nor are you going to buy one so just what do you have to say
on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced
bike and a person known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to
have bought one.

>
> Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.
>
> 1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
> a) People who get the bike for free
> b) People who are full price customers

Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you
just responded to, but you edited that part out. Now I wonder way you
choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or just part of your
selective perception of reality?

>
> We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please
> note that "whoever agrees with LLL on the merits of the product" is
> NOT an acceptable answer.
>
> This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve
> answers, and most people habitually answer questions without having to
> make serious psychological progress. I placed this question quite
> obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a
> question could be simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world,
> though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way to avoid it.
>
> I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the
> non-babbling version.

It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question,
you still look like a delusional fool.

Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Hashim El Amin]

"skip" > wrote in message >...
> "Larry Varney" > wrote in message
> ...
> > See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs
> > *and deeds*"? It's as much a mistake to say that the actions of a few
> > reflect the beliefs of the many.
> > Such as: is it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform
> > abortions should be killed? How about that demons inhabit the bodies of
> > people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out of
> them?
> > Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be
> > that the actual writings and "offical" rules of that group do not
> > sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all Christians are
> > guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that
> > all Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you?
> > Finally, it's not a matter of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with
> > Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already are! Check out the
> > writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and
> > disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for
> > instance, are representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews,
> > Muslims, Republicans, etc.
> >
>
> Mr. Varney you are beginning to parse words and changing the subject to a
> lunatic who shot a doctor at a Planned Parenthood Clinic and demon
> possession.
>
> I took a look at the human rights violations documented by Amnesty
> International and the UN concerning the Islamic Republic of Iran. Looking at
> the record here are my observations in the areas of their Compassion, Peace,
> Inter-Faith, and Women's Rights:
>
> Compassion - Bloodthirsty is more like it. Political dissenters, criminals,
> homosexuals, transgender people, of other religions etc. are subjected to
> death sentences, executions, arrests, and detention according to the U.N.
> Recently four men were stoned to death for unspecified reasons.
>
> Peace - Kept internally by brutal savage force.
>
> Interfaith Tolerance - Serious problems here. The UN has recorded
> egregious violations against the Baha'i community of Iran, that country's
> second largest religious minority. The UN calls it "an unabated pattern of
> persecution". Same goes for Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and most
> especially those who denounce religion or are atheist.
>
> Women's Rights - Basically non-existent. I think each Islamic man can own
> up to five of them. Stoning is still practiced in cases of adultery. Most
> recently in Shiraz seven women were given 50 lashes each for allegedly
> showing disrespect during the month of Ramadan.
>
> If there is anything that should be wiped off the face of the earth I would
> put Islamic Republics toward the top of the list. Thankfully the Islamic
> regime in Afghanistan is back in their caves where they belong, at least for
> the time being.
>
> skip

Skip, there is no limit to the number of women muslim men can own. I
myself have 12 (joking of course)! What will you think of next?

I'm glad you enjoy reading reports by the UN and Amnesty
International. I'm sure you find these reports to be very
informative, except when they report on Israel, in which case they are
clearly biased, correct?

In all honesty, many countries practice what is called "Sharia" or
Islamic law, but their interpretations are ridiculous. True Islamic
law makes serious convictions almost impossible. In the case of the
adultering woman, at least 3 eyewitnesses must testify against her.
So unless she has sex in the street or on video, it'd be hard to
prove. Capital punishment can be sentenced for many crimes, but the
Qu'ran has many lines similar to the Bible's "let he without sin cast
the first stone."

I think the problem is "Holy-Men" such as Osama and the leaders in
these countries truly regard themselves as without sin. They use
their versions of Islamic law to keep themselves in power, and hold
their adversaries down.

Again, if muslims are so intolerant, why do we not go door to door
trying to convert people? When have you seen an ad encouraging you to
check out Islam? If God wanted to unite man under one nation and one
religion he would. Diversity and how we deal with one another is a
part of life's test.

This is why as a leader, Muhammad did not force all of his followers
to convert to Islam. Non-muslim residents paid a lower tax rate and
did not have to serve in the military even though they enjoyed equal
rights under the law.

Christians tell me I will go to hell because I do not share their
beliefs. I do not believe you will go to hell for being a non-muslim.
I will be judged according to Islam and you will be judged according
to your own standards - even if you are an atheist.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Islam. It's sad that the
actions of the few zealots will control the perception you have of the
masses. But if you're interested in learning the truth I suggest you
meet muslims in your area or read the Qu'ran for yourself (and while
you're at it, please find me anything in there about 72 virgins for
each martyr - it's just a myth). If you want to continue following
your own foolish and bigoted views, be my guest as well. I for one
would be happy to drop this subject.

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a
> > book is to choose which book to read among the many thousands that are
> > available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first book about
> > Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does
> > not want to even read a book review and find out what others who are
> > many times smarter than him think about it. That is the ultimate
> > ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.
> >
>
> ROTFL! Dolan, I never said anything about not wanting to read a book
> review to see what others think about a book - what I've been saying,
> all along, is that I will not let others do my thinking for me - if I
> have the chance to read the book myself, I will do so, and not let
> someone else determine my opinion for me.
> There are some things that we either cannot check out for ourselves,
> or are extremely difficult to do. As in, I will have to take the words
> of others as to how it feels to walk on the moon.
> But I CAN read a book, and I will. Why won't you?


I am glad that we both finally can agree about something, i.e., that
book reviews can be very useful in helping us to decide whether we
want to read a book or not. The only thing I have against the book you
are contemplating reading is that bit in the title about America's
"false images" of Islam. Most Americans know next to nothing about
Islam and they don't want to know anything about it, except how it may
impact their lives via the Muslim terrorist threat consisting of
random acts of murder and mayhem. Frankly, right at this moment in
time I am not anxious to "understand" Islam. The important thing is to
condemn it for what it is doing to this country and indeed to the
whole world.

We are all waiting for you to read that book and report back to us on
any increase of understanding about the Muslim religion you may gain
from it, and in particular what those "false images" of Muslims that
we here in America are suppose to have about it.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Eduardo L P Jr" > wrote in message >...

