Re: Velokraft vs. Baron, Jester, etc. Your thoughts?

[Mark Leuck]

"EZ Biker :-)" > wrote in message
news:Niisb.176657$Fm2.158685@attbi_s04...
> OK as promised (To my Friend(?) Ed Dolan) here's a fresh post inviting
> anyone's thoughts about the new LR kid on the block; the Velokraft. (It's
> been a HOT Topic in the BROL HPV message board. So, I invite opinions on
if
> Barons, Taifun's, Jester's and other presently used LR's are going to
start
> showing up in the For Sale ad's, due to this (VK) 19 lb carbon fiber
> beastie?
> EZ (I want to add a LR to my stable) Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl.
(Bacchetta
> Aero Pilot)

I wanted a Jester, ended up getting a Baron and couldn't be happier

[Dave Larrington]

Mark Leuck wrote:

> I wanted a Jester, ended up getting a Baron and couldn't be happier

I wanted a Baron and got, er, a Baron. I'm dubious as to whether the loss
of a few pounds off the bike and a couple of thousand off my wallet will
make me significantly faster.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Bill B]

Hey EZ. Why don't you go visit your neighbor JIM. He has a VK that is
built up to the hilt.His other bike is a baron. He also just built a
wicked carbon baron clone that is complete and waiting to be
painted.Check him out if you don't already know him.

http://www.jjscozzi.com/

[EZ Biker :-\)]

Thanks Bill, I've been in contact with Jim and we've sent e-mails back and
fourth. He's close to having his VK2 completed and will be posting picts.
As for my post here, I'm just trying to get a sample of thoughts and
opinions about the VK and LR's in general. LOVE my Aero, but still am
thinking of "Adding" a LR to the stable.
EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (Bacchetta Aero Pilot)





"Bill B" > wrote in message
om...
> Hey EZ. Why don't you go visit your neighbor JIM. He has a VK that is
> built up to the hilt.His other bike is a baron. He also just built a
> wicked carbon baron clone that is complete and waiting to be
> painted.Check him out if you don't already know him.
>
> http://www.jjscozzi.com/

[John Foltz]

"EZ Biker :-\)" > wrote in message news:<Niisb.176657$Fm2.158685@attbi_s04>...
> OK as promised (To my Friend(?) Ed Dolan) here's a fresh post inviting
> anyone's thoughts about the new LR kid on the block; the Velokraft. (It's
> been a HOT Topic in the BROL HPV message board. So, I invite opinions on if
> Barons, Taifun's, Jester's and other presently used LR's are going to start
> showing up in the For Sale ad's, due to this (VK) 19 lb carbon fiber
> beastie?
>
I think there may be a few due to the VK and the Cobrabike. But both
are low-volume animals, so they're not going to generate any mass
abandonment of aluminum-framed lowracers.

[harryo]

"EZ Biker :-\)" > wrote in message news:<Niisb.176657$Fm2.158685@attbi_s04>...
> OK as promised (To my Friend(?) Ed Dolan) here's a fresh post inviting
> anyone's thoughts about the new LR kid on the block; the Velokraft. (It's
> been a HOT Topic in the BROL HPV message board. So, I invite opinions on if
> Barons, Taifun's, Jester's and other presently used LR's are going to start
> showing up in the For Sale ad's, due to this (VK) 19 lb carbon fiber
> beastie?

I certainly don't plan on parting with my Baron. It is a proven
commodity and the Velokraft is not. I am not implying that the
Velokraft is not a quality bike. From all appearances it seems it is,
but there just have not been enough of them produced, with enough use,
to establish how they will fare long term, especially for everyday
road use. Again, I am implying nothing about the Velokraft's quality,
but I can't help wondering how any superlight, CF lowracer would hold
up, for extended use, by a clydesdale, like myself.

I also wonder how much weight you will actually save. From reports I
have read, a 19 lb Velokraft is only possible if one is willing to
spend big bucks for the lightest components. Again, I would wonder
about the durability of some of these components for everyday road
use. I have never been a weight weenie and as Dave said, I don't feel
the weight savings of a Velokraft would translate to much of a speed
increase for the riding that I do. Perhaps if one were mainly riding
very hilly to mountainous terrain, there could be an advantage for
climbing but then, IMO, a lowracer is not really an ideal bike for
climbing anyway.

Another problem I see, for the US market, is a single distributor.
Optima ran into this problem when Yellowbike was the sole US dealer.
If a good dealer network is established, any problems could be minimal
but given the nature of the handbuilt, low volume production of the
Velokraft, I don't see this happening. Lowracers, themselves, are a
niche market bike and the superlight CF lowracers are niche market
within that niche market. I really can't envision them becoming
mainstream in the lowracer market.

In the last several years, I have repeatedly heard two lowracers
touted as being the most streetable for everyday use and long distance
road riding. these are the Earthcycles Sunset and the Optima Baron.
The Sunset is no longer in production and there are very limited
numbers available if current owners wished to sell. The Baron is in
production, is easily available and has a proven track record.

Harry

[Mikael Seierup]

"harryo" skrev...
> In the last several years, I have repeatedly heard two lowracers
> touted as being the most streetable for everyday use and long distance
> road riding. these are the Earthcycles Sunset and the Optima Baron.
> The Sunset is no longer in production and there are very limited
> numbers available if current owners wished to sell. The Baron is in
> production, is easily available and has a proven track record.

Calling the VK2 a lowracer is exaggerating a bit IMHO.
Its more of a semilow. I would say it compares with the Baron (not the low version).
Meaning its well suited for road- and cityuse and even touring with a trailer.
I have 4000 km or so on my VK so far and I don't shy away from gravel or forestpaths.

Also superlight as in 19 lbs is more a result of what you put on it componentwise
as you stated. My VK is 24.5 lbs with a carbon M5 tailfaring. I might get it down
to 23.5 lbs or less on the VK2 but again its a question of how much cash I
throw after it.

The Baron is a cool bike. But the Stinger was actually a lot cooler
for me at least when I had a chance to try both. Very nice little bike.

Mikael

[harryo]

"Mikael Seierup" > wrote in message >...
>
> Calling the VK2 a lowracer is exaggerating a bit IMHO.
> Its more of a semilow. I would say it compares with the Baron (not the low version).
> Meaning its well suited for road- and cityuse and even touring with a trailer.
> I have 4000 km or so on my VK so far and I don't shy away from gravel or forestpaths.

I consider any bike that you can support by putting a hand down, while
staying clipped in, a lowracer. You can do this on a Baron and it
appears that it can also be done on the Velokraft.

The geometry of the Velokraft does look quite similar to a Baron and
Jester, which certainly isn't a bad thing. This similarity and the
similar seat height, which is higher than the more extreme lowracers,
should make the Velokraft a very "streetable" bike.

Mikael, is your bike, the VK2, the second generation frame with the
larger cross section from the original? How would you rate the
stiffness of the frame?

Harry


> Also superlight as in 19 lbs is more a result of what you put on it componentwise
> as you stated. My VK is 24.5 lbs with a carbon M5 tailfaring. I might get it down
> to 23.5 lbs or less on the VK2 but again its a question of how much cash I
> throw after it.
>
> The Baron is a cool bike. But the Stinger was actually a lot cooler
> for me at least when I had a chance to try both. Very nice little bike.
>
> Mikael

[Mikael Seierup]

"Tom Sherman" skrev

> What type of person rides a carbon fiber lowracer wearing blue jeans?

Hey it was friggin March ;-) And there was a cafestop included AFAIK.
I don't always feel like looking like an escaped balletdancer in those tights.

M.

[Mikael Seierup]

"harryo" skrev

> Mikael, is your bike, the VK2, the second generation frame with the
> larger cross section from the original? How would you rate the
> stiffness of the frame?

Nope VK1 so far. Will be a VK2 in about 3 weeks.

M.

[Zach Kaplan Cycles]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...

> There were at least three Sunsets for sale in 2003, and one may still be
> available. [2] Mine is NOT for sale.
>
<snip>

> [2] Zach Kaplan recently advertised his.

My Earth Cycles Sunset is still for sale.

Zach Kaplan

[Dave Larrington]

harryo wrote:

> I consider any bike that you can support by putting a hand down, while
> staying clipped in, a lowracer.

I'd call a bike a low racer if one can put both palms flat on the floor
while clipped in. Otherwise my Speedmachine is a low racer which, with a
seat height of about 40 cm, it isn't.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[cbb]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
>
> Hopefully the current Optima Baron frames are more durable than the
> first generation - I know of three that failed [1] at the head tube/main
> tube junction, and at least one of the riders is far from a Clydesdale.
>

I had one of the earlier Barons that was replaced under warrenty. From
looking at the new frame I don't think it is possible to cause the new
frames to fail in the same manner. The area around the headtube where
my first frame failed is now reinforced in several manners to the
point of probably being over built. That doesn't mean that there are
not other weak points but I have not heard of any other failures.

Craig

[harryo]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
>
> Hopefully the current Optima Baron frames are more durable than the
> first generation - I know of three that failed [1] at the head tube/main
> tube junction, and at least one of the riders is far from a Clydesdale.
>

As did mine. To their credit, Optima was very good about replacing
the frame. My failure happened during the 2nd week of 9/02. At that
time, there was no distributor in the US and I emailed Optima about
the frame failure. They responded by email immediately, made no
excuses and said they would replace the frame. Optima had just
finalized a deal with Nu-Tech Cycling to distribute their bikes in the
US. The Optima folks were flying to Los Vegas, in 3 weeks, for
Interbike and were meeting with the Nu-Tech rep there. They brought
my frame with them when they flew here for Interbike, hand delivered
it to the gentleman from Nu-Tech and he shipped it to me the same day,
from his hotel in Los Vegas.

Outstanding customer support, IMO. With 2 distributors and a growing
network of Optima dealers now in place in the States, this support
should continue to be excellent.

Harry

[Tom Sherman]

Dave Larrington wrote:
>
> harryo wrote:
>
> > I consider any bike that you can support by putting a hand down, while
> > staying clipped in, a lowracer.
>
> I'd call a bike a low racer if one can put both palms flat on the floor
> while clipped in. Otherwise my Speedmachine is a low racer which, with a
> seat height of about 40 cm, it isn't.

I suspect that most people lack Mr. Larrington's simian body
proportions. By his criteria, the Ross Festina is not a lowracer for me.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Torben Scheel]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message
...
> harryo wrote:
>
> > I consider any bike that you can support by putting a hand down, while
> > staying clipped in, a lowracer.
>
> I'd call a bike a low racer if one can put both palms flat on the floor
> while clipped in. Otherwise my Speedmachine is a low racer which, with a
> seat height of about 40 cm, it isn't.

I could do that if I were an orangutang - I can reach both sides from my
38cm quasilow with my fingertips, so I'm getting there ;-)

Who invented the "quasilow" term?

Torben

[Mikael Seierup]

"Torben Scheel" skrev...
> I could do that if I were an orangutang - I can reach both sides from my
> 38cm quasilow with my fingertips, so I'm getting there ;-)

Whats so hot about slapping a hand down anyway? :-)
Here in Copenhagen I'd much rather have the sole of my shoe
contact the roads than the palm of my hand.
This also leaves two hands on the handlebars for steering,
braking and shifting. (Not necessarily in that order.)

Seat recline is also a factor btw.

M.

[Cletus Lee]

In article >, says...

> Who invented the "quasilow" term?

Would that be Victor Hugo?

--

Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager
http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -