I hate Harley Davidson!

[Robin Hubert]

... or at least, the image.

The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"

****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.

Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

--
Robin Hubert >

[[email protected]]

Robin Hubert > wrote:
: ... or at least, the image.

: The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
: amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
: catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
: over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
: protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"

: ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
: assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.

: Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

: --
: Robin Hubert >


They are annoying, but they are also very easy to share the road with when
riding your bike.


--------------------------------
Bob Masse'
--------------------------------

[Sorni]

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up
street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.

Dammit, Robin, you're never going to get your point across until you learn
to just say what you mean!

Mountain Bikers Get It From Dirt Bikers* Too Bill

*there _are_ a few considerate ones, but far between it seems

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:29:34 GMT, Robin Hubert >
wrote:
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

No, but I'd like to get a rice-burning crotch-rocket
and run circles around them.

> --
> Robin Hubert >
--
Rick Onanian

[Boyd Speerschneider]

Rick Onanian > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:29:34 GMT, Robin Hubert >
> wrote:
>> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>
> No, but I'd like to get a rice-burning crotch-rocket
> and run circles around them.
>
>> --
>> Robin Hubert >

That's the spirit!!!

[one of the six billion]

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting
their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up
street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>

Yep, I share your grievance, and I also think they're immature egotistical
idiots. The level of noise pollution from the Harley style bikes is
outrageous and actually violent. When they go by and my child starts
screaming I have to work to relax through my feelings of animosity. I also
have similar issues when the road racer style motorcyclists go screaming
past me on twisty mountain roads at speeds of 20-50 mph above the speed
limit.

[Max]

In article t>,
"Robin Hubert" > wrote:

> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

I have noticed a tendency, when riding out in the country, for Harley
riders to coast the last half mile or so to me and then drop in the
clutch in a roar of backfiring fury just as they pass...

I find it exhilirating, and the pee in my bike shorts helps me stay
cooler.

..max

--
the part of >
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

[Stephen Harding]

Max wrote:

> I have noticed a tendency, when riding out in the country, for Harley
> riders to coast the last half mile or so to me and then drop in the
> clutch in a roar of backfiring fury just as they pass...

I've never had problems with the Harley riders. Generally it's the
kiddies on the rice rockets that are the annoyance.

Had one child swing over into the wide road shoulder to come up next
to me, then give the throttle a couple screaming blips and roared off.

Had his girlfriend on the back so I presume this was supposed to be a
very impressive technical maneuvre in this dimwit's feeble brain. If
the babe was impressed, they deserve each other.

I do love the look and sound of a Hog though!


SMH

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article t>,
says...

>****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
>assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.

Have you tried speaking to your local cops? I'm sure your neighbors are
also annoyed by the loud noise they make.

-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)

[Bill Davidson]

Robin Hubert wrote:
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

While I sympathize about the noise, it's not just Harley riders who
have inadequate mufflers. Most motorcycles on the road have them these
days. It's really annoying.

One thing I have noticed is that when a motorcycle is zipping in and
out of lanes through traffic and generally riding like a maniac, it
usually isn't someone on a Harley. For some reason, Harley riders
seem to be smarter riders than the average guy on a Japanese or German
motorcycle.

I think we do need to have and enforce tougher laws on the mufflers.

That protest sign is a bad idea. You will get your ass kicked.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

[Rick Onanian]

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:22:03 -0700, Bill Davidson >
wrote:
> While I sympathize about the noise, it's not just Harley riders who
> have inadequate mufflers. Most motorcycles on the road have them these
> days. It's really annoying.

Same problem, different reasons (read on).

> One thing I have noticed is that when a motorcycle is zipping in and
> out of lanes through traffic and generally riding like a maniac, it
> usually isn't someone on a Harley. For some reason, Harley riders
> seem to be smarter riders than the average guy on a Japanese or German
> motorcycle.

What we have here is two different personalities being compared.

First, harley rider:
-- Thinks he's a bad-ass biker dude
-- Wants others to think that he's a bad-ass
-- Loud muffler to bother people
-- Rides slow and safe because he can't go
fast and doesn't wear a helmet (at least, around here)

Then, ricer rider:
-- Doesn't care what others think
-- Is seeking thrill and excitement, is younger, feels invincible
(ever see one doing a 70mph wheelie for a half mile with
hundreds of cars and trucks surrounding him?)
-- Enjoys the noise for himself, doesn't care about others
-- Also thinks the noise alerts drivers to his presence when
he's in their blind spot (applies to some harley riders too)
-- An occasional ricer rider is like Fabrizio, and rides the
bike and all kit clothes to look cool.

These are my observations about motorcycle riders. I, personally,
see no point in riding a harley, just as I see no point in riding
a heavy, fat-tire MTB on pavement; if you're uncomfortable on a
road bike, a comfort bike or hybrid will work better. Just the
same, there are such motorcycles -- Honda Gold Wing riders look
very comfortable, are very quiet, and ride very safely. They're
just relaxing and enjoying fresh air.

> I think we do need to have and enforce tougher laws on the mufflers.

With some exceptions. I suspect that it's easy enough to use a
higher gear and be quiet when in residential neighborhoods; but
on the highway, it's certainly worthwhile to increase your
profile by being loud. I believe the noise does help, if ever
so slightly, with safety.

> That protest sign is a bad idea. You will get your ass kicked.

Speaking of safety, ass-kickage will definately occur if you
stand at the side of the road with that sign.

> --Bill Davidson
--
Rick Onanian

[Rivermist]

At least they never get too close to me. It is enough satisfaction to me
that they usually have a big belly and I don't.


"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up
street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>
> --
> Robin Hubert >
>
>

[Pete]

"Rick Onanian" > wrote

>
> What we have here is two different personalities being compared.
>
> First, harley rider:

>
> Then, ricer rider:


Third - older harley rider
-- quiet (mostly)
-- sedate
-- strong self-preservation gene (riding to go see the grandkids)
-- generally courteous
-- usually a full dress rather than a rat bike
-- sometimes with 'older harley rider spouse' on the back, and she don't
allow any foolishness.

Fourth - BMW rider
---same as 'older harley rider', but even quieter

Pete

[Bill Davidson]

Rick Onanian wrote:
> First, harley rider:
> -- Rides slow and safe because he can't go
> fast and doesn't wear a helmet (at least, around here)

Here we have a motorcycle mandatory helmet law so they wear crappy
skull-cap helmets. Harley's can go fast (just add oil after every
ride). I think these guys are just a little more into safe riding.
I think that is in part because they tend to be a little older than
the ricer set. Their bikes are also a bit less maneuverable than
most ricers.

> Then, ricer rider:
> -- Doesn't care what others think

Definitely not true. These guys are into image--just a different one.

> -- Is seeking thrill and excitement, is younger, feels invincible
> (ever see one doing a 70mph wheelie for a half mile with
> hundreds of cars and trucks surrounding him?)

Many times. Most recently last week though I think it was only
300 yards at the most.

> -- Enjoys the noise for himself, doesn't care about others

No, he thinks he's impressing people.

> -- Also thinks the noise alerts drivers to his presence when
> he's in their blind spot (applies to some harley riders too)

They say that but smart riding contributes far more to safety and the
noise doesn't always help. It certainly doesn't help on the freeway
when they're doing 95mph. Everything happens too fast.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

[Corvus Corvax]

Bill Davidson > wrote
>
> That protest sign is a bad idea. You will get your ass kicked.

Since when would he get his ass kicked by a bunch of dentists?

CC

[[email protected]]

Harley-Davidson began in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in 1901, when
21-year-old William Harley and 20-year-old Arthur Davidson decided
they wanted to take "the work out of bicycling."

The first Harley in 1903 was essentially a bicycle with an engine, as
seen here:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/motor_cycles/2003/6/heroes_harley_davidson/

[smokey]

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message t>...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

i wonder how many people in this thread are motorcyclists? i am, to
the tune of 250,000+ miles on several brands, including three harleys.
as in most other things in life, you will find most motorcyclists are
courteous to other road users, and there are a few bad apples that
often overshadow the good that other motorcyclists do. yes, i've been
irritated by harley riders, along with a few riders of other brands.
all towns have excessive noise ordinances. you should call your local
police dep't. to report your problem. trying to knock them off their
bikes or put up the sign you mentioned is a very bad idea and is
inviting a physical confrontation.
smokey

[Skokatt]

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in
nk.net:

> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>

Maybe those same tax dollars could enforce laws to force biking assholes
to add head lights, brake lights, turn signals, and higher gears to their
bicycles so that they could keep up with posted speed limits.

Please don't view this as a flame toward you personally... but as an
example of how people think other people's form of transportation should
be more like their own. A lot of the posts here talk of how motorist are
unaware of the lifestyle of a bicyclist, yet here you are applying the
same prejudice toward motorcyclist.

Just a thought...

--
- Chris -
www.skokatt.com
_____________________________

People say I'm cruel. But I have the heart of a small child.
In a jar. On my desk.

[Robin Hubert]

"Phil" > wrote in message
...
> > I hate Harley Davidson!
>
> >Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>
> I was coming back from SD, to NY on my Harley, no, not from Sturgis,
heading
> east to Pierre SD(??) and passed a hundred or so bicyclists, a line which
> stretched for miles. There wasn't a cloud in the sky, and I didn't see a
> shaded spot all along the route and the temperature when I reached Pierre
was
> 104.
>
> I gave all the bicyclists plenty of room, and coasted by all of them with
the
> least possible amount of exhaust sound. As I passed I gave each group or
> single rider a blip of the horn and a thumbs up. I told my wife, who was
> riding with me on the back, when we stopped for a break, that I bet when
all
> the cyclists gathered at the end of the day they would say, " did ya see
that
> F'ing Harley guy giving us the finger?"
>
> Of course I ride a bicycle too.
>
> Phil
> (Harveywallbanger)
>

Hey, Phil, how well does your motorcycle comform with residential sound
pollution laws? What kind of decibels does it put out?

Another question, why does every Harley rider I see continuously blip the
throttle at stops? I recon it's a lot about puffing up the chest, or
flexing the muscles, or saying (like a child), "Hey, look at me!". (ok,
*once* I saw a female rider that didn't, while her boyfriend more than made
up for her) Alot of times I'll pull up to these guys on my bike, look at
them, puff up my chest, and pound on it like Tarzan, with each and every
throttle blip.