> "Edward Dolan" > escreveu na mensagem
> om...
> ..............
> >
> > I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but
> > rather it is a religion of perpetual war against the "infidel". It has
> > no toleration for other religious beliefs and will always persecute
> > those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so
> > safely. The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless
> > examples. The Muslims currently living in the West are being
> > Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
> > manifesting itself in the West.
> ............
>
> You've described the Xiita muslims (the minority), not the Sunita muslims
> (the majority)... Muslim religion is a religion of peace. The principle of
> Jihad, isn't the war against the infidels... Jihad is a fight against
> infidelity. Not all the muslim people are terrorist.

> Before you blow me in bits, I'm not muslim, I'm roman catholic, but I have
> several muslim friends, jew friends and protestant friends. I respect their
> religions, because I like when they respect mine...

The Holy Mother Church (Mosque) of Islam is Saudi Arabia. That is
where Mecca and Medina are located and the Saudi version of Islam is
the pure distilled essence of the religion. I recognize there are many
differences among the various sects (branches) of Islam, but what
unites them all is much more significant than what separates them. Ask
your Mulsim friends how they feel about atheists to get a better gauge
of their tolerance quotient.

By the way, I find the concept of jihad (holy war) repugnant and that
right there is a very big element of their intolerance.

Main Entry: ji·had
Pronunciation: ji-'häd, chiefly British -'had
Function: noun
Etymology: Arabic jihAd
Date: 1869
1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty
2 : a crusade for a principle or belief

Merriam-Webster

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Lawrence Turner]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message .net>...
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
>
> >>>My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
> >>>issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
> >>>acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
> >>>see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
> >>>your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
> >>>
> >>>I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
> >>>need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
> >>>clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
> >>>sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
> >>>compose your response.
> >>>
> >>>Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!
> >>
> >>The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
> >>continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
> >>you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has committed
> >>identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability
> >>to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.
> >>
> >>Lorenzo L. Love
> >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >>
> >>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> >>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> >>Function: noun
> >>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> >>Etymology: New Latin
> >>Date: 1847
> >>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> >>defective or lost contact with reality
> >>
> >>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
> >
> >
> > Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's
> > kicked in, then read and respond my posts. Obviously whatever content
> > is in these posts goes right over your head and you need help.
> >
> > Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a
> > person. I've asked you many questions and exposed your lies and
> > insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing the
> > subject.
>
> I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha.
> Every time you try to change it, I have to bring in back. You haven't
> bought one nor are you going to buy one so just what do you have to say
> on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced
> bike and a person known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to
> have bought one.
>
> >
> > Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.
> >
> > 1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
> > a) People who get the bike for free
> > b) People who are full price customers
>
> Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you
> just responded to, but you edited that part out. Now I wonder way you
> choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or just part of your
> selective perception of reality?
>
> >
> > We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please
> > note that "whoever agrees with LLL on the merits of the product" is
> > NOT an acceptable answer.
> >
> > This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve
> > answers, and most people habitually answer questions without having to
> > make serious psychological progress. I placed this question quite
> > obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a
> > question could be simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world,
> > though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way to avoid it.
> >
> > I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the
> > non-babbling version.
>
> It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question,
> you still look like a delusional fool.
>
> Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
> Charles Manson


Lauging out freeking loud!!!

OK, you are officially insane. I could not have posed the question
any clearer, and you still fail to provide an answer. What exactly is
your condition called? Are you alergic to answering questions? Do you
have a phobia of answering questions? What are the side-effects if you
actually do answer a question?

Show me one place in this thread where I defend either the bike or
another person. I've done neither. The only puzzle I try to solve is
why you insist on continuing with your Jihad against Bigha. You claim
people who have not, or will not buy a Bigha have no right to an
opinion on the bike. You also have not, and will not by the bike, yet
it is ok for you to have a very strong opinion. Why are you entitled
to form an opinion while no one else is? Are you God? Why is it
anyone who asks Lorenzo the Almighty a question is deemed insane?

Also, please show me where I've attacked you for asking your "has
anyone bought a Bigha" question. I believe that to be a fair question.
However, you also recommended psychological counseling and
medication. Using your logic, you must have experience in these areas,
otherwise you would not be entitled to an opinion on them, much less
provide an recommendation.

Can you please answer my questions in a straight-forward manner? If
you actually answer a question and do not change the subject, we will
all have something to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.

Just to recap, here are some questions you can answer:

1) What's the logic behind you Jihad against Bigha?
2) Why are you entitled to an opinion on Bigha while nobody else is?
3) Who provides the best reviews: paying customers or non-paying
reviewers?
4) Have you received counseling and have you taken medication for a
mental condition?
5) If no on 4, how do you justify recommending these things without
trying them yourself? Doesn't this counter your logic on Bigha?
6) Why do you never ever answer any questions?

All are easy questions, the rest of the newsgroup will be elated if
you manage to answer even one.

[William Higley, Sr.]

Question: If a bear craps in the woods and no one is around, does it still
stink?

Answer: Who cares.

Would you pay $3000 to find out?

At this point in time "Who Cares"?

Logic is lost on our dear L.L.L. Rest assured that what any of us write here
will probably have a very negligible effect on the sales of BiGHA. If it
goes down in flames it will not be because of the efforts of Mr. Love. If
the sales go platinum, I doubt that will be a repudiation of his concerns.

Let him pretend he has convinced us all with his superior logic. That may
get him to quit whining.

William Higley, Sr. (Have I crapped in the woods? Are you willing to pay
$3000 to find out?)
Vision R-50
RANS Rocket

