Re: See you on the "other side"...

[Sorni]

"Westie" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sorni" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > ...(sorta in a Frank Burns voice if you know the M*A*S*H episode)
> >
> > Well, after 6+ weeks, the "Dell from Hell" has finally arrived (very
long
> > story). So, in a few minutes I'll be unplugging my trusty-but-buggy ol'
> K62
> > that has served me pretty darned well for, what, 4 years at least,
right?
> > Then I get to set up the new system and try to actually stay connected
to
> > the world (and you blokes/blokettes :)
> >
> > Of course, the gnarly dust bunnies may consume me before I even get to
> plug
> > in anything; however, assuming I live I'll be back here within {???}
hours
> > and we'll see what's what.
> >
> > Until then,
> >
> > Bill "dreadful anticipation" S.
> >
>
> Funny, I just plugged a new Dell in day before yesterday. It took 14 days
> to get here and they even managed to put the shipping address labels on,
> correctly, upside down, for us Southern Hemisphere folk. The battle to
set
> up the home network and transfer essential files has begun!

Well, I ordered on *MAY 18th*, and just got something yestreday. (Believe
me, VERY long story!)

Anyway, all seems to be working fine (love the 18" flat panel, even if it
proves I'm going blind); like you I have a challenge ahead getting things
"just so".

Bill "86'd the 'Saddle Sorni' (as well as S o r n i and S*O*R*N*I and Bill
Sornson and...)" S.

[J'm Sm'th]

Saddle Sorni wrote:
>
> "Sorni" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > ...(sorta in a Frank Burns voice if you know the M*A*S*H episode)
> >
> > Well, after 6+ weeks, the "Dell from Hell" has finally arrived (very long
> > story). So, in a few minutes I'll be unplugging my trusty-but-buggy ol'
> K62
> > that has served me pretty darned well for, what, 4 years at least, right?
> > Then I get to set up the new system and try to actually stay connected to
> > the world (and you blokes/blokettes :)
> >
> > Of course, the gnarly dust bunnies may consume me before I even get to
> plug
> > in anything; however, assuming I live I'll be back here within {???} hours
> > and we'll see what's what.
> >
> > Until then,
> >
> > Bill "dreadful anticipation" S.
>
> Aaack! Well, here I am...6 hours later...much tweaking to do...
>
> Bill "I hate change" S.

That's fine, I like change. Send me *all* your spare change.

--
J'm


To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes.
....-.-

[MattB]

"Technician" > wrote in message
. ..
> Westie > spoke thusly...
<snip>
>
> Note, DO NOT use the XP Internet Connection Sharing, it will take over
> your network entirely.
> --
> ~Travis

Unless, of course you have an XP machine that you want to share the Internet
from. It's not that bad, IMO. You just have to realize it has it's own DHCP
server built in, so you need to turn off any other DHCP server and let it
control the addressing scheme.

For the average home user (without a router) this is probably a good thing
because they don't usually want to mess with addressing, subnets, and that
kind of stuff.

It's a fine line between making stuff user friendly for the uninitiated
while still keeping the power users happy.

Matt

[MattB]

"Technician" > wrote in message
. ..
> MattB > spoke thusly...
> > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > Westie > spoke thusly...
<snip>
> >
>
> Like i said, it takes over the network. I do run a DHCP server, and it's
> settings are correct, where XP figures that all IP addresses other than
> itself are free for the taking. several times when my computer would be
> off, and she would turn hers on (hers is DHCP to be compatible with the
> school network), it would take my IP address so when i turn mine on, i
> get an address conflict. mine is static, as is my server, because there
> are ports that are forwarded to them.
> --
> ~Travis
>
> http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/

But you are not the intended market. How many typical families who want to
easily share their Internet connection do you think will already have a DHCP
server? Probably not very many (yes, this is an arguable point). I think the
design of this product had two primary goals, one of which I agree with and
one I don't. You can configure your own gateway and addressing scheme,
therefore you don't need it. A lot of folks can't or don't want to learn
how, so I think it's a good solution for them.

