Recumbent Urination

[Bob Slebodnik]

Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.

Sincerely,

Bob

[[email protected]]

Bob Slebodnik > wrote:
: Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
: phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
: urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
: recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
: recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
: that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.

I have had some similar experiences, at least initially. Is your
seat too far forward? I thought it might have something to do with
pressure against your bladder (eg. from thighs moving closer) but
just as likely could be that your bladder has been conditioned to
upright riding... though 6000 miles might be enough for
reconditioning?

The 100% faired M5 low racer has an onboard rest room too...

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

[Tom Sherman]

Bob Slebodnik wrote:
> ... As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it....

Lack of proper capitalization?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Ian]

Tom Sherman scribed with passion and wit:

>
> Bob Slebodnik wrote:
>> ... As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
>> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
>> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
>> anyone knows what causes it....
>
> Lack of proper capitalization?
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
Are you guys taking the p*ss?

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Denny Voorhees]

I've noticed it also. When I first went over to the Vrex from a BikeE, it
was URGENT urination. I applied the rule that "anywhere can be a bathroom",
many times.
The problem has pretty much gone away after the first year with the 'Rex. I
now ride a Giro. I do believe there is a more frequent urination thing
happening. It is not of the URGENT nature I experienced that first season on
the Vrex, more than 10,000 miles ago.
I think it may be due to the SWB, perhaps having the legs higher is a
contributor. Then again maybe its just old age manifesting itself in some
new and exciting way..
Denny in Sayre, Pa
"Bent but not Broken"

"Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
om...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

[Dennis Tresenriter]

I had noticed this while riding my VRex but just thought it was me
since my plumbing is a little screwed up. Then a fellow bent rider
mentioned to me that no matter how many times he urinates, he has to
go again within 10-20 minutes of riding his Lightning, something he
never had trouble with on his upright. Must be common.

-Dennis Tresenriter
Central Illinois

On 27 Nov 2003 14:00:13 -0800, (Bob Slebodnik)
wrote:

>Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
>phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
>urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
>recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
>recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
>that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.

[bentbiker]

you might be on to something Denny, I do think it has something to do
with the legs churning higher up, for me though, it brings on the old
#2! I'm real careful not to eat right before riding now.

Denny Voorhees wrote:
> I've noticed it also. When I first went over to the Vrex from a BikeE, it
> was URGENT urination. I applied the rule that "anywhere can be a bathroom",
> many times.
> The problem has pretty much gone away after the first year with the 'Rex. I
> now ride a Giro. I do believe there is a more frequent urination thing
> happening. It is not of the URGENT nature I experienced that first season on
> the Vrex, more than 10,000 miles ago.
> I think it may be due to the SWB, perhaps having the legs higher is a
> contributor. Then again maybe its just old age manifesting itself in some
> new and exciting way..
> Denny in Sayre, Pa
> "Bent but not Broken"
>
> "Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
>>phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
>>urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
>>recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
>>recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
>>that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
>>Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
>>I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
>>riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
>>I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
>>prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
>>Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
>>interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
>>anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Bob
>
>
>

[Frank P. Patterson]

Bob Slebodnik wrote:
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

From the first time I rode a recumbent I appreciated the fact that I
could ride much more comfortably and farther than on a df once the
'need' manifested itself. So many benefits accrued to the change over.
More importantly to me and those dfs near me, my runny nose problem went
away too.

[Bent Pedals]

On 27 Nov 2003 14:00:13 -0800, (Bob Slebodnik)
wrote:

>Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
>phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
>urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
>recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
>recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
>that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.

Grin, there's a good number of trees and fence posts east of
Toronto that have been "watered" this autumn.

Picked up my first bent in early September and actually
visited the doctor in the latter part of October with concerns about
this very problem. While he couldn't/wouldn't specify the whys and
wherefores, he assured me I was healthy in the plumbing department,
at least operationly, and to keep up with the watering campaign, it
was doing the rest of my body good.

Interesting to see so many posts confirming the same result in
many others as well . . . is it an affliction that we'll work our way
through, as suggested in other responses? Grin, I certainly hope so,
with the cold weather setting in, I can't afford any amount of cold
air contraction in that region.

[Mikael Seierup]

"Frank P. Patterson" skrev

> From the first time I rode a recumbent I appreciated the fact that I
> could ride much more comfortably and farther than on a df once the
> 'need' manifested itself. So many benefits accrued to the change over.
> More importantly to me and those dfs near me, my runny nose problem went
> away too.

Maybe thats it. We don't loose fluids nasally and by spitting all the time
so it has to go somewhere else. ;-)
Now I've tried this too. I think the position makes it harder to ignore
the urges so to speak. It can be done but not to the same extent as on a DF.

Mikael

[harv]

"Bent Pedals" > wrote in message
...
> On 27 Nov 2003 14:00:13 -0800, (Bob Slebodnik)
> wrote:
>
> >Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> >phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> >urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> >recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> >recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> >that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
>
> Grin, there's a good number of trees and fence posts east of
> Toronto that have been "watered" this autumn.
>
> Picked up my first bent in early September and actually
> visited the doctor in the latter part of October with concerns about
> this very problem. While he couldn't/wouldn't specify the whys and
> wherefores, he assured me I was healthy in the plumbing department,
> at least operationly, and to keep up with the watering campaign, it
> was doing the rest of my body good.
>
> Interesting to see so many posts confirming the same result in
> many others as well . . . is it an affliction that we'll work our way
> through, as suggested in other responses? Grin, I certainly hope so,
> with the cold weather setting in, I can't afford any amount of cold
> air contraction in that region.
>
We've heard of recumbutt, I guess this is a case of recumbladder. After all,
on a bent you don't have your body weight smashing your urethra against a
tiny saddle.

[Torben Scheel]

"Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
om...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.

Just to be the exception - I never have had problems with this.
--
Torben
webmaster @ www.hpv-klub.dk
Evita II SWB, Custom Challenge Focus Sport *Acrofobia*

[Larry Raphael]

Bob.