"Lawrence Turner" > wrote in message
m...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message
.net>...
> > Lawrence Turner wrote:
> >
> > >>>My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I
raised
> > >>>issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
> > >>>acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I
don't
> > >>>see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically,
in
> > >>>your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a
liar.
> > >>>
> > >>>I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
> > >>>need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and
use
> > >>>clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in
the
> > >>>sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
> > >>>compose your response.
> > >>>
> > >>>Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!
> > >>
> > >>The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
> > >>continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
> > >>you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has
committed
> > >>identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your
inability
> > >>to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.
> > >>
> > >>Lorenzo L. Love
> > >>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> > >>
> > >>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> > >>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> > >>Function: noun
> > >>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> > >>Etymology: New Latin
> > >>Date: 1847
> > >>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> > >>defective or lost contact with reality
> > >>
> > >>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
> > >
> > >
> > > Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's
> > > kicked in, then read and respond my posts. Obviously whatever content
> > > is in these posts goes right over your head and you need help.
> > >
> > > Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a
> > > person. I've asked you many questions and exposed your lies and
> > > insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing the
> > > subject.
> >
> > I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha.
> > Every time you try to change it, I have to bring in back. You haven't
> > bought one nor are you going to buy one so just what do you have to say
> > on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced
> > bike and a person known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to
> > have bought one.
> >
> > >
> > > Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.
> > >
> > > 1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
> > > a) People who get the bike for free
> > > b) People who are full price customers
> >
> > Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you
> > just responded to, but you edited that part out. Now I wonder way you
> > choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or just part of your
> > selective perception of reality?
> >
> > >
> > > We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please
> > > note that "whoever agrees with LLL on the merits of the product" is
> > > NOT an acceptable answer.
> > >
> > > This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve
> > > answers, and most people habitually answer questions without having to
> > > make serious psychological progress. I placed this question quite
> > > obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a
> > > question could be simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world,
> > > though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way to avoid it.
> > >
> > > I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the
> > > non-babbling version.
> >
> > It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question,
> > you still look like a delusional fool.
> >
> > Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> > actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
> >
> > Lorenzo L. Love
> > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
> >
> > “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s
crazy.”
> > Charles Manson
>
>
> Lauging out freeking loud!!!
>
> OK, you are officially insane. I could not have posed the question
> any clearer, and you still fail to provide an answer. What exactly is
> your condition called? Are you alergic to answering questions? Do you
> have a phobia of answering questions? What are the side-effects if you
> actually do answer a question?
>
> Show me one place in this thread where I defend either the bike or
> another person. I've done neither. The only puzzle I try to solve is
> why you insist on continuing with your Jihad against Bigha. You claim
> people who have not, or will not buy a Bigha have no right to an
> opinion on the bike. You also have not, and will not by the bike, yet
> it is ok for you to have a very strong opinion. Why are you entitled
> to form an opinion while no one else is? Are you God? Why is it
> anyone who asks Lorenzo the Almighty a question is deemed insane?
>
> Also, please show me where I've attacked you for asking your "has
> anyone bought a Bigha" question. I believe that to be a fair question.
> However, you also recommended psychological counseling and
> medication. Using your logic, you must have experience in these areas,
> otherwise you would not be entitled to an opinion on them, much less
> provide an recommendation.
>
> Can you please answer my questions in a straight-forward manner? If
> you actually answer a question and do not change the subject, we will
> all have something to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.
>
> Just to recap, here are some questions you can answer:
>
> 1) What's the logic behind you Jihad against Bigha?
> 2) Why are you entitled to an opinion on Bigha while nobody else is?
> 3) Who provides the best reviews: paying customers or non-paying
> reviewers?
> 4) Have you received counseling and have you taken medication for a
> mental condition?
> 5) If no on 4, how do you justify recommending these things without
> trying them yourself? Doesn't this counter your logic on Bigha?
> 6) Why do you never ever answer any questions?
>
> All are easy questions, the rest of the newsgroup will be elated if
> you manage to answer even one.

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> Here is our moronic Muslim again daring to compare Israel with Iran.
> He is as bad as that other idiot on this newsgroup, Mr. Sherman , who
> does this sort of thing all the time too. But Mr. Sherman always likes
> to leave the impression that what Israel is doing is much worse!...

<http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/>

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Tom Sherman]

"William Higley, Sr." wrote:
>
> Question: If a bear craps in the woods and no one is around, does it
> still stink?...

That would depend on several factors, the most important of which would
be the quality and nature of the bear's dietary intake in the recent
past.

"Stinking" is also highly subjective, as any knowledgeable observer of
the behavior of the domesticated variety of the Canis lupus can attest
to, as the hominid observer and said canine will generally have a great
variance of opinion on which emanations of odor are attractive.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message .net>...
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised
>>>>>issues that you've completely dodged and to this moment have not
>>>>>acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I don't
>>>>>see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
>>>>>your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
>>>>>
>>>>>I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I
>>>>>need you to really focus and try to speak English with me here and use
>>>>>clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't cut it in the
>>>>>sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
>>>>>compose your response.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!
>>>>
>>>>The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are
>>>>continuing to lie in support of a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that
>>>>you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has committed
>>>>identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability
>>>>to understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.
>>>>
>>>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>>>
>>>>Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
>>>>Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
>>>>Function: noun
>>>>Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
>>>>Etymology: New Latin
>>>>Date: 1847
>>>>: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
>>>>defective or lost contact with reality
>>>>
>>>>© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>>>
>>>
>>>Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's
>>>kicked in, then read and respond my posts. Obviously whatever content
>>>is in these posts goes right over your head and you need help.
>>>
>>>Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a
>>>person. I've asked you many questions and exposed your lies and
>>>insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing the
>>>subject.
>>
>>I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha.
>>Every time you try to change it, I have to bring in back. You haven't
>>bought one nor are you going to buy one so just what do you have to say
>>on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced
>>bike and a person known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to
>>have bought one.
>>
>>
>>>Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.
>>>
>>>1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
>>>a) People who get the bike for free
>>>b) People who are full price customers
>>
>>Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you
>>just responded to, but you edited that part out. Now I wonder way you
>>choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or just part of your
>>selective perception of reality?
>>
>>
>>>We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please
>>>note that "whoever agrees with LLL on the merits of the product" is
>>>NOT an acceptable answer.
>>>
>>>This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve
>>>answers, and most people habitually answer questions without having to
>>>make serious psychological progress. I placed this question quite
>>>obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a
>>>question could be simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world,
>>>though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way to avoid it.
>>>
>>>I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the
>>>non-babbling version.
>>
>>It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question,
>>you still look like a delusional fool.
>>
>>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
>>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
>> Charles Manson
>
>
>
> Lauging out freeking loud!!!
>
> OK, you are officially insane. I could not have posed the question
> any clearer, and you still fail to provide an answer. What exactly is
> your condition called? Are you alergic to answering questions? Do you
> have a phobia of answering questions? What are the side-effects if you
> actually do answer a question?
>
> Show me one place in this thread where I defend either the bike or
> another person. I've done neither. The only puzzle I try to solve is
> why you insist on continuing with your Jihad against Bigha. You claim
> people who have not, or will not buy a Bigha have no right to an
> opinion on the bike. You also have not, and will not by the bike, yet
> it is ok for you to have a very strong opinion. Why are you entitled
> to form an opinion while no one else is? Are you God? Why is it
> anyone who asks Lorenzo the Almighty a question is deemed insane?
>
> Also, please show me where I've attacked you for asking your "has
> anyone bought a Bigha" question. I believe that to be a fair question.
> However, you also recommended psychological counseling and
> medication. Using your logic, you must have experience in these areas,
> otherwise you would not be entitled to an opinion on them, much less
> provide an recommendation.
>
> Can you please answer my questions in a straight-forward manner? If
> you actually answer a question and do not change the subject, we will
> all have something to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.
>
> Just to recap, here are some questions you can answer:
>
> 1) What's the logic behind you Jihad against Bigha?
> 2) Why are you entitled to an opinion on Bigha while nobody else is?
> 3) Who provides the best reviews: paying customers or non-paying
> reviewers?
> 4) Have you received counseling and have you taken medication for a
> mental condition?
> 5) If no on 4, how do you justify recommending these things without
> trying them yourself? Doesn't this counter your logic on Bigha?
> 6) Why do you never ever answer any questions?
>
> All are easy questions, the rest of the newsgroup will be elated if
> you manage to answer even one.

Do you actually read any of the responses to your posts? No? I didn't
think so. I ask a very simple question, who has purchased a Bigha for
the full outrageous price of $3000.00, and you freak out over it. You
need serious help. If you don't have anything to say about the subject
(that's that line at the top that says "BiGHA Comments") stop trying to
change the subject.

Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not
succeed.”
Mark Twain

[Lorenzo L. Love]

William Higley, Sr. wrote:

> Question: If a bear craps in the woods and no one is around, does it still
> stink?
>
> Answer: Who cares.
>
> Would you pay $3000 to find out?
>
> At this point in time "Who Cares"?
>
> Logic is lost on our dear L.L.L. Rest assured that what any of us write here
> will probably have a very negligible effect on the sales of BiGHA. If it
> goes down in flames it will not be because of the efforts of Mr. Love. If
> the sales go platinum, I doubt that will be a repudiation of his concerns.
>
> Let him pretend he has convinced us all with his superior logic. That may
> get him to quit whining.
>
> William Higley, Sr. (Have I crapped in the woods? Are you willing to pay
> $3000 to find out?)
> Vision R-50
> RANS Rocket

Have you purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price? Will you? Do you
have anything at all to say about Bigha? If the answer to these
questions are no, when why are you posting under this subject?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
Charles Manson

[Eduardo L P Jr]

Main Entry: re·cum·bent
Pronunciation: -b&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: L recumbent-, recumbens, present participle of recumbere to lie
down, from re- + -cumbere to lie down; akin to Latin cubare to lie
Date: 1705
1 a : suggestive of repose : LEANING, RESTING b : lying down
2 : representing a person lying down <a recumbent statue>

"Edward Dolan" > escreveu na mensagem
om...
..................
> The Holy Mother Church (Mosque) of Islam is Saudi Arabia. That is
> where Mecca and Medina are located and the Saudi version of Islam is
> the pure distilled essence of the religion. I recognize there are many
> differences among the various sects (branches) of Islam, but what
> unites them all is much more significant than what separates them. Ask
> your Mulsim friends how they feel about atheists to get a better gauge
> of their tolerance quotient.
>
> By the way, I find the concept of jihad (holy war) repugnant and that
> right there is a very big element of their intolerance.
>
> Main Entry: ji·had
> Pronunciation: ji-'häd, chiefly British -'had
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Arabic jihAd
> Date: 1869
> 1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty
> 2 : a crusade for a principle or belief
>
> Merriam-Webster
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota


Mr. Dolan

Tolerance is a permanent exercise. My muslim friends are tolerant with my
other friends (mainly the agnostic ones...), because we exercise our mutual
tolerance. After a soccer game, we go to drink. The muslims (two
Palestinians and one Jordanian) respect us because we drink beer and they
don't try to convert us about this "demoniac beverage". And we respect them
because their religion. This is the secret of our friendship.

By the way... You've used a concept take out from Merriam-Webster - a
dictionary made by americans to americans, and I think this is not a good
source of knowledge... I don't think that M-W may give me a good concept of
Jihad. To take closer to our topics, I've took another concept from M-W...
Here we are:

Main Entry: re·cum·bent
Pronunciation: -b&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: L recumbent-, recumbens, present participle of recumbere to lie
down, from re- + -cumbere to lie down; akin to Latin cubare to lie
Date: 1705
1 a : suggestive of repose : LEANING, RESTING b : lying down
2 : representing a person lying down <a recumbent statue>

Based on this concept, I'll put my 'bent on my garden with a small golden
fish fountain lake because it's a statue, isnt' it?

All the best

Eduardo
--


Ypê Bike: http://www.ypebike.cjb.net/
Ypê Mono: http://www.ype.unicyclist.com/


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 25/11/2003

[Dave Larrington]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> No Christian or atheist is interested in reading
> the Koran for heaven's sake! Why would we want
> to read that when we have the Bible to read.

Why on earth would I want to read the bible? I'm no more interested in
reading it than I am in reading the Koran, the Book of Mormon or "Mein
Kampf".

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Lawrence Turner]

"Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
> William Higley, Sr. wrote:
>
> > Question: If a bear craps in the woods and no one is around, does it still
> > stink?
> >
> > Answer: Who cares.
> >
> > Would you pay $3000 to find out?
> >
> > At this point in time "Who Cares"?
> >
> > Logic is lost on our dear L.L.L. Rest assured that what any of us write here
> > will probably have a very negligible effect on the sales of BiGHA. If it
> > goes down in flames it will not be because of the efforts of Mr. Love. If
> > the sales go platinum, I doubt that will be a repudiation of his concerns.
> >
> > Let him pretend he has convinced us all with his superior logic. That may
> > get him to quit whining.
> >
> > William Higley, Sr. (Have I crapped in the woods? Are you willing to pay
> > $3000 to find out?)
> > Vision R-50
> > RANS Rocket
>
> Have you purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price? Will you? Do you
> have anything at all to say about Bigha? If the answer to these
> questions are no, when why are you posting under this subject?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
> Charles Manson

I've noticed that Lorenzo thinks he owns any conversation pertaining
to Bigha. If you don't condemn the bike and join his Jihad, he acts
as though you have no right to post on his thread and calls you
insane. Sure, you're allowed to call the bike Satan on Wheels, but if
think otherwise, or simply do not have an opinion on the bike, you
become his blood enemy.