Wouldn't the world be a nice place if every vehicle on the road sounded like
a Harley (hear that **** roaring from a mile away), and everyone blipped
their throttles continuously at stops.

Give me a break. Most of you guys are jokes (not you, necessarily) and need
to live in Montana or somewhere they only infringe on the rights of moose.
Face it, this attitude is incompatible with modern urban living. And Marlon
Brando isn't cool anymore.

Oh, and for what it's worth, if bicyclists routinely wakened me from my
sleep (particularly if they all rode the same poser brand) and caused
hearing damage when the went past me on the road, then I'd post a similar
topic on them as well.

Also, just in case someone might consider me "prejudiced", maybe conditions
outside your bedroom window are different, but there are no rice burners
blasting down my street, hitting 3rd gear/45mph in a 30mph in one block,
from one stop sign to the next, rattling windows, scaring babies, and
generally disregarding the rights of others to live in peace and quiet.
Most of these guys are about riding the highways, not pretending they're
Marlon Brando or some cowboy.

--
Robin Hubert >

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 03:06:59 GMT, > wrote:
> The first Harley in 1903 was essentially a bicycle with an engine, as
> seen here:
>
> http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/motor_cycles/2003/6/heroes_harley_davidson/

Is that a suspension fork?

I think I have that same fork on my mountain bike.

--
Rick Onanian

[Zoot Katz]

Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:41:16 -0000,
>, Skokatt
> wrote:

>higher gears to their
>bicycles so that they could keep up with posted speed limits.

Posted speeds are the maximum. You aren't obliged to go that fast.
--
zk

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:07:06 GMT, Robin Hubert >
wrote:
> variety. Aside from that, why does everyone feel it's their duty to warn
> of the possible responses to my actions. <sarcasm on> Ya know, I might've
> never thought aggressive behavior might lead to conflict. Do you suggest
> hold a crumpet and tea party to explain my views to all these idiots?

Good point, but doing something that will result in a brawl,
even if you were trying to be peaceful and they attacked, is
bad for both groups. It makes the whole rest of the world,
especially the lawmakers who could possibly make a difference
(not that they would), think we're all idiots.

Also, a bicyclist with broken legs doesn't get far.

> Anyway, back when John Wayne was a hero I learned that you don't let
> criminals run you out of your neighborhood. I laugh at fearmongers who
> say
> "Don't say anything! You never know what they might do!" to anyone who
> might be doing something wrong.

That is a good point. Many of us grew up after John Wayne
ceased to be a mass-market hero [myself included], but could
stand to adopt a little bit of that attitude.

> --
> Robin Hubert >
--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:23:39 GMT, Robin Hubert >
wrote:
> up for her) Alot of times I'll pull up to these guys on my bike, look at
> them, puff up my chest, and pound on it like Tarzan, with each and every
> throttle blip.

This has got to be a comical picture. I'd love to see it.

Maybe I'll try it if I find myself in that situation.

> Give me a break. Most of you guys are jokes (not you, necessarily) and
> need
> to live in Montana or somewhere they only infringe on the rights of
> moose.

There are moose in Montana? I thought just cows there.

Moose are cool. I damn near got my Pontiac mauled 6 or 7
times in one week while in Maine...

> --
> Robin Hubert >
--
Rick Onanian

[Phil]

Skokatt > wrote in message >...
> "Robin Hubert" > wrote in
> nk.net:
>
> > ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> > assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
> >
>
> Maybe those same tax dollars could enforce laws to force biking assholes
> to add head lights, brake lights, turn signals, and higher gears to their
> bicycles so that they could keep up with posted speed limits.

Bikers are not required to have these things under the law. Posted
speed limits are limits and not requirements. You can't enforce laws
that aren't there. Motorcycles are required by law to have mufflers
and be under a certain sound level. Yet many if not most Harleys
are't even close to being within the law. That's what ticks many
non-motorcyclists off.

>
> Please don't view this as a flame toward you personally... but as an
> example of how people think other people's form of transportation should
> be more like their own. A lot of the posts here talk of how motorist are
> unaware of the lifestyle of a bicyclist, yet here you are applying the
> same prejudice toward motorcyclist.
>
Law enforcement is not prejudice. Well, ok, maybe the rest of his
rant was.
>
> Just a thought...

Mine too...

[Eric]

Well, remember that they will be deaf at 30 (or 10 years, whichever
comes first). Sound drops off exponentially (sp) as you get further
from it. Since you are being lulled out of sleep by the bikes, just
imagine how loud it is for them.

And, to make it worse (for them), it won't just be deafness. They will
most likely have tinitus (sp again), a terrible ringing in the ears
all the time. Trust me, it isn't fun. I have a touch of it from
playing the trombone for years and working in rooms with cooling fans
running all the time. I can only imagine what will happen to most of
these people when they are older.

Eric

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message t>...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

[GRL]

You should rethink point no.2. Diversity of speed on a road is NOT a good
thing and, in fact, leads to accidents. The safest road situations (other
factors being held constant) are those where the traffic is moving and the
same speed or very nearly so. Large speed differences are a great way to beg
for accidents. You cannot seriously think that putting bicyclists and
agricultural tractors on a high speed highway with traffic flow moving at
70+ m.p.h. is a good thing.

--

- GRL

"It's good to want things."

Steve Barr (philosopher, poet, humorist, chemist,
Visual Basic programmer)
"Luigi de Guzman" > wrote in message
om...
> "Robin Hubert" > wrote in message
t>...
>
> > Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>
> Nope, not me.
>
> Why?
>
> 1) Motorcyclists in general, Harley riders included, are usually
> extremely polite to me. I think there's a certain cameraderie in
> being on two wheels, exposed to the elements, and vigorously asserting
> one's right to be on the roadway in the face of wave after wave of
> Cadillac Escalades. (Trivia time: "escalade" is actually a technical
> military term, referring to the taking of a fortress by storm, using
> ladders to scale the walls. yuk.)
>
> Heck, I even wave at some of them, and a lot of them wave back.
>
> 2) I'm generally in favour of more diversity among road-users. This
> embraces motorcyclists, pedal cyclists, tractors, equestrians, etc.
>
> 3) Back at home, the motorcycle cops ride Harleys. I wave at them.
> They wave back. They also wave me through intersections they happen
> to be controlling. I know them all by face, and they know me by face
> and bike. I feel safer.
>
> I figure you merely encountered an asshole, and even my brief
> experience on this world has taught me that assholes are more or less
> equally-distributed among all walks of life and modes of transport.
>
> That said, there is one regulation on motorcycles that I'd be keen to
> introduce. Here in England, where I'm studying now, the law restricts
> what sort of motorcycle you are allowed to operate at which age. You
> are permitted to ride progressively more powerful motorcycles
> (measured by engine displacement in cubic centimetres) as you grow
> older. This is a fantastic idea, and I don't know why it doesn't
> catch on in north america...
>
> heck, I'd be all for instituting a similar rule on engine displacement
> or power for cars, as well. That way, you don't have kids doing
> stupid things in stupid-powerful cars, obliterating themselves and
> endangering everybody else.
>
> -Luigi
>
> Luigi for Transportation Tsar: Fair and Balanced!

[Rick Onanian]

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:35:28 -0300, Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-
online.coim> wrote:
> and what not, they take it outside and the harley guy gets his ass kicked
> by a guy in pink and blue lycra.

Well, consider this about bicyclists:
-- The lycra gives us freedom of movement to fight
-- The legs are strong from bicycling
-- The feet have metal cleats on them.

--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On 7 Aug 2003 16:21:13 -0700, Chalo > wrote:
> option for me. That requirement might have left me as just another
> jerk with a full-sized pickup truck as personal transportation.

What's wrong with a full-sized pickup as personal transportation?

Mine is a lot more comfortable than any car I've had, and
much more useful, to boot.

Though I probably wouldn't have it if I didn't also need it
for work...now I'm addicted and will never go back. Maybe a
second vehicle will be a muscle car, or a ricer.

> Chalo Colina
--
Rick Onanian

[Mark Jones]

"Skokatt" > wrote in message
...
> Please don't view this as a flame toward you personally... but as an
> example of how people think other people's form of transportation should
> be more like their own. A lot of the posts here talk of how motorist are
> unaware of the lifestyle of a bicyclist, yet here you are applying the
> same prejudice toward motorcyclist.
Excessive noise is a bad thing. There is no reason for
a Harley to be as loud as most of them are.

[Robin Hubert]

"Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:23:39 GMT, Robin Hubert >
> wrote:
> > up for her) Alot of times I'll pull up to these guys on my bike, look
at
> > them, puff up my chest, and pound on it like Tarzan, with each and every
> > throttle blip.
>
> This has got to be a comical picture. I'd love to see it.

Pretty funny, really. Rarely, one of these guys will have a sense of humor
about it. Most of 'em look confused and some get ****ed off and rev it up
to show me up.

>
> Maybe I'll try it if I find myself in that situation.
>
> > Give me a break. Most of you guys are jokes (not you, necessarily) and
> > need
> > to live in Montana or somewhere they only infringe on the rights of
> > moose.
>
> There are moose in Montana? I thought just cows there.
>
> Moose are cool. I damn near got my Pontiac mauled 6 or 7
> times in one week while in Maine...
>
> > --

--
Robin Hubert >

[Dick Durbin]

"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message t>...
> ... or at least, the image.
>
> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>
> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>
> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?

Go check out rec.motorcycles.harley and look at the thread "**** Lance
Armstrong" to see what the Harley riders are saying about bicyclists.

[Russ Price]

Dick Durbin > wrote:
> Go check out rec.motorcycles.harley and look at the thread "**** Lance
> Armstrong" to see what the Harley riders are saying about bicyclists.

Funny thing is, I've never had Harley riders hassle me on the road.
Indeed, the Harley types are the most likely to wave or give the
thumbs-up sign [1] of all motor vehicle operators I've encountered.

Then again, I ride a recumbent, so the "outlaw" factor probably comes
into play.