My thought is that on an upright bike, you basically have pressure
sitting on your valve and that may help stifle the need to go. Some of
the suggestions others have mentioned may help but for some, there may
be other factors that are also working on them -

Recumbent riders tend to be older riders (not all) and older riders
also have more issues with urination as they get older. So...there's
that one. Then another possible issue for a very few is again one that
effects somewhat older riders. Some of us tend to develop high blood
pressure and if that's the case, then sometimes the medications that
are used may make a person need to urinate more often. For example, a
diuretic (water pill) results in more water passing out of the body
and so that can effect urination habits a "wee" bit. LOL

If that applies (using a duretic) and it's a long shot since for many
this won't apply, there are many optional ways of dealing with this.

Larry Raphael
Barcroft Dakota #002, Metallic Blue
Oakton, VA

[Ian]

Torben Scheel scribed with passion and wit:

> "Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
> om...
>> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
>> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
>> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
>> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
>> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
>> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
>> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
>> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
>> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
>> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
>> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
>> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
>> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
>> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Just to be the exception - I never have had problems with this.
Me neither, must be a Septic problem.
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Joao de Souza]

Bob Slebodnik wrote:
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent

I noticed that on my very first recumbent ride. I even mentioned it on
my loooong report to the MARS mailing list (see
http://list.marsride.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0009&L=bent&F=lf&S=&P=12473)

And yes, it still happens. I have to control my fluid intake a lot more
carefully when riding a bent.

[GreyFx2]

>
>
>you might be on to something Denny, I do think it has something to do
>with the legs churning higher up, for me though, it brings on the old
>#2! I'm real careful not to eat right before riding now.
>
>Denny Voorhees wrote:
>> I've noticed it also. When I first went over to the Vrex from a BikeE, it
>> was URGENT urination. I applied the rule that "anywhere can be a bathroom",
>> many times.
>> The problem has pretty much gone away after the first year with the 'Rex. I
>> now ride a Giro. I do believe there is a more frequent urination thing
>> happening. It is not of the URGENT nature I experienced that first season
>on
>> the Vrex, more than 10,000 miles ago.
>> I think it may be due to the SWB, perhaps having the legs higher is a
>> contributor. Then again maybe its just old age manifesting itself in some
>> new and exciting way..
>> Denny in Sayre, Pa
>> "Bent but not Broken"
>>
>> "Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>
>>>Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
>>>phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
>>>urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
>>>recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
>>>recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
>>>that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
>>>Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
>>>I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
>>>riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
>>>I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
>>>prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
>>>Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
>>>interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
>>>anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>
>>>Bob
>>

I had the same problem here beginning with switch from DF to bent. Sadly it
continues after 4 years of recumbent riding.

A possible cause: my wife (a nurse) says that when people (especially older
people, and especially those with ANY circulation issues) lie down, the fluid
that has collected in their legs and feet is now redistributed via bloodstream
into kidneys. For me this is supported anecdotally by the fact that, when I
ride later in the day, after a day on my feet, I can generally not ride as far
between stops.

For me, caffeine also is a MAJOR factor in the distance ridden v pitstops
equation, so when touring I NEVER have caffeine for breakfast, and am able to
make it comfortably between SAGs.

[Mikael Seierup]

"GreyFx2" skrev

> For me, caffeine also is a MAJOR factor in the distance ridden v pitstops
> equation, so when touring I NEVER have caffeine for breakfast, and am able to
> make it comfortably between SAGs.

Well, I'm neither old or ailing but the 2 huge mugs of tea it takes to wake me up
in the morning might have something to do with it. ;-)

M.

[John]

One of the reasons I tried out a recumbent was because of frequent
urination on a df. I found out that the problem was worse, but
everything else was so much better that I've never gone back. John

[S. Delaire \Rotatorrecumbent\]

Exercise causes the blood to pass thru all the filters in the body at a
higher rate.
This is a benefit of exercise.
Same thing happens to me when I raise the heart rate for an extended
period of time for any type of exercise. Running, jumping rope, swimming,
etc. .
Not unique to recumbents.
Speedy

Bob Slebodnik wrote:

> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob



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[Joao de Souza]

S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent" wrote:

> Exercise causes the blood to pass thru all the filters in the body at a
> higher rate.
> This is a benefit of exercise.
> Same thing happens to me when I raise the heart rate for an extended
> period of time for any type of exercise. Running, jumping rope, swimming,
> etc. .
> Not unique to recumbents.

With me it is quite escalated when on a recumbent. I've been riding for
well over 30 years, used to race BMX in the 70/80's, and MTB in the
90's, and have done a lot of endurance sports. Never had that problem
quite to the same extend as when riding a bent.

[J.Davis]

"Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
om...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

Do you suppose there might be a way to use a hydration pack hooked up in
sort of a reverse fashion to increase the range between stops?

Frequent stopper,
jd

[Denny Voorhees]

">
> Do you suppose there might be a way to use a hydration pack hooked up in
> sort of a reverse fashion to increase the range between stops?
>
> Frequent stopper,
> jd

I've thought about that on a number of uncomfortable occasions. My big
concern is that I would get confused
Denny in Sayre, Pa
"Bent but not Broken"

[Tom Sherman]

"J.Davis" wrote:
>
> Do you suppose there might be a way to use a hydration pack hooked up in
> sort of a reverse fashion to increase the range between stops?...

See <http://www.stadiumpal.com/>. For disposal of waste without
stopping, see
<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=/Aircraft/Accessories/ReliefTube.html>.
This device "Provides suction to outlet tubes and horn for ejection."

There was a long discussion on this topic on a.r.b.r. several years ago.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Dean Arthur]

Early biplane-era pilots had similar problem. Solved by fitting a bit
of tubing alongside seat and exiting the rear end.

Earliest airborne version of "golden showers." HI HI!

[Eddie H]

Another health benefit of bents - regularity!
No fiber supplements necessary.
Bent-a-mucil.

bentbiker > wrote in message >...
> you might be on to something Denny, I do think it has something to do
> with the legs churning higher up, for me though, it brings on the old
> #2! I'm real careful not to eat right before riding now.
>
> Denny Voorhees wrote:
> > I've noticed it also. When I first went over to the Vrex from a BikeE, it
> > was URGENT urination. I applied the rule that "anywhere can be a bathroom",
> > many times.
> > The problem has pretty much gone away after the first year with the 'Rex. I
> > now ride a Giro. I do believe there is a more frequent urination thing
> > happening. It is not of the URGENT nature I experienced that first season on
> > the Vrex, more than 10,000 miles ago.
> > I think it may be due to the SWB, perhaps having the legs higher is a
> > contributor. Then again maybe its just old age manifesting itself in some
> > new and exciting way..
> > Denny in Sayre, Pa
> > "Bent but not Broken"
> >
> > "Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
> > om...
> >
> >>Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> >>phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> >>urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> >>recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> >>recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> >>that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> >>Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> >>I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> >>riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> >>I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> >>prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> >>Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> >>interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> >>anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Bob
> >
> >
> >

[Mikael Seierup]

"Tom Sherman" skrev...
> See <http://www.stadiumpal.com/>. For disposal of waste without
> stopping, see
>
<http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=/Aircraft/Accessories/ReliefTube.h
tml>.
> This device "Provides suction to outlet tubes and horn for ejection."

We had something similar in some of the older polish gliders
when I flew those. A rubber cup and a hose leading outside.
Once one of the pilots had flown a long time and had too much coffee
and decided to use this excellent system. I guess he forgot it in the preflight
check tho cause the tube was blocked. So he had to balance
the cup and contents all the way back to the field and while landing.

Beats the one who flew a more modern type where you were recumbent
in a sort of plastic tub. He had really to go and eventually he couldn't hold
it back anymore and the tub ensured it soaked his back.
He then landed out on a field somewhere and the farmer comes up and
chats with him. At some point the farmer then remarks "Wow, you sure
sweat a lot in those things." To which the poor pilot had to mumble some
affirmative noises.

M.

[Gene Cosloy]

Joao de Souza > wrote in message >...
> Bob Slebodnik wrote:
> > Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> > phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> > urination while riding a recumbent
>
> I noticed that on my very first recumbent ride. I even mentioned it on
> my loooong report to the MARS mailing list (see
> http://list.marsride.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0009&L=bent&F=lf&S=&P=12473)
>
> And yes, it still happens. I have to control my fluid intake a lot more
> carefully when riding a bent.

Yes I too have experienced the same phenomenon: need to releive myself
after less than an hour of riding. Raises a question about the need
for a new product I dub the "Camel Front". You have your Camel Back
for hydration, and now the Camel Front for dehydration. The problem
with just relieving yourself in the woods or on some lonely back road
is: your never sure if and when someone with a small child will wiz by
and have you arrested for wiz-ing in public. I know it sounds paranoid
but stranger things have happened.
I usually kayak once a week, if the weather is not too cold and solve
the problem with a wide mouth Coleman plastic camp bottle. With the
spray skirt on , who's to know? We need something analagous for the
bent experience!

Gene

[Tom Sherman]

Gene Cosloy wrote:
>
> Yes I too have experienced the same phenomenon: need to releive myself
> after less than an hour of riding. Raises a question about the need
> for a new product I dub the "Camel Front". You have your Camel Back
> for hydration, and now the Camel Front for dehydration....

Catheter/collection bag devices are available commercially.

> The problem
> with just relieving yourself in the woods or on some lonely back road
> is: your never sure if and when someone with a small child will wiz by
> and have you arrested for wiz-ing in public. I know it sounds paranoid
> but stranger things have happened....

At my old cycling club, one member used to sing arias while relieving
himself. One time while doing so at a very small rural park, a young
adolescent girl happened to ride by. He had his back to the road, but I
believe that she understood what was happening. ;)

> I usually kayak once a week, if the weather is not too cold and solve
> the problem with a wide mouth Coleman plastic camp bottle. With the
> spray skirt on , who's to know? We need something analagous for the
> bent experience!

A bodysock or a hard-shell fairing would provide sufficient privacy.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Mikael Seierup]

"Gene Cosloy" skrev...
> Yes I too have experienced the same phenomenon: need to releive myself
> after less than an hour of riding. Raises a question about the need
> for a new product I dub the "Camel Front". You have your Camel Back
> for hydration, and now the Camel Front for dehydration.

Better make the two tubes _very_ easy to tell apart. ;-)

M

[Dan Burkhart]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and have never posted before. This
one interested me because I thought all along it was just me. I am 50
years old, have no prostrate or urination issues. That is untill I get
on my Quetzal recumbent then it seems I have to go all the time. I do
drink a lot of water while riding, ( I'll empty a 100 oz camelback a
couple of times on a 90 k ride) but I drink a lot of water at other
times too. ( Always have, I'm not diabetic or anything) Definitly
something about the riding position



--

[Ian]

Mikael Seierup scribed with passion and wit:

>
> "Gene Cosloy" skrev...
>> Yes I too have experienced the same phenomenon: need to releive myself
>> after less than an hour of riding. Raises a question about the need
>> for a new product I dub the "Camel Front". You have your Camel Back
>> for hydration, and now the Camel Front for dehydration.
>
> Better make the two tubes _very_ easy to tell apart. ;-)
>
> M
So who here is prepared to shove a tube up their japseye and into their
bladder before a ride?
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[[email protected]]

John > wrote:
: One of the reasons I tried out a recumbent was because of frequent
: urination on a df. I found out that the problem was worse, but
: everything else was so much better that I've never gone back. John

Maybe one has to just find the sweet spot for fluid balance? Take
regular sips of fluid, maybe something like a half mouthful every
second km or so... easy with a bladder-style hydration system.
Experiment and see what's best for you...

The conclusion could be that one just has to pay more attention to
it on a bent. Last summer I rode 100 km (and the same route back
next day), and I didn't experience it as a problem, though I
probably stopped slightly more frequently than with the upright.
Earlier in the summer I could ride for two hours straight on the
upright with no need for a stop (as part of a longer ride) - comes
from training/experience.

A rule of thumb states that if your pee is colourless, you are
properly hydrated. When we reach that state we could slightly
decrease the amount of hydration and see if that works well. Also
note that riding in cold weather could reduce sweating and
increase urination - less drinking needed for the balance...

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

[TBRADSTER]

Sorry, fellas, this one seems like you could chalk it up to that middle-aged
thing along with a big dose of "the older I get the better I was."

About the same for me on an upright or recumbent.

Brad.

[[email protected]]

Gene Cosloy > wrote:
: for hydration, and now the Camel Front for dehydration. The problem
: with just relieving yourself in the woods or on some lonely back road
: is: your never sure if and when someone with a small child will wiz by
: and have you arrested for wiz-ing in public. I know it sounds paranoid
: but stranger things have happened.