I honestly can't figure out his obsession with Bigha. I'm beginning
to think he's a semi-functioning Autistic and something about Bigha
triggers unpleasant memories from his childhood.

You may have noticed some of my posts above where I ask him specific
questions. He's never actually responded to any of them, he only says
I'm crazy or I'm a liar. When I ask him to be more specific he says
I'm crazy or I'm a liar. I thought he was just being a troll at
first, but now I honestly think he doesn't know any better.

Either he's delusional or completely self-centered. And what's with
the quotes he's always adding on to his posts? Are they supposed to
make him look more intelligent? I have a hard time trusting people
who back up their points with quotes from Charles Manson.

I guess I was trying to have an argument with him, but I've already
won by default because I'm the only one who makes coherant points.

[Hashim El Amin]

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
> (Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...
>
> > "skip" > wrote in message >...
> [...]
>
> > > I took a look at the human rights violations documented by Amnesty
> > > International and the UN concerning the Islamic Republic of Iran. Looking at
> > > the record here are my observations in the areas of their Compassion, Peace,
> > > Inter-Faith, and Women's Rights:
> > >
> > > Compassion - Bloodthirsty is more like it. Political dissenters, criminals,
> > > homosexuals, transgender people, of other religions etc. are subjected to
> > > death sentences, executions, arrests, and detention according to the U.N.
> > > Recently four men were stoned to death for unspecified reasons.
> > >
> > > Peace - Kept internally by brutal savage force.
> > >
> > > Interfaith Tolerance - Serious problems here. The UN has recorded
> > > egregious violations against the Baha'i community of Iran, that country's
> > > second largest religious minority. The UN calls it "an unabated pattern of
> > > persecution". Same goes for Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and most
> > > especially those who denounce religion or are atheist.
> > >
> > > Women's Rights - Basically non-existent. I think each Islamic man can own
> > > up to five of them. Stoning is still practiced in cases of adultery. Most
> > > recently in Shiraz seven women were given 50 lashes each for allegedly
> > > showing disrespect during the month of Ramadan.
> > >
> > > If there is anything that should be wiped off the face of the earth I would
> > > put Islamic Republics toward the top of the list. Thankfully the Islamic
> > > regime in Afghanistan is back in their caves where they belong, at least for
> > > the time being.
> > >
> > > skip
> >
> > Skip, there is no limit to the number of women muslim men can own. I
> > myself have 12 (joking of course)! What will you think of next?
> >
> > I'm glad you enjoy reading reports by the UN and Amnesty
> > International. I'm sure you find these reports to be very
> > informative, except when they report on Israel, in which case they are
> > clearly biased, correct?
>
> Here is our moronic Muslim again daring to compare Israel with Iran.
> He is as bad as that other idiot on this newsgroup, Mr. Sherman , who
> does this sort of thing all the time too. But Mr. Sherman always likes
> to leave the impression that what Israel is doing is much worse! Like
> I have said before, if you are going to be an idiot, you might as well
> go all the way and be a complete idiot like Mr. Sherman.

I'm not comparing any two countries. I just find it interesting that
he would cite a UN report, when I'm almost certain if anyone cited a
UN report on Israel he would condemn it, and so would you. You can't
>
> > In all honesty, many countries practice what is called "Sharia" or
> > Islamic law, but their interpretations are ridiculous. True Islamic
> > law makes serious convictions almost impossible. In the case of the
> > adultering woman, at least 3 eyewitnesses must testify against her.
> > So unless she has sex in the street or on video, it'd be hard to
> > prove. Capital punishment can be sentenced for many crimes, but the
> > Qu'ran has many lines similar to the Bible's "let he without sin cast
> > the first stone."
>
> Here is the most pitiful excuse for the barbarities of Islam that I
> have ever read. You had best leave it to your clerics to explain it as
> you have just confirmed every bad impression any Westerner ever had
> about Islam.
>
> To compare the Bible to the Koran is another outrage. One is at the
> least a work of art and the other is nothing but insane ramblings
> about on the level of the Book of Mormon. Islam was a sect that never
> became any thing other than what it originally was - a sect. It is not
> a true universal religion at all. It was spread by force of arms and
> that is still the only way it can convert anyone.
>
> > I think the problem is "Holy-Men" such as Osama and the leaders in
> > these countries truly regard themselves as without sin. They use
> > their versions of Islamic law to keep themselves in power, and hold
> > their adversaries down.
>
> Islamic law (all versions of it) ought to be thrown into the dust bin
> of history where it belongs. That anyone in this day and age can be
> living according to such nonsense is beyond belief to those of us in
> the West. The various Islamic "republics" that we have seen so far
> (Afghanistan and Iran) are an abomination and totally go against human
> nature. They are as bad as communism ever was, maybe even worse since
> the ideology supporting them is even crazier.

Your last few comments are so stupid they deserve no comment. Sorry,
try harder next time.

> > Again, if muslims are so intolerant, why do we not go door to door
> > trying to convert people? When have you seen an ad encouraging you to
> > check out Islam? If God wanted to unite man under one nation and one
> > religion he would. Diversity and how we deal with one another is a
> > part of life's test.
>
> You are confusing tolerance with proselytizing. I have already told
> you repeatedly that Muslims proselytize at the point of a sword.
> Either convert or die! You might want to consider converting to
> Christianity if you are truly God-saturated. The best version I can
> recommend to you is Roman Catholicism. It is one of the oldest
> religions and has a proven track record and its adherents regard it as
> the only true religion. All others, including Islam, are heretical.