[1] For American values of thumbs-up. In the Arab world, thumbs-up is
like the US one-fingered salute, or the UK two-fingered salute.
--
Russ --kill the wabbit to despam
"The Segway: revolutionizing the way people get hit by cars."
-Robert Canon

[Zoot Katz]

8 Aug 2003 11:00:39 -0700,
>,
(Dick Durbin) wrote:

>"Robin Hubert" > wrote in message t>...
>> ... or at least, the image.
>>
>> The next time some idiot blasts past me and rips the throttle for my
>> amusement I'm going to knock them off their bikes at the next stop, if I
>> catch them. If these pukes keep waking me up every morning blasting their
>> over-priced noise-makers past my apartment, I'm going to take up street-side
>> protest with a sign that says "Harley riders are pussys!"
>>
>> ****ing children. I wish my taxes would enforce laws to force these
>> assholes to muffle these over-priced ego builders.
>>
>> Anyone else want to throw rocks at these idiots?
>
>Go check out rec.motorcycles.harley and look at the thread "**** Lance
>Armstrong" to see what the Harley riders are saying about bicyclists.

Mostly just the same stupid **** they spew as when drive their
pickemup trux. If they're dumb enough to ride Harleys, they're as dumb
as cagers.
--
zk

[Rick Onanian]

On 8 Aug 2003 11:00:39 -0700, Dick Durbin > wrote:
> Go check out rec.motorcycles.harley and look at the thread "**** Lance
> Armstrong" to see what the Harley riders are saying about bicyclists.

Just did. They're not such bad guys:
> Jeezus! Kenny Rogers on a bicycle? Like an olive
> skewered with a toothpick.

If they can come up with that, from a thread about Lance
Legstrong causing cyclists to come out of the woodwork
and ride track bikes on the road, then they must be worth
something.
--
Rick Onanian

[Rick Onanian]

On 8 Aug 2003 14:26:50 -0700, Chalo > wrote:
>> What's wrong with a full-sized pickup as personal transportation?
>
> What's wrong with a 12ga. shotgun for kitchen pest control?
> What's wrong with a claw hammer for dental extraction?
> What's wrong with pepper spray for disciplining your child?
> What's wrong with destroying the village in order to save it?

Those items are on an entirely different scale.

>> Mine is a lot more comfortable than any car I've had, and
>> much more useful, to boot.
>
> When I need a truck, I rent a truck.

I find that, with my truck, I can easily pick up bicycles
that are in people's garbage, and save landfill space, as
well as the environmental contamination caused by the
grease from them in the landfill, as well as resulting in
somebody riding a bike instead of a car occasionally, as
well as somebody re-using an existing bike instead of
buying a newly-manufactured one (of which the process of
manufacturing causes much pollution and waste).

Additionally, when I or somebody else needs a truck, I
have a modern, efficient one that can carry big loads,
instead of renting a big, old, abused one that pollutes
and uses lots of dinosaur juice.

When I only need a car, well, my truck gets similar
mileage to any car I would drive anyway; you'll never
cram me into a compact. Muscle car, okay. Big comfort
car, okay. Either way, I'm not getting more than 20mpg.

> To drive one around, empty, as personal transportation, is to proclaim
> that one's self-centeredness weighs at least 1/2 ton.

The other issue, for me, is that it's a combined work
and personal vehicle. I do require it for work.

If I drove a seperate car for personal use, then I:

-- Have a second vehicle which was manufactured.
Manufacturing uses energy and pollutes.

-- Have to dispose of two vehicles, instead of one,
at the end of their useful lives...and believe
me, you get a lot more mileage out of a vehicle
than you do years, so one vehicle == less waste.

-- Have many personal and financial reasons to have
only one vehicle.

-- Don't have to use any special racks for my bicycles
when I need to transport them.

If I only ever drove it for personal use, then your
arguments would carry a little more weight; and
certainly many people do. However, a modern pickup,
even a full size, is scarcely different than a large
car, and certainly better than many SUVs that weigh
even more, have even worse drag coefficients, and
tend to be driven by people who really have no idea
that they handle differently and can't handle that.

Not to mention...some people very commonly need to
move large / heavy / dirty items for personal use.
I've moved two refrigerators in the past week on
personal time for personal purposes. Should I have
rented a leaking, polluting, wasting rental truck
with money that I'd rather not spend, twice?

> Chalo Colina
--
Rick Onanian

[Zoot Katz]

Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:11:01 -0400, >,
Rick Onanian > wrote:

>I find that, with my truck, I can easily pick up bicycles
>that are in people's garbage, and save landfill space
\szip
>I've moved two refrigerators in the past week on
>personal time for personal purposes.
\szip

la dee da.

I frequently carry home junkers with my bicycle. I've even taken two
at once.
Fridges? Don't need no steenkin' truck for that either, hero.
http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org/gallery/pianomove.html
--
zk

[Mark Jones]

"Chalo" > wrote in message
om...
> When I need a truck, I rent a truck.
>
> To drive one around, empty, as personal transportation, is to proclaim
> that one's self-centeredness weighs at least 1/2 ton.
I want one that weighs at least 7000 pounds.

[Mark Jones]

"Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
...
> -- Have to dispose of two vehicles, instead of one,
> at the end of their useful lives...and believe
> me, you get a lot more mileage out of a vehicle
> than you do years, so one vehicle == less waste.
I have put less than 5,000 miles per year on both
my car and truck. I just don't drive them very far.

[Mark Jones]

"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
> la dee da.
>
> I frequently carry home junkers with my bicycle. I've even taken two
> at once.
> Fridges? Don't need no steenkin' truck for that either, hero.
BFD

[Jeff]

Okay, as an alternative to the thread that's been going on and on and on...

<rant on>
HD provides excellent customer service and care.

HD produces an excellent product. If you doubt it, buy a Harley today and
sell it 5 years from now for as much as you paid for it (try doing that with
your run of the mill car). In 10 years, you'll probably be able to sell it
for more than you paid for it. Furthermore, I've found their bikes to be
comfortable, highly customizable, and capable of surviving the abuse of a
new rider who didn't have a clue about what he (me) was doing.

If you don't like the way some HD customers use their bikes, I can agree
with that. Most of the HD riders I know, and I know many, are very
friendly, decent people - the type of folks you'd want to have as neighbors.
<rant off>

Have a great weekend. Personally, I'm looking forward to a couple of hours
cycling in Birds Hill Park tomorrow, against the wind and up hill all the
way.

[Zoot Katz]

Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:35:48 -0500,
>,
dweeboid, "Mark Jones" > lamed:

>"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
>> la dee da.
>>
>> I frequently carry home junkers with my bicycle. I've even taken two
>> at once.
>> Fridges? Don't need no steenkin' truck for that either, hero.
>BFD
>
I regularly carry a more useful loads with my bike than you've ever
moved in your plastic chebby.
--
zk

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:34:34 -0500, Mark Jones > wrote:
> "Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
> ...
>> -- Have to dispose of two vehicles, instead of one,
>> at the end of their useful lives...and believe
>> me, you get a lot more mileage out of a vehicle
>> than you do years, so one vehicle == less waste.

> I have put less than 5,000 miles per year on both
> my car and truck. I just don't drive them very far.

Eliminating one of those vehicles would save you a
lot of money, and would save environmentalists a
lot of heartache. I'm guessing that you only drive
when you need to carry a lot of people (car) or when
you need to carry bulky stuff (truck), and can't get
rid of either because the truck doesn't have a
backseat.

--
Rick Onanian

[GregR]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:22:45 -0500, "Jeff"
> wrote:

>Okay, as an alternative to the thread that's been going on and on and on...

>
>If you don't like the way some HD customers use their bikes, I can agree
>with that. Most of the HD riders I know, and I know many, are very
>friendly, decent people - the type of folks you'd want to have as neighbors.
><rant off>
>
>Have a great weekend. Personally, I'm looking forward to a couple of hours
>cycling in Birds Hill Park tomorrow, against the wind and up hill all the
>way.
>

Harley's are for fat, old men who are too lazy to pedal.

G

[Mark Jones]

"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
> Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:35:48 -0500,
> >,
> dweeboid, "Mark Jones" > lamed:
>
> >"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> la dee da.
> >>
> >> I frequently carry home junkers with my bicycle. I've even taken two
> >> at once.
> >> Fridges? Don't need no steenkin' truck for that either, hero.
> >BFD
> >
> I regularly carry a more useful loads with my bike than you've ever
> moved in your plastic chebby.
I have had the hatch area fully loaded on several occasions.
This is normally done when I drive a long distance on vacation.
People are usually surprised at how much cargo capacity
there is in the back of one of these cars.

Have you ever hauled two weeks worth of groceries home
on your bicycle? My car can easily hold this much cargo.

I don't need to haul heavy loads in my car as I can use my
4x4 truck for this. If I saw someone trying to haul a heavy
load behind a bicycle, I would think that the person was
either a nut or a cheapskate.

My two bicycles are about having fun and not about using
them as primary transportation. I would never want to
be without a truck after owning one for three years.

[Rick Onanian]

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 11:25:21 -0500, Mark Jones > wrote:
> Wrong on all points. I drive the truck a lot more than
> I do the car. The car is a Corvette with only two bucket
> seats. Not going to haul much with it. The Corvette gets
> driven about 2,000 miles a year and is something that
> I intend to have for many more years.

That is an entirely different case. You said before
that you have a "car and a truck", not a "Corvette
and a truck". A Corvette is not a matter of conflict
with having another vehicle; a Corvette is not a
daily-use vehicle.

I wish I had a Corvette.

Hell, I'd settle for a Camaro.

--
Rick Onanian

[Zoot Katz]

Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:30:59 -0400, >,
Rick Onanian > wrote:

>Hell, I'd settle for a Camaro.

Yeah, but then you'd have to wear a mullet or people would think you
stole the car.
--
zk

[Bill Kizer]

I am a fat old man on crack and I will whip your ass faggot!

Give me a call - 760 518 2493 - WIld BILL CRACK HEAD!!

[Mark Hickey]

"Jeff" > wrote:

>HD produces an excellent product. If you doubt it, buy a Harley today and
>sell it 5 years from now for as much as you paid for it (try doing that with
>your run of the mill car). In 10 years, you'll probably be able to sell it
>for more than you paid for it.

That has been the case, but I suspect that at some point in the not
too distant future the HD will no longer be the yuppy toy of choice,
and the value of a used V-twin will drop like a rock.

THAT will be the time to buy one (if you were ever so inclined). I've
owned a lot of other bikes, and now ride what I've always wanted - a
BMW K100RS. Wouldn't trade it for a V-twin anything - at least not if
I couldn't sell the V-twin and buy another BMW K-bike.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Zoot Katz]

Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:36:03 GMT,
>,
Mark Hickey > wrote:

>I haven't ever had any "situation" with a motorcyclist - I think most
>of them realize they have more in common with us than with anything on
>four wheels

That's been my experience as well. I've no animosity toward them
having previously owned and regularly ridden motorcycles.

I'm almost disappointed when the hog-herders don't blat out a fossil
fart while passing me. I've become accustomed to that knowing they're
really cagers at heart and for most of the week they're just the same
kind of jerks but on four wheels. Nobody really ever goes anywhere on
a Harley except vacations and club runs. They're toys for poseurs now.

The majority of real motorcyclists who ride daily are usually running
small bore non-descript Japanese iron in the "cruiser" or "cross"
configuration or venerable old beemers.

One of 'em pulled alongside me in rush hour last week and said,
"Aren't you afraid to be out here?"
"No. Why should I be?"
"Well, these assholes don't give a **** for us" (I smiled at his use
of the word "us")
"These assholes don't give a **** for each other either", I said.
He nodded agreement and we rode along together sharing the lane for
awhile. I didn't ask if he was afraid or if he'd examined statistics
citing motorcyclists greater risk of injury.
--
zk

[Stephen Harding]

Mark Hickey wrote:

> "Jeff" > wrote:
>
> >HD produces an excellent product. If you doubt it, buy a Harley today and
> >sell it 5 years from now for as much as you paid for it (try doing that with
> >your run of the mill car). In 10 years, you'll probably be able to sell it
> >for more than you paid for it.
>
> That has been the case, but I suspect that at some point in the not
> too distant future the HD will no longer be the yuppy toy of choice,
> and the value of a used V-twin will drop like a rock.
>
> THAT will be the time to buy one (if you were ever so inclined). I've
> owned a lot of other bikes, and now ride what I've always wanted - a
> BMW K100RS. Wouldn't trade it for a V-twin anything - at least not if
> I couldn't sell the V-twin and buy another BMW K-bike.

The appeal of the Harley isn't its technological wonders. Not especially
wondrous at all.

It's the mystique! There's a reason why every Hog sent for sale in Japan
is sold when it arrives. It ain't because it's a better bike than what
the Japanese produce!


SMH

[Hunrobe]

>"Roadside Artist"

wrote:

>You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?

In much the same way as much of what passes for today's representational art is
a substitute for talent, yes.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[Roadside Artist]

"Hunrobe" > wrote in message
...
| >"Roadside Artist"
|
| wrote:
|
| >You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?
|
| In much the same way as much of what passes for today's representational
art is
| a substitute for talent, yes.
|
| Regards,
| Bob Hunt

Totally.

[Mike Latondresse]

"mary wells-knecht" > wrote in
hlink.net:

> Only problem I have with HDs is the noise (not all of them but
> most). Totally ruins the experience of riding in the mountains
> when you get a large group of these noise-polluting people
> approaching you.

A neat memory of mine is passing a strung out group of about 40 Harleys
going down something called North Mountain on the Cabot trail. They
were all single file and I passed them all going about 20k faster,
dangerous, a little, but fun....YES.

[Stephen Harding]

Roadside Artist wrote:

> "Stephen Harding" > wrote in message
>
> | The appeal of the Harley isn't its technological wonders. Not especially
> | wondrous at all.
> |
> | It's the mystique! There's a reason why every Hog sent for sale in Japan
> | is sold when it arrives. It ain't because it's a better bike than what
> | the Japanese produce!
>
> You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?

That might be most of the explanation, although there are a
significant number of women who love Hogs too.

Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
members of? Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
not even on the team or don't even race? What was the appeal of
buying a bike with some road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?

One need not focus on the motor vehicle industry to find examples
of image directing consumption in people so lacking in sense of
self that they allow others to define it for them!


SMH

[Phil]

"Jeff" > wrote in message >...
> Okay, as an alternative to the thread that's been going on and on and on...
>
> <rant on>
> HD provides excellent customer service and care.

They better for what they cost and what you get.

>
> HD produces an excellent product.

Any gearhead knows better. Harleys are the most over rated
motorcycles on the road today. Mechanically, they are as advanced and
as reliable as an Edsel. Why people buy them is a mystery to me. I
always buy quality over image. Of course, most Harley riders are all
about image, obviously.

> If you doubt it, buy a Harley today and
> sell it 5 years from now for as much as you paid for it (try doing that with
> your run of the mill car). In 10 years, you'll probably be able to sell it
> for more than you paid for it.

I checked resale values and depreciation. Yes they are good in
percentage of original cost, but that pecentage usually adds up to
just as much and often more in actual dollars as the depreciation of
cheaper (and better) bikes.

>Furthermore, I've found their bikes to be
> comfortable, highly customizable, and capable of surviving the abuse of a
> new rider who didn't have a clue about what he (me) was doing.
>
> If you don't like the way some HD customers use their bikes, I can agree
> with that. Most of the HD riders I know, and I know many, are very
> friendly, decent people - the type of folks you'd want to have as neighbors.
> <rant off>

I don't want those noisy heaps in my neighborhood. Who does? I
could care less if they are nice people otherwise. If they break
noise laws, especially in residential areas, they are an ignorant
asshole, period. I have nothing against bikes and bikers that are
law-abiding and considerate to those around them.

>
> Have a great weekend. Personally, I'm looking forward to a couple of hours
> cycling in Birds Hill Park tomorrow, against the wind and up hill all the
> way.

[Sorni]

"Chris Phillipo" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >,
> says...
> > "Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I wish I had a Corvette.
> > >
> > > Hell, I'd settle for a Camaro.
> > I have had a Camaro and a Trans/Am.
> > The Corvette is so much better that it is had to imagine.
>
> It's shaped like a penis so that there can be no mistake why the onwer
> purchased it.

Um, a DEFORMED penis maybe!

Bill "those old funny cylindrical race cars from the 50's, on the other
hand..." S.

[Phil]

Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> Roadside Artist wrote:
>
> > "Stephen Harding" > wrote in message
> >
> > | The appeal of the Harley isn't its technological wonders. Not especially
> > | wondrous at all.
> > |
> > | It's the mystique! There's a reason why every Hog sent for sale in Japan
> > | is sold when it arrives. It ain't because it's a better bike than what
> > | the Japanese produce!
> >
> > You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?
>
> That might be most of the explanation, although there are a
> significant number of women who love Hogs too.
>
> Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
> members of?

Jerseys are functional quality clothing.

> Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
> not even on the team or don't even race?

Because they wanted Trek's best bike.

> What was the appeal of
> buying a bike with some road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?

Also good bikes.
>
> One need not focus on the motor vehicle industry to find examples
> of image directing consumption in people so lacking in sense of
> self that they allow others to define it for them!

True, but you gave poor examples. Harleys are priced like the best
but are not among the best. That's why Harley riders are so easy to
make fun of. They pay a huge premium for the privelege of riding an
inferior motorcycle.

[archer]

In article >,
says...
> Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> > Roadside Artist wrote:
> >
> > > "Stephen Harding" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > | The appeal of the Harley isn't its technological wonders. Not especially
> > > | wondrous at all.
> > > |
> > > | It's the mystique! There's a reason why every Hog sent for sale in Japan
> > > | is sold when it arrives. It ain't because it's a better bike than what
> > > | the Japanese produce!
> > >
> > > You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?
> >
> > That might be most of the explanation, although there are a
> > significant number of women who love Hogs too.
> >
> > Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
> > members of?
>
> Jerseys are functional quality clothing.

True, but why all the logo's of teams I'm not riding for? If I
advertise them by wearing all their logo's, they should be paying me, not
the other way around! Why can't I get that same jersey in a nice bright
yellow or hi-viz color without all the advertising on it?

.....

--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:52:23 GMT, "Sorni" >
wrote:

>"Chris Phillipo" > wrote in message
.. .
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> > "Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > I wish I had a Corvette.
>> > >
>> > > Hell, I'd settle for a Camaro.
>> > I have had a Camaro and a Trans/Am.
>> > The Corvette is so much better that it is had to imagine.
>>
>> It's shaped like a penis so that there can be no mistake why the onwer
>> purchased it.
>
>Um, a DEFORMED penis maybe!
>
>Bill "those old funny cylindrical race cars from the 50's, on the other
>hand..." S.
>
>
Police fear wurst, halt Wienermobile near Pentagon

MILWAUKEE - It's the most famous motorized sausage in the nation, but
even the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile can't drive on a restricted road
next to the Pentagon.

The crew of the 27-foot-long hot dog on wheels got grilled by police
when it mistakenly traveled on a road closed to commercial traffic.

Ever since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, Route 110 has been off
limits to vehicles with six wheels or more because of concerns that
someone could drive a truck bomb close to the home of the nation's
defense department.

So when the Wienermobile that departed from Madison, Wis., lumbered
down Route 110 Tuesday evening, a Virginia state trooper's eyes
widened. Perhaps expecting the wurst, he flipped on his flashing
lights and pulled over the lost dog.

Traffic on the busy road that runs along the Potomac River backed up
for a short time as people craned their heads and gawked, obviously
relishing the sight of the Wienermobile getting busted.

A passing motorist gave a frank appraisal of the sausage pilot's
gaffe.

“Everyone around here knows you don't bring trucks on that road, and
it wasn't just any truck, it was the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile,” said
Carrie Witt, who was driving to her home in Alexandria, Va., after
visiting a friend.

At the Wienermobile wheel were Will Keller and Paula Pendleton, both
22 and recent college graduates from Illinois and California, who had
just finished the two-week-long Hot Dog High at Oscar Mayer
headquarters in Madison.

Packed in the back of the Wienermobile, which will travel throughout
the East for a year, were boxes of Wienermobile whistles, Wienermobile
Hot Wheels, Wienermobile-shaped Beanie Babies and a karaoke machine
featuring the Oscar Mayer wiener and bologna jingles.

- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/weird_news/3517405.htm

[Chalo]

(Luigi de Guzman) wrote:

> OK, so all the motorcycle cops I see are on Harleys. But I like
> motorcycle cops. Who didn't, after seeing Erik Estrada in CHiPs?

Off'cer Ponch rode a Kawasaki.

The best thing about that show was the number of cars that exploded
into huge fireballs. If only 'twere so....

Chalo Colina

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:47:13 -0400,
>, archer
> wrote:

>Why can't I get that same jersey in a nice bright
>yellow or hi-viz color without all the advertising on it?

You can. Just look around. There's even a few with some tastefully
artsy designs instead of the cartoon type motifs.
--
zk

[Bill Davidson]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
> members of?

The same reason people wear jerseys from their favorite football,
basketball and baseball teams. I admit the advertising does make
it seem more crass and I personally would never do it but some
people seem to like it. I can't see paying the extra high prices
they pay for these things when you can get clothes of the same
quality without all the ugly advertising for less money but that's
just me.

> Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
> not even on the team or don't even race? What was the appeal of
> buying a bike with some road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?

They are good bikes in the same price range as similar quality bikes.
Why not get them if one is in the market for that type of bike and
has the budget for it?

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

[Stephen Harding]

Phil wrote:

> Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> > Roadside Artist wrote:
> >
> > > "Stephen Harding" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > | The appeal of the Harley isn't its technological wonders. Not especially
> > > | wondrous at all.
> > > |
> > > | It's the mystique! There's a reason why every Hog sent for sale in Japan
> > > | is sold when it arrives. It ain't because it's a better bike than what
> > > | the Japanese produce!
> > >
> > > You mean, it's a substitute for an adequate-sized dick?
> >
> > That might be most of the explanation, although there are a
> > significant number of women who love Hogs too.
> >
> > Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
> > members of?
>
> Jerseys are functional quality clothing.

Somebody's logo, name or team makes them quality?

> > Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
> > not even on the team or don't even race?
>
> Because they wanted Trek's best bike.

Have my doubts about that. Trek's most expensive bike perhaps, not
really certain, but I think you pay a bit more for that frame simply
because of the paint and lettering, not any real functional performance
enhancement.

Mike can probably correct me if I'm way off here.

> > What was the appeal of
> > buying a bike with some road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?
>
> Also good bikes.

Made even "better" by the application of someone's name I'd venture.

> > One need not focus on the motor vehicle industry to find examples
> > of image directing consumption in people so lacking in sense of
> > self that they allow others to define it for them!
>
> True, but you gave poor examples. Harleys are priced like the best
> but are not among the best. That's why Harley riders are so easy to
> make fun of. They pay a huge premium for the privelege of riding an
> inferior motorcycle.

Harley's are not inferior bikes in many categories. They are high
priced because of demand, just like any other product. The quality
control of HD has dramatically improved to the current time. They look
great too. All the Japanese makers have HD clones. The V-twin is
popular because of HD (and Indian).

Can you get a more cost effective motorcycle? Absolutely. You can
get a more cost effective bicycle without picking up a USPS Trek IMHO.

A great deal of the reason behind putting someone's name on a product
is to enhance sales and get more money for it if you can. It rarely
ever makes the product better.

Stuff with Khobi Bryant's name removed from it is not suddenly inferior
merchandise, except from an association (image) issue...and that's
how the game is played. Image is everything to far too many. But
there's nothing really wrong with that as long as it doesn't become
too controlling to an individual (IMO).


SMH

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:50:04 -0400,
>, archer
> wrote:

>There's nothing wrong with a person putting their name their product.

What if it's not their product at all?

http://www.cervelo.com/images/lyne_bessette_finis.jpg
--
zk

[Bob M]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:00:02 -0700, Bill Davidson >
wrote:

> Stephen Harding wrote:
>> Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
>> members of?
>
> The same reason people wear jerseys from their favorite football,
> basketball and baseball teams. I admit the advertising does make
> it seem more crass and I personally would never do it but some
> people seem to like it. I can't see paying the extra high prices
> they pay for these things when you can get clothes of the same
> quality without all the ugly advertising for less money but that's
> just me.
>
> > Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
>> not even on the team or don't even race? What was the appeal of
>> buying a bike with some road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?
>
> They are good bikes in the same price range as similar quality bikes.
> Why not get them if one is in the market for that type of bike and
> has the budget for it?
>
> --Bill Davidson

I bought a LeMond for its geometry. It puts you further back behind the
pedals, which I like and was not possible with my Trek.

--
Bob M in CT
Remove 'x.' to reply

[Rick Onanian]

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:03:26 -0300, Chris Phillipo <cphillipo@ramsays-
online.coim> wrote:
>> The Corvette is so much better that it is had to imagine.
>
> It's shaped like a penis so that there can be no mistake why the onwer
> purchased it.

I can't imagine a penis shaped like that...but if
that's what yours is like, well, good for you. You
might consider a freak show. <G>

--
Rick Onanian

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:47:13 -0400,
> >, archer
> > wrote:
>
> >Why can't I get that same jersey in a nice bright
> >yellow or hi-viz color without all the advertising on it?
>
> You can. Just look around. There's even a few with some tastefully
> artsy designs instead of the cartoon type motifs.

Can you point out any to me? I couldn't find many in Nashbar or
Performance. There are lots of cheaper (in quality) ones around. Most
of the high-quality ones I've seen have the logos and ads on them.



--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:50:04 -0400,
> >, archer
> > wrote:
>
> >There's nothing wrong with a person putting their name their product.
>
> What if it's not their product at all?

Well then it's just stupid. Marketing actually, if there's a difference
<G,D&R>


> http://www.cervelo.com/images/lyne_bessette_finis.jpg

That's not a LeMond bike? There's no way I could tell just by looking.


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

[Russ Price]

wrote:
> Police fear wurst, halt Wienermobile near Pentagon
>
> MILWAUKEE - It's the most famous motorized sausage in the nation, but
> even the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile can't drive on a restricted road
> next to the Pentagon.

I wonder if any of the recumbent streamliner pilots have approached
Oscar Mayer about building an HPW (Human Powered Wienermobile)?

--
Russ --kill the wabbit
"...remember that shrink-wrapping the average stick-built suburban bung-
alow against anthrax, VX and radioactive fallout is akin to rolling a
rubber on before diving naked into a shark tank full of blood." -Patrick O'Grady

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:06:30 -0400,
>, David Kerber
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:47:13 -0400,
>> >, archer
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Why can't I get that same jersey in a nice bright
>> >yellow or hi-viz color without all the advertising on it?
>>
>> You can. Just look around. There's even a few with some tastefully
>> artsy designs instead of the cartoon type motifs.
>
>Can you point out any to me? I couldn't find many in Nashbar or
>Performance. There are lots of cheaper (in quality) ones around. Most
>of the high-quality ones I've seen have the logos and ads on them.

The maker's logo is fairly discreet but they all have one.

http://www.sugoi.ca/sugoimain/main.aspx?sectionID=446
http://tinyurl.com/jpwc

REI and MEC sell some plain jerseys.

Hind, Pearl Izumi, Zoic, Canari, Cannondale, Descente. . . etc. They
all make lots of plain ones
http://tinyurl.com/jpx6
--
zk

[Zoot Katz]

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:10:03 -0400,
>, David Kerber
> wrote:

>> http://www.cervelo.com/images/lyne_bessette_finis.jpg
>
>That's not a LeMond bike? There's no way I could tell just by looking.

It's always been the case with many factory sponsored teams. The
frames are built by hand by masters and painted to look like the
production bikes.
--
zk

[Pete]

"Kevan Smith" /\/\> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:40:15 GMT, Russ Price
>
> from Flood Control Dam Number Three wrote:
>
> >I wonder if any of the recumbent streamliner pilots have approached
> >Oscar Mayer about building an HPW (Human Powered Wienermobile)?
>
> 'Bents are _already_ wiener mobiles.
>
> Ba Da Bing!
>
> Thank you. I'm here all week.

Don't give up your day job.

Pete

[Hunrobe]

>Stephen Harding

wrote in part:

>One need not focus on the motor vehicle industry to find examples
>of image directing consumption in people so lacking in sense of
>self that they allow others to define it for them!

OTOH, some of us just like the looks of some teams' uniforms.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

[Fabrizio Mazzoleni]

Stephen Harding wrote in message >...
>What was the appeal of buying a bike with some
>road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?

Stevie, when was the last time you had a
good bowel movement?

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article .net>,
"mary wells-knecht" > wrote:

> Only problem I have with HDs is the noise (not all of them but most).
> Totally ruins the experience of riding in the mountains when you get a large
> group of these noise-polluting people approaching you. Not sure why these
> riders think it is cool to pump out tons of noise. I guess they have the
> same mentality of a child who attaches playing cards in bicycle spokes to
> make noise so they appear cool. For a child it may be cool. For an adult,
> it's just plain stupid.

In fairness to the Motor Company (though not the riders) stock Harleys
are incredibly quiet. The bad news is that almost no riders leave them
stock.


--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

[Sorni]

"Kevan Smith" /\/\> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:40:15 GMT, Russ Price
>
> from Flood Control Dam Number Three wrote:
>
> >I wonder if any of the recumbent streamliner pilots have approached
> >Oscar Mayer about building an HPW (Human Powered Wienermobile)?
>
> 'Bents are _already_ wiener mobiles.
>
> Ba Da Bing!
>
> Thank you. I'm here all week.

Seems more like a month :)

[Phil]

Though your out there trashing Harley riders, I'll tell you I'd rather hear the
rumble of a Harley pass me by than the searing sound of the tires of an SUV at
60+ mph three feet off my elbow.

In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or socialized at
a break stop with me. In my five years of Harley riding I have dozens and
dozens of encounters with all kinds of folks that want to chat about everything
and anything. Sometimes its almost annoying, because a two minute gas-up can
turn into a thirty minute conversation. It kind of like motorcyclists say, " If
I have to explain, you wouldn"t understand."

You may say you hate us and that we are fat and penis short, but deep inside
we're a mystery. I get waves from children all the time in cars with their
folks and along the sidewalks. No kids have every waved at me on the bicycle. I
get waves from people walking down the street, and folks sitting on their
porches, or cutting their grass, or plowing their fields. I get hundreds of
waves from other motorcylist as I travel. I barely get a head nod from a
fellow bicyclists.

Bicycling is a great sport. I love it as much as the Harley riding. I have
the best of two good worlds. But trashing Harley riders...I don't know...don't
knock what you haven't tried.

AFAS the Lance Armstrong thread in Rec. Harley...I wouldn't be bringing that
newsgroup here...oh my... But I will jump over and take a read. Those guys
can scorch the teflon off a good quality frying pan.

Phil
'99Xlh1200
2001flhri
'81 Yamaha Exciter
Cannondale 2.8
Treck Touring
Cannondale Mountain
(Harveywallbanger)

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:06:30 -0400,
> >, David Kerber
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> says...
> >> Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:47:13 -0400,
> >> >, archer
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Why can't I get that same jersey in a nice bright
> >> >yellow or hi-viz color without all the advertising on it?
> >>
> >> You can. Just look around. There's even a few with some tastefully
> >> artsy designs instead of the cartoon type motifs.
> >
> >Can you point out any to me? I couldn't find many in Nashbar or
> >Performance. There are lots of cheaper (in quality) ones around. Most
> >of the high-quality ones I've seen have the logos and ads on them.
>
> The maker's logo is fairly discreet but they all have one.

I don't mind a manufacturer's logo; it's just all the other advertising
which bugs me to no end!


> http://www.sugoi.ca/sugoimain/main.aspx?sectionID=446
> http://tinyurl.com/jpwc
>
> REI and MEC sell some plain jerseys.
>
> Hind, Pearl Izumi, Zoic, Canari, Cannondale, Descente. . . etc. They
> all make lots of plain ones
> http://tinyurl.com/jpx6

Thanks, ZK; I check these out!



--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[Stephen Harding]

Phil wrote:

> Bicycling is a great sport. I love it as much as the Harley riding. I have
> the best of two good worlds. But trashing Harley riders...I don't know...don't
> knock what you haven't tried.

Not sure why this NG seems to like to so vilify and negatively stereotype
certain groups. SUV/light truck owners from the four wheel motoring crowd,
and HD riders from the motorcyclist pool.

Don't know if it was just the times, but when I was motorcycling, virtually
*every* motorcyclist you encountered on the road would give you a little
wave, irrespective of the brand or size bike you rode. Sort a fraternity.

Don't seem to get anything close to that camaraderie from fellow bicyclists
going the other way, and to me anyways, it seems the more "race looking" the
rider, the less likely to get a return nod or wave.

Of course I may be soliciting the most negative of interactions because of
my very clear "Fredly" manner of riding (cutoff jeans, t-shirt, Teva sandals,
and broad brimmed hat, all aboard a heavy commuting/touring bike with all
sorts of junk bolted to it).

Some of the hogs around here are exceptionally loud, but I really like the
look and [mostly] sound of the HD beast. A real piece of sculptured steel
that I can very much admire and appreciate, even though I personally no
longer have any desire whatsoever to own one.


SMH

[Stephen Harding]

Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:

> Stephen Harding wrote in message >...
> >What was the appeal of buying a bike with some
> >road racer's name (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?
>
> Stevie, when was the last time you had a
> good bowel movement?

Didn't think you'd be interested in that sort of info Fab!

I do understand I'm probably blaspheming to you in questioning
the value of products linked to great racer's names though.

Since we're talking high end pedals, how pricey is a "Mazzoleni"
these days?


SMH

[Robin Hubert]

"Phil" > wrote in message
...
> Though your out there trashing Harley riders, I'll tell you I'd rather
hear the
> rumble of a Harley pass me by than the searing sound of the tires of an
SUV at
> 60+ mph three feet off my elbow.
>
> In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or
socialized at
> a break stop with me. In my five years of Harley riding I have dozens and
> dozens of encounters with all kinds of folks that want to chat about
everything
> and anything. Sometimes its almost annoying, because a two minute gas-up
can
> turn into a thirty minute conversation. It kind of like motorcyclists say,
" If
> I have to explain, you wouldn"t understand."
>
> You may say you hate us and that we are fat and penis short, but deep
inside
> we're a mystery. I get waves from children all the time in cars with
their
> folks and along the sidewalks. No kids have every waved at me on the
bicycle. I
> get waves from people walking down the street, and folks sitting on their
> porches, or cutting their grass, or plowing their fields. I get hundreds
of
> waves from other motorcylist as I travel. I barely get a head nod from a
> fellow bicyclists.

Folks would wave at you on your bicycle if you wore a clown suit. ;-)

> Bicycling is a great sport. I love it as much as the Harley riding. I
have
> the best of two good worlds. But trashing Harley riders...I don't
know...don't
> knock what you haven't tried.

That's a big presumption.

> AFAS the Lance Armstrong thread in Rec. Harley...I wouldn't be bringing
that
> newsgroup here...oh my... But I will jump over and take a read. Those
guys
> can scorch the teflon off a good quality frying pan.
>


--
Robin Hubert >

[Roadside Artist]

Nah, Phil, it was a *joke* ... humor... not meant seriously.

Get it?

I don't really have anything against Harley riders and like you I figure at
least they're smaller and create less turbulence than an SUV.

Since it was brought up, I DO think that there is a lot of "posing" involved
in Harley ownership today, but you know in many ways we are all just posing
in life. So big deal.




The Roadside Artist

[Mark Hickey]

Stephen Harding > wrote:

>If just painting "USPS" really makes it a better bike, then Trek can really
>score big by getting Lance to allow them to paint "Armstrong" on all their
>bike frames!
>
>"USPS" is a selling point for Trek solely because of the very well known
>relationship between Trek, Team USPS, and Lance Armstrong.
>
>That doesn't seem any more underhanded to me than someone selling HD
>motorcycles because of images of Hell's Angels, Easy Rider, James Dean,
>Steve McQueen or police and military motorcycles from the 30/40/50's.
>
>For many, image is a far more powerful salesman than functionality or even
>quality, and we are *all* susceptible to it in varying degrees.

Don't tell me that big "3" I painted on the side of my Monte Carlo
doesn't make it go faster... ;-)

Mark "doesn't really have a Monte Carlo" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Zoot Katz]

Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:44:11 -0400, >,
Stephen Harding > wrote:

>Phil wrote:
>
>> Bicycling is a great sport. I love it as much as the Harley riding. I have
>> the best of two good worlds. But trashing Harley riders...I don't know...don't
>> knock what you haven't tried.
>
>Not sure why this NG seems to like to so vilify and negatively stereotype
>certain groups. SUV/light truck owners from the four wheel motoring crowd,
>and HD riders from the motorcyclist pool.
>
Past experiences with said drivers of said vehicles tend to colour
one's opinions. Also, many more of the SUV, 4X4 and pick-up drivers
are driving vehicles that are totally unsuited for their requirements
but they drive them chiefly for their "image" factor. That image
includes their desire to appear intimidating to other road users. You
might agree that many of the macho dweebs driving monster trucks just
haven't got the talent to play electric guitar in a big-hair metal
band so they get a macho truck to compensate.

Now that Harleys are increasingly ridden by the same asswipes that
carelessly pilot their trendy status cages with a sense of exclusive
entitlement, they're still asswipes and carry with them their
attitude. They never become "bikers" in their soul.

>Don't know if it was just the times, but when I was motorcycling, virtually
>*every* motorcyclist you encountered on the road would give you a little
>wave, irrespective of the brand or size bike you rode. Sort a fraternity.
>
When I was riding motorcycles in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, Harley
riders were _always_ the last to wave to motorcyclists riding any
other brand but Harleys. Most of 'em didn't wave back and so rarely
did they initiate the wave, that I always figured they were elitists.
When I was running the hack, most motorcyclists, regardless of marque,
returned waves while many drivers and pedestrians too initiated waves.

>Don't seem to get anything close to that camaraderie from fellow bicyclists
>going the other way, and to me anyways, it seems the more "race looking" the
>rider, the less likely to get a return nod or wave.

I've met literally hundreds of friendly people riding bikes and in the
past three years have made several new friends through our common
passion for cycling. Of all of the cyclists I know, most don't race
and rbr has a noticeably greater percentage of bigger assholes than
the rest of these bike wreck groups combined. Fab's parodies of the
attitude is the most poignant critique of their common behaviour.

My theory is that racers and recreational mountian bikers don't spend
enough quality time in the saddle and too much time driving to places
they can play bike. The bicycle never transports their spirit.
--
zk

[Zoot Katz]

12 Aug 2003 10:50:37 GMT,
>,
(Phil) wrote:

>In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or socialized at
>a break stop with me.

Sorry to hear that. I've met hundreds of people cycling. All of my new
friends ride bikes. In fact, if you don't ride, I don't particularly
care to know you at all.

Bicycles are a universal language and a great equaliser because, try
as you might, you just can't bull**** a bicycle. I don't think this
new breed of Harley riders embrace that much egalitarianism on the
road. They've invested in status icons and frankly they're laughable.

My participation in the rmh Lance thread was spurred by the attitude
displayed by some of the posters claiming bicycles don't belong on the
road. That's plain bull**** and the same sort of ignorance motivating
the dangerously hostile prejudice some cagers demonstrate toward
motorcyclists. When confronted with that attitude espoused by so
called "motorcyclists", I had to conclude they're poseurs.
As a "biker", I won't take that bull**** on the road or on USENET.
--
zk

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> 12 Aug 2003 10:50:37 GMT,
> >,
> (Phil) wrote:
>
> >In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or socialized at
> >a break stop with me.
>
> Sorry to hear that. I've met hundreds of people cycling. All of my new
> friends ride bikes.

Me, too. Last night I was shooting the breeze with several people while
waiting in the start line for the local TT. They were all friendly, and
even the ones with the fanciest equipment (aero helmets, disk wheels, the
works!) didn't seem at all put off by my old LeTank complete with
kickstand.

.....

--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[Tom Keats]

In article >,
David Kerber > writes:

> Me, too. Last night I was shooting the breeze with several people while
> waiting in the start line for the local TT. They were all friendly, and
> even the ones with the fanciest equipment (aero helmets, disk wheels, the
> works!) didn't seem at all put off by my old LeTank complete with
> kickstand.

I sometimes get fellow riders hauling up alongside me and
asking if they could give my rubber bulb horn a honk.

It's a pretty good ice breaker.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

[Bill Davidson]

Phil wrote:
> In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or socialized at
> a break stop with me.

It happens to me all time time. I talk to tons of people at lights
and even in bike lanes. Sometimes I'll start talking to a total
stranger and we'll ride together for miles. Cyclists wave or nod to
each other all the time here. Where do you ride?

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

[David Kerber]

In article <Laf_a.56636$Ne.33804@fed1read03>,
says...

....

> stranger and we'll ride together for miles. Cyclists wave or nod to
> each other all the time here. Where do you ride?

That's my experience, too.

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

[Mark Jones]

"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
> Past experiences with said drivers of said vehicles tend to colour
> one's opinions. Also, many more of the SUV, 4X4 and pick-up drivers
> are driving vehicles that are totally unsuited for their requirements
> but they drive them chiefly for their "image" factor. That image
> includes their desire to appear intimidating to other road users. You
> might agree that many of the macho dweebs driving monster trucks just
> haven't got the talent to play electric guitar in a big-hair metal
> band so they get a macho truck to compensate.
Your comments make me want to go trade in my Ford Ranger
for a Ford F-450 dual rear wheel truck just so I could be even
less like you. Maybe even an F-550. The bigger, the better.

[Zoot Katz]

Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:27:35 -0500,
>, "Mark Jones" >
wrote:

>Your comments make me want to go trade in my Ford Ranger
>for a Ford F-450 dual rear wheel truck just so I could be even
>less like you. Maybe even an F-550. The bigger, the better.
>

Save yourself the hassle. You can be most assuredly certain that I
could never be mistaken for a guy that would drive a plastic chebby.
--
zk

[Zoot Katz]

Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:18:55 -0500,
>, "Mark Jones" >
wrote:

>"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
>> Save yourself the hassle. You can be most assuredly certain that I
>> could never be mistaken for a guy that would drive a plastic chebby.
>Exactly. You couldn't afford one.
>
You're right, I can think of far more efficient ways to lose $27,000
over five years.
--
zk

[Phil]

>Phil wrote:
>> In my twnety plus years of bike riding, no one has ever talked or
>socialized at
>> a break stop with me.
>
>It happens to me all time time. I talk to tons of people at lights
>and even in bike lanes. Sometimes I'll start talking to a total
>stranger and we'll ride together for miles. Cyclists wave or nod to
>each other all the time here. Where do you ride?
>
>--Bill Davidson
>--
South central NY now. But have ridden in VA, W(BG)VA, ME, PA, NJ. When I did
organized bike rides sure folks talked. But, nope, rarely if ever does one say
anything when at breaks. I'm not out to chat, and that could be it, but I'm
not out to chat when I'm on the motorcyle.

Not that we want to go there, I feel more safer on the motorcyle than I do on
the bicycle.

I just heard a Harley rumble by, :O)

Phil
(Harveywallbanger)

[Mark Jones]

"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
...
> Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:18:55 -0500,
> >, "Mark Jones" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Zoot Katz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Save yourself the hassle. You can be most assuredly certain that I
> >> could never be mistaken for a guy that would drive a plastic chebby.
> >Exactly. You couldn't afford one.
> >
> You're right, I can think of far more efficient ways to lose $27,000
> over five years.
I haven't lost any money. I don't intend to sell mine.

[Harley]

A stock Harley isn't that annoying. The noisy ones have had the baffles
removed, They must feel faster than a 350 2-stroke that way. ~h~

[Phil]

Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> > >
> > > Why do some bicyclists wear jerseys from teams they are not
> > > members of?
> >
> > Jerseys are functional quality clothing.
>
> Somebody's logo, name or team makes them quality?

Of course not, but every team jersey I've seen is indeed quality
clothing.
>
> > > Why would someone buy a Trek USPS frame if they are
> > > not even on the team or don't even race?
> >
> > Because they wanted Trek's best bike.
>
> Have my doubts about that. Trek's most expensive bike perhaps, not
> really certain, but I think you pay a bit more for that frame simply
> because of the paint and lettering, not any real functional performance
> enhancement.
>
> Mike can probably correct me if I'm way off here.

After looking, I found Trek has several bikes available in "team
colors" at no additional cost. I no longer see any USPS versions on
their website. The old ones may have been simply custom paint jobs,
which naturally costs somewhat more, as does their current custom
paint options and custom paint on a Harley. The difference is they
are/were top-of-the-line bikes to start with.
>
> > > What was the appeal of buying a bike with some road racer's name
> > > (Lemonde, Merkx) on it?
> >
> > Also good bikes.
>
> Made even "better" by the application of someone's name I'd venture.

Who said that? I merely stated they are good bikes.

> > > One need not focus on the motor vehicle industry to find examples
> > > of image directing consumption in people so lacking in sense of
> > > self that they allow others to define it for them!
> >
> > True, but you gave poor examples. Harleys are priced like the best
> > but are not among the best. That's why Harley riders are so easy to
> > make fun of. They pay a huge premium for the privelege of riding an
> > inferior motorcycle.
>
> Harley's are not inferior bikes in many categories.

That is your opinion. I would argue they are inferior in most
catagories.

> They are high
> priced because of demand, just like any other product. The quality
> control of HD has dramatically improved to the current time. They look
> great too. All the Japanese makers have HD clones. The V-twin is
> popular because of HD (and Indian).
>
> Can you get a more cost effective motorcycle? Absolutely. You can
> get a more cost effective bicycle without picking up a USPS Trek IMHO.
>
Again, the USPS Trek is (was?) a top of the line bike. Harleys only
cost so much because of demand. Big difference.
>
> A great deal of the reason behind putting someone's name on a product
> is to enhance sales and get more money for it if you can. It rarely
> ever makes the product better.

But usually it's the best products that have the best "names".
Usually.
>
> Stuff with Khobi Bryant's name removed from it is not suddenly inferior
> merchandise, except from an association (image) issue...and that's
> how the game is played. Image is everything to far too many. But
> there's nothing really wrong with that as long as it doesn't become
> too controlling to an individual (IMO).

I see your point, and am not arguing it, in fact I agree. I'm just
saying you used poor examples, as the ones you mentioned are normally
worth their price as quality products.

[Mark Hickey]

Stephen Harding > wrote:

>Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> Stephen Harding > wrote:
>>
>> >For many, image is a far more powerful salesman than functionality or even
>> >quality, and we are *all* susceptible to it in varying degrees.
>>
>> Don't tell me that big "3" I painted on the side of my Monte Carlo
>> doesn't make it go faster... ;-)
>
>I think the "3" means it's thee seconds faster than the competition.
>If you like drag racing the Monte Carlo, you really should have paid
>the extra coin and gone for the "9".
>
>Hint: Put "Chevy" in big letters across the top of the windshield and
>you'll be even faster!

Yeah, but does "Chevy" have to be in reverse letters so the drivers
ahead of me can read it in their mirrors? Errrr, wait a minute, there
shouldn't BE any drivers ahead of me...

Mark "still doesn't really have a Monte Carlo" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:01:20 -0400, Stephen Harding
> wrote:


>My comments were concerning "mystique" as applied to the value of a
>Harley Davidson motorcycle. Using that mystique as an aid to marketing
>the product isn't limited to the motoring world. It's part of bicycling
>too!

Harley-Davidson's goal was "taking the work out of bicycling".

[sec]

On 8 Aug 2003 14:55:49 -0700, (Luigi de Guzman)
wrote:

>So they're loud and obnoxious. Fine. But how *common* are they?

Very common! Try being awakened _every night_ at precisely 02:10 (10
minutes after the local bars close) when they come blasting by your
house. Sleep deprevation can ruin lives Luigi!

[Rick Onanian]

On 16 Aug 2003 09:24:12 -0700, Alexey Merz > wrote:
>> I would never want to
>> be without a truck after owning one for three years.
>
> It's just a tool, not a part of your personality. Isn't it?

I don't know about him, but my truck is certainly
a part of my personality. I've accessorized it to
my taste, and people know it's me when I show up.

Further, it is the most comfortable and versatile
way I can ever go anywhere and/or carry anything.

> -Alex
--
Rick Onanian

[Mark Jones]

"Rick Onanian" > wrote in message
...
> On 16 Aug 2003 09:24:12 -0700, Alexey Merz > wrote:
> >> I would never want to
> >> be without a truck after owning one for three years.
> >
> > It's just a tool, not a part of your personality. Isn't it?
>
> I don't know about him, but my truck is certainly
> a part of my personality. I've accessorized it to
> my taste, and people know it's me when I show up.
>
> Further, it is the most comfortable and versatile
> way I can ever go anywhere and/or carry anything.
I have a car, truck and 2 bicycles. I do not plan to
get rid of any of them. My Corvette has been customized
a little to make it more powerful and able to corner
a lot better than stock.

The bicycle only group can do that if they want to,
but I would never consider it at all.

[Phil]

>Try riding a recumbent lowracer or trike, if you want to get lots of
>annoying questions - I am tempted to go back to riding uprights just so
>I can be anonymous.
>
>Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom...

There's a few recumbent riders here, and I have passed them on the MC and guess
what...they all wave and of course I wave back, but I was surprised the first
time. It must be because they look cool and interesting.

What is your average speed on a typical ride on your recumbent?

Phil
(Harveywallbanger)

[Tom Sherman]

Phil wrote:
>
> >Try riding a recumbent lowracer or trike, if you want to get lots of
> >annoying questions - I am tempted to go back to riding uprights just so
> >I can be anonymous.
> >
> >Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
>
> Tom...
>
> There's a few recumbent riders here, and I have passed them on the MC and guess
> what...they all wave and of course I wave back, but I was surprised the first
> time. It must be because they look cool and interesting.
>
> What is your average speed on a typical ride on your recumbent?

I probably should not answer this, as it could ignite an uprights vs.
recumbents flame war. ;)

My average speeds vary greatly - on a recent invitational ride on my
trike (designed more for comfort than speed) I averaged a little over 12
mph (~20 kph). I was not putting out a high effort, however.

On another invitational ride along the Illinois River valley, I averaged
almost 18 mph (~30 kph) over 108 miles (~175 km) on my lowracer.

It should be noted that I spend far too much time working, and too
little time riding, so I am not that fit of a rider.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

[Alexey Merz]

Rick Onanian > wrote in message >...
> On 16 Aug 2003 09:24:12 -0700, Alexey Merz > wrote:
> >> I would never want to
> >> be without a truck after owning one for three years.
> >
> > It's just a tool, not a part of your personality. Isn't it?
>
> I don't know about him, but my truck is certainly
> a part of my personality. I've accessorized it to
> my taste, and people know it's me when I show up.

Hmm. I was bought up to take pride in my relationships, integrity,
abilities and accomplishments, not in inanimate objects. I guess you
were borught up with different values.

-Alex

[Alexey Merz]

(Alexey Merz) wrote in message
[...]
> but in truth the less I use the
> damn car the happier I am. Not least because I do not enjoy funding
> the Saudi regime, which seems to produce two products: oil, and people
> who want to kill me. By the way, those people would like to kill you,
> too. How do *you* feel about enriching these folks every time you turn
> the ignition key?