Hmm, many people who tour by car have the same problem, though
dunno if it's really a problem, could be rather culture dependent?

On roads I stagger some meters into the woods/ditch to have at
least some privacy... our roads often tend to have some traffic.
Even if you are riding flat practically woodless Dutch
countryside, there probably is some suitable place (I wonder how
Central European land owners would feel about somebody urinating
on their land though?), and those can be found in our nearly urban
settings too, though not that easily (another good argument for
having some woods in the city).

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

[Dom]

Bob.Thanks for the post. I have been wondering about the same issue
and thought it might just be me. I find that on the bent after about
15miles or so, I have to pee so bad it just can't wait (on my usual
route I have a particular rock I stop by over the past year to go and
I'm not sure but I think it has grown and inch or so). I notice that
on cold days (last couple of rides) it seems to happen in less miles.
And it doesn't matter that I go twice before I ride to try and get it
all out. On DF I have never had nor do I have this problem. In fact I
can even overcome it on the DF but no the bent. Of course the down
side is I don't drink as much, hoping that the urge won't come. I know
it's not old age, my plumbing works fine and I don't take any
medication. So my thinking is it has to be bent related. Sure would be
interesting to get an expert opinion on the matter. Is there a doctor
in the house? Dom.


(Bob Slebodnik) wrote in message >...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

[rorschandt]

Dan Burkhart > wrote in
:

> Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and have never posted before. This
> one interested me because I thought all along it was just me. I am 50
> years old, have no prostrate or urination issues. That is untill I get
> on my Quetzal recumbent then it seems I have to go all the time. I do
> drink a lot of water while riding, ( I'll empty a 100 oz camelback a
> couple of times on a 90 k ride) but I drink a lot of water at other
> times too. ( Always have, I'm not diabetic or anything) Definitly
> something about the riding position
>


Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water from a
plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE frequently.
If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like Evian's, the problem is
not there. I have also successfully used those aluminum bottles that are
coated inside(www.sierratraders.com). They work well in this regard, but
one can't squeeze them to get the water out )^: Currently prototyping a
tubing system like the camelbak that uses a bottle instead. Food grade
silicone tubing and stainless steel fittings.
I suppose the ride position could be a factor, but doesn't explain the
riding days that I use a "safe" container to drink from.
(I thought it was just me!)

--rorschandt
May all beings be happy.
May they be joyous and live in safety.
All living beings, whether weak or strong,
in high or middle or low realms of existence,
small or great, visible or invisible,
near or far, born or to be born,
Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state;
Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another.
Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over
and protects her only child,
so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,

[Robert Siegel]

I cannot recall experiencing this problem and I'm 75.
I never use a camelback or similar device, 90% commercial bottled water and
occasionally tap-filled polar "insulated" bottles.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"rorschandt" > wrote in message
. 97.132...
> Dan Burkhart > wrote in
> :
>
> > Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and have never posted before. This
> > one interested me because I thought all along it was just me. I am 50
> > years old, have no prostrate or urination issues. That is untill I get
> > on my Quetzal recumbent then it seems I have to go all the time. I do
> > drink a lot of water while riding, ( I'll empty a 100 oz camelback a
> > couple of times on a 90 k ride) but I drink a lot of water at other
> > times too. ( Always have, I'm not diabetic or anything) Definitly
> > something about the riding position
> >
>
>
> Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water from a
> plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE frequently.
> If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like Evian's, the problem is
> not there. I have also successfully used those aluminum bottles that are
> coated inside(www.sierratraders.com). They work well in this regard, but
> one can't squeeze them to get the water out )^: Currently prototyping a
> tubing system like the camelbak that uses a bottle instead. Food grade
> silicone tubing and stainless steel fittings.
> I suppose the ride position could be a factor, but doesn't explain the
> riding days that I use a "safe" container to drink from.
> (I thought it was just me!)
>
> --rorschandt
> May all beings be happy.
> May they be joyous and live in safety.
> All living beings, whether weak or strong,
> in high or middle or low realms of existence,
> small or great, visible or invisible,
> near or far, born or to be born,
> Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state;
> Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another.
> Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over
> and protects her only child,
> so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,

[Tom Sherman]

rorschandt wrote:
>
> Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water from a
> plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE frequently.
> If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like Evian's, the problem is
> not there....

Most water bottles are made from high-density polyethylene (HDPE) or
low-density polyethylene (LDPE), while bottled water containers are
generally polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE). I have not seen any
markings on hydration bladders themselves, but the tubing is almost
identical to potable water grade polyvinyl chloride (PVC) tubing. Most
of these materials are not completely inert and will have some
solubility in water.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[rorschandt]

Tom Sherman > wrote in
:

>
> rorschandt wrote:
>>
>> Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water
>> from a plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE
>> frequently. If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like
>> Evian's, the problem is not there....
>
> Most water bottles are made from high-density polyethylene (HDPE) or
> low-density polyethylene (LDPE), while bottled water containers are
> generally polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE). I have not seen
> any markings on hydration bladders themselves, but the tubing is
> almost identical to potable water grade polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
> tubing. Most of these materials are not completely inert and will have
> some solubility in water.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Correct. Almost all plastics contain a "plasticizers" (sounds
redundant)that leaches out into anything that touches it. PVC is nasty all
by itself. Teflons(PTFE) and silicones don't need to have these chemicals.
Silicones are cured either with platinum, or...damn I forgot the other
method.I have good luck with the PETE and PET bottles, and merely refill
them with water from my reverse osmosis dealy in the kitchen.

-- Rorschandt
May all beings be happy.
May they be joyous and live in safety.
All living beings, whether weak or strong,
in high or middle or low realms of existence,
small or great, visible or invisible,
near or far, born or to be born,
Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state;
Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another.
Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over
and protects her only child,
so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,

[Tom Sherman]

rorschandt wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > rorschandt wrote:
> >>
> >> Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water
> >> from a plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE
> >> frequently. If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like
> >> Evian's, the problem is not there....
> >
> > Most water bottles are made from high-density polyethylene (HDPE) or
> > low-density polyethylene (LDPE), while bottled water containers are
> > generally polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE). I have not seen
> > any markings on hydration bladders themselves, but the tubing is
> > almost identical to potable water grade polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
> > tubing. Most of these materials are not completely inert and will have
> > some solubility in water.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Correct. Almost all plastics contain a "plasticizers" (sounds
> redundant)that leaches out into anything that touches it. PVC is nasty all
> by itself. Teflons(PTFE) and silicones don't need to have these chemicals.
> Silicones are cured either with platinum, or...damn I forgot the other
> method.I have good luck with the PETE and PET bottles, and merely refill
> them with water from my reverse osmosis dealy in the kitchen.

Some have expressed concern over the chemicals that can leach out of
PETE if used for long-term potable water storage - though I must admit
that I do reuse PETE bottles for drinking water.

Even glass is partially soluble (I remember using PTFE beakers for a
particular experiment for that very reason) and I suspect that even PTFE
will be slightly soluble, though I would not be concerned about using
either for storage of potable liquids.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[harv]

I see that many of us suffer those Shakesperian moments...To pee or not to
pee...It is indeed fortunate that the local trial has several kybos because
the trail sides are liberally covered with poison ivy.

Many years ago when I would ride local back roads, there were very few cars
to be seen even on rides of several hours. Once though, I was riding with a
friend and we stopped on what had been a deserted road, to water a roadside
phone pole. I think ten cars drove by. Must not be too much to do out in the
boonies.


"Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
om...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

[Byron Simms]

Oh yes, indeed. I though it was just me as well, since I've had 2+ years of
sugery and BCG (intra-bladder chemo), treatments for bladder cancer.
However, even after over six months without a treatment or other symptoms, I
still experience extreme urgency when 'bent riding. It doesn't occur at
other times or during other forms of exertion.
It must have something to do with the recumbent position and more rapid
processing of fluids. Recumbent cyclists are such a small demographic that
are experiencing the phenomenon, that we'll probably never see an actual
medical study on it.
And no, I've had quite enough of catheters to even consider THAT as an
option, thank you very much!

Byron Simms

"Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
om...
> Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bob

[Larry Bloomfield]

rorschandt > wrote in message >...
> Tom Sherman > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > rorschandt wrote:
> >>
> >> Glad you brought up the Camelbak. Whenever I ride and drink water
> >> from a plastic bike bottle or Camelbak, or Platypus, I urinate QUITE
> >> frequently. If I drink water from a clear plastic bottle like
> >> Evian's, the problem is not there....
> >
> > Most water bottles are made from high-density polyethylene (HDPE) or
> > low-density polyethylene (LDPE), while bottled water containers are
> > generally polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE). I have not seen
> > any markings on hydration bladders themselves, but the tubing is
> > almost identical to potable water grade polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
> > tubing. Most of these materials are not completely inert and will have
> > some solubility in water.
> >
> > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
>
> Correct. Almost all plastics contain a "plasticizers" (sounds
> redundant)that leaches out into anything that touches it. PVC is nasty all
> by itself. Teflons(PTFE) and silicones don't need to have these chemicals.
> Silicones are cured either with platinum, or...damn I forgot the other
> method.I have good luck with the PETE and PET bottles, and merely refill
> them with water from my reverse osmosis dealy in the kitchen.

I used to re-use PETE bottles until I read that worn PETE bottles may
also leach nasty petrochemicals into your water which is why they are
not recommended for reuse. Aluminum or Poly Propylene PP#5 (eg.
Rubbermaid) appear to be safest & 'plastic' taste-free bottles.
>
> -- Rorschandt
> May all beings be happy.
> May they be joyous and live in safety.
> All living beings, whether weak or strong,
> in high or middle or low realms of existence,
> small or great, visible or invisible,
> near or far, born or to be born,
> Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state;
> Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another.
> Even as a mother at the risk of her life watches over
> and protects her only child,
> so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,

[Dennis Tresenriter]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:52:37 -0600, "harv"
> wrote:

>Many years ago when I would ride local back roads, there were very few cars
>to be seen even on rides of several hours. Once though, I was riding with a
>friend and we stopped on what had been a deserted road, to water a roadside
>phone pole. I think ten cars drove by. Must not be too much to do out in the
>boonies.

My wife has been riding for many years and has never shied away from
making roadside pit stops. In my part of the world where one sees
corn for miles and miles, it's generally not a problem; you just duck
into the corn and the problem is solved. However, one nice Fall day
after the corn had been harvested, my wife had to make a stop and
instructed me to keep a sharp lookout.

You can figure out the rest of the story. We were in a slight dip in
the road and I was looking east and this car came along and I turned
just in time to see a full moon aimed at a car load of young lads
and...

-dennis

[Niteynite1]

Darn! I thought this was a religious thread about recumbant Unitarians.

Oops!

[Tom Sherman]

Niteynite1 wrote:
>
> Darn! I thought this was a religious thread about recumbant Unitarians.
>
> Oops!

Unitarians accept all bicycle configurations as being valid.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Robert Siegel]

I am a Seventh Day Ecumenical, myself.

--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL
"Tom Sherman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Niteynite1 wrote:
> >
> > Darn! I thought this was a religious thread about recumbant Unitarians.
> >
> > Oops!
>
> Unitarians accept all bicycle configurations as being valid.
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Ian]

Robert Siegel scribed with passion and wit:

> I am a Seventh Day Ecumenical, myself.
Trike itatarian here.
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Ian]

Ian scribed with passion and wit:

> Robert Siegel scribed with passion and wit:
>
>> I am a Seventh Day Ecumenical, myself.
> Trike itatarian here.
or even trike itarian. (I need a holiday)
--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Dennis Tresenriter]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:41:16 GMT, "Robert Siegel"
> wrote:

>I am a Seventh Day Ecumenical, myself.


Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.

[[email protected]]

Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:

: Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.

Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
religion?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

[Tom Sherman]

wrote:
>
> Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:
>
> : Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.
>
> Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
> religion?

Riding a recumbent bicycle is a religion, you heathen! ;)

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[Ian]

scribed with passion and wit:

> Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:
>
> : Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.
>
> Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
> religion?
Bents are a religion!

--
Ian

http://www.catrike.co.uk

[Dennis Tresenriter]

On 1 Dec 2003 00:09:54 GMT,
wrote:

>Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:
>
>: Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.
>
>Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
>religion?

Hmmm, my attempt at humor must have been lost in the electrons.