I just told you muslims don't try to convert anyone to anything. But
I guess you know better than me, since I apparently know nothing about
the religion I practice and you are an expert on it because you've
seen Fox News. You're making very little sense. It's painful to see
you revert to your bigotry rather than accept knowledge or other
points of view that are presented. You act as though you're
omnipotent even though you don't even know some of the most basic and
trivial facts on the subject.
>
> > This is why as a leader, Muhammad did not force all of his followers
> > to convert to Islam. Non-Muslim residents paid a lower tax rate and
> > did not have to serve in the military even though they enjoyed equal
> > rights under the law.
> >
> > Christians tell me I will go to hell because I do not share their
> > beliefs. I do not believe you will go to hell for being a non-muslim.
> > I will be judged according to Islam and you will be judged according
> > to your own standards - even if you are an atheist.
>
> We atheists will be judged according to what takes place in the
> history of the times we live in, not in some never-never other world.
> Because of that, we are also capable of judging all other religions by
> the standard which we accept for ourselves. The Islamic terrorists
> have been found severely wanting and all I want is to see all of them
> dead. I hope there is a hell so they can spend all eternity there
> being repeatedly blown to pieces by bombs.
>
> > I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Islam. It's sad that the
> > actions of the few zealots will control the perception you have of the
> > masses. But if you're interested in learning the truth I suggest you
> > meet Muslims in your area or read the Qu'ran for yourself (and while
> > you're at it, please find me anything in there about 72 virgins for
> > each martyr - it's just a myth). If you want to continue following
> > your own foolish and bigoted views, be my guest as well. I for one
> > would be happy to drop this subject.
>
> No Christian or atheist is interested in reading the Koran for
> heaven's sake! Why would we want to read that when we have the Bible
> to read. And we do not need to talk to individual Muslims either. We
> know all we need to know by following the news reports of what your
> brethren are doing in the world. Do you think we are stupid or what?
> If I think you are trying to kill me, I will then try to kill you
> first. That is the ultimate "truth". You are the worst apologist for
> Islam that I have ever been exposed to.

OK, was there a point in there somewhere? Should you be judged by the
actions of every Minnestoan, every American or every athiest? Do you
agree with everything Bill Clinton stands for? Are you a clone of
Jesse Ventura? No, you can only speak for yourself. It's silly to
lump everyone of a particular group together. Especially when that
group represents 20% of the planet!

> Why don't you just come out and yell it ... "I God Damn all those
> ****ing Islamic terrorist *******s to hell - and let's all do all we
> can to kill them all and put them out of their misery as fast as
> possible"! If that is being simplistic, then I plead guilty.

I cannot damn terrorists to Hell. Only God can do such a thing, and I
believe he will. Muhammad warns us of a time in the future when
people will use his teachings to spreat violence, hate and evil. He
tells us they must be defeated. Many muslims, including myself,
believe Osama and co. to be these people. I support the efforts to
topple him.

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >
> > Here is our moronic Muslim again daring to compare Israel with Iran.
> > He is as bad as that other idiot on this newsgroup, Mr. Sherman , who
> > does this sort of thing all the time too. But Mr. Sherman always likes
> > to leave the impression that what Israel is doing is much worse!...
>
> <http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/>

The Jews do not need external enemies. They have enough enemies within
Judaism. The only people who would read what you reference are enemies
of the State of Israel. Since I am not an enemy of the State of
Israel, I will of course not bother to read any of it. Suffice it to
say, the vast majority of the Jews world wide greatly favor the
existence of the State of Israel and most will fight to the death to
defend it. Israel is our one and only ally in the region and a true
friend to the U.S. I know something about loyalty to one's friends and
so does the average Israeli.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> > No Christian or atheist is interested in reading
> > the Koran for heaven's sake! Why would we want
> > to read that when we have the Bible to read.
>
> Why on earth would I want to read the bible? I'm no more interested in
> reading it than I am in reading the Koran, the Book of Mormon or "Mein
> Kampf".

Do you mean you personally or you as a representative of Western
civilization?

Nope, not a good analysis or understanding of what I said. The Bible
is THE BOOK of Western civilization. It is the foundation of the
Judeo-Christian ethic which underlies all our Western democracies. It
is our Book par excellence.

The Koran is alien to us and need not concern us except to the extent
that we need to know how to defend against its teachings. The Book of
Mormon and Mein Kampf are minor books in the extreme and are side
shows to Western civilization.

Any Muslim who expects those of us in the West to bother about the
Koran is not oriented in reality. The Koran is a mole hill; the Bible
is Mt. Everest. If you want to play intellectual games you are going
to have to learn how to make evaluations and not be running things
together.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...

> (Edward Dolan) wrote in message >...
[...]
> > No Christian or atheist is interested in reading the Koran for
> > heaven's sake! Why would we want to read that when we have the Bible
> > to read. And we do not need to talk to individual Muslims either. We
> > know all we need to know by following the news reports of what your
> > brethren are doing in the world. Do you think we are stupid or what?
> > If I think you are trying to kill me, I will then try to kill you
> > first. That is the ultimate "truth". You are the worst apologist for
> > Islam that I have ever been exposed to.
>
> OK, was there a point in there somewhere? Should you be judged by the
> actions of every Minnesotan, every American or every atheist? Do you
> agree with everything Bill Clinton stands for? Are you a clone of
> Jesse Ventura? No, you can only speak for yourself. It's silly to
> lump everyone of a particular group together. Especially when that
> group represents 20% of the planet!

Groups are judged each and every day in this world by everyone. The
Muslims themselves through out the Middle East are the most group
think people on the face of the earth (of course, to dissent there is
to maybe lose your head). People are judged by their associations, by
the groups they belong to.

As a Muslim, you will not escape from some of the anti-Muslim
sentiment that is building world wide against your religion as a
result of what the terrorists are doing. It is one thing to speak for
yourself, but you cannot escape your group identifications either.

There is nothing peculiar about being a Minnesotan, but there is about
being an American. Every American as soon as he goes abroad realizes
that in a flash. Some groups count, others don't.

> > Why don't you just come out and yell it ... "I God Damn all those
> > ****ing Islamic terrorist *******s to hell - and let's all do all we
> > can to kill them all and put them out of their misery as fast as
> > possible"! If that is being simplistic, then I plead guilty.
>
> I cannot damn terrorists to Hell. Only God can do such a thing, and I
> believe he will. Muhammad warns us of a time in the future when
> people will use his teachings to spreat violence, hate and evil. He
> tells us they must be defeated. Many muslims, including myself,
> believe Osama and co. to be these people. I support the efforts to
> topple him.

OK! It was like pulling teeth, but you have said the right thing. I do
admit you to the common company of humanity despite your religion. You
are not a terrorist, but you are part of a religion from which it
springs. The Muslim terrorists will have to be finally wiped off the
face of the earth by their fellow Muslims in their homeland of the
Middle East. I think the Saudi will eventually undertake to do this,
especially if they keep getting attacked by the terrorists.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Edward Dolan]

(Hashim El Amin) wrote in message >...

[...]