The goals are to make it easy for the novice. Almost "plug n' play", which
is how consumer gear should work.

Now they did go and make it non-configurable, so you have to use their
scheme. This plays into goal #2 which is to force you to buy Win2k Server
(and/or other server products) if you already have an addressing scheme
and/or existing DHCP server and you want to share an Internet connection.
Usually that doesn't matter because if you already have all that you are
likely to have (or not mind getting) a router/firewall that will do NAT for
you and make connection available to the LAN.

Matt

[Westie]

"Technician" > wrote in message
. ..
> MattB > spoke thusly...
> > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > MattB > spoke thusly...
> > > > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > > > . ..
> > > > > Westie > spoke thusly...
> > <snip>
> > > >
> > >
> > > Like i said, it takes over the network. I do run a DHCP server, and
it's
> > > settings are correct, where XP figures that all IP addresses other
than
> > > itself are free for the taking. several times when my computer would
be
> > > off, and she would turn hers on (hers is DHCP to be compatible with
the
> > > school network), it would take my IP address so when i turn mine on, i
> > > get an address conflict. mine is static, as is my server, because
there
> > > are ports that are forwarded to them.
> > > --
> > > ~Travis
> > >
> > > http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/
> >
> > But you are not the intended market. How many typical families who want
to
> > easily share their Internet connection do you think will already have a
DHCP
> > server? Probably not very many (yes, this is an arguable point). I think
the
> > design of this product had two primary goals, one of which I agree with
and
> > one I don't. You can configure your own gateway and addressing scheme,
> > therefore you don't need it. A lot of folks can't or don't want to learn
> > how, so I think it's a good solution for them.

Exactly the point. Who cares how it works as long as it works? It's like
making you become a mechanic if you own a car. There are a lot people that
just want to drive, not worry about how it works. Why learn about something
that, quite simply, doesn't interest you?


> Here is the solution, ICS only on the Home edition, and NAT for the Pro
> edition.
>
> >
> > The goals are to make it easy for the novice. Almost "plug n' play",
which
> > is how consumer gear should work.

Novice might not be the correct word. 'Normal user' might be a better way
of phrasing it. Why should anyone, even an experienced user, really have to
worry about their ports and addresses?
It should be like a SLR camera. A green 'idiot proof' programmed point 'n'
shoot button (plug 'n' play) and then other manual modes for the tech heads.
Usable yet flexible and powerful.


> Yes, plug n' play, but not stupid. if they had a way to turn off the
> DHCP server, i would not complain.
>
> > Now they did go and make it non-configurable, so you have to use their
> > scheme. This plays into goal #2 which is to force you to buy Win2k
Server
> > (and/or other server products) if you already have an addressing scheme
> > and/or existing DHCP server and you want to share an Internet
connection.
> > Usually that doesn't matter because if you already have all that you are
> > likely to have (or not mind getting) a router/firewall that will do NAT
for
> > you and make connection available to the LAN.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
>
> I have a linux router in the works for the entire network. i will no
> doubt have dial-up on it, though i may be able to afford DSL by then.
> --
> ~Travis
--
Westie

[Pete]

"Technician" > wrote
>
> IMO, those who own a car should know the basics. how to change oil, how
> to check oil, how to change air filter, how to change plugs, how to
> check tire pressure and top off if needed, and how to change a tire.
>
> To some, these may seem a bit much, to others, these may seem like not
> enough.
> Now, for computers, same goes. if you are going to have a network, you
> better god damn well at least know how to set up the basics like an IP
> address/subnet. and if you are setting up DHCP, know _how_ to set up
> DHCP.
>
> But that is just my opinion.

Change oil? Change plugs? That's a bit much for the average driver, Trav.
Get it wrong, and you've lunched the engine.

Changing the oil costs about $15 at Jiffoline. Doing it myself costs about
$7.
AND take care not to spill any on the driveway.
AND make sure you have all the parts/spplies before you start. (Oh
crap...this car needs a new crush washer every time you take out the drain
plug. Too bad all the oil is out, I can't go get a new one.)
AND I have to find somewhere to dispose of it.

Subnets? IP address? DHCP? Gobbldygook. I know how to do all of the above,
and you might....but most don't.
And they shouldn't need to.
For a simple sharing between home PC's, it *should* be simple. Hell...an
awful lot of people have never updated the stock antivirus def's that came
with the PC 2 years ago. Nor updated the OS. Why do you think we still get
scanned for old trojans?

I've seen far too many people that get lost past point and shoot. Some
people just *do not get it*. But those are the ones that buy stuff.

This is why Linux is not ready for prime time.

Pete
RTFM indeed

[Westie]

"Shaun Rimmer" > wrote in message
...
>
> Some people rambled:
>
> <snip!>
>
> Wow - how totally and utterly dull.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Shaun aRe
>
>

Exactly my point! Who WANTS to care about this stuff! LOL!
--
Westie

[Westie]

"Technician" > wrote in message
. ..
> Westie > spoke thusly...
> >
> > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > MattB > spoke thusly...
> > > > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > > > . ..
> > > > > MattB > spoke thusly...
> > > > > > "Technician" > wrote in message
> > > > > > . ..
> > > > > > > Westie > spoke thusly...
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Like i said, it takes over the network. I do run a DHCP server,
and
> > it's
> > > > > settings are correct, where XP figures that all IP addresses other
> > than
> > > > > itself are free for the taking. several times when my computer
would
> > be
> > > > > off, and she would turn hers on (hers is DHCP to be compatible
with
> > the
> > > > > school network), it would take my IP address so when i turn mine
on, i
> > > > > get an address conflict. mine is static, as is my server, because
> > there
> > > > > are ports that are forwarded to them.
> > > > > --
> > > > > ~Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/
> > > >
> > > > But you are not the intended market. How many typical families who
want
> > to
> > > > easily share their Internet connection do you think will already
have a
> > DHCP
> > > > server? Probably not very many (yes, this is an arguable point). I
think
> > the
> > > > design of this product had two primary goals, one of which I agree
with
> > and
> > > > one I don't. You can configure your own gateway and addressing
scheme,
> > > > therefore you don't need it. A lot of folks can't or don't want to
learn
> > > > how, so I think it's a good solution for them.
> >
> > Exactly the point. Who cares how it works as long as it works? It's
like
> > making you become a mechanic if you own a car. There are a lot people
that
> > just want to drive, not worry about how it works. Why learn about
something
> > that, quite simply, doesn't interest you?
> >
>
> IMO, those who own a car should know the basics. how to change oil, how
> to check oil, how to change air filter, how to change plugs, how to
> check tire pressure and top off if needed, and how to change a tire.
>
> To some, these may seem a bit much, to others, these may seem like not
> enough.
> Now, for computers, same goes. if you are going to have a network, you
> better god damn well at least know how to set up the basics like an IP
> address/subnet. and if you are setting up DHCP, know _how_ to set up
> DHCP.
> But that is just my opinion.
> --
> ~Travis

I think that you overestimate the average user.
The basics to most people aren't DHCP and IPaddress/subnet.
These are the basics:
Basic #1: Check oil = 'Where's the 'ON' button?"
Basic #2: Change tyre= "How to install a new printer by following
instructions."
Basic #3: Change oil and plugs = "Install BBC digital camera driver from a
disk" (Yes, I know that its USB, but I have heard it referred to as BBC.)
Complicated #1:Anything with 'IP Address' in it = "Strip and recondition
carburettor."
Complicated #2: Anything with initials DHCP in it = "Recondition and rebore
engine and transmission."
--
Westie

[John Harlow]

> Now, for computers, same goes. if you are going to have a network, you
> better god damn well at least know how to set up the basics like an IP
> address/subnet. and if you are setting up DHCP, know _how_ to set up
> DHCP.

You don't have to know how to set all that up. Just enable connection
sharing and be done with it. It takes about 1 minute to do, and requires no
propeller head stuff.