[Byron Drachman]

Dennis Tresenriter > wrote in message >...
> On 1 Dec 2003 00:09:54 GMT,
> wrote:
>
> >Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:
> >
> >: Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.
> >
> >Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
> >religion?
>
> Hmmm, my attempt at humor must have been lost in the electrons.

I thought it was funny.

Back to urination, there is absolutely no reason to be uncomfortable
while riding a recumbent. You can make an external catheder with a
little piece of tubing. You can buy an external catheder but you can
easily make your own. I used part of a rubber bulb and some plastic
tubing from the hardware store. For winter, my long tights are so old
and worn that luckily there is a small hole behind the left leg but
high enough up that it is in a good place for a small amount of
plastic tubing to hang down in front of the seat.

http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle/wc.jpg

If I am riding with a group I usually don't feel like asking everybody
else to stop and wait for me, so I can go to the back and right so I'm
not in somebody's mirror. There will be a telltale wet streak on the
road behind you but I doubt anybody will notice.

Here is my external catheder:

http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle/ec.jpg

I think I can safely skip detailed instructions on how to use it,
right?

As I said, why spoil an otherwise enjoyable ride by being
uncomfortable when it is so easy to pee on the fly. Obviously, I'm
just talking to the guys here. By the way, I mentioned this at another
bulletin board and somebody was offended by the suggestion.

Byron

[[email protected]]

Byron Drachman > wrote:

: Back to urination, there is absolutely no reason to be uncomfortable
: while riding a recumbent. You can make an external catheder with a
: little piece of tubing. You can buy an external catheder but you can
: easily make your own.

Hmm now I can see this could improve my century times...

If there is a pee stop every 2 hours, it takes 3 minutes on the
average and the average speed is 20 km/h, then this means we can
gain a ( 3 / 120 ) * 20 = 0.5 km/h speed increase from this.

: uncomfortable when it is so easy to pee on the fly. Obviously, I'm
: just talking to the guys here. By the way, I mentioned this at another
: bulletin board and somebody was offended by the suggestion.

Maybe it could be made to work for girls as well, at least in an
upright position... Offended by exactly which suggestion?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi

[mike]

yes definitely on the higher bottom bracket bikes, I noticed it right
off myself on a vrex.
don't notice it on a BikeE. ,. as someone else had mentioned the legs
in relation to the body causes it, the leg elevation causes it, it
causes the fluids to pool out of the legs and into the bladder, after
going through the kidneys of course!

its also a technique that is used with people that have problems with
their bladder filling up at night, and over filling the bladder causes
damage and complications,
the method is to elevate your legs a couple hours before bedtime ,
this will help get the fluid into your bladder , and you can than
empty it before going to sleep...sometimes the night medications they
give the injured can weaken the pee signals to the brain and you wont
wake up and result is a way to full bladder in the am
I know I have damage to the peripheral nerves of the spinal cord
which caused a neurogenic bladder and have been through over 6000
catherizations, luckily after 2 years my bladder started working
pretty normally again..
so I know its not from not totally emptying the bladder since I did
that with a tube up the !
another common problem that causes frequent peeing is urine
retention, which is not being able to completely empty the
bladder........ but this has nothing to do with bottom bracket....
certain medications that contain ephedrine contribute to this plus
others, what happens is you always have 100ml or 200ml left over in
you bladder after you pee, the sphincter muscle in the bladder becomes
weakened from the medication.. therefore you have to pee more often
since the normal nerves will signal the brain you goota pee at about
350 to 400ml. constant holding of the bladder past 600ml is bad for
you... really!
I know more about the bladder than I ever wanted to know and now you
do too.
most doctors aren't up on it either unless they are urologist that
specialize in spinal cord injuries and rehabilitation, or a good sci
nurse will know!

[John]

For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with blood
flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle age
men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any female
posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing this
sense of urgency.

John


"Byron Simms" > wrote in message
...
> Oh yes, indeed. I though it was just me as well, since I've had 2+ years
of
> sugery and BCG (intra-bladder chemo), treatments for bladder cancer.
> However, even after over six months without a treatment or other symptoms,
I
> still experience extreme urgency when 'bent riding. It doesn't occur at
> other times or during other forms of exertion.
> It must have something to do with the recumbent position and more rapid
> processing of fluids. Recumbent cyclists are such a small demographic that
> are experiencing the phenomenon, that we'll probably never see an actual
> medical study on it.
> And no, I've had quite enough of catheters to even consider THAT as an
> option, thank you very much!
>
> Byron Simms
>
> "Bob Slebodnik" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Recently, a gentleman send a letter to Recumbent Cyclist News about a
> > phenomenon that he has noticed: the increased need for (productive)
> > urination while riding a recumbent that disappears when not riding a
> > recumbent. I, too, have noticed this in my 6,000+ miles on
> > recumbents. I find that I have to stop every 45 minutes or so and
> > that sensation of needing to stop starts after only about 25 minutes.
> > Again, it is productive of a normal amount of urine when I stop so and
> > I don't notice this phenomenon in other aerobic activity or when not
> > riding a recumbent. I do not drink alot of fluids when I ride (though
> > I know that I should). I am not diabetic and do not seem to have
> > prostate problems. As far as ergonomics go, I have noticed this on my
> > Rans Tailwind and now on my Rans Velocity Squared. I would be
> > interested in knowing if this is a widespread phenomenon or not and if
> > anyone knows what causes it. Thank-you in advance for your assistance.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Bob
>
>

[Dennis Tresenriter]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:53:31 GMT, "John" > wrote:

>For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with blood
>flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle age
>men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any female
>posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing this
>sense of urgency.

I was one who posted earlier about experiencing more frequent
urination stops on a recumbent as opposed to my uprights. I'm
reposting to let you know that I don't have a prostate; it's been
removed.

Next theory.

-dennis in central illinois

Dennis Tresenriter
Central Illinois

[Joe Keenan]

(Byron Drachman) wrote in message >...
> Dennis Tresenriter > wrote in message >...
> > On 1 Dec 2003 00:09:54 GMT,
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Dennis Tresenriter > wrote:
> > >
> > >: Really, I'm a Seven Day Adbentist.
> > >
> > >Do people think there really is a relation between bents and
> > >religion?
> >
> > Hmmm, my attempt at humor must have been lost in the electrons.
>
> I thought it was funny.
>
> Back to urination, there is absolutely no reason to be uncomfortable
> while riding a recumbent. You can make an external catheder with a
> little piece of tubing. You can buy an external catheder but you can
> easily make your own. I used part of a rubber bulb and some plastic
> tubing from the hardware store. For winter, my long tights are so old
> and worn that luckily there is a small hole behind the left leg but
> high enough up that it is in a good place for a small amount of
> plastic tubing to hang down in front of the seat.
>
> http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle/wc.jpg
>
> If I am riding with a group I usually don't feel like asking everybody
> else to stop and wait for me, so I can go to the back and right so I'm
> not in somebody's mirror. There will be a telltale wet streak on the
> road behind you but I doubt anybody will notice.
>
> Here is my external catheder:
>
> http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle/ec.jpg
>
> I think I can safely skip detailed instructions on how to use it,
> right?
>
> As I said, why spoil an otherwise enjoyable ride by being
> uncomfortable when it is so easy to pee on the fly. Obviously, I'm
> just talking to the guys here. By the way, I mentioned this at another
> bulletin board and somebody was offended by the suggestion.
>
> Byron

Bryon,

That's a great idea and I'll build one for myself for rides during the
winter when the cold seems to speed up the process even more so!!!

By the way, a company does make a device for a woman to use that
allows similar results. I won't go into details here, but if anyone
wants info, email me off line.

Slow Joe

[Dean Arthur]

Why not a setup similar to that used by flyers in Europe during World
War One? A leather/rubber contraption to fasten to one's self for in
flight elimination.

One of the reasons for "echelon" formation flying. So one wouldn't
irrigate buddies behind one.

Gave new meaning to the phrase "golden showers."

[mike]

Dennis Tresenriter > wrote in message >...
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:53:31 GMT, "John" > wrote:
>
> >For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with blood
> >flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle age
> >men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any female
> >posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing this
> >sense of urgency.
>
> I was one who posted earlier about experiencing more frequent
> urination stops on a recumbent as opposed to my uprights. I'm
> reposting to let you know that I don't have a prostate; it's been
> removed.
>
> Next theory.
>
> -dennis in central illinois
>
> Dennis Tresenriter
> Central Illinois


also another debunk the prostrate theory , enlarged prostrate only
causes retention, not more production of urine or you bladder filling
up quicker.
prostrate causes difficulity in totally emptying the bladder, known
as urine retention.
the same thing ependrine and other medications can cause but by a
different method location. prostrate is located near the spincter
muscle of the bladder,
when it enlarges it restricts the flow by pressing against the
uretha , causing a weak stream or dribble of urine.. ephendrine can
causes inability to relax the splincter in the bladder to open to be
able to pee. ..

[mike]

Dennis Tresenriter > wrote in message >...
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:53:31 GMT, "John" > wrote:
>
> >For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with blood
> >flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle age
> >men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any female
> >posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing this
> >sense of urgency.

>
>

what are you riding that your appllying pressure to your prostrate?
its located under the bladder at the top of the uretha. it can be
massaged internally via the butt. doubt thats a seat modification
people have

[John]

Last guess...since it seems to be a relatively common phenomenon, then it
must have something to do with stimluation of those nerve(s) or nerve roots
contributing to urination. It seems that bladder control is part of the
sacral nerve roots (S1 - S4) and therefore the reclined position may be
providing posterior pressure on these nerve roots causing the urgency and
frequency.

John

"Dennis Tresenriter" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:53:31 GMT, "John" > wrote:
>
> >For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with
blood
> >flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle
age
> >men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any
female
> >posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing
this
> >sense of urgency.
>
> I was one who posted earlier about experiencing more frequent
> urination stops on a recumbent as opposed to my uprights. I'm
> reposting to let you know that I don't have a prostate; it's been
> removed.
>
> Next theory.
>
> -dennis in central illinois
>
> Dennis Tresenriter
> Central Illinois

[harv]

Uh, actually Mike it's PROSTATE, unless you're Andy Sipowicz (NYPD Blue), or
unless you're an acolyte prostrating yourself before your leader.
"mike" > wrote in message
om...
> Dennis Tresenriter > wrote in message
>...
> > On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:53:31 GMT, "John" > wrote:
> >
> > >For what it is worth, I doubt if this problem has anything to do with
blood
> > >flow, blood pressure, or kidney excretion. My guess is that the middle
age
> > >men experiencing this phenomenon (at least I don't think I read any
female
> > >posts concerning this) are applying pressure to their prostate causing
this
> > >sense of urgency.
>
> >
> >
>
> what are you riding that your appllying pressure to your prostrate?
> its located under the bladder at the top of the uretha. it can be
> massaged internally via the butt. doubt thats a seat modification
> people have

[Tom Sherman]

Joe Keenan wrote:
> ...
> By the way, a company does make a device for a woman to use that
> allows similar results. I won't go into details here, but if anyone
> wants info, email me off line.

See: <http://www.stadiumpal.com/stadiumgal.html>.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[mike]

"John" > wrote in message >...
> Last guess...since it seems to be a relatively common phenomenon, then it
> must have something to do with stimluation of those nerve(s) or nerve roots
> contributing to urination. It seems that bladder control is part of the
> sacral nerve roots (S1 - S4) and therefore the reclined position may be
> providing posterior pressure on these nerve roots causing the urgency and
> frequency.


you won't put pressure on those nerves that way...S1 thry S4 are
already naturally fused together
the nerves that control the bladder/ bowels are in the cauda
equina(my injury) at the l5/s1 level or for higher level Thoriac
injuries it would be at the conus medullaris which is at the end of
the spinal cord.. when they are damaged you don't get a false sense
to pee at a lower bladder volume , like you would get from a UTI. you
have retention or leakage. at least that what I have learned from
spinal cord injury.
when you have damage those nerves you usually have bladder and
bowel problems which means you cant empty your bladder completely
or at all ,and have to insert a cather( hollow tube via penis) into
your bladder to empty it, it will totally empty the bladder. like a
tube on the bottom of a camel back bladder.
higher level spinal cord injuries sometimes cannot retain fluid once
it gets past a certain fluid level the sphincter muscle in the
bladder will leak or the bladder wall will spontaneous contract , if
you don't wear a external if you bend over you may wet your pants.


what I found with the higher bottom bracket of the Vrex , even when I
cathed, and had a totally empty bladder , which I had to sometimes 10
x a day or more. I learned to do anyplace, in the woods , 6000 times
latter you get pretty good at it!
I would have to again pee within 1 hour , and I was monitoring my
fluid intake. to try and not drink to much , since cathing took up
supplies(weight/space and don't want to run out) and needed a bit
more time and privacy, sure could scare some one it they walked in on
you doing the plumbing job! I would use a type of cath that had a
self contained collection bag for the urine and it had markings , so
I knew exactly how much fluid was in my bladder. this was important,
too full a bladder is bad for bladder and kidneys. if the urge to
pee was happening when you had under 250ml it usually meant a UTI ,
there was always over 350ml inside me which is about the normal
message to brain you have to pee .
this wouldn't happen on my lower bottom bracket bike like the BikeE,
lower legs pumping and I would pump less urine into my bladder. I
would have a normal time span with peeing and relative to urine
intake and sweat output ..
so I saw a big measurable difference in actually urine production
with a higher bottom bracket as opposed to a low bb bike both
recumbents, with similar seats, with my injury i had to carefully
monitor my bladder fullness,

[Byron Drachman]

(mike) wrote in message >...
> "John" > wrote in message >...
> > Last guess...since it seems to be a relatively common phenomenon, then it
> > must have something to do with stimluation of those nerve(s) or nerve roots
> > contributing to urination. It seems that bladder control is part of the
> > sacral nerve roots (S1 - S4) and therefore the reclined position may be
> > providing posterior pressure on these nerve roots causing the urgency and
> > frequency.
>
>
> you won't put pressure on those nerves that way...S1 thry S4 are
> already naturally fused together
> the nerves that control the bladder/ bowels are in the cauda
> equina(my injury) at the l5/s1 level or for higher level Thoriac
> injuries it would be at the conus medullaris which is at the end of
> the spinal cord.. when they are damaged you don't get a false sense
> to pee at a lower bladder volume , like you would get from a UTI. you
> have retention or leakage. at least that what I have learned from
> spinal cord injury.
> when you have damage those nerves you usually have bladder and
> bowel problems which means you cant empty your bladder completely
> or at all ,and have to insert a cather( hollow tube via penis) into
> your bladder to empty it, it will totally empty the bladder. like a
> tube on the bottom of a camel back bladder.
> higher level spinal cord injuries sometimes cannot retain fluid once
> it gets past a certain fluid level the sphincter muscle in the
> bladder will leak or the bladder wall will spontaneous contract , if
> you don't wear a external if you bend over you may wet your pants.
>
>
> what I found with the higher bottom bracket of the Vrex , even when I
> cathed, and had a totally empty bladder , which I had to sometimes 10
> x a day or more. I learned to do anyplace, in the woods , 6000 times
> latter you get pretty good at it!
> I would have to again pee within 1 hour , and I was monitoring my
> fluid intake. to try and not drink to much , since cathing took up
> supplies(weight/space and don't want to run out) and needed a bit
> more time and privacy, sure could scare some one it they walked in on
> you doing the plumbing job! I would use a type of cath that had a
> self contained collection bag for the urine and it had markings , so
> I knew exactly how much fluid was in my bladder. this was important,
> too full a bladder is bad for bladder and kidneys. if the urge to
> pee was happening when you had under 250ml it usually meant a UTI ,
> there was always over 350ml inside me which is about the normal
> message to brain you have to pee .
> this wouldn't happen on my lower bottom bracket bike like the BikeE,
> lower legs pumping and I would pump less urine into my bladder. I
> would have a normal time span with peeing and relative to urine
> intake and sweat output ..
> so I saw a big measurable difference in actually urine production
> with a higher bottom bracket as opposed to a low bb bike both
> recumbents, with similar seats, with my injury i had to carefully
> monitor my bladder fullness,

Even if you have no major medical problem, as men get older the
prostate enlarges, it gets harder to empty the bladder, and you need
to urinate more often.

As I mentioned in posting #54, there is no reason to be uncomfortable
because you need to urinate, and it is easy to pee while riding and
nobody will notice. If you are worried about someone noticing a small
piece of tubing hanging down from the front of the seat, you can run
some tubing to the lowest point of your bent and have it come up to
the front of the seat from underneath. You can even disguise the
tubing by enclosing it. You can use a connector to the tubing to the
device. The device I described in #54 is my favorite.

You can also buy an external catheter for around $2.00. They are made
of latex and double as a weenie warmer in cold weather. You can just
leave it in place for the whole ride, and when you dismount for
breaks, just pull in the short piece of tubing to inside your clothing
before you dismount. However, I prefer the simple device already
described.

Another possibility is the device with a piece of tubing inside your
tights in the winter down to your ankles, a little longer than that,
and pull the tubing below your heel and pee with your leg at its
lowest point while coasting, then pull the tubing up just a little so
it does not show when done.

I find peeing is easiest on down hills, since there are some muscles
that need to relax when you pee. The only evidence will be a streak
along the road. However, roads tend to have streaks caused by ruts,
tire marks, and stuff like that so the streak will not be as
noticeable as you would first think. I suppose if anybody ever
notices, you could say your water bottle must be leaking again.

If you are on a group ride, just be at the back if you are worried
about somebody noticing.

Byron

[BentJay]

I'm not sure I understand this thread at all. I've ridden my
recumbents many thousands of miles but not one of 'em has ever
urinated in my presence. What my Greenspeed does privately is none of
my business, I say!

BentJay

[Tom Sherman]

BentJay wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I understand this thread at all. I've ridden my
> recumbents many thousands of miles but not one of 'em has ever
> urinated in my presence. What my Greenspeed does privately is none of
> my business, I say!

I recall a Lightning P-38 discharging fluid on a club ride. (OK, it was
a leaking hydration bladder stored in a trunk rack).

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

[harv]

Hmm, a Shakesperian moment. To pee, or not to pee.
Tom Sherman > wrote in message
...
>
> BentJay wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand this thread at all. I've ridden my
> > recumbents many thousands of miles but not one of 'em has ever
> > urinated in my presence. What my Greenspeed does privately is none of
> > my business, I say!
>
> I recall a Lightning P-38 discharging fluid on a club ride. (OK, it was
> a leaking hydration bladder stored in a trunk rack).
>
> Tom Sherman - Planet Earth