> I agree that many "free thinkers" are often closed minded indeed. But
> you seem to only be describing yourself when you speak of being ruled
> by an ideology that tells you what to think about everything under the
> sun. Your ideology is Fox News and whatever book it is you read, and
> you refuse to test their accuracy by learning anything on the subject.
> Sir, you are not an expert!

Conservative ideology is a mess and always has been. Liberal ideology
is much more structured and thorough going. It has been worked on over
the past century and means something. Conservative thinking wanders
all over the place and I would never describe it as an ideology. It is
more just what traditional Americans have always thought about things
and is largely defined by its opposition to liberal ideology.

What I know about the world is mostly based on a lifetime of reading
and experience. I do not have to gather the latest news on everything
to have an opinion. I know what to think with out being burdened by a
lot of facts.
.......

> Honestly, what do you know about Christian Palestinians? They are
> fighting for the same cause as most Muslim Palestinians. They join
> terror groups (secular ones) and willfully fight against Israelis.
> Not all Palestinian groups are Islamic based. There are a few, such
> as Islamic Jihad and Hamas, however the vast majority are secular and
> anyone can join.

The Palestinians, whatever their religion (I suspect it is 95%
Muslim), are the most badly led people in the world. Arafat has been a
disaster for them. He should have been overthrown many years ago. I do
not know why Israel has not taken him out long ago.

> Also, what do you know about Arab press? There are many news networks
> just like in the US. Not all countries control the media - just an
> unfortunate few. Also, you make the mistake of confusing the "muslim
> world" with the "arab world." The two are not synonomous despite the
> stereotype.

I refuse to discuss the Muslim Arab press with you. Mr. Sherman is
your man for that. He will tell you that they have us much freedom as
we do here in the West no doubt.

I well know the difference between the Arab World and the Muslim
World. Nonetheless, religion is the strongest bond in the Muslim
World, most especially in third world countries which have poorly
developed nation states. That is why Osama can move so freely all over
the Muslim World. Islam is more important than is nationalism. The
reverse is the case in the Christian West.
.......

> So who do you hate more: Tom Sherman or Muslims?

I only hate the Muslim terrorists!

Ed Dolan wrote:

> > I would further suggest to you that most Americans are not having
> > exactly a love relationship with Muslims. On the contrary, the hatred
> > of them is growing by leaps and bounds. I feel like Paul Revere
> > sounding the alarm. But sleep on McDuff! You will never know what
> > kills you as you are sound asleep and nothing can wake you up.
>
> What? I'm so confused by that last paragraph that I cannot possibly
> formulate a response.

You would have to read Shakespeare to get the allusion to McDuff.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

[Larry Varney]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>I know what to think with out being burdened by a
> lot of facts.
> ......
>
>
> You would have to read Shakespeare to get the allusion to McDuff.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

It's a toss-up as to which is funnier.
--
Larry Varney
Cold Spring, KY
http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" > wrote in message . net>...
>
>>William Higley, Sr. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Question: If a bear craps in the woods and no one is around, does it still
>>>stink?
>>>
>>>Answer: Who cares.
>>>
>>>Would you pay $3000 to find out?
>>>
>>>At this point in time "Who Cares"?
>>>
>>>Logic is lost on our dear L.L.L. Rest assured that what any of us write here
>>>will probably have a very negligible effect on the sales of BiGHA. If it
>>>goes down in flames it will not be because of the efforts of Mr. Love. If
>>>the sales go platinum, I doubt that will be a repudiation of his concerns.
>>>
>>>Let him pretend he has convinced us all with his superior logic. That may
>>>get him to quit whining.
>>>
>>>William Higley, Sr. (Have I crapped in the woods? Are you willing to pay
>>>$3000 to find out?)
>>>Vision R-50
>>>RANS Rocket
>>
>>Have you purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price? Will you? Do you
>>have anything at all to say about Bigha? If the answer to these
>>questions are no, when why are you posting under this subject?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>“In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.”
>> Charles Manson
>
>
> I've noticed that Lorenzo thinks he owns any conversation pertaining
> to Bigha. If you don't condemn the bike and join his Jihad, he acts
> as though you have no right to post on his thread and calls you
> insane. Sure, you're allowed to call the bike Satan on Wheels, but if
> think otherwise, or simply do not have an opinion on the bike, you
> become his blood enemy.
>
> I honestly can't figure out his obsession with Bigha. I'm beginning
> to think he's a semi-functioning Autistic and something about Bigha
> triggers unpleasant memories from his childhood.
>
> You may have noticed some of my posts above where I ask him specific
> questions. He's never actually responded to any of them, he only says
> I'm crazy or I'm a liar. When I ask him to be more specific he says
> I'm crazy or I'm a liar. I thought he was just being a troll at
> first, but now I honestly think he doesn't know any better.
>
> Either he's delusional or completely self-centered. And what's with
> the quotes he's always adding on to his posts? Are they supposed to
> make him look more intelligent? I have a hard time trusting people
> who back up their points with quotes from Charles Manson.
>
> I guess I was trying to have an argument with him, but I've already
> won by default because I'm the only one who makes coherant points.

Coherant? You repeatedly lie about what I have said, falsely claim I
never answer questions even as you quote my answers, continually try to
change the subject because you don't like the answers to my questions.
If that is your definition of coherent then you are even more delusional
then I thought.

The question is: Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
The answer that Turner is trying to cover up is NO, no one experienced
with recumbent bicycles is buying this bike because it is ridiculously
overpriced. Not even Turner will buy one. Why Turner would be so
troubled by this is curious. If he doesn't have a financial interest
then why does he care? The only answer I can come up with is that he is
just plain nuts.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1847
: fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
defective or lost contact with reality

© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

[Tom Sherman]

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> ...

Main Entry: bor·ing
Pronunciation: 'bOr-i[ng], 'bor-
Function: adjective
Date: 1840
: causing boredom : TIRESOME

© 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Tom Sherman wrote:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>...
>
>
> Main Entry: bor·ing
> Pronunciation: 'bOr-i[ng], 'bor-
> Function: adjective
> Date: 1840
> : causing boredom : TIRESOME
>
> © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Yes, people who feel compelled to make off topic comments in an attempt
to change the subject do get boring. Do you understand how the delete
button works?

Back to the subject, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a
known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"The capacity of human beings to bore one another seems to be vastly
greater than that of any other animal."
H. L. Mencken

[Tom Sherman]

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> > "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
> >
> >>Lawrence Turner wrote:
> >>...
> >
> >
> > Main Entry: bor·ing
> > Pronunciation: 'bOr-i[ng], 'bor-
> > Function: adjective
> > Date: 1840
> > : causing boredom : TIRESOME
> >
> > © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Yes, people who feel compelled to make off topic comments in an
> attempt to change the subject do get boring. Do you understand how the > delete button works?

As I understand it, it is a mechanical switch that closes an electrical
circuit when depressed.

> Back to the subject, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a
> known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00
> price?

I expect that someone will shortly, just so this thread will end.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Mark Leuck]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
> > Yes, people who feel compelled to make off topic comments in an
> > attempt to change the subject do get boring. Do you understand how the >
delete button works?
>
> As I understand it, it is a mechanical switch that closes an electrical
> circuit when depressed.
>
> > Back to the subject, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a
> > known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00
> > price?
>
> I expect that someone will shortly, just so this thread will end.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

No way, He'll just add another block

"Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, chews
spearmint gum, wears blue jeans, drives a foreign car, is married with 1+
children, lives in a single story house, works in the service industry, is
under 6', wears glasses, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full
$3000 price?"

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Mark Leuck wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Yes, people who feel compelled to make off topic comments in an
>>>attempt to change the subject do get boring. Do you understand how the >
>
> delete button works?
>
>>As I understand it, it is a mechanical switch that closes an electrical
>>circuit when depressed.
>>
>>
>>>Back to the subject, is there anyone on this news group, who is not a
>>>known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00
>>>price?
>>
>>I expect that someone will shortly, just so this thread will end.
>>
>>Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
>
> No way, He'll just add another block
>
> "Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, chews
> spearmint gum, wears blue jeans, drives a foreign car, is married with 1+
> children, lives in a single story house, works in the service industry, is
> under 6', wears glasses, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full
> $3000 price?"
>
>

The subject line is "BiGHA Comments". That is what I'm looking for. Is
there anyone on this news group who has actually purchased a Bigha for
the full $3000.00 price and therefore can make first hand comments on
the Bigha? One person claimed he did and then recanted when asked for
details, another claimed he did but couldn't provide details and then
turned out to be an identity thief and fraud. It's a very simple
question so why do people need to lie about it?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about
other people."
Virginia Woolf (1882-1941).

[Lawrence Turner]

>
> Do you actually read any of the responses to your posts? No? I didn't
> think so. I ask a very simple question, who has purchased a Bigha for
> the full outrageous price of $3000.00, and you freak out over it. You
> need serious help. If you don't have anything to say about the subject
> (that's that line at the top that says "BiGHA Comments") stop trying to
> change the subject.
>
> Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
> actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> "Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not
> succeed.”
> Mark Twain

Why didn't you answer the questions? Was it just too difficult?

[Tom Sherman]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> ...

Main Entry: rep·e·ti·tious
Pronunciation: -'ti-sh&s
Function: adjective
Date: 1675
: characterized or marked by repetition; especially : tediously
repeating

© 2003 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Lorenzo L. Love]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
>>Do you actually read any of the responses to your posts? No? I didn't
>>think so. I ask a very simple question, who has purchased a Bigha for
>>the full outrageous price of $3000.00, and you freak out over it. You
>>need serious help. If you don't have anything to say about the subject
>>(that's that line at the top that says "BiGHA Comments") stop trying to
>>change the subject.
>>
>>Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has
>>actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
>>
>>Lorenzo L. Love
>>http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>>
>>"Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not
>>succeed.”
>> Mark Twain
>
>
> Why didn't you answer the questions? Was it just too difficult?

Still trying to change the subject away from Bigha. Still haven't read
the posts. Still a psycho. Still a liar. Are you still defending a bike
that you would never buy? Are you still defending an identity thief and
fraud?

Simple question. Why does it upset you so much? Is there anyone on this
news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
for the full $3000.00 price?

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"A fool can no more see his own folly than he can see his ears."
William Makepeace Thackeray

[Lawrence Turner]

> Coherant? You repeatedly lie about what I have said, falsely claim I
> never answer questions even as you quote my answers, continually try to
> change the subject because you don't like the answers to my questions.
> If that is your definition of coherent then you are even more delusional
> then I thought.
>
> The question is: Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known
> liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for the full $3000.00 price?
> The answer that Turner is trying to cover up is NO, no one experienced
> with recumbent bicycles is buying this bike because it is ridiculously
> overpriced. Not even Turner will buy one. Why Turner would be so
> troubled by this is curious. If he doesn't have a financial interest
> then why does he care? The only answer I can come up with is that he is
> just plain nuts.
>
> Lorenzo L. Love
> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> Main Entry: psy·cho·sis
> Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s
> Function: noun
> Inflected Form(s): plural psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/
> Etymology: New Latin
> Date: 1847
> : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
> defective or lost contact with reality
>
> © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

No, actually you haven't answered a single question I've asked. I
haven't lied about anything, although you say I have without giving a
specific example.

You are the one who's lied repeatedly. I've pointed out your lies and
you either change the subject or lie again in order to continue with
your Jihad against Bigha.

Here's another question. This one is for anybody, not just Lorenzo.
Who on this board really gives a hoot what Lorenzo thinks about Bigha
or anything else?

[Tom Sherman]

Lawrence Turner wrote:
> ...
> Here's another question. This one is for anybody, not just Lorenzo.
> Who on this board really gives a hoot what Lorenzo thinks about Bigha
> or anything else?

NOBODY cares that Mr. Lawrence Turner and Mr. Lorenzo L. Love have a
disagreement about Bigha.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Mark Leuck]

"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Lawrence Turner wrote:
> > ...
> > Here's another question. This one is for anybody, not just Lorenzo.
> > Who on this board really gives a hoot what Lorenzo thinks about Bigha
> > or anything else?
>
> NOBODY cares that Mr. Lawrence Turner and Mr. Lorenzo L. Love have a
> disagreement about Bigha.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

It would appear you do :)

[Edward Dolan]

Larry Varney > wrote in message >...

> Edward Dolan wrote:
> >I know what to think with out being burdened by a
> > lot of facts.
> > ......
> >
> >
> > You would have to read Shakespeare to get the allusion to McDuff.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> It's a toss-up as to which is funnier.

Mr. Varney burdens himself with a lot of facts (he has got to think
for himself and can only know what to think after he has gathered a
lot of facts) and still is not able to think correctly about anything.
Now that is funny!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota