Volae Reports Anyone?

[bentup]

Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen anything
new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
(Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?

Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
- What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
- Average speed improvement?
- Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
- Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
- Problems or concerns.

And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments regarding
the following “hypothetical person” which could soon be purchasing a
Volae. (No, this is not me, really…. really):

Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5’6”, 10-15
pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000 miles
(would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.

This “hypothetical person” is looking for comments regarding:
- Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
- Suggested gearing.
- Suggested crank arm length for this “not so tall” person
(inseam 31”).
- Any other comments you may have for this “hypothetical person”.
- Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
problems fitting different tires into fork)

Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
much longer than I first thought it would be.



--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

[Bill B]

bentup > wrote in message >...
> Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen anything
> new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
> (Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
> of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?
>
> Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
> - What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
> - Average speed improvement?
> - Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
> - Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
> - Problems or concerns.
>
> And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments regarding
> the following ?hypothetical person? which could soon be purchasing a
> Volae. (No, this is not me, really?. really):
>
> Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5?6?, 10-15
> pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000 miles
> (would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
> miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
> time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
> sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.
>
> This ?hypothetical person? is looking for comments regarding:
> - Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
> - Suggested gearing.
> - Suggested crank arm length for this ?not so tall? person
> (inseam 31?).
> - Any other comments you may have for this ?hypothetical person?.
> - Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
> problems fitting different tires into fork)
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
> much longer than I first thought it would be.

I thought about getting a volae but ended up buying a Bacchetta.here
are a few things to think about.
If Visions [ATP makes the Volae frames]future is in question I would
be think twice about buying the Volae.
Since Volae is a Hostelshoppe only bike you won't have the dealer base
that Bacchetta does.
I like the oval frame tube better than the round tube that The Volae
has.
I sure others will add to my 2cents.

[Robert Siegel]

Vision no longer makes the frames. Hostel Shoppe's owner told me he is in
the process of moving frame production to a high-quality frame manufacturing
facility in the Midwest, nearer to Hostel Shoppe. The manufacturing
facility was part of the original Schwinn company and is run by a Schwinn
heir.

Also, Volae uses higher quality components than Bachetta or Vision at the
same price points.

Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping both
ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).

Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of recumbents
are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a couple
of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.

Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"Bill B" > wrote in message
om...
> bentup > wrote in message
>...
> > Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen anything
> > new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
> > (Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
> > of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?
> >
> > Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
> > - What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
> > - Average speed improvement?
> > - Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
> > - Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
> > - Problems or concerns.
> >
> > And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments regarding
> > the following ?hypothetical person? which could soon be purchasing a
> > Volae. (No, this is not me, really?. really):
> >
> > Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5?6?, 10-15
> > pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000 miles
> > (would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
> > miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
> > time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
> > sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.
> >
> > This ?hypothetical person? is looking for comments regarding:
> > - Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
> > - Suggested gearing.
> > - Suggested crank arm length for this ?not so tall? person
> > (inseam 31?).
> > - Any other comments you may have for this ?hypothetical person?.
> > - Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
> > problems fitting different tires into fork)
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
> > much longer than I first thought it would be.
>
> I thought about getting a volae but ended up buying a Bacchetta.here
> are a few things to think about.
> If Visions [ATP makes the Volae frames]future is in question I would
> be think twice about buying the Volae.
> Since Volae is a Hostelshoppe only bike you won't have the dealer base
> that Bacchetta does.
> I like the oval frame tube better than the round tube that The Volae
> has.
> I sure others will add to my 2cents.

[tzenobite]

In article
>, Robert
Siegel > wrote:

[...]
> Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
> then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping both
> ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).
>
> Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of recumbents
> are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a couple
> of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.
[...]
hostel shoppe ships also to italy? ;-)
matteo

[Robert Siegel]

You need to ask Hostel Shoppe.

--
Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"tzenobite" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >, Robert
> Siegel > wrote:
>
> [...]
> > Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
> > then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping
both
> > ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).
> >
> > Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of
recumbents
> > are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a
couple
> > of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.
> [...]
> hostel shoppe ships also to italy? ;-)
> matteo

[John Harlow]

tzenobite > wrote in message >...
> In article
> >, Robert
> Siegel > wrote:
>
> [...]
> > Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
> > then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping both
> > ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).
> >
> > Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of recumbents
> > are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a couple
> > of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.
> [...]
> hostel shoppe ships also to italy? ;-)
> matteo

I bought my Volae team in July, over 1500 miles ago. I also have a
optima lynx (33 lbs.) I love my Team average speed is up about 2mph.
At 5'8 I ordered 165mm cranks , my knees are doing better with the
shorter cranks. The supersonic tires that came with the bike are not
very good road tires,3 flats the first 100 miles. I put on some
vredestein fortezza tires, much better I run about 120 psi in them.
Hills are faster now although I did replace the stock 12/27 cassette
with a XT 11/32.Hostle shoppe was great to work with hope their new
frame builder works out. John

[Doc Musekamp]

I visited HS yesterday...Was told Waterford Precision Cycles in Waterford,
WI is the new frame builder. No changes planned in geometry, but look for a
new wider tire/fender capable dual 26 next season. Also, Rolf is designing a
new seat to offer as an option to the hardshell type, for those so
inclined...
That's all I was able to learn...

Doc Musekamp

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message
...
> Vision no longer makes the frames. Hostel Shoppe's owner told me he is in
> the process of moving frame production to a high-quality frame
manufacturing
> facility in the Midwest, nearer to Hostel Shoppe. The manufacturing
> facility was part of the original Schwinn company and is run by a Schwinn
> heir.
>
> Also, Volae uses higher quality components than Bachetta or Vision at the
> same price points.
>
> Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
> then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping
both
> ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).
>
> Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of
recumbents
> are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a
couple
> of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.
>
> Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
> "Bill B" > wrote in message
> om...
> > bentup > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen
anything
> > > new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
> > > (Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
> > > of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?
> > >
> > > Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
> > > - What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
> > > - Average speed improvement?
> > > - Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
> > > - Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
> > > - Problems or concerns.
> > >
> > > And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments
regarding
> > > the following ?hypothetical person? which could soon be purchasing a
> > > Volae. (No, this is not me, really?. really):
> > >
> > > Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5?6?, 10-15
> > > pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000
miles
> > > (would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
> > > miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
> > > time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
> > > sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.
> > >
> > > This ?hypothetical person? is looking for comments regarding:
> > > - Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
> > > - Suggested gearing.
> > > - Suggested crank arm length for this ?not so tall? person
> > > (inseam 31?).
> > > - Any other comments you may have for this ?hypothetical
person?.
> > > - Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
> > > problems fitting different tires into fork)
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
> > > much longer than I first thought it would be.
> >
> > I thought about getting a volae but ended up buying a Bacchetta.here
> > are a few things to think about.
> > If Visions [ATP makes the Volae frames]future is in question I would
> > be think twice about buying the Volae.
> > Since Volae is a Hostelshoppe only bike you won't have the dealer base
> > that Bacchetta does.
> > I like the oval frame tube better than the round tube that The Volae
> > has.
> > I sure others will add to my 2cents.
>
>

[Jeff Wills]

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message >...
> Vision no longer makes the frames. Hostel Shoppe's owner told me he is in
> the process of moving frame production to a high-quality frame manufacturing
> facility in the Midwest, nearer to Hostel Shoppe. The manufacturing
> facility was part of the original Schwinn company and is run by a Schwinn
> heir.

Waterford's gonna be making 'bents? Oh happy day!

I wonder if Richard Schwinn remembers anything about the "Schwinn"
full-faired trike that was raced in the early-'80's IHPVA events. I
think Chris Jordan owns the frame now... I dunno where the body shell
went.

Jeff

[Marc Rosenbaum]

I bought a Volae Club LX in late September. Only previous recumbent
experience was a few hundred miles 10 years ago with a Counterpoint
Presto, which I didn't like. I'm 50, 5'9", 150 pounds, and live in NH
on the VT border, lots of hills. I'm running Conti Ultra Gatorskins
and have 265 miles on the bike with no problems. I swapped the
Truvativ crankset for an Ultegra 170mm and set that up 52-39-24 for a
lower gear, using a DA BB. Using a 12-27 cassette and run out of top
gear on a downhill. I bought an 11T whihc i may put on the cassette to
see if I should switch.

It is clear that riding this bike uses some different muscles than my
upright. My upright is very non-aero (31 yr old custom Bob Jackson
with MTB bars to ease neck troubles) and it is clear that I was
slightly faster on the Volae than the BJ right off the bat. The Volae
climbs much better than the Presto and is much faster. I expect that I
will ultimately be noticeably faster on the Volae than the BJ.

Steering is a bit twitchy but I'm getting better every ride. Build
quality seems fine. I find the carbon M5 seat very comfortable, HS
has been experimenting with two layers of different density foam. I
rode 60 miles (my longest ride on the Volae - wanting to "break-in" my
new muscles without injury) with a short stop in the middle and it was
very easy on my body. I actually bonked close to home because I had
forgotten to stop and have something to eat!

I have fooled with seat angle a lot and am a bit more upright now than
before, because it feels better climbing and my low speed balance is
better.

I had to choose which bike to buy from a distance without test riding.
I considered both the bacchetta and the volae and without real data
chose the Club LX because I liked the seat attachment and idler
designs better than the Bacchetta, and because the Club LX price point
seemed better than a comparable Bacchetta. Although I have heard a
lot on the Bacchetta list about the non-round tubing and its
superiority, I don't think I'm strong enough to care - it certainly
doesn't feel soft when I pedal hard. Interestingly enough, the
flagship bacchetta, the Aero, is made from round tubing.

I feel very well treated by the HS folks and appreciated their "you
can return it" policy.

It's already too darn cold here for me to enjoy riding so I'm mostly
waiting for next season. I'm trying to figure out if I should get a
trainer for the winter to continue to build my "bent legs."

Marc Rosenbaum
Meriden, NH


bentup > wrote in message >...
> Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen anything
> new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
> (Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
> of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?
>
> Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
> - What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
> - Average speed improvement?
> - Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
> - Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
> - Problems or concerns.
>
> And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments regarding
> the following ?hypothetical person? which could soon be purchasing a
> Volae. (No, this is not me, really?. really):
>
> Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5?6?, 10-15
> pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000 miles
> (would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
> miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
> time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
> sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.
>
> This ?hypothetical person? is looking for comments regarding:
> - Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
> - Suggested gearing.
> - Suggested crank arm length for this ?not so tall? person
> (inseam 31?).
> - Any other comments you may have for this ?hypothetical person?.
> - Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
> problems fitting different tires into fork)
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
> much longer than I first thought it would be.

[Rocketman]

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message
...
> Vision no longer makes the frames. Hostel Shoppe's owner told me he is in
> the process of moving frame production to a high-quality frame
manufacturing
> facility in the Midwest, nearer to Hostel Shoppe. The manufacturing
> facility was part of the original Schwinn company and is run by a Schwinn
> heir.

Could it be Waterford? That's very close to Hostel Shoppe, and was part of
the Schwinn company (they made the Paramount frames).

Anybody wanna make a bet with me?

> Also, Volae uses higher quality components than Bachetta or Vision at the
> same price points.

They cut out the middle man to get better margins.

> Finally, you can order a Volae from Hostel Shoppe, ride it for two weeks
> then return it and you total cost is a 5% restocking fee plus shipping
both
> ways (and any setup costs you may have paid your LBS).

What have they got to lose? Great idea, IMO. It would be very hard to pack
up your new Volae and send it back.

> Personally speaking, I think that is a very fair deal. A LOT of
recumbents
> are sitting unused in garages because their owners discovered after a
couple
> of weeks of riding that their new bikes were not quite "right" for them.

Gotta agree with ya. Sounds like Hostel Shoppe has it all figured out.

-Barry

[Rocketman]

"Doc Musekamp" > wrote in message
...
> I visited HS yesterday...Was told Waterford Precision Cycles in Waterford,
> WI is the new frame builder.

I knew it! Wow, that's a very reputable builder. Quite a pedigree.

-Barry

[Dave Harney]

I got one of the very first Club Volaes in early July of this year and now
have about 3,000 miles on it. I'm a little over 60, a little under 6 foot
and around 170 lbs. After 30 years of riding DF bikes, my back, neck and
wrist problems were telling me it was time to quit biking. I never really
liked the idea of a recumbent and had never ridden one before this July -
but desperation makes strange bedfellows.

I'd met Rolf a few times before on tandem bike rides and found him to be
very well respected in the recumbent cycling world. So we drove a couple
hundred miles to Stevens Point and spent most of the day trying out both
single and tandem recumbents. IMHO, the Hostel Shop is a great place to buy
a bike.

OK, the bike - I found it very difficult to learn to ride this critter and
it took about 1,000 miles before I felt mildly secure. After 2,000 miles I
felt 98% as secure as I did on my old DF - heavy city traffic is still a
little more challenging than with a DF. I think my age and lack of any
recumbent experience was the reason for the long learning curve - younger
folk would probably be good-to-go in 50 miles.

After one month, I rode the MS 150 mile (in 2 days) Best Dam Bike Tour in
Wisconsin. I simply could not have made the ride on my old DF. The Volae
was really great - although I was slow going up the hills, down hills were
an absolute thrill. My average speed was almost 15 mph - nothing to write
home about, but excellent for me. BTW, I seem to be slowly improving on
hills as new muscles get conditioned.

My back, neck and wrist problems all vanished - I really love that M5 seat.
The Volae is actually therapy for when my back gets sore from doing too much
nonsense like household chores. I had foot numbness on my DF and it is
worse on the Volae but I'm working with a foot doc and hope to correct this
issue also.

The bike has been remarkably reliable and (knock on wood) I've had zero
mechanical problems. After 3,000 miles I see very little wear on the 23c
Gator Skin tires and (again, knock on wood) I've never had a flat or needed
to adjust a spoke.

I believe my average speed has increased about 2 mph even with if a bit
slower on the steep hills - we have lots of steep hills in the Wisconsin
Kettle Moraine area. Moderate hills are no problem at all. More
importantly, I can ride 50 - 70 miles without pain!! The Volae reminds me
of why I started biking 30 years ago.

Now for a few issues - the 23c tire width has been very good and the Gator
Skin tires have been excellent; however, I prefer a 25c and cannot find a
quality tire in that width for 650c (yes, Terry makes a 28c tire that I
don't want). If Gator Skin comes out with a 25c I'll buy it instantly just
to get a little more security on the occasional gravel road. Next is
carrying capacity. I mounted 2 water bottle cages on the sides of the M5
seat and this is working pretty well. The basic seat bag is excellent for
club rides and day trips but not very good for any longer trips or foul
weather gear. Rolf helped me mount a Blackburn rear rack and that seems to
be OK - a bit of a kluge bending the arms. I plan to tour in Ireland with
the bike next spring, so we'll see how well the rack works out. I never
used fenders on a DF and see even less of a need on the Volae with the M5
seat. I'm also going to try some different chain rings. The 30/42/52 is OK
but I'm going to try 24/38/48 as I'd like to spin more on the steep hills
and I almost never use the 52. I need to be going 26 or 28 mph to benefit
from the 52 - I just don't peddle that much over 30 mph. BTW, I have a
policy of not going over 40 mph on any bike, but the Volae was rock solid at
45 when I did violate my rule one day on a long down hill.

Basically, the component set has worked flawlessly.

I just learned on this thread about Waterford potentially building the
frames - wow, that is good news as these guys are really excellent frame
builders with a solid business (at least as far as I know).

I may not be the best judge of recumbents as this is my first bent, but I
truly love the bike and would not hesitate recommending it to anyone who is
serious about biking (i.e. there may be a learning curve for newbies).
Hostel Shop is a great bike store, and the Volae is a really quality bike.
We also bought a Double Vision recumbent tandem. I like the bike, but would
not give it the same level of praise as the Volae - I just feel the Volae,
for me, is one of those unique finds in life. BTW, it is really interesting
how many non bikers comment about my Volae - it seems to represent some type
of technical elegance that impresses a variety of people.


"bentup" > wrote in message
...
> Looking for new reports on the Volae, good or bad. Haven't seen anything
> new for several months and was looking at purchasing one this winter
> (Club LX or Team). Now that some of the owners have had several months
> of riding in, what's your opinion of the bike?
>
> Looking for comments (for everyone) on :
> - What other bike(s) are you comparing it to.
> - Average speed improvement?
> - Hill climbing improvement, or not, or in general.
> - Your component setup, and suggested upgrades.
> - Problems or concerns.
>
> And if you still have time, I would be interested in comments regarding
> the following "hypothetical person" which could soon be purchasing a
> Volae. (No, this is not me, really.. really):
>
> Age: fast approaching 50 (in 6 months). Height/weight: 5'6", 10-15
> pounds more than it should be. Typical yearly distance: 1500-2000 miles
> (would be more but wife/kids/house/yard/etc. come into play). 10-20
> miles weekdays, 3 days per week and 30-60 miles per day on weekends,
> time/weather permitting. Terrain: hilly back roads, ¼ to ¾ mile hills,
> sometimes steep, kettle moraine area.
>
> This "hypothetical person" is looking for comments regarding:
> - Experience switching from a TE (present bike) to a Volae.
> - Suggested gearing.
> - Suggested crank arm length for this "not so tall" person
> (inseam 31").
> - Any other comments you may have for this "hypothetical person".
> - Front tire selection issues. (seen eariler posts regarding
> problems fitting different tires into fork)
>
> Thanks in advance for any comments. Sorry for the length of this post,
> much longer than I first thought it would be.
>
>
>
> --
> >--------------------------<
> Posted via cyclingforums.com
> http://www.cyclingforums.com

[John W]

"Marc Rosenbaum" wrote in message
> Although I have heard a
> lot on the Bacchetta list about the non-round tubing and its
> superiority, I don't think I'm strong enough to care - it certainly
> doesn't feel soft when I pedal hard. Interestingly enough, the
> flagship bacchetta, the Aero, is made from round tubing.
>
If you work on your bike and you use a repair stand it sure is a lot easier
to clamp a round tube that it is the upside down teardrop tube.

John

[Seth Jayson]

My 2 cents.

two of the first Volaes made hang in my garage. No wait, one's on the
trainer in the living room now. (stupid darkness) My wife Jen's been
on a club since before the production run, when Rolf loaned her the
prototype for a month. (How many bike shops have just up and loaned
you a bike for a month?)

She rides what is now a club LX. She came from a wedgie and took to
the 'bent immediately. On her first ride on the prototype, up in
Pointy Steve, she was ditching the local club's roadies (while I
fought off food poisoning back in the park.)Two days into the loan she
told me to sell her Klein Quantum.

Don't believe any of the BS theories (always spouted by folks who
haven't been on the bike)about this bike being wiggly because the tube
is round. The boom is short and it's solid.

I ride a team that Rolf's loaned me, and I've used it for fast club
rides, a lot of wedgie-whooping on RAGBRAI (wasn't even a fair
contest) and also for commuting on realy crappy chicago streets. It
has proved to be more durable and more comfortable than my trusty RANS
rocket, even on broken pavement, glass, whatever. It is also very very
fast and climbs uphill like crazy.

The Club and the Team were the objects of much lust on RAGBRAI.
Wedgies were constantly asking if they could try them out. I'm very
sad that the arrival of winter has me back on uprights shuttling to
and from the commuter train. I miss commuting on the team.

On steering, I don't quite understand the 'squirrely' remarks above.
By comparison to any other bent I've ridden, accept for the old Vision
R40 I fixed up for my mother-in-law, the bike is docile, even at low
speed. It's a lot friendlier than a Rans rocket, that's for sure.

The only thing I don't like about it is that that wonderful Alpha Q
pro fork has such tight wheel clearance that if you're on a tour and
you must go through mud, you need to carry the bike, because otherwise
the build-up will be sanding away your carbon fiber...

Another thing to note is that the steering set-up is more customizable
than on comparable bikes. Rolf will cut the stem for you, or you can
cut your own after you get your seat angle worked out, and you can get
bars of varying widths and stems of different lengths.

Do make sure you get the right size M5 seat, though. I love riding it.
But when I had to pedal on a medium (I take a large) my back went into
spasm after 15 miles or so. Had I not known better, I would have just
blamed the seat and/or bike, and probably been quite irked.

Matteo, sicuro che sara difficile mandare un Volae in Italia. Ma sera
anche possibile che io ci vado fra un mezzo anno, e sei serio che
vorresti un volae, possiamo parlare. Dove abiti tu? Io abito vicino al
Hostel Shoppe e conosco bene Rolf e gli altri.

[mike s]

(Seth Jayson) wrote in message >...
> My 2 cents.
>
> > Don't believe any of the BS theories (always spouted by folks who
> haven't been on the bike)about this bike being wiggly because the tube
> is round. The boom is short and it's solid.
>
> I ride a team that Rolf's loaned me, and I've used it for fast club
> rides, a lot of wedgie-whooping on RAGBRAI (wasn't even a fair
> contest) and also for commuting on realy crappy chicago streets. It
> has proved to be more durable and more comfortable than my trusty RANS
> rocket, even on broken pavement, glass, whatever. It is also very very
> fast and climbs uphill like crazy.
>
> On steering, I don't quite understand the 'squirrely' remarks above.
> By comparison to any other bent I've ridden, accept for the old Vision
> R40 I fixed up for my mother-in-law, the bike is docile, even at low
> speed. It's a lot friendlier than a Rans rocket, that's for sure.
>
> Another thing to note is that the steering set-up is more customizable
> than on comparable bikes. Rolf will cut the stem for you, or you can
> cut your own after you get your seat angle worked out, and you can get
> bars of varying widths and stems of different lengths.


Seth: From your comments I am reminded that I met you and your wife
after the "Bike the Drive" ride this year. We talked, primarily with
her (nothing personal but I think any male would prefer talking to
her), about the bike and how much she liked it. This was in the park
after the ride. I think your comments about the handling of the bike
and its steering set-up versatility is spot on. I also liked the
ability to remove the seat without destroying the settings. Just pull
it off, put it back on, voila, same position. I didn't get one
because I am just not comfortable with the 'tweener bar superman set
up, although Rolf did offer to work with me on adapting the set up to
my liking. I didn't take him up on that because first, I really like
my Barcroft Virginia and second, I didn't feel comfortable having the
bike steering set up changed to the degree I would require. But, even
though the fit wasn't for me, that didn't mean it wasn't a fine bike.

Hope to see you guys again on this year's Bike the Drive as you tear
past me.

Mike S.
St. Louis, Mo

Barcroft Virginia
Barcroft Columbia
RANS Rocket
>

[nogoslow]

(Seth Jayson) wrote in message >...
> My 2 cents.
>
> two of the first Volaes made hang in my garage. No wait, one's on the
> trainer in the living room now. (stupid darkness) My wife Jen's been
> on a club since before the production run, when Rolf loaned her the
> prototype for a month. (How many bike shops have just up and loaned
> you a bike for a month?)
>
> She rides what is now a club LX. She came from a wedgie and took to
> the 'bent immediately. On her first ride on the prototype, up in
> Pointy Steve, she was ditching the local club's roadies (while I
> fought off food poisoning back in the park.)Two days into the loan she
> told me to sell her Klein Quantum.
>
> Don't believe any of the BS theories (always spouted by folks who
> haven't been on the bike)about this bike being wiggly because the tube
> is round. The boom is short and it's solid.
>
> I ride a team that Rolf's loaned me, and I've used it for fast club
> rides, a lot of wedgie-whooping on RAGBRAI (wasn't even a fair
> contest) and also for commuting on realy crappy chicago streets. It
> has proved to be more durable and more comfortable than my trusty RANS
> rocket, even on broken pavement, glass, whatever. It is also very very
> fast and climbs uphill like crazy.
>
> The Club and the Team were the objects of much lust on RAGBRAI.
> Wedgies were constantly asking if they could try them out. I'm very
> sad that the arrival of winter has me back on uprights shuttling to
> and from the commuter train. I miss commuting on the team.
>
> On steering, I don't quite understand the 'squirrely' remarks above.
> By comparison to any other bent I've ridden, accept for the old Vision
> R40 I fixed up for my mother-in-law, the bike is docile, even at low
> speed. It's a lot friendlier than a Rans rocket, that's for sure.
>
> The only thing I don't like about it is that that wonderful Alpha Q
> pro fork has such tight wheel clearance that if you're on a tour and
> you must go through mud, you need to carry the bike, because otherwise
> the build-up will be sanding away your carbon fiber...
>
> Another thing to note is that the steering set-up is more customizable
> than on comparable bikes. Rolf will cut the stem for you, or you can
> cut your own after you get your seat angle worked out, and you can get
> bars of varying widths and stems of different lengths.
>
> Do make sure you get the right size M5 seat, though. I love riding it.
> But when I had to pedal on a medium (I take a large) my back went into
> spasm after 15 miles or so. Had I not known better, I would have just
> blamed the seat and/or bike, and probably been quite irked.
>
> Matteo, sicuro che sara difficile mandare un Volae in Italia. Ma sera
> anche possibile che io ci vado fra un mezzo anno, e sei serio che
> vorresti un volae, possiamo parlare. Dove abiti tu? Io abito vicino al
> Hostel Shoppe e conosco bene Rolf e gli altri.

Boy Seth,

You must be on the payroll dude!
I beg to differ with you but a strong rider will make that bike
"wiggle".
I guess you don't know what that would be about though.
And, I do believe you live in Chi-town?
We will have to go for a ride sometime?
The Wisconsin Brevet schedual should be out soon I will post it. Hope
to see you and your Volae there.
Sharon is real close to you.
Looking forward to seeing you next season.