I note that the replies so far have snipped this question. Why not?
Cat got your tongues?

[Eric S. Sande]

>I note that the replies so far have snipped this question. Why not?
>Cat got your tongues?

Under the Constitution, in the United States of America, you can be
put to death for treason. This is applied most stringently in times
of war. Any questions should be referred to your nearest governmental
authority.

This does not apply to Canada or France, of course.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------

[Sorni]

"Alexey Merz" > wrote in message
m...
> Rick Onanian > wrote in message
>...
> > On 16 Aug 2003 09:24:12 -0700, Alexey Merz > wrote:
> > >> I would never want to
> > >> be without a truck after owning one for three years.
> > >
> > > It's just a tool, not a part of your personality. Isn't it?
> >
> > I don't know about him, but my truck is certainly
> > a part of my personality. I've accessorized it to
> > my taste, and people know it's me when I show up.
>
> Hmm. I was bought up to take pride in my relationships, integrity,
> abilities and accomplishments, not in inanimate objects. I guess you
> were borught up with different values.

You left out smug and judgmental. Your upbringing obviously taught you
those, too.

Bill "and Rick's spellchecker works, too" S.

[Mark Jones]

"Alexey Merz" > wrote in message
m...
> Rick Onanian > wrote in message
>...
> > On 16 Aug 2003 09:24:12 -0700, Alexey Merz > wrote:
> > >> I would never want to
> > >> be without a truck after owning one for three years.
> > >
> > > It's just a tool, not a part of your personality. Isn't it?
> >
> > I don't know about him, but my truck is certainly
> > a part of my personality. I've accessorized it to
> > my taste, and people know it's me when I show up.
>
> Hmm. I was bought up to take pride in my relationships, integrity,
> abilities and accomplishments, not in inanimate objects. I guess you
> were borught up with different values.
I take pride in these things and more. It appears that
you don't like as many things as I do.

[Mark Jones]

"Alexey Merz" > wrote in message
m...
> (Alexey Merz) wrote in message
> [...]
> > but in truth the less I use the
> > damn car the happier I am. Not least because I do not enjoy funding
> > the Saudi regime, which seems to produce two products: oil, and people
> > who want to kill me. By the way, those people would like to kill you,
> > too. How do *you* feel about enriching these folks every time you turn
> > the ignition key?
>
> I note that the replies so far have snipped this question. Why not?
> Cat got your tongues?
Better to take their oil now and keep ours in the
ground for use at a later date.

[Alexey Merz]

"Mark Jones" > wrote in message >...
> "Alexey Merz" > wrote in message
> m...
> > (Alexey Merz) wrote in message
> > [...]
> > > but in truth the less I use the
> > > damn car the happier I am. Not least because I do not enjoy funding
> > > the Saudi regime, which seems to produce two products: oil, and people
> > > who want to kill me. By the way, those people would like to kill you,
> > > too. How do *you* feel about enriching these folks every time you turn
> > > the ignition key?
> >
> > I note that the replies so far have snipped this question. Why not?
> > Cat got your tongues?
> Better to take their oil now and keep ours in the
> ground for use at a later date.

"Take?" You mean, "buy." As in, you pay, they profit, and put that
profit to work. Would you have bought a Volkswagen during WWII in
order to "take their vehicles now and keep ours in the garage for
future use"? Same logic.

-Alex

[David Kerber]

In article >,
says...
> "Mark Jones" > wrote in message >...
> > "Alexey Merz" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > (Alexey Merz) wrote in message
> > > [...]
> > > > but in truth the less I use the
> > > > damn car the happier I am. Not least because I do not enjoy funding
> > > > the Saudi regime, which seems to produce two products: oil, and people
> > > > who want to kill me. By the way, those people would like to kill you,
> > > > too. How do *you* feel about enriching these folks every time you turn
> > > > the ignition key?
> > >
> > > I note that the replies so far have snipped this question. Why not?
> > > Cat got your tongues?
> > Better to take their oil now and keep ours in the
> > ground for use at a later date.
>
> "Take?" You mean, "buy." As in, you pay, they profit, and put that
> profit to work. Would you have bought a Volkswagen during WWII in
> order to "take their vehicles now and keep ours in the garage for
> future use"? Same logic.

No, it's not. Oil is non-renewable; cars can be recycled and reused, or
converted into tanks and guns.


--
David Kerber
An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good
Lord, it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

[Aljan12]

Harleys only hold their value with people who might be interested in one.
Besides, Harley owners must put so much money into their bikes just to keep
them running, and this expense often cancels out a portion of the "re-sale
value" anyway.
AL

[Ron Wallenfang]

I rode my TREK in and among the Harley riders who were in Milwaukee the week
before last to celebrate their 100th anniversery. Noisy machines but
consistently polite and even deferential riders. Harley-Davidson is a
culture, not a means of transportation. Their riders are older than
average, better educated and richer. They no more expect to get their
money's worth in a narrow transportation sense than they would expect to do
that playing golf at a top private country club.

Anyway, they gave our fair city it's "place in the sun" for a brief moment.
We'll return from obscurity for their 105th in 2008. In the meantime, we'll
just have to keep "TREK-ing" along.


"Bill Kizer" > wrote in message
om...
> (Phil) wrote in message .
> >
> > Any gearhead knows better. Harleys are the most over rated
> > motorcycles on the road today. Mechanically, they are as advanced and
> > as reliable as an Edsel. Why people buy them is a mystery to me. I
> > always buy quality over image. Of course, most Harley riders are all
> > about image, obviously.
> >
> > I checked resale values and depreciation. Yes they are good in
> > percentage of original cost, but that pecentage usually adds up to
> > just as much and often more in actual dollars as the depreciation of
> > cheaper (and better) bikes.
> >
> > law-abiding and considerate to those around them.
> >
> > >
> > > Have a great weekend. Personally, I'm looking forward to a couple of
hours
> > > cycling in Birds Hill Park tomorrow, against the wind and up hill all
the
> > > way.
>
>
> Hey PHIL -
>
> **** YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS DISCUSSION POSTING!!!
>
> I AM ON CRACK AND FLYING HIGH ON MY BMW R5 - I LOVE IT!!
>
> wiLD bILL kIZER - CALL ME COLLECT 760 518 2493

[Mark Hickey]

(Phil) wrote:

(Bill Kizer) wrote in message >...
>
>> >
>> > Hey PHIL -
>> >
>> > **** YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS DISCUSSION POSTING!!!
>
>Nice argument. Boy, you sure proved me wrong. How old are you Bill,
>about 12? Can you even reach the foot pegs?
>
>> >
>> > I AM ON CRACK AND FLYING HIGH ON MY BMW R5 - I LOVE IT!!
>
>Figured as much.
>
>> >
>> > wiLD bILL kIZER - CALL ME COLLECT 760 555 2493
>
>If you can't write anything worthwhile, what makes you think someone
>would bother calling?

Phil, you need to attend a troll recognition class... the only other
thing "bill" could have done is open his message with "the following
is a troll"... Obviously whoever DID send the message wants to annoy
the "real Bill Kizer" at that phone number (which I changed to prevent
spreading the problem any futher).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

[Bill Kizer]

Mark Hickey > wrote in message >...
> (Phil) wrote:
>
> (Bill Kizer) wrote in message >...
> >
> >> >
> >> > Hey PHIL -
> >> >
> >> > **** YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS DISCUSSION POSTING!!!
> >
> >> > I AM ON CRACK AND FLYING HIGH ON MY BMW R5 - I LOVE IT!!

> >> > wiLD bILL kIZER - CALL ME COLLECT 760 555 2493
>
> Phil, you need to attend a troll recognition class... the only other
> thing "bill" could have done is open his message with "the following
> is a troll"... Obviously whoever DID send the message wants to annoy
> the "real Bill Kizer" at that phone number (which I changed to prevent
> spreading the problem any futher).
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycles
> http://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $695 ti frame

Hey Mark,

What are you, an asshole too!!! I am the REAL Bill Kizer. Call the
boys up at Orange County cruisers and they will tell you about the
$75K custom bike tha tI crashed in CA. WHa tthe **** do I need a $695
frame for? I don't buy cheap **** asshole!!!

Wild Bill Kizer at 760 - 518 -2493.

I have a COPO 69 Camaro for sale at $115K!!!

[Golightly F.]

"Bill Kizer" >
> What are you, an asshole too!!! I am the REAL Bill Kizer. Call the
> boys up at Orange County cruisers and they will tell you about the
> $75K custom bike tha tI crashed in CA.

Ahh... that would be Orange County Choppers... and their not in CA. And...
real custom bikes are in the $150K range.

hth

[Bill Kizer]

"Golightly F." > wrote in message >...
> "Bill Kizer" >
> > What are you, an asshole too!!! I am the REAL Bill Kizer. Call the
> > boys up at Orange County cruisers and they will tell you about the
> > $75K custom bike tha tI crashed in CA.
>
> Ahh... that would be Orange County Choppers... and their not in CA. And...
> real custom bikes are in the $150K range.
>
> hth

You stupid **** - I got the bike ten years ago way before they made it
big on cable!!

I'll sell yu my bike for $100k - how's that asshole.

You got the cash, I got the crack!! yeah... golightly you little
prick *******!

Wild Bill!!!

[Rick Onanian]

I must have missed this the first time around, but...
>> "Bill Kizer" >
>> > What are you, an asshole too!!! I am the REAL Bill Kizer. Call the

I'm Bill Kizer, the real Bill Kizer, so all you other Bill Kizers
are just a piece of shizer. Will the real Bill Kizer please ride
up, please ride up, please ride up....
--
Rick "I've never actually heard the original, just parodies" Onanian

[Bill Kizer]

Rick Onanian > wrote in message >...
> I must have missed this the first time around, but...
> >> "Bill Kizer" >
> >> > What are you, an asshole too!!! I am the REAL Bill Kizer. Call the
>
> I'm Bill Kizer, the real Bill Kizer, so all you other Bill Kizers
> are just a piece of shizer. Will the real Bill Kizer please ride
> up, please ride up, please ride up....


Hey Rick why don't you go **** yourself and talk to my manboy -

Talk to Howie at

You are so ****ING stupid!!!

WIld Bill Kizer on CRACK!!!