[Seth Jayson]

> Boy Seth,
>
> You must be on the payroll dude!
> I beg to differ with you but a strong rider will make that bike
> "wiggle".
> I guess you don't know what that would be about though.
> And, I do believe you live in Chi-town?
> We will have to go for a ride sometime?
> The Wisconsin Brevet schedual should be out soon I will post it. Hope
> to see you and your Volae there.
> Sharon is real close to you.
> Looking forward to seeing you next season.

No pay, Kev, but I do get to ride a loaned Team for free. We bought
the one my wife rides. (I've purchased Bacchettas too... I got enough
love for everyone...)

As for wiggling, anything will do that if you crank on it hard enough,
I suppose. My point is that there are a lot of people speculating who
have never ridden the Volae. It is not a noodle.

I'm pretty sure it wiggles less than an Aero, (others have said the
same thing) but on the other hand, the Team does weigh a couple pounds
more since it's not Ti.

Post that Brevet schedule. I'd like to get out and ride some longer
distances, although that may be a ways off. I got creamed this weekend
by Gary Toy out in Barrington. I'm outta shape big time.

See you at the Chitown party.

[Seth Jayson]

> The only thing I don't like about it is that that wonderful Alpha Q
> pro fork has such tight wheel clearance that if you're on a tour and
> you must go through mud, you need to carry the bike, because otherwise
> the build-up will be sanding away your carbon fiber...


Update here. Apparently, my bike had a version of the Alpha Q pro
which had REALLY tight clearance, The guys at the Hostel Shoppe
contacted me about this, and I checked against my wife's bike, and
sure enough, her Alpha Q Pro fork (as well as all the new ones) has a
bit more than 1/4 inch of clearance, more than enough for dirt to get
through. Still not enough for a fender, though ;)

sj

[bentbiker]

FWIW, I think the volae is much nicer looking than the Bachetta's, and
seem like a better dollar value. That Brass color on the club is great
looking.

Seth Jayson wrote:
>>The only thing I don't like about it is that that wonderful Alpha Q
>>pro fork has such tight wheel clearance that if you're on a tour and
>>you must go through mud, you need to carry the bike, because otherwise
>>the build-up will be sanding away your carbon fiber...
>
>
>
> Update here. Apparently, my bike had a version of the Alpha Q pro
> which had REALLY tight clearance, The guys at the Hostel Shoppe
> contacted me about this, and I checked against my wife's bike, and
> sure enough, her Alpha Q Pro fork (as well as all the new ones) has a
> bit more than 1/4 inch of clearance, more than enough for dirt to get
> through. Still not enough for a fender, though ;)
>
> sj

[Robert Siegel]

My Volae Team is only in its second day. But IMHO, Hostel Shoppe has done
a magnificent job of designing and building this extremely competitive
two-650c-wheel, state-of-the-art recumbent. AND WOW, IS IT FAST!

Plus I find it very light, responsive, comfortable and easy to ride. I am
very impressed and frankly, surprised
at how much I like it and how quickly I seem to be adapting to it from my
ride of the last two years, a LWB, low bottom bracket, Ti Rush. The Rush
is a magnificent recumbent ... but at circa-35 pounds, it is 10 pounds
heavier and a bit longer than the Volae Team. Although I love the Rush's
comfort and feel, it does not have the incredible lightness and quickness of
the Volae Team. It's just possible I'll keep both. There are some laid
back, touring type rides on which the Rush could prove a little less
demanding of the rider's attention and possibly prove to be more comfortable
over many hours. And the Rush is an unmatched sight-seeing platform.

As of this early report, I think the Volae Team is a keeper ... unless I
start to see personal "fit" problems, such as the outside possibility the
laid-back M5 seat might cause my 75-year-old back and neck some discomfort.
My first two days of rides have been under 10 miles each so they have not
been a real test but still, I am optimistically hopeful that back/neck
symptoms will not surface. So far, so good, anyhow.

Bob Siegel currently in Key Colony Beach FL

"bentbiker" > wrote in message
...
> FWIW, I think the volae is much nicer looking than the Bachetta's, and
> seem like a better dollar value. That Brass color on the club is great
> looking.
>
> Seth Jayson wrote:
> >>The only thing I don't like about it is that that wonderful Alpha Q
> >>pro fork has such tight wheel clearance that if you're on a tour and
> >>you must go through mud, you need to carry the bike, because otherwise
> >>the build-up will be sanding away your carbon fiber...
> >
> >
> >
> > Update here. Apparently, my bike had a version of the Alpha Q pro
> > which had REALLY tight clearance, The guys at the Hostel Shoppe
> > contacted me about this, and I checked against my wife's bike, and
> > sure enough, her Alpha Q Pro fork (as well as all the new ones) has a
> > bit more than 1/4 inch of clearance, more than enough for dirt to get
> > through. Still not enough for a fender, though ;)
> >
> > sj
>

[Tom Sherman]

Seth Jayson wrote:
> ...
> Post that Brevet schedule. I'd like to get out and ride some longer
> distances, although that may be a ways off. I got creamed this weekend
> by Gary Toy out in Barrington....

Gary rides a proper lowracer, not one of those nosebleed bikes. ;)

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[nogoslow]

(Seth Jayson) wrote in message >...
> > Boy Seth,
> >
> > You must be on the payroll dude!
> > I beg to differ with you but a strong rider will make that bike
> > "wiggle".
> > I guess you don't know what that would be about though.
> > And, I do believe you live in Chi-town?
> > We will have to go for a ride sometime?
> > The Wisconsin Brevet schedual should be out soon I will post it. Hope
> > to see you and your Volae there.
> > Sharon is real close to you.
> > Looking forward to seeing you next season.
>
> No pay, Kev, but I do get to ride a loaned Team for free. We bought
> the one my wife rides. (I've purchased Bacchettas too... I got enough
> love for everyone...)
>
> As for wiggling, anything will do that if you crank on it hard enough,
> I suppose. My point is that there are a lot of people speculating who
> have never ridden the Volae. It is not a noodle.
>
> I'm pretty sure it wiggles less than an Aero, (others have said the
> same thing) but on the other hand, the Team does weigh a couple pounds
> more since it's not Ti.
>
> Post that Brevet schedule. I'd like to get out and ride some longer
> distances, although that may be a ways off. I got creamed this weekend
> by Gary Toy out in Barrington. I'm outta shape big time.
>
> See you at the Chitown party.

Hi Seth,

I still have to disagree with you on this open forum.
The best "high racer design is the Bacchetta bikes".
I had the first prototype Aerocycle which is pretty much the same as
the Volae and it was a very wippy machine. The Aero is much stiffer at
the boom and of course with the thicker tubing it will be stiffer for
climbing.
The Volae is a older design sold at a reasonable price. But if you
want performance get an Aero. Ti is great and fatter tubes make for a
more effecient frame.
Sure you are not on the Payroll Seth?
My post is to bennifit those who are still shopping.
I could care less what bike anyone buys.
The Aero is the best high racer design. period.
Bacchetta has the fastest riders on there team. Did not see one fast
rider on a Volae.
I did ride one and it is like my old Aerocycle. It did "wiggle" and a
lot. The Aero is stiffer at the boom.
Like I said I could care less what bike anyone buys but if you want
performance the Ti Aero is the way to go.
You get what you pay for.
BTW, Richard Schwinn will build anything for a price. He wants a job
shop to keep his factory going.
I was there this summer. He was flabergasted by the Aero's design.
He can't build a bike like it with his current setup.
Just the facts.
I don't care what anyone of you thinks.
The truth is the truth. someone has to say it.

[nogoslow]

Tom Sherman > wrote in message >...
> Seth Jayson wrote:
> > ...
> > Post that Brevet schedule. I'd like to get out and ride some longer
> > distances, although that may be a ways off. I got creamed this weekend
> > by Gary Toy out in Barrington....
>
> Gary rides a proper lowracer, not one of those nosebleed bikes. ;)
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Hi Tom,

I am faster than Gary on my Aero.
I am faster than you on my MTB.
The only Chi-town guy I did not beat up on was Alan Arial on his Razz
Fazz with tail fairing.
Just the facts jack.
BTW, I hope not to read your Obit from riding a bike that is at
tailpipe height of your average SUV.
Hey, America is about choices dude....
You make yours I will make mine.
I suggest that you shut up when it comes to the speed department.
You don't have any on that sunset.

[Robert Siegel]

My Volae Team is an exceptionally well designed and beautifully built
recumbent AND Hostel Shoppe's support (and return policy) is unbeatable.
The Volae is a pleasure to ride, handles extremely well and is very FAST. I
am 5'10", weigh 175 pounds and have not experienced ANY boom or frameset
"wiggle".

The Volae Team weighs only two pounds more than an Aero and has equal or
better quality components. My Volae Team costs about $1,000 less than an
Aero. In addition, the 6% sales tax on the no-mail-order Aero adds another
$250. The Volae Team goes as fast as I can make it go, which is faster ...
for me ... than any of the other six high quality recumbents I have owned.
I'm not a racer but at age 75 keeping up with the non-racing upright members
of the Gainesville Cycling Club is plenty good enough for me.

Finally, Rolf Garthus and his entire team are absolutely first class people
and a total pleasure to do business with. They rank right up there with the
two other class acts in the business: John Schlitter and the Bacchetta
folks and Gardner Martin and the Easy Racers group. All three provide
superb customer support but Rolf has gone the extra mile for me in fine
tuning and even volunteering to change some parts and specs on my new Volae
Team without my even asking. Very unusual in this day and age.

Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL


"nogoslow" > wrote in message > Hi Seth,
>
> I still have to disagree with you on this open forum.
> The best "high racer design is the Bacchetta bikes".
> I had the first prototype Aerocycle which is pretty much the same as
> the Volae and it was a very wippy machine. The Aero is much stiffer at
> the boom and of course with the thicker tubing it will be stiffer for
> climbing.
> The Volae is a older design sold at a reasonable price. But if you
> want performance get an Aero. Ti is great and fatter tubes make for a
> more effecient frame.
> Sure you are not on the Payroll Seth?
> My post is to bennifit those who are still shopping.
> I could care less what bike anyone buys.
> The Aero is the best high racer design. period.
> Bacchetta has the fastest riders on there team. Did not see one fast
> rider on a Volae.
> I did ride one and it is like my old Aerocycle. It did "wiggle" and a
> lot. The Aero is stiffer at the boom.
> Like I said I could care less what bike anyone buys but if you want
> performance the Ti Aero is the way to go.
> You get what you pay for.
> BTW, Richard Schwinn will build anything for a price. He wants a job
> shop to keep his factory going.
> I was there this summer. He was flabergasted by the Aero's design.
> He can't build a bike like it with his current setup.
> Just the facts.
> I don't care what anyone of you thinks.
> The truth is the truth. someone has to say it.

[Tom Sherman]

nogoslow wrote:
> ...
> > Gary rides a proper lowracer, not one of those nosebleed bikes. ;)
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I am faster than Gary on my Aero.

I will take your word on this.

> I am faster than you on my MTB.

I have never ridden your MTB, so I do not see how you can say this. ;)

> The only Chi-town guy I did not beat up on was Alan Arial on his Razz
> Fazz with tail fairing.
> Just the facts jack.
> BTW, I hope not to read your Obit from riding a bike that is at
> tailpipe height of your average SUV.

Well, it would make Mr. Edward Dolan happy.

> Hey, America is about choices dude....
> You make yours I will make mine.

I have no problem with anyone riding a highracer (or an upright for that
matter.

> I suggest that you shut up when it comes to the speed department.
> You don't have any on that sunset.

I suggest that you learn the meaning of the following emoticon [;)]. The
"nosebleed" comment was a joke - if you did not find it funny, you are
certainly free to voice an objection, but understand that it is a joke.
For what it is worth, I might purchase a highracer someday, and it might
even be a Bacchetta Aero.

As for my speed on the Sunset, I was faster on my Rocket two years ago
than I am on the Sunset now. Does that mean that the Rocket is a faster
bike than the Sunset? Of course not.

Final point. From the publicly available evidence (postings to Internet
forums) it would appear that you have bad relations with certain people
in the Chicagoland area that we are both acquainted with. From the tone
of your response it would appear that you are assuming that I am taking
their side in the grudge match. Nothing could be further from the truth
- the only time your name has come up in a conversation that I was part
of was with someone who is NOT part of the Chicagoland group, and he was
merely mentioning that he had ridden with you. The only real comment I
have on the differences between you and the others that I am acquainted
with is that it would behoove everyone to be civil. I am not pointing
fingers here, since I have not followed certain forums closely (e.g.
BROL's message board), and I do not care who was uncivil first, since be
treated uncivilly is not an excuse to return the behavior.

I have no problem with you, Bacchetta, or the Bacchetta Aero. If I were
in a better state of health and conditioning I would be happy to ride
with you, unless you did not want my company, in which case I would
politely let you go on your way while I went on mine.

Tom Sherman - Downstate Illinois

[Robert Siegel]

Well said, Tom. All of it. You are mellowing. I would enjoy riding with
you.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> nogoslow wrote:
> > ...
> > > Gary rides a proper lowracer, not one of those nosebleed bikes. ;)
> > >
> > > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I am faster than Gary on my Aero.
>
> I will take your word on this.
>
> > I am faster than you on my MTB.
>
> I have never ridden your MTB, so I do not see how you can say this. ;)
>
> > The only Chi-town guy I did not beat up on was Alan Arial on his Razz
> > Fazz with tail fairing.
> > Just the facts jack.
> > BTW, I hope not to read your Obit from riding a bike that is at
> > tailpipe height of your average SUV.
>
> Well, it would make Mr. Edward Dolan happy.
>
> > Hey, America is about choices dude....
> > You make yours I will make mine.
>
> I have no problem with anyone riding a highracer (or an upright for that
> matter.
>
> > I suggest that you shut up when it comes to the speed department.
> > You don't have any on that sunset.
>
> I suggest that you learn the meaning of the following emoticon [;)]. The
> "nosebleed" comment was a joke - if you did not find it funny, you are
> certainly free to voice an objection, but understand that it is a joke.
> For what it is worth, I might purchase a highracer someday, and it might
> even be a Bacchetta Aero.
>
> As for my speed on the Sunset, I was faster on my Rocket two years ago
> than I am on the Sunset now. Does that mean that the Rocket is a faster
> bike than the Sunset? Of course not.
>
> Final point. From the publicly available evidence (postings to Internet
> forums) it would appear that you have bad relations with certain people
> in the Chicagoland area that we are both acquainted with. From the tone
> of your response it would appear that you are assuming that I am taking
> their side in the grudge match. Nothing could be further from the truth
> - the only time your name has come up in a conversation that I was part
> of was with someone who is NOT part of the Chicagoland group, and he was
> merely mentioning that he had ridden with you. The only real comment I
> have on the differences between you and the others that I am acquainted
> with is that it would behoove everyone to be civil. I am not pointing
> fingers here, since I have not followed certain forums closely (e.g.
> BROL's message board), and I do not care who was uncivil first, since be
> treated uncivilly is not an excuse to return the behavior.
>
> I have no problem with you, Bacchetta, or the Bacchetta Aero. If I were
> in a better state of health and conditioning I would be happy to ride
> with you, unless you did not want my company, in which case I would
> politely let you go on your way while I went on mine.
>
> Tom Sherman - Downstate Illinois

[Tom Sherman]

Robert Siegel wrote:
>
> Well said, Tom. All of it. You are mellowing. I would enjoy riding with
> you.

You are welcome.

Tom Sherman

[nogoslow]

>
> I have no problem with you, Bacchetta, or the Bacchetta Aero. If I were
> in a better state of health and conditioning I would be happy to ride
> with you, unless you did not want my company, in which case I would
> politely let you go on your way while I went on mine.
>
> Tom Sherman - Downstate Illinois

Tom,

I have no problem with you either.
I just don't understand why you post where you don't seem to have any
real interest like this thread?
Free country I guess.
BTW, I agree with you on most issues and disagree with Mr. Dolan (or
whoever he is) most of the time.
I have more miles than anyone I know of on the high racer design so I
think that gives me some right to air my opinion.
My post was geared to those who are shopping and reading this forum.
Simple as that.
My next bike will be a lowracer.
Take care...

Kevin

[bentbiker]

that all said, i'd still buy a Volae :-)

nogoslow wrote:
>>I have no problem with you, Bacchetta, or the Bacchetta Aero. If I were
>>in a better state of health and conditioning I would be happy to ride
>>with you, unless you did not want my company, in which case I would
>>politely let you go on your way while I went on mine.
>>
>>Tom Sherman - Downstate Illinois
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have no problem with you either.
> I just don't understand why you post where you don't seem to have any
> real interest like this thread?
> Free country I guess.
> BTW, I agree with you on most issues and disagree with Mr. Dolan (or
> whoever he is) most of the time.
> I have more miles than anyone I know of on the high racer design so I
> think that gives me some right to air my opinion.
> My post was geared to those who are shopping and reading this forum.
> Simple as that.
> My next bike will be a lowracer.
> Take care...
>
> Kevin

[Robert Siegel]

As I said at some length in a previous post, I bought a Volae Team and I'd
do it again.

However, I would TRY an Aero ... IF ... the Aero was close to the Volae's
price ... AND ... Bacchetta offered Hostel Shoppe's return option (a 5%
restocking fee, plus round trip shipping for $180 and no sales tax).

As always, though, YMMV.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"bentbiker" > wrote in message
...
> that all said, i'd still buy a Volae :-)
>
> nogoslow wrote:
> >>I have no problem with you, Bacchetta, or the Bacchetta Aero. If I were
> >>in a better state of health and conditioning I would be happy to ride
> >>with you, unless you did not want my company, in which case I would
> >>politely let you go on your way while I went on mine.
> >>
> >>Tom Sherman - Downstate Illinois
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I have no problem with you either.
> > I just don't understand why you post where you don't seem to have any
> > real interest like this thread?
> > Free country I guess.
> > BTW, I agree with you on most issues and disagree with Mr. Dolan (or
> > whoever he is) most of the time.
> > I have more miles than anyone I know of on the high racer design so I
> > think that gives me some right to air my opinion.
> > My post was geared to those who are shopping and reading this forum.
> > Simple as that.
> > My next bike will be a lowracer.
> > Take care...
> >
> > Kevin
>

[nogoslow]

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message >...
> As I said at some length in a previous post, I bought a Volae Team and I'd
> do it again.
>
> However, I would TRY an Aero ... IF ... the Aero was close to the Volae's
> price ... AND ... Bacchetta offered Hostel Shoppe's return option (a 5%
> restocking fee, plus round trip shipping for $180 and no sales tax).
>
> As always, though, YMMV.
>
> --
> Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

Sorry Bob but in the real world you don't get a Ti bike for the price
of a steel bike.
You will have to pay a bit more for the gray metal.
I know that the dealers around where I live will let you test ride an
Aero.
My friends shop has 6000 dollar plus DF bikes and people buy them.
Its all what you are willing to pay for Bob.
As I told Tom my post's are for people that are shopping so that they
can make an informed choice on a bike. You are a satisfied Volae
customer and thats fine by me.

Take care...

Kevin

[Robert Siegel]

I own a Ti Rush and I agree that the difference between it and the aluminum
GRR is significant and well worth the $$$$ to me.

However ... I test rode the Aero and Corsa twice and it is very possible I
missed something ... but ... I did NOT "feel" a major difference in ride
between the Aero and Corsa. Weight yes, ride no. That's one of several
reasons I am more than pleased with the 24 pound Volae.

Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
> "Robert Siegel" > wrote in message
>...
> > As I said at some length in a previous post, I bought a Volae Team and
I'd
> > do it again.
> >
> > However, I would TRY an Aero ... IF ... the Aero was close to the
Volae's
> > price ... AND ... Bacchetta offered Hostel Shoppe's return option (a 5%
> > restocking fee, plus round trip shipping for $180 and no sales tax).
> >
> > As always, though, YMMV.
> >
> > --
> > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
>
> Sorry Bob but in the real world you don't get a Ti bike for the price
> of a steel bike.
> You will have to pay a bit more for the gray metal.
> I know that the dealers around where I live will let you test ride an
> Aero.
> My friends shop has 6000 dollar plus DF bikes and people buy them.
> Its all what you are willing to pay for Bob.
> As I told Tom my post's are for people that are shopping so that they
> can make an informed choice on a bike. You are a satisfied Volae
> customer and thats fine by me.
>
> Take care...
>
> Kevin

[bentbiker]

the Aero aside, I just like the overal looks and design of the Volae
better, and the Finish is much nicer IMO>

Robert Siegel wrote:
> As I said at some length in a previous post, I bought a Volae Team and I'd
> do it again.
>
> However, I would TRY an Aero ... IF ... the Aero was close to the Volae's
> price ... AND ... Bacchetta offered Hostel Shoppe's return option (a 5%
> restocking fee, plus round trip shipping for $180 and no sales tax).
>
> As always, though, YMMV.
>

[[email protected]]

Bob,

Thanks for the Volae impressions.

As a lurker considering a highracer purchase without anything in the way
of a 'bent shop within hours of driving, it's good to collect some data.

But that's really an aside for the main issue--you're 75 and actively
cycling? That blows me away! I hope I can same the same in 30 years.

Bob, you rock! Keep on spinning!

[Robert Siegel]

I thank 1) my Mom's genes (she died at 92 after smoking two packs a day for
60-plus years) and 2) continuously from age 30, running, working out,
swimming and biking. So far so good. BUT ... in the end (no pun intended)
dumb luck may be the biggest factor.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
> wrote in message
...
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the Volae impressions.
>
> As a lurker considering a highracer purchase without anything in the way
> of a 'bent shop within hours of driving, it's good to collect some data.
>
> But that's really an aside for the main issue--you're 75 and actively
> cycling? That blows me away! I hope I can same the same in 30 years.
>
> Bob, you rock! Keep on spinning!

[nogoslow]

wrote in message >...
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the Volae impressions.
>
> As a lurker considering a highracer purchase without anything in the way
> of a 'bent shop within hours of driving, it's good to collect some data.
>
> But that's really an aside for the main issue--you're 75 and actively
> cycling? That blows me away! I hope I can same the same in 30 years.
>
> Bob, you rock! Keep on spinning!

Check out the Bacchetta list.

You are welcome to lurk there!
Why get a clone when you can get the real deal?
Please post your questions there.
The bacchetta is the best bike in the High racer class. That is if
performance matters to you.
The Volae is an old and dated design that was discarded by RC Pinto
and gang over two years ago.
I don't see to many Hostel Shopp people that are as crazzy about bents
as the Bacchetta guys are. To them it is a product to sell over the
net. Not Passion for the product.
I can relate more to Fast Freddy and his new venture than to Rolf and
his.
At least Freddy rides the bikes and has passion for the HPV sport.
This is a free and open forum and I will tell it like it is.
BTW, Bob is a cool guy but I just disagree with him on this issue. No
big deal.

[Robert Siegel]

>> BTW, Bob is a cool guy but I just disagree with him on this issue. No
big deal.

We're both cool on this, nogoslow. I enjoy and learn a lot from this
exchange of views.
Will I EVER try an Aero ... why not, especially if I come across a
slightly used Aero at the right price, so I can resell it if it isn't
"right" for me .
I'd be nuts to say never, since over the last four years I bought and
re-sold six (6) recumbents, in this order:
BikeE AT, BikeE FX, P-38 XT, Challenge Taifun quasi-low-racer, aluminum GRR
and (not yet and maybe never to be sold) Ti Rush.


>> At least Freddy rides the bikes and has passion for the HPV sport. This
is a free and open forum and I will tell it like it is.


Well ... now you' can learn something:
Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the Wisconsin
riding season.
I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half season for
about 1000 miles.

Keep on riding!

Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

[nogoslow]

> Please post your questions there.
> The bacchetta is the best bike in the High racer class. That is if
> performance matters to you.
> The Volae is an old and dated design that was discarded by RC Pinto
> and gang over two years ago.
> I don't see to many Hostel Shopp people that are as crazzy about bents
> as the Bacchetta guys are. To them it is a product to sell over the
> net. Not Passion for the product.
> I can relate more to Fast Freddy and his new venture than to Rolf and
> his.
> At least Freddy rides the bikes and has passion for the HPV sport.
> This is a free and open forum and I will tell it like it is.
> BTW, Bob is a cool guy but I just disagree with him on this issue. No
> big deal.

Try This for the bacchetta list
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bacchetta_Bikes/
This is the home page for Denny Vooheries group.
Denny is the owner of the list and the moderator.
It says that there are 287 members but he posted recently and said
that there are now over 400 members on the list which would make it
one of the biggest lists for bents out there.
I would encourage any shoppers to stop there and take a peak at the
past messages. Lots of good info on dual 26 bikes.

[nogoslow]

>
> Well ... now you' can learn something:
> Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
> recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the Wisconsin
> riding season.
> I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half season for
> about 1000 miles.
>
> Keep on riding!
>
> Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

Hi Bob,

Rich Pinto and John Schlitter are not just bike builders but two of
the fastest riders in the bent world today.
I have a different meaning for the word "passion" than you do.
This is not just "riding a lot" but riding a lot very fast and the
bike is designed for that purpose.
Most bents are a joke for serious riders.
Bacchetta expected copys and clones and I am sure that this will
continue.
Can't stop that. It speaks to Bacchetta's great design! That
simplicity makes it easier for others to build similar bikes. But I am
sure they will remain leaders in the industry. After all competition
is good for the consumer.
Check out Denny's Bacchetta list.

[Mark Leuck]

"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
> >
> > Well ... now you' can learn something:
> > Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
> > recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the Wisconsin
> > riding season.
> > I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half season
for
> > about 1000 miles.
> >
> > Keep on riding!
> >
> > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Rich Pinto and John Schlitter are not just bike builders but two of
> the fastest riders in the bent world today.
> I have a different meaning for the word "passion" than you do.
> This is not just "riding a lot" but riding a lot very fast and the
> bike is designed for that purpose.
>
> Most bents are a joke for serious riders.

Most bicycles in general are a joke for serious (using your term) riders

> Bacchetta expected copys and clones and I am sure that this will
> continue.

If anything Bacchetta copied other designs, while I'm sure it is an
excellent bike it doesn't appear to be different in design than other bikes
of that type build before it

> Can't stop that. It speaks to Bacchetta's great design!

And everyone else who uses that same basic design in the past

> That
> simplicity makes it easier for others to build similar bikes. But I am
> sure they will remain leaders in the industry. After all competition
> is good for the consumer.
> Check out Denny's Bacchetta list.

[nogoslow]

"Mark Leuck" > wrote in message news:<3LsBb.493031$Fm2.473083@attbi_s04>...
> "nogoslow" > wrote in message
> om...
> > >
> > > Well ... now you' can learn something:
> > > Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
> > > recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the Wisconsin
> > > riding season.
> > > I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half season
> for
> > > about 1000 miles.
> > >
> > > Keep on riding!
> > >
> > > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Rich Pinto and John Schlitter are not just bike builders but two of
> > the fastest riders in the bent world today.
> > I have a different meaning for the word "passion" than you do.
> > This is not just "riding a lot" but riding a lot very fast and the
> > bike is designed for that purpose.
> >
> > Most bents are a joke for serious riders.
>
> Most bicycles in general are a joke for serious (using your term) riders
>
> > Bacchetta expected copys and clones and I am sure that this will
> > continue.
>
> If anything Bacchetta copied other designs, while I'm sure it is an
> excellent bike it doesn't appear to be different in design than other bikes
> of that type build before it
>
> > Can't stop that. It speaks to Bacchetta's great design!
>
> And everyone else who uses that same basic design in the past
>
> > That
> > simplicity makes it easier for others to build similar bikes. But I am
> > sure they will remain leaders in the industry. After all competition
> > is good for the consumer.
> > Check out Denny's Bacchetta list.

Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.
Volae is not evolution of design.
I believe you are refering to the King cycle. Rich Pinto will give
much credit to this bike for his inspiration for the Aerocycle and
then the Aero.
That company went under a few years ago even though it was a great
design.
The kingcycle was not a dual 26 bike. The Ti-aero is a refinement.
The ultimate in the high racer design for right now.
I don't think there is any dispute on this fact.
It is the market place here. Bring out your best product!
I want to see a better bike than the Aero. I just don't think it will
come from the HS.
I know my bud Rich Pinto will build a better bike in the years to
come.
The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta.

[Dave Larrington]

nogoslow wrote:
> I believe you are refering to the King cycle. Rich Pinto will give
> much credit to this bike for his inspiration for the Aerocycle and
> then the Aero.
> That company went under a few years ago even though it was a great
> design.

Minor correction. Kingcycle is alive and well, but no longer making
production bicycles.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
================================================== =========
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
================================================== =========

[Robert Siegel]

Long live the New Church of Bacchetta.
Pax vobiscum The Old Church of RANS.

;-))

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mark Leuck" > wrote in message
news:<3LsBb.493031$Fm2.473083@attbi_s04>...
> > "nogoslow" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > >
> > > > Well ... now you' can learn something:
> > > > Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
> > > > recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the
Wisconsin
> > > > riding season.
> > > > I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half
season
> > for
> > > > about 1000 miles.
> > > >
> > > > Keep on riding!
> > > >
> > > > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
> > >
> > > Hi Bob,
> > >
> > > Rich Pinto and John Schlitter are not just bike builders but two of
> > > the fastest riders in the bent world today.
> > > I have a different meaning for the word "passion" than you do.
> > > This is not just "riding a lot" but riding a lot very fast and the
> > > bike is designed for that purpose.
> > >
> > > Most bents are a joke for serious riders.
> >
> > Most bicycles in general are a joke for serious (using your term) riders
> >
> > > Bacchetta expected copys and clones and I am sure that this will
> > > continue.
> >
> > If anything Bacchetta copied other designs, while I'm sure it is an
> > excellent bike it doesn't appear to be different in design than other
bikes
> > of that type build before it
> >
> > > Can't stop that. It speaks to Bacchetta's great design!
> >
> > And everyone else who uses that same basic design in the past
> >
> > > That
> > > simplicity makes it easier for others to build similar bikes. But I am
> > > sure they will remain leaders in the industry. After all competition
> > > is good for the consumer.
> > > Check out Denny's Bacchetta list.
>
> Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.
> Volae is not evolution of design.
> I believe you are refering to the King cycle. Rich Pinto will give
> much credit to this bike for his inspiration for the Aerocycle and
> then the Aero.
> That company went under a few years ago even though it was a great
> design.
> The kingcycle was not a dual 26 bike. The Ti-aero is a refinement.
> The ultimate in the high racer design for right now.
> I don't think there is any dispute on this fact.
> It is the market place here. Bring out your best product!
> I want to see a better bike than the Aero. I just don't think it will
> come from the HS.
> I know my bud Rich Pinto will build a better bike in the years to
> come.
> The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta.

[harryo]

(nogoslow) wrote in message >...
>

Well, there is no nice or easy way to say what I want, so I will be
direct and blunt, as you youself seem to prefer to be.

> Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.
> Volae is not evolution of design.

This is your obviously biased opinion and can in no way be backed up
by any facts. I believe it could be argued that the Volae bikes are
an "evolution of design" from the Vision R64 Sabre. There were
numerous twin big wheel bents, most from European manufacturers, that
were produced before the Bacchettas. You seem to be claiming that the
Bacchetta is an "evolution of design" from these bikes, but the Volae
is a not and is a knock off of the Bacchettas. Frankly, I think this
is bull****!

You are not the only Bacchetta owner to display blind brand loyalty
above objective reason. You are not the first to sugget that the
Aero, because it is a Bacchetta, and because it is titanium, is better
than any other bent. Again, I say bull****!

I agree that Bacchetta makes excellent bents. I agree that the the
Aero is an excellent bent, both technically and in quality. However,
I have ridden both the Bacchetta bikes and Volaes and, IMO, they are
all excellent bikes, with strong and weak points for each brand, which
really is almost always the case when comparing any brands and models
of quality bents. Both have attributes that will appeal strongly to
different folks and objective discussion is the best way to make
perspective buyers aware of what might appeal to them. I certainly
completely disregard statements based on blind, biased brand loyalty
and competition bashing, as, I suspect, many others also do do also.
Good Lord, this sounds like the stupid "Chevy vs Ford" crap you would
expect from teenagers! Thank God, that some, like Jude McGloin and
Zach Kaplan, are able to offer objective opinions and information on
the Bacchetta Aero.

> The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta.

Again you are offering your opinion. I don't question that the
Bacchetta founders have passion in what they are doing. I also do not
question that those involved with Volae, or any other recumbent brand
have passion in what they are building or they would not be doing it.
If you are stating, as I believe that you are, that Bacchetta is the
only company with passion, or the most passion, for building bents,
then I will respond that this proves you are incapable of any
objective opinion or statement and are full of the bull**** that you
continue to post.

Harry

[nogoslow]

"Dave Larrington" > wrote in message >...
> nogoslow wrote:
> > I believe you are refering to the King cycle. Rich Pinto will give
> > much credit to this bike for his inspiration for the Aerocycle and
> > then the Aero.
> > That company went under a few years ago even though it was a great
> > design.
>
> Minor correction. Kingcycle is alive and well, but no longer making
> production bicycles.

Thanks Dave,

Rich Pinto loves that bike and tried to improve upon it.
I am working on a dual 26 front wheel drive lowracer this winter.
We will see if We can get it ready for next season.

[bentbiker]

Nice thing I admire about RANS, though I don't currently own one, is
they have a wide variety of designs, for speed, touring, lwb, swb etc.

harryo wrote:

> (nogoslow) wrote in message >...
>
>
> Well, there is no nice or easy way to say what I want, so I will be
> direct and blunt, as you youself seem to prefer to be.
>
>
>>Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.
>>Volae is not evolution of design.
>
>
> This is your obviously biased opinion and can in no way be backed up
> by any facts. I believe it could be argued that the Volae bikes are
> an "evolution of design" from the Vision R64 Sabre. There were
> numerous twin big wheel bents, most from European manufacturers, that
> were produced before the Bacchettas. You seem to be claiming that the
> Bacchetta is an "evolution of design" from these bikes, but the Volae
> is a not and is a knock off of the Bacchettas. Frankly, I think this
> is bull****!
>
> You are not the only Bacchetta owner to display blind brand loyalty
> above objective reason. You are not the first to sugget that the
> Aero, because it is a Bacchetta, and because it is titanium, is better
> than any other bent. Again, I say bull****!
>
> I agree that Bacchetta makes excellent bents. I agree that the the
> Aero is an excellent bent, both technically and in quality. However,
> I have ridden both the Bacchetta bikes and Volaes and, IMO, they are
> all excellent bikes, with strong and weak points for each brand, which
> really is almost always the case when comparing any brands and models
> of quality bents. Both have attributes that will appeal strongly to
> different folks and objective discussion is the best way to make
> perspective buyers aware of what might appeal to them. I certainly
> completely disregard statements based on blind, biased brand loyalty
> and competition bashing, as, I suspect, many others also do do also.
> Good Lord, this sounds like the stupid "Chevy vs Ford" crap you would
> expect from teenagers! Thank God, that some, like Jude McGloin and
> Zach Kaplan, are able to offer objective opinions and information on
> the Bacchetta Aero.
>
>
>>The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta.
>
>
> Again you are offering your opinion. I don't question that the
> Bacchetta founders have passion in what they are doing. I also do not
> question that those involved with Volae, or any other recumbent brand
> have passion in what they are building or they would not be doing it.
> If you are stating, as I believe that you are, that Bacchetta is the
> only company with passion, or the most passion, for building bents,
> then I will respond that this proves you are incapable of any
> objective opinion or statement and are full of the bull**** that you
> continue to post.
>
> Harry

[Mark Leuck]

"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.

Baloney, the design Bacchetta used has been around for quite a while.

> Volae is not evolution of design.
> I believe you are refering to the King cycle. Rich Pinto will give
> much credit to this bike for his inspiration for the Aerocycle and
> then the Aero.
> That company went under a few years ago even though it was a great
> design.
> The kingcycle was not a dual 26 bike. The Ti-aero is a refinement.

So is the Vision R-65, again the Bacchetta's design has been around for a
while

> The ultimate in the high racer design for right now.
> I don't think there is any dispute on this fact.

No for me the ultimate is a low racer ala M5 or Optima

> It is the market place here. Bring out your best product!
> I want to see a better bike than the Aero. I just don't think it will
> come from the HS.
> I know my bud Rich Pinto will build a better bike in the years to
> come.
> The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta

Umm if you say so.

[nogoslow]

bentbiker > wrote in message >...
> Nice thing I admire about RANS, though I don't currently own one, is
> they have a wide variety of designs, for speed, touring, lwb, swb etc.
>
> harryo wrote:
>
> > (nogoslow) wrote in message >...
> >
> >
> > Well, there is no nice or easy way to say what I want, so I will be
> > direct and blunt, as you youself seem to prefer to be.
> >
> >
> >>Without Bacchetta there would be no Volae.
> >>Volae is not evolution of design.
> >
> >
> > This is your obviously biased opinion and can in no way be backed up
> > by any facts. I believe it could be argued that the Volae bikes are
> > an "evolution of design" from the Vision R64 Sabre. There were
> > numerous twin big wheel bents, most from European manufacturers, that
> > were produced before the Bacchettas. You seem to be claiming that the
> > Bacchetta is an "evolution of design" from these bikes, but the Volae
> > is a not and is a knock off of the Bacchettas. Frankly, I think this
> > is bull****!
> >
> > You are not the only Bacchetta owner to display blind brand loyalty
> > above objective reason. You are not the first to sugget that the
> > Aero, because it is a Bacchetta, and because it is titanium, is better
> > than any other bent. Again, I say bull****!
> >
> > I agree that Bacchetta makes excellent bents. I agree that the the
> > Aero is an excellent bent, both technically and in quality. However,
> > I have ridden both the Bacchetta bikes and Volaes and, IMO, they are
> > all excellent bikes, with strong and weak points for each brand, which
> > really is almost always the case when comparing any brands and models
> > of quality bents. Both have attributes that will appeal strongly to
> > different folks and objective discussion is the best way to make
> > perspective buyers aware of what might appeal to them. I certainly
> > completely disregard statements based on blind, biased brand loyalty
> > and competition bashing, as, I suspect, many others also do do also.
> > Good Lord, this sounds like the stupid "Chevy vs Ford" crap you would
> > expect from teenagers! Thank God, that some, like Jude McGloin and
> > Zach Kaplan, are able to offer objective opinions and information on
> > the Bacchetta Aero.
> >
> >
> >>The passion for Bents is at Bacchetta.
> >
> >
> > Again you are offering your opinion. I don't question that the
> > Bacchetta founders have passion in what they are doing. I also do not
> > question that those involved with Volae, or any other recumbent brand
> > have passion in what they are building or they would not be doing it.
> > If you are stating, as I believe that you are, that Bacchetta is the
> > only company with passion, or the most passion, for building bents,
> > then I will respond that this proves you are incapable of any
> > objective opinion or statement and are full of the bull**** that you
> > continue to post.
> >
> > Harry

You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.
But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
most 'benters.
You need to check out the Bacchetta list. Zach and Jude are regular
contributors to that list and I might add very satisfied with there
Aero's.
BTW, Zach and Jude are both bike dealers and I am sure don't like how
Rolf is undercutting the sales that could come from there shops with
the Volae sold over the net.
Running a bike shop is a tough business and hard to make any money at.
At least Bacchetta allows those shops to make a profit.
If Rolf builds a better bike than the Aero I will buy one.
I just don't think it will come from the HS.
You want to continue this or let it die?
It's up to you.

[Robert Siegel]

This is a very good point and a very real concern. We all are part of a
totally new economic model. Sales on the net are billions of dollars
annually and rising. The extremely open, transparent price competition makes
it easy for consumers to compares specs and prices in a few seconds, then
choose the highest quality for the least money. Or choose service,
convenience and also the self-interest (plus the feeling of doing good) that
comes from supporting a quality LBS.

Obviously, the net makes it extremely tough for small businesses like bike
shops to earn a living. So every small business has to offer something that
the net sellers cannot offer: an exclusive quality product (Bacchetta, for
example), speedy service, personal hands-on attention, some kind of
desirable added value at his/her shop.

We all need local bike shops and local bike shops need us.
We also like to get the most we can in exchange for our $$$.
A tough decision ... but we all make it regularly, one way or the other,
these days.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL


"nogoslow" > wrote >

BTW, Zach and Jude are both bike dealers and I am sure don't like how
> Rolf is undercutting the sales that could come from there shops with
> the Volae sold over the net.
> Running a bike shop is a tough business and hard to make any money at.
> At least Bacchetta allows those shops to make a profit.
> If Rolf builds a better bike than the Aero I will buy one.
> I just don't think it will come from the HS.

[Marc Rosenbaum]

(nogoslow) wrote in message >...

snip
> I still have to disagree with you on this open forum.
> The best "high racer design is the Bacchetta bikes".
> I had the first prototype Aerocycle which is pretty much the same as
> the Volae and it was a very wippy machine. The Aero is much stiffer at
> the boom and of course with the thicker tubing it will be stiffer for
> climbing.
> The Volae is a older design sold at a reasonable price. But if you
> want performance get an Aero. Ti is great and fatter tubes make for a
> more effecient frame.
> Sure you are not on the Payroll Seth?
> My post is to bennifit those who are still shopping.
> I could care less what bike anyone buys.
> The Aero is the best high racer design. period.
> Bacchetta has the fastest riders on there team. Did not see one fast
> rider on a Volae.
> I did ride one and it is like my old Aerocycle. It did "wiggle" and a
> lot. The Aero is stiffer at the boom.

1 - Have you actually ridden a Volae? If not, your projection of its
whippiness seem baseless.

2 - Fatter (assume you mean larger diameter) tubes make a stiffer and
stronger frame (reference my bachelor's thesis at MIT 1974, large
diameter aluminum frame bike). i understood, perhaps incorectly, that
the Aero has 2 inch diameter tubing - please correct me if the tubing
is larger in diameter. The Volae has a 2 inch diameter steel main
tube. If the diameters are the same, and the thickness is the same,
the steel will be stiffer from the higher modulus of elasticity. To
obtain the same stiffness if the two bikes both have 2 inch tubing,
the Ti bike needs the tubing to have thicker walls. This would negate
some if not all of the weight advantage. Typically, with metals the
method for taking advantage of lower density materials (Ti, Al, Mg) is
to increase tubing size while remaining at a diameter/thickness ratio
that is above the buckling failure limit. This is because the ratio
of density to modulus of elasticity is roughly constant for the common
engineering metals (which is why carbon fiber works so well, it's not
in the same ballpark). I'd love to know the tubing diameter and
thickness of both the Aero and the Volae. Can you post the data for
the Aero, and I'll see if I can find out the data for the Volae?

3 - Bob stated that the Aero is 2 pounds lighter than the Team but
since it seems clear that the stock Aero isn't really 22 pounds from
other threads on this list I wonder what the real difference between
the two bikes is. I imagine that the only way to get this data is for
someone to weigh both the Aero and Team on the same scale, in the same
frame size, without pedals and accessories. Anyone volunteer?

4 - Just because you are faster on an Aero than Bob or Tom or I am on
a Volae is meaningless in the discussion as to which is a better bike
design. You are typifying some Bacchetta owners in your highly
partisan statements (which are not the "truth", they are your
opinions.) I've never seen or ridden a Bacchetta, so I can't have an
opinion that is valid. I own a Volae Club LX. I hope to someday next
season (I'm in NH) ride a Bachetta so at least I can get a comparative
sense. I'm not personally invested in the brand I have chosen being
the "best", whatever that really means.

5 - Implying that the designer has to be a very fast rider is silly.
Most people in the design world (I'm a mech engr working mainly in
buildings, not bikes) get better at design as they get older. Most
people get slower as they age, given the same level of training. I
suspect that there are numerous examples of top-notch sporting items
being designed by folks that couldn't compete effectively on the
designs they produce. It's irrelevant to judge design effectiveness
by how much and how fast someone rides.

Marc Rosenbaum
old and slow in NH, but not fat

[Marc Rosenbaum]

"Robert Siegel" > wrote in message >...

snip

> My Volae Team is an exceptionally well designed and beautifully built
> recumbent AND Hostel Shoppe's support (and return policy) is unbeatable.
> The Volae is a pleasure to ride, handles extremely well and is very FAST. I
> am 5'10", weigh 175 pounds and have not experienced ANY boom or frameset
> "wiggle".
>
> The Volae Team weighs only two pounds more than an Aero and has equal or
> better quality components. My Volae Team costs about $1,000 less than an
> Aero. In addition, the 6% sales tax on the no-mail-order Aero adds another
> $250. The Volae Team goes as fast as I can make it go, which is faster ...
> for me ... than any of the other six high quality recumbents I have owned.
> I'm not a racer but at age 75 keeping up with the non-racing upright members
> of the Gainesville Cycling Club is plenty good enough for me.
>
> Finally, Rolf Garthus and his entire team are absolutely first class people
> and a total pleasure to do business with. They rank right up there with the
> two other class acts in the business: John Schlitter and the Bacchetta
> folks and Gardner Martin and the Easy Racers group. All three provide
> superb customer support but Rolf has gone the extra mile for me in fine
> tuning and even volunteering to change some parts and specs on my new Volae
> Team without my even asking. Very unusual in this day and age.
>
> Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL

I have to second Bob's experience with the build quality of the Volae
(mine is a Club LX) and especially his experience with HS folks. Rolf
and co. have treated me extremely well and have provided support,
advice, and some parts swapping with absolutely no quibble. It sounds
as though Bacchetta folks are likewise providing great service and
support. Why can't people acknowledge and indeed celebrate that there
are multiple great companies to deal with out there? It's a benefit
to the entire recumbent world to have more than one first class
choice.

[Robert Siegel]

Well said and exactly my point. Sure, I'll buy an Aero if the 2nd
generation evolutionary Aero proves to be the "best" available recumbent for
me. Until then, I will ride my Volae Team ... and very happily.

Old, medium fast and not fat.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"Marc Rosenbaum" > wrote in message
om...
> "Robert Siegel" > wrote in message
>...
>
> snip
>
> > My Volae Team is an exceptionally well designed and beautifully built
> > recumbent AND Hostel Shoppe's support (and return policy) is unbeatable.
> > The Volae is a pleasure to ride, handles extremely well and is very
FAST. I
> > am 5'10", weigh 175 pounds and have not experienced ANY boom or frameset
> > "wiggle".
> >
> > The Volae Team weighs only two pounds more than an Aero and has equal or
> > better quality components. My Volae Team costs about $1,000 less than
an
> > Aero. In addition, the 6% sales tax on the no-mail-order Aero adds
another
> > $250. The Volae Team goes as fast as I can make it go, which is faster
....
> > for me ... than any of the other six high quality recumbents I have
owned.
> > I'm not a racer but at age 75 keeping up with the non-racing upright
members
> > of the Gainesville Cycling Club is plenty good enough for me.
> >
> > Finally, Rolf Garthus and his entire team are absolutely first class
people
> > and a total pleasure to do business with. They rank right up there with
the
> > two other class acts in the business: John Schlitter and the Bacchetta
> > folks and Gardner Martin and the Easy Racers group. All three provide
> > superb customer support but Rolf has gone the extra mile for me in fine
> > tuning and even volunteering to change some parts and specs on my new
Volae
> > Team without my even asking. Very unusual in this day and age.
> >
> > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
>
> I have to second Bob's experience with the build quality of the Volae
> (mine is a Club LX) and especially his experience with HS folks. Rolf
> and co. have treated me extremely well and have provided support,
> advice, and some parts swapping with absolutely no quibble. It sounds
> as though Bacchetta folks are likewise providing great service and
> support. Why can't people acknowledge and indeed celebrate that there
> are multiple great companies to deal with out there? It's a benefit
> to the entire recumbent world to have more than one first class
> choice.

[Christopher Jordan]

(nogoslow) wrote in message >...
>
> You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
> speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.
> But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
> most 'benters.

??? say what ???

I thought the fat, slow, and lazy were arguing over dinosaur remains
and oil! First I hear RANS doesn't make a trike, now I hear this! My
heart is broken. My pic is at www.catike.com (gallery) and all this
time I thought I was skinny. Optical illusion, I guess- better get
going and work off those pounds.

Sorry to interrupt; back to your Volae discussion.

Chris Jordan
Santa Cruz, CA.

[nogoslow]

>>
> 1 - Have you actually ridden a Volae? If not, your projection of its
> whippiness seem baseless.

Yes. The Aero is stiffer. The Volae is more like my old Aerocycle.

> 2 - Fatter (assume you mean larger diameter) tubes make a stiffer and
> stronger frame (reference my bachelor's thesis at MIT 1974, large
> diameter aluminum frame bike). i understood, perhaps incorectly, that
> the Aero has 2 inch diameter tubing - please correct me if the tubing
> is larger in diameter. The Volae has a 2 inch diameter steel main
> tube. If the diameters are the same, and the thickness is the same,
> the steel will be stiffer from the higher modulus of elasticity. To
> obtain the same stiffness if the two bikes both have 2 inch tubing,
> the Ti bike needs the tubing to have thicker walls. This would negate
> some if not all of the weight advantage. Typically, with metals the
> method for taking advantage of lower density materials (Ti, Al, Mg) is
> to increase tubing size while remaining at a diameter/thickness ratio
> that is above the buckling failure limit. This is because the ratio
> of density to modulus of elasticity is roughly constant for the common
> engineering metals (which is why carbon fiber works so well, it's not
> in the same ballpark). I'd love to know the tubing diameter and
> thickness of both the Aero and the Volae. Can you post the data for
> the Aero, and I'll see if I can find out the data for the Volae?

Not into the science like you but the tubes in your diffinition would
be larger in diameter.

>
> 3 - Bob stated that the Aero is 2 pounds lighter than the Team but
> since it seems clear that the stock Aero isn't really 22 pounds from
> other threads on this list I wonder what the real difference between
> the two bikes is.

Ti. The magic metal. Ride quality.

I imagine that the only way to get this data is for
> someone to weigh both the Aero and Team on the same scale, in the same
> frame size, without pedals and accessories. Anyone volunteer?

My bike is right at 22 lbs. built it from the frame up. Lots of light
stuff on bike. I think the stock Aero is around 23 lbs.

>
> 4 - Just because you are faster on an Aero than Bob or Tom or I am on
> a Volae is meaningless in the discussion as to which is a better bike

Rich and john want to build a fast bike since they ride fast bikes
and want to go faster with the design. Makes all the differance in the
world. its not meaningless. It is passion. A designer/rider is best
suited to build the best bikes.

> design. You are typifying some Bacchetta owners in your highly
> partisan statements (which are not the "truth", they are your
> opinions.) I've never seen or ridden a Bacchetta, so I can't have an
> opinion that is valid. I own a Volae Club LX. I hope to someday next
> season (I'm in NH) ride a Bachetta so at least I can get a comparative
> sense. I'm not personally invested in the brand I have chosen being
> the "best", whatever that really means.

Everything is opinion. You have yours I have mine.
>
> 5 - Implying that the designer has to be a very fast rider is silly.
> Most people in the design world (I'm a mech engr working mainly in
> buildings, not bikes) get better at design as they get older. Most
> people get slower as they age, given the same level of training. I
> suspect that there are numerous examples of top-notch sporting items
> being designed by folks that couldn't compete effectively on the
> designs they produce. It's irrelevant to judge design effectiveness
> by how much and how fast someone rides.

The Aero is made for a serious athlete. We need young uscf types into
bents. The Aero does attract them along with its heritage.
Without feed back from the rider you can do nothing.
I push these bikes to the edge with the way I ride. The Aero is better
than the Volae for this.
Build me a better bike and I will buy it.


> Marc Rosenbaum
> old and slow in NH, but not fat

[nogoslow]

(Christopher Jordan) wrote in message >...
> (nogoslow) wrote in message >...
> >
> > You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
> > speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.
> > But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
> > most 'benters.
>
> ??? say what ???
>
> I thought the fat, slow, and lazy were arguing over dinosaur remains
> and oil! First I hear RANS doesn't make a trike, now I hear this! My
> heart is broken. My pic is at www.catike.com (gallery) and all this
> time I thought I was skinny. Optical illusion, I guess- better get
> going and work off those pounds.
>
> Sorry to interrupt; back to your Volae discussion.
>
> Chris Jordan
> Santa Cruz, CA.

Hey chris,

I like trikes they are cool.
Most trike riders are not into the speed thing.

[bentbiker]

the overwhelming majority of bent riders, and even the highracers will
never race nor maximize the design. I highly doubt, any top your racers
will be on recumbents any time soon. The recumbent is seen as the dork's
bike by this elite group. Thus saying you are the fastest recumbent
rider is equivalent to saying you are the best runner at the old folks
home. Nothing wrong with being the fastest at the old folks home, but
it's all a matter of semantics and perception.

nogoslow wrote:
>>1 - Have you actually ridden a Volae? If not, your projection of its
>>whippiness seem baseless.
>
>
> Yes. The Aero is stiffer. The Volae is more like my old Aerocycle.
>
>
>>2 - Fatter (assume you mean larger diameter) tubes make a stiffer and
>>stronger frame (reference my bachelor's thesis at MIT 1974, large
>>diameter aluminum frame bike). i understood, perhaps incorectly, that
>>the Aero has 2 inch diameter tubing - please correct me if the tubing
>>is larger in diameter. The Volae has a 2 inch diameter steel main
>>tube. If the diameters are the same, and the thickness is the same,
>>the steel will be stiffer from the higher modulus of elasticity. To
>>obtain the same stiffness if the two bikes both have 2 inch tubing,
>>the Ti bike needs the tubing to have thicker walls. This would negate
>>some if not all of the weight advantage. Typically, with metals the
>>method for taking advantage of lower density materials (Ti, Al, Mg) is
>>to increase tubing size while remaining at a diameter/thickness ratio
>>that is above the buckling failure limit. This is because the ratio
>>of density to modulus of elasticity is roughly constant for the common
>>engineering metals (which is why carbon fiber works so well, it's not
>>in the same ballpark). I'd love to know the tubing diameter and
>>thickness of both the Aero and the Volae. Can you post the data for
>>the Aero, and I'll see if I can find out the data for the Volae?
>
>
> Not into the science like you but the tubes in your diffinition would
> be larger in diameter.
>
>
>>3 - Bob stated that the Aero is 2 pounds lighter than the Team but
>>since it seems clear that the stock Aero isn't really 22 pounds from
>>other threads on this list I wonder what the real difference between
>>the two bikes is.
>
>
> Ti. The magic metal. Ride quality.
>
> I imagine that the only way to get this data is for
>
>>someone to weigh both the Aero and Team on the same scale, in the same
>>frame size, without pedals and accessories. Anyone volunteer?
>
>
> My bike is right at 22 lbs. built it from the frame up. Lots of light
> stuff on bike. I think the stock Aero is around 23 lbs.
>
>
>>4 - Just because you are faster on an Aero than Bob or Tom or I am on
>>a Volae is meaningless in the discussion as to which is a better bike
>
>
> Rich and john want to build a fast bike since they ride fast bikes
> and want to go faster with the design. Makes all the differance in the
> world. its not meaningless. It is passion. A designer/rider is best
> suited to build the best bikes.
>
>
>>design. You are typifying some Bacchetta owners in your highly
>>partisan statements (which are not the "truth", they are your
>>opinions.) I've never seen or ridden a Bacchetta, so I can't have an
>>opinion that is valid. I own a Volae Club LX. I hope to someday next
>>season (I'm in NH) ride a Bachetta so at least I can get a comparative
>>sense. I'm not personally invested in the brand I have chosen being
>>the "best", whatever that really means.
>
>
> Everything is opinion. You have yours I have mine.
>
>>5 - Implying that the designer has to be a very fast rider is silly.
>>Most people in the design world (I'm a mech engr working mainly in
>>buildings, not bikes) get better at design as they get older. Most
>>people get slower as they age, given the same level of training. I
>>suspect that there are numerous examples of top-notch sporting items
>>being designed by folks that couldn't compete effectively on the
>>designs they produce. It's irrelevant to judge design effectiveness
>>by how much and how fast someone rides.
>
>
> The Aero is made for a serious athlete. We need young uscf types into
> bents. The Aero does attract them along with its heritage.
> Without feed back from the rider you can do nothing.
> I push these bikes to the edge with the way I ride. The Aero is better
> than the Volae for this.
> Build me a better bike and I will buy it.
>
>
>
>>Marc Rosenbaum
>>old and slow in NH, but not fat

[harryo]

(nogoslow) wrote in message >...
>

I am assuming your response was meant for me, even though you actually
responded to a post from bentbiker.

> You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
> speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.

I would be happy to repeat everything I said to your face, no problem.
Your thinly veiled threat is further proof of your gross immaturity
and apparent inability to carry on an objective discussion

> But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
> most 'benters.

What exactly does my age, physical condition and riding speed have to
do with the original subject of this thread, which was a request for
opinions about Volae bents from thse who own, or have ridden them?
Again, you seem to demonstrate that you are a self-centered, egotistic
snob who really doesn't care at all about any other bent riders unless
they ride your choice of bike in a manner that you decide is
acceptable. Yes, I will repeat this to your face too, if I have the
chance and feel the need to do so.

> You need to check out the Bacchetta list. Zach and Jude are regular
> contributors to that list and I might add very satisfied with there
> Aero's.

Why do I need to check it out? Again, what has it got to do with
this thread, which is about Volae bikes? Did I ever imply that Jude
and Zach were not satisfied with their Aero's?

> BTW, Zach and Jude are both bike dealers and I am sure don't like how
> Rolf is undercutting the sales that could come from there shops with
> the Volae sold over the net.
> Running a bike shop is a tough business and hard to make any money at.
> At least Bacchetta allows those shops to make a profit.

I am perfectly aware that Jude and Zach own bike shops and sell
Bacchettas. I would never be so arrogant to presume that I could
speak of their opinions of the Volae bikes. However, from their past
contributions to this newsgroup, I perceive them both as gentlemen
who, if they do have negative feelings about Volae, or any other bent
manufacturer, would enter any discussion about such with objective,
thoughtful discourse. I have certainly never heard either of them
result to bashing any brand of bent that they do not sell.

Direct mail-order and web retail sales are affecting every business,
not just bike shops. You may not like it but it is not going away.
The choice of whether one find value in a lower price or local store
service is a personal one. I would never attempt to dictate to others
which choice they should make and I expect the same in return. I
would imagine that as small business owners, Jude and Zach are
concerned about direct bent sales but again, I do not see them
resorting to competition bashing in order to compete.

> If Rolf builds a better bike than the Aero I will buy one.
> I just don't think it will come from the HS.

You appear to have already made up your mind on this and I suspect you
would feel the same, no matter what Volae builds. I never claimed
Volae built a better bike than Bacchetta, or vice versa. I said there
are attibutes of both lines that will appeal differently to different
folks.

> You want to continue this or let it die?
> It's up to you.

No, it is up to you. If you want to discuss the attributes, and
perceived shortcomings, of Volae bents, which was the original
question, then I would be happy to add my opinions. If you wish to
continue with your "Bacchetta rules! Volae sucks!" tirade, then I
will bow out. I have no intention of turning this thread into a
prolonged ****ing contest and debate, because you really would be out
of your league and I'm sure the majority of this group's readers don't
want to read it. IMO, you have already done quite an admirable job of
destroying any credibility you might have had.

Harry

[bentbiker]

well said Harry, I didn't really care if he was referring to me. While
his support of Bachetta is admirable, he's probably turning off people
to the company he supports by his technique. As a wise man once told me,
"be smarter than to get into a ****ing contest with a skunk" BTW I still
think the Volaa is better looking :-)

harryo wrote:
> (nogoslow) wrote in message >...
>
>
> I am assuming your response was meant for me, even though you actually
> responded to a post from bentbiker.
>
>
>>You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
>>speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.
>
>
> I would be happy to repeat everything I said to your face, no problem.
> Your thinly veiled threat is further proof of your gross immaturity
> and apparent inability to carry on an objective discussion
>
>
>>But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
>>most 'benters.
>
>
> What exactly does my age, physical condition and riding speed have to
> do with the original subject of this thread, which was a request for
> opinions about Volae bents from thse who own, or have ridden them?
> Again, you seem to demonstrate that you are a self-centered, egotistic
> snob who really doesn't care at all about any other bent riders unless
> they ride your choice of bike in a manner that you decide is
> acceptable. Yes, I will repeat this to your face too, if I have the
> chance and feel the need to do so.
>
>
>>You need to check out the Bacchetta list. Zach and Jude are regular
>>contributors to that list and I might add very satisfied with there
>>Aero's.
>
>
> Why do I need to check it out? Again, what has it got to do with
> this thread, which is about Volae bikes? Did I ever imply that Jude
> and Zach were not satisfied with their Aero's?
>
>
>>BTW, Zach and Jude are both bike dealers and I am sure don't like how
>>Rolf is undercutting the sales that could come from there shops with
>>the Volae sold over the net.
>>Running a bike shop is a tough business and hard to make any money at.
>>At least Bacchetta allows those shops to make a profit.
>
>
> I am perfectly aware that Jude and Zach own bike shops and sell
> Bacchettas. I would never be so arrogant to presume that I could
> speak of their opinions of the Volae bikes. However, from their past
> contributions to this newsgroup, I perceive them both as gentlemen
> who, if they do have negative feelings about Volae, or any other bent
> manufacturer, would enter any discussion about such with objective,
> thoughtful discourse. I have certainly never heard either of them
> result to bashing any brand of bent that they do not sell.
>
> Direct mail-order and web retail sales are affecting every business,
> not just bike shops. You may not like it but it is not going away.
> The choice of whether one find value in a lower price or local store
> service is a personal one. I would never attempt to dictate to others
> which choice they should make and I expect the same in return. I
> would imagine that as small business owners, Jude and Zach are
> concerned about direct bent sales but again, I do not see them
> resorting to competition bashing in order to compete.
>
>
>>If Rolf builds a better bike than the Aero I will buy one.
>>I just don't think it will come from the HS.
>
>
> You appear to have already made up your mind on this and I suspect you
> would feel the same, no matter what Volae builds. I never claimed
> Volae built a better bike than Bacchetta, or vice versa. I said there
> are attibutes of both lines that will appeal differently to different
> folks.
>
>
>>You want to continue this or let it die?
>>It's up to you.
>
>
> No, it is up to you. If you want to discuss the attributes, and
> perceived shortcomings, of Volae bents, which was the original
> question, then I would be happy to add my opinions. If you wish to
> continue with your "Bacchetta rules! Volae sucks!" tirade, then I
> will bow out. I have no intention of turning this thread into a
> prolonged ****ing contest and debate, because you really would be out
> of your league and I'm sure the majority of this group's readers don't
> want to read it. IMO, you have already done quite an admirable job of
> destroying any credibility you might have had.
>
> Harry

[nogoslow]

(harryo) wrote in message >...
> (nogoslow) wrote in message >...
> >
>
> I am assuming your response was meant for me, even though you actually
> responded to a post from bentbiker.
>
> > You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. I doubt you would
> > speak to me that way face to face. You would have a problem.
>
> I would be happy to repeat everything I said to your face, no problem.
> Your thinly veiled threat is further proof of your gross immaturity
> and apparent inability to carry on an objective discussion
>
> > But hey it is the net after all. Let me guess, old fat and slow like
> > most 'benters.
>
> What exactly does my age, physical condition and riding speed have to
> do with the original subject of this thread, which was a request for
> opinions about Volae bents from thse who own, or have ridden them?
> Again, you seem to demonstrate that you are a self-centered, egotistic
> snob who really doesn't care at all about any other bent riders unless
> they ride your choice of bike in a manner that you decide is
> acceptable. Yes, I will repeat this to your face too, if I have the
> chance and feel the need to do so.
>
> > You need to check out the Bacchetta list. Zach and Jude are regular
> > contributors to that list and I might add very satisfied with there
> > Aero's.
>
> Why do I need to check it out? Again, what has it got to do with
> this thread, which is about Volae bikes? Did I ever imply that Jude
> and Zach were not satisfied with their Aero's?
>
> > BTW, Zach and Jude are both bike dealers and I am sure don't like how
> > Rolf is undercutting the sales that could come from there shops with
> > the Volae sold over the net.
> > Running a bike shop is a tough business and hard to make any money at.
> > At least Bacchetta allows those shops to make a profit.
>
> I am perfectly aware that Jude and Zach own bike shops and sell
> Bacchettas. I would never be so arrogant to presume that I could
> speak of their opinions of the Volae bikes. However, from their past
> contributions to this newsgroup, I perceive them both as gentlemen
> who, if they do have negative feelings about Volae, or any other bent
> manufacturer, would enter any discussion about such with objective,
> thoughtful discourse. I have certainly never heard either of them
> result to bashing any brand of bent that they do not sell.
>
> Direct mail-order and web retail sales are affecting every business,
> not just bike shops. You may not like it but it is not going away.
> The choice of whether one find value in a lower price or local store
> service is a personal one. I would never attempt to dictate to others
> which choice they should make and I expect the same in return. I
> would imagine that as small business owners, Jude and Zach are
> concerned about direct bent sales but again, I do not see them
> resorting to competition bashing in order to compete.
>
> > If Rolf builds a better bike than the Aero I will buy one.
> > I just don't think it will come from the HS.
>
> You appear to have already made up your mind on this and I suspect you
> would feel the same, no matter what Volae builds. I never claimed
> Volae built a better bike than Bacchetta, or vice versa. I said there
> are attibutes of both lines that will appeal differently to different
> folks.
>
> > You want to continue this or let it die?
> > It's up to you.
>
> No, it is up to you. If you want to discuss the attributes, and
> perceived shortcomings, of Volae bents, which was the original
> question, then I would be happy to add my opinions. If you wish to
> continue with your "Bacchetta rules! Volae sucks!" tirade, then I
> will bow out. I have no intention of turning this thread into a
> prolonged ****ing contest and debate, because you really would be out
> of your league and I'm sure the majority of this group's readers don't
> want to read it. IMO, you have already done quite an admirable job of
> destroying any credibility you might have had.
>
> Harry

Fine by me Harry,
But I do think there was a discussion in this thread about the merits
of the bikes. We just have different opinions on which one is better.
If anyone wants a volae they are certianly free to buy one.
It just won't do for a serious athelete pushing a bike to its limits.
As far as customer service the HS will do fine in this area. They have
a fine well established business. No problems with that. The Aero is
still the best dual 26 bike on the market. I am sure Bentrider will
have a review of the Volae sometime soon and we will get Bryan Balls
opinion. I am confidant he will say that it is a good value but the
Aero is faster and a better over all bike.
Like I said build me a better bike than the Aero and I will buy it.
I am quite sure that if my opinions were really off base Dave
larrinton (whom I have much respect for) Would certianly have said if
I was full of BS. He knows of the kingcycle and that great dual 26
lowracer his young lad rides. My opinion is based on much experiance.
I have been doing ultras on bents for 5 years and am sure few riders
have logged as many miles as I have on a performane Bent.
Please, build me a better bent. I will ride it.
I think the next great bike will still come from Bacchetta. At least a
bike for my needs.

[nogoslow]

bentbiker > wrote in message >...
> the overwhelming majority of bent riders, and even the highracers will
> never race nor maximize the design. I highly doubt, any top your racers
> will be on recumbents any time soon. The recumbent is seen as the dork's
> bike by this elite group. Thus saying you are the fastest recumbent
> rider is equivalent to saying you are the best runner at the old folks
> home. Nothing wrong with being the fastest at the old folks home, but
> it's all a matter of semantics and perception.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble but we have a few realy fast Cat 1
and 2 racers on Aero's in my circle of riders.
They ride both. I ride both DF and Bent also.
The elite group is off the back when the Aero's with fast riders on
them put the hammer down.
Bents are banned from USCF competition last time I checked.
Go to monkey island. The big debate is the UCI's overtures to the bent
racing world to bring us back to the fold and the idea of a stock
class for racing with much more rules on what will be allowed.
Fine young riders will come to our sport eventually. The Aero really
attracts these young guys attention. They relate to the carbon and Ti
and the big wheels.
In short a bike like there's.
I can tell you from experiance that riding a bent is good for my DF
riding. I use the DF for cross training but uscf racers gain buy
riding a bent for there upright performance. Since going bent my
seated climbing on my upright is better than ever.

[Jack Davis]

Dear Mr. NoGo...,

You happen to equate "quality" with speed. That is a rather narrow
concept.

I happen to equate quality with comfort, styling, value, and other such
things which leaves speed near the bottom of the list.

You do have the zeal of a new convert....use it for your enjoyment but not
for the criticism of others that do not share your view.

Regardless of brand it is just a bike after all .....

Jack Davis
RANS Rider


"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
> >
> > Well ... now you' can learn something:
> > Rolf Garthus, owner of Hostel Shoppe and Volae, has a passion for
> > recumbents, trust me! He rides recumbents a LOT during the Wisconsin
> > riding season.
> > I just bought Rolf's personal 2003 Volae Team, ridden for a half season
for
> > about 1000 miles.
> >
> > Keep on riding!
> >
> > Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Rich Pinto and John Schlitter are not just bike builders but two of
> the fastest riders in the bent world today.
> I have a different meaning for the word "passion" than you do.
> This is not just "riding a lot" but riding a lot very fast and the
> bike is designed for that purpose.
> Most bents are a joke for serious riders.
> Bacchetta expected copys and clones and I am sure that this will
> continue.
> Can't stop that. It speaks to Bacchetta's great design! That
> simplicity makes it easier for others to build similar bikes. But I am
> sure they will remain leaders in the industry. After all competition
> is good for the consumer.
> Check out Denny's Bacchetta list.
>

[nogoslow]

"Jack Davis" > wrote in message m>...
> Dear Mr. NoGo...,
>
> You happen to equate "quality" with speed. That is a rather narrow
> concept.
>
> I happen to equate quality with comfort, styling, value, and other such
> things which leaves speed near the bottom of the list.
>
> You do have the zeal of a new convert....use it for your enjoyment but not
> for the criticism of others that do not share your view.
>
> Regardless of brand it is just a bike after all .....
>
> Jack Davis
> RANS Rider


Bacchetta is Rans.
John Schlitter designed the bike you ride and is a speed oriented
rider.
You display your ignorance.
I am not a new convert.
I am glad you enjoy your bike even if you ride slow.
I ride fast and want a fast machine. So what?
Recumbent equates to old fat and slow. That is what I see on the road.
And thats ok at least you ride.
I am on my DF a lot more than my bent lately. I like the company it
attracts better. I ride that bike fast to.
Fast is bad, slow is good in your way of thinking.

[Jack Davis]

"nogoslow" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jack Davis" > wrote in message
m>...
> > Dear Mr. NoGo...,
> >
> > You happen to equate "quality" with speed. That is a rather narrow
> > concept.
> >
> > I happen to equate quality with comfort, styling, value, and other such
> > things which leaves speed near the bottom of the list.
> >
> > You do have the zeal of a new convert....use it for your enjoyment but
not
> > for the criticism of others that do not share your view.
> >
> > Regardless of brand it is just a bike after all .....
> >
> > Jack Davis
> > RANS Rider
>
>
> Bacchetta is Rans.
> John Schlitter designed the bike you ride and is a speed oriented
> rider.
> You display your ignorance.
> I am not a new convert.
> I am glad you enjoy your bike even if you ride slow.
> I ride fast and want a fast machine. So what?
> Recumbent equates to old fat and slow. That is what I see on the road.
> And thats ok at least you ride.
> I am on my DF a lot more than my bent lately. I like the company it
> attracts better. I ride that bike fast to.
> Fast is bad, slow is good in your way of thinking.

Thank you for your reply.

You will be pleased to know that I am old, fat, and, (compared to you.)
slow. So is my wife who has had both knees replaced with stainless steel and
titanium. (a favorite metal of many bike riders.), and I was a little faster
before my open-heart surgery. But that, and a 75 mph crash on my motorcycle,
did slow me down a bit. So I guess our example supports your theory of
recumbent riders, but we have a wonderful time cruising the trails and
roads at our own pace.

Eventually you may be old ,and slow too. Maybe then we will be able to ride
together.....I"m sure it will be will be enjoyable for all of us. In the
meantime maybe you can ride with our son. He too doesn't like being passed
so he gave up his DF for a 'bent and he loves it.

Have fun on whatever you ride...

JD



JD

[Steve Christensen]

In article >, nogoslow says...
>
>"Jack Davis" > wrote in message
m>...
>> Dear Mr. NoGo...,
>>
>> You happen to equate "quality" with speed. That is a rather narrow
>> concept.
>>
>> I happen to equate quality with comfort, styling, value, and other such
>> things which leaves speed near the bottom of the list.
>>
>> You do have the zeal of a new convert....use it for your enjoyment but not
>> for the criticism of others that do not share your view.
>>
>> Regardless of brand it is just a bike after all .....
>>
>> Jack Davis
>> RANS Rider
>
>
>Bacchetta is Rans.
>John Schlitter designed the bike you ride and is a speed oriented
>rider.
>You display your ignorance.
>I am not a new convert.
>I am glad you enjoy your bike even if you ride slow.
>I ride fast and want a fast machine. So what?
>Recumbent equates to old fat and slow. That is what I see on the road.
>And thats ok at least you ride.
>I am on my DF a lot more than my bent lately. I like the company it
>attracts better. I ride that bike fast to.
>Fast is bad, slow is good in your way of thinking.


It's pretty clear by now that "nogoslow" is so insecure that he feels the need
to not only brag about his bike, but to insist that HIS bike is the best, the
only best, and that everything else is a tired, slow, heavy, copy, that can not
possibly measure up to HIS idea of perfection.

So can we just agree he is a troll on this subject, and quit feeding him?

Steve Christensen

[Jack Davis]

"Steve Christensen" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, nogoslow
says...
> >
> >"Jack Davis" > wrote in message
> m>...
> >> Dear Mr. NoGo...,
> >>
> >> You happen to equate "quality" with speed. That is a rather narrow
> >> concept.
> >>
> >> I happen to equate quality with comfort, styling, value, and other such
> >> things which leaves speed near the bottom of the list.
> >>
> >> You do have the zeal of a new convert....use it for your enjoyment but
not
> >> for the criticism of others that do not share your view.
> >>
> >> Regardless of brand it is just a bike after all .....
> >>
> >> Jack Davis
> >> RANS Rider
> >
> >
> >Bacchetta is Rans.
> >John Schlitter designed the bike you ride and is a speed oriented
> >rider.
> >You display your ignorance.
> >I am not a new convert.
> >I am glad you enjoy your bike even if you ride slow.
> >I ride fast and want a fast machine. So what?
> >Recumbent equates to old fat and slow. That is what I see on the road.
> >And thats ok at least you ride.
> >I am on my DF a lot more than my bent lately. I like the company it
> >attracts better. I ride that bike fast to.
> >Fast is bad, slow is good in your way of thinking.
>
>
> It's pretty clear by now that "nogoslow" is so insecure that he feels the
need
> to not only brag about his bike, but to insist that HIS bike is the best,
the
> only best, and that everything else is a tired, slow, heavy, copy, that
can not
> possibly measure up to HIS idea of perfection.
>
> So can we just agree he is a troll on this subject, and quit feeding him?
>
> Steve Christensen
>

Steve,

You may be right but sometimes "feeding" can help one grow.

Ride on....
jd

[nogoslow]

> It's pretty clear by now that "nogoslow" is so insecure that he feels the need
> to not only brag about his bike, but to insist that HIS bike is the best, the
> only best, and that everything else is a tired, slow, heavy, copy, that can not
> possibly measure up to HIS idea of perfection.
>
> So can we just agree he is a troll on this subject, and quit feeding him?
>
> Steve Christensen

And another old fat and slow rider.
Ole Volae!
Fat slow and old and probably a beard to.
Correct?
BTW, RANS is a great company. Like there bikes.

[bentbiker]

I'll bet the boys at Bachetta cringe every time you post, as the vast
majority of bikes they sell are to "old slow fat guys" who want to go
faster.


>
>
> And another old fat and slow rider.
> Ole Volae!
> Fat slow and old and probably a beard to.
> Correct?
> BTW, RANS is a great company. Like there bikes.

[nogoslow]

bentbiker > wrote in message >...
> I'll bet the boys at Bachetta cringe every time you post, as the vast
> majority of bikes they sell are to "old slow fat guys" who want to go
> faster.
>
>
> >
> >
> > And another old fat and slow rider.
> > Ole Volae!
> > Fat slow and old and probably a beard to.
> > Correct?
> > BTW, RANS is a great company. Like there bikes.

You really need to take a pill.
Way to serious. It is just a bike.
I ride the DF more than the bent anyway so I could care less what you
think of me or Bacchetta. Why are you posting? Who cares. let